| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"papa jack" |
| Date: |
05 Aug 2004 11:28:59 AM |
| Object: |
Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
On Aug 04, 2004, the Drudge Report posted an "exclusive"
article titled: "VETS CHARGE: KERRY KILLED FLEEING TEEN;
LIED FOR MEDAL."
http://www.drudgereport.com/ufd1.htm
________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts from _Unfit for Command_:
[...]
"Whether Kerry's dispatching of a fleeing, wounded,
armed or unarmed teenage enemy was in accordance
with the customs of war, it is very clear that
many Vietnam veterans and most Swiftees do not
consider this action to be the stuff of which
medals of any kind are awarded; nor would it even
be a good story if told in the cold details of
reality. There is no indication that Kerry ever
reported that the Viet Cong was wounded and flee-
ing when dispatched. Likewise, the citation simply
ignores the presence of the soldiers and advisors
who actually 'captured the enemy weapons' and routed
the Viet Cong. . . .
"[and] that Kerry attacked a 'numerically superior
force in the face of intense fire' is simply false.
There was little or no fire after Kerry followed
the plan. . . . The lone, wounded, fleeing young
Viet Cong in a loincloth was hardly a force superior
to the heavily armed Swift Boat and its crew and the
soldiers carried aboard."
[...]
"Admiral Roy Hoffmann,... ...was very surprised to
discover in 2004 what had actually occurred. Hoffmann
had been told that Kerry had spontaneously beached
next to the bunker and almost single-handedly routed
a bunkered force in Viet Cong. He was shocked to find
out that Kerry had beached his boat second in a pre-
planned operation, and that he had killed a single,
wounded teenage foe as he fled."
"Commander Geoge Elliott, who wrote up the initial
draft of Kerry's Silver Star citation, confirms that
neither he, nor anyone else in the Silver Star pro-
cess that he knows, realized before 1996 that Kerry
was facing a single, wounded young Viet Cong fleeing
in a loincloth. While Commander Elliott and many
other Swiftees believe Kerry committed no crime in
killing the fleeing, wounded enemy (with a loaded or
empty launcher), others feel differently. Commander
Elliott indicates a Silver Star recommendation would
not have been made by him had he been aware of the
actual facts."
________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Sounds like to me the myths Kerry worked so hard
to create are coming unraveled. Silver Stars are
intended to be very meaningful for truly heroic
deeds under fire.
When you add these lies together with his near
traitorous "Jane Fonda-like" acts after returning
to the U.S., it's not a pretty picture. How can
we seriously consider this man for President of
the United States?
First, the Dim Dems give us "Lying Willie" -- a
known draft-dodger during the Viet Nam war. Now
they give us this manipulative gigolo. In a
nation with hundreds of millions of people, is
this the best they can do?
The book is already #1 on the Amazon "Best Seller" list.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/books/all/ref%3Dpd%5Fts%5Fa%5Fhot/103-5060554-3869450
.
|
|
| User: "Adam H." |
|
| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
05 Aug 2004 11:56:06 AM |
|
|
On 5 Aug 2004 09:28:59 -0700, (papa jack)
wrote:
On Aug 04, 2004, the Drudge Report posted an "exclusive"
article titled: "VETS CHARGE: KERRY KILLED FLEEING TEEN;
LIED FOR MEDAL."
http://www.drudgereport.com/ufd1.htm
________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts from _Unfit for Command_:
[...]
"Whether Kerry's dispatching of a fleeing, wounded,
armed or unarmed teenage enemy was in accordance
with the customs of war, it is very clear that
many Vietnam veterans and most Swiftees do not
consider this action to be the stuff of which
medals of any kind are awarded; nor would it even
be a good story if told in the cold details of
reality. There is no indication that Kerry ever
reported that the Viet Cong was wounded and flee-
ing when dispatched. Likewise, the citation simply
ignores the presence of the soldiers and advisors
who actually 'captured the enemy weapons' and routed
the Viet Cong. . . .
"[and] that Kerry attacked a 'numerically superior
force in the face of intense fire' is simply false.
There was little or no fire after Kerry followed
the plan. . . . The lone, wounded, fleeing young
Viet Cong in a loincloth was hardly a force superior
to the heavily armed Swift Boat and its crew and the
soldiers carried aboard."
[...]
"Admiral Roy Hoffmann,... ...was very surprised to
discover in 2004 what had actually occurred. Hoffmann
had been told that Kerry had spontaneously beached
next to the bunker and almost single-handedly routed
a bunkered force in Viet Cong. He was shocked to find
out that Kerry had beached his boat second in a pre-
planned operation, and that he had killed a single,
wounded teenage foe as he fled."
