| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"papa jack" |
| Date: |
27 May 2004 05:31:11 PM |
| Object: |
Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
Of course, the radical liberals have never let such a
minor thing as majority beliefs get in their way.
What do you think this is, a democracy? 8^)
.
|
|
| User: "Shawn Hearn" |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
27 May 2004 09:03:09 PM |
|
|
In article <bd9f1f6b.0405271431.370d1d06@posting.google.com>,
(papa jack) wrote:
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
Where private medical decisions are concerned, I do not see
where the view of the "public" is relevant. Does Michican
hold a vote to see if its okay to allow heart and liver
surgery? Why should complete strangers be able to tell a
pregnant woman how to manage her pregnancy? I just don't get
it. We are either a free people, or we are not. Our country
was founded on the ideal that the majority should never have
the authority to exact tyrany over a minority.
.
|
|
|
| User: "papa jack" |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
29 May 2004 09:06:11 PM |
|
|
Shawn Hearn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote
in message news:<srhi-A3708E.22030927052004@news-60.giganews.com>...
papajack37@sbcglobal.net (papa jack) wrote:
=========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
Where private medical decisions are concerned, I do not
see where the view of the "public" is relevant....
=========================================================================
Papa Jack remarks:
I agree, Shawn. But, what in the world do partial-birth
abortions have to do with "medical decisions."
If a Mafia hit man call his assinations medical procedures,
would that impress you? Okay, so when you try to pass off
the killing of healthy (often viable) unborn children as
a "medical decision" no one is fooled.
Medical decisions are about healing and curing -- not
about killing.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
...Does Michican hold a vote to see if its okay to allow
heart and liver surgery?...
=========================================================================
Papa Jack replies:
Nope. Good reason -- those are legitimate medical
procedures to help heal or cure the patient.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
...Why should complete strangers be able to tell a
pregnant woman how to manage her pregnancy?...
=========================================================================
Papa Jack responds:
No one wants to tell women how to "manage" their
pregnancies. What folks want to legislate is the
barbaric practice of inducing labor, poking a hole
in the skull of a half-delivered fetus, sucking
out the brains with a vacuum, and crushing the
skull with forcips. That's not "managing a preg-
nancy" -- that's homicide.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
...I just don't get it. We are either a free people,
or we are not. Our country was founded on the ideal
that the majority should never have the authority to
exact tyrany over a minority.
=========================================================================
Papa Jack states:
You're correct -- you really don't get it.
There's a BIG difference between civilized freedom
and the choas of anarchy.
I suggest you read Thomas Paine's _Rights of Man_. For a
taste, go to:
From these premisses two or three certain conclusions will follow:
First, That every civil right grows out of a natural right; or, in
other words, is a natural right exchanged.
Secondly, That civil power properly considered as such is made up of
the aggregate of that class of the natural rights of man, which
becomes defective in the individual in point of power, and answers not
his purpose, but when collected to a focus becomes competent to the
Purpose of every one.
Thirdly, That the power produced from the aggregate of natural rights,
imperfect in power in the individual, cannot be applied to invade the
natural rights which are retained in the individual, and in which the
power to execute is as perfect as the right itself.
We have now, in a few words, traced man from a natural individual to a
member of society, and shown, or endeavoured to show, the quality of
the natural rights retained, and of those which are exchanged for
civil rights.
.
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|
| User: "Shawn Hearn" |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
31 May 2004 11:40:43 AM |
|
|
In article <bd9f1f6b.0405291806.7eb75900@posting.google.com>,
(papa jack) wrote:
Shawn Hearn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote
in message news:<srhi-A3708E.22030927052004@news-60.giganews.com>...
(papa jack) wrote:
=========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
Where private medical decisions are concerned, I do not
see where the view of the "public" is relevant....
=========================================================================
Papa Jack remarks:
I agree, Shawn. But, what in the world do partial-birth
abortions have to do with "medical decisions."
Abortion at any point in a pregnancy IS A MEDICAL decision.
What else would it be, hop scotch?
If a Mafia hit man call his assinations medical procedures,
would that impress you? Okay, so when you try to pass off
the killing of healthy (often viable) unborn children as
a "medical decision" no one is fooled.
Only if the object of that procedure offered her prior consent
and the mafia guy with the gun was a licensed doctor. Let me know
what that happens, then we can have a serious talk on this subject.
Medical decisions are about healing and curing -- not
about killing.
True, but that is what abortions are all about. You can spin
it any way you want, but an abortion (no matter when it occurs)
is based on a conscious decision between a woman and her doctor,
not some mafia hit man.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
...Does Michican hold a vote to see if its okay to allow
heart and liver surgery?...
