Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson

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Topic:	Science > Abortion
User:	"Papa Jack"
Date:	02 Nov 2003 09:48:55 AM
Object:	Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson

On November 2, 2003, the Associated Press, posted an
article titled: "Coroner: Drug-induced abortion led
to teen's death." Go to:
http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/7707637p-8647301c.html
____________________________________________________________________
"The Alameda County Coroner's Office has
confirmed that a therapeutic drug-induced
abortion led to the death of an 18-year-old
Livermore woman who died Sept. 17.
"According to the autopsy report released
Friday, Holly Patterson died of septic
shock caused by endomyometritis, an inflam-
mation of the uterus. The report says that
endomyometritis was caused by a drug-induced
abortion.
"Endomyometritris is an infection of the womb
that more typically is a complication of a
cesarean section and septic shock is an often
fatal collapse of blood pressure caused by
infection.
"Although Patterson died just days after
initiating an abortion with the drug RU-486,
the controversial abortion medication was not
specifically mentioned in the teen's Cause of
Death report.
"The finding is consistent with what doctors
at Valley Care Medical Center in Pleasanton
told Holly's father, Monty Patterson, in the
hours after her death Sept. 17.
"This confirms what we believed is the cause
of Holly's death," said Helen Wilson-Patterson,
in an e-mail to The Associated Press.
"The 18-year-old was given the abortion pill a
week earlier by a Planned Parenthood Clinic in
Hayward, where she sought it without the know-
ledge of her father. When she fell ill Sept. 14,
her boyfriend rushed her to Valley Care Medical
Center, where she reportedly was told that her
pain and bleeding were normal, and she was sent
home with painkillers.
"She returned to the hospital three days later,
on Sept. 17, and died.
"The teenager's death has become a cause celebre
among anti-abortion groups, though her grief-
stricken father has not taken a political position.
"I am not putting out a pro-choice or pro-life
stand," he explained. "We need to know that drugs
are safe, and if they are not safe, do something
about it."
"Patterson also said he and his wife feel it is
their duty to inform other teenagers, young
adults and parents about the "grave dangers" of
the drug.
"RU-486 is a drug that causes a non-surgical
abortion sometimes compared to a miscarriage."
____________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
Let's review -- what did MINXS tell us, in part:
"...There is no reason why doctors who haven't
had training in surgical abortion techniques
or even nurse practioners and physician assis-
tants can't dispense mifepristone. This
increases the number of people who can perform
abortions and could even increase the number
of abortion providers...."
So, MINXS' solution to the problems posed by Holly
Patterson's death is to allow many less qualified
abortion clinic workers to hand out more mifepris-
tone! You can see the mind-set of radicals like
MINXS. Nothing is more important than increasing
the numbers of unborn children slaughtered in
chop shops. If a few young women like Holly Pat-
terson happen to die along the way, well that's
just too bad.
One part of the answer should be for the family to
initiate a multi-million dollar lawsuit against
Planned Parenthood. Once PP loses a few such suits,
maybe they'll start paying more attention to the
health and welfare of their clients.
.

User: "M is for Malapert"
Title: Re: Coroner Doesn't Blame RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	02 Nov 2003 03:26:13 PM

"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0311020748.29d72889@posting.google.com...

On November 2, 2003, the Associated Press, posted an
article titled: "Coroner: Drug-induced abortion led
to teen's death." Go to:

http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/7707637p-8647301c.html
"According to the autopsy report released
Friday, Holly Patterson died of septic
shock caused by endomyometritis, an inflam-
mation of the uterus. The report says that
endomyometritis was caused by a drug-induced
abortion.

Yup, just as we all suspected. This also occurs after miscarriage,
childbirth, from using tampons, and so forth.

"Although Patterson died just days after
initiating an abortion with the drug RU-486,
the controversial abortion medication was not
specifically mentioned in the teen's Cause of
Death report.

In other words, Coroner Doesn't Blame RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson.

"The 18-year-old was given the abortion pill a
week earlier by a Planned Parenthood Clinic in
Hayward, where she sought it without the know-
ledge of her father. When she fell ill Sept. 14,
her boyfriend rushed her to Valley Care Medical
Center, where she reportedly was told that her
pain and bleeding were normal, and she was sent
home with painkillers.

Bingo. The only question now is whether that was the right thing to do.
Should she have been started on a course of antibiotics as well? Should she
have been given an ultrasound and a D&C to control the bleeding? Those
questions will be addressed and answered in the lawsuit her parents will
undoubtedly file against the hospital.
At least we know, now, that she apparently did tell the hospital she had had
an abortion. She was not too ashamed to inform them.

"I am not putting out a pro-choice or pro-life
stand," he explained. "We need to know that drugs
are safe, and if they are not safe, do something
about it."

But it has nothing to do with the drug used to induce the miscarriage. The
same thing could have happened after a surgical abortion or a natural
miscarriage. What we *really* need to know - or rather, what the family and
other local residents and public agencies need to know - is whether or not
the emergency room gave her appropriate aftercare. Was she a victim of
"patient dumping", as the investigation by Medicare is asking?

Let's review -- what did MINXS tell us, in part:

"...There is no reason why doctors who haven't
had training in surgical abortion techniques
or even nurse practioners and physician assis-
tants can't dispense mifepristone. This
increases the number of people who can perform
abortions and could even increase the number
of abortion providers...."

So, MINXS' solution to the problems posed by Holly
Patterson's death is to allow many less qualified
abortion clinic workers to hand out more mifepris-
tone!