"Commander Geoge Elliott, who wrote up the initial
draft of Kerry's Silver Star citation, confirms that
neither he, nor anyone else in the Silver Star pro-
cess that he knows, realized before 1996 that Kerry
was facing a single, wounded young Viet Cong fleeing
in a loincloth. While Commander Elliott and many
other Swiftees believe Kerry committed no crime in
killing the fleeing, wounded enemy (with a loaded or
empty launcher), others feel differently. Commander
Elliott indicates a Silver Star recommendation would
not have been made by him had he been aware of the
actual facts."
________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Sounds like to me the myths Kerry worked so hard
to create are coming unraveled. Silver Stars are
intended to be very meaningful for truly heroic
deeds under fire.
When you add these lies together with his near
traitorous "Jane Fonda-like" acts after returning
to the U.S., it's not a pretty picture. How can
we seriously consider this man for President of
the United States?
First, the Dim Dems give us "Lying Willie" -- a
known draft-dodger during the Viet Nam war. Now
they give us this manipulative gigolo. In a
nation with hundreds of millions of people, is
this the best they can do?
The book is already #1 on the Amazon "Best Seller" list.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/books/all/ref%3Dpd%5Fts%5Fa%5Fhot/103-5060554-3869450
O'Neill is a Republican shill. We know this because although his
'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' organization claims to be
non-partisan, they are sponsored by and accept money from Republicans.
Now, how about Bush's lack of military service and his AWOL? Reagan's
defense secretary has determined that Bush was indeed AWOL.
http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=172
http://glcq.com/
Defend that, PJ. Let's see you justify Bush simply leaving the TANG
because he felt like it.
---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Galen Hekhuis" |
|
| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
05 Aug 2004 11:42:51 AM |
|
|
On 5 Aug 2004 09:28:59 -0700, (papa jack) wrote:
On Aug 04, 2004, the Drudge Report posted an "exclusive"
article titled: "VETS CHARGE: KERRY KILLED FLEEING TEEN;
LIED FOR MEDAL."
http://www.drudgereport.com/ufd1.htm
________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts from _Unfit for Command_:
[...]
"Whether Kerry's dispatching of a fleeing, wounded,
armed or unarmed teenage enemy was in accordance
with the customs of war, it is very clear that
many Vietnam veterans and most Swiftees do not
consider this action to be the stuff of which
medals of any kind are awarded; nor would it even
be a good story if told in the cold details of
reality. There is no indication that Kerry ever
reported that the Viet Cong was wounded and flee-
ing when dispatched. Likewise, the citation simply
ignores the presence of the soldiers and advisors
who actually 'captured the enemy weapons' and routed
the Viet Cong. . . .
"[and] that Kerry attacked a 'numerically superior
force in the face of intense fire' is simply false.
There was little or no fire after Kerry followed
the plan. . . . The lone, wounded, fleeing young
Viet Cong in a loincloth was hardly a force superior
to the heavily armed Swift Boat and its crew and the
soldiers carried aboard."
[...]
"Admiral Roy Hoffmann,... ...was very surprised to
discover in 2004 what had actually occurred. Hoffmann
had been told that Kerry had spontaneously beached
next to the bunker and almost single-handedly routed
a bunkered force in Viet Cong. He was shocked to find
out that Kerry had beached his boat second in a pre-
planned operation, and that he had killed a single,
wounded teenage foe as he fled."
"Commander Geoge Elliott, who wrote up the initial
draft of Kerry's Silver Star citation, confirms that
neither he, nor anyone else in the Silver Star pro-
cess that he knows, realized before 1996 that Kerry
was facing a single, wounded young Viet Cong fleeing
in a loincloth. While Commander Elliott and many
other Swiftees believe Kerry committed no crime in
killing the fleeing, wounded enemy (with a loaded or
empty launcher), others feel differently. Commander
Elliott indicates a Silver Star recommendation would
not have been made by him had he been aware of the
actual facts."
________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Sounds like to me the myths Kerry worked so hard
to create are coming unraveled. Silver Stars are
intended to be very meaningful for truly heroic
deeds under fire.
When you add these lies together with his near
traitorous "Jane Fonda-like" acts after returning
to the U.S., it's not a pretty picture. How can
we seriously consider this man for President of
the United States?
First, the Dim Dems give us "Lying Willie" -- a
known draft-dodger during the Viet Nam war. Now
they give us this manipulative gigolo. In a
nation with hundreds of millions of people, is
this the best they can do?
