| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"biniohas" |
| Date: |
26 Nov 2005 12:51:26 PM |
| Object: |
Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
Does it matter that Daniel Ludwig -- the 18-year-old alleged killer of
his 14-year-old girlfriend's parents -- was a huge fan of hardcore
Christian rock?
By Daniel Radosh
On the night of Oct. 6, David Ludwig, 18, and his 14-year-old
girlfriend, Kara Beth Borden, went to church. There was no sermon,
though -- at least not a traditional one. David and Kara were at the
Lancaster Bible Church in Manheim, Penn., for a Christian rock
concert. As the punishingly loud guitars of Audio Adrenaline and
Pillar strained the limits of the church sound system, the kids
screamed and pumped their fists and banged their heads. "Pillar and
Audio A rock my face off!" David wrote on his blog the next day. Kara
spent almost all the money in her pocket on a Pillar sweatshirt. She
was wearing it the morning of Nov. 13 when, police say, David shot and
killed her parents and fled with her at his side.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2005/11/24/ludwig/index_np.html
.
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| User: "Yournameheres personal Cthulhu" |
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| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
28 Nov 2005 04:01:13 PM |
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"biniohas" <biniohas@hotmail.com> suddenly spluttered:
Does it matter that Daniel Ludwig -- the 18-year-old alleged killer of
his 14-year-old girlfriend's parents -- was a huge fan of hardcore
Christian rock?
By Daniel Radosh
On the night of Oct. 6, David Ludwig, 18, and his 14-year-old
girlfriend, Kara Beth Borden, went to church. There was no sermon,
though -- at least not a traditional one. David and Kara were at the
Lancaster Bible Church in Manheim, Penn., for a Christian rock
concert. As the punishingly loud guitars of Audio Adrenaline and
Pillar strained the limits of the church sound system, the kids
screamed and pumped their fists and banged their heads. "Pillar and
Audio A rock my face off!" David wrote on his blog the next day. Kara
spent almost all the money in her pocket on a Pillar sweatshirt. She
was wearing it the morning of Nov. 13 when, police say, David shot and
killed her parents and fled with her at his side.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2005/11/24/ludwig/index_np.html
It must have been the mindless banality of the lyrics that drove him
to it.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
26 Nov 2005 07:54:28 PM |
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"biniohas" <biniohas@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133031086.481425.224380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Does it matter that Daniel Ludwig -- the 18-year-old alleged killer of
his 14-year-old girlfriend's parents -- was a huge fan of hardcore
Christian rock?
No it doesn't matter one bit because it wasn't the music that drove Ludwig
to murder, it was the demons in his heart and mind. And modern apostate
Christianity is partially to blame. They teach once saved, always saved,
saved by grace, that you don't have to stop sinning, that family, marriage
and sex is the main purpose of Christian life, that it is impossible to keep
the commandments, and that you only have to accept Christ as your Savior and
you will definitely be saved. This kind of teaching allows for people to
believe that it doesn't matter what you do that all is forgiven anyway.
Ludwig was in love with Kara, was sexually active and thus intimately
joined, never wanting to lose her no matter what, so when it came time that
he was forbidden to see her, nothing mattered to him and he committed the
horrendous act. God didn't matter to him, another's life didn't matter to
him, for according to modern apostate Christianity, he was taught that they
didn't matter, for he would enter heaven anyway.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"biniohas" <biniohas@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133031086.481425.224380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Does it matter that Daniel Ludwig -- the 18-year-old alleged killer of
his 14-year-old girlfriend's parents -- was a huge fan of hardcore
Christian rock?
By Daniel Radosh
On the night of Oct. 6, David Ludwig, 18, and his 14-year-old
girlfriend, Kara Beth Borden, went to church. There was no sermon,
though -- at least not a traditional one. David and Kara were at the
Lancaster Bible Church in Manheim, Penn., for a Christian rock
concert. As the punishingly loud guitars of Audio Adrenaline and
Pillar strained the limits of the church sound system, the kids
screamed and pumped their fists and banged their heads. "Pillar and
Audio A rock my face off!" David wrote on his blog the next day. Kara
spent almost all the money in her pocket on a Pillar sweatshirt. She
was wearing it the morning of Nov. 13 when, police say, David shot and
killed her parents and fled with her at his side.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2005/11/24/ludwig/index_np.html
.
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
26 Nov 2005 08:58:18 PM |
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Dore wrote:
"biniohas" <biniohas@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133031086.481425.224380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Does it matter that Daniel Ludwig -- the 18-year-old alleged killer of
his 14-year-old girlfriend's parents -- was a huge fan of hardcore
Christian rock?
No it doesn't matter one bit because it wasn't the music that drove Ludwig
to murder, it was the demons in his heart and mind. And modern apostate
Christianity is partially to blame. They teach once saved, always saved,
saved by grace, that you don't have to stop sinning, that family, marriage
and sex is the main purpose of Christian life, that it is impossible to keep
the commandments, and that you only have to accept Christ as your Savior and
you will definitely be saved. This kind of teaching allows for people to
believe that it doesn't matter what you do that all is forgiven anyway.
Ludwig was in love with Kara, was sexually active and thus intimately
joined, never wanting to lose her no matter what, so when it came time that
he was forbidden to see her, nothing mattered to him and he committed the
horrendous act. God didn't matter to him, another's life didn't matter to
him, for according to modern apostate Christianity, he was taught that they
didn't matter, for he would enter heaven anyway.
Did he say this? Or you just conjecturing all of this to fill in the
failings of his particular brand of Christianity? Let me tell you
something: What Christ was talking about was very deep, something
intended to be sought PRIVATELY. Right now, right-wing Christians are
too busy trying to brainwash our children away from science at a time we
need it more than ever. It's been reduced to a theology and these
people want us all to conform to it. They'll revise history and science
to their end.
On the good side, once they're done and have failed, this brand of
Christianity will be finished. You're witnessing the desperate death
throes.
Alric Knebel
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
29 Nov 2005 07:19:04 PM |
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"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11oi865fltskfc9@corp.supernews.com...
Did he say this? Or you just conjecturing all of this to fill in the
failings of his particular brand of Christianity?
No, he didn't say this, but I know the hearts of minds of people through
their actions and words.
cont
Let me tell you
something: What Christ was talking about was very deep, something intended
to be sought PRIVATELY. Right now, right-wing Christians are too busy
trying to brainwash our children away from science at a time we need it
more than ever. It's been reduced to a theology and these people want us
all to conform to it. They'll revise history and science to their end.