The only problem posed by Holly Patterson's death is whether or not the
hospital emergency room followed up appropriately. Miscarriages happen all
the time - American women have, on average, 0.5 spontaneous miscarriages and
0.7 induced miscarriages ("abortions") per lifetime. Hospital emergency
rooms are where most women rightly go when they experience complications, so
correct treatment standards must be established and followed.
Use your common sense, Papa Jack. If a woman has a spontaneous abortion, is
she supposed to go to Planned Parenthood if she experiences complications?
Of course not. So it's just stupid to behave, or think, or legislate as if
women having induced abortions are going there with complications.

You can see the mind-set of radicals like
MINXS. Nothing is more important than increasing
the numbers of unborn children slaughtered in
chop shops. If a few young women like Holly Pat-
terson happen to die along the way, well that's
just too bad.

Projection: "A defense mechanism in which the individual attributes to other
people impulses and traits that he himself has but cannot accept. It is
especially likely to occur when the person lacks insight into his own
impulses and traits."
Remember, whatever you hear a right-winger accusing someone else of wanting
to do, that is what the right-winger wants to do himself.

One part of the answer should be for the family to
initiate a multi-million dollar lawsuit against
Planned Parenthood.

I'm sure PP will be named in the lawsuit, as I said earlier. Every
organization with deep pockets will be named that can be, no matter how
remote its connection with Holly's death, so that the family can obtain the
largest possible settlement. But the real focus will be on the Pleasanton
hospital and whether or not its staff treated Holly's miscarriage
complications correctly.
.

User: "Me"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	04 Nov 2003 06:34:58 AM

In article <6f9e1b49.0311020748.29d72889@posting.google.com>,

(Papa Jack) wrote:

If the RU-486 drug was directly related to the cause of the woman's
death, then why was it not mentioned in the coroner's report?
PJ, by the way, death as a result of abortion will happen more often if
you ever get your way and abortion is illegalized. So get used to it.
In fact, isn't this the kind of news that should bring a smile to your
face? After all, a baby-killer died as a result of killing a baby,
right? Come clean! You know you take great joy at hearing about such
stories! One less baby-killer, right?
.

User: "Papa Jack"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	04 Nov 2003 06:55:40 PM

Me <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<srhi-3D7968.07345804112003@comcast.ash.giganews.com>...

In article <6f9e1b49.0311020748.29d72889@posting.google.com>,
papajack@stic.net (Papa Jack) wrote:

======================================================================

Papa Jack cited:
On November 2, 2003, the Associated Press, posted an
article titled: "Coroner: Drug-induced abortion led
to teen's death." Go to:

http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/7707637p-8647301c.html
____________________________________________________________________

"The Alameda County Coroner's Office has
confirmed that a therapeutic drug-induced
abortion led to the death of an 18-year-old
Livermore woman who died Sept. 17.

"According to the autopsy report released
Friday, Holly Patterson died of septic
shock caused by endomyometritis, an inflam-
mation of the uterus. The report says that
endomyometritis was caused by a drug-induced
abortion.

"Endomyometritris is an infection of the womb
that more typically is a complication of a
cesarean section and septic shock is an often
fatal collapse of blood pressure caused by
infection.

"Although Patterson died just days after
initiating an abortion with the drug RU-486,
the controversial abortion medication was not
specifically mentioned in the teen's Cause of
Death report.

======================================================================

Me wrote:
If the RU-486 drug was directly related to the cause
of the woman's death, then why was it not mentioned
in the coroner's report?

======================================================================
Papa Jack replied:
It was mentioned -- just not directly. Look above
at the quoted article. The coroner stated clearly
that the death was a result of:
"...that endomyometritis was caused by a
drug-induced abortion."
======================================================================

Me wrote:
PJ, by the way, death as a result of abortion will
happen more often if you ever get your way and
abortion is illegalized....

======================================================================
Papa Jack responded:
What we DO KNOW is that the rate of death for
unborn children has greatly increased From
Roe v. Wade until 1990, the numbers of abortions
reported to CDC increased by 244%. CDC admits
these numbers are under-estimates.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5109a1.htm#tab1
Thus, it's easy to see the legalization of abortions
dramatically increased the numbers of abortions.
If limitations were imposed on abortions to ban
unnecessary abortions, there is no reason to believe
the numbers of deaths of pregnant women would
increase. The same abortionists who kill unborn
children today would simply start performing
illegal abortions in private. They would have
access to the same antibiotics they use today.
======================================================================

Me wrote:
...So get used to it.

======================================================================
Papa Jack commented:
Get used to what? You mean I should get used
to the national shame of slaughtering over
one million living, innocent human beings
each year? I can't do that. Can you?
======================================================================

Me wrote:
In fact, isn't this the kind of news that
should bring a smile to your face? After
all, a baby-killer died as a result of
killing a baby, right? Come clean! You
know you take great joy at hearing about
such stories! One less baby-killer, right?

======================================================================
Papa Jack remarked:
I've repeatedly expressed my support for that part of
the GOP Platform which states:
"...Our goal is to ensure that women with
problem pregnancies have the kind of sup-
port, material and otherwise, they need
for themselves and for their babies, not
to be punitive towards those for whose
difficult situation we have only compas-
sion. We oppose abortion, but our pro-life
agenda does not include punitive action
against women who have an abortion. We
salute those who provide alternatives to
abortion and offer adoption services,..."
http://www.rnc.org/GOPInfo/Platform/2000platform4.htm
Thanks for considering my point of view.
.

