Decency works

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Topic:	Science > Abortion
User:	"J Young"
Date:	06 Dec 2004 11:10:41 PM
Object:	Decency works

The most effective remedy for what ails society (unwanted pregnancy,
divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism, STD's, suicide, ect...) is
implementing the simplest solution of all; living a life guided by
good, wholesome values and decency. Liberals will have us believe that
every individual should be allowed the "right" to self-destruct.
Society has a stake in the life of each and every person and therefor,
society should take the lead by setting standards. Enforcement of "Blue
Laws" across America will return Sunday as a day for families to be
together. Without shopping and other distractions, the family will once
again be the focus. Decency is taught first in the home, then the
community at large. Let's return to those days when a woman felt shame
if she became pregnant out of wedlock, when abortion-on-demand was not
an option. There was a great deal less unwanted pregnancies and
diseases than today. Let's give decency a chance; it sure can't hurt.
.

User: "JTEM"
Title: Re: Decency works	06 Dec 2004 11:49:52 PM

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.
Obviously, by "values" you mean something other than
fundamentalist Christian values.
And I'd have to agree.
The biggest problem with fundamentalist (or "evangelical")
"Christians" is that they externalize "sin," right & wrong.
The victims have no internal compass, no "right & wrong
detector," and are instead conditioned to seek external
guidance, usually in the form of a Rolex-wearing preacher.
This means that "moral" is dictated to them by authority
figures -- *Any* authority figure.
The bible offers no help, as it offers example after example
of "Chosen" people engaging in all manner of sin, including
genocide.
What people need to do is internalize right & wrong, giving
them the power to repel "wrong" even when an authority
figure tells them that it's okay.... any authority figure... even
one wearing a Rolex and calling himself a preacher.
The first step towards ushering in this new age of values and
internalized morals is to abandon the crutch of religious
fundamentalism.
Get rid of it. Destroy the evil.
.

User: "Who Cares!"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 09:46:01 AM

"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JdidnbbcbaVB3yjcRVn-sA@comcast.com...
|
| "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote
|
| > The most effective remedy for what ails society (unwanted
| > pregnancy, divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism, STD's,
| > suicide, ect...) is implementing the simplest solution of all;
| > living a life guided by good, wholesome values and
| > decency.
|
| The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
| and teen pregnancies.
Washington DC is in the Bible Belt?
But then again,
Who Cares!
.

User: "Andrealphus"
Title: Re: Decency works	08 Dec 2004 12:06:53 PM

Who Cares! <whocares@freetidet.org> wrote:

"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JdidnbbcbaVB3yjcRVn-sA@comcast.com...

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Washington DC is in the Bible Belt?

But then again,
Who Cares!

Yes, it has been since the 2000 election.
--
Why is it that the people that complain the most about Jewish Lawyers
are the very same people that want to force you to follow laws set down
by Jewish Lawyers 3,500 years ago?
Jim Doemer 2004.
.

User: "Johnny"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 09:07:53 AM

--
*
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JdidnbbcbaVB3yjcRVn-sA@comcast.com...

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.
Where did you come up with that lie?
There are not even as many people in the Bible belt as are in the rest of
the nation, so your statement is easily proven to be a lie.
.

User: "Mitchell Holman"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 10:10:23 AM

"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in news:fGjtd.103629$jE2.32702
@bignews4.bellsouth.net:

*
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JdidnbbcbaVB3yjcRVn-sA@comcast.com...

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.

No, right.

Where did you come up with that lie?

Read it and weep.
www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html
www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/1/15443/7699
www.kcstar.com/item/pages/ home.pat,local/3774008e.b11,.html
www.tuftsdaily.com/vnews/ display.v/ART/2004/11/16/4199b518a4700
.

User: "L. Michael Roberts"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 01:00:02 PM

Johnny wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.
Where did you come up with that lie?

Aside from the quickie-divorce Mecca of Nevada, no region of the United
States has a higher divorce rate than the Bible Belt. Nearly half of all
marriages break up, but the divorce rates in these southern states are
roughly 50 percent above the national average.
According to federal figures:
* Nationally, there were about 4.2 divorces for every thousand
people in 1998.
* The rate was 8.5 per thousand in Nevada, 6.4 in Tennessee, 6.1 in
Arkansas, 6.0 in Alabama and Oklahoma.
* Of southeastern states, only South Carolina's rate of 3.8 was
below the national average.
* By contrast, the divorce rate is less than 3.0 in Connecticut,
Massachusetts and New York.
source: http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

There are not even as many people in the Bible belt as are in the rest of
the nation,

Which is why the federal figures quoted above are so alarming. The
religionists want to force their dogma into the laws of the land as
claimed "moral values" but their deads show their words to be worthless.

so your statement is easily proven to be a lie.

I provided the citation above to back up my post, I expect to see your
apology to me posted forthwith.
--
+==================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada. To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
+================================================================+
.

User: "Johnny"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 07:17:24 PM

--
*
"L. Michael Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:f4ntd.85884$vO1.499166@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Johnny wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.
Where did you come up with that lie?

Aside from the quickie-divorce Mecca of Nevada, no region of the United
States has a higher divorce rate than the Bible Belt. Nearly half of all
marriages break up, but the divorce rates in these southern states are
roughly 50 percent above the national average.