The book is already #1 on the Amazon "Best Seller" list.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/books/all/ref%3Dpd%5Fts%5Fa%5Fhot/103-5060554-3869450
So what was Bush doing during that time? Chasing down some naked female in
his singles apartment complex? Drinking? Practicing reading about goats?
--
Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future
.
|
|
|
| User: "papa jack" |
|
| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
05 Aug 2004 05:13:15 PM |
|
|
Galen Hekhuis <ghekhuis@earthlink.net> wrote
in message news:<soo4h01c4gpqbkaeaf0frm1cbvo9am41eu@4ax.com>...
papajack37@sbcglobal.net (papa jack) wrote:
===========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On Aug 04, 2004, the Drudge Report posted an "exclusive"
article titled: "VETS CHARGE: KERRY KILLED FLEEING TEEN;
LIED FOR MEDAL."
http://www.drudgereport.com/ufd1.htm
________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts from _Unfit for Command_:
[...]
"Whether Kerry's dispatching of a fleeing, wounded,
armed or unarmed teenage enemy was in accordance
with the customs of war, it is very clear that
many Vietnam veterans and most Swiftees do not
consider this action to be the stuff of which
medals of any kind are awarded; nor would it even
be a good story if told in the cold details of
reality. There is no indication that Kerry ever
reported that the Viet Cong was wounded and flee-
ing when dispatched. Likewise, the citation simply
ignores the presence of the soldiers and advisors
who actually 'captured the enemy weapons' and routed
the Viet Cong. . . .
"[and] that Kerry attacked a 'numerically superior
force in the face of intense fire' is simply false.
There was little or no fire after Kerry followed
the plan. . . . The lone, wounded, fleeing young
Viet Cong in a loincloth was hardly a force superior
to the heavily armed Swift Boat and its crew and the
soldiers carried aboard."
[...]
"Admiral Roy Hoffmann,... ...was very surprised to
discover in 2004 what had actually occurred. Hoffmann
had been told that Kerry had spontaneously beached
next to the bunker and almost single-handedly routed
a bunkered force in Viet Cong. He was shocked to find
out that Kerry had beached his boat second in a pre-
planned operation, and that he had killed a single,
wounded teenage foe as he fled."
"Commander Geoge Elliott, who wrote up the initial
draft of Kerry's Silver Star citation, confirms that
neither he, nor anyone else in the Silver Star pro-
cess that he knows, realized before 1996 that Kerry
was facing a single, wounded young Viet Cong fleeing
in a loincloth. While Commander Elliott and many
other Swiftees believe Kerry committed no crime in
killing the fleeing, wounded enemy (with a loaded or
empty launcher), others feel differently. Commander
Elliott indicates a Silver Star recommendation would
not have been made by him had he been aware of the
actual facts."
________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Sounds like to me the myths Kerry worked so hard
to create are coming unraveled. Silver Stars are
intended to be very meaningful for truly heroic
deeds under fire.
When you add these lies together with his near
traitorous "Jane Fonda-like" acts after returning
to the U.S., it's not a pretty picture. How can
we seriously consider this man for President of
the United States?
First, the Dim Dems give us "Lying Willie" -- a
known draft-dodger during the Viet Nam war. Now
they give us this manipulative gigolo. In a
nation with hundreds of millions of people, is
this the best they can do?
The book is already #1 on the Amazon "Best Seller" list.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/books/all/ref%3Dpd%5Fts%5Fa%5Fhot/103-5060554-3869450
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
So what was Bush doing during that time? Chasing down
some naked female in his singles apartment complex?
Drinking? Practicing reading about goats?
===========================================================================
Papa Jack comments:
Galen, all I get from these descriptions of Kerry's
atrocities during Viet Nam are liberals trying to
distract attention by slinging pig dirt at President
Bush.
You are supposed to be the conscientious objector.
I thought you'd be particularly offended by these
alleged acts of Lt. Kerry -- shooting a wounded teen
in the back, burning down poor civilians homes with
his trusty Zippo, and shooting their livestock.
Why do you continue to defend such a man? The evidence
is building and soon may become overwhelming.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Galen Hekhuis" |
|
| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
05 Aug 2004 05:23:13 PM |
|
|
On 5 Aug 2004 15:13:15 -0700, (papa jack) wrote:
Galen Hekhuis < > wrote
in message news:<soo4h01c4gpqbkaeaf0frm1cbvo9am41eu@4ax.com>...