User: "Lawrence E. McKnight"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	05 Nov 2003 06:49:03 PM

On 4 Nov 2003 16:55:40 -0800,

(Papa Jack) wrote:
[snip...

Hmm. Are you claiming that illegal abortions were reported to the
CDC?

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5109a1.htm#tab1

Thus, it's easy to see the legalization of abortions
dramatically increased the numbers of abortions.

It is? See my question above.

[snip..
-
Larry
(this space unintentionally left blank .....
make obvious deletion for email
.

User: "golddodgearies"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	04 Nov 2003 12:05:34 PM

Me <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<srhi-3D7968.07345804112003@comcast.ash.giganews.com>...

In article <6f9e1b49.0311020748.29d72889@posting.google.com>,
papajack@stic.net (Papa Jack) wrote:

If the RU-486 drug was directly related to the cause of the woman's
death, then why was it not mentioned in the coroner's report?

PJ, by the way, death as a result of abortion will happen more often if
you ever get your way and abortion is illegalized. So get used to it.

In fact, isn't this the kind of news that should bring a smile to your
face? After all, a baby-killer died as a result of killing a baby,
right? Come clean! You know you take great joy at hearing about such
stories! One less baby-killer, right?

Hmm. Were you trying to prove the parents are nonhumans?
.

User: "Frank Dwyer"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	02 Nov 2003 09:59:40 AM

Papa Jack wrote:

On November 2, 2003, the Associated Press, posted an
article titled: "Coroner: Drug-induced abortion led
to teen's death." Go to:

http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/7707637p-8647301c.html
____________________________________________________________________

"The Alameda County Coroner's Office has
confirmed that a therapeutic drug-induced
abortion led to the death of an 18-year-old
Livermore woman who died Sept. 17.

"According to the autopsy report released
Friday, Holly Patterson died of septic
shock caused by endomyometritis, an inflam-
mation of the uterus. The report says that
endomyometritis was caused by a drug-induced
abortion.

"Endomyometritris is an infection of the womb
that more typically is a complication of a
cesarean section and septic shock is an often
fatal collapse of blood pressure caused by
infection.

"Although Patterson died just days after
initiating an abortion with the drug RU-486,
the controversial abortion medication was not
specifically mentioned in the teen's Cause of
Death report.

"The finding is consistent with what doctors
at Valley Care Medical Center in Pleasanton
told Holly's father, Monty Patterson, in the
hours after her death Sept. 17.

"This confirms what we believed is the cause
of Holly's death," said Helen Wilson-Patterson,
in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

"The 18-year-old was given the abortion pill a
week earlier by a Planned Parenthood Clinic in
Hayward, where she sought it without the know-
ledge of her father. When she fell ill Sept. 14,
her boyfriend rushed her to Valley Care Medical
Center, where she reportedly was told that her
pain and bleeding were normal, and she was sent
home with painkillers.

"She returned to the hospital three days later,
on Sept. 17, and died.

"The teenager's death has become a cause celebre
among anti-abortion groups, though her grief-
stricken father has not taken a political position.

"I am not putting out a pro-choice or pro-life
stand," he explained. "We need to know that drugs
are safe, and if they are not safe, do something
about it."

"Patterson also said he and his wife feel it is
their duty to inform other teenagers, young
adults and parents about the "grave dangers" of
the drug.

"RU-486 is a drug that causes a non-surgical
abortion sometimes compared to a miscarriage."
____________________________________________________________________

Papa Jack comments:
Let's review -- what did MINXS tell us, in part:

"...There is no reason why doctors who haven't
had training in surgical abortion techniques
or even nurse practioners and physician assis-
tants can't dispense mifepristone. This
increases the number of people who can perform
abortions and could even increase the number
of abortion providers...."

So, MINXS' solution to the problems posed by Holly
Patterson's death is to allow many less qualified
abortion clinic workers to hand out more mifepris-
tone! You can see the mind-set of radicals like
MINXS. Nothing is more important than increasing
the numbers of unborn children slaughtered in
chop shops. If a few young women like Holly Pat-
terson happen to die along the way, well that's
just too bad.

One part of the answer should be for the family to
initiate a multi-million dollar lawsuit against
Planned Parenthood. Once PP loses a few such suits,
maybe they'll start paying more attention to the
health and welfare of their clients.

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their clients.
.

User: "Sneechres"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	02 Nov 2003 01:33:56 PM

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

One part of the answer should be for the family to
initiate a multi-million dollar lawsuit against
Planned Parenthood. Once PP loses a few such suits,
maybe they'll start paying more attention to the
health and welfare of their clients.

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco industry
has is customers who are responsible for their own health.
However, those under the age of 18 aren't allowed to smoke. Of
course, those under the age of 18 should not be given medications
without the consent of their parents.
Therefore, PP is responsible for selling drugs to minors.
--S
.

User: "--sexkitten--"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	02 Nov 2003 02:57:33 PM

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311021133.30a22d4e@posting.google.com...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message

news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco industry
has is customers who are responsible for their own health.

Which is somehow totally different from medical practice, I'm sure?

However, those under the age of 18 aren't allowed to smoke. Of
course, those under the age of 18 should not be given medications
without the consent of their parents.

Therefore, PP is responsible for selling drugs to minors.

I'm sure you've called the police?

--S

User: "Sneechres"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	02 Nov 2003 11:09:46 PM

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bo3r4q$17nddi$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311021133.30a22d4e@posting.google.com...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message

news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco industry
has is customers who are responsible for their own health.

