| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"james g. keegan jr." |
| Date: |
29 Jan 2005 12:30:04 PM |
| Object: |
CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns |
CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns
Friday 28 January 2005
The official wall of silence surrounding the Central Intelligence
Agency's (CIA) so-called 'ghost prisoners' who are being held at secret
locations has sparked legal concerns among human rights groups that
denounce the practice as abusive.
It is not publicly known exactly how many 'ghost detainees' the CIA
is holding, who they are or where they are held, but senior Al Qaeda
figures are known to be among their ranks, including Ramzi bin al-Shaibh
and Khalid Sheik Mohammed.
Shaibh is one of the presumed coordinators behind the September 11,
2001 attacks on New York and Washington, while Mohammed was Al Qaeda's
third highest ranking member prior to his arrest.
"Ghost prisoners have had their identities and locations withheld
from relatives, the International Red Cross and even (the U.S.)
Congress," according to U.S. human rights lawyers at the Centre for
Constitutional Rights (CCR).
Although the U.S. spy agency does not disclose where it is holding
its 'ghost detainees', several locations have been leaked to the U.S.
media: Bagram air base in Afghanistan, the remote island of Diego Garcia
in the Indian Ocean, and in a restricted zone at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.
The 'ghost prisoners' at Guantánamo are not kept in the same area as
the hundreds of war on terror detainees held there by Washington whose
detentions are a matter of public record.
"The Bush administration has not wanted to prosecute them (the ghost
detainees) because it wanted to interrogate them, and frankly to be able
to torture them, or 'coercively interrogate them,' as they say," Kenneth
Roth, a director of New York-based Human Rights Watch, said.
"Unless we can get access to information about who these people are
and where they are being held, they will remain completely vulnerable to
abuse and even torture," said Rachel Meeropol, a CCR lawyer.
The CCR delivered an official request to the U.S. Government in
December, based upon a U.S. freedom of information law, seeking the
identities of the CIA prisoners, which also sought where they were being
held and under what conditions.
"We have not received any document yet," Ms Meeropol said of the
request.
However, she said the Justice Department had sent CCR a response
indicating that its request would be evaluated on an expedited basis.
Despite this, the rights' lawyer is not holding her breath.
"I think this is a case that we will likely have to litigate ... to
really get access to these documents."
According to Ms Meeropol, the cases of 'ghost prisoners' are
particularly hard to crack.
"It is really hard. If you don't know who the people are that are
being held, and you don't know how to get in touch with their family
members, how to get authorisation to represent them, that insulates the
government actions from the (legal) review.
"That is part of the problem with the secrecy" cloaking the CIA
detentions, she said.
However, she said the CCR's information request was a first step,
and that it may well be followed up by a lawsuit.
Despite the information black hole, Ms Meeropol is optimistic.
"When we first started litigating on behalf of Guantánamo detainees,
that also seemed almost un-winnable," she said.
But the U.S. Supreme Court last year gave Guantánamo war on terror
detainees the green light to challenge their detentions in the U.S.
courts, overturning a ruling by the administration of President George W
Bush.
The rights' advocate also believes, however, that information
requests by groups like the CCR may only create greater secrecy around
the CIA's holding of off-the-books prisoners.
"I fear that their solution is to move towards greater secrecy," she
said.
Jonathan Turley, a rights professor at George Washington University,
says it's doubtful such requests will shine much light on the CIA's
prisoners.
He believes more political pressure will likely be brought to bear
by the home governments of those being detained.
But he remarked - that so far - "these other countries have remained
quiet as the United States has effectively denied their citizens any
legal protection".
"There has not even been a demand for a listing of individuals held,
a demand that the United States would likely deny but that denial would
create a basis for possible action in international court," Mr. Turley
added
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/012905A.shtml
.
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| User: "Michael Calwell" |
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| Title: Re: CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns |
29 Jan 2005 12:33:42 PM |
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james g. keegan jr. wrote:
CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns
Friday 28 January 2005
If you carry on doing this I'm going to complain.
This isn't a podium for some jumped-up twerp to spam the world.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns |
29 Jan 2005 12:53:56 PM |
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In article <41fbda89$0$7770$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns
Friday 28 January 2005
If you carry on doing this I'm going to complain.
