| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Damien" |
| Date: |
07 Jul 2004 05:25:05 AM |
| Object: |
Babies learn in the womb |
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb, from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"The behaviour of a foetus inside the womb is understandably difficult
to observe and we know far less about prenatal psychology than
physiology. However, recent research has opened a few intriguing
windows into the psychological processes that may be present before
babies are born. In one of these investigations, Barbara Kisilevsky
and Darwin Muir (1991) recorded foetal heart rate through a microphone
placed on the pregnant mothers abdomen. After locating the unborn
baby's ear using ultrasound, the researchers played a particular sound
pattern (such as a steady vibrating noise) repeatedly, looking for
changes in heart rate both during the continuing presentation of the
original type of sound and at the point when the sound was changed to
a new type of noise (eg. a pure tone). The mother wore headphones
broadcasting loud music so that she would not be influenced by the
sounds her baby was hearing. The results suggested that even before
birth the foetus is cognitively sophisticated enough to experience
boredom. Kisilevsky and Muir discovered that foetal heart rate slowed
and kicking waned over time as the same sound was presented again and
again. However, when the pure tone replaced the vibrating noise (or
vice versa), the foetus reacted vigorously. Not only had the types of
sound been discriminated but the evidence indicated that unborn
infants are capable of becoming habituated to repeated stimulation. In
other words simple form of learning is possible even before the baby
leaves the womb." McGraw-Hill Book Company Australia Pty. Ltd. 2001.
Psychological Science, An Introduction. Bond, Nigel et al. p5.15
wow learning in the womb! nows there's a thought get your child
trained to the sound of your favourite songs so your kids learn to
tolerate your taste in old music. Or maybe the unborn could tell if
mummy really loves daddy lol they would be able to sense the change in
heart rate of the mother whenever dad was around. Seriously though
there was another study reported in the text about the unborn
responding to mothers voices and differentiating bewteen different
nursery rhymes! Amazing ... psychology of unborn children!
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
08 Jul 2004 12:33:22 AM |
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Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb, from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
08 Jul 2004 08:41:03 PM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccimb2$qc8$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb, from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
? Okaaaay random words now....
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
08 Jul 2004 11:47:59 PM |
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Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccimb2$qc8$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb, from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
? Okaaaay random words now....
You treat pregnant women as if they are invisible. Breeding anuimals
to be used for whatever purpose you wish.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
09 Jul 2004 10:04:17 AM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccl81u$ump$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccimb2$qc8$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb, from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
? Okaaaay random words now....
You treat pregnant women as if they are invisible. Breeding anuimals
to be used for whatever purpose you wish.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question? shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal? not to keep them
as slaves to societies demands, of maintaining a career at all costs,
being more worried about her appearance than her unborn childs life,
ending the unborns life because of financial pressures etc etc.
The original post is about phoetal pshychology, anything to say or
does the topic not interest you? wouldn't you like to know more about
the unborn? so you could be sure of your views and all...better to
have your head in the sand hey? like an ostrich!
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
09 Jul 2004 09:37:43 PM |
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"Damien" <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:260fc7ca.0407090704.5e728b06@posting.google.com...
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message
news:<ccl81u$ump$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message
news:<ccimb2$qc8$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb,
from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
? Okaaaay random words now....
You treat pregnant women as if they are invisible. Breeding anuimals
to be used for whatever purpose you wish.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
# We don't assume anything. It's up to the women to decide. Not you, and
not us.
shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
# You can't force a woman to keep and love unwanted children. They may
keep them, but they'll always resent them. And they'll most likely abuse
and neglect them. Many of us have seen this first hand. Both the women and
children suffer for years and years. Why force this on women and children?
not to keep them
as slaves to societies demands, of maintaining a career at all costs,
# Most career women are career women by choice, not force.
being more worried about her appearance than her unborn childs life,
# Her appearance? You've been reading too many anti-choice sites.
ending the unborns life because of financial pressures etc etc.
# Since when does she have to justify why she doesn't want to complete the
pregnancy? How many childbirth's have you survived so far?
The original post is about phoetal pshychology, anything to say or
does the topic not interest you? wouldn't you like to know more about
the unborn? so you could be sure of your views and all...better to
have your head in the sand hey? like an ostrich!
# And what does the above have to do with a woman's freedom to choose?
--
Flower Power...
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Pro-Choice
~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~{@
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking,
which leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy."