(papa jack) wrote:
===========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On Aug 04, 2004, the Drudge Report posted an "exclusive"
article titled: "VETS CHARGE: KERRY KILLED FLEEING TEEN;
LIED FOR MEDAL."
http://www.drudgereport.com/ufd1.htm
________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts from _Unfit for Command_:
[...]
"Whether Kerry's dispatching of a fleeing, wounded,
armed or unarmed teenage enemy was in accordance
with the customs of war, it is very clear that
many Vietnam veterans and most Swiftees do not
consider this action to be the stuff of which
medals of any kind are awarded; nor would it even
be a good story if told in the cold details of
reality. There is no indication that Kerry ever
reported that the Viet Cong was wounded and flee-
ing when dispatched. Likewise, the citation simply
ignores the presence of the soldiers and advisors
who actually 'captured the enemy weapons' and routed
the Viet Cong. . . .
"[and] that Kerry attacked a 'numerically superior
force in the face of intense fire' is simply false.
There was little or no fire after Kerry followed
the plan. . . . The lone, wounded, fleeing young
Viet Cong in a loincloth was hardly a force superior
to the heavily armed Swift Boat and its crew and the
soldiers carried aboard."
[...]
"Admiral Roy Hoffmann,... ...was very surprised to
discover in 2004 what had actually occurred. Hoffmann
had been told that Kerry had spontaneously beached
next to the bunker and almost single-handedly routed
a bunkered force in Viet Cong. He was shocked to find
out that Kerry had beached his boat second in a pre-
planned operation, and that he had killed a single,
wounded teenage foe as he fled."
"Commander Geoge Elliott, who wrote up the initial
draft of Kerry's Silver Star citation, confirms that
neither he, nor anyone else in the Silver Star pro-
cess that he knows, realized before 1996 that Kerry
was facing a single, wounded young Viet Cong fleeing
in a loincloth. While Commander Elliott and many
other Swiftees believe Kerry committed no crime in
killing the fleeing, wounded enemy (with a loaded or
empty launcher), others feel differently. Commander
Elliott indicates a Silver Star recommendation would
not have been made by him had he been aware of the
actual facts."
________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Sounds like to me the myths Kerry worked so hard
to create are coming unraveled. Silver Stars are
intended to be very meaningful for truly heroic
deeds under fire.
When you add these lies together with his near
traitorous "Jane Fonda-like" acts after returning
to the U.S., it's not a pretty picture. How can
we seriously consider this man for President of
the United States?
First, the Dim Dems give us "Lying Willie" -- a
known draft-dodger during the Viet Nam war. Now
they give us this manipulative gigolo. In a
nation with hundreds of millions of people, is
this the best they can do?
The book is already #1 on the Amazon "Best Seller" list.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/books/all/ref%3Dpd%5Fts%5Fa%5Fhot/103-5060554-3869450
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
So what was Bush doing during that time? Chasing down
some naked female in his singles apartment complex?
Drinking? Practicing reading about goats?
===========================================================================
Papa Jack comments:
Galen, all I get from these descriptions of Kerry's
atrocities during Viet Nam are liberals trying to
distract attention by slinging pig dirt at President
Bush.
So?
You are supposed to be the conscientious objector.
I am.
I thought you'd be particularly offended by these
alleged acts of Lt. Kerry -- shooting a wounded teen
in the back, burning down poor civilians homes with
his trusty Zippo, and shooting their livestock.
You don't know much about conscientious objection, do you?
Why do you continue to defend such a man?
I don't.
The evidence
is building and soon may become overwhelming.
Evidence of what? Are you saying it will build until McCain is forced to
speak out yet again about the same kind of smear campaign that was used
against him? Guess who McCain was running against.
--
Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future
.
|
|
|
| User: "papa jack" |
|
| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
09 Aug 2004 10:29:46 AM |
|
|
Galen Hekhuis <ghekhuis@earthlink.net> wrote
in message news:<7gc5h0p224dttq6ucs12gcgie3d8vbi4id@4ax.com>...
papajack37@sbcglobal.net (papa jack) wrote:
Galen Hekhuis <ghekhuis@earthlink.net> wrote:
papajack37@sbcglobal.net (papa jack) wrote:
===========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On Aug 04, 2004, the Drudge Report posted an "exclusive"
article titled: "VETS CHARGE: KERRY KILLED FLEEING TEEN;
LIED FOR MEDAL."
http://www.drudgereport.com/ufd1.htm
________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts from _Unfit for Command_:
[...]