=========================================================================
Papa Jack replies:
Nope. Good reason -- those are legitimate medical
procedures to help heal or cure the patient.
So are abortions. You pro-liars attempt to spin it all sorts of other
ways, but as long as an abortion is done in a safe and licensed clinic
or hospital under the care of licensed medical practitioners, it is
completely legal and should always remain so.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
...Why should complete strangers be able to tell a
pregnant woman how to manage her pregnancy?...
=========================================================================
Papa Jack responds:
No one wants to tell women how to "manage" their
pregnancies. What folks want to legislate is the
barbaric practice of inducing labor, poking a hole
in the skull of a half-delivered fetus, sucking
out the brains with a vacuum, and crushing the
skull with forcips. That's not "managing a preg-
nancy" -- that's homicide.
You sure seem intent on telling women how to manage their lives; your
posts attest to that fact quite clearly. Some medical procedures do
look horific to those outside the medical field. Knee surgery, for
example, is a horrendously gorry procedure (in my opinion) to see and
it results in great pain to the patient, yet we do not outlaw knee
surgery.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
...I just don't get it. We are either a free people,
or we are not. Our country was founded on the ideal
that the majority should never have the authority to
exact tyrany over a minority.
=========================================================================
Papa Jack states:
You're correct -- you really don't get it.
There's a BIG difference between civilized freedom
and the choas of anarchy.
Yup, and what you are supporting is the chaos of anarchy. Do you
even know what anarchy really is? Apparantly not. This is why all
you really do, in effect, is support slavery.
I suggest you read Thomas Paine's _Rights of Man_. For a
taste, go to:
I have read Paines writings many times. You might try doing so again,
but this time, read for comprehension. When you are done, read the
Constitution and the amendments, especially Amendment XIII, the one
that outlawed slavery. Read for comprehension.
Now, if partial birth abortion is so horrendous and you claim that there
is no medical need for it, and that the entity being aborted is a viable
baby, then why don't you offer your services to women who feel they need
that procedure to volunteer to take the baby off their hands and raise
it as your own?
Oh, and how many starving parentless children do you help feed?
.
|
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|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
29 May 2004 09:32:50 PM |
|
|
papa jackass <papajack37@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Shawn Hearn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote
Where private medical decisions are concerned, I do not
see where the view of the "public" is relevant....
I agree, Shawn. But, what in the world do partial-birth
abortions have to do with "medical decisions."
Jackass ASSumes that everybody is as immoral and bloodthristy as he
is. He cannot grasp the notion of a needed late-term abortion.
If a Mafia hit man call his assinations medical procedures,
Jackass spews hate.
...Why should complete strangers be able to tell a
pregnant woman how to manage her pregnancy?...
No one wants to tell women how to "manage" their
pregnancies.
Jackass lies in order to avoid the question.
What folks want to legislate is the
barbaric practice of inducing labor, poking a hole
You cannot even get your facts straight and yet you think that your
ignorance and hatred are justification enough to force women to suffer.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
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|
| User: "papa jack" |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
29 May 2004 09:12:39 PM |
|
|
Shawn Hearn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote
in message news:<srhi-A3708E.22030927052004@news-60.giganews.com>...
papajack37@sbcglobal.net (papa jack) wrote:
=========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
Where private medical decisions are concerned, I do not
see where the view of the "public" is relevant....
=========================================================================
Papa Jack remarks:
I agree, Shawn. But, what in the world do partial-birth
abortions have to do with "medical decisions."
If a Mafia hit man call his assinations medical procedures,
would that impress you? Okay, so when you try to pass off
the killing of healthy (often viable) unborn children as
a "medical decision" no one is fooled.
Medical decisions are about healing and curing -- not
about killing.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
...Does Michican hold a vote to see if its okay to allow
heart and liver surgery?...
=========================================================================
Papa Jack replies:
Nope. Good reason -- those are legitimate medical
procedures to help heal or cure the patient.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
...Why should complete strangers be able to tell a
pregnant woman how to manage her pregnancy?...
=========================================================================
Papa Jack responds:
No one wants to tell women how to "manage" their
pregnancies. What folks want to legislate is the
barbaric practice of inducing labor, poking a hole
in the skull of a half-delivered fetus, sucking
out the brains with a vacuum, and crushing the
skull with forcips. That's not "managing a preg-
nancy" -- that's homicide.
=========================================================================
Shawn Hearn wrote:
...I just don't get it. We are either a free people,
or we are not. Our country was founded on the ideal
that the majority should never have the authority to
exact tyrany over a minority.