This isn't a podium for some jumped-up twerp to spam the world.
LOL! Right. This is a podium to listen to your propaganda!
.
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| User: "Michael Calwell" |
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| Title: Re: CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns |
29 Jan 2005 12:55:02 PM |
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David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <41fbda89$0$7770$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns
Friday 28 January 2005
If you carry on doing this I'm going to complain.
This isn't a podium for some jumped-up twerp to spam the world.
LOL! Right. This is a podium to listen to your propaganda!
I come here to talk about ABORTION. ABORTION. Get that? ABORTION.
ABORTION. "The most important issue that faces civilization". The Pope
ABORTION. "I am dedicated to spending the rest of my life undoing the
law that bears my name. I would like nothing more than to have this law
overturned. --Norma McCorvey, "Jane Roe" of Roe v. Wade
ABORTION. "The care of human life and happiness and not their
destruction is the first and only legitimate object of good government."
--Thomas Jefferson
ABORTION. "No one wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a
porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal, caught in a trap, wants to
gnaw off its own leg. Abortion is a tragic attempt to escape a desperate
situation by an act of violence and self-loss." --Frederica
Matthewes-Green in Real Choices
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns |
29 Jan 2005 01:27:26 PM |
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In article <41fbdf89$0$26014$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk>, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <41fbda89$0$7770$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns
Friday 28 January 2005
If you carry on doing this I'm going to complain.
This isn't a podium for some jumped-up twerp to spam the world.
LOL! Right. This is a podium to listen to your propaganda!
I come here to talk about ABORTION. ABORTION. Get that? ABORTION.
ABORTION. "The most important issue that faces civilization". The Pope
ABORTION. "I am dedicated to spending the rest of my life undoing the
law that bears my name. I would like nothing more than to have this law
overturned. --Norma McCorvey, "Jane Roe" of Roe v. Wade
ABORTION. "The care of human life and happiness and not their
destruction is the first and only legitimate object of good government."
--Thomas Jefferson
ABORTION. "No one wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a
porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal, caught in a trap, wants to
gnaw off its own leg. Abortion is a tragic attempt to escape a desperate
situation by an act of violence and self-loss." --Frederica
Matthewes-Green in Real Choices
In other words, you want to spin your tires. Norma McCorvey is just
another pro-life nut who wants to tell others how to live their lives.
Amazingly, Frederica Matthewes-Green is even worse. Apparently YOU
need others to tell you how to live. Most people don't.
What insight do you have for us that we haven't heard before on
abortion? Want to tell us how the Pope, who leads an organization of
pedophiles, cares so much for children?
Want to tell us how you think poor women should give birth to poor
children and how you will then pull the rug out from under liberal
attempts to help them out and get them education and healthier
conditions?
Tell us, Calwell, what could you possibly offer today?
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns |
29 Jan 2005 01:53:54 PM |
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Michael Calwell <michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
David W. Barnes wrote:
Michael Calwell
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns
Friday 28 January 2005
If you carry on doing this I'm going to complain.
This isn't a podium for some jumped-up twerp to spam the world.
LOL! Right. This is a podium to listen to your propaganda!
I come here to talk about ABORTION. ABORTION. Get that? ABORTION.
And instead you're playing net cop, trying to control what other
people post.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns |
29 Jan 2005 01:17:12 PM |
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Michael Calwell <michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote in news:41fbdf89$0
$26014$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:
David W. Barnes wrote:
In article <41fbda89$0$7770$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, Michael Calwell
<michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote:
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns
Friday 28 January 2005
If you carry on doing this I'm going to complain.
This isn't a podium for some jumped-up twerp to spam the world.
LOL! Right. This is a podium to listen to your propaganda!
I come here to talk about ABORTION. ABORTION.
you are lying since you repeatedly cmplain about abortion-related posts.
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| User: "* US *" |
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| Title: Re: CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns |
30 Jan 2005 12:36:43 PM |
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:55:02 +0000, Michael Calwell <michael.calwell@btopenworld.com>
wrote:
...about ABORTION...