-- Robert Anton Wilson
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
11 Jul 2004 06:33:46 AM |
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"Flower Power" <Freedom@this-time.net> wrote in message news:<S42dnbBbNdigxXLd4p2dnA@heartoftn.net>...
"Damien" <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:260fc7ca.0407090704.5e728b06@posting.google.com...
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message
news:<ccl81u$ump$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message
news:<ccimb2$qc8$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb,
from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
? Okaaaay random words now....
You treat pregnant women as if they are invisible. Breeding anuimals
to be used for whatever purpose you wish.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
# We don't assume anything. It's up to the women to decide. Not you, and
not us.
the original post was about what/who is being aborted
shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
# You can't force a woman to keep and love unwanted children. They may
keep them, but they'll always resent them. And they'll most likely abuse
and neglect them. Many of us have seen this first hand. Both the women and
children suffer for years and years. Why force this on women and children?
You cannot predict future behaviour
not to keep them
as slaves to societies demands, of maintaining a career at all costs,
# Most career women are career women by choice, not force.
And having children should not stop that career
being more worried about her appearance than her unborn childs life,
# Her appearance? You've been reading too many anti-choice sites,
So your saying no women have abortion for those reasons?
ending the unborns life because of financial pressures etc etc.
# Since when does she have to justify why she doesn't want to complete the
pregnancy? How many childbirth's have you survived so far?
If the unborn were not human she would not have to justify it, unless
her life is at risk from the pregancy she has no justifiable reason to
end the life of the unborn child. Unless you could show me how the
unborn are not human?
The original post is about phoetal pshychology, anything to say or
does the topic not interest you? wouldn't you like to know more about
the unborn? so you could be sure of your views and all...better to
have your head in the sand hey? like an ostrich!
# And what does the above have to do with a woman's freedom to choose?
Everything, what does her right to choose abortion mean? What/who is
being aborted?
--
Flower Power...
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Pro-Choice
~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~{@
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking,
which leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy."
-- Robert Anton Wilson
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
10 Jul 2004 01:41:05 AM |
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Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccl81u$ump$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccimb2$qc8$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb, from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
? Okaaaay random words now....
You treat pregnant women as if they are invisible. Breeding anuimals
to be used for whatever purpose you wish.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of?
You must be projecting. I don't see anybody "afraid".
why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women
I don't.
shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
Who is stopping you?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
11 Jul 2004 06:37:03 AM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cco320$n0t$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccl81u$ump$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccimb2$qc8$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb, from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
? Okaaaay random words now....
You treat pregnant women as if they are invisible. Breeding anuimals
to be used for whatever purpose you wish.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of?
You must be projecting. I don't see anybody "afraid".
You seem to be afraid of talking about the unborn learning in the
womb, and displaying any other human characteristics
why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women
I don't.
shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
Who is stopping you?
WE as a society.
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| User: "david" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
13 Jul 2004 03:56:16 PM |
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(Damien) wrote in message news:<260fc7ca.0407110337.382dca6e@posting.google.com>...
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cco320$n0t$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien < > wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccl81u$ump$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien < > wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccimb2$qc8$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien < > wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb, from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
? Okaaaay random words now....
You treat pregnant women as if they are invisible. Breeding anuimals
to be used for whatever purpose you wish.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of?
You must be projecting. I don't see anybody "afraid".
You seem to be afraid of talking about the unborn learning in the
womb, and displaying any other human characteristics
why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women
I don't.
shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
Who is stopping you?
WE as a society.
Damien,
If you're new here - a bit of advice that will save you some time -
don't waste your time on Ray Fischer - he will never admit when he is
proven wrong and usually can't provide a speck of evidence to back up
his assertions and usually just attempts to change the subject when
provided with facts.
If you go to the following post - you'll see some of the ridiculous
things he says.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bs8iu4%248j5%241%40bolt.sonic.net&rnum=11
Including that a child isn't born until the umbilical cord is cut
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
15 Jul 2004 01:28:03 AM |
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Damien,
If you're new here - a bit of advice that will save you some time -
don't waste your time on Ray Fischer - he will never admit when he is
proven wrong and usually can't provide a speck of evidence to back up
his assertions and usually just attempts to change the subject when
provided with facts.