According to federal figures:
* Nationally, there were about 4.2 divorces for every thousand people
in 1998.
* The rate was 8.5 per thousand in Nevada, 6.4 in Tennessee, 6.1 in
Arkansas, 6.0 in Alabama and Oklahoma.
* Of southeastern states, only South Carolina's rate of 3.8 was below
the national average.
* By contrast, the divorce rate is less than 3.0 in Connecticut,
Massachusetts and New York.

source: http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

There are not even as many people in the Bible belt as are in the rest of
the nation,

Numbers and rates are not identical.
I still do not agree with the original assertion, and I know it is untrue.

so your statement is easily proven to be a lie.

I provided the citation above to back up my post, I expect to see your
apology to me posted forthwith.

No apology is coming.
I did not misread the lie.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 08:07:22 PM

Johnny wrote:

--
*
"L. Michael Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:f4ntd.85884$vO1.499166@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Johnny wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.
Where did you come up with that lie?

Aside from the quickie-divorce Mecca of Nevada, no region of the

United

States has a higher divorce rate than the Bible Belt. Nearly half

of all

marriages break up, but the divorce rates in these southern states

are

roughly 50 percent above the national average.

According to federal figures:
* Nationally, there were about 4.2 divorces for every thousand

people

in 1998.
* The rate was 8.5 per thousand in Nevada, 6.4 in Tennessee,

6.1 in

Arkansas, 6.0 in Alabama and Oklahoma.
* Of southeastern states, only South Carolina's rate of 3.8 was

below

the national average.
* By contrast, the divorce rate is less than 3.0 in

Connecticut,

Massachusetts and New York.

source: http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

There are not even as many people in the Bible belt as are in the

rest of

the nation,

Which is why the federal figures quoted above are so alarming. The
religionists want to force their dogma into the laws of the land as
claimed "moral values" but their deads show their words to be

worthless.

Numbers and rates are not identical.

correct. Rates are more meaningful, since the numbers have thus been
normailize so that apples are being compared to apples.
For example, because of its high population, New York has more divorces
that Tennesse. However, when the rates are compared using divorces per
the same number of people, New York has a lower divorce rate than
Tennesse.

I still do not agree with the original assertion, and I know it is

untrue.
Why do you know it to be untrue? Because it does not agree with your
preconceptions. All that means is that you are ignoring the facts and
deceiving yourself.

so your statement is easily proven to be a lie.

I provided the citation above to back up my post, I expect to see

your

apology to me posted forthwith.

No apology is coming.

I didn't think so.

I did not misread the lie.

What lie? The one that you told? Because Roberts was able to support
his statements with independent and verifiable facts, which in turn was
cited. You have nothing.
Mark Sebree
.

User: "Johnny"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 09:21:22 PM

--
*
<sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102471642.841195.149070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
"L. Michael Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:f4ntd.85884$vO1.499166@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Johnny wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.
Where did you come up with that lie?

Aside from the quickie-divorce Mecca of Nevada, no region of the

United

States has a higher divorce rate than the Bible Belt. Nearly half

of all

marriages break up, but the divorce rates in these southern states

are

roughly 50 percent above the national average.

According to federal figures:
* Nationally, there were about 4.2 divorces for every thousand

people

in 1998.
* The rate was 8.5 per thousand in Nevada, 6.4 in Tennessee,

6.1 in

Arkansas, 6.0 in Alabama and Oklahoma.
* Of southeastern states, only South Carolina's rate of 3.8 was

below

the national average.
* By contrast, the divorce rate is less than 3.0 in

Connecticut,

Massachusetts and New York.

source: http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

There are not even as many people in the Bible belt as are in the

rest of

the nation,

Which is why the federal figures quoted above are so alarming. The

religionists want to force their dogma into the laws of the land as

claimed "moral values" but their deads show their words to be

worthless.

Numbers and rates are not identical.

correct. Rates are more meaningful, since the numbers have thus been
normailize so that apples are being compared to apples.

For example, because of its high population, New York has more divorces
that Tennesse. However, when the rates are compared using divorces per
the same number of people, New York has a lower divorce rate than
Tennesse.

I still do not agree with the original assertion, and I know it is

untrue.

Why do you know it to be untrue? Because it does not agree with your
preconceptions. All that means is that you are ignoring the facts and
deceiving yourself.

I read the initial statement. It said nothing of rates.

so your statement is easily proven to be a lie.

I provided the citation above to back up my post, I expect to see

your

apology to me posted forthwith.

No apology is coming.

I didn't think so.

I did not misread the lie.

What lie?

The lie.

The one that you told?

No. The lie that was misinformative.

Because Roberts was able to support
his statements with independent and verifiable facts, which in turn was
cited. You have nothing.

I did not believe the lie.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Decency works	08 Dec 2004 09:05:12 AM

Johnny wrote:

--
*
<sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102471642.841195.149070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
"L. Michael Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in

message

news:f4ntd.85884$vO1.499166@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Johnny wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The most effective remedy for what ails society (unwanted
pregnancy, divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism, STD's,
suicide, ect...) is implementing the simplest solution of

all;

living a life guided by good, wholesome values and
decency.

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.
Where did you come up with that lie?

Aside from the quickie-divorce Mecca of Nevada, no region of the

United

States has a higher divorce rate than the Bible Belt. Nearly

half

of all

marriages break up, but the divorce rates in these southern

states

are

roughly 50 percent above the national average.