Just for the record, science and God are NOT incompatible because science is
the study of what God created in the physical realm. And as far as history
goes, it already has been revised, twisted and distorted from truth.
cont
On the good side, once they're done and have failed, this brand of
Christianity will be finished. You're witnessing the desperate death
throes.
Well, I certainly hope that false apostate Christianity dies, and that the
real truths of God emerge in the people before it is too late.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11oi865fltskfc9@corp.supernews.com...
Dore wrote:
"biniohas" <biniohas@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133031086.481425.224380@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Does it matter that Daniel Ludwig -- the 18-year-old alleged killer of
his 14-year-old girlfriend's parents -- was a huge fan of hardcore
Christian rock?
No it doesn't matter one bit because it wasn't the music that drove
Ludwig to murder, it was the demons in his heart and mind. And modern
apostate Christianity is partially to blame. They teach once saved,
always saved, saved by grace, that you don't have to stop sinning, that
family, marriage and sex is the main purpose of Christian life, that it
is impossible to keep the commandments, and that you only have to accept
Christ as your Savior and you will definitely be saved. This kind of
teaching allows for people to believe that it doesn't matter what you do
that all is forgiven anyway. Ludwig was in love with Kara, was sexually
active and thus intimately joined, never wanting to lose her no matter
what, so when it came time that he was forbidden to see her, nothing
mattered to him and he committed the horrendous act. God didn't matter to
him, another's life didn't matter to him, for according to modern
apostate Christianity, he was taught that they didn't matter, for he
would enter heaven anyway.
Did he say this? Or you just conjecturing all of this to fill in the
failings of his particular brand of Christianity? Let me tell you
something: What Christ was talking about was very deep, something intended
to be sought PRIVATELY. Right now, right-wing Christians are too busy
trying to brainwash our children away from science at a time we need it
more than ever. It's been reduced to a theology and these people want us
all to conform to it. They'll revise history and science to their end.
On the good side, once they're done and have failed, this brand of
Christianity will be finished. You're witnessing the desperate death
throes.
Alric Knebel
.
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
29 Nov 2005 08:48:20 PM |
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Dore wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11oi865fltskfc9@corp.supernews.com...
Did he say this? Or you just conjecturing all of this to fill in the
failings of his particular brand of Christianity?
No, he didn't say this, but I know the hearts of minds of people through
their actions and words.
No, you don't. You judge those people by their actions, but you don't
know them.
cont
Let me tell you
something: What Christ was talking about was very deep, something intended
to be sought PRIVATELY. Right now, right-wing Christians are too busy
trying to brainwash our children away from science at a time we need it
more than ever. It's been reduced to a theology and these people want us
all to conform to it. They'll revise history and science to their end.
Just for the record, science and God are NOT incompatible because science is
the study of what God created in the physical realm. And as far as history
goes, it already has been revised, twisted and distorted from truth.
No, it hasn't.
On the good side, once they're done and have failed, this brand of
Christianity will be finished. You're witnessing the desperate death
throes.
Well, I certainly hope that false apostate Christianity dies, and that the
real truths of God emerge in the people before it is too late.
You're hopeless. We're fine without a Christian theology.
Civilizations have risen and fallen without it.
Or do you mean by "too late," that Jesus will come back before we're
"saved"?
Alric Knebel
.
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
01 Dec 2005 05:44:19 PM |
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"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11oq4ncscfv77e4@corp.supernews.com...
No, he didn't say this, but I know the hearts of minds of people through
their actions and words.
No, you don't. You judge those people by their actions, but you don't
know them.
I know allot of things in ways you will never know about. Don't TELL ME what
I know and do, you don't know to whom you are speaking.
cont
Just for the record, science and God are NOT incompatible because science
is the study of what God created in the physical realm. And as far as
history goes, it already has been revised, twisted and distorted from
truth.
No, it hasn't.
Well, you are so blind about many things. It comes from your arrogant,
prideful, evil heart and mind.
cont
Well, I certainly hope that false apostate Christianity dies, and that
the real truths of God emerge in the people before it is too late.
You're hopeless. We're fine without a Christian theology. Civilizations
have risen and fallen without it.
No, YOU are hopeless because you don't even know that you are on the brink
of destruction and your soul will be condemned to hellfire. You are NOT fine
because clearly the world is a decadent mess, full of lies, deceptions,
corruption, violence, greed, selfishness, theft, sexual perversion and
promiscuity, fear, warmongering, tyranny, and all matters of evil. These
civilizations today are ALL going to fall to never rise again, without the
truths and ways of God.
cont
Or do you mean by "too late," that Jesus will come back before we're
"saved"?
In your case, it is already too late, because I am already back and you are
certainly too far gone to ever be saved.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11oq4ncscfv77e4@corp.supernews.com...
Dore wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11oi865fltskfc9@corp.supernews.com...
Did he say this? Or you just conjecturing all of this to fill in the
failings of his particular brand of Christianity?
No, he didn't say this, but I know the hearts of minds of people through
their actions and words.
No, you don't. You judge those people by their actions, but you don't
know them.
cont
Let me tell you
something: What Christ was talking about was very deep, something
intended to be sought PRIVATELY. Right now, right-wing Christians are
too busy trying to brainwash our children away from science at a time we
need it more than ever. It's been reduced to a theology and these people
want us all to conform to it. They'll revise history and science to
their end.
Just for the record, science and God are NOT incompatible because science
is the study of what God created in the physical realm. And as far as
history goes, it already has been revised, twisted and distorted from
truth.
No, it hasn't.
On the good side, once they're done and have failed, this brand of
Christianity will be finished. You're witnessing the desperate death
throes.
Well, I certainly hope that false apostate Christianity dies, and that
the real truths of God emerge in the people before it is too late.
You're hopeless. We're fine without a Christian theology. Civilizations
have risen and fallen without it.
Or do you mean by "too late," that Jesus will come back before we're
"saved"?
Alric Knebel
.
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
04 Dec 2005 02:34:08 AM |
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Dore wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11oq4ncscfv77e4@corp.supernews.com...
No, he didn't say this, but I know the hearts of minds of people through
their actions and words.
No, you don't. You judge those people by their actions, but you don't
know them.
I know allot of things in ways you will never know about. Don't TELL ME what
I know and do, you don't know to whom you are speaking.
