abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election

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Topic:	Science > Abortion
User:	"magnulus"
Date:	12 Oct 2004 12:03:53 AM
Object:	abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election

I have been pro-choice for many years. I've always been somewhat liberal
and I usually vote Democrat. I simply don't want to intrude into a woman's
choices or her private life. As somebody who is not religious, who doesn't
have any proof even that a soul exists, I found the idea of a zygote being a
human being with a soul, and aborting an embryo or zygote to be equal to
murder, to be a bit far fetched. Thus, I couldn't bring myself to consider
abortion is immoral, especially since most pro-lifers are also Republicans,
and consistently vote against programs that help poor women, often women who
most need the choice of abortion. But recently I have been rethinking this
belief. Where are we headed as a society for the respect for human life?
Christopher Reeve past away recently, as most people are aware. While
Christopher Reeve was a champion for research into spinal courd injuries, he
did much to re-inforce the stereotype that disabled people are to be pitty,
rather than respected for their inherent dignity as human beings. Many
people, in Christopher Reeve's situation, would have wanted suicide- and
indeed, here in Florida a few years ago, a woman in a very similar situation
as Christopher Reeves, having a spinal chord injury, chose to take steps
that would lead to her death, with the sanction and approval of the state
and most of the citizens, despite pleas from disabled advocates that in
time, she might decide that her life was worth living. Many people fear
disabilities like Mr. Reeve had, or blindness, as fates worse than death.
You see, I was born with birth defects. I was born with a ventricular
septal defect of the heart, an inguinal hernia, nystagmus in my eyes (and
involuntary osscilation of the eyes back and forth, very fine movement)
resulting from hypoplastic optic nerves (underdeveloped optic nerves), and
strabismus (one of my eyes, alternative will turn outward, and I have more
difficulty seeing stereoscopicly, with both eyes together). Now, the
"pro-choice" camp, says that women should have the right to abort children
with "serious birth defects"... would that be children, such as me? After
all, my mother had two previous miscarraiges (spontaneous abortions) prior
to me, and the doctors were worried that she would loose me too.
I often wondered for many, many years if I would be better off dead, if I
were not simply a waste of human flesh, a fluke of nature not meant to be.
To be honest, I still struggle wit this. Why couldn't I have been born
normal, like all the other kids? Though my condition is not as visible as
somebody in a wheelchair, or somebody with Parkinsons, people notice "odd"
things about me, sometimes I turn my head to see things or to read becaues
of the nystagmus, I get close to objects, I have a small pigmentation in the
far lower corner of my eye, that is sometimes visible (especially when that
eye turns outward when I am not looking through it). So I know what it's
like to be different, to feel that some people don't treat you the same as
other people, to have people ask if you are blind, etc.
And then there's euthanasia. Many Americans consider it "compassionate",
and several states have legalized it or consider legallizing it. But most
people whom Dr. Kevorkian killed were not terminally ill, indeed, most of
them had diseases that would be ammenable to palliative care. One woman
even had nothing wrong with her physically, at least according to a medical
examiner. One even had ALS- Dr. Stephen Hawking also has ALS, yet his
contribution to human knowledge has been very great indeed.
Dr. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, the pioneering researcher on the psychology of
the dying and grief, had emphatically stated (she is dead now, of course)
that "assisted suicide", she believes, does not help dying people. Rather,
it cheats them of their final stage of dying: acceptance and resolution to
their life story. So people who advocate "helping" the terminally ill
during the second to last stage of dying, depression, could very well be
cheating people of the last peace they may ever experience in this life.
How is that compassionate? In addition, almost everybody who works or
started the hospice movement is oppossed to physician-assisted suicide.
What's next, suicide booths? Why are we spending so much money on efforts
to PREVENT depression and suicide, yet at the same time, some liberals are
encouraging it? Behind all this talk of euthanasia is a culture of death
and a degrading of life, especially life that is less able to defend
itself... fetuses, babies, the disabled, and the elderly. Anything that
could potentially be a "burden" to society, you know, the blue collar slobs
out there who want a kid with 10 fingers and 10 toes... the rich people who,
instead of having their tax dollars going to keep Grandpa alive in a
hospice, would rather have a nice vacation in the Hamptons...
I listened to both debates. And in the second debate... I found Kerry's
defending himself, decidely wishy-washy. He just tries to play both sides.
He wants to help disabled people, that's great.. but he has no problems with
using one kind of human tissue derived from Homo sapenies, just because it
is not considered "a person"? What exactly does he consider a person? Is a
profoundly retarded human a person- why not just turn him into an organ
donor, it would be so easy, wouldn't it? Heck, there are plenty of people
like ***** Cheney who need new hearts (and traffic fatalities are going
down, so fewer organ donors from traditional sources)... so why not? You
see the slippery slope at work?
But strangely enough, I found Bush's principled stance against abortion,
somehow more admirable. I can't say I'd feel good about voting for Bush,
because I most certainly am not a person of a Right persuasion, but how am I
supposed to feel good about voting for Kerry? Just waving around Michael J
Fox commercials doesn't prove you respect life or the disabled. For every
Michael J Fox and Christopher Reeves, there are plenty of the "gimps" of
society who have no voice and much less money- whose big issue isn't a
"cure" so much as a struggle for their dignity as human beings. Who is
speaking for them, really, in an increasingly bioethically libertine
society?
.