=========================================================================
Papa Jack states:
You're correct -- you really don't get it.
There's a BIG difference between civilized freedom
and the choas of anarchy.
I suggest you read Thomas Paine's _Rights of Man_. For a
taste, go to:
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/rights_of_man/part1.html
"From these premisses two or three certain conclusions
will follow:
First, That every civil right grows out of a natural
right; or, in other words, is a natural right exchanged.
Secondly, That civil power properly considered as such
is made up of the aggregate of that class of the natural
rights of man, which becomes defective in the individual
in point of power, and answers not his purpose, but when
collected to a focus becomes competent to the Purpose of
every one.
Thirdly, That the power produced from the aggregate of
natural rights, imperfect in power in the individual,
cannot be applied to invade the natural rights which are
retained in the individual, and in which the power to
execute is as perfect as the right itself.
We have now, in a few words, traced man from a natural
individual to a member of society, and shown, or endea-
voured to show, the quality of the natural rights retained,
and of those which are exchanged for civil rights...."
.
|
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| User: "Paul Anderson" |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
27 May 2004 06:25:13 PM |
|
|
On 27 May 2004 15:31:11 -0700, (papa jack)
wrote:
.....
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
.....
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
Of course, the radical liberals have never let such a
minor thing as majority beliefs get in their way.
What do you think this is, a democracy? 8^)
Michigan has 6.8 million registered voters. Those 446,000 signatures
represent less than 6.6 percent of the registered voters. Seems that
the *MINORITY* is again trying to bypass democracy.
.
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| User: "Osmo Ronkanen" |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
29 May 2004 04:52:42 AM |
|
|
(Paul Anderson) wrote in message news:<40b67824.1233444@news.la.sbcglobal.net>...
On 27 May 2004 15:31:11 -0700, (papa jack)
wrote:
....
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
....
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
Of course, the radical liberals have never let such a
minor thing as majority beliefs get in their way.
What do you think this is, a democracy? 8^)
Michigan has 6.8 million registered voters. Those 446,000 signatures
represent less than 6.6 percent of the registered voters. Seems that
the *MINORITY* is again trying to bypass democracy.
Sounds like a strange form of democracy when only one side gets to vote.
How about in the November if over a million voters decide to support
Bush he is e-elected. Nobody needs an opposition which just confuses
the minds of people. One People, one Choice! :-)
Osmo
.
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| User: "papa jack" |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
28 May 2004 08:50:25 AM |
|
|
elcoyote@netzero.net (Paul Anderson) wrote
in message news:<40b67824.1233444@news.la.sbcglobal.net>...
papajack37@sbcglobal.net (papa jack) wrote:
========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
Of course, the radical liberals have never let such a
minor thing as majority beliefs get in their way.
What do you think this is, a democracy? 8^)
========================================================================
El Coyote wrote:
Michigan has 6.8 million registered voters. Those 446,000
signatures represent less than 6.6 percent of the registered
voters. Seems that the *MINORITY* is again trying to bypass
democracy.
========================================================================
Papa Jack explained:
Nope, what they're trying to override is the Governor's
earlier veto. Both houses of the Michigan legislature
have repeatedly passed this legislation only to have
the Governor veto it. This people's override provision
of the Michigan Constitution allows the public to
bypass the Governor's veto when they disagree.
Notice that the Pro-Lifers got twice as many signatures
as required by their constitution.
.
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|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
28 May 2004 10:28:14 AM |
|
|
papa jackass <papajack37@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
elcoyote@netzero.net (Paul Anderson) wrote
Michigan has 6.8 million registered voters. Those 446,000
signatures represent less than 6.6 percent of the registered
voters. Seems that the *MINORITY* is again trying to bypass
democracy.
Nope, what they're trying to override is the Governor's
earlier veto.
A governer elected by a majority of the voters.
Both houses of the Michigan legislature
have repeatedly passed this legislation only to have
the Governor veto it.
A governer elected by a majority of the voters.
This people's override provision
Signed by a tiny minority of voters.
of the Michigan Constitution allows the public to
bypass the Governor's veto when they disagree.
6.6% bypassing democracy.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Paul Anderson" |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
27 May 2004 06:18:49 PM |
|
|
On 27 May 2004 15:31:11 -0700, (papa jack)
wrote:
......
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
.....
Which proves that what the Pro-Lifers call a partial birth abortion is
*not* a late term abortion -- since late term abortions are already
illegal in Michigan. (Papa Jack might not remember supporting the
parents taking their teenage daughter from Michigan to Kansas to
bypass that law and kill a probably healthy roughly 30-week fetus.)
