| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"BRAINIAC" |
| Date: |
30 Sep 2007 03:16:21 AM |
| Object: |
A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
30 Sep 2007 08:41:52 AM |
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On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nournme@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually believe
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend church,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destruction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
.
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| User: "BRAINIAC" |
|
| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
01 Oct 2007 04:14:29 AM |
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On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually believe
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend church,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destruction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
Checker, do you realise that if a person makes a statement that they
are unable to present supporting evidence for, that the statement in
question becomes - at best - simply an opinion, and - at worst - a
deliberate lie?
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
01 Oct 2007 09:45:39 AM |
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On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:14:29 -0700, BRAINIAC <nournme@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually believe
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend church,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destruction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
Checker, do you realise that if a person makes a statement that they
are unable to present supporting evidence for, that the statement in
question becomes - at best - simply an opinion, and - at worst - a
deliberate lie?
Show us the evidence that this is so. Provide us with the evidence.
How do you know? By what authority do you speak? For WHOM do you
speak?
Or is that just your own biased opinon?
Checker
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| User: "Harold Saxon" |
|
| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
01 Oct 2007 04:23:47 AM |
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On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually believe
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend church,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destruction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
So tell me, did you make that statement about non-Christians
outnumbering Christians by hundreds or thousands to one knowing that
you couldn't prove it or possibly knowing it to be a falsehood?
Either way that makes your statement a lie, doesn't it? And bearing
false witness is against the teachings of the scriptures, as well as
against the teachings of Jesus. So despite your inclusion of yourself
amongst those whom you define as Christians, you have sinned against
God and should beg his forgiveness for this transgression.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
01 Oct 2007 09:51:12 AM |
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On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:23:47 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.harold@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually believe
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend church,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destruction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
So tell me, did you make that statement about non-Christians
outnumbering Christians by hundreds or thousands to one knowing that
you couldn't prove it or possibly knowing it to be a falsehood?
I made it as a simple statement knowing that I could not "prove" it,
and knowing that it could also not be "disproven," but that it is
true.
No, it is not a falsehood. Can you prove it is a falsehood, that
everyone who checks the little box on the census form marked
"Christian" actually FITS the Biblical description of what a Christian
is? SHOW US YOUR EVIDENCE if you think you can.
Either way that makes your statement a lie, doesn't it?
No, making a statement that cannot be proved or disproved is not
lying.
I saw a carton of eggs this morning that held 9 eggs.
I cannot prove that (the carton is now gone, the eggs eaten), and you
cannot disprove it. That does not mean that I lied. It simply means
it cannot be proven or disproven.
My statement was the same type of statement.
And bearing
false witness is against the teachings of the scriptures, as well as
against the teachings of Jesus. So despite your inclusion of yourself
amongst those whom you define as Christians, you have sinned against
God and should beg his forgiveness for this transgression.
God is the one who judges me; your "judgement" is as fallacious as
your reasoning.
And according to the Scriptural definition, I have not born false
witness.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
.
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| User: "Harold Saxon" |
|
| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
01 Oct 2007 11:43:18 AM |
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On 1 Oct, 15:51, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:23:47 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually believe
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend church,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destruction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
So tell me, did you make that statement about non-Christians
outnumbering Christians by hundreds or thousands to one knowing that
you couldn't prove it or possibly knowing it to be a falsehood?
I made it as a simple statement knowing that I could not "prove" it,
and knowing that it could also not be "disproven," but that it is
true.
Knowing you cannot prove a statement makes it an opinion, it doesn't
make it true.
And no matter how many times you claim that non-Christians outnumber
Christians by hundreds or thousands to one doesn't make it the truth
either.
And if a statement isn't true, then that makes it a lie, plain and
simple.
No, it is not a falsehood. Can you prove it is a falsehood, that
everyone who checks the little box on the census form marked
"Christian" actually FITS the Biblical description of what a Christian
is? SHOW US YOUR EVIDENCE if you think you can.
How about you show us where in the Bible there is a description of
what a Christian is, that is placed alongside the actual word.
The word Christian is only mentioned twice in Acts and once in 1
Peter, and there is no description of what a Christian is accompanying
those uses of the word.
Either way that makes your statement a lie, doesn't it?
No, making a statement that cannot be proved or disproved is not
lying.
And making a statement doesn't make it the truth, which you should
realise.
I saw a carton of eggs this morning that held 9 eggs.
I cannot prove that (the carton is now gone, the eggs eaten), and you
cannot disprove it. That does not mean that I lied. It simply means
it cannot be proven or disproven.
My statement was the same type of statement.
No it wasn't, your statement that non-Christains outnumber Christains
by hundreds or thousands to one doesnt even come anywhere near being
the same as saying that you saw a carton of eggs with nine eggs in it.
Because, no doubt there are people who can verify that you saw the
said carton, but so far in this thread and in the other where you
originally made your claim, not one person came forward to verify your
statement.