Man, that sounds creepy. Who are you?
Just for the record, science and God are NOT incompatible because science
is the study of what God created in the physical realm. And as far as
history goes, it already has been revised, twisted and distorted from
truth.
No, it hasn't.
Well, you are so blind about many things. It comes from your arrogant,
prideful, evil heart and mind.
I'm not arrogant. I'm a realist. I've asked the questions that you
should be asking, about the real value of faith.
Well, I certainly hope that false apostate Christianity dies, and that
the real truths of God emerge in the people before it is too late.
You're hopeless. We're fine without a Christian theology. Civilizations
have risen and fallen without it.
No, YOU are hopeless because you don't even know that you are on the brink
of destruction and your soul will be condemned to hellfire. You are NOT fine
because clearly the world is a decadent mess, full of lies, deceptions,
corruption, violence, greed, selfishness, theft, sexual perversion and
promiscuity, fear, warmongering, tyranny, and all matters of evil. These
civilizations today are ALL going to fall to never rise again, without the
truths and ways of God.
Really, without your religion teaching you to see it that way, you
wouldn't see it that way. But seeing it all dark and gloomy and
life-threatening validates the need for your religion. The religion
defines the world to you and then provides the cure. But things are
really better, not worse. The evils in the world are no worse than they
used to be. In fact, they're getting better.
By the way, people have been predicting the crumbling of our
civilizations for decades. I think the United States is crumbling, but
I think Europe and China are rising up. It's all cyclical.
Or do you mean by "too late," that Jesus will come back before we're
"saved"?
In your case, it is already too late, because I am already back and you are
certainly too far gone to ever be saved.
Oh, I see. I'd be interested in hearing this theology of yours, that
states that Jesus has already returned. This is a new one.
I'm reminded of this C-SPAN caller to Washington Journal a few months
back. This woman claimed that Bush was from the House of David, and she
was very religious and she talked about how special Bush was. How
stupid can you get. At the end of the call, she said that she, too, was
from the House of David. I swear, she said that.
Alric Knebel
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
04 Dec 2005 02:52:22 PM |
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Alric Knebel <"[alric]"@[cableone.net]> wrote:
Dore wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
No, he didn't say this, but I know the hearts of minds of people through
their actions and words.
No, you don't. You judge those people by their actions, but you don't
know them.
I know allot of things in ways you will never know about. Don't TELL ME what
I know and do, you don't know to whom you are speaking.
Man, that sounds creepy. Who are you?
Jesus, according to her.
Just a tad psychotic.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
27 Nov 2005 01:19:48 AM |
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On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:58:18 -0600, Alric Knebel
<alric@[cableone.net]> spake thusly:
No it doesn't matter one bit because it wasn't the music that drove Ludwig
to murder, it was the demons in his heart and mind. And modern apostate
Christianity is partially to blame. They teach once saved, always saved,
saved by grace, that you don't have to stop sinning, that family, marriage
and sex is the main purpose of Christian life, that it is impossible to keep
the commandments, and that you only have to accept Christ as your Savior and
you will definitely be saved. This kind of teaching allows for people to
believe that it doesn't matter what you do that all is forgiven anyway.
Ludwig was in love with Kara, was sexually active and thus intimately
joined, never wanting to lose her no matter what, so when it came time that
he was forbidden to see her, nothing mattered to him and he committed the
horrendous act. God didn't matter to him, another's life didn't matter to
him, for according to modern apostate Christianity, he was taught that they
didn't matter, for he would enter heaven anyway.
Did he say this? Or you just conjecturing all of this to fill in the
failings of his particular brand of Christianity?
I see. So in other words, nothing matters that would
mean that you can't blame Christianity.
Would you accept it if someone said that music by a
particular secular rock bad made him do it? No, of
course not. You would say he wasn't wrapped too tight
to begin with. But if it's a Christian rock band, all
of the sudden, it's believable and we shouldn't even
question it.
And btw, don't let the facts about how a Christian is
supposed to live get in the way of blaming
Christianity. That would be heresy! Now go ahead
and tell us all about how honest you are and how you
have no hidden motives and that you're unbiased.
Let me tell you
something: What Christ was talking about was very deep, something
intended to be sought PRIVATELY. Right now, right-wing Christians are
too busy trying to brainwash our children away from science at a time we
need it more than ever.
And there it is. Don't let anything get in the way of
your philosophy called "evolution".
In other words, preach evolution to the children, but
when it comes to our Creator, shut up. But you love
this country and freedom of speech, right?
Matthew 28:18-20
18) And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All
authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Therefore go and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and
of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things,
whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am
with you all the days until the end of the world.
Amen.
That doesn't sound too "private" to me.
--
Pastor Dave
Remove the "123" and "321"
from email to email me.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
27 Nov 2005 05:29:42 AM |
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On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 07:19:48 GMT, Pastor Dave
<123newsgroup-mail321@tampabay.rr.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l8nio15u865024dplo10ia4bd17ibca9v3@4ax.com> wrote:
Off topic
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| User: "Yournameheres personal Cthulhu" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
28 Nov 2005 04:06:16 PM |
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Pastor Dave <123newsgroup-mail321@tampabay.rr.com> suddenly
spluttered:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:58:18 -0600, Alric Knebel
<alric@[cableone.net]> spake thusly:
No it doesn't matter one bit because it wasn't the music that drove Ludwig
to murder, it was the demons in his heart and mind. And modern apostate
Christianity is partially to blame. They teach once saved, always saved,
saved by grace, that you don't have to stop sinning, that family, marriage
and sex is the main purpose of Christian life, that it is impossible to keep
the commandments, and that you only have to accept Christ as your Savior and
you will definitely be saved. This kind of teaching allows for people to
believe that it doesn't matter what you do that all is forgiven anyway.
Ludwig was in love with Kara, was sexually active and thus intimately
joined, never wanting to lose her no matter what, so when it came time that
he was forbidden to see her, nothing mattered to him and he committed the
horrendous act. God didn't matter to him, another's life didn't matter to
him, for according to modern apostate Christianity, he was taught that they
didn't matter, for he would enter heaven anyway.
Did he say this? Or you just conjecturing all of this to fill in the
failings of his particular brand of Christianity?
I see. So in other words, nothing matters that would
mean that you can't blame Christianity.