Which is somehow totally different from medical practice, I'm sure?

I dunno, Brilliant, you were the one talking about how much you know
about the medical field a month or so back. How quickly you forget.
Think you can figure out the difference between selling a legal and
for the most part harmless product (complete with warning label) to
consenting adults and dispensing profoundly powerful medication on
prescription under the guise of medical expertise?
Maybe you should just ask your psychologist. Of course, he can't help
you if you can't figure out the difference between crack and
Coca-Cola, which something tells me you probably can't, since you were
just bemoaning the horrors of caffeine.

I'm sure you've called the police?

What can the police do about it when so many people seem to think the
idea is dandy? It's "medicine" don't you know.
Sheesh, giving teens RU486, no problem. Give them a cigarette and
watch people have a ***** fit.
--S
.

User: "--sexkitten--"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	03 Nov 2003 11:16:24 AM

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311022109.ba39e5c@posting.google.com...

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<bo3r4q$17nddi$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311021133.30a22d4e@posting.google.com...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message

news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their

clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco industry
has is customers who are responsible for their own health.

Which is somehow totally different from medical practice, I'm sure?

I dunno, Brilliant, you were the one talking about how much you know
about the medical field a month or so back. How quickly you forget.

I didn't forget. I asked you to define your point.

Think you can figure out the difference between selling a legal and
for the most part harmless product (complete with warning label) to
consenting adults and dispensing profoundly powerful medication on
prescription under the guise of medical expertise?

I don't recall we were speaking of consenting adults. There are a whole host
of OTC drugs that minors can buy, many of which can be harmful or fatal.

Maybe you should just ask your psychologist. Of course, he can't help
you if you can't figure out the difference between crack and
Coca-Cola, which something tells me you probably can't, since you were
just bemoaning the horrors of caffeine.

First she doesn't know what a doctor is, then she doesn't know that caffeine
is a drug.
Apparently she is also unaware that crack is not a drugstore item.

I'm sure you've called the police?

What can the police do about it when so many people seem to think the
idea is dandy? It's "medicine" don't you know.

So in other words what they did was perfectly legal?

Sheesh, giving teens RU486, no problem. Give them a cigarette and
watch people have a ***** fit.

Not me. If they want to smoke let em. They know the risks like the rest of
us.

--S

User: "Sneechres"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	04 Nov 2003 01:13:30 AM

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bo62i1$1799fc$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311022109.ba39e5c@posting.google.com...

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<bo3r4q$17nddi$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311021133.30a22d4e@posting.google.com...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message

news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their

clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco industry
has is customers who are responsible for their own health.

Which is somehow totally different from medical practice, I'm sure?

I dunno, Brilliant, you were the one talking about how much you know
about the medical field a month or so back. How quickly you forget.

I didn't forget.

Yes you did.

I asked you to define your point.

No, you didn't. Otherwise you would have used the words "define your
point." (Not that you care what other people's points are; you can't
even make any logical points of your own, anyway.)

I don't recall we were speaking of consenting adults.

Speak about whatever you want.

There are a whole host
of OTC drugs that minors can buy, many of which can be harmful or fatal.

Great.

First she doesn't know what a doctor is,

I know exactly what a doctor is. This explains why I have exactly
zero medical problems, unlike yourself.
then she doesn't know that caffeine

is a drug.

I don't care that it's a "drug."

Apparently she is also unaware that crack is not a drugstore item.

Ritalin mimics crack cocaine and is available by prescription,
commonly dispensed to young children.

I'm sure you've called the police?

What can the police do about it when so many people seem to think the
idea is dandy? It's "medicine" don't you know.

So in other words what they did was perfectly legal?

I never said it wasn't. Preparing to beat your strawmen again?

Sheesh, giving teens RU486, no problem. Give them a cigarette and
watch people have a ***** fit.

Not me. If they want to smoke let em.

That's all I wanted you to admit; that you think fourteen year olds
should have unfettered access to cigarettes.

They know the risks like the rest of
us.

Now your statements may speak for themselves.
--S
.

User: "--sexkitten--"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	04 Nov 2003 11:05:21 AM

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311032313.45464aef@posting.google.com...

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<bo62i1$1799fc$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311022109.ba39e5c@posting.google.com...

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<bo3r4q$17nddi$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311021133.30a22d4e@posting.google.com...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message

news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the

tobacco

industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their

clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco

industry

has is customers who are responsible for their own health.

Which is somehow totally different from medical practice, I'm sure?

I dunno, Brilliant, you were the one talking about how much you know
about the medical field a month or so back. How quickly you forget.

I didn't forget.

Yes you did.

I asked you to define your point.

No, you didn't. Otherwise you would have used the words "define your
point." (Not that you care what other people's points are; you can't
even make any logical points of your own, anyway.)

Are you the college projectionist? Because you project so well (and you
still didn'tmake your point!).

I don't recall we were speaking of consenting adults.

Speak about whatever you want.

There are a whole host
of OTC drugs that minors can buy, many of which can be harmful or fatal.

Great.

First she doesn't know what a doctor is,

I know exactly what a doctor is. This explains why I have exactly
zero medical problems, unlike yourself.

Doctors caused my medical problems? Pray tell.

then she doesn't know that caffeine

is a drug.

I don't care that it's a "drug."

Because it makes mincemeat of your point.

Apparently she is also unaware that crack is not a drugstore item.