User: "The other Donald"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	12 Oct 2004 06:37:25 AM

"magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%yJad.75178$yp.53401@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

I have been pro-choice for many years. I've always been somewhat

liberal

and I usually vote Democrat. I simply don't want to intrude into a

woman's

choices or her private life. As somebody who is not religious, who

doesn't

have any proof even that a soul exists, I found the idea of a zygote being

human being with a soul, and aborting an embryo or zygote to be equal to
murder, to be a bit far fetched. Thus, I couldn't bring myself to

consider

abortion is immoral, especially since most pro-lifers are also

Republicans,

and consistently vote against programs that help poor women, often women

who

most need the choice of abortion. But recently I have been rethinking

this

belief. Where are we headed as a society for the respect for human life?

You just showed your hand with that last smarmy, out-of-context
statement.....
I've heard similar crap from Bible-thumpers trying to convert me to their
dogma when they try the "I was once an atheist, too, when I turned away from
the Lord, blah, blah, blah."
This is the same *****. Sorry, I ain't buyin'.
--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
.

User: "magnulus"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	13 Oct 2004 01:37:47 AM

You know... what's really laughauble, is I probably stand to benefit more
immediately from embryonic stem cell research than you do, if indeed there
is any merit in it. But in the long term, will destroying human embryos and
advancing euthanasia, really be good for the disabled? I have my doubts.
What will happen, is that those currently disabled, mentally or physicall,
will be given the "cost cutting" option of assisted suicide. In some cases,
they won't even be given a choice. And babies with disabilities won't even
be born. Stem cells, OTOH, will remain for the wealthy to cure themselves
of their diseases. A beautiful, well functioning society built on a
foundation of moral rot.
.

User: "The other Donald"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	14 Oct 2004 12:52:44 AM

"magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:M14bd.161770$as2.28152@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

You know... what's really laughauble, is I probably stand to benefit

immediately from embryonic stem cell research than you do, if indeed there
is any merit in it.

Oh....so this is all about YOU, and to hell with anyone else that will
benefit from it.
Plus, there is a LOT of merit to it:
(Posted now for the umpteen-dozenth time):
---
Advances in curing frogs of paralysis using embryonic stem cells:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/08/03/stemcell.research/index.html
.....growing eyes from embryonic stem cells:
tiny url:
http://tinyurl.com/6gxvd
original:
http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/printArticle.pl?path=/articles/2002/04/22/1019441222506.html
The difference in the potential between embryonic and adult stem cells:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/res_stem.htm
---
This research may, and likely *will*, find a cure within my brother's
lifetime.
Take note: you are, in fact, entitled to your opinion. However, ***** you
eternally for attempting to stand in the way of medical advances that will
help the masses. If you have such a problem with it, fine. When the cures
begin coming in droves, don't you fucking dare avail yourself to them.