.
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| User: "Adam H." |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
27 May 2004 05:34:55 PM |
|
|
On 27 May 2004 15:31:11 -0700, (papa jack)
wrote:
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
Of course, the radical liberals have never let such a
minor thing as majority beliefs get in their way.
What do you think this is, a democracy? 8^)
Only idiots think the US is a democracy, PJ. Funny how it wasn't a
'democracy' when Gore got more votes than Bush, but suddenly it is
when it's about something you want.
--
Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to
evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of,
the lack of evidence.
- Richard Dawkins
.
|
|
|
| User: "papa jack" |
|
| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
28 May 2004 08:33:22 AM |
|
|
Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com> wrote
in message news:<n6rcb092th10nd81gk37oh27rb1kmaqt01@4ax.com>...
papajack37@sbcglobal.net (papa jack) wrote:
==========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
Of course, the radical liberals have never let such a
minor thing as majority beliefs get in their way.
What do you think this is, a democracy? 8^)
==========================================================================
Adam H. wrote:
Only idiots think the US is a democracy, PJ. Funny how it wasn't a
'democracy' when Gore got more votes than Bush, but suddenly it is
when it's about something you want.
==========================================================================
Papa Jack smiled:
What part of the Constitution was violated by George W.
Bush's election?
When are you going to quit whinning?
Go to:
http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/constitution_transcript.html
Article II, Section 1:
"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the
Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of
Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators
and Representatives to which the State may be
entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or
Representative, or Person holding an Office of
Trust or Profit under the United States, shall
be appointed an Elector.
Go to:
http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/constitution_amendments_11-27.html#12
AMENDMENT XII
Note: A portion of Article II, Section 1 of the
Constitution was superseded by the 12th amendment.
"The Electors shall meet in their respective states
and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President,
one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of
the same state with themselves; they shall name in
their ballots the person voted for as President, and
in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-
President, and they shall make distinct lists of all
persons voted for as President, and of all persons
voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of
votes for each, which lists they shall sign and
certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the
government of the United States, directed to the
President of the Senate; -- the President of the
Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and
House of Representatives, open all the certificates
and the votes shall then be counted; -- THE PERSON
HAVING THE GREATEST NUMBER OF VOTES FOR PRESIDENT,
SHALL BE THE PRESIDENT, if such number be a majority
of the whole number of Electors appointed..."
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| User: "Paul Anderson" |
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| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
28 May 2004 11:50:16 AM |
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On 28 May 2004 06:33:22 -0700, (papa jack)
wrote:
.....
Papa Jack smiled:
What part of the Constitution was violated by George W.
Bush's election?
.....
AMENDMENT XII
.....
"The Electors shall meet in their respective states
and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President,
one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of
the same state with themselves.....
Which person was not an inhabitant of Texas -- the Governor of Texas
or the man who had his Homestead in Texas?
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| User: "Bert Bishop" |
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| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
28 May 2004 07:37:51 AM |
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papa jack wrote:
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
Of course, the radical liberals have never let such a
minor thing as majority beliefs get in their way.
What majority? Three time the people themselves have voted (in
statewide referena)on the "pro-life" named "partial-birth-abortion" and
three times the people have defeated the "pro-life" position on this
issue.
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| User: "papa jack" |
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| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
10 Jun 2004 12:20:40 PM |
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Bert Bishop <bert_bishop@eudroamail.com> wrote
in message news:<40B7329F.38E784EE@eudroamail.com>...
papa jack wrote:
==========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
Of course, the radical liberals have never let such a
minor thing as majority beliefs get in their way.
==========================================================================
Bert Bishop
What majority? Three time the people themselves have
voted (in statewide referena)on the "pro-life" named
"partial-birth-abortion" and three times the people
have defeated the "pro-life" position on this issue.
==========================================================================
Papa Jack noted:
It looks like they'll get another chance.
On Jun 9, 2004, the AP posted an article titled: "Mich.
Lawmakers OK Ban on Abortion Method." Go to:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040609/ap_on_re_us/michigan_abortion_bill_2
___________________________________________________________________________
Extracts:
"The Legislature voted for the second year in a
row Wednesday to ban a specific abortion method,
this time bolstered by a citizens petition drive
that prevents Gov. Jennifer Granholm from vetoing
the measure.
"The legislation would outlaw a procedure referred
to by critics as partial-birth abortion and by med-
ical organizations as intact dilation and extraction.
The House approved the measure 74-28, the Senate 23-12.
[...]
"Supporters said the bill is needed to stop the pro-
cedure, which involves partially removing a fetus
from the womb and puncturing or crushing its skull.