Would you accept it if someone said that music by a
particular secular rock bad made him do it? No, of
course not. You would say he wasn't wrapped too tight
to begin with. But if it's a Christian rock band, all
of the sudden, it's believable and we shouldn't even
question it.
It's quite easy to see how Christian rock would drive somebody who is
borderlline "not wrapped too tight" off the deep end. The mindless
banality of the lyrics would do that to a sane person anyway.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
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| User: "Alric Knebel" |
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| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
27 Nov 2005 10:04:55 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:58:18 -0600, Alric Knebel
<alric@[cableone.net]> spake thusly:
No it doesn't matter one bit because it wasn't the music that drove Ludwig
to murder, it was the demons in his heart and mind. And modern apostate
Christianity is partially to blame. They teach once saved, always saved,
saved by grace, that you don't have to stop sinning, that family, marriage
and sex is the main purpose of Christian life, that it is impossible to keep
the commandments, and that you only have to accept Christ as your Savior and
you will definitely be saved. This kind of teaching allows for people to
believe that it doesn't matter what you do that all is forgiven anyway.
Ludwig was in love with Kara, was sexually active and thus intimately
joined, never wanting to lose her no matter what, so when it came time that
he was forbidden to see her, nothing mattered to him and he committed the
horrendous act. God didn't matter to him, another's life didn't matter to
him, for according to modern apostate Christianity, he was taught that they
didn't matter, for he would enter heaven anyway.
Did he say this? Or you just conjecturing all of this to fill in the
failings of his particular brand of Christianity?
I see. So in other words, nothing matters that would
mean that you can't blame Christianity.
No. I'm not arguing that point. I'm talking about Christianity as
practiced by right-wing Christians, who are forcing Creationism in
science classes. That sort of thing. I don't have a real opinion of
the cause of this thing you're talking about.
Would you accept it if someone said that music by a
particular secular rock bad made him do it? No, of
course not. You would say he wasn't wrapped too tight
to begin with. But if it's a Christian rock band, all
of the sudden, it's believable and we shouldn't even
question it.
And btw, don't let the facts about how a Christian is
supposed to live get in the way of blaming
Christianity. That would be heresy! Now go ahead
and tell us all about how honest you are and how you
have no hidden motives and that you're unbiased.
I have no hidden motives and my remarks were unbiased, based solely on
what I see of them.
Let me tell you
something: What Christ was talking about was very deep, something
intended to be sought PRIVATELY. Right now, right-wing Christians are
too busy trying to brainwash our children away from science at a time we
need it more than ever.
And there it is. Don't let anything get in the way of
your philosophy called "evolution".
The only thing that makes Evolution questionable to your right-wing
Christian types is that it contradicts a 5000-year-old world, which is
how old the Bible says the world is. I'm not particular fond or
protective of the THEORY of Evolution, but "Intelligent Design" has as
much place in a science class as Evolution has in a Sunday class.
In other words, preach evolution to the children, but
when it comes to our Creator, shut up. But you love
this country and freedom of speech, right?
They're not preaching evolution. They're teaching it in science class.
And, yes, I do love this country and freedom of speech. You're a
religious fanatic, practicing it like a cultist might, and you want to
force it on everyone else. Science isn't inserting itself where it
doesn't belong, and there's nothing wrong with teaching science in a
science class. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know all about how "intelligent
design" is presented as science, but it's not being presented by
SCIENTISTS as a science. It's an idea that some religious people have
concocted to create the suggestion of their theology -- and a
fundamentalist theology at that says the Bible is the infallible word of
God, a ridiculous claim on its face -- has some scientific backing.
I'm a Christian, by the way, but I know longer use that name to call
myself, so as to distance myself from the kooks.
Matthew 28:18-20
18) And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All
authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Therefore go and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and
of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things,
whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am
with you all the days until the end of the world.
Amen.
That doesn't sound too "private" to me.
The PRACTICE is private. Now, there're people everywhere proselytizing
it, but it doesn't belong in a cooking class, a health class, or a
science class. You don't have the right to IMPOSE these teachings on
others. It smacks of a "true religion." Like I said, live in the
limelight while you can, you right-wing zealot (our American Taliban,
exactly). You people are the problem in the world, not the solution.
These are your desperate death throes. Everyone has caught on to how
dangerously stupid you are. When this fails, you're done. The rest of
the world has already assimilated religion comfortably as a private
affair. YOU decide how you're going to develop your relationship with
God. Your true religion is true only to you. Everybody knows this
except for people too stupid to see a plain truth.
Alric Knebel
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
29 Nov 2005 07:36:57 PM |
|
|
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11ol0f3ihhnts0d@corp.supernews.com...
The only thing that makes Evolution questionable to your right-wing
Christian types is that it contradicts a 5000-year-old world, which is how
old the Bible says the world is. I'm not particular fond or protective of
the THEORY of Evolution, but "Intelligent Design" has as much place in a
science class as Evolution has in a Sunday class.
Actually, "Intelligent Design" DOES belong in science class because, as I
said in a previous post, that science is the study of what God created in
the physical realm. In order to understand science, you have to understand
it's source, and it's source begins with God.
Evolution, on the other hand is limited to the facts, that there are certain
things that evolve from one thing to another according to environment,
necessity, as well as through the hand of God. These subjects are not
exclusive of each other. If you are teaching how God created and controls
the things created, then evolution, as how things have evolved from one
another, (not that man is descended from apelike creatures, because that is
NOT true, but conjecture by ungodly men of science), then certainly it
would belong in a Sunday school class as well, if you wanted to get that
deep into the subject matter.
cont
Science isn't inserting itself where it
doesn't belong, and there's nothing wrong with teaching science in a
science class. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know all about how "intelligent
design" is presented as science, but it's not being presented by
SCIENTISTS as a science. It's an idea that some religious people have
concocted to create the suggestion of their theology -- and a
fundamentalist theology at that says the Bible is the infallible word of
God, a ridiculous claim on its face -- has some scientific backing.