But in the long term, will destroying human embryos and
advancing euthanasia, really be good for the disabled? I have my doubts.

How hard did you drill your head into a concrete wall to come to the point
of equating the "destruction of human embryos" and "advancing euthanasia" or
even remotely get the impression that I, or anyone else here, advocates the
latter?

What will happen, is that those currently disabled, mentally or

physicall,

will be given the "cost cutting" option of assisted suicide.
In some cases,
they won't even be given a choice. And babies with disabilities won't

even

be born. Stem cells, OTOH, will remain for the wealthy to cure themselves
of their diseases. A beautiful, well functioning society built on a
foundation of moral rot.

You really have a serious persecution complex. You're so far off the deep
end now that it doesn't make sense to spend the time to address the points
individually.
--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
.

User: "magnulus"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	12 Oct 2004 07:06:39 AM

"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:VlPad.19697$iC4.13239@fe2.texas.rr.com...

from

the Lord, blah, blah, blah."

This is the same *****. Sorry, I ain't buyin'.

You are accusing me of being insencere in my intentions. Now would be a
good time to apologize.
So let's get this straight... you support eugenics and the idea that some
people are "life unworthy of life"?
.

User: "The other Donald"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	12 Oct 2004 02:01:19 PM

"magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mLPad.77196$yp.46996@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:VlPad.19697$iC4.13239@fe2.texas.rr.com...

You just showed your hand with that last smarmy, out-of-context
statement.....

I've heard similar crap from Bible-thumpers trying to convert me to

their

dogma when they try the "I was once an atheist, too, when I turned away

from

the Lord, blah, blah, blah."

This is the same *****. Sorry, I ain't buyin'.

You are accusing me of being insencere in my intentions. Now would be a
good time to apologize.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

So let's get this straight... you support eugenics and the idea that

some

people are "life unworthy of life"?

Nope.....and don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say, or you will be
branded a liar. Read my post, again, this time without your persecution
issues in place. Or has your disability somehow affected your reading
comprehension?
I put your words in that first paragraph right up there with the pandering
***** people that say: "I was just like you, until...." and then ramble
off on their crap trying to convert me to their cause when they haven't a
single legitimate point to make. That can be in religion "I was an atheist
once...", social issues "I used to think those spics/blacks/women were equal
to me....", "I was pro-choice, just like you, until I heard this
heart-touching story about an abortion survivor....", whatever.
In your message, you are using a typical pro-liar tactic of unilaterally
coupling "fetus" with the euthanasia of grown people, planting a 'flag'
based on an fallacious and unfounded premise. It is an invalid comparison,
and I've seen it countless times.
--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
.

User: "magnulus"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	12 Oct 2004 08:15:13 PM

"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:3SVad.21483$iC4.12176@fe2.texas.rr.com...

In your message, you are using a typical pro-liar tactic of unilaterally
coupling "fetus" with the euthanasia of grown people, planting a 'flag'
based on an fallacious and unfounded premise. It is an invalid comparison,
and I've seen it countless times.

How do you feel about the abortion of Down Syndrome children? How is this
suppossed to make adult Down Syndrome children feel? Isn't this a kind of
eugenics, where people decide to play god and decide which of us gets to set
foot upon the Earth?
The fact is, that I do not have to DIRECTLY equate abortion with killing a
human being. I just have to infer that abortion degrades the value of
living, disabled adult humans, because it implies that their mothers were
too stupid to have an abortion, and thus, they have no reason for being.
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	14 Oct 2004 12:23:04 AM

magnulus <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote:

"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:3SVad.21483$iC4.12176@fe2.texas.rr.com...

What kind of rabid fanatic are you? Do you see ANYBODY who is
pro-chocie demanding that anybody get an abortion? Are you so
appalingly selfish that you'd rather see women suffer and die
because you are scared what might have happened before you were
born?

The fact is, that I do not have to DIRECTLY equate abortion with killing a
human being. I just have to infer that abortion degrades the value of
living, disabled adult humans,

Like you degrade women, treating them like breeding animals and
slaves?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "magnulus"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	14 Oct 2004 10:39:28 AM

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ckl2fn$l21$1@bolt.sonic.net...

magnulus <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote:

What kind of rabid fanatic are you? Do you see ANYBODY who is
pro-chocie demanding that anybody get an abortion?