"Whether Kerry's dispatching of a fleeing, wounded,
armed or unarmed teenage enemy was in accordance
with the customs of war, it is very clear that
many Vietnam veterans and most Swiftees do not
consider this action to be the stuff of which
medals of any kind are awarded; nor would it even
be a good story if told in the cold details of
reality. There is no indication that Kerry ever
reported that the Viet Cong was wounded and flee-
ing when dispatched. Likewise, the citation simply
ignores the presence of the soldiers and advisors
who actually 'captured the enemy weapons' and routed
the Viet Cong. . . .
"[and] that Kerry attacked a 'numerically superior
force in the face of intense fire' is simply false.
There was little or no fire after Kerry followed
the plan. . . . The lone, wounded, fleeing young
Viet Cong in a loincloth was hardly a force superior
to the heavily armed Swift Boat and its crew and the
soldiers carried aboard."
[...]
"Admiral Roy Hoffmann,... ...was very surprised to
discover in 2004 what had actually occurred. Hoffmann
had been told that Kerry had spontaneously beached
next to the bunker and almost single-handedly routed
a bunkered force in Viet Cong. He was shocked to find
out that Kerry had beached his boat second in a pre-
planned operation, and that he had killed a single,
wounded teenage foe as he fled."
"Commander Geoge Elliott, who wrote up the initial
draft of Kerry's Silver Star citation, confirms that
neither he, nor anyone else in the Silver Star pro-
cess that he knows, realized before 1996 that Kerry
was facing a single, wounded young Viet Cong fleeing
in a loincloth. While Commander Elliott and many
other Swiftees believe Kerry committed no crime in
killing the fleeing, wounded enemy (with a loaded or
empty launcher), others feel differently. Commander
Elliott indicates a Silver Star recommendation would
not have been made by him had he been aware of the
actual facts."
________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Sounds like to me the myths Kerry worked so hard
to create are coming unraveled. Silver Stars are
intended to be very meaningful for truly heroic
deeds under fire.
When you add these lies together with his near
traitorous "Jane Fonda-like" acts after returning
to the U.S., it's not a pretty picture. How can
we seriously consider this man for President of
the United States?
First, the Dim Dems give us "Lying Willie" -- a
known draft-dodger during the Viet Nam war. Now
they give us this manipulative gigolo. In a
nation with hundreds of millions of people, is
this the best they can do?
The book is already #1 on the Amazon "Best Seller" list.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/books/all/ref%3Dpd%5Fts%5Fa%5Fhot/103-5060554-3869450
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
So what was Bush doing during that time? Chasing down
some naked female in his singles apartment complex?
Drinking? Practicing reading about goats?
===========================================================================
Papa Jack comments:
Galen, all I get from these descriptions of Kerry's
atrocities during Viet Nam are liberals trying to
distract attention by slinging pig dirt at President
Bush.
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
So?
===========================================================================
Papa Jack remarked:
If one-half of the allegations in _Unfit for Command_ are
true, Kerry should be in Levenworth Prison rather than
the U.S. Senate.
===========================================================================
Papa Jack comments:
You are supposed to be the conscientious objector.
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
I am.
===========================================================================
Papa Jack wrote:
Hmmmm.
===========================================================================
Papa Jack comments:
I thought you'd be particularly offended by these
alleged acts of Lt. Kerry -- shooting a wounded teen
in the back, burning down poor civilians homes with
his trusty Zippo, and shooting their livestock.
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
You don't know much about conscientious objection, do you?
===========================================================================
Papa Jack replied:
Actually, I probably have a biased view of that. My only
experience was as a commander of security police. In
several cases, young troops "discovered" they were
"conscientious objectors" only AFTER they spent a few
cold nights guarding nuke-loaded B-52s on the flightline.
I read the regs, talked to the chaplains, and interviewed
the "objectors" in person. I found them to be about as
credible as "Klinger" in MASH when he dressed as a woman
trying to get discharged.
I'm sure there are those who really are sincere in their
beliefs.
===========================================================================
Papa Jack comments:
Why do you continue to defend such a man?
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
I don't.
===========================================================================
Papa Jack smiled:
Well, you could have fooled me.
===========================================================================
Papa Jack comments:
The evidence is building and soon may become overwhelming.
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
Evidence of what? Are you saying it will build until
McCain is forced to speak out yet again about the same
kind of smear campaign that was used against him? Guess
who McCain was running against.
===========================================================================
Papa Jack
Go to:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/9327026.htm
"Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, head of the Swift Boat
group, said they respected McCain's 'right to express
his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same
respect and courtesy, particularly since we served
with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain
did not.'