If you go to the following post - you'll see some of the ridiculous
things he says.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bs8iu4%248j5%241%40bolt.sonic.net&rnum=11
Including that a child isn't born until the umbilical cord is cut
Thanks for the advice. Yes I'm new here, and it didn't take long to
notice that about Ray. I just don't understand why he does it so
blatently? what does he gain other than loss of credibility ...and
help the people he's trying to ridicule!
.
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| User: "Osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
15 Jul 2004 01:34:14 AM |
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"Damien" <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:260fc7ca.0407142228.5cd31483@posting.google.com...
Damien,
If you're new here - a bit of advice that will save you some time -
don't waste your time on Ray Fischer - he will never admit when he is
proven wrong and usually can't provide a speck of evidence to back up
his assertions and usually just attempts to change the subject when
provided with facts.
If you go to the following post - you'll see some of the ridiculous
things he says.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bs8iu4%248j5%241%40bolt.sonic.net&rnum=11
Including that a child isn't born until the umbilical cord is cut
Thanks for the advice. Yes I'm new here, and it didn't take long to
notice that about Ray. I just don't understand why he does it so
blatently? what does he gain other than loss of credibility ...and
help the people he's trying to ridicule!
You are going to find out that there are a few people who are nothing but
mindless trolls in here.
Ray Fischer being one of them, along with David Barnes, Adam, Patrick
Humphrey, James Keegan (you will find out he is a true nutcase), and of
course Krisblake.
These people have nothing better to do other than to just sit in this NG and
throw insults back and forth. They have absolutely no intention to discuss
or debate an issue without making it personal or trying to divert attention.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
11 Jul 2004 10:10:32 PM |
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Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cco320$n0t$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccl81u$ump$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccimb2$qc8$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien <legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb, from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
? Okaaaay random words now....
You treat pregnant women as if they are invisible. Breeding anuimals
to be used for whatever purpose you wish.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of?
You must be projecting. I don't see anybody "afraid".
You seem to be afraid
You seem to be projecting.
why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women
I don't.
shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
Who is stopping you?
WE as a society.
Dont' start lying, moron. You are completely free to help all the
women and children you like. Spent your money and time to provide
food and chelter and education and toys.
Go for it.
Except for the wee problem that you're a whiny hypocrite who doesn't
actually care about people, there is nothing stopping you from helping
people.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
14 Jul 2004 02:07:07 AM |
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shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
Who is stopping you?
WE as a society.
Dont' start lying, moron. You are completely free to help all the
women and children you like. Spent your money and time to provide
food and chelter and education and toys.
This comming from you lol you are a proven liar! and your a hypocrite!
Sry ostrich, are you saying that you don't support women who want
their children?
Go for it.
Except for the wee problem that you're a whiny hypocrite who doesn't
actually care about people, there is nothing stopping you from helping
people.
Whiny is your call sign sry. Again your a hypocrite, you don't care
about people! You only support women who want an abortion, bugger
those poor women who want their children. why are you being such a
hypocrite? why don't you go and save animals in africa who are shock
horror, giving birth to their young! is it because you see humans as
different to animals? but only after they are born?
Again you lie, without anything to back yourself up! You're not even
logical! Why do you assume anything about me yet claim it like a fact?
does this go for everyhing you say, I already know you lie!
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| User: "Bobs Boyfriend" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
09 Jul 2004 10:28:36 AM |
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In article <260fc7ca.0407090704.5e728b06@posting.google.com>,
(Damien) wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message
news:<ccl81u$ump$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien < > wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message
news:<ccimb2$qc8$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien < > wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb, from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
? Okaaaay random words now....
You treat pregnant women as if they are invisible. Breeding anuimals
to be used for whatever purpose you wish.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question? shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
Why should it be "our" goal?
When a women indicates that she wants an abortion, she is also giving
some indication that she doesn't want, or can't meet the social
expectations of being a parent at that time in her life. Requiring
someone to be a parent when they can't or won't doesn't bode well for
children, or society.
.
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
11 Jul 2004 06:24:16 AM |
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Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question? shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
Why should it be "our" goal?
When a women indicates that she wants an abortion, she is also giving
some indication that she doesn't want, or can't meet the social
expectations of being a parent at that time in her life.
And no one could stope her. But what/who is she aborting?
Requiring someone to be a parent when they can't or won't doesn't
bode well for children, or society.