[...]
___________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
This is an interesting experiment in the democratic
process.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
.
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| User: "david" |
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| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
11 Jun 2004 01:13:02 PM |
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(papa jack) wrote in message news:<bd9f1f6b.0406100920.627fae1@posting.google.com>...
Bert Bishop <bert_bishop@eudroamail.com> wrote
in message news:<40B7329F.38E784EE@eudroamail.com>...
papa jack wrote:
==========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
Of course, the radical liberals have never let such a
minor thing as majority beliefs get in their way.
==========================================================================
Bert Bishop
What majority? Three time the people themselves have
voted (in statewide referena)on the "pro-life" named
"partial-birth-abortion" and three times the people
have defeated the "pro-life" position on this issue.
==========================================================================
Papa Jack noted:
It looks like they'll get another chance.
On Jun 9, 2004, the AP posted an article titled: "Mich.
Lawmakers OK Ban on Abortion Method." Go to:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040609/ap_on_re_us/michigan_abortion_bill_2
___________________________________________________________________________
Extracts:
"The Legislature voted for the second year in a
row Wednesday to ban a specific abortion method,
this time bolstered by a citizens petition drive
that prevents Gov. Jennifer Granholm from vetoing
the measure.
"The legislation would outlaw a procedure referred
to by critics as partial-birth abortion and by med-
ical organizations as intact dilation and extraction.
The House approved the measure 74-28, the Senate 23-12.
[...]
"Supporters said the bill is needed to stop the pro-
cedure, which involves partially removing a fetus
from the womb and puncturing or crushing its skull.
[...]
___________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
This is an interesting experiment in the democratic
process.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
Actually, the people of Michigan won't vote on this measure in the
November election. This law will thankfully take effect in the Spring
of 2005 without the Governor's signature.
.
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| User: "david" |
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| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
11 Jun 2004 01:10:46 PM |
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Bert Bishop <bert_bishop@eudroamail.com> wrote in message news:<40B7329F.38E784EE@eudroamail.com>...
papa jack wrote:
On May 27, 2004, the Detroit Free Press posted an
article by Dawson Bell titled: "Abortion Bill Headed
Back to State Legislature." Go to:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20005_20040527.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"For the third time in a decade Michigan is on
the verge of banning the abortion procedure its
opponents call partial birth abortion.
"A state elections panel Thursday morning certified
more than 446,000 signatures on petitions designed
to enact the ban without Gov. Jennifer Granholm's
signature.
"The campaign, called the People's Override, needed
signatures from 254,206 registered voters to send
the veto-proof law to the Legislature.
[...]
"The ACLU will file a third lawsuit as soon as the
Legislature acts on the petitions certified Thursday,
its representatives said. Legislative leaders said
they expect to do take a vote, and expect easy
approval, in early June."
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
Of course, the radical liberals have never let such a
minor thing as majority beliefs get in their way.
What majority? Three time the people themselves have voted (in
statewide referena)on the "pro-life" named "partial-birth-abortion" and
three times the people have defeated the "pro-life" position on this
issue.
Bert Bishop has no clue what he is talking about. The people of
Michigan have never voted any partial-birth abortion bill on
referendum. This is simply a lie or just plain ignorance. Two
previous bill regarding PBA were passed with overwhelming majorities
in the Michigan House and Senate and signed by Governor Engler and
were found to be unconstitutional because of Carhart v. Stenberg.
Notice how Bert provides no evidence or link.
In 1987, the people of Michigan voted by a margin of 57% to 43% in a
statewide referendum to stop tax payer dollars from paying for
abortions in Michigan - this law took effect at the end of 1988. In
1988 there were 46,747 abortions in Michigan - in 1989 there were
36,557.
In 1972, the people of Michigan voted on a referendum that proposed
legalize abortion in the first 20 weeks - this referendum failed by a
vote of 60% to 40%.
For more information, check out-
www.rtl.org/html/medicaid-funded_abortions.html
Another note- pro-choicers may not understand how hard it is to gather
signatures (especially with an all volunteer signature gathering
force) but in Michigan other attempts this year to gather signatures
(affirmative action ban, and a gay marriage ban) will probably not be
able to gather enough signatures - in the 6 month time frame -
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Citizens Overide Governor's Veto |
27 May 2004 11:44:30 PM |
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papa jackass <papajack37@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
We continue to see more and more impressive evidence
of how strongly the general public favors the partial-
birth abortion bans at both the state and federal levels.
We saw how many people were convinced that Jews were evil and
needed to be eliminated.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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