And bearing
false witness is against the teachings of the scriptures, as well as
against the teachings of Jesus. So despite your inclusion of yourself
amongst those whom you define as Christians, you have sinned against
God and should beg his forgiveness for this transgression.
God is the one who judges me; your "judgement" is as fallacious as
your reasoning.
So no man can judge you? Yet you persist in judging others by
declaring them to be non-Christians when you have no evidence to
support your statement.
And according to the Scriptural definition, I have not born false
witness.
Proverbs 14:5 is all I have to say to your final lie in this post of
yours, and there are plenty more scriptural references that prove you
have born false witness.
I do hope that God, when you meet him will forgive all your sins.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
02 Oct 2007 07:23:43 AM |
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On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 09:43:18 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.harold@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 1 Oct, 15:51, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:23:47 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually believe
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend church,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destruction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
So tell me, did you make that statement about non-Christians
outnumbering Christians by hundreds or thousands to one knowing that
you couldn't prove it or possibly knowing it to be a falsehood?
I made it as a simple statement knowing that I could not "prove" it,
and knowing that it could also not be "disproven," but that it is
true.
Knowing you cannot prove a statement makes it an opinion, it doesn't
make it true.
And no matter how many times you claim that non-Christians outnumber
Christians by hundreds or thousands to one doesn't make it the truth
either.
And if a statement isn't true, then that makes it a lie, plain and
simple.
You have just made a statement you cannot prove. Does that make YOUR
statement false? No, making a statement you cannot prove does NOT
make it false.
I saw a wild finch in the woods yesterday. I cannot prove it. Does
that mean I did not see a wild finch in the woods yesterday?
Your claim is fallacious. Your claim is false. Does that make YOU a
liar, a teller of lies and falsehoods?
You need to THINK before you make such silly statements.
No, it is not a falsehood. Can you prove it is a falsehood, that
everyone who checks the little box on the census form marked
"Christian" actually FITS the Biblical description of what a Christian
is? SHOW US YOUR EVIDENCE if you think you can.
How about you show us where in the Bible there is a description of
what a Christian is, that is placed alongside the actual word.
Since the Bible doesn't do that, why would I try? How about YOU
showing us in the Bible where the word has any OTHER MEANING than its
literal definition, "a follower of Christ?"
The word Christian is only mentioned twice in Acts and once in 1
Peter, and there is no description of what a Christian is accompanying
those uses of the word.
It is obvious that you do not know what a Christian IS. . .why do you
ASSUME that census takers know any more than you do?
NT:5546
Christianos (khris-tee-an-os'); from NT:5547; a Christian, i.e.
follower of Christ:
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with
Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft,
Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Either way that makes your statement a lie, doesn't it?
No, making a statement that cannot be proved or disproved is not
lying.
And making a statement doesn't make it the truth, which you should
realise.
And making a statement doesn't make it false either, which YOU should
realize.
I saw a carton of eggs this morning that held 9 eggs.
I cannot prove that (the carton is now gone, the eggs eaten), and you
cannot disprove it. That does not mean that I lied. It simply means
it cannot be proven or disproven.
My statement was the same type of statement.
No it wasn't, your statement that non-Christains outnumber Christains
by hundreds or thousands to one doesnt even come anywhere near being
the same as saying that you saw a carton of eggs with nine eggs in it.
Nonsense. It was a statement that cannot be proven or disproven, just
as my statement about the eggs is.
Because, no doubt there are people who can verify that you saw the
said carton, but so far in this thread and in the other where you
originally made your claim, not one person came forward to verify your
statement.
You are again ASSUMING that someone saw me look in the fridge. Nobody
did; your ASSUMPTION is wrong. You cannot support your ASSUMPTION
with proof, does that make your assumption become a lie?
And bearing
false witness is against the teachings of the scriptures, as well as
against the teachings of Jesus. So despite your inclusion of yourself
amongst those whom you define as Christians, you have sinned against
God and should beg his forgiveness for this transgression.
God is the one who judges me; your "judgement" is as fallacious as
your reasoning.
So no man can judge you? Yet you persist in judging others by
declaring them to be non-Christians when you have no evidence to
support your statement.
SPECIFICALLY WHO (NAME ONE) have I said is a non-Christian.
More ASSUMPTIONS on your part, huh?
And according to the Scriptural definition, I have not born false
witness.
Proverbs 14:5 is all I have to say to your final lie in this post of
yours, and there are plenty more scriptural references that prove you
have born false witness.
Prov 14:5
5 A faithful witness does not lie,
But a false witness will utter lies.
NKJV
Since I have uttered no lie, I am glad you consider me to be a
faithful witness.
I do hope that God, when you meet him will forgive all your sins.
He already has! Jesus already paid the price for ALL of my sins.
I am sorry you apparently don't know Him. I pray you will.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
.