If they can't then they won't be able to be a parent (other than
artificial means which means they would want the child. If they won't
become parents then there is no hassle there will be nothing to
abort... why is fatherhood then forced on men without their choice in
the matter? my main point of this original post is to look at what is
being aborted rather than the mothers choice to abort. I will get to
that later...
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| User: "Somesappywriter" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
10 Jul 2004 08:09:09 AM |
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On 9 Jul 2004 08:04:17 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccl81u$ump$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien < > wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<ccimb2$qc8$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Damien < > wrote:
Human beings do not just appear at birth. They grow in the womb, from
conception until birth. Not only are the unborn alive and responsive
to external stumuli, they have the capability to learn.
"Woman? What woman?"
? Okaaaay random words now....
You treat pregnant women as if they are invisible. Breeding anuimals
to be used for whatever purpose you wish.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
We're not presumptuous to know her circumstances and what's best for
the pregnant woman. Only she has the right to assess her situation and
decide for herself, whatever (legal) avenue necessary,for her
situation.
In simpler terms; it's her choice.
shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
Why would you want people to keep babies they don't want?
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
You're unrealistic. Not even families who want their children, who
battle their asses working, schooling and finding other resources to
survive, have the luxury of people willing to care for them, for
eighteen years of the children's lives. People who often preach
anti-abortion also want to eliminate deprivation-prevention social
programs that could keep these people off the street and their tummies
filled.
not to keep them
as slaves to societies demands, of maintaining a career at all costs,
being more worried about her appearance than her unborn childs life,
ending the unborns life because of financial pressures etc etc.
And isn't it a shame that you have to select the most propagandized
reasons you think the majority of women have for commanding abortions.
You have absolutely *****-all idea why these women make that choice,
and you're not privy to that information.
The original post is about phoetal pshychology, anything to say or
does the topic not interest you? wouldn't you like to know more about
the unborn? so you could be sure of your views and all...better to
have your head in the sand hey? like an ostrich!
My beliefs on it are of no concern to the affected pregnant woman. She
must still decide on her own, regardless of the fantastical nonsense
you present here.
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
11 Jul 2004 06:57:23 AM |
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..
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
We're not presumptuous to know her circumstances and what's best for
the pregnant woman. Only she has the right to assess her situation and
decide for herself, whatever (legal) avenue necessary,for her
situation.
Ok the law is not really what this original post was about, more about
what/who is being aborted in the womb. If the unborn is indeed human
(as it seems to be) shouldn't they have a right to exist just because
they are human?
In simpler terms; it's her choice.
Yes as it is the choice of someone shooting you for no reason. Is this
choice right or wrong?
shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
Why would you want people to keep babies they don't want?
Because they are human beings, the same reason I think all people
should be protected whether they are loved/unwanted or not. I don't
think they should keep their babies, I think they should not kill
their child.
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
You're unrealistic. Not even families who want their children, who
battle their asses working, schooling and finding other resources to
survive, have the luxury of people willing to care for them, for
eighteen years of the children's lives. People who often preach
anti-abortion also want to eliminate deprivation-prevention social
programs that could keep these people off the street and their tummies
filled.
This is simply untrue. For a start the government pays families money
when they have children (family allowance) this is increased by number
of chilren. Mothers recieve lump sum payments for having children.
Their are many charities that help single mothers, struggling families
etc
not to keep them
as slaves to societies demands, of maintaining a career at all costs,
being more worried about her appearance than her unborn childs life,
ending the unborns life because of financial pressures etc etc.
And isn't it a shame that you have to select the most propagandized
reasons you think the majority of women have for commanding abortions.
You have absolutely *****-all idea why these women make that choice,
and you're not privy to that information.
well since any reason other than self defence (if the mother is going
to be killed as a direct result of the pregancy)is not a justifiable
reason for killing. it doesn't matter why these women make this
choice. What does this choice result in? does someone die? If the
unborn can indeed learn in the womb does this make them human
The original post is about phoetal pshychology, anything to say or
does the topic not interest you? wouldn't you like to know more about
the unborn? so you could be sure of your views and all...better to
have your head in the sand hey? like an ostrich!
My beliefs on it are of no concern to the affected pregnant woman. She
must still decide on her own, regardless of the fantastical nonsense
you present here.
Why is it nonsense? do you have something to add to the discussion? If
it were not nonsense would it matter? Regardless of the fact that an
human being is killed you support this? do you value human life? other
than those you directly know and care about?