.
|
|
|
| User: "Galen Hekhuis" |
|
| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
09 Aug 2004 11:48:33 AM |
|
|
On 9 Aug 2004 08:29:46 -0700, (papa jack) wrote:
Galen Hekhuis < > wrote
in message news:<7gc5h0p224dttq6ucs12gcgie3d8vbi4id@4ax.com>...
(papa jack) wrote:
Galen Hekhuis < > wrote:
(papa jack) wrote:
===========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On Aug 04, 2004, the Drudge Report posted an "exclusive"
article titled: "VETS CHARGE: KERRY KILLED FLEEING TEEN;
LIED FOR MEDAL."
http://www.drudgereport.com/ufd1.htm
________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts from _Unfit for Command_:
[...]
"Whether Kerry's dispatching of a fleeing, wounded,
armed or unarmed teenage enemy was in accordance
with the customs of war, it is very clear that
many Vietnam veterans and most Swiftees do not
consider this action to be the stuff of which
medals of any kind are awarded; nor would it even
be a good story if told in the cold details of
reality. There is no indication that Kerry ever
reported that the Viet Cong was wounded and flee-
ing when dispatched. Likewise, the citation simply
ignores the presence of the soldiers and advisors
who actually 'captured the enemy weapons' and routed
the Viet Cong. . . .
"[and] that Kerry attacked a 'numerically superior
force in the face of intense fire' is simply false.
There was little or no fire after Kerry followed
the plan. . . . The lone, wounded, fleeing young
Viet Cong in a loincloth was hardly a force superior
to the heavily armed Swift Boat and its crew and the
soldiers carried aboard."
[...]
"Admiral Roy Hoffmann,... ...was very surprised to
discover in 2004 what had actually occurred. Hoffmann
had been told that Kerry had spontaneously beached
next to the bunker and almost single-handedly routed
a bunkered force in Viet Cong. He was shocked to find
out that Kerry had beached his boat second in a pre-
planned operation, and that he had killed a single,
wounded teenage foe as he fled."
"Commander Geoge Elliott, who wrote up the initial
draft of Kerry's Silver Star citation, confirms that
neither he, nor anyone else in the Silver Star pro-
cess that he knows, realized before 1996 that Kerry
was facing a single, wounded young Viet Cong fleeing
in a loincloth. While Commander Elliott and many
other Swiftees believe Kerry committed no crime in
killing the fleeing, wounded enemy (with a loaded or
empty launcher), others feel differently. Commander
Elliott indicates a Silver Star recommendation would
not have been made by him had he been aware of the
actual facts."
________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Sounds like to me the myths Kerry worked so hard
to create are coming unraveled. Silver Stars are
intended to be very meaningful for truly heroic
deeds under fire.
When you add these lies together with his near
traitorous "Jane Fonda-like" acts after returning
to the U.S., it's not a pretty picture. How can
we seriously consider this man for President of
the United States?
First, the Dim Dems give us "Lying Willie" -- a
known draft-dodger during the Viet Nam war. Now
they give us this manipulative gigolo. In a
nation with hundreds of millions of people, is
this the best they can do?
The book is already #1 on the Amazon "Best Seller" list.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/books/all/ref%3Dpd%5Fts%5Fa%5Fhot/103-5060554-3869450
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
So what was Bush doing during that time? Chasing down
some naked female in his singles apartment complex?
Drinking? Practicing reading about goats?
===========================================================================
Papa Jack comments:
Galen, all I get from these descriptions of Kerry's
atrocities during Viet Nam are liberals trying to
distract attention by slinging pig dirt at President
Bush.
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
So?
===========================================================================
Papa Jack remarked:
If one-half of the allegations in _Unfit for Command_ are
true, Kerry should be in Levenworth Prison rather than
the U.S. Senate.
===========================================================================
Shoot, if even a smaller fraction of the allegations about George W Bush
are true, even Leavenworth is too good a place for him. Even if they are
true, at least Kerry volunteered for Vietnam, while Bush may not even be
aware he avoided it. (Those were the days of his drug and alcoholic
stupors.) Bush is unable to recall who he served with, and, not
surprisingly, no one can recall serving with him. At least Kerry has folks
who remember him.
Papa Jack comments:
You are supposed to be the conscientious objector.
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
I am.
===========================================================================
Papa Jack wrote:
Hmmmm.
===========================================================================
Papa Jack comments:
I thought you'd be particularly offended by these
alleged acts of Lt. Kerry -- shooting a wounded teen
in the back, burning down poor civilians homes with
his trusty Zippo, and shooting their livestock.
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
You don't know much about conscientious objection, do you?