According to federal figures:
* Nationally, there were about 4.2 divorces for every

thousand

people

in 1998.
* The rate was 8.5 per thousand in Nevada, 6.4 in Tennessee,

6.1 in

Arkansas, 6.0 in Alabama and Oklahoma.
* Of southeastern states, only South Carolina's rate of 3.8

was

below

the national average.
* By contrast, the divorce rate is less than 3.0 in

Connecticut,

Massachusetts and New York.

source: http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

There are not even as many people in the Bible belt as are in

the

rest of

the nation,

Which is why the federal figures quoted above are so alarming.

The

religionists want to force their dogma into the laws of the land

claimed "moral values" but their deads show their words to be

worthless.

Numbers and rates are not identical.

correct. Rates are more meaningful, since the numbers have thus

been

normailize so that apples are being compared to apples.

For example, because of its high population, New York has more

divorces

that Tennesse. However, when the rates are compared using divorces

per

the same number of people, New York has a lower divorce rate than
Tennesse.

I still do not agree with the original assertion, and I know it is

untrue.

Why do you know it to be untrue? Because it does not agree with

your

preconceptions. All that means is that you are ignoring the facts

and

deceiving yourself.

I read the initial statement. It said nothing of rates.

So did I. I saw a 10 rates mentioned. Every statement that was of the
for "<number> per thousand" is a rate. And once a normalization is
given for the first rate, i.e. "4.2 per thousand", it is understood
that all the rest of the values are given in the same scale.
You still did not answer the question. My analysis of your position
still stands as undisputed.

so your statement is easily proven to be a lie.

I provided the citation above to back up my post, I expect to

see

your

apology to me posted forthwith.

No apology is coming.

I didn't think so.

I did not misread the lie.

What lie?

The lie.

You must mean your statements, then. Those are the only lies in
evidence. And apparently you are going to refuse to apologize for your
lies. No surprise there either.

The one that you told?

No. The lie that was misinformative.

That would be your statements that are lies, then. Roberts was able to
support his statements, you have not done so.

Because Roberts was able to support
his statements with independent and verifiable facts, which in turn

was

cited. You have nothing.

I did not believe the lie.

Nobody esle believes your lies either. And if you did not believe your
lies, why did you post it in the first place?
And if you don't think that your statements are lies, then you will be
able to support them with more than your opinion.
Mark Sebree
.

User: "Johnny"
Title: Re: Decency works	08 Dec 2004 10:24:41 AM

--
*
<sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102518312.170560.122320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
<sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102471642.841195.149070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
"L. Michael Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in

message

news:f4ntd.85884$vO1.499166@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Johnny wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The most effective remedy for what ails society (unwanted
pregnancy, divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism, STD's,
suicide, ect...) is implementing the simplest solution of

all;

living a life guided by good, wholesome values and
decency.

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.
Where did you come up with that lie?

Aside from the quickie-divorce Mecca of Nevada, no region of the

United

States has a higher divorce rate than the Bible Belt. Nearly

half

of all

marriages break up, but the divorce rates in these southern

states

are

roughly 50 percent above the national average.

According to federal figures:
* Nationally, there were about 4.2 divorces for every

thousand

people

in 1998.
* The rate was 8.5 per thousand in Nevada, 6.4 in Tennessee,

6.1 in

Arkansas, 6.0 in Alabama and Oklahoma.
* Of southeastern states, only South Carolina's rate of 3.8

was

below

the national average.
* By contrast, the divorce rate is less than 3.0 in

Connecticut,

Massachusetts and New York.

source: http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

There are not even as many people in the Bible belt as are in

the

rest of

the nation,

Which is why the federal figures quoted above are so alarming.

The

religionists want to force their dogma into the laws of the land

claimed "moral values" but their deads show their words to be

worthless.

Numbers and rates are not identical.

correct. Rates are more meaningful, since the numbers have thus

been

normailize so that apples are being compared to apples.

For example, because of its high population, New York has more

divorces

that Tennesse. However, when the rates are compared using divorces

per

the same number of people, New York has a lower divorce rate than
Tennesse.

I still do not agree with the original assertion, and I know it is

untrue.

Why do you know it to be untrue? Because it does not agree with

your

preconceptions. All that means is that you are ignoring the facts

and

deceiving yourself.

I read the initial statement. It said nothing of rates.

So did I. I saw a 10 rates mentioned.

No. The initial statement had nothing in it about rates.
It only said, verbatim, "The bible belt has the highest number of divorces,
abortions
and teen pregnancies."
That is a lie.
And, I do not consider Florida to be in the Bible belt.
.

User: "Mark Sebree"
Title: Re: Decency works	08 Dec 2004 07:13:52 PM

Johnny wrote:

--
*
<sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102518312.170560.122320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
<sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102471642.841195.149070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
"L. Michael Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in

message

news:f4ntd.85884$vO1.499166@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Johnny wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The most effective remedy for what ails society

(unwanted

pregnancy, divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism,

STD's,

suicide, ect...) is implementing the simplest solution

all;

living a life guided by good, wholesome values and
decency.

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces,

abortions

and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.
Where did you come up with that lie?

Aside from the quickie-divorce Mecca of Nevada, no region of

the

United

States has a higher divorce rate than the Bible Belt. Nearly

half

of all

marriages break up, but the divorce rates in these southern

states

are

roughly 50 percent above the national average.