.
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| User: "Somesappywriter" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
04 Aug 2004 09:28:43 AM |
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On 11 Jul 2004 04:57:23 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
We're not presumptuous to know her circumstances and what's best for
the pregnant woman. Only she has the right to assess her situation and
decide for herself, whatever (legal) avenue necessary,for her
situation.
Ok the law is not really what this original post was about, more about
what/who is being aborted in the womb.
Answer: NOBODY.
.
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
16 Aug 2004 08:12:06 AM |
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Somesappywriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<kjs1h0lv2ho6045vfu3ft3lst1tpo6ekqi@4ax.com>...
On 11 Jul 2004 04:57:23 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
We're not presumptuous to know her circumstances and what's best for
the pregnant woman. Only she has the right to assess her situation and
decide for herself, whatever (legal) avenue necessary,for her
situation.
Ok the law is not really what this original post was about, more about
what/who is being aborted in the womb.
Answer: NOBODY.
There would be nothing to abort then. Or do you mean at an early stage
of development before the body has formed?
.
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| User: "-SomeSappyWriter-" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
16 Aug 2004 08:15:49 AM |
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On 16 Aug 2004 06:12:06 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
Somesappywriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<kjs1h0lv2ho6045vfu3ft3lst1tpo6ekqi@4ax.com>...
On 11 Jul 2004 04:57:23 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
We're not presumptuous to know her circumstances and what's best for
the pregnant woman. Only she has the right to assess her situation and
decide for herself, whatever (legal) avenue necessary,for her
situation.
Ok the law is not really what this original post was about, more about
what/who is being aborted in the womb.
Answer: NOBODY.
There would be nothing to abort then.
Only a pregnancy. That's what abortion is designed for. By the way, I
thought you were going to put me on ignore. Could you not resist? ;-)
.
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
17 Aug 2004 01:48:29 AM |
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-SomeSappyWriter- <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<4rc1i095rvof017qqdo29fj9sol65m9nka@4ax.com>...
On 16 Aug 2004 06:12:06 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
Somesappywriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<kjs1h0lv2ho6045vfu3ft3lst1tpo6ekqi@4ax.com>...
On 11 Jul 2004 04:57:23 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
We're not presumptuous to know her circumstances and what's best for
the pregnant woman. Only she has the right to assess her situation and
decide for herself, whatever (legal) avenue necessary,for her
situation.
Ok the law is not really what this original post was about, more about
what/who is being aborted in the womb.
Answer: NOBODY.
There would be nothing to abort then.
Only a pregnancy. That's what abortion is designed for.
And to abort a pregnancy you have to kill a human. Unless there is
some method of abortion that doesn't kill the unborn human before they
are removed from the womb? There has to be SOMEBODY growing in the
womans womb for her to be pregnant in the first place
By the way, I
thought you were going to put me on ignore. Could you not resist? ;-)
.
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| User: "-SomeSappyWriter-" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
17 Aug 2004 02:33:43 AM |
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On 16 Aug 2004 23:48:29 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
-SomeSappyWriter- <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<4rc1i095rvof017qqdo29fj9sol65m9nka@4ax.com>...
On 16 Aug 2004 06:12:06 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
Somesappywriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<kjs1h0lv2ho6045vfu3ft3lst1tpo6ekqi@4ax.com>...
On 11 Jul 2004 04:57:23 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
We're not presumptuous to know her circumstances and what's best for
the pregnant woman. Only she has the right to assess her situation and
decide for herself, whatever (legal) avenue necessary,for her
situation.
Ok the law is not really what this original post was about, more about
what/who is being aborted in the womb.
Answer: NOBODY.
There would be nothing to abort then.
Only a pregnancy. That's what abortion is designed for.
And to abort a pregnancy you have to...
Have it terminated, via legal abortion.
By the way, I thought you were going to put me on ignore. Could you
not resist? ;-)
.
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
18 Aug 2004 01:30:51 AM |
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-SomeSappyWriter- <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<35d3i0dr73e193j06famle8nd60e87quiu@4ax.com>...
On 16 Aug 2004 23:48:29 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
-SomeSappyWriter- <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<4rc1i095rvof017qqdo29fj9sol65m9nka@4ax.com>...
On 16 Aug 2004 06:12:06 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
Somesappywriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<kjs1h0lv2ho6045vfu3ft3lst1tpo6ekqi@4ax.com>...