===========================================================================
Papa Jack replied:
Actually, I probably have a biased view of that. My only
experience was as a commander of security police. In
several cases, young troops "discovered" they were
"conscientious objectors" only AFTER they spent a few
cold nights guarding nuke-loaded B-52s on the flightline.
I read the regs, talked to the chaplains, and interviewed
the "objectors" in person. I found them to be about as
credible as "Klinger" in MASH when he dressed as a woman
trying to get discharged.
I'm sure there are those who really are sincere in their
beliefs.
===========================================================================
Nothing you have said is evidence that you know anything about it.
Papa Jack comments:
Why do you continue to defend such a man?
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
I don't.
===========================================================================
Papa Jack smiled:
Well, you could have fooled me.
===========================================================================
That isn't surprising either. It takes very little effort to fool you.
Papa Jack comments:
The evidence is building and soon may become overwhelming.
===========================================================================
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
Evidence of what? Are you saying it will build until
McCain is forced to speak out yet again about the same
kind of smear campaign that was used against him? Guess
who McCain was running against.
===========================================================================
Papa Jack
Go to:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/9327026.htm
"Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, head of the Swift Boat
group, said they respected McCain's 'right to express
his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same
respect and courtesy, particularly since we served
with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain
did not.'
"...we served with John Kerry, we knew him well..."
It is to laugh. Few of the people behind the book were even with Kerry,
let alone "knew him well." They could just as well say they "served" with
my brother, I think they were in the service about the same time.
--
Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future
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| User: "Frank Dwyer" |
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| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
05 Aug 2004 07:25:36 PM |
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papa jack wrote:
Papa Jack commented:
Sounds like to me the myths Kerry worked so hard
to create are coming unraveled. Silver Stars are
intended to be very meaningful for truly heroic
deeds under fire.
When you add these lies together with his near
traitorous "Jane Fonda-like" acts after returning
to the U.S., it's not a pretty picture. How can
we seriously consider this man for President of
the United States?
Because military service has absolutely nothing to do with ability to be
president.
First, the Dim Dems give us "Lying Willie" -- a
known draft-dodger during the Viet Nam war.
Who turned out to be a fairly decent president... go figure.
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| User: "Paul Anderson" |
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| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
05 Aug 2004 10:17:43 PM |
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On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:25:36 GMT, Frank Dwyer <fdwyer@citlink.net>
wrote:
......
First, the Dim Dems give us "Lying Willie" -- a
known draft-dodger during the Viet Nam war.
Who turned out to be a fairly decent president... go figure.
If it wasn't for presidential term limits he would still be president.
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| User: "Greg Bernath" |
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| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
07 Aug 2004 07:30:25 PM |
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http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/
Ruh-roh. One of the swift boat liars has had an attack of conscience
and has retracted his statements, essentially admitting that he lied.
That someone is George Elliot, Kerry's CO. Things are looking mighty
bleak for the swift boat liars. They're airing TV ads now, but now
that Elliot has backed off, none of the men is the ads has acually
served with Kerry. Makes them look awfully stupid and dishonest.
These liars are the men that Papa Jack looks up to and regards as
credible sources. They sold out their honor for a buck, and that makes
them Papa Jack's kind of people.
Greg Bernath
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
07 Aug 2004 07:47:05 PM |
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Greg Bernath <gregignoresthis@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:gjsah0d0c5frh5h2q7sour70463id1h99e@4ax.com:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_cr
iticism_of_kerry/
Ruh-roh. One of the swift boat liars has had an attack of conscience
and has retracted his statements, essentially admitting that he lied.
That someone is George Elliot, Kerry's CO. Things are looking mighty
bleak for the swift boat liars. They're airing TV ads now, but now
that Elliot has backed off, none of the men is the ads has acually
served with Kerry. Makes them look awfully stupid and dishonest.
These liars are the men that Papa Jack looks up to and regards as
credible sources. They sold out their honor for a buck, and that makes
them Papa Jack's kind of people.
not just papa jack's kind of people, but all republicans who have accepted
the actions of the bush administration.
when republicans vote in november, if they vote for bush then they are
clearly sending a signal that they accept, if not endorse, the behavior of
the bush administration.
it is amusing to note how quickly the republican campaign strategists
concluded that the only shot they had to win in november was to blatantly
lie.
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| User: "Sneechres" |
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| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
08 Aug 2004 06:11:17 PM |
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Greg Bernath <gregignoresthis@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<gjsah0d0c5frh5h2q7sour70463id1h99e@4ax.com>...
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/
Ruh-roh. One of the swift boat liars has had an attack of conscience
and has retracted his statements, essentially admitting that he lied.