So what you are asserting is that you should teach the conjectures, theories
and hypothesis of MEN of science, which some have become taught as valid
truths, which they are not, WITHOUT teaching the truths of God's part in all
that exists? I hate to tell you this, but scientists DO NOT KNOW many
things, especially the origins of the Universe, the source of life, the age
of the earth, sun, moon or Universe, how planets, stars and celestial bodies
are created or basically anything about space,other than what they can see
from a telescope, and the age of these bodies, and yet they teach these
things all of the time and thus they are teaching lies. So to you, as long
as it is Scientists teaching science, it is OK, even if it is lies, but if
God is in the equation, teaching truths, you oppose it?
cont
The PRACTICE is private. Now, there're people everywhere proselytizing
it, but it doesn't belong in a cooking class, a health class, or a science
class. You don't have the right to IMPOSE these teachings on others. It
smacks of a "true religion." Like I said, live in the limelight while you
can, you right-wing zealot (our American Taliban, exactly). You people
are the problem in the world, not the solution. These are your desperate
death throes. Everyone has caught on to how dangerously stupid you are.
When this fails, you're done. The rest of the world has already
assimilated religion comfortably as a private affair. YOU decide how
you're going to develop your relationship with God. Your true religion is
true only to you. Everybody knows this except for people too stupid to
see a plain truth.
Actually, proselytizing belongs EVERYWHERE, because there is NOTHING more
important on this planet than attaining a personal relationship with your
Creator, and obeying His will. Everything else is just fluff of what God has
given. In fact, ALL men were given the commission to preach the good news to
everyone else.
Matt 10:27
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in
the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
KJV
Mark 16:15-16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to
every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth
not shall be damned.
KJV
Ezek 3:18-21
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him
not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save
his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will
I require at thine hand.
19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor
from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered
thy soul.
20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit
iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou
hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness
which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at
thine hand.
21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not,
and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou
hast delivered thy soul.
KJV
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11ol0f3ihhnts0d@corp.supernews.com...
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:58:18 -0600, Alric Knebel
<alric@[cableone.net]> spake thusly:
No it doesn't matter one bit because it wasn't the music that drove
Ludwig to murder, it was the demons in his heart and mind. And modern
apostate Christianity is partially to blame. They teach once saved,
always saved, saved by grace, that you don't have to stop sinning, that
family, marriage and sex is the main purpose of Christian life, that it
is impossible to keep the commandments, and that you only have to accept
Christ as your Savior and you will definitely be saved. This kind of
teaching allows for people to believe that it doesn't matter what you do
that all is forgiven anyway. Ludwig was in love with Kara, was sexually
active and thus intimately joined, never wanting to lose her no matter
what, so when it came time that he was forbidden to see her, nothing
mattered to him and he committed the horrendous act. God didn't matter
to him, another's life didn't matter to him, for according to modern
apostate Christianity, he was taught that they didn't matter, for he
would enter heaven anyway.
Did he say this? Or you just conjecturing all of this to fill in the
failings of his particular brand of Christianity?
I see. So in other words, nothing matters that would
mean that you can't blame Christianity.
No. I'm not arguing that point. I'm talking about Christianity as
practiced by right-wing Christians, who are forcing Creationism in science
classes. That sort of thing. I don't have a real opinion of the cause of
this thing you're talking about.
Would you accept it if someone said that music by a
particular secular rock bad made him do it? No, of
course not. You would say he wasn't wrapped too tight
to begin with. But if it's a Christian rock band, all
of the sudden, it's believable and we shouldn't even
question it.
And btw, don't let the facts about how a Christian is
supposed to live get in the way of blaming
Christianity. That would be heresy! Now go ahead
and tell us all about how honest you are and how you
have no hidden motives and that you're unbiased.
I have no hidden motives and my remarks were unbiased, based solely on
what I see of them.
Let me tell you something: What Christ was talking about was very deep,
something intended to be sought PRIVATELY. Right now, right-wing
Christians are too busy trying to brainwash our children away from
science at a time we need it more than ever.
And there it is. Don't let anything get in the way of
your philosophy called "evolution".
The only thing that makes Evolution questionable to your right-wing
Christian types is that it contradicts a 5000-year-old world, which is how
old the Bible says the world is. I'm not particular fond or protective of
the THEORY of Evolution, but "Intelligent Design" has as much place in a
science class as Evolution has in a Sunday class.
In other words, preach evolution to the children, but
when it comes to our Creator, shut up. But you love
this country and freedom of speech, right?
They're not preaching evolution. They're teaching it in science class.
And, yes, I do love this country and freedom of speech. You're a
religious fanatic, practicing it like a cultist might, and you want to
force it on everyone else. Science isn't inserting itself where it
doesn't belong, and there's nothing wrong with teaching science in a
science class. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know all about how "intelligent
design" is presented as science, but it's not being presented by
SCIENTISTS as a science. It's an idea that some religious people have
concocted to create the suggestion of their theology -- and a
fundamentalist theology at that says the Bible is the infallible word of
God, a ridiculous claim on its face -- has some scientific backing.
I'm a Christian, by the way, but I know longer use that name to call
myself, so as to distance myself from the kooks.
Matthew 28:18-20
18) And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All
authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth. Mat 28:19 Therefore go
and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and
of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe
all things,
whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am
with you all the days until the end of the world.
Amen.
That doesn't sound too "private" to me.
The PRACTICE is private. Now, there're people everywhere proselytizing
it, but it doesn't belong in a cooking class, a health class, or a science
class. You don't have the right to IMPOSE these teachings on others. It
smacks of a "true religion." Like I said, live in the limelight while you
can, you right-wing zealot (our American Taliban, exactly). You people
are the problem in the world, not the solution. These are your desperate
death throes. Everyone has caught on to how dangerously stupid you are.
When this fails, you're done. The rest of the world has already
assimilated religion comfortably as a private affair. YOU decide how
you're going to develop your relationship with God. Your true religion is
true only to you. Everybody knows this except for people too stupid to
see a plain truth.
Alric Knebel
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
29 Nov 2005 11:47:03 PM |
|
|
Dore <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
The only thing that makes Evolution questionable to your right-wing
Christian types is that it contradicts a 5000-year-old world, which is how
old the Bible says the world is. I'm not particular fond or protective of
the THEORY of Evolution, but "Intelligent Design" has as much place in a
science class as Evolution has in a Sunday class.
Actually, "Intelligent Design" DOES belong in science class because, as I
said in a previous post, that science is the study of what God created in
the physical realm.
Any study of God is religion and not science.
In order to understand science, you have to understand
it's source, and it's source begins with God.
But God is impossible to understand.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
01 Dec 2005 05:38:17 PM |
|
|
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dmjecn$asf$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Any study of God is religion and not science.
Any studying leaving out the source of anything is worthless, since you will
only ever get part of the picture. It's like a puzzle with pieces missing,
you never get the finished product.
cont
But God is impossible to understand.