On 11 Jul 2004 04:57:23 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
We're not presumptuous to know her circumstances and what's best for
the pregnant woman. Only she has the right to assess her situation and
decide for herself, whatever (legal) avenue necessary,for her
situation.
Ok the law is not really what this original post was about, more about
what/who is being aborted in the womb.
Answer: NOBODY.
There would be nothing to abort then.
Only a pregnancy. That's what abortion is designed for.
And to abort a pregnancy you have to...
Have it (the unborn human) terminated, via legal (or illegal) abortion.
Haha you snipped my post?
And to abort a pregnancy you have to kill a human. Unless there is
some method of abortion that doesn't kill the unborn human before they
are removed from the womb? There has to be SOMEBODY growing in the
womans womb for her to be pregnant in the first place
Why snip?
By the way, I thought you were going to put me on ignore. Could you
not resist? ;-)
Naah your worth a laugh or two. At least you have a go, unlike some in here.
.
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| User: "somewriter" |
|
| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
31 Aug 2004 05:20:18 AM |
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On 17 Aug 2004 23:30:51 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
-SomeSappyWriter- <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<35d3i0dr73e193j06famle8nd60e87quiu@4ax.com>...
On 16 Aug 2004 23:48:29 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
-SomeSappyWriter- <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<4rc1i095rvof017qqdo29fj9sol65m9nka@4ax.com>...
On 16 Aug 2004 06:12:06 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
Somesappywriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<kjs1h0lv2ho6045vfu3ft3lst1tpo6ekqi@4ax.com>...
On 11 Jul 2004 04:57:23 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
We're not presumptuous to know her circumstances and what's best for
the pregnant woman. Only she has the right to assess her situation and
decide for herself, whatever (legal) avenue necessary,for her
situation.
Ok the law is not really what this original post was about, more about
what/who is being aborted in the womb.
Answer: NOBODY.
There would be nothing to abort then.
Only a pregnancy. That's what abortion is designed for.
And to abort a pregnancy you have to...
Have it (the unborn human) terminated, via legal (or illegal) abortion.
Haha you snipped my post?
Not all of it.
.
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| User: "SomeSappyWriter" |
|
| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
11 Jul 2004 07:18:23 AM |
|
|
On 11 Jul 2004 04:57:23 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
We're not presumptuous to know her circumstances and what's best for
the pregnant woman. Only she has the right to assess her situation and
decide for herself, whatever (legal) avenue necessary,for her
situation.
Ok the law is not really what this original post was about, more about
what/who is being aborted in the womb.
The pregnancy is what is being aborted.
If the unborn is indeed human
(as it seems to be) shouldn't they have a right to exist just because
they are human?
I don't disagree that what's in the womb of a human being, is human.
In simpler terms; it's her choice.
Yes as it is the choice of someone shooting you for no reason.
Obviously there's a reason -- whether that reason is justification
under the law, that is another matter.
Is this
choice right or wrong?
If I die, it's make no difference to me. But what does this have to do
with LEGAL abortion, which does not entail the intentional killing of
human beings?
shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
Why would you want people to keep babies they don't want?
Because they are human beings,
Not until birth, you see.
the same reason I think all people
should be protected whether they are loved/unwanted or not. I don't
think they should keep their babies, I think they should not kill
their child.
Murder is a crime, didn't you know?
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
You're unrealistic. Not even families who want their children, who
battle their asses working, schooling and finding other resources to
survive, have the luxury of people willing to care for them, for
eighteen years of the children's lives. People who often preach
anti-abortion also want to eliminate deprivation-prevention social
programs that could keep these people off the street and their tummies
filled.
This is simply untrue. For a start the government pays families money
when they have children (family allowance) this is increased by number
of chilren.
By not much. What's the justification of keeping these women pregnant
if they don't want to stay pregnant, and forcing subsequent children
into abject poverty?
Their are many charities that help single mothers, struggling families
etc
Bull-fucking-*****. These servioces cater to single parents (and even
services are limited), but struggling two parents families get
absolutely fucking screwed to the wall -- they are either too well off
to qualify for emergancy assistance or they are too poor to qualify
for homeless prevention services.
not to keep them
as slaves to societies demands, of maintaining a career at all costs,
being more worried about her appearance than her unborn childs life,
ending the unborns life because of financial pressures etc etc.
And isn't it a shame that you have to select the most propagandized
reasons you think the majority of women have for commanding abortions.