According to federal figures:
* Nationally, there were about 4.2 divorces for every

thousand

people

in 1998.
* The rate was 8.5 per thousand in Nevada, 6.4 in

Tennessee,

6.1 in

Arkansas, 6.0 in Alabama and Oklahoma.
* Of southeastern states, only South Carolina's rate of

3.8

was

below

the national average.
* By contrast, the divorce rate is less than 3.0 in

Connecticut,

Massachusetts and New York.

source: http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

There are not even as many people in the Bible belt as are

the

rest of

the nation,

Which is why the federal figures quoted above are so

alarming.

The

religionists want to force their dogma into the laws of the

land

claimed "moral values" but their deads show their words to be

worthless.

Numbers and rates are not identical.

correct. Rates are more meaningful, since the numbers have thus

been

normailize so that apples are being compared to apples.

For example, because of its high population, New York has more

divorces

that Tennesse. However, when the rates are compared using

divorces

per

the same number of people, New York has a lower divorce rate

than

Tennesse.

I still do not agree with the original assertion, and I know it

untrue.

Why do you know it to be untrue? Because it does not agree with

your

preconceptions. All that means is that you are ignoring the

facts

and

deceiving yourself.

I read the initial statement. It said nothing of rates.

So did I. I saw a 10 rates mentioned.

No. The initial statement had nothing in it about rates.

Fine. However, that does not change the fact that it has one of the
highest divorce rates. And it is the rates that are the most important
since those numbers have been normalized.
Perhaps you should worry more about the rates given that the raw
numbers, since the rates are the more important numbers.

It only said, verbatim, "The bible belt has the highest number of

divorces,

abortions
and teen pregnancies."

A combined value from three separate ones. I would not be surprised if
the statement was correct, since the conservatives of the Bible Belt
tend to discourage information that teens could use about
contraceptions and comprehensive sex ed that would prevent teen
pregnancies and thus the need for abortions; as well as encouraging
abstinence to that youngsters get married for the wrong reasons, i.e.
so that they can have sex among others.

That is a lie.
And, I do not consider Florida to be in the Bible belt.

But it is a fairly conservative state with a strong contingent of
people that wish to suppress knowledge, just as exists in the other
Bible Belt states. And you are the only one that has mentioned Florida
that I can see in this thread.
Mark Sebree
.

User: "Johnny"
Title: Re: Decency works	08 Dec 2004 08:06:14 PM

--
*
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102554832.206932.247780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
<sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102518312.170560.122320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
<sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102471642.841195.149070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
"L. Michael Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in

message

news:f4ntd.85884$vO1.499166@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Johnny wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The most effective remedy for what ails society

(unwanted

pregnancy, divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism,

STD's,

suicide, ect...) is implementing the simplest solution

all;

living a life guided by good, wholesome values and
decency.

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces,

abortions

and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.
Where did you come up with that lie?

Aside from the quickie-divorce Mecca of Nevada, no region of

the

United

States has a higher divorce rate than the Bible Belt. Nearly

half

of all

marriages break up, but the divorce rates in these southern

states

are

roughly 50 percent above the national average.

According to federal figures:
* Nationally, there were about 4.2 divorces for every

thousand

people

in 1998.
* The rate was 8.5 per thousand in Nevada, 6.4 in

Tennessee,

6.1 in

Arkansas, 6.0 in Alabama and Oklahoma.
* Of southeastern states, only South Carolina's rate of

3.8

was

below

the national average.
* By contrast, the divorce rate is less than 3.0 in

Connecticut,

Massachusetts and New York.

source: http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

There are not even as many people in the Bible belt as are

the

rest of

the nation,

Which is why the federal figures quoted above are so

alarming.

The

religionists want to force their dogma into the laws of the

land

claimed "moral values" but their deads show their words to be

worthless.

Numbers and rates are not identical.

correct. Rates are more meaningful, since the numbers have thus

been

normailize so that apples are being compared to apples.

For example, because of its high population, New York has more

divorces

that Tennesse. However, when the rates are compared using

divorces

per

the same number of people, New York has a lower divorce rate

than

Tennesse.

I still do not agree with the original assertion, and I know it

untrue.

Why do you know it to be untrue? Because it does not agree with

your

preconceptions. All that means is that you are ignoring the

facts

and

deceiving yourself.

I read the initial statement. It said nothing of rates.

So did I. I saw a 10 rates mentioned.

No. The initial statement had nothing in it about rates.

Fine. However, that does not change the fact that it has one of the
highest divorce rates. And it is the rates that are the most important
since those numbers have been normalized.

Get off of it.
I never contested the rate assertion, but there is something to notice about
that as well.

Perhaps you should worry more about the rates given that the raw
numbers, since the rates are the more important numbers.

Perhaps you should be more concerned with the truth.

It only said, verbatim, "The bible belt has the highest number of

divorces,

abortions
and teen pregnancies."

Do you care to add them up then and see where you are wrong there, too?

That is a lie.
And, I do not consider Florida to be in the Bible belt.

Supress information?
Where are the up to date abortion figures for the nation?
Where are the up to date, to the day, numbers?
.

User: "Mark Sebree"
Title: Re: Decency works	09 Dec 2004 09:22:39 AM

Johnny wrote:

--
*
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102554832.206932.247780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
<sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102518312.170560.122320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
<sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1102471642.841195.149070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Johnny wrote:

--
*
"L. Michael Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in

message

news:f4ntd.85884$vO1.499166@nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Johnny wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The most effective remedy for what ails society

(unwanted

pregnancy, divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism,

STD's,

suicide, ect...) is implementing the simplest

solution

all;

living a life guided by good, wholesome values and
decency.

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces,

abortions

and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.
Where did you come up with that lie?