No, He is not, but you have to seek Him and His ways in order to receive
that wisdom and knowledge.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dmjecn$asf$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Dore <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
The only thing that makes Evolution questionable to your right-wing
Christian types is that it contradicts a 5000-year-old world, which is
how
old the Bible says the world is. I'm not particular fond or protective
of
the THEORY of Evolution, but "Intelligent Design" has as much place in a
science class as Evolution has in a Sunday class.
Actually, "Intelligent Design" DOES belong in science class because, as I
said in a previous post, that science is the study of what God created in
the physical realm.
Any study of God is religion and not science.
In order to understand science, you have to understand
it's source, and it's source begins with God.
But God is impossible to understand.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
01 Dec 2005 10:23:37 PM |
|
|
Dore <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Any study of God is religion and not science.
Any studying leaving out the source of anything is worthless,
Your psychotic delusions are not reality.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Alric Knebel" |
|
| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
04 Dec 2005 02:23:52 AM |
|
|
Dore wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dmjecn$asf$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Any study of God is religion and not science.
Any studying leaving out the source of anything is worthless, since you will
only ever get part of the picture. It's like a puzzle with pieces missing,
you never get the finished product.
No, and you never will. So you don't give up advancing humankind
because you won't ever understand everything.
But God is impossible to understand.
No, He is not, but you have to seek Him and His ways in order to receive
that wisdom and knowledge.
You arrogant AND stupid, a dangerous combination. If it was possible to
understand God, all we'd have to do is study and we'd all end up
worshipping exactly the same way. Like a said, bright boy: the theory
evolution dictates that stupid people can't long run things. These are
the death throes for your sort of ignorance in this country. It'll
persist in third world countries and in the Middle East, but this is it
for the United States. You've been empowered for a while, and we got a
look at what you'll do with the power -- which is to drag up the old
arguments that everyone else has already settled. I'm surprised you
don't propose that we're living on a flat earth.
Alric Knebel
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
09 Dec 2005 10:57:55 PM |
|
|
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11p59sofv70ric5@corp.supernews.com...
Any studying leaving out the source of anything is worthless, since you
will only ever get part of the picture. It's like a puzzle with pieces
missing, you never get the finished product.
No, and you never will. So you don't give up advancing humankind because
you won't ever understand everything.
Mankind doesn't advance because it loves and serves MONEY, instead of life
and the good for all mankind.
cont
No, He is not, but you have to seek Him and His ways in order to receive
that wisdom and knowledge.
You arrogant AND stupid, a dangerous combination. If it was possible to
understand God, all we'd have to do is study and we'd all end up
worshipping exactly the same way. Like a said, bright boy: the theory
evolution dictates that stupid people can't long run things. These are
the death throes for your sort of ignorance in this country. It'll
persist in third world countries and in the Middle East, but this is it
for the United States. You've been empowered for a while, and we got a
look at what you'll do with the power -- which is to drag up the old
arguments that everyone else has already settled. I'm surprised you don't
propose that we're living on a flat earth.
Understanding God begins with study, but doesn't amount to anything until
you put into practice what you study and LIVE IT. And if YOU weren't your
own god, and you actually did SEEK HIM and DO HIS will, you would worship
Him the same way, because goodness, truth and righteousness would be the
venue. The death throes of this country is it's greed, selfishness, sins,
violence, warmongering, thievery (namely capitalism), deceit,
powermongering, corruption, whoring, and it's many evils, sins, and lack of
obedience to God, of which you play a part and are partly responsible for
embracing and supporting it. The ONLY thing that is going to die in this
country are the wicked, evil people like you and the selfish, greedy,
violent, corrupt and powerlusting government that runs it. You may have
heard of Sodom and Gomorrah, get ready, what happened to them is going to
happen to you, destruction, just as evil demands in JUSTICE.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11p59sofv70ric5@corp.supernews.com...
Dore wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dmjecn$asf$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Any study of God is religion and not science.
Any studying leaving out the source of anything is worthless, since you
will only ever get part of the picture. It's like a puzzle with pieces
missing, you never get the finished product.
No, and you never will. So you don't give up advancing humankind because
you won't ever understand everything.
But God is impossible to understand.
No, He is not, but you have to seek Him and His ways in order to receive
that wisdom and knowledge.
You arrogant AND stupid, a dangerous combination. If it was possible to
understand God, all we'd have to do is study and we'd all end up
worshipping exactly the same way. Like a said, bright boy: the theory
evolution dictates that stupid people can't long run things. These are
the death throes for your sort of ignorance in this country. It'll
persist in third world countries and in the Middle East, but this is it
for the United States. You've been empowered for a while, and we got a
look at what you'll do with the power -- which is to drag up the old
arguments that everyone else has already settled. I'm surprised you don't
propose that we're living on a flat earth.
Alric Knebel
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Alric Knebel" |
|
| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
29 Nov 2005 08:45:47 PM |
|
|
Dore wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11ol0f3ihhnts0d@corp.supernews.com...
The only thing that makes Evolution questionable to your right-wing
Christian types is that it contradicts a 5000-year-old world, which is how
old the Bible says the world is. I'm not particular fond or protective of
the THEORY of Evolution, but "Intelligent Design" has as much place in a
science class as Evolution has in a Sunday class.
Actually, "Intelligent Design" DOES belong in science class because, as I
said in a previous post, that science is the study of what God created in
the physical realm. In order to understand science, you have to understand
it's source, and it's source begins with God.
That's RELIGION. Not science. The concept of God itself as YOU
understand it is completely subjective, whether you know it or not.
Here's the problem with you: You don't understand the objective of
science. They're not trying to find the PURPOSE in the universe. Only
the mechanics. Purpose is the domain of spirituality.
Evolution, on the other hand is limited to the facts, that there are certain
things that evolve from one thing to another according to environment,
necessity, as well as through the hand of God. These subjects are not
exclusive of each other. If you are teaching how God created and controls
the things created, then evolution, as how things have evolved from one
another, (not that man is descended from apelike creatures, because that is
NOT true, but conjecture by ungodly men of science), then certainly it
would belong in a Sunday school class as well, if you wanted to get that
deep into the subject matter.