You have absolutely *****-all idea why these women make that choice,
and you're not privy to that information.
well since any reason other than self defence (if the mother is going
to be killed as a direct result of the pregancy)is not a justifiable
reason for killing.
Too fucking bad. You don't get to decide what is what.
it doesn't matter why these women make this
choice. What does this choice result in? does someone die? If the
unborn can indeed learn in the womb does this make them human
Do you realize how stupid that reads?
The original post is about phoetal pshychology, anything to say or
does the topic not interest you? wouldn't you like to know more about
the unborn? so you could be sure of your views and all...better to
have your head in the sand hey? like an ostrich!
My beliefs on it are of no concern to the affected pregnant woman. She
must still decide on her own, regardless of the fantastical nonsense
you present here.
Why is it nonsense? do you have something to add to the discussion?
I already have, until you blatantly pretended it didn't exist.
.
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| User: "Damien" |
|
| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
12 Jul 2004 01:38:56 AM |
|
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SomeSappyWriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<6jb2f0t2sa3utvavcignuub5bhd0g0uuc9@4ax.com>...
On 11 Jul 2004 04:57:23 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
.
Ok...what the hell are you so afraid of? why do you assume that
abortion is the best option for women and any other alternative is out
of the question?
We're not presumptuous to know her circumstances and what's best for
the pregnant woman. Only she has the right to assess her situation and
decide for herself, whatever (legal) avenue necessary,for her
situation.
Ok the law is not really what this original post was about, more about
what/who is being aborted in the womb.
The pregnancy is what is being aborted.
which results in? the death of the unborn child.
If the unborn is indeed human
(as it seems to be) shouldn't they have a right to exist just because
they are human?
I don't disagree that what's in the womb of a human being, is human.
Ok cool, most pro abortionists will not admit that. Thats what makes
me wonder sometimes when they try to deny this fact.
In simpler terms; it's her choice.
Yes as it is the choice of someone shooting you for no reason.
Obviously there's a reason -- whether that reason is justification
under the law, that is another matter.
don't we have laws that protect us just because we are human? why is
there a double standard?
Is this
choice right or wrong?
If I die, it's make no difference to me. But what does this have to do
with LEGAL abortion, which does not entail the intentional killing of
human beings?
No difference to you, but if you were killed i'm sure your family
would want justice? Legal abortion is intentional killing of a human
being.
shouldn't we be helping women to keep their children
Why would you want people to keep babies they don't want?
Because they are human beings,
Not until birth, you see.
How so? when all of the data I've read says otherwise? why is that
everywhere the unborn is recognised as a human being unless you're a
pro abortionist. New laws now state that you can be charged with
killing this human being, unless the mother wants to abort her child.
"Human /hju:men/ adj. & n. – adj. 1 of or belonging to the genus Homo.
2 Consisting of human beings (the human race). 3 of or characteristic
of humankind as opposed to God or animals or machines, esp.
susceptible to the weakness of humankind (is only human). 4 showing
(esp. the better) qualities of man (proved to be very human) – n. a
human being. – Human being a man, woman or child of the species Homo
sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental
development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance." The
Oxford English Reference Dictionary. Oxford University Press 1995,
1996. Chief ed. Patrick Hanks, p689.
"Child n (pl.children) 1 a young human being below the age of puberty
b an unborn or newborn human being 2 one's son or daughter (at any
age) 3 (fol. By of) descendant, follower, adherent, or product of
(children of Israel; child of God; child of nature). 4 a childish
person." The Oxford English Reference Dictionary. Oxford University
Press 1995, 1996. Chief ed. Patrick Hanks, p254.
the same reason I think all people
should be protected whether they are loved/unwanted or not. I don't
think they should keep their babies, I think they should not kill
their child.
Murder is a crime, didn't you know?
Only if the mother wants her child. Murder is allowed unless the
unborn human child has takena breath. Thats the whole point.
and maintain their lives shouldn't that be the goal?
You're unrealistic. Not even families who want their children, who
battle their asses working, schooling and finding other resources to
survive, have the luxury of people willing to care for them, for
eighteen years of the children's lives. People who often preach
anti-abortion also want to eliminate deprivation-prevention social
programs that could keep these people off the street and their tummies
filled.
This is simply untrue. For a start the government pays families money
when they have children (family allowance) this is increased by number
of chilren.