Actually, that George Elliott says that he was misquoted by the Globe,
and his most recently signed reaffirmed affidavit sides with the
Swiftees. The Globe responded by basically calling him a liar.
http://prorev.com/2004/08/boston-globe-says-retraction-of.htm
http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerryspot.asp
--S
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
08 Aug 2004 06:27:28 PM |
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(Sneechres) wrote in
news:1414fd53.0408081511.3d1b8aea@posting.google.com:
Greg Bernath <gregignoresthis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<gjsah0d0c5frh5h2q7sour70463id1h99e@4ax.com>...
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_c
riticism_of_kerry/
Ruh-roh. One of the swift boat liars has had an attack of conscience
and has retracted his statements, essentially admitting that he lied.
Actually, that George Elliott says that he was misquoted by the Globe,
and his most recently signed reaffirmed affidavit sides with the
Swiftees. The Globe responded by basically calling him a liar.
how do you think they should have handled his lie?
.
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| User: "Sneechres" |
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| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
10 Aug 2004 10:38:33 AM |
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"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message news:<Xns953FC5EE931A4keegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4>...
sneechres@yahoo.com (Sneechres) wrote in
news:1414fd53.0408081511.3d1b8aea@posting.google.com:
Greg Bernath <gregignoresthis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<gjsah0d0c5frh5h2q7sour70463id1h99e@4ax.com>...
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_c
riticism_of_kerry/
Ruh-roh. One of the swift boat liars has had an attack of conscience
and has retracted his statements, essentially admitting that he lied.
Actually, that George Elliott says that he was misquoted by the Globe,
and his most recently signed reaffirmed affidavit sides with the
Swiftees. The Globe responded by basically calling him a liar.
how do you think they should have handled his lie?
How about, instead of standing by THEIR lie, they actually report what
he said?
"After the Kranish story about Elliot's retraction ran, Elliot
reportedly stepped forward and said that the Kranish article was wrong
and that he had not, in fact, retracted his statement contained in the
Swiftees' ad. It was also reported that Michael Kranish was somewhat
of a Kerry insider, having written an introduction to the
Kerry-Edwards campaign book entitled "Our Plan for America." That led
to this story in the Globe written by Susan Milligan. Milligan said
that the Globe was standing by it's reporting, and that Kranish did
not have any connection to the Kerry campaign and did not write any
introduction to Kerry's book.
Then things got even more curious.
Did Kranish write an introduction to the Kerry-Edwards campaign book
or not? Has he been exposed as a Kerry supporter bringing his bias to
his news reporting? Or has there been a simple misunderstanding.
Let's just say if you had searched Amazon.com or PublicAffairsBooks
looking for the Kerry-Edwards book last week you would have seen a
reference to an introduction written by Michael Kranish. Later, after
the Kranish article about Elliot's supposed retraction appeared in the
Boston Globe, the web pages for the campaign book suddenly dropped the
references to Kranish and his introduction.
Interesting."
http://boortz.com/nuze/200408/08092004.html
What else can be expected of Kerry's biographer?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1586482734/qid=1092151855/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-8049074-1174307
Kranish has no connection to the Kerry campaign indeed. Pay no
attention to that man behind the curtain.
--S
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
10 Aug 2004 03:42:35 PM |
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(Sneechres) wrote in
news:1414fd53.0408100738.34b90b20@posting.google.com:
"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns953FC5EE931A4keegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4>...
(Sneechres) wrote in
news:1414fd53.0408081511.3d1b8aea@posting.google.com:
Greg Bernath <gregignoresthis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<gjsah0d0c5frh5h2q7sour70463id1h99e@4ax.com>...
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retract
s_c riticism_of_kerry/
Ruh-roh. One of the swift boat liars has had an attack of conscience
and has retracted his statements, essentially admitting that he
lied.
Actually, that George Elliott says that he was misquoted by the
Globe, and his most recently signed reaffirmed affidavit sides with
the Swiftees. The Globe responded by basically calling him a liar.
how do you think they should have handled his lie?
How about, instead of standing by THEIR lie, they actually report what
he said?
apparently you're angered by what they recorded him saying. but what prompted
*you* to lie about it?
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Did Kerry Lie to Get Silver Star? |
09 Aug 2004 11:04:56 PM |
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papa jackass <papajack37@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Sounds like to me the myths Kerry worked so hard
to create are coming unraveled.
Sounds to me like you'd use any sleazy smear you could find to attack
Kerry. So far every one you've tried has turned out to be a lie.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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