Aside from the quickie-divorce Mecca of Nevada, no region

the

United

States has a higher divorce rate than the Bible Belt.

Nearly

half

of all

marriages break up, but the divorce rates in these

southern

states

are

roughly 50 percent above the national average.

According to federal figures:
* Nationally, there were about 4.2 divorces for every

thousand

people

in 1998.
* The rate was 8.5 per thousand in Nevada, 6.4 in

Tennessee,

6.1 in

Arkansas, 6.0 in Alabama and Oklahoma.
* Of southeastern states, only South Carolina's rate

3.8

was

below

the national average.
* By contrast, the divorce rate is less than 3.0 in

Connecticut,

Massachusetts and New York.

source: http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

There are not even as many people in the Bible belt as

are

the

rest of

the nation,

Which is why the federal figures quoted above are so

alarming.

The

religionists want to force their dogma into the laws of

the

land

claimed "moral values" but their deads show their words to

worthless.

Numbers and rates are not identical.

correct. Rates are more meaningful, since the numbers have

thus

been

normailize so that apples are being compared to apples.

For example, because of its high population, New York has

divorces

that Tennesse. However, when the rates are compared using

divorces

per

the same number of people, New York has a lower divorce rate

than

Tennesse.

I still do not agree with the original assertion, and I know

untrue.

Why do you know it to be untrue? Because it does not agree

with

your

preconceptions. All that means is that you are ignoring the

facts

and

deceiving yourself.

I read the initial statement. It said nothing of rates.

So did I. I saw a 10 rates mentioned.

No. The initial statement had nothing in it about rates.

Fine. However, that does not change the fact that it has one of

the

highest divorce rates. And it is the rates that are the most

important

since those numbers have been normalized.

Get off of it.
I never contested the rate assertion, but there is something to

notice about

that as well.

What? The conservative states have higher abortion, teen pregnancy,
and divorce rates than the more liberal states? That was the original
point.

Perhaps you should worry more about the rates given that the raw
numbers, since the rates are the more important numbers.

Perhaps you should be more concerned with the truth.

I am. That is why I counter your lies with the truth and the facts.

It only said, verbatim, "The bible belt has the highest number of

divorces,

abortions
and teen pregnancies."

A combined value from three separate ones. I would not be

surprised if

the statement was correct, since the conservatives of the Bible

Belt

tend to discourage information that teens could use about
contraceptions and comprehensive sex ed that would prevent teen
pregnancies and thus the need for abortions; as well as encouraging
abstinence to that youngsters get married for the wrong reasons,

i.e.

so that they can have sex among others.

Do you care to add them up then and see where you are wrong there,

too?

Not really, since the rates are the more important numbers in any case.
And those have already been presented.

That is a lie.
And, I do not consider Florida to be in the Bible belt.

But it is a fairly conservative state with a strong contingent of
people that wish to suppress knowledge, just as exists in the other
Bible Belt states. And you are the only one that has mentioned

Florida

that I can see in this thread.

Supress information?

Yes.

Where are the up to date abortion figures for the nation?

Apparently, Bush and the Republicans have been suppressing the
collection of those numbers. The collection stopped the same time as
Bush took office, in 2000.

Where are the up to date, to the day, numbers?

Ask Bush and the Republicans. The collection seems to have stopped at
the same time as they took control of the government.
Also, remember that the published information is always going to be at
least a year out of date. The states usually only reported their
numbers once a year for the previous year. Those numbers then had to
be analysed and compared to the numbers from other states, compiled
into numerous categories, compiled, and the lengthy reports written.
That takes time. On the order of several months.
Once we get Bush out of office, and someone that actually works for the
people in there, I am sure that the CDC will be able to start compiling
that information again.
Mark Sebree
.

User: "Terwilliger"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 05:19:16 PM

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 14:00:02 -0500, "L. Michael Roberts"
<L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote:

Johnny wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Wrong.
Where did you come up with that lie?

Aside from the quickie-divorce Mecca of Nevada, no region of the United
States has a higher divorce rate than the Bible Belt. Nearly half of all
marriages break up, but the divorce rates in these southern states are
roughly 50 percent above the national average.

According to federal figures:
* Nationally, there were about 4.2 divorces for every thousand
people in 1998.
* The rate was 8.5 per thousand in Nevada, 6.4 in Tennessee, 6.1 in
Arkansas, 6.0 in Alabama and Oklahoma.
* Of southeastern states, only South Carolina's rate of 3.8 was
below the national average.
* By contrast, the divorce rate is less than 3.0 in Connecticut,
Massachusetts and New York.

source: http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html

There are not even as many people in the Bible belt as are in the rest of
the nation,

so your statement is easily proven to be a lie.

I provided the citation above to back up my post, I expect to see your
apology to me posted forthwith.

I hope you're not serious. The poster's entire claim rested on the
belief that Christian morality is somehow superior. Since you
destroyed that notion, the poster will not be able to face you.
.

User: "Murdoc"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 02:43:21 PM

JTEM wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Obviously, by "values" you mean something other than
fundamentalist Christian values.

And I'd have to agree.

The biggest problem with fundamentalist (or "evangelical")
"Christians" is that they externalize "sin," right & wrong.

The victims have no internal compass, no "right & wrong
detector," and are instead conditioned to seek external
guidance, usually in the form of a Rolex-wearing preacher.

This means that "moral" is dictated to them by authority
figures -- Any authority figure.