Ritalin mimics crack cocaine and is available by prescription,
commonly dispensed to young children.

You didn't say "ritalin" you said "crack" which is illegal and however
little you may like the idea, the two are still not one item.

I'm sure you've called the police?

What can the police do about it when so many people seem to think the
idea is dandy? It's "medicine" don't you know.

So in other words what they did was perfectly legal?

I never said it wasn't. Preparing to beat your strawmen again?

"Therefore PP is responsible for selling drugs to minors"
You were certainly trying to imply it.

Sheesh, giving teens RU486, no problem. Give them a cigarette and
watch people have a ***** fit.

Not me. If they want to smoke let em.

That's all I wanted you to admit; that you think fourteen year olds
should have unfettered access to cigarettes.

You're welcome. I think 18 year olds ought to be able to buy alcohol as
well, particularly if they are in the service.

They know the risks like the rest of
us.

Now your statements may speak for themselves.

About knowing risks? They always have.

--S

User: "golddodgearies"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	04 Nov 2003 12:02:04 PM

(Sneechres) wrote in message news:<1414fd53.0311032313.45464aef@posting.google.com>...

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bo62i1$1799fc$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <

> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311022109.ba39e5c@posting.google.com...

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<bo3r4q$17nddi$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <

> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311021133.30a22d4e@posting.google.com...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message

news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their

clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco industry
has is customers who are responsible for their own health.

Which is somehow totally different from medical practice, I'm sure?

I dunno, Brilliant, you were the one talking about how much you know
about the medical field a month or so back. How quickly you forget.

I didn't forget.

Yes you did.

I asked you to define your point.

No, you didn't. Otherwise you would have used the words "define your
point." (Not that you care what other people's points are; you can't
even make any logical points of your own, anyway.)

I don't recall we were speaking of consenting adults.

Speak about whatever you want.

There are a whole host
of OTC drugs that minors can buy, many of which can be harmful or fatal.

Great.

First she doesn't know what a doctor is,

I know exactly what a doctor is. This explains why I have exactly
zero medical problems, unlike yourself.

then she doesn't know that caffeine

is a drug.

I don't care that it's a "drug."

Apparently she is also unaware that crack is not a drugstore item.

Ritalin mimics crack cocaine and is available by prescription,
commonly dispensed to young children.

I'm sure you've called the police?

What can the police do about it when so many people seem to think the
idea is dandy? It's "medicine" don't you know.

So in other words what they did was perfectly legal?

I never said it wasn't. Preparing to beat your strawmen again?

Sheesh, giving teens RU486, no problem. Give them a cigarette and
watch people have a ***** fit.

Not me. If they want to smoke let em.

That's all I wanted you to admit; that you think fourteen year olds
should have unfettered access to cigarettes.

They know the risks like the rest of
us.

Now your statements may speak for themselves.

--S

What are you trying to prove? If it's "direct abortion is objectively
murder," this is one hell of a 'proof.'
.

User: "Lawrence E. McKnight"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	04 Nov 2003 07:28:00 PM

On 3 Nov 2003 23:13:30 -0800,

(Sneechres) wrote:

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bo62i1$1799fc$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <

> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311022109.ba39e5c@posting.google.com...

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:<bo3r4q$17nddi$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <

> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311021133.30a22d4e@posting.google.com...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message

news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their

clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco industry
has is customers who are responsible for their own health.

Which is somehow totally different from medical practice, I'm sure?

I dunno, Brilliant, you were the one talking about how much you know
about the medical field a month or so back. How quickly you forget.

I didn't forget.

Yes you did.

I asked you to define your point.

No, you didn't. Otherwise you would have used the words "define your
point." (Not that you care what other people's points are; you can't
even make any logical points of your own, anyway.)

I don't recall we were speaking of consenting adults.

Speak about whatever you want.

There are a whole host
of OTC drugs that minors can buy, many of which can be harmful or fatal.

Great.

First she doesn't know what a doctor is,

I know exactly what a doctor is. This explains why I have exactly
zero medical problems, unlike yourself.

then she doesn't know that caffeine

is a drug.

I don't care that it's a "drug."

Apparently she is also unaware that crack is not a drugstore item.

Ritalin mimics crack cocaine and is available by prescription,
commonly dispensed to young children.

Well, if you are going to compare Ritalin to cocaine, it would be
crank, not crack. But go ahead, babble on.

I'm sure you've called the police?

What can the police do about it when so many people seem to think the
idea is dandy? It's "medicine" don't you know.

So in other words what they did was perfectly legal?

I never said it wasn't. Preparing to beat your strawmen again?

Sheesh, giving teens RU486, no problem. Give them a cigarette and
watch people have a ***** fit.

Not me. If they want to smoke let em.

That's all I wanted you to admit; that you think fourteen year olds
should have unfettered access to cigarettes.

They know the risks like the rest of
us.

Now your statements may speak for themselves.

--S

-
Larry
(this space unintentionally left blank .....
make obvious deletion for email
.

User: "Pat Winstanley"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	03 Nov 2003 09:21:09 AM

In article <1414fd53.0311022109.ba39e5c@posting.google.com>,
sneechres@yahoo.com says...