No, but they are implying that certain kinds of people are more deserving
of life than others. Society will pressure people to get abortions- it
already does in many ways. Remember, a survey found 90 percent of potential
parents would choose abortion if an amniosentesis found trisome-21 (Down
Syndrome) in the fetus.

Are you so
appalingly selfish that you'd rather see women suffer and die
because you are scared what might have happened before you were
born?

This is a nonsequitur. Nowhere did I say I wanted women to suffer and die.

Like you degrade women, treating them like breeding animals and
slaves?

I don't treat women that way (and yes, I am a male, last time I
checked...). You are creating a straw man. Women aren't breeding animals
or slaves for me, and they should not be that for anybody else either. That
doesn't mean that society should encourage people to make destructive
choices to society as a whole, specificly, individuals shouldn't be
encourage to make choices that would degrade the rights of others.
It's interesting... some of the most rabidly pro-abortion/pro-choice
vitriol on this NG are comming from the mouths of men. Often, it is
reflexive and knee-jerk, and doesn't want to hear anything that it doesn't
agree with. It is quick to pidgeonhole what it cannot understand (for
instance, assuming I am a religious fanatic, which is not the case.).
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	15 Oct 2004 12:11:18 AM

magnulus <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote:

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message

What kind of rabid fanatic are you? Do you see ANYBODY who is
pro-chocie demanding that anybody get an abortion?

No,

Then who is "playing God" but yourself?

but they are implying that certain kinds of people are more deserving
of life than others.

Don't project your own hate onto others.

Society will pressure people to get abortions-

Here's a clue: YOU are part of that society. YOU pressure women to
get abortions.

Are you so
appalingly selfish that you'd rather see women suffer and die
because you are scared what might have happened before you were
born?

This is a nonsequitur. Nowhere did I say I wanted women to suffer and die.

So you're pro-choice?

Like you degrade women, treating them like breeding animals and
slaves?

I don't treat women that way

Then you're not anti-abortion.

(and yes, I am a male, last time I
checked...). You are creating a straw man. Women aren't breeding animals
or slaves for me, and they should not be that for anybody else either. That
doesn't mean that society should encourage people to make destructive
choices to society as a whole, specificly, individuals shouldn't be
encourage to make choices that would degrade the rights of others.

And how much are YOU willing to pay to encourage women to have
children?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "magnulus"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	15 Oct 2004 01:50:35 AM

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cknm5l$f5g$1@bolt.sonic.net...

but they are implying that certain kinds of people are more deserving
of life than others.

Don't project your own hate onto others.

Is somebody said "maybe a woman should be able to abort a baby if it turns
out to look black", what would you think of that?

Here's a clue: YOU are part of that society. YOU pressure women to
get abortions.

Less so than most.

So you're pro-choice?

Provisionally, yes, I believe women should be able to terminate embryonic
pregrancies.
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	15 Oct 2004 11:12:30 AM

magnulus <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote:

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message

but they are implying that certain kinds of people are more deserving
of life than others.

Don't project your own hate onto others.

Is somebody said "maybe a woman should be able to abort a baby if it turns
out to look black", what would you think of that?

I'd say that HER body is HER business, and that if YOU want to keep
the "baby" alive then YOU should be the one willing to make the needed
sacrifices.
It's really easy for hypocrites to tell other people what they must do.
It's a lot harder to do what needs to be done.

Here's a clue: YOU are part of that society. YOU pressure women to
get abortions.

Less so than most.

So you're pro-choice?

Provisionally, yes, I believe women should be able to terminate embryonic
pregrancies.

You're not pro-choice. You're just another anti-abortion hypocrite
who thinks that other people should obey you.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Johnny"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	12 Oct 2004 10:19:53 AM

"magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mLPad.77196$yp.46996@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:VlPad.19697$iC4.13239@fe2.texas.rr.com...

from

the Lord, blah, blah, blah."

This is the same *****. Sorry, I ain't buyin'.