The bible offers no help, as it offers example after example
of "Chosen" people engaging in all manner of sin, including
genocide.

What people need to do is internalize right & wrong, giving
them the power to repel "wrong" even when an authority
figure tells them that it's okay.... any authority figure... even
one wearing a Rolex and calling himself a preacher.

If that's the case, then would you also recommend people still believing that something is good,
when an authority figure, any authority figure, tells them that it's wrong?
<snipped rest />
--
Murdoc
Posted with XanaNews v1.16.5.2
.

User: "Somewriter"
Title: Re: Decency works	08 Dec 2004 04:56:49 AM

On 7 Dec 2004 20:43:21 GMT, "Murdoc" <murdoc_0@hotmail.com> wrote:

JTEM wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote

The bible belt has the highest number of divorces, abortions
and teen pregnancies.

Obviously, by "values" you mean something other than
fundamentalist Christian values.

And I'd have to agree.

The biggest problem with fundamentalist (or "evangelical")
"Christians" is that they externalize "sin," right & wrong.

The victims have no internal compass, no "right & wrong
detector," and are instead conditioned to seek external
guidance, usually in the form of a Rolex-wearing preacher.

This means that "moral" is dictated to them by authority
figures -- Any authority figure.

The bible offers no help, as it offers example after example
of "Chosen" people engaging in all manner of sin, including
genocide.

What people need to do is internalize right & wrong, giving
them the power to repel "wrong" even when an authority
figure tells them that it's okay.... any authority figure... even
one wearing a Rolex and calling himself a preacher.

If that's the case...

Repent, Murdick.
.

User: "The other Donald"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 12:21:57 AM

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1102396241.581005.327260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

The most

<excretia deletia>
What a laughable load of simple-minded nonsense from a second-rate piece of
*****. Jon Young is obviously a juvenile moron that only cares about his
shallow existence. He doesn't care about human life, only his narcissistic
tendancies and American Taliban tripe.
So much for your concern for human life, you *****-faced *****. Heres' where
Jon "IBen" Young shows his concern for human life: "If it's muslim bodies
they're eating, I say 'Bon Appetite.' "
You are a waste of human flesh, Jon, and you should pray to your Sky Pixie
that you and I never meet on a public street.
--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
.

User: "Loose Cannon"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 09:33:27 AM

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1102396241.581005.327260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

[...]
On the "decency" kick again, IBenJon?
"Racism is good. It allows one to profile and stereotype more
efficiently. Why would you waste your time frisking a 82 year old
Irish grandmother when three ugly veiled-faced psychotic-eyed muslims
just got on the plane?
All enemies of decency, morality and normalcy must be expunged from
our society."
From:

(IBen Getiner)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion
Message-ID:

Hmmm. How exactly do you propose to "expunge" those that fail to meet your
standards for society, IBenDerFuhrer?

Let's give decency a chance; it sure can't hurt.

Your PH makes it abundantly clear that your definition of "decency" isn't
mainstream for anyone but your fellow Klan members, IBen.
LC~ Thinks poor 'lil "Jon's" bifurcated mind can't figure out who *he* is
from day to day, much less dictate standards of decency.
"God creates men, but they choose each other."~ Niccolo Machiavelli
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Decency works	12 Dec 2004 06:06:15 AM

Loose Cannon wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1102396241.581005.327260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

The most effective remedy for what ails society (unwanted

pregnancy,

divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism, STD's, suicide, ect...) is
implementing the simplest solution of all; living a life guided by
good, wholesome values and decency.

[...]

On the "decency" kick again, IBenJon?

"Racism is good. It allows one to profile and stereotype more
efficiently. Why would you waste your time frisking a 82 year old
Irish grandmother when three ugly veiled-faced psychotic-eyed muslims
just got on the plane?
All enemies of decency, morality and normalcy must be expunged from
our society."
From:

(IBen Getiner)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion
Message-ID:

Hmmm. How exactly do you propose to "expunge" those that fail to meet

your

standards for society, IBenDerFuhrer?

Let's give decency a chance; it sure can't hurt.

Your PH makes it abundantly clear that your definition of "decency"

isn't

mainstream for anyone but your fellow Klan members, IBen.

LC~ Thinks poor 'lil "Jon's" bifurcated mind can't figure out who

*he* is

from day to day, much less dictate standards of decency.

Fine words. I forgot I even said 'em. Thanks for reminding me of all
the little brilliant victories. .
IBen Getiner
.

User: "dentata"
Title: Re: Decency works	12 Dec 2004 03:33:24 PM

<Lappcatt@AOL.com> wrote in message
news:1102853174.990438.166580@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Loose Cannon wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1102396241.581005.327260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

The most effective remedy for what ails society (unwanted

pregnancy,

divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism, STD's, suicide, ect...) is
implementing the simplest solution of all; living a life guided by
good, wholesome values and decency.

[...]

On the "decency" kick again, IBenJon?

"Racism is good. It allows one to profile and stereotype more
efficiently. Why would you waste your time frisking a 82 year old
Irish grandmother when three ugly veiled-faced psychotic-eyed muslims
just got on the plane?
All enemies of decency, morality and normalcy must be expunged from
our society."

fwiw, as an interesting aside, the majority of african americans support
racial profiling vis a vis terrorists
fun fact
whit

From:

(IBen Getiner)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion
Message-ID:

Hmmm. How exactly do you propose to "expunge" those that fail to meet

your

standards for society, IBenDerFuhrer?