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| User: "BAM" |
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| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
02 Oct 2007 09:12:34 PM |
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<checker@flapper.com> wrote
I saw a wild finch in the woods yesterday. I cannot prove it. Does
that mean I did not see a wild finch in the woods yesterday?
No! A *wild* one? How wild was it?
BAM
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| User: "Harold Saxon" |
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| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
04 Oct 2007 05:45:45 AM |
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On 3 Oct, 03:12, "BAM" <mcca5...@blahblahbellsouth.net> wrote:
<chec...@flapper.com> wrote
I saw a wild finch in the woods yesterday. I cannot prove it. Does
that mean I did not see a wild finch in the woods yesterday?
No! A *wild* one? How wild was it?
BAM
Extremely, because it knew that "checker" couldn't possibly have seen
it in the woods, as it was in the park.
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| User: "Harold Saxon" |
|
| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
04 Oct 2007 05:44:57 AM |
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On 2 Oct, 13:23, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 09:43:18 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 1 Oct, 15:51, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:23:47 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those =
of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every o=
ne
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply =
was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not th=
ose
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually belie=
ve
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian=
,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend chur=
ch,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak w=
ith
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am p=
ro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destructi=
on
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
So tell me, did you make that statement about non-Christians
outnumbering Christians by hundreds or thousands to one knowing that
you couldn't prove it or possibly knowing it to be a falsehood?
I made it as a simple statement knowing that I could not "prove" it,
and knowing that it could also not be "disproven," but that it is
true.
Knowing you cannot prove a statement makes it an opinion, it doesn't
make it true.
And no matter how many times you claim that non-Christians outnumber
Christians by hundreds or thousands to one doesn't make it the truth
either.
And if a statement isn't true, then that makes it a lie, plain and
simple.
You have just made a statement you cannot prove. Does that make YOUR
statement false? No, making a statement you cannot prove does NOT
make it false.
Your statement that non-Christians outnumber Christians by hundreds or
thousands to one is false.
Can you present evidence that supports your statement? No you cannot,
you even admit you cannot prove it.
Is there evidence that opposes your statement? Yes there is, but you
dismiss that evidence as meaningless.
Therefore your statement is false.
I saw a wild finch in the woods yesterday. I cannot prove it. Does
that mean I did not see a wild finch in the woods yesterday?
This statement isn't in the same category as your claim that non-
Christians outnumber Christians by hundreds or thousands to one.
And therefore is not relevant to the issue of whether the statement we
are discussing is true or not.
Your claim is fallacious. Your claim is false. Does that make YOU a
liar, a teller of lies and falsehoods?
I can present evidence that opposes your claim regarding the ratio of
non-Christians to Christians, but you cannot defend that claim, you
even admit it yourself.
You need to THINK before you make such silly statements.
Perhaps you are the one that needs to think, and to gather supporting
evidence for your spurious claims.
No, it is not a falsehood. Can you prove it is a falsehood, that
everyone who checks the little box on the census form marked
"Christian" actually FITS the Biblical description of what a Christian
is? SHOW US YOUR EVIDENCE if you think you can.
How about you show us where in the Bible there is a description of
what a Christian is, that is placed alongside the actual word.
Since the Bible doesn't do that, why would I try? How about YOU
showing us in the Bible where the word has any OTHER MEANING than its
literal definition, "a follower of Christ?"
And how about you proving that all these people who identify
themselves as Christians on a census form are not Christians.
You raised the claim in the first place, so it is down to you to prove
the truth of your claim.
The word Christian is only mentioned twice in Acts and once in 1
Peter, and there is no description of what a Christian is accompanying
those uses of the word.
It is obvious that you do not know what a Christian IS. . .why do you
ASSUME that census takers know any more than you do?
NT:5546
Christianos (khris-tee-an-os'); from NT:5547; a Christian, i.e.
follower of Christ:
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with
Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright =A9 1994, 2003 Biblesoft,
Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Either way that makes your statement a lie, doesn't it?
No, making a statement that cannot be proved or disproved is not
lying. =20
And making a statement doesn't make it the truth, which you should
realise.
And making a statement doesn't make it false either, which YOU should
realize.
I know what the word Christian means as well as you do, but what I am
disputing here is your claim that the people who identify themselves
on the census forms as Christian are not.
2=2E1 billion people in this world identify themselves as Christians,
but you are as good as denying them the right to do so. And you cannot
provide any evidence that supports your claim that these people are
not Christians.
I saw a carton of eggs this morning that held 9 eggs.
I cannot prove that (the carton is now gone, the eggs eaten), and you
cannot disprove it. That does not mean that I lied. It simply means
it cannot be proven or disproven.
My statement was the same type of statement.
No it wasn't, your statement that non-Christains outnumber Christains
by hundreds or thousands to one doesnt even come anywhere near being
the same as saying that you saw a carton of eggs with nine eggs in it.
Nonsense. It was a statement that cannot be proven or disproven, just
as my statement about the eggs is.
The evidence available proves that your claim regarding the ratio of
Christians to non-Christians is false.
Because, no doubt there are people who can verify that you saw the
said carton, but so far in this thread and in the other where you
originally made your claim, not one person came forward to verify your
statement.
You are again ASSUMING that someone saw me look in the fridge. Nobody
did; your ASSUMPTION is wrong. You cannot support your ASSUMPTION
with proof, does that make your assumption become a lie?
The onus is on you to prove that your statement regarding the ratio of
non-Christians to Christians is true as you insist that it is.
All these other statements about eggs and finches are not relevant to
the point in debate. Nor are they in the same category as your
statement about Christians and non-Christians.
And bearing
false witness is against the teachings of the scriptures, as well as
against the teachings of Jesus. So despite your inclusion of yourself
amongst those whom you define as Christians, you have sinned against
God and should beg his forgiveness for this transgression.
God is the one who judges me; your "judgement" is as fallacious as
your reasoning.
So no man can judge you? Yet you persist in judging others by
declaring them to be non-Christians when you have no evidence to
support your statement.
SPECIFICALLY WHO (NAME ONE) have I said is a non-Christian.
More ASSUMPTIONS on your part, huh?
How about the majority of people who identify themselves as Christian
on the census forms they fill in?
You claimed that non-Christians outnumber Christians by hundreds or
thousands to one.
You claimed that checking the box doesn't make you a Christian.
Therefore you have judged the majority as being non-Christian without
any evidence to support your position.
Your claim is a lie, in fact to be more precise it is a lie by
exaggeration.
No one has denied that non-Christians outnumber Christians.
But the evidence suggests the ratio is only 2 to 1.
And according to the Scriptural definition, I have not born false
witness.
Proverbs 14:5 is all I have to say to your final lie in this post of
yours, and there are plenty more scriptural references that prove you
have born false witness.
Prov 14:5
5 A faithful witness does not lie,
But a false witness will utter lies.
NKJV
Since I have uttered no lie, I am glad you consider me to be a
faithful witness.
You lied when you said that non-Christians outnumber Christians by
hundreds or thousands to one.
All evidence available proves your claim to be false.
And now you compound the lie with denial and pride.
For I do not consider you a faithful witness.
I do hope that God, when you meet him will forgive all your sins.
He already has! Jesus already paid the price for ALL of my sins.
All of your sins? Even the ones that you deny? Even the ones you
choose not to repent of? I don't think so.
I am sorry you apparently don't know Him. I pray you will.
Do you really know Him? That is doubtful, and I am sure many would
question your beliefs from how you behave in these newsgroups.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
04 Oct 2007 08:58:06 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:44:57 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.harold@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 2 Oct, 13:23, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 09:43:18 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 1 Oct, 15:51, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:23:47 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually believe
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend church,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destruction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
So tell me, did you make that statement about non-Christians
outnumbering Christians by hundreds or thousands to one knowing that
you couldn't prove it or possibly knowing it to be a falsehood?
I made it as a simple statement knowing that I could not "prove" it,
and knowing that it could also not be "disproven," but that it is
true.
Knowing you cannot prove a statement makes it an opinion, it doesn't
make it true.
And no matter how many times you claim that non-Christians outnumber
Christians by hundreds or thousands to one doesn't make it the truth
either.
And if a statement isn't true, then that makes it a lie, plain and
simple.
You have just made a statement you cannot prove. Does that make YOUR
statement false? No, making a statement you cannot prove does NOT
make it false.
Your statement that non-Christians outnumber Christians by hundreds or
thousands to one is false.
You are welcome to your opinion. I have shown the fallacy of using
statistics since the statisticians must first determine who IS and who
IS NOT a Christian, and that merely checking a box on a form does not
make you a Christian.
Can you present evidence that supports your statement? No you cannot,
you even admit you cannot prove it.
Can you present evidence that you exist? No, you cannot. You might
just be the figment of someone's imagination. That might be my
position if I were an existentialist.
You just want to whine and complain, that is all.
Is there evidence that opposes your statement? Yes there is, but you
dismiss that evidence as meaningless.
Therefore your statement is false.
No, it is an opinion that is equal to YOUR opinion that my statement
is false. I do not accept the so-called "evidence" because it IS
meaningless. No statistician can adequately DEFINE who is a Christian
and who is not, and therefore cannot collect adequate statistics to
"prove" anything.
I saw a wild finch in the woods yesterday. I cannot prove it. Does
that mean I did not see a wild finch in the woods yesterday?
This statement isn't in the same category as your claim that non-
Christians outnumber Christians by hundreds or thousands to one.
It certainly is. It is a statement of FACT that cannot be backed by
evidence, yet is still true, just as my statement regarding the ratio
of Christians to non-Christians is.
And therefore is not relevant to the issue of whether the statement we
are discussing is true or not.
Your claim is fallacious. Your claim is false. Does that make YOU a
liar, a teller of lies and falsehoods?
I can present evidence that opposes your claim regarding the ratio of
non-Christians to Christians, but you cannot defend that claim, you
even admit it yourself.
Not real evidence. Just statistics. Statistics are sometimes
correct, sometimes not, and how you "read" them often determines their
meaning.
I've taken the classes and even taken a few statistics myself. You
have NO real evidence to support you, despite your fallacious claims.
You need to THINK before you make such silly statements.
Perhaps you are the one that needs to think, and to gather supporting
evidence for your spurious claims.
I have as much right to my opinion as you have to yours. Don't whine.
No, it is not a falsehood. Can you prove it is a falsehood, that
everyone who checks the little box on the census form marked
"Christian" actually FITS the Biblical description of what a Christian
is? SHOW US YOUR EVIDENCE if you think you can.
How about you show us where in the Bible there is a description of
what a Christian is, that is placed alongside the actual word.
Since the Bible doesn't do that, why would I try? How about YOU
showing us in the Bible where the word has any OTHER MEANING than its
literal definition, "a follower of Christ?"
And how about you proving that all these people who identify
themselves as Christians on a census form are not Christians.
You are claiming the forms as "proof." PROVE them. PROVE to us that
all those who "check the box" ARE Christians.
You raised the claim in the first place, so it is down to you to prove
the truth of your claim.
LOL! You have nothing better to do than whine. I have shown you why
the statistics are not valid evidence. That leaves you with nothing
but your own OPINION to support you.
The word Christian is only mentioned twice in Acts and once in 1
Peter, and there is no description of what a Christian is accompanying
those uses of the word.
It is obvious that you do not know what a Christian IS. . .why do you
ASSUME that census takers know any more than you do?
NT:5546
Christianos (khris-tee-an-os'); from NT:5547; a Christian, i.e.
follower of Christ:
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with
Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft,
Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Either way that makes your statement a lie, doesn't it?
No, making a statement that cannot be proved or disproved is not
lying.
And making a statement doesn't make it the truth, which you should
realise.
And making a statement doesn't make it false either, which YOU should
realize.
I know what the word Christian means as well as you do, but what I am
disputing here is your claim that the people who identify themselves
on the census forms as Christian are not.
Hmm, so now you admit that I DO know the meaning of the word, and that
I AM correct in my usage of that word. Good!
2.1 billion people in this world identify themselves as Christians,
but you are as good as denying them the right to do so. And you cannot
provide any evidence that supports your claim that these people are
not Christians.
You have not shown that 2.1 billion people in this world identify
themselves as Christians. When you show real evidence that this is
so, and show real evidence about how this compares to the numbers of
muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, then you might have something to talk
about. So far you have not explained how census takers or any other
organization can adequately KNOW who is really Christian and who is
not. All you have is "checked boxes" in SOME cases, NOTHING BUT
GUESSES in others.
I saw a carton of eggs this morning that held 9 eggs.
I cannot prove that (the carton is now gone, the eggs eaten), and you
cannot disprove it. That does not mean that I lied. It simply means
it cannot be proven or disproven.
My statement was the same type of statement.
No it wasn't, your statement that non-Christains outnumber Christains
by hundreds or thousands to one doesnt even come anywhere near being
the same as saying that you saw a carton of eggs with nine eggs in it.
Nonsense. It was a statement that cannot be proven or disproven, just
as my statement about the eggs is.
The evidence available proves that your claim regarding the ratio of
Christians to non-Christians is false.
Except that I have demonstrated that your so-called "evidence" is no
real evidence at all, and that all you have left is OPINION.
I <snipped> the rest. Not worth reading. All you are interested in
is whining and carping, and you have not presented any real evidence
to support your position at all. So you resort to name-calling and
lies.
You have lost the argument by dismissal.
Checker
.
|
|
|
| User: "UKLAD49" |
|
| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
05 Oct 2007 09:38:16 AM |
|
|
On 4 Oct, 14:58, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:44:57 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 2 Oct, 13:23, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 09:43:18 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 1 Oct, 15:51, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:23:47 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co=
..uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made =
some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers tho=
se of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to ever=
y one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the rep=
ly was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the follow=
ing
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean=
by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not=
those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually be=
lieve
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in =
the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim h=
ave
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove y=
our
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people t=
hat
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christ=
ian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend c=
hurch,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who spea=
k with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunit=
y to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I a=
m pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case =
for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destru=
ction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversati=
on.
So tell me, did you make that statement about non-Christians
outnumbering Christians by hundreds or thousands to one knowing th=
at
you couldn't prove it or possibly knowing it to be a falsehood?
I made it as a simple statement knowing that I could not "prove" it,
and knowing that it could also not be "disproven," but that it is
true.
Knowing you cannot prove a statement makes it an opinion, it doesn't
make it true.
And no matter how many times you claim that non-Christians outnumber
Christians by hundreds or thousands to one doesn't make it the truth
either.
And if a statement isn't true, then that makes it a lie, plain and
simple.
You have just made a statement you cannot prove. Does that make YOUR
statement false? No, making a statement you cannot prove does NOT
make it false.
Your statement that non-Christians outnumber Christians by hundreds or
thousands to one is false.
You are welcome to your opinion. I have shown the fallacy of using
statistics since the statisticians must first determine who IS and who
IS NOT a Christian, and that merely checking a box on a form does not
make you a Christian.
Can you present evidence that supports your statement? No you cannot,
you even admit you cannot prove it.
Can you present evidence that you exist? No, you cannot. You might
just be the figment of someone's imagination. That might be my
position if I were an existentialist.
You just want to whine and complain, that is all.
Is there evidence that opposes your statement? Yes there is, but you
dismiss that evidence as meaningless.
Therefore your statement is false.
No, it is an opinion that is equal to YOUR opinion that my statement
is false. I do not accept the so-called "evidence" because it IS
meaningless. No statistician can adequately DEFINE who is a Christian
and who is not, and therefore cannot collect adequate statistics to
"prove" anything.
I saw a wild finch in the woods yesterday. I cannot prove it. Does
that mean I did not see a wild finch in the woods yesterday?
This statement isn't in the same category as your claim that non-
Christians outnumber Christians by hundreds or thousands to one.
It certainly is. It is a statement of FACT that cannot be backed by
evidence, yet is still true, just as my statement regarding the ratio
of Christians to non-Christians is. =20
And therefore is not relevant to the issue of whether the statement we
are discussing is true or not.
Your claim is fallacious. Your claim is false. Does that make YOU a
liar, a teller of lies and falsehoods?
I can present evidence that opposes your claim regarding the ratio of
non-Christians to Christians, but you cannot defend that claim, you
even admit it yourself.
Not real evidence. Just statistics. Statistics are sometimes
correct, sometimes not, and how you "read" them often determines their
meaning.
I've taken the classes and even taken a few statistics myself. You
have NO real evidence to support you, despite your fallacious claims.
You need to THINK before you make such silly statements.
Perhaps you are the one that needs to think, and to gather supporting
evidence for your spurious claims.
I have as much right to my opinion as you have to yours. Don't whine.
No, it is not a falsehood. Can you prove it is a falsehood, that
everyone who checks the little box on the census form marked
"Christian" actually FITS the Biblical description of what a Christ=
ian
is? SHOW US YOUR EVIDENCE if you think you can.
How about you show us where in the Bible there is a description of
what a Christian is, that is placed alongside the actual word.
Since the Bible doesn't do that, why would I try? How about YOU
showing us in the Bible where the word has any OTHER MEANING than its
literal definition, "a follower of Christ?"
And how about you proving that all these people who identify
themselves as Christians on a census form are not Christians.
You are claiming the forms as "proof." PROVE them. PROVE to us that
all those who "check the box" ARE Christians.
You raised the claim in the first place, so it is down to you to prove
the truth of your claim.
LOL! You have nothing better to do than whine. I have shown you why
the statistics are not valid evidence. That leaves you with nothing
but your own OPINION to support you.
The word Christian is only mentioned twice in Acts and once in 1
Peter, and there is no description of what a Christian is accompanying
those uses of the word.
It is obvious that you do not know what a Christian IS. . .why do you
ASSUME that census takers know any more than you do?
NT:5546
Christianos (khris-tee-an-os'); from NT:5547; a Christian, i.e.
follower of Christ:
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with
Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright =A9 1994, 2003 Biblesoft,
Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Either way that makes your statement a lie, doesn't it?
No, making a statement that cannot be proved or disproved is not
lying. =20
And making a statement doesn't make it the truth, which you should
realise.
And making a statement doesn't make it false either, which YOU should
realize.
I know what the word Christian means as well as you do, but what I am
disputing here is your claim that the people who identify themselves
on the census forms as Christian are not.
Hmm, so now you admit that I DO know the meaning of the word, and that
I AM correct in my usage of that word. Good!
2.1 billion people in this world identify themselves as Christians,
but you are as good as denying them the right to do so. And you cannot
provide any evidence that supports your claim that these people are
not Christians.
You have not shown that 2.1 billion people in this world identify
themselves as Christians. When you show real evidence that this is
so, and show real evidence about how this compares to the numbers of
muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, then you might have something to talk
about. So far you have not explained how census takers or any other
organization can adequately KNOW who is really Christian and who is
not. All you have is "checked boxes" in SOME cases, NOTHING BUT
GUESSES in others.
I saw a carton of eggs this morning that held 9 eggs.
I cannot prove that (the carton is now gone, the eggs eaten), and y=
ou
cannot disprove it. That does not mean that I lied. It simply mea=
ns
it cannot be proven or disproven.
My statement was the same type of statement.
No it wasn't, your statement that non-Christains outnumber Christains
by hundreds or thousands to one doesnt even come anywhere near being
the same as saying that you saw a carton of eggs with nine eggs in it.
Nonsense. It was a statement that cannot be proven or disproven, just
as my statement about the eggs is.
The evidence available proves that your claim regarding the ratio of
Christians to non-Christians is false.
Except that I have demonstrated that your so-called "evidence" is no
real evidence at all, and that all you have left is OPINION.
I <snipped> the rest. Not worth reading. All you are interested in
is whining and carping, and you have not presented any real evidence
to support your position at all. So you resort to name-calling and
lies. =20
You have lost the argument by dismissal.
Checker
Where is the name calling that you accuse Harold Saxon of?
Where are the lies you accuse Harold Saxon of?
I see no name calling or lies on his part.
But I do see your lies.
Your lie about the ratio of non-Christians to Christians.
Your lie about the meaninglessness of statistics.
Your lie about others claiming that checking the box makes you a
Christian.
Your lie about Harold Saxon calling you names.
Your lie about Harold Saxon telling lies.
Your lie about it being God who decides if a person is a Christian or
not.
Your lie about Jesus having paid for ALL your sins. (that emphasis is
yours by the way).
Your lie about being a faithful witness.
And I am sure if I was to search for other threads I would find many
more lies.
So many lies, it makes me wonder if you are a real Christian.
Go and read 1 John 1:8-10 and contemplate your sinfulness.
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
04 Oct 2007 11:13:47 AM |
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On Oct 4, 9:58 am, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:44:57 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[snip most of discussion to deal with relevant points. The snipped
portions are both above and below the following paragraphs.]
2.1 billion people in this world identify themselves as Christians,
but you are as good as denying them the right to do so. And you cannot
provide any evidence that supports your claim that these people are
not Christians.
You have not shown that 2.1 billion people in this world identify
themselves as Christians. When you show real evidence that this is
so, and show real evidence about how this compares to the numbers of
muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, then you might have something to talk
about. So far you have not explained how census takers or any other
organization can adequately KNOW who is really Christian and who is
not. All you have is "checked boxes" in SOME cases, NOTHING BUT
GUESSES in others.
More likely, he is referencing reputable sources that you refuse to
acknowledge.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/xx.html#People
From the CIA Factbook, link is above:
World Population: 6,602,224,175 (July 2007 est.)
Significant World Religions:
Christians 33.03% (of which Roman Catholics 17.33%, Protestants 5.8%,
Orthodox 3.42%, Anglicans 1.23%), Muslims 20.12%, Hindus 13.34%,
Buddhists 5.89%, Sikhs 0.39%, Jews 0.23%, other religions 12.61%, non-
religious 12.03%, atheists 2.36% (2004 est.)
Est. number of Christians, all denominations: 2,180,714,645
Almost 2.2 Billion people in the world identify themselves as
Christian according to a reputable and unbiased source.
Other religions that you mentioned:
Muslim: 1,328,367,504
Buhddist: 388,871,004
Hindu: 880,736,704
The "guesses" by people that do this for a living are usually very
accurate. They know how to analyze data about the country, its
people, its government, and how to do accurate sampling to reduce the
amount of error. When they are unbiased as to what the results
indicate, or that many things depend on the results being accurate and
the statisticians know this, you can usually trust that the results
are accurate.
YOU are the one that keeps whining that people do not accept your
unfounded opinions just because you give them. YOU have made a claim
that Christians are outnumbered hundreds or thousands to one
worldwide. Therefore, YOU must support your assertions given that the
evidence says otherwise.
Mark Sebree
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| User: "UKLAD49" |
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| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
05 Oct 2007 12:36:09 AM |
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On 4 Oct, 17:13, Mark Sebree <seb...@infionline.net> wrote:
On Oct 4, 9:58 am, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:44:57 -0700, Harold Saxon
<saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[snip most of discussion to deal with relevant points. The snipped
portions are both above and below the following paragraphs.]
2.1 billion people in this world identify themselves as Christians,
but you are as good as denying them the right to do so. And you cannot
provide any evidence that supports your claim that these people are
not Christians.
You have not shown that 2.1 billion people in this world identify
themselves as Christians. When you show real evidence that this is
so, and show real evidence about how this compares to the numbers of
muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc, then you might have something to talk
about. So far you have not explained how census takers or any other
organization can adequately KNOW who is really Christian and who is
not. All you have is "checked boxes" in SOME cases, NOTHING BUT
GUESSES in others.
More likely, he is referencing reputable sources that you refuse to
acknowledge.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/xx.h...
From the CIA Factbook, link is above:
World Population: 6,602,224,175 (July 2007 est.)
Significant World Religions:
Christians 33.03% (of which Roman Catholics 17.33%, Protestants 5.8%,
Orthodox 3.42%, Anglicans 1.23%), Muslims 20.12%, Hindus 13.34%,
Buddhists 5.89%, Sikhs 0.39%, Jews 0.23%, other religions 12.61%, non-
religious 12.03%, atheists 2.36% (2004 est.)
Est. number of Christians, all denominations: 2,180,714,645
Almost 2.2 Billion people in the world identify themselves as
Christian according to a reputable and unbiased source.
Other religions that you mentioned:
Muslim: 1,328,367,504
Buhddist: 388,871,004
Hindu: 880,736,704
The "guesses" by people that do this for a living are usually very
accurate. They know how to analyze data about the country, its
people, its government, and how to do accurate sampling to reduce the
amount of error. When they are unbiased as to what the results
indicate, or that many things depend on the results being accurate and
the statisticians know this, you can usually trust that the results
are accurate.
YOU are the one that keeps whining that people do not accept your
unfounded opinions just because you give them. YOU have made a claim
that Christians are outnumbered hundreds or thousands to one
worldwide. Therefore, YOU must support your assertions given that the
evidence says otherwise.
Mark Sebree
He has admitted previously that he cannot prove this claim but still
insists on its truth.
He dismisses statistical evidence that disproves his claim as
meaningless.
He claims checking the box doesn't make you a christian.
He also attempted to discredit statistical analysis further by posting
three statements that according to him prove "statistically" no one
should drink water.
But those statements contained no relevant numercial information to
support this conclusion.
And so far I have yet to see either "checker" or anyone else present
anything in the way of evidence or reasoned arguments that proves his
position as the truth.
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| User: "UKLAD49" |
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| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
01 Oct 2007 04:11:56 AM |
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On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually believe
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend church,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destruction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
Why do you prefer your own opinion, baseless though it is, over
statistical reports generated from years of information gathering?
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
01 Oct 2007 09:44:02 AM |
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On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:11:56 -0700, UKLAD49 <uklad0711@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually believe
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend church,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destruction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
Why do you prefer your own opinion, baseless though it is, over
statistical reports generated from years of information gathering?
Statistics can be made to say all sorts of things that are not true.
There is the problem with hydrogen-two-oxygen.
EVERYONE who ingests it dies, 100% of the time, statistically.
EVERYONE who gets cancer has ingested it.
EVERYONE who gets pregnant has ingested it.
So "statistically," you should not drink water.
In other words, statistics can be misused easily. Reality is what
reality is however, and statistics don't change reality.
Putting three boxes in a census form that say "Christian," "Muslim"
and "other" does NOT mean that most people who check the "Christian"
box truly ARE Christian. The term "Christian" is so mis-used and
misunderstood in the secular world that the box is meaningless IN
REALITY.
in the Name of Jesus,
Checker
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| User: "UKLAD49" |
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| Title: Re: A Request To Checker To Support His Claims |
04 Oct 2007 08:41:31 AM |
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On 1 Oct, 15:44, wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:11:56 -0700, UKLAD49 <uklad0...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
On 30 Sep, 14:41, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 01:16:21 -0700, BRAINIAC <nour...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
Some time ago in another thread a poster called "checker" made some
claims, which I present word for word below:
"But the number of people who are NOT Christians outnumbers those of
us who are most likely by hundreds or thousands of them to every one
of us ... "
When "checker" was asked what proof he/she had of this, the reply was:
"Simple observation shows that. Look around you with your eyes
open."
Given these statements could "checker" please answer the following
questions.
Can you explain what you or the denomination you belong to mean by
Christian?
People who in reality follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Not those
who "check the box" in a census form, but people who actually believe
what He taught, and who live our lives accordingly.
YOUR claim that "checking the box" on a census form makes you a
Christian is fallacious. In reality it means nothing at all.
Can you give an exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians in the
context of your definition?
No, and neither can you OR the census takers you want to claim have
decided such ratios.
Can you give examples of the "simple observations" that prove your
contentions as stated?
All you have to do is look around you. How many of the people that
YOU know are "religious," even consider themselves to be "Christian,"
but do not know what the Bible actually teaches, do not attend church,
do not hang around with people who do those things, and who speak with
disdain about "religion?"
You made the claims "checker" and now I give you the opportunity to
back them up.
You are doing nothing but playing games.
This whole discussion arose because you are pro-abortion and I am pro
life, and you don't like that. You cannot make a rational case for
the preborn baby to be anything OTHER than a baby, or for destruction
of that baby to be anything less than murder.
So this "show us exact ratio of non-Christians to Christians" is
nothing more than a rabbit trail you would like to use to try to
divert our attention from the original context of the conversation.
Why do you prefer your own opinion, baseless though it is, over
statistical reports generated from years of information gathering?
Statistics can be made to say all sorts of things that are not true.
There is the problem with hydrogen-two-oxygen.
EVERYONE who ingests it dies, 100% of the time, statistically.
EVERYONE who gets cancer has ingested it.
EVERYONE who gets pregnant has ingested it.
So "statistically," | | | | |