Nonsense. Specious argument. The only thing you got right is that
Evolution is limited to the facts. Yes, that's what it professes to do
and nothing else.
cont
Science isn't inserting itself where it
doesn't belong, and there's nothing wrong with teaching science in a
science class. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know all about how "intelligent
design" is presented as science, but it's not being presented by
SCIENTISTS as a science. It's an idea that some religious people have
concocted to create the suggestion of their theology -- and a
fundamentalist theology at that says the Bible is the infallible word of
God, a ridiculous claim on its face -- has some scientific backing.
So what you are asserting is that you should teach the conjectures, theories
and hypothesis of MEN of science, which some have become taught as valid
truths, which they are not, WITHOUT teaching the truths of God's part in all
that exists? I hate to tell you this, but scientists DO NOT KNOW many
things, especially the origins of the Universe, the source of life, the age
of the earth, sun, moon or Universe, how planets, stars and celestial bodies
are created or basically anything about space,other than what they can see
from a telescope, and the age of these bodies, and yet they teach these
things all of the time and thus they are teaching lies. So to you, as long
as it is Scientists teaching science, it is OK, even if it is lies, but if
God is in the equation, teaching truths, you oppose it?
Some of the things science states are in fact truths. It wasn't the
Bible that gave us vaccines, and the people writing it didn't even
understand the concept of viruses. But viruses are a fact, a valid
truth. While scientists don't know everything, they know more about how
the universe works than the people who wrote the Bible. Look up
"Galileo" and you'll see what I mean.
The PRACTICE is private. Now, there're people everywhere proselytizing
it, but it doesn't belong in a cooking class, a health class, or a science
class. You don't have the right to IMPOSE these teachings on others. It
smacks of a "true religion." Like I said, live in the limelight while you
can, you right-wing zealot (our American Taliban, exactly). You people
are the problem in the world, not the solution. These are your desperate
death throes. Everyone has caught on to how dangerously stupid you are.
When this fails, you're done. The rest of the world has already
assimilated religion comfortably as a private affair. YOU decide how
you're going to develop your relationship with God. Your true religion is
true only to you. Everybody knows this except for people too stupid to
see a plain truth.
Actually, proselytizing belongs EVERYWHERE, because there is NOTHING more
important on this planet than attaining a personal relationship with your
Creator, and obeying His will. Everything else is just fluff of what God has
given. In fact, ALL men were given the commission to preach the good news to
everyone else.
No, proselytizing is part of YOUR theology, and placing such importance
on establishing a relationship with your creator is part of it. But
it's got nothing to do with reality. Establishing that relationship is
a private affair, and as such, it's specifics or even the choice to do
so is completely a private affair. Humble, self-aware, and intelligent
people understand the importance -- and the truth of that -- but it is
beyond some, and it's up to us to make sure that the minority don't
become tyrants. There are many religions that don't proselytize at all,
and they are more respectable and respected because of it. You can't
comprehend that, because you're a cultist. I know that, other people
know that, and you're the only person who doesn't know it. As a
cultist, you're more interested in preserving your cult for your weak
mind than you are in seeking truth. Your RELIGION dictates you have a
commission to preach, but that's all in your mind. It's theology, no
different and having no more authority than the faiths of others of your
ilk the world over; the Taliban for instance. Fundamentalist make a
mess out of every civilization they control. They're oppressive.
You're in your death throes, my friend. Revel in your time. Jesus is
NOT coming back.
Matt 10:27
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in
the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
KJV
So? The scriptures from the book on which you base your cult dictates
that. So what? I'll skip the rest. You live in a tautological
universe. At least you're more honest than your brethren: you're
admitting that it's all about proselytizing your cult. I'll skip the
rest. It's not like I haven't seen the silly argument before. "It's
true because the Bible says it's true." How do you know the Bible's
true. "Because the Bible says it is."
You can't really be expected to be taken seriously with that logic, do
you?
Alric Knebel
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
01 Dec 2005 05:36:08 PM |
|
|
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11oq4illp43m71d@corp.supernews.com...
That's RELIGION. Not science. The concept of God itself as YOU
understand it is completely subjective, whether you know it or not. Here's
the problem with you: You don't understand the objective of science.
They're not trying to find the PURPOSE in the universe. Only the
mechanics. Purpose is the domain of spirituality.
So, anything that doesn't involve the SOURCE and beginning of something can
be deemed as science, but when you talk about how something came into
existence and that God CREATED it, it becomes religion? The concept of God
as I KNOW it to be is NOT subjective, but FACT. You don't know who you are
talking to. The objective of science is to study every aspect of something,
and that INCLUDES it's beginning and source, for if you leave that out, then
you are limiting yourself, and not grasping the whole of a thing. Even
though God created the mechanics, the minute you mention God, you want to
exclude Him, because obviously, you have NO respect for Him or His work. ALL
subjects are related to each other in one form or another. Why limit
yourself to parts of a subject? Limiting yourself to only parts, means that
you will NEVER understand the WHOLE thing, mechanics and otherwise.
cont
Nonsense. Specious argument. The only thing you got right is that
Evolution is limited to the facts. Yes, that's what it professes to do
and nothing else.
I didn't say that evolution was limited to the facts, because the way
scientists teach evolution has little to do with facts, and mostly to do
with conjecture. I said evolution is limited to the facts OF certain things
evolving from one another, according to environment and necessity and the
only things that are known about it is the similarities that brings one into
the hypothesis that it evolved. Evolutionists professes to state fact, but
that is a lie, because as I said, it can ONLY be by conjecture and
hypothesis.
cont
Some of the things science states are in fact truths. It wasn't the Bible
that gave us vaccines, and the people writing it didn't even understand
the concept of viruses. But viruses are a fact, a valid truth. While
scientists don't know everything, they know more about how the universe
works than the people who wrote the Bible. Look up "Galileo" and you'll
see what I mean.