By not much. What's the justification of keeping these women pregnant
if they don't want to stay pregnant, and forcing subsequent children
into abject poverty?
For the same reason we can't just go around and kill all the homeless
or impaired. Because they are human beings, and they already exist.
Just like the unborn.
Their are many charities that help single mothers, struggling families
etc
Bull-fucking-*****. These servioces cater to single parents (and even
services are limited), but struggling two parents families get
absolutely fucking screwed to the wall -- they are either too well off
to qualify for emergancy assistance or they are too poor to qualify
for homeless prevention services.
This in no way makes me want to support pro choice. You want to treat
a symptom of this struggle (abortion) and forget about the causes.
not to keep them
as slaves to societies demands, of maintaining a career at all costs,
being more worried about her appearance than her unborn childs life,
ending the unborns life because of financial pressures etc etc.
And isn't it a shame that you have to select the most propagandized
reasons you think the majority of women have for commanding abortions.
You have absolutely *****-all idea why these women make that choice,
and you're not privy to that information.
well since any reason other than self defence (if the mother is going
to be killed as a direct result of the pregancy)is not a justifiable
reason for killing.
Too fucking bad. You don't get to decide what is what.
it doesn't matter why these women make this
choice. What does this choice result in? does someone die? If the
unborn can indeed learn in the womb does this make them human
Do you realize how stupid that reads?
Dou realise how stupid your propaganda is? The equivilant of your
argument in environmental terms would be "chop down all the forests,
we don't value trees, and they're not trees anyway"
The original post is about phoetal pshychology, anything to say or
does the topic not interest you? wouldn't you like to know more about
the unborn? so you could be sure of your views and all...better to
have your head in the sand hey? like an ostrich!
My beliefs on it are of no concern to the affected pregnant woman. She
must still decide on her own, regardless of the fantastical nonsense
you present here.
Why is it nonsense? do you have something to add to the discussion?
I already have, until you blatantly pretended it didn't exist.
You said something about the unborns ability to learn in the womb?
don't you think that this display of human behaviour makes them close
to human beings even? You claim to have compassion for the mother of
the unborn child, why? they are human beings too. Why do you
discriminate?
.
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| User: "Bobs Boyfriend" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
12 Jul 2004 04:07:43 AM |
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|
In article <260fc7ca.0407112238.3408949d@posting.google.com>,
(Damien) wrote:
don't we have laws that protect us just because we are human? why is
there a double standard?
If I wanted to use your kidneys for 9 months, which laws would protect
you?
.
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| User: "Damien" |
|
| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
13 Jul 2004 01:03:44 AM |
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Bob's Boyfriend <together@wyoming.com> wrote in message news:<together-845C30.05075312072004@nntp.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
In article <260fc7ca.0407112238.3408949d@posting.google.com>,
legend_89@hotmail.com (Damien) wrote:
don't we have laws that protect us just because we are human? why is
there a double standard?
If I wanted to use your kidneys for 9 months, which laws would protect
you?
How is this relevant? I'm sure the mother gets to keep her organs lmao
.
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| User: "Somesappywriter" |
|
| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
15 Jul 2004 06:39:35 AM |
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On 11 Jul 2004 23:38:56 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
SomeSappyWriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<6jb2f0t2sa3utvavcignuub5bhd0g0uuc9@4ax.com>...
On 11 Jul 2004 04:57:23 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
[...]
I don't disagree that what's in the womb of a human being, is human.
Ok cool, most pro abortionists will not admit that.
Well, Pro-Choicers like me will. It's illogical not to.
.
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| User: "Damien" |
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| Title: Re: Babies learn in the womb |
18 Jul 2004 02:20:33 AM |
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Somesappywriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<36rcf094g0for06b1k26ot6hjq34uudg2f@4ax.com>...
On 11 Jul 2004 23:38:56 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
SomeSappyWriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message news:<6jb2f0t2sa3utvavcignuub5bhd0g0uuc9@4ax.com>...
On 11 Jul 2004 04:57:23 -0700, (Damien) wrote:
[...]
I don't disagree that what's in the womb of a human being, is human.
Ok cool, most pro abortionists will not admit that.
Well, Pro-Choicers like me will. It's illogical not to.
But you think human beings exist only at birth, even though the
organism that is born and the one in the womb are the same person. yes
person! You have always been a human being, even when you were in your
mothers womb.
.
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