So you think tobacco (in the form of cigarettes etc) is a "for the most
part harmless product". Hmmm... in that case WHY is there a warning
label on every such product?
Are you aware that all medical treatments *also* have 'warning labels'
stating the known risks and side effects?
Here's a simple example from a medicine X that is available over the
counter without prescription... the following is only PART of the
warnings given!
=====================================================================
Warning!
Alcohol increases the risk of liver damage that can occur if an overdose
of X is taken. The hazards of X overdose are greater in persistant heavy
drinkers and in people with alcoholic liver disease.
If symptoms persist for more than three days consult your doctor.
Do not take this medicine with any other X containing products.
An overdose of X is dangerous and capable of causing serious damage to
the liver and kidneys. You should never exceed the dose stated in the
information leaflet supplied with the medicine. Immediate medical advice
should be sought in the event of an overdose with this medicine, even if
you feel well, because of the risk of delayed, serious liver damage.
Some products containing X are not recommended for use in children under
certain ages. Consult the package literature or information leaflet
supplied with the product for further information.
Use with caution in
Decreased kidney function
Decreased liver function
Not to be used in
An inherited disorder of protein metabolism called phenylketonuria
([mention here of a particular product containing X])
Known sensitivity or allergy to any ingredient
This medicine should not be used if you are allergic to one or any of
its ingredients. Please inform your doctor or pharmacist if you have
previously experienced such an allergy.
If you feel you have experienced an allergic reaction, stop using this
medicine and inform your doctor or pharmacist immediately.
Side effects
Medicines and their possible side effects can affect individual people
in different ways. The following are some of the side effects that are
known to be associated with this medicine. Because a side effect is
stated here, it does not mean that all people using this medicine will
experience that or any side effect.
Blood disorders
Skin rashes
The side effects listed above may not include all of the side effects
reported by the drug's manufacturer.
For more information about any other possible risks associated with this
medicine, please read the information provided with the medicine or
consult your doctor or pharmacist.

How can this medicine affect other medicines?
You should avoid taking other medicines that contain X while taking this
medicine, as this can easily result in exceeding the maximum recommended
daily dose of X. Many cold and flu remedies and over-the-counter
painkillers contain X so be sure to check the ingredients of any other
medicines before taking them with this one.
Cholestyramine may reduce the absorption of X from the gut.
Metoclopramide and domperidone may increase the absorption of X from the
gut.
Long-term or regular use of X may increase the anti-blood-clotting
effect of warfarin and other anticoagulant medicines, leading to an
increased risk of bleeding. Regular monitoring of blood clotting times
should be performed if X is used regularly with these medicines. This
effect does not occur with occasional pain-killing doses.
=====================================================================
And here's the sum total of the warning on/in the pack of tobacco I
bought today....
=====================================================================
"Smoking seriously harms you and others around you"
"Protect children: don't make them breath your smoke"
=====================================================================
Of the two drugs above, which would you say is the more dangerous?
What do you think X is?
.

User: "--sexkitten--"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	03 Nov 2003 11:17:12 AM

"Pat Winstanley" <wallopcods2003@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a1082c36764858298b6bf@News.CIS.DFN.DE...

In article <1414fd53.0311022109.ba39e5c@posting.google.com>,
sneechres@yahoo.com says...

So you think tobacco (in the form of cigarettes etc) is a "for the most
part harmless product". Hmmm... in that case WHY is there a warning
label on every such product?

Are you aware that all medical treatments *also* have 'warning labels'
stating the known risks and side effects?

Here's a simple example from a medicine X that is available over the
counter without prescription... the following is only PART of the
warnings given!

=====================================================================

Warning!

Alcohol increases the risk of liver damage that can occur if an overdose
of X is taken. The hazards of X overdose are greater in persistant heavy
drinkers and in people with alcoholic liver disease.
If symptoms persist for more than three days consult your doctor.
Do not take this medicine with any other X containing products.

An overdose of X is dangerous and capable of causing serious damage to
the liver and kidneys. You should never exceed the dose stated in the
information leaflet supplied with the medicine. Immediate medical advice
should be sought in the event of an overdose with this medicine, even if
you feel well, because of the risk of delayed, serious liver damage.
Some products containing X are not recommended for use in children under
certain ages. Consult the package literature or information leaflet
supplied with the product for further information.

Use with caution in

Decreased kidney function
Decreased liver function

Not to be used in

An inherited disorder of protein metabolism called phenylketonuria
([mention here of a particular product containing X])
Known sensitivity or allergy to any ingredient
This medicine should not be used if you are allergic to one or any of
its ingredients. Please inform your doctor or pharmacist if you have
previously experienced such an allergy.

If you feel you have experienced an allergic reaction, stop using this
medicine and inform your doctor or pharmacist immediately.

Side effects

Medicines and their possible side effects can affect individual people
in different ways. The following are some of the side effects that are
known to be associated with this medicine. Because a side effect is
stated here, it does not mean that all people using this medicine will
experience that or any side effect.

Blood disorders
Skin rashes

The side effects listed above may not include all of the side effects
reported by the drug's manufacturer.

For more information about any other possible risks associated with this
medicine, please read the information provided with the medicine or
consult your doctor or pharmacist.

How can this medicine affect other medicines?

You should avoid taking other medicines that contain X while taking this
medicine, as this can easily result in exceeding the maximum recommended
daily dose of X. Many cold and flu remedies and over-the-counter
painkillers contain X so be sure to check the ingredients of any other
medicines before taking them with this one.

Cholestyramine may reduce the absorption of X from the gut.

Metoclopramide and domperidone may increase the absorption of X from the
gut.

Long-term or regular use of X may increase the anti-blood-clotting
effect of warfarin and other anticoagulant medicines, leading to an
increased risk of bleeding. Regular monitoring of blood clotting times
should be performed if X is used regularly with these medicines. This
effect does not occur with occasional pain-killing doses.
=====================================================================

And here's the sum total of the warning on/in the pack of tobacco I
bought today....