Let's give decency a chance; it sure can't hurt.

Your PH makes it abundantly clear that your definition of "decency"

isn't

mainstream for anyone but your fellow Klan members, IBen.

LC~ Thinks poor 'lil "Jon's" bifurcated mind can't figure out who

*he* is

from day to day, much less dictate standards of decency.

Fine words. I forgot I even said 'em. Thanks for reminding me of all
the little brilliant victories. .

IBen Getiner

User: "Loose Cannon"
Title: Re: Decency works	12 Dec 2004 10:48:52 AM

<Lappcatt@AOL.com> wrote in message
news:1102853174.990438.166580@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Loose Cannon wrote:

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1102396241.581005.327260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

The most effective remedy for what ails society (unwanted

pregnancy,

divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism, STD's, suicide, ect...) is
implementing the simplest solution of all; living a life guided by
good, wholesome values and decency.

(IBen Getiner)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion
Message-ID:

Hmmm. How exactly do you propose to "expunge" those that fail to meet

your standards for society, IBenDerFuhrer?

Let's give decency a chance; it sure can't hurt.

Your PH makes it abundantly clear that your definition of "decency"

isn't mainstream for anyone but your fellow Klan members, IBen.

LC~ Thinks poor 'lil "Jon's" bifurcated mind can't figure out who

*he* is from day to day, much less dictate standards of decency.
Fine words. I forgot I even said 'em.

How surprising. Must be the psychotropics you're taking.

Thanks for reminding me of all the little brilliant victories. .
IBen Getiner

"Victories?" More delusions of grandeur, I see.
LC~ Notes that "Jon" has relegated "IBen" to merely a supporting role in his
trolling life.
"We improve ourselves by victories over ourself. There must be contests, and
you must win."~ Edward Gibbon
.

User: "Jeff Welch"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 12:06:11 PM

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1102396241.581005.327260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Society has a stake in the life of each and every person and therefor,
society should take the lead by setting standards.

Sounds like socialism to me.

Enforcement of "Blue Laws" across America will return Sunday as a day for
families to be
together.

Ah yes, that's what America needs - more government interference with small
business.
Another big-government loving, Constitution-hating right-wing wacko speaks.
-Jeff
.

User: "Mitchell Holman"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 08:19:16 AM

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in news:1102396241.581005.327260
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

More government regulations from the people who
whine about too many government regulations.

.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 11:36:47 AM

J Young <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:

Unlike your blind and murderous hatred for anybody you don't like.
Your wish to see thousands to millions of Muslims and Arabs dead is
neither good nor wholesome. Your which to punish and enslave pregannt
women is perverse and twisted. Your hatred is evil.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Andrealphus"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 05:30:12 AM

J Young <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:

The most effective remedy for what ails society (unwanted pregnancy,
divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism, STD's, suicide, ect...) is
implementing the simplest solution of all; living a life guided by
good, wholesome values and decency. Liberals will have us believe that
every individual should be allowed the "right" to self-destruct.
Society has a stake in the life of each and every person and therefor,
society should take the lead by setting standards. Enforcement of
"Blue Laws" across America will return Sunday as a day for families
to be together. Without shopping and other distractions, the family
will once again be the focus. Decency is taught first in the home,
then the community at large. Let's return to those days when a woman
felt shame if she became pregnant out of wedlock, when
abortion-on-demand was not an option. There was a great deal less
unwanted pregnancies and diseases than today. Let's give decency a
chance; it sure can't hurt.

It was called the Dark Ages.
--
Why is it that the people that complain the most about Jewish Lawyers
are the very same people that want to force you to follow laws set down
by Jewish Lawyers 3,500 years ago?
Jim Doemer 2004.
.

User: "L. Michael Roberts"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 10:03:22 AM

J Young wrote:

Yet the highest rates of divorce and teen pregnancy are found in the
"bible belt" states who claim to be bastions of decency! Apparently
your idea has already proved to be a failure!
<snip>
--
+==================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada. To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
+================================================================+
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Decency works	06 Dec 2004 11:37:57 PM

J Young wrote:

Using who's standard of decency? Your's? I do not find your hatred
and intolerance to be a good example of decentcy at all.

Liberals will have us believe that
every individual should be allowed the "right" to self-destruct.

Actually, it is more like everyone has the right to live their own life
as they see fit, and nobody has the right to interfer with another
person's life, or force that person to live according to beliefs that
he or she does not believe in.
In other words, your rights stop at my nose, and visa versa.

Society has a stake in the life of each and every person and

therefor,

society should take the lead by setting standards.

Wrong. That leads to tyrrany of the majority.

Enforcement of "Blue
Laws" across America will return Sunday as a day for families to be
together.

And thereby impose one group's religious beliefs on everyone else,
especially those that do not follow those beliefs.
What about Jews and Seventh Day Adventists, that have their Sabbath on
Saturday? Are you going to force them to work on their Sabbath why you
have ours off? That is not fair. And what about those of other
beliefs that do not include Sunday as a Sabbath? I assume that you are
going to force them to adhere to your beleifs and close their stores as
well. And that does not even touch on the various Pagan religions.
Sounds like rank intolerance to me.
A better suggestion would be to repeal all Blue Laws altogether. It is
a rank example of governments imposing the religious beliefs of a
segment of the populous on the population at large. Completely
unconstitutional according to the first Amendment.

Without shopping and other distractions, the family will once
again be the focus.