You are accusing me of being insencere in my intentions. Now would be a
good time to apologize.

So let's get this straight... you support eugenics and the idea that some
people are "life unworthy of life"?

Did that guy even read on in your post?
I do observe many Pro-Choicers to be without compassion.
It is one reason I am not Pro-Choice.

User: "Pr0r3p"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	12 Oct 2004 10:22:28 PM

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message news:<SBSad.310162$%n4.46249@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...

"magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mLPad.77196$yp.46996@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:VlPad.19697$iC4.13239@fe2.texas.rr.com...

from

the Lord, blah, blah, blah."

This is the same *****. Sorry, I ain't buyin'.

You are accusing me of being insencere in my intentions. Now would be a
good time to apologize.

So let's get this straight... you support eugenics and the idea that some
people are "life unworthy of life"?

Did that guy even read on in your post?
I do observe many Pro-Choicers to be without compassion.

Is that why you laugh at the thought of women suffering in back alleys
from "coathanger abortions" and then you justify their suffering with
"they deserved it"?
Yes, you've shown your compassion, and it smells like hatred.

It is one reason I am not Pro-Choice.

Yes, we know you'd have a hard time shaking your hatred for women
before becoming pro-choice.

User: "Johnny"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	15 Oct 2004 08:07:39 AM

"Pr0r3p" <pr0r3p@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b41296b4.0410121922.b3b9c26@posting.google.com...

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<SBSad.310162$%n4.46249@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...

"magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mLPad.77196$yp.46996@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:VlPad.19697$iC4.13239@fe2.texas.rr.com...

from

the Lord, blah, blah, blah."

This is the same *****. Sorry, I ain't buyin'.

You are accusing me of being insencere in my intentions. Now would be
a
good time to apologize.

So let's get this straight... you support eugenics and the idea that
some
people are "life unworthy of life"?

Did that guy even read on in your post?
I do observe many Pro-Choicers to be without compassion.

Is that why you laugh at the thought of women suffering in back alleys
from "coathanger abortions" and then you justify their suffering with
"they deserved it"?

Yes, you've shown your compassion, and it smells like hatred.

It is one reason I am not Pro-Choice.

Yes, we know you'd have a hard time shaking your hatred for women
before becoming pro-choice.

I do not hate women.
.

User: "Pr0r3p"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	16 Oct 2004 03:21:16 PM

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message news:<J3Pbd.4316$qH3.2622@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...

"Pr0r3p" <pr0r3p@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b41296b4.0410121922.b3b9c26@posting.google.com...

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<SBSad.310162$%n4.46249@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...

"magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mLPad.77196$yp.46996@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:VlPad.19697$iC4.13239@fe2.texas.rr.com...

from

the Lord, blah, blah, blah."

This is the same *****. Sorry, I ain't buyin'.

You are accusing me of being insencere in my intentions. Now would be
a
good time to apologize.

So let's get this straight... you support eugenics and the idea that
some
people are "life unworthy of life"?

Did that guy even read on in your post?
I do observe many Pro-Choicers to be without compassion.

Is that why you laugh at the thought of women suffering in back alleys
from "coathanger abortions" and then you justify their suffering with
"they deserved it"?

Yes, you've shown your compassion, and it smells like hatred.

It is one reason I am not Pro-Choice.

Yes, we know you'd have a hard time shaking your hatred for women
before becoming pro-choice.

I do not hate women.

"coathanger abortions"
"they deserved it"
.

User: "Johnny"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	16 Oct 2004 06:00:29 PM

"Pr0r3p" <pr0r3p@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b41296b4.0410161221.437ff3ad@posting.google.com...

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<J3Pbd.4316$qH3.2622@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...

"Pr0r3p" <pr0r3p@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b41296b4.0410121922.b3b9c26@posting.google.com...

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<SBSad.310162$%n4.46249@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...

"magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mLPad.77196$yp.46996@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:VlPad.19697$iC4.13239@fe2.texas.rr.com...

from

the Lord, blah, blah, blah."

This is the same *****. Sorry, I ain't buyin'.