No, it wasn't the Bible that gave men the knowledge of vaccines, but it was
God, Himself, being merciful to the wicked, providing the knowledge and
wisdom to men of medical science to make cures for their infirmities, since
the righteous of God are cured miraculously. Scientists KNOW NOTHING about
how the Universe works, and only know what God will allow them to know,
regarding the physical things pertaining solely to the things of this
planet. The Bible provides a higher level of understanding of life and the
things of the Universe, for the righteous about things that the earthly,
ungodly men of science will NEVER know about.
cont
No, proselytizing is part of YOUR theology, and placing such importance on
establishing a relationship with your creator is part of it. But it's got
nothing to do with reality. Establishing that relationship is a private
affair, and as such, it's specifics or even the choice to do so is
completely a private affair. Humble, self-aware, and intelligent people
understand the importance -- and the truth of that -- but it is beyond
some, and it's up to us to make sure that the minority don't become
tyrants. There are many religions that don't proselytize at all, and they
are more respectable and respected because of it. You can't comprehend
that, because you're a cultist. I know that, other people know that, and
you're the only person who doesn't know it. As a cultist, you're more
interested in preserving your cult for your weak mind than you are in
seeking truth. Your RELIGION dictates you have a commission to preach,
but that's all in your mind. It's theology, no different and having no
more authority than the faiths of others of your ilk the world over; the
Taliban for instance. Fundamentalist make a mess out of every
civilization they control. They're oppressive. You're in your death
throes, my friend. Revel in your time. Jesus is NOT coming back.
No, proselytizing is part of the TRUTHS of GOD, who commanded it to His
servants and children. And the truths of God and His will and man's
relationship with Him is more REAL, than the small limited concepts of the
things of the physical realm. Of course a personal relationship with God is
a private affair, but to tell others about His grace, mercy, plan of
salvation, works, commands, demand and requirements for their souls is
necessary for those who haven't bothered beforehand to seek God and His
ways, so they can be warned, uplifted, comforted and most importantly saved
from hellfire. YOUR reality will pass away with the wind, but the souls of
men are eternal. I don't care about other religions because they are all
false and man-made. I am NOT a cultist, and you have NO idea of what I am
interested in, and it is arrogant and foolish of you to make that
assumption. Fact is, bubba, I have more truths in my little finger than you
will ever know in your whole lifetime. My RELIGION is GOD and HE makes ALL
of the rules, commands, and requirements, which includes teaching, preaching
as well as many other things, that you couldn't possibly understand. MY
AUTHORITY comes from GOD HIMSELF, and has NOTHING to do with other's faiths,
only HIS truths. The true righteous of God have NEVER controlled ANY
civilization, so it is clear that you don't know what you are talking about.
And, honey, Jesus has COME back, for I am HIM!
cont
So? The scriptures from the book on which you base your cult dictates
that. So what? I'll skip the rest. You live in a tautological universe.
At least you're more honest than your brethren: you're admitting that it's
all about proselytizing your cult. I'll skip the rest. It's not like I
haven't seen the silly argument before. "It's true because the Bible says
it's true." How do you know the Bible's true. "Because the Bible says it
is."
The WORD of God, the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE and ALL things in it, is the
basis of that book, and the scriptures that I have quoted are directly from
HIM. You have NO idea of what kind of Universe I live in and your rude and
obnoxious assumptions are ridiculous. What about YOUR cult of HATING GOD and
trying to remove HIS name and works from the world in which He created? You
live in a Universe of darkness, evil and Satanic influence, which you are
completely ignorant and blind to. And when I quote from the Bible, IT IS
TRUE, because I am the ONE who said it in the first place thousands of years
ago, like I said, you don't know to whom you are speaking.
cont
You can't really be expected to be taken seriously with that logic, do
you?
I don't use that logic and I would appreciate it if you would STOP making
assumptions about me and accusing me falsely. If you are NOT mature enough
to have an adult conversation and discussion, but are hell-bent on make
false assumptions and false accusations, then we can end this conversation
now, because clearly your stiff-neck and stubborn heart has NO ability to
reason.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11oq4illp43m71d@corp.supernews.com...
Dore wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11ol0f3ihhnts0d@corp.supernews.com...
The only thing that makes Evolution questionable to your right-wing
Christian types is that it contradicts a 5000-year-old world, which is
how old the Bible says the world is. I'm not particular fond or
protective of the THEORY of Evolution, but "Intelligent Design" has as
much place in a science class as Evolution has in a Sunday class.
Actually, "Intelligent Design" DOES belong in science class because, as I
said in a previous post, that science is the study of what God created in
the physical realm. In order to understand science, you have to
understand it's source, and it's source begins with God.
That's RELIGION. Not science. The concept of God itself as YOU
understand it is completely subjective, whether you know it or not. Here's
the problem with you: You don't understand the objective of science.
They're not trying to find the PURPOSE in the universe. Only the
mechanics. Purpose is the domain of spirituality.
Evolution, on the other hand is limited to the facts, that there are
certain things that evolve from one thing to another according to
environment, necessity, as well as through the hand of God. These
subjects are not exclusive of each other. If you are teaching how God
created and controls the things created, then evolution, as how things
have evolved from one another, (not that man is descended from apelike
creatures, because that is NOT true, but conjecture by ungodly men of
science), then certainly it would belong in a Sunday school class as
well, if you wanted to get that deep into the subject matter.
Nonsense. Specious argument. The only thing you got right is that
Evolution is limited to the facts. Yes, that's what it professes to do
and nothing else.
cont
Science isn't inserting itself where it
doesn't belong, and there's nothing wrong with teaching science in a
science class. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know all about how "intelligent
design" is presented as science, but it's not being presented by
SCIENTISTS as a science. It's an idea that some religious people have
concocted to create the suggestion of their theology -- and a
fundamentalist theology at that says the Bible is the infallible word of
God, a ridiculous claim on its face -- has some scientific backing.
So what you are asserting is that you should teach the conjectures,
theories and hypothesis of MEN of science, which some have become taught
as valid truths, which they are not, WITHOUT teaching the truths of God's
part in all that exists? I hate to tell you this, but scientists DO NOT
KNOW many things, especially the origins of the Universe, the source of
life, the age of the earth, sun, moon or Universe, how planets, stars and
celestial bodies are created or basically anything about space,other than
what they can see from a telescope, and the age of these bodies, and yet
they teach these things all of the time and thus they are teaching lies.
So to you, as long as it is Scientists teaching science, it is OK, even
if it is lies, but if God is in the equation, teaching truths, you oppose
it?
Some of the things science states are in fact truths. It wasn't the Bible
that gave us vaccines, and the people writing it didn't even understand
the concept of viruses. But viruses are a fact, a valid truth. While
scientists don't know everything, they know more about how the universe
works than the people who wrote the Bible. Look up "Galileo" and you'll
see what I mean.
The PRACTICE is private. Now, there're people everywhere proselytizing
it, but it doesn't belong in a cooking class, a health class, or a
science class. You don't have the right to IMPOSE these teachings on
others. It smacks of a "true religion." Like I said, live in the
limelight while you