OK. We will close all the stores on Saturday AND Sunday. That way,
nobody gets any shopping done.
You just want to inconvienience everyone, don't you?

Decency is taught first in the home, then the
community at large.

Your right in that. Apparently, nobody taught you how to be a decent
human being.
The first thing to learn about decency is to respect other people and
their rights and their opinions and their religions. You respect
nothing and nobody.

Let's return to those days when a woman felt shame
if she became pregnant out of wedlock, when abortion-on-demand was

not

an option.

Let's not. There is no reason to do so. Such a statement only
highlights your hatred of women, especially intelligent, educated,
stong-willed women that are likely to tell you to take a running leap
into Kilauea.

There was a great deal less unwanted pregnancies and
diseases than today.

And a lot more deaths by botched abortions and maternal mortality.

Let's give decency a chance; it sure can't hurt.

Fine. First thing to do is to ignore all your suggestions, because
there is nothing decent within them. They show intolerance, hatred, a
desire to force your beliefs on other people, and a lack of repect for
other beliefs and religions.
I have a better idea. Start teaching our children tolerance,
understanding, politeness, respect for others, honor, how to have an
open-mind, and how to think for oneself. That works much better for
teaching decency than your agenda for moving backwards to days of
intolerance and bigotry. Rather, my suggestions would be a move
forward, and would not impose anyone's personal beliefs on anyone else.
Mark Sebree
.

User: "Johnny"
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 09:06:29 AM

----- Original Message -----
From: <sebree@infionline.net>
Newsgroups: alt.abortion, tx.politics, alt.politics.homosexuality,
talk.abortion, seattle.politics
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: Decency works

J Young wrote:

Using who's standard of decency? Your's? I do not find your hatred
and intolerance to be a good example of decentcy at all.

Where do you see hatred and intolerance in that?

Liberals will have us believe that
every individual should be allowed the "right" to self-destruct.

Actually, it is more like everyone has the right to live their own life
as they see fit, and nobody has the right to interfer with another
person's life, or force that person to live according to beliefs that
he or she does not believe in.

In other words, your rights stop at my nose, and visa versa.

Society has a stake in the life of each and every person and

therefor,

society should take the lead by setting standards.

Wrong. That leads to tyrrany of the majority.

Never heard of tyranny of the minority?
[snip]

I have a better idea.

In your mind is what you should recognize.

Start teaching our children tolerance,

Yes. Start teaching them tolerance of people like JYoung, otherwise you
become a hypocrite.
And, the concept of tolerance is well addresses in the First Amendment which
guarantees Free Speech and Free Exercise of religion.
You have the right to say what you want to say, but that does not obligate
the government to do as you want them to do.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Decency works	07 Dec 2004 11:37:24 AM

Johnny wrote:

J Young wrote:

The most effective remedy for what ails society (unwanted

pregnancy,

divorce, drug addiction and alcoholism, STD's, suicide, ect...) is
implementing the simplest solution of all; living a life guided by
good, wholesome values and decency.

Using who's standard of decency? Your's? I do not find your

hatred

and intolerance to be a good example of decency at all.

Where do you see hatred and intolerance in that?

In your disregard for other beliefs. In your posts in general. In
your desire to legislate your beliefs into law to the detriment of most
other people and in complete disregard for their rights and beliefs.

Liberals will have us believe that
every individual should be allowed the "right" to self-destruct.

Actually, it is more like everyone has the right to live their own

life

as they see fit, and nobody has the right to interfer with another
person's life, or force that person to live according to beliefs

that

he or she does not believe in.

In other words, your rights stop at my nose, and visa versa.

Society has a stake in the life of each and every person and

therefor,

society should take the lead by setting standards.

Wrong. That leads to tyrrany of the majority.

Never heard of tyranny of the minority?

No, because it does not exist. You are using the excuse that most
people belief as you do to impose your beliefs on everyone. That is
tyrany of the majority.
At most, the minority can use the laws of higher precedence, such as
the state and national constitutions, to fight against the tyrany of
the majority.

[snip]

I have a better idea.

In your mind is what you should recognize.

That does not even make sense.

Start teaching our children tolerance,

Yes. Start teaching them tolerance of people like JYoung, otherwise

you

become a hypocrite.

Not a problem. You live as you want, and do not impose your beliefs on
anyone else. If you try, then we get to defend our beliefs against
you, as is our right.
There is nothing wrong about letting live your own life as you see fit.
However, when you try to force your beliefs on me and others, then you
have overstepped your rights, and my rights include the right to defend
those rights from improper intrusion. As I have said, your rights stop
at my nose, and visa versa.

And, the concept of tolerance is well addresses in the First

Amendment which

guarantees Free Speech and Free Exercise of religion.

Exactly. That is why the Blue Laws are inherently unconstitutional.
They interfer with people's free exercise of religion by forcing them
to observe a Sabbath that is not their's, and perhaps obligating them
to work on their own Sabbath because of that.

You have the right to say what you want to say, but that does not

obligate

the government to do as you want them to do.

Precisely. That is why the government is not obligated to impose your
beliefs on everyone else. In fact, the government's obligation under
the U.S. Constitution is to prevent such laws from getting into the
books.
You missed a very inportant point in what I was saying. (no surprise
there.) Personal beliefs should not be legislated into law, because
those beleifs are not everyone's. Laws should be based only on valid
secular reasons that benefit the people as a whole for the region
affected by that law.
Mark Sebree
.

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