+r@somis.org (• R.L. Measures) wrote:

In article <fkbea0p4me2j1brcgofjtrclnej35qq4oi@4ax.com>,
102334.12@compuserve.com wrote:

+r@somis.org (• R.L. Measures) wrote:

In article <tgg9a09q4s5vdo5c89mm001ic1v8gipgms@4ax.com>,
102334.12@compuserve.com wrote:

+r@somis.org (• R.L. Measures) wrote:

In article <9bm6a05ojka41dv5367gchio6q4gmcsske@4ax.com>,
102334.12@compuserve.com wrote:

+r@somis.org (• R.L. Measures) wrote:

In article <lnj3a09cfp9906nla4q13tui8e86985e17@4ax.com>,
102334.12@compuserve.com wrote:

+r@somis.org (• R.L. Measures) wrote:

In article <c4e1a05lpc9ebp24is88j57roap4emksnl@4ax.com>,
102334.12@compuserve.com wrote:

• Didn't Kerry fight in Vietnam?

That is very much the question, isn't it? In those four months of
combat duty (probably more like two and a half when he was in the
'danger zone'), there doesn't seem much doubt about him pulling the
man from the water, who is still grateful to Kerry, by the way. But
some of the other incidents, which provided the necessary
three-hearts-and-out (which was not an automatic policy, at the time,
as the Globe reported) are questioned by some, and seem a bit
contradictory in the formal reports. 'Hack', remember, he who was
instrumental in making the Abu Graib photos public, much to his
lasting shame I might think, once remarked that they were as much as
giving out medals over there like it was candy, and sometimes for
nothing at all to certain of the officers. Kerry might have been that
sort. There is the matter of whether he tossed ribbons or medals. I
think Charlie Gibson who was present at that fence, on that day,
remembered medals, and challenged Kerry face to face on tv, and
Oliphant and other overt Kerry supporters just remembered ribbons -
which I guess are okay to throw away? Kerry doesn't now much like his
term, atrocity. But I'm sure he loved it, then - which is precisely
the whole point. That goes to the other matter, of his fitness for
duty at the time, and then immediately upon his return. Other men who
did serve in Vietnam, even on the same PCF boat, the same actual boat,
consider Kerry unfit to command. Some thought that of him, at the
time, in the late 60s and early 70s. These were men who fought in
Vietnam. I'm sure they wonder why he never reported the vote to
assassinate members of the United States Senate, when maybe someone
should have been alerted in that era of homegrown militants (which is
what they called terrorists, then).

• Interesting. Thanks. My brother had no opinion about the war in
Vietnam until he served on a Navy destroyer off the coast of Vietnam.
When he came back he said we should not have been there in the first
place.

Well, anyone can have the opinion the war was ill-advised. Vets
typically do. They are used as fodder, and abused. That was the
continuing complaint of the much-decorated Nissei in WWII. Fodder,
they thought, entire units abused by command, fatally.

But Kerry gives the impression of being a malcontent even on the PCF
boat.

The three-and-out policy was not automatic. It may have been
that command simply wanted to be rid of this Kerry guy. And when he
returned, he not only referred to "atrocities", which he claimed to
have committed himself, presumeably in pursuance of his medals which
he threw over the fence, and which literally got him out of combat,
but is said to have sat in a meeting where militants of the VVAW voted
on whether to assassinate sitting members of the United States Senate.
And there's no record that this 'vet' reported a vote by such people
to literally go out and assassinate US officials. Most of those
opposing Kerry as unfit for CIC are those who not only served with
him, but were his immediate superiors or those in the chain of
command, at the time - in Vietnam. Remember, the 'war record' was the
one thing that supposedly got Kerry the nomination, and was
responsible for the almost humorously all-out assault on Dean,
particularly by the 'major' media or Dem press, and who was the
frontrunner prior to that, and before his I-have-a-scream speech which
was prominently advertized on Drudge.

Ironically, General Hideki Tojo - whom the United States hanged
after WW-II - had given us sage advice about French Indochina. During the
war in Vietnam, a pretty good clue that something wasn't on the up and up
was when the U. S. administration refused to allow a democratic election
in South Vietnam. If JFK had lived, the history of our involvement in
Vietnam might have been way different.

He would have sent in many more troops. But the US won the war on the
ground. That's what you forget. The TET offensive was a blow in that
people were surprized there even was a foe. That was the psychological
victory, that there was even still fighting. The US forces, on the
ground, won the battle - but