You are accusing me of being insencere in my intentions. Now would
be
a
good time to apologize.

So let's get this straight... you support eugenics and the idea
that
some
people are "life unworthy of life"?

Did that guy even read on in your post?
I do observe many Pro-Choicers to be without compassion.

Is that why you laugh at the thought of women suffering in back alleys
from "coathanger abortions" and then you justify their suffering with
"they deserved it"?

Yes, you've shown your compassion, and it smells like hatred.

It is one reason I am not Pro-Choice.

Yes, we know you'd have a hard time shaking your hatred for women
before becoming pro-choice.

I do not hate women.

"coathanger abortions"

Right to Choose?
.

User: "Pr0r3p"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	16 Oct 2004 09:21:44 PM

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message news:<CRgcd.6762$qH3.6194@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...

"Pr0r3p" <pr0r3p@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
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"Pr0r3p" <pr0r3p@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
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"magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
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"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
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from

the Lord, blah, blah, blah."

This is the same *****. Sorry, I ain't buyin'.

You are accusing me of being insencere in my intentions. Now would
be
a
good time to apologize.

So let's get this straight... you support eugenics and the idea
that
some
people are "life unworthy of life"?

Did that guy even read on in your post?
I do observe many Pro-Choicers to be without compassion.

Is that why you laugh at the thought of women suffering in back alleys
from "coathanger abortions" and then you justify their suffering with
"they deserved it"?

Yes, you've shown your compassion, and it smells like hatred.

It is one reason I am not Pro-Choice.

Yes, we know you'd have a hard time shaking your hatred for women
before becoming pro-choice.

I do not hate women.

"coathanger abortions"

Right to Choose?

"Right to choose" has absolutely nothing to do with your hatred for
women. You're wanting to push women into back alleys so they can get
"coathanger abortions" and then justifying their suffering as "getting
what they deserve" is all the evidence needed to show how much you
hate women.
The fact that you ignore your hatred doesn't me that I, or anyone
else, can't see it when you make such blantaly hateful statements
about women.
.

User: "Johnny"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	17 Oct 2004 08:57:15 AM

"Pr0r3p" <pr0r3p@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b41296b4.0410161821.44f35a11@posting.google.com...

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<CRgcd.6762$qH3.6194@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...

"Pr0r3p" <pr0r3p@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b41296b4.0410161221.437ff3ad@posting.google.com...

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<J3Pbd.4316$qH3.2622@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...

"Pr0r3p" <pr0r3p@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b41296b4.0410121922.b3b9c26@posting.google.com...

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<SBSad.310162$%n4.46249@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...

"magnulus" <magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:mLPad.77196$yp.46996@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:VlPad.19697$iC4.13239@fe2.texas.rr.com...

from

the Lord, blah, blah, blah."

This is the same *****. Sorry, I ain't buyin'.

You are accusing me of being insencere in my intentions. Now
would
be
a
good time to apologize.

So let's get this straight... you support eugenics and the idea
that
some
people are "life unworthy of life"?

Did that guy even read on in your post?
I do observe many Pro-Choicers to be without compassion.

Is that why you laugh at the thought of women suffering in back
alleys
from "coathanger abortions" and then you justify their suffering
with
"they deserved it"?

Yes, you've shown your compassion, and it smells like hatred.

It is one reason I am not Pro-Choice.

Yes, we know you'd have a hard time shaking your hatred for women
before becoming pro-choice.

I do not hate women.

"coathanger abortions"

Right to Choose?

"Right to choose" has absolutely nothing to do with your hatred for
women. You're wanting to push women into back alleys so they can get
"coathanger abortions"

Not at all true. I do not hate women.

and then justifying their suffering as "getting
what they deserve" is all the evidence needed to show how much you
hate women.

I do not hate women.

The fact that you ignore your hatred doesn't me that I, or anyone
else, can't see it when you make such blantaly hateful statements
about women.

I do not hate women.
.

User: "Pr0r3p"
Title: Re: abortion, euthanasia, bioethics, and the election	17 Oct 2004 02:58:58 PM

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message news:<f_tcd.12016$qH3.3751@bignews6.bellsouth.net>...