You must really want a lot more of that to support Bush.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns |
29 Jan 2005 01:10:17 PM |
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Michael Calwell <michael.calwell@btopenworld.com> wrote in news:41fbda89
$0$7770$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
james g. keegan jr. wrote:
CIA's 'Ghost Prisoners' Spark Rights Concerns
Friday 28 January 2005
The official wall of silence surrounding the Central Intelligence
Agency's (CIA) so-called 'ghost prisoners' who are being held at secret
locations has sparked legal concerns among human rights groups that
denounce the practice as abusive.
It is not publicly known exactly how many 'ghost detainees' the CIA
is holding, who they are or where they are held, but senior Al Qaeda
figures are known to be among their ranks, including Ramzi bin al-Shaibh
and Khalid Sheik Mohammed.
Shaibh is one of the presumed coordinators behind the September 11,
2001 attacks on New York and Washington, while Mohammed was Al Qaeda's
third highest ranking member prior to his arrest.
"Ghost prisoners have had their identities and locations withheld
from relatives, the International Red Cross and even (the U.S.)
Congress," according to U.S. human rights lawyers at the Centre for
Constitutional Rights (CCR).
Although the U.S. spy agency does not disclose where it is holding
its 'ghost detainees', several locations have been leaked to the U.S.
media: Bagram air base in Afghanistan, the remote island of Diego Garcia
in the Indian Ocean, and in a restricted zone at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.
The 'ghost prisoners' at Guantánamo are not kept in the same area as
the hundreds of war on terror detainees held there by Washington whose
detentions are a matter of public record.
"The Bush administration has not wanted to prosecute them (the ghost
detainees) because it wanted to interrogate them, and frankly to be able
to torture them, or 'coercively interrogate them,' as they say," Kenneth
Roth, a director of New York-based Human Rights Watch, said.
"Unless we can get access to information about who these people are
and where they are being held, they will remain completely vulnerable to
abuse and even torture," said Rachel Meeropol, a CCR lawyer.
The CCR delivered an official request to the U.S. Government in
December, based upon a U.S. freedom of information law, seeking the
identities of the CIA prisoners, which also sought where they were being
held and under what conditions.
"We have not received any document yet," Ms Meeropol said of the
request.
However, she said the Justice Department had sent CCR a response
indicating that its request would be evaluated on an expedited basis.
Despite this, the rights' lawyer is not holding her breath.
"I think this is a case that we will likely have to litigate ... to
really get access to these documents."
According to Ms Meeropol, the cases of 'ghost prisoners' are
particularly hard to crack.
"It is really hard. If you don't know who the people are that are
being held, and you don't know how to get in touch with their family
members, how to get authorisation to represent them, that insulates the
government actions from the (legal) review.
"That is part of the problem with the secrecy" cloaking the CIA
detentions, she said.
However, she said the CCR's information request was a first step,
and that it may well be followed up by a lawsuit.
Despite the information black hole, Ms Meeropol is optimistic.
"When we first started litigating on behalf of Guantánamo detainees,
that also seemed almost un-winnable," she said.
But the U.S. Supreme Court last year gave Guantánamo war on terror
detainees the green light to challenge their detentions in the U.S.
courts, overturning a ruling by the administration of President George W
Bush.
The rights' advocate also believes, however, that information
requests by groups like the CCR may only create greater secrecy around
the CIA's holding of off-the-books prisoners.
"I fear that their solution is to move towards greater secrecy," she
said.
Jonathan Turley, a rights professor at George Washington University,
says it's doubtful such requests will shine much light on the CIA's
prisoners.
He believes more political pressure will likely be brought to bear
by the home governments of those being detained.
But he remarked - that so far - "these other countries have remained
quiet as the United States has effectively denied their citizens any
legal protection".
"There has not even been a demand for a listing of individuals held,
a demand that the United States would likely deny but that denial would
create a basis for possible action in international court," Mr. Turley
added
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/012905A.shtml
If you carry on doing this I'm going to complain.
address your complaints to and, of course, cc
abuse@zen.co.uk in fact, you'd make less of a fool of yourself if you
contact your wn provider first. that may have some people there who
would be willing to instruct you.
This isn't a podium for some jumped-up twerp to spam the world.
has someone complained about your sick, religious rants?
.
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