=====================================================================

"Smoking seriously harms you and others around you"

"Protect children: don't make them breath your smoke"

=====================================================================

Of the two drugs above, which would you say is the more dangerous?

What do you think X is?

I'd guess Tylenol.
.

User: "Pat Winstanley"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	03 Nov 2003 11:52:37 AM

In article <bo62jg$184sdq$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>,
ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com says...

What do you think X is?

I'd guess Tylenol.

Bingo (though it's paracetamol here). :-))
But so much for the pretence that medical treatments don't carry
comprehensive warnings!
.

User: "Sneechres"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	04 Nov 2003 01:02:28 AM

Pat Winstanley <wallopcods2003@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<MPG.1a1082c36764858298b6bf@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...

In article <1414fd53.0311022109.ba39e5c@posting.google.com>,
sneechres@yahoo.com says...

So you think tobacco (in the form of cigarettes etc) is a "for the most
part harmless product". Hmmm... in that case WHY is there a warning
label on every such product?

For the same reason every other product available to man has a warning
label. Your curling iron probably has one.

Are you aware that all medical treatments *also* have 'warning labels'
stating the known risks and side effects?

Yes. Are you trying to make my points for me? <clip brevity>
--S
.

User: "Pat Winstanley"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	04 Nov 2003 11:28:32 AM

In article <1414fd53.0311032302.42cf9905@posting.google.com>,
sneechres@yahoo.com says...

So you think tobacco (in the form of cigarettes etc) is a "for the most
part harmless product". Hmmm... in that case WHY is there a warning
label on every such product?

For the same reason every other product available to man has a warning
label.

They don't *all* have warning labels.
Don't be so silly.
.

User: "Frank Dwyer"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	03 Nov 2003 01:04:01 AM

Sneechres wrote:

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bo3r4q$17nddi$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311021133.30a22d4e@posting.google.com...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message

news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco industry
has is customers who are responsible for their own health.

Which is somehow totally different from medical practice, I'm sure?

Tobacco is "for the most part harmless"!!??

I'm sure you've called the police?

What can the police do about it when so many people seem to think the
idea is dandy? It's "medicine" don't you know.

Sheesh, giving teens RU486, no problem. Give them a cigarette and
watch people have a ***** fit.

--S

User: "Sneechres"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	03 Nov 2003 12:27:37 PM

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message news:<3FA5FDE8.3B557320@citlink.net>...

Sneechres wrote:

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bo3r4q$17nddi$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311021133.30a22d4e@posting.google.com...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message

news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco industry
has is customers who are responsible for their own health.

Which is somehow totally different from medical practice, I'm sure?

Tobacco is "for the most part harmless"!!??

Statistics show that it doesn't have nearly as many ill effects as
frequently touted, and that smokers usually die of old age. But gee,
Doc, I thought people like you should be aware of the latest research
(Levy RA, Marimont RB. Lies, damned lies, & 400,000 smoking-related
deaths. Regulation. 1998;21:24-29).
http://www.cato.org/dailys/04-29-99.html
(Again, not that you care--according to you, a teenager should be
allowed have eighteen abortions without parental consent, but if she
chain smokes, well, look out!)
--S
.

User: "Lawrence E. McKnight"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	03 Nov 2003 07:31:52 PM

On 3 Nov 2003 10:27:37 -0800,

(Sneechres) wrote:

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message news:<3FA5FDE8.3B557320@citlink.net>...

Sneechres wrote:

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bo3r4q$17nddi$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <

> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311021133.30a22d4e@posting.google.com...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message

news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco industry
has is customers who are responsible for their own health.

Which is somehow totally different from medical practice, I'm sure?

Tobacco is "for the most part harmless"!!??

Hmm. I needed my albuterol after that one.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/04-29-99.html

(Again, not that you care--according to you, a teenager should be
allowed have eighteen abortions without parental consent, but if she
chain smokes, well, look out!)

--S

-
Larry
(this space unintentionally left blank .....
make obvious deletion for email
.

User: "Frank Dwyer"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	03 Nov 2003 12:53:56 PM

Sneechres wrote:

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message news:<3FA5FDE8.3B557320@citlink.net>...

Sneechres wrote:

"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twofuckspam@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bo3r4q$17nddi$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...

"Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1414fd53.0311021133.30a22d4e@posting.google.com...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message

news:<3FA529EE.ACDF76EB@citlink.net>...

Yeah, because we all know how losing a few lawsuits made the tobacco
industry pay more attention to the health and welfare of their clients.

The tobacco industry doesn't have "clients." Therfore it is not
obligated to anyone's health and welfare. What the tobacco industry
has is customers who are responsible for their own health.

Which is somehow totally different from medical practice, I'm sure?

Tobacco is "for the most part harmless"!!??

Statistics show that it doesn't have nearly as many ill effects as
frequently touted,

Not touted by me. Perhaps you're responding to someone else?
Regardelss off that, it does NOT translate to it being "for the most
part harmless"

and that smokers usually die of old age. But gee,
Doc, I thought people like you should be aware of the latest research
(Levy RA, Marimont RB. Lies, damned lies, & 400,000 smoking-related
deaths. Regulation. 1998;21:24-29).

Gee, detective, I don't recall making any claim associated with that
article. However, YOU claim that it's "for the most part harmless" and
then link an article that says otherwise.
Pure genius!

http://www.cato.org/dailys/04-29-99.html

From the very first sentence: "cigarettes are a high risk factor for
lung cancer".
And then, a little further down: "cigarettes are a high risk factor for
lung cancer".
And even further down the article: "cigarettes substantially increase
the risk of lung cancer, bronchitis, and emphysema".
In spite of that, you claim it's "for the most part harmless".

(Again, not that you care--according to you, a teenager should be
allowed have eighteen abortions without parental consent, but if she
chain smokes, well, look out!)

What are you rambling about now, genius? You have absolutely NO CLUE
about my views on teenage smoking. Judging from this post, you have no
clue about YOUR views on it either.
.

User: "Sneechres"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	15 Nov 2003 08:34:31 AM

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message news:<3FA6A448.DEC14AAF@citlink.net>...

Statistics show that it doesn't have nearly as many ill effects as
frequently touted,

Not touted by me. Perhaps you're responding to someone else?
Regardelss off that, it does NOT translate to it being "for the most
part harmless"

Gee, detective, I don't recall making any claim associated with that
article. However, YOU claim that it's "for the most part harmless" and
then link an article that says otherwise.
Pure genius!

The article doesn't say otherwise, actually.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/04-29-99.html

From the very first sentence: "cigarettes are a high risk factor for
lung cancer".

Correlation does not prove causation.
If it did, there would be more lug cancer deaths.
PS: The first sentence proclaimed the risk factor as a "kernel of
truth" that has since been distorted.

And then, a little further down: "cigarettes are a high risk factor for
lung cancer".
And even further down the article: "cigarettes substantially increase
the risk of lung cancer, bronchitis, and emphysema".

In spite of that, you claim it's "for the most part harmless".

I wouldn't do it myself, but I'm not concerned about the risks of
smoking when there are things a person can take that are obviously so
much worse. Like RU486, for example.

(Again, not that you care--according to you, a teenager should be
allowed have eighteen abortions without parental consent, but if she
chain smokes, well, look out!)

What are you rambling about now, genius? You have absolutely NO CLUE
about my views on teenage smoking.

I know what they would have to be for you not to be inconsistent. And
you wouldn't want to be inconsistent, would you???
--S
.

User: "Marie A."
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	15 Nov 2003 04:12:54 PM

(Sneechres) wrote in message news:<1414fd53.0311150634.1a7d6e31@posting.google.com>...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message news:<3FA6A448.DEC14AAF@citlink.net>...

(snip)

(Again, not that you care--according to you, a teenager should be
allowed have eighteen abortions without parental consent, but if she
chain smokes, well, look out!)

What are you rambling about now, genius? You have absolutely NO CLUE
about my views on teenage smoking.

I know what they would have to be for you not to be inconsistent. And
you wouldn't want to be inconsistent, would you???

--S

Sneech, show me a rabid anti-smoker and I'll show you a psychotic
abortionist, hand the kiddies condoms but grab the ciggies, save the
whales enviro-whacko every single time. Liberals as a group loathe
smokers but love those who put far worse things in their mouths and
asses. Most of them would far prefer their 14 year old daughter have a
penis in her vagina than a ciggie in her mouth. These folks know
what's bad for teenagers.
Cordially, Marie
.

User: "Ron Nicholson"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	16 Nov 2003 11:45:16 AM

On 11/15/03 5:12 PM, in article
1dc521ed.0311151412.52ade396@posting.google.com, "Marie A."
<LetEmEatWMDs@yahoo.com> wrote:

sneechres@yahoo.com (Sneechres) wrote in message
news:<1414fd53.0311150634.1a7d6e31@posting.google.com>...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:<3FA6A448.DEC14AAF@citlink.net>...

(snip)

(Again, not that you care--according to you, a teenager should be
allowed have eighteen abortions without parental consent, but if she
chain smokes, well, look out!)

What are you rambling about now, genius? You have absolutely NO CLUE
about my views on teenage smoking.

I know what they would have to be for you not to be inconsistent. And
you wouldn't want to be inconsistent, would you???

--S

Ah, Marie. You're gonna make us look bad. Attempts to shame us into behaving
the way that you want us to behave is nothing more than exerting control.
(PS. Which never works.) The ability to divide a population of 300 million
into them (liberals) and us (whatevers) and then to make such blanket
statement does seem to discredit your typically intelligent arguments.
.

User: "Lawrence E. McKnight"
Title: Re: Coroner Blames RU-486 for Death of Holly Patterson	16 Nov 2003 01:03:43 PM

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:45:16 GMT, Ron Nicholson <balie@rogers.com>
wrote:

On 11/15/03 5:12 PM, in article
1dc521ed.0311151412.52ade396@posting.google.com, "Marie A."
<LetEmEatWMDs@yahoo.com> wrote:

sneechres@yahoo.com (Sneechres) wrote in message
news:<1414fd53.0311150634.1a7d6e31@posting.google.com>...

Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:<3FA6A448.DEC14AAF@citlink.net>...

(snip)

(Again, not that you care--according to you, a teenager should be
allowed have eighteen abortions without parental consent, but if she
chain smokes, well, look out!)

What are you rambling about now, genius? You have absolutely NO CLUE
about my views on teenage smoking.

I know what they would have to be for you not to be inconsistent. And
you wouldn't want to be inconsistent, would you???

--S

Sneech, show me a rabid anti-smoker and I'll show you a psychotic
abortionist, hand the kiddies condoms but grab the ciggies, sa