Science > Abortion > "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks"
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Steenkin Man" |
| Date: |
05 Jul 2004 05:33:50 PM |
| Object: |
"Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" |
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks and some doctors believe that distress can be felt as early
as 13 weeks. Others question whether the foetus can feel pain before
26 weeks. Under present law, abortion can be carried out only until
the 24th week of pregnancy unless there are exceptional circumstances,
such as a threat to the life of the mother. http://www.telegraph.co.uk
--
num tibi mentireris?
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
05 Jul 2004 05:40:58 PM |
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Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
05 Jul 2004 10:35:36 PM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
==============================
Crying? They have the zygotes/fetuses walking in the womb, laughing,
smiling and feeling "joy." What next? Dancing sperm and eggs?
FP..........
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| User: "geopelia" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
06 Jul 2004 07:38:31 AM |
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"Flower Power" <IndependantWomen@NOSlave.net> wrote in message
news:4uWdnUXHMLeWg3fdRVn-uw@heartoftn.net...
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
==============================
Crying? They have the zygotes/fetuses walking in the womb, laughing,
smiling and feeling "joy." What next? Dancing sperm and eggs?
FP..........
The "crying" is a reflex, an attempt to breathe. It would rarely occur so
early.
The lungs are not sufficiently developed at 21 weeks for breathing to be
sustained, and lack surfactant. When a child is to be born very early (for
medical reasons, by caesarean) steroids are given to the mother to develop
the lungs more quickly, and the baby may be given surfactant to try to save
it.
Geopelia
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| User: "Harry Ballsac..a. Harry" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
05 Jul 2004 06:40:54 PM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
What to say those living humans don't feel pain, are you now saying your god
and you can state with fact that that life begins when you say you moron..
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
06 Jul 2004 12:28:32 AM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
How do you know this is a lie? unborn children feel pain you know,
just as born children do, for they are the same thing, just in a
different environment. (yes I know in early stages of human
development there is not a capacity for the unborn to feel pain, but
it develops very early) And this is irrevelant anyway. Feeling no pain
or not being self aware doesn't make the unborn any less human.
If the only way for you to justify abortion is to pretend (and lie)
that the unborn has no feeling and is somehow unhuman, maybe you know
your cause is wrong. (Don't ask me to prove the obvious, that the
unborn is a human being...you try and prove its not!)(And don't give
me crap like, the unborn can't be a human being until it can use its
brain and is self aware, the unborn can't drive a car yet either,
because its not meant to be able to at that stage of development)
Would it even matter to you if the unborn human did feel pain? Would
it matter to you if you discovered that the unborn is a human being? I
think not....so why do pro choicers spend such fruitless energy trying
to convince us (or themselves) that the unborn is not human?
So stick to your arguments that its the mothers choice to kill her
unborn child because it lives in her body, but don't insult our
intelligence by denying that a human being is killed by abortion. That
is an insult to any mother who has had to bury their child after a
miscarriage. A mother here (in australia) had her child killed in a
road rage incident a few years ago, her child was killed in her womb.
Could you say to her that she has not lost her son (Byron) that she
has just lost a blob of tissue that although gentically human is not a
human being. She also had to get a death certificate for her sons
death. (her son ....not her fetus)
And what's with the language used in here? I've seen people been
called a liar for calling the unborn a child or baby (very common
usages of the word)...so Ray you calling him a liar in here makes me
think that he's telling the truth and you don't like it...I don't know
if what was originally posted is a lie or not, but it makes sense to
me that the unborn would feel pain and crying is a natural reaction of
feeling pain.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
06 Jul 2004 12:31:30 PM |
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Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
2) A fetus in the womb doesn't cry because there's no air.
3) There's no evidence that a fetus EVER cries.
unborn children feel pain you know,
Pro-lie propaganda. Prior to the 3rd trimester the nervous system
isn't sufficiently developed.
just as born children dof for they are the same thing,
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
06 Jul 2004 10:36:44 PM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccenlh$ijm$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
2) A fetus in the womb doesn't cry because there's no air.
3) There's no evidence that a fetus EVER cries.
A fetus before abortion is very much alive, of course they can't feel
pain after they are dead, while they are being killed they may feel
pain.
You do not need air to cry, nor even need to make a sound. You don't
know when the unborn begin to feel pain!
unborn children feel pain you know,
Pro-lie propaganda. Prior to the 3rd trimester the nervous system
isn't sufficiently developed.
Again you DON'T KNOW when the unborn begin to feel pain, could be much
earlier than the 3rd trimester, the nervous system is one of the 1st
sytems that develop. IVF doctors in the 80's used to agree to discard
embryo's that were more than 15 days! old because they thought they
MIGHT have developed enough to feel pain.
why would they not feel pain? they are human beings and once their
nervous system has developed it is quite understandable for them to
feel pain. (would it matter to you if they did feel pain)Why would I
need to revert to propaganda? the pro life movement doesn't need to,
we KNOW when life begins, we don't need to change out ideas. EG does
life begin at birth, when the baby is viable, when it can feel pain,
when the umbilical cord is cut? I do not need to use any propaganda.
We don't try and change language, and we respect life. NOt just
support a multinational industry that is moore unethical that the
tabaco industry. And we don't use lies to somehow make the unborn
sound non human.
just as born children dof for they are the same thing,
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
That is not a lie. You are just showing ignorance if you think the
unborn child is someone (or something) else ather they are born.
Because that is what you have said by accusing me of lying. They are
the same person ...logical if you think about it. Just their living
environment has changed (yes I know there are many physiological
changes that happen at birth, none change the baby into a different
being.
If you feel pain 1 hour after your birth, there is a pretty good
chance that you would be able to feel pain 1 hr before birth.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
07 Jul 2004 02:00:58 AM |
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Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccenlh$ijm$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
2) A fetus in the womb doesn't cry because there's no air.
3) There's no evidence that a fetus EVER cries.
A fetus before abortion is very much alive, of course they can't feel
pain after they are dead, while they are being killed they may feel
pain.
And may not.
You do not need air to cry, nor even need to make a sound.
Yes you do.
You don't
know when the unborn begin to feel pain!
And you do?
unborn children feel pain you know,
Pro-lie propaganda. Prior to the 3rd trimester the nervous system
isn't sufficiently developed.
Again you DON'T KNOW when the unborn begin to feel pain, could be much
Don't assume that everybody is as stupid as you.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
07 Jul 2004 11:22:31 PM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccg73a$5ul$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccenlh$ijm$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
2) A fetus in the womb doesn't cry because there's no air.
3) There's no evidence that a fetus EVER cries.
A fetus before abortion is very much alive, of course they can't feel
pain after they are dead, while they are being killed they may feel
pain.
And may not.
Probably do, definately in the later stages of life
You do not need air to cry, nor even need to make a sound.
Yes you do.
Reaction to pain, call it cry call it wince call it whatever you want
You don't
know when the unborn begin to feel pain!
And you do?
Well so far it seems sometime 1st trimester that capability is
developed, unless you might have something to say on the sunbject? Do
you have anything to say?
unborn children feel pain you know,
Pro-lie propaganda. Prior to the 3rd trimester the nervous system
isn't sufficiently developed.
Again you DON'T KNOW when the unborn begin to feel pain, could be much
Don't assume that everybody is as stupid as you.
Again you say nothing lol. It is very much suggested that pain can be
felt in the 1st trimester of life. Any because the unborn IS a human
being, it is irrevelant if their death is painless or not. Would it
matter to you if the unborn did feel immense pain.?
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
07 Jul 2004 11:47:25 PM |
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In article <260fc7ca.0407072022.49b38d7b@posting.google.com>, Damien
<legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message
news:<ccg73a$5ul$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message
news:<ccenlh$ijm$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message
news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
2) A fetus in the womb doesn't cry because there's no air.
3) There's no evidence that a fetus EVER cries.
A fetus before abortion is very much alive, of course they can't feel
pain after they are dead, while they are being killed they may feel
pain.
And may not.
Probably do, definately in the later stages of life
Lets say you are right. They feel pain. So? What is your point?
You do not need air to cry, nor even need to make a sound.
Yes you do.
Reaction to pain, call it cry call it wince call it whatever you want
OK - it causes pain. Now what? Are you saying that because the idea
bothers you others should change their views?
You don't
know when the unborn begin to feel pain!
And you do?
Well so far it seems sometime 1st trimester that capability is
developed, unless you might have something to say on the sunbject? Do
you have anything to say?
It is strange how reality changes when it doesn't go your way. For
hundreds of years, baby boys were circumcised just after birth without
anesthesia because it was believed a baby doesn't feel pain just after
birth. Now, when it is useful to the abortion debate, we are saying it
happen after three months from conception. How convenient.
unborn children feel pain you know,
Pro-lie propaganda. Prior to the 3rd trimester the nervous system
isn't sufficiently developed.
Again you DON'T KNOW when the unborn begin to feel pain, could be much
Don't assume that everybody is as stupid as you.
Again you say nothing lol. It is very much suggested that pain can be
felt in the 1st trimester of life. Any because the unborn IS a human
being, it is irrevelant if their death is painless or not. Would it
matter to you if the unborn did feel immense pain.?
Why should it? What are you really getting at? Have you ever thought
about why that bothers you?
.
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
14 Jul 2004 01:32:47 AM |
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A fetus before abortion is very much alive, of course they can't feel
pain after they are dead, while they are being killed they may feel
pain.
And may not.
Probably do, definately in the later stages of life
Lets say you are right. They feel pain. So? What is your point?
My point is that they suffer!!
You do not need air to cry, nor even need to make a sound.
Yes you do.
Reaction to pain, call it cry call it wince call it whatever you want
OK - it causes pain. Now what? Are you saying that because the idea
bothers you others should change their views?
No not because it bothers me. It should, and will bother others when
they know this. (yes i know not everyone will give a *****)
You don't
know when the unborn begin to feel pain!
And you do?
Well so far it seems sometime 1st trimester that capability is
developed, unless you might have something to say on the sunbject? Do
you have anything to say?
It is strange how reality changes when it doesn't go your way. For
hundreds of years, baby boys were circumcised just after birth without
anesthesia because it was believed a baby doesn't feel pain just after
birth. Now, when it is useful to the abortion debate, we are saying it
happen after three months from conception. How convenient.
Reality doesn't change. And we know that babies do feel pain. Not
because of abortion are we saying this. Because science is just
confirming what we already suspected. we don't need to change our
angle, life still begins at conception. It doesn't matter if the
unborn do or do not feel pain. It just helps to get the message
accross when people see the unborn for the human beings they are.
unborn children feel pain you know,
Pro-lie propaganda. Prior to the 3rd trimester the nervous system
isn't sufficiently developed.
Again you DON'T KNOW when the unborn begin to feel pain, could be much
Don't assume that everybody is as stupid as you.
Again you say nothing lol. It is very much suggested that pain can be
felt in the 1st trimester of life. Any because the unborn IS a human
being, it is irrevelant if their death is painless or not. Would it
matter to you if the unborn did feel immense pain.?
Why should it? What are you really getting at? Have you ever thought
about why that bothers you?
Yes, because i hate to think of ANYONE suffering, yes even the mother.
You dodged the question. Would it matter to you if the unborn did feel
immense pain.?
.
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
06 Jul 2004 11:47:37 PM |
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On 6 Jul 2004 20:36:44 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccenlh$ijm$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien < > wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
2) A fetus in the womb doesn't cry because there's no air.
3) There's no evidence that a fetus EVER cries.
A fetus before abortion is very much alive, of course they can't feel
pain after they are dead, while they are being killed they may feel
pain.
You do not need air to cry, nor even need to make a sound. You don't
know when the unborn begin to feel pain!
unborn children feel pain you know,
Pro-lie propaganda. Prior to the 3rd trimester the nervous system
isn't sufficiently developed.
Again you DON'T KNOW when the unborn begin to feel pain, could be much
earlier than the 3rd trimester, the nervous system is one of the 1st
sytems that develop. IVF doctors in the 80's used to agree to discard
embryo's that were more than 15 days! old because they thought they
MIGHT have developed enough to feel pain.
why would they not feel pain? they are human beings and once their
nervous system has developed it is quite understandable for them to
feel pain. (would it matter to you if they did feel pain)Why would I
need to revert to propaganda? the pro life movement doesn't need to,
we KNOW when life begins, we don't need to change out ideas. EG does
life begin at birth, when the baby is viable, when it can feel pain,
when the umbilical cord is cut? I do not need to use any propaganda.
We don't try and change language, and we respect life. NOt just
support a multinational industry that is moore unethical that the
tabaco industry. And we don't use lies to somehow make the unborn
sound non human.
just as born children dof for they are the same thing,
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
That is not a lie. You are just showing ignorance if you think the
unborn child is someone (or something) else ather they are born.
Because that is what you have said by accusing me of lying. They are
the same person ...logical if you think about it. Just their living
environment has changed (yes I know there are many physiological
changes that happen at birth, none change the baby into a different
being.
If you feel pain 1 hour after your birth, there is a pretty good
chance that you would be able to feel pain 1 hr before birth.
You made some very good points there, Damien. Very good points.
If only one poor, frightened mother heard you in time, you've lived a
worthwhile life.
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
06 Jul 2004 12:56:20 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:31:30 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours. That's what we
were discussing the other week, don't you remember? Some British
doctors are demanding that aborted babies be put in the Intensive Care
Unit.
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
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| User: "Paul Anderson" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
06 Jul 2004 01:36:47 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:56:20 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:31:30 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours. That's what we
were discussing the other week, don't you remember? Some British
doctors are demanding that aborted babies be put in the Intensive Care
Unit.
=========== www.m-e.com =============
abortion:
1 : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting
in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus
====================================
If there is a baby that survives for hours then it is a premature
birth, not an abortion.
With a very premature birth the parents and the doctors often have the
choice of just providing what comfort they can and allowing an early
death, -- or applying heroic methods to see how long they can drag out
the agony of dying.
.
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
06 Jul 2004 01:52:17 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:36:47 GMT, (Paul Anderson)
wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:56:20 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:31:30 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours. That's what we
were discussing the other week, don't you remember? Some British
doctors are demanding that aborted babies be put in the Intensive Care
Unit.
=========== www.m-e.com =============
abortion:
1 : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting
in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus
====================================
If there is a baby that survives for hours then it is a premature
birth, not an abortion.
"Closely followed by the death" does not exclude the baby's death in
the sluice room sink a couple of hours after been dragged from the
mother.
However, the definition of abortion that you give may be faulty.
There's a case for arguing that the pregnancy is terminated if the
baby dies in utero, and that the subsequent medical procedure is not
an abortion. You cannot abort an action that is already terminated.
With a very premature birth the parents and the doctors often have the
choice of just providing what comfort they can and allowing an early
death, -- or applying heroic methods to see how long they can drag out
the agony of dying.
When abortion was legalised in Britain almost 40 years ago, the
chances of saving premature babies were poorer than they are today.
Even some of those responsible for the passage of the Abortion Act are
now calling for abortions to be limited to 11 or 12 weeks into the
pregnancy.
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
06 Jul 2004 09:36:21 PM |
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|
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:31:30 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours.
Pro-lie propaganda.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Damien" |
|
| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
07 Jul 2004 04:43:52 AM |
|
|
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccfnj5$gdd$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:31:30 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours.
Pro-lie propaganda.
Calling people liars with nothing to back it up is pretty weak. It
would make sense to me that the unborn baby feels pain at least, maybe
not cry as we know it, but certainly respond to pain in some way, this
is from a psychology science text...
"The behaviour of a foetus inside the womb is understandably difficult
to observe and we know far less about prenatal psychology than
physiology. However, recent research has opened a few intriguing
windows into the psychological processes that may be present before
babies are born. In one of these investigations, Barbara Kisilevsky
and Darwin Muir (1991) recorded foetal heart rate through a microphone
placed on the pregnant mothers abdomen. After locating the unborn
baby's ear using ultrasound, the researchers played a particular sound
pattern (such as a steady vibrating noise) repeatedly, looking for
changes in heart rate both during the continuing presentation of the
original type of sound and at the point when the sound was changed to
a new type of noise (eg. a pure tone). The mother wore headphones
broadcasting loud music so that she would not be influenced by the
sounds her baby was hearing. The results suggested that even before
birth the foetus is cognitively sophisticated enough to experience
boredom. Kisilevsky and Muir discovered that foetal heart rate slowed
and kicking waned over time as the same sound was presented again and
again. However, when the pure tone replaced the vibrating noise (or
vice versa), the foetus reacted vigorously. Not only had the types of
sound been discriminated but the evidence indicated that unborn
infants are capable of becoming habituated to repeated stimulation. In
other words simple form of learning is possible even before the baby
leaves the womb." McGraw-Hill Book Company Australia Pty. Ltd. 2001.
Psychological Science, An Introduction. Bond, Nigel et al. p5.15
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
07 Jul 2004 11:30:47 PM |
|
|
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccfnj5$gdd$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:31:30 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours.
Pro-lie propaganda.
Calling people liars with nothing to back it up is pretty weak.
Shrug. Spewing idiotic propaganda without facts is weaker still.
It
would make sense to me that the unborn baby feels pain at least,
Does a carrot feel pain?
maybe
not cry as we know it, but certainly respond to pain in some way, this
is from a psychology science text...
"The behaviour of a foetus inside the womb is understandably difficult
to observe and we know far less about prenatal psychology than
physiology. However, recent research has opened a few intriguing
windows into the psychological processes that may be present before
babies are born. In one of these investigations, Barbara Kisilevsky
and Darwin Muir (1991) recorded foetal heart rate through a microphone
placed on the pregnant mothers abdomen. After locating the unborn
This says nothing about the stage of the pregnancy. There are vast
differences between early pregnancy, when almost all abortions are
done, and late pregnancy, when this experiment was likely done.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Damien" |
|
| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
08 Jul 2004 09:19:56 PM |
|
|
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cciilm$l5a$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccfnj5$gdd$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:31:30 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours.
Pro-lie propaganda.
Calling people liars with nothing to back it up is pretty weak.
Shrug. Spewing idiotic propaganda without facts is weaker still.
still you have nothing? your head still in the sand? You don't
research this much do you? I have presented facts, sry you are a
moron...can't you read I've even cited them for you. I don't need to
lie! The pro life 'angle' doesn't change like the pro death one. Life
still begins at conception!
It
would make sense to me that the unborn baby feels pain at least,
Does a carrot feel pain?
Is a carrot a human being? is it relevant?
maybe
not cry as we know it, but certainly respond to pain in some way, this
is from a psychology science text...
"The behaviour of a foetus inside the womb is understandably difficult
to observe and we know far less about prenatal psychology than
physiology. However, recent research has opened a few intriguing
windows into the psychological processes that may be present before
babies are born. In one of these investigations, Barbara Kisilevsky
and Darwin Muir (1991) recorded foetal heart rate through a microphone
placed on the pregnant mothers abdomen. After locating the unborn
This says nothing about the stage of the pregnancy. There are vast
differences between early pregnancy, when almost all abortions are
done, and late pregnancy, when this experiment was likely done.
Yes there are differences in all stages of life. What are you trying
to say? do you not support abortions at all ages of the unborn? The
unborn is still the same individual human if they are killed in an
early abortion or late term.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
08 Jul 2004 11:49:21 PM |
|
|
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cciilm$l5a$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccfnj5$gdd$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:31:30 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours.
Pro-lie propaganda.
Calling people liars with nothing to back it up is pretty weak.
Shrug. Spewing idiotic propaganda without facts is weaker still.
still you have nothing? your head still in the sand? You don't
An aborted fetus is DEAD, moron. That what "aborted" means.
It
would make sense to me that the unborn baby feels pain at least,
Does a carrot feel pain?
Is a carrot a human being?
As much a human being as is an embryo.
maybe
not cry as we know it, but certainly respond to pain in some way, this
is from a psychology science text...
"The behaviour of a foetus inside the womb is understandably difficult
to observe and we know far less about prenatal psychology than
physiology. However, recent research has opened a few intriguing
windows into the psychological processes that may be present before
babies are born. In one of these investigations, Barbara Kisilevsky
and Darwin Muir (1991) recorded foetal heart rate through a microphone
placed on the pregnant mothers abdomen. After locating the unborn
This says nothing about the stage of the pregnancy. There are vast
differences between early pregnancy, when almost all abortions are
done, and late pregnancy, when this experiment was likely done.
Yes there are differences in all stages of life. What are you trying
to say?
Idiot.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
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| User: "Damien" |
|
| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
11 Jul 2004 07:23:09 AM |
|
|
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccl84g$uuk$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cciilm$l5a$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccfnj5$gdd$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:31:30 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours.
Pro-lie propaganda.
Calling people liars with nothing to back it up is pretty weak.
Shrug. Spewing idiotic propaganda without facts is weaker still.
still you have nothing? your head still in the sand? You don't
An aborted fetus is DEAD, moron. That what "aborted" means.
Yes it has been killed. You have to be alive in order to die.
It
would make sense to me that the unborn baby feels pain at least,
Does a carrot feel pain?
Is a carrot a human being?
As much a human being as is an embryo.
LOL oh really? so this young offspring of human parents is as human as
a carrot to you? i think we see why you have the views you do....your
a stupid fool.
maybe
not cry as we know it, but certainly respond to pain in some way, this
is from a psychology science text...
"The behaviour of a foetus inside the womb is understandably difficult
to observe and we know far less about prenatal psychology than
physiology. However, recent research has opened a few intriguing
windows into the psychological processes that may be present before
babies are born. In one of these investigations, Barbara Kisilevsky
and Darwin Muir (1991) recorded foetal heart rate through a microphone
placed on the pregnant mothers abdomen. After locating the unborn
This says nothing about the stage of the pregnancy. There are vast
differences between early pregnancy, when almost all abortions are
done, and late pregnancy, when this experiment was likely done.
Yes there are differences in all stages of life. What are you trying
to say?
Idiot.
well don't feel bad at being an idiot. you might be just ignorant.
Come on have a go ya mug! There is vast difference between birth and
old age, but your still a human being.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
11 Jul 2004 03:13:36 PM |
|
|
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccl84g$uuk$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cciilm$l5a$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccfnj5$gdd$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:31:30 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cccldp$c66$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours.
Pro-lie propaganda.
Calling people liars with nothing to back it up is pretty weak.
Shrug. Spewing idiotic propaganda without facts is weaker still.
still you have nothing? your head still in the sand? You don't
An aborted fetus is DEAD, moron. That what "aborted" means.
Yes it has been killed. You have to be alive in order to die.
It
would make sense to me that the unborn baby feels pain at least,
Does a carrot feel pain?
Is a carrot a human being?
As much a human being as is an embryo.
LOL oh really? so this young offspring of human parents is as human as
It's not "offspring" until it has sprung off, moron.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
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| User: "Damien" |
|
| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
12 Jul 2004 01:48:53 AM |
|
|
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours.
Pro-lie propaganda.
Calling people liars with nothing to back it up is pretty weak.
Shrug. Spewing idiotic propaganda without facts is weaker still.
still you have nothing? your head still in the sand? You don't
An aborted fetus is DEAD, moron. That what "aborted" means.
Yes it has been killed. You have to be alive in order to die.
It
would make sense to me that the unborn baby feels pain at least,
Does a carrot feel pain?
Is a carrot a human being?
As much a human being as is an embryo.
LOL oh really? so this young offspring of human parents is as human as
It's not "offspring" until it has sprung off, moron.
well sry to shoot you down ostrich ...again. Head still in the sand?
"Embryo /embreo/ n (pl. –os) 1a an unborn or unhatched offspring. b a
human offspring in the first eight weeks from conception. 2 a
rudimentary plant contained in a seed. 3 a thing in a rudimentary
stage. 4 (attrib.) undeveloped, immature." The Oxford English
Reference Dictionary. Oxford University Press 1995, 1996. Chief ed.
Patrick Hanks, p460.
You can try and change language as much as you want, can't change the
fact that a NEW life has been created.
"When a spermatozoon has entered a secondary oocyte, the tail is shed
and the nucleus in the head develops into a structure called the male
pronucleus. The nucleus of the oocyte develops into female pronucleus.
After the pronuclei are formed, they fuse to produce a segmentation
nucleus. The segmentation nucleus is diploid since it contains 23
chromosomes (n) from the male pronucleus and 23 chromosomes (n) from
the female pronucleus. Thus the fusion of the haploid (n) pronuclei
restores the diploid number. The fertilized ovum, consisting of a
segmentation nucleus, cytoplasm, and zona pellucida, is called a
zygote (ZI-got; zygosis = a joining)" Tortora, G. (1995) Harper
Collins College Publishers. Principles of Human anatomy 7th Edition,
p776.
"Diploid (DIP-loyd) Having the number of chromosomes
characteristically found in the somatic cells of an organism.
Symbolized 2n." Tortora, G. (1995) Harper Collins College Publishers.
Principles of Human anatomy 7th Edition, pG 14.
So there we go already displaying human characteristics moments after
conception.
.
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| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
12 Jul 2004 01:50:30 AM |
|
|
Damien wrote:
According to one study, aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from
21 weeks
If you're going to be a liar, try not to be a stupid liar.
Google is your friend.
How do you know this is a lie?
Because unlike pro-lie morons, I am actually capable of independant
though. I don't blindly accept idiotic claims just because soem
***** claims that they're from some "study".
1) An aborted fetus is dead and doesn't cry.
Eh? Some of them actually survive for several hours.
Pro-lie propaganda.
Calling people liars with nothing to back it up is pretty weak.
Shrug. Spewing idiotic propaganda without facts is weaker still.
still you have nothing? your head still in the sand? You don't
An aborted fetus is DEAD, moron. That what "aborted" means.
Yes it has been killed. You have to be alive in order to die.
It
would make sense to me that the unborn baby feels pain at least,
Does a carrot feel pain?
Is a carrot a human being?
As much a human being as is an embryo.
LOL oh really? so this young offspring of human parents is as human as
It's not "offspring" until it has sprung off, moron.
well sry to shoot you down ostrich ...again. Head still in the sand?
"Embryo /embreo/ n (pl. –os) 1a an unborn or unhatched offspring. b a
human offspring in the first eight weeks from conception. 2 a
rudimentary plant contained in a seed. 3 a thing in a rudimentary
stage. 4 (attrib.) undeveloped, immature." The Oxford English
Reference Dictionary. Oxford University Press 1995, 1996. Chief ed.
Patrick Hanks, p460.
You can try and change language as much as you want, can't change the
fact that a NEW life has been created.
Thereby negating the life it's feeding on?
Sorry- she was there first, she still takes priority.
"When a spermatozoon has entered a secondary oocyte, the tail is shed
and the nucleus in the head develops into a structure called the male
pronucleus. The nucleus of the oocyte develops into female pronucleus.
After the pronuclei are formed, they fuse to produce a segmentation
nucleus. The segmentation nucleus is diploid since it contains 23
chromosomes (n) from the male pronucleus and 23 chromosomes (n) from
the female pronucleus. Thus the fusion of the haploid (n) pronuclei
restores the diploid number. The fertilized ovum, consisting of a
segmentation nucleus, cytoplasm, and zona pellucida, is called a
zygote (ZI-got; zygosis = a joining)" Tortora, G. (1995) Harper
Collins College Publishers. Principles of Human anatomy 7th Edition,
p776.
"Diploid (DIP-loyd) Having the number of chromosomes
characteristically found in the somatic cells of an organism.
Symbolized 2n." Tortora, G. (1995) Harper Collins College Publishers.
Principles of Human anatomy 7th Edition, pG 14.
So there we go already displaying human characteristics moments after
conception.
--
--sexkitten--Stop the Slaughter!
Boycott Baby Oil!
.
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| User: "Damien" |
|
| Title: Re: "Aborted foetuses have been heard to cry from 21 weeks" (Lies) |
12 Jul 2004 09:25:53 AM |
|
|
You can try and change language as much as you want, can't change the
fact that a NEW life has been created.
Thereby negating the life it's feeding on?
Sorry- she was there first, she still takes priority.
Yes I agree, if her life is in danger as a direct result of the
pregnancy. If not tolerance should be shown, this young is her child.
"When a spermatozoon has entered a secondary oocyte, the tail is shed
and the nucleus in the head develops into a structure called the male
pronucleus. The nucleus of the oocyte develops into female pronucleus.
After the pronuclei are formed, they fuse to produce a segmentation
nucleus. The segmentation nucleus is diploid since it contains 23
chromosomes (n) from the male pronucleus and 23 chromosomes (n) from
the female pronucleus. Thus the fusion of the haploid (n) pronuclei
restores the diploid number. The fertilized ovum, consisting of a
segmentation nucleus, cytoplasm, and zona pellucida, is called a
zygote (ZI-got; zygosis = a joining)" Tortora, G. (1995) Harper
Collins College Publishers. Principles of Human anatomy 7th Edition,
p776.
"Diploid (DIP-loyd) Having the number of chromosomes
characteristically found in the somatic cells of an organism.
Symbolized 2n." Tortora, G. (1995) Harper Collins College Publishers.
Principles of Human anatomy 7th Edition, pG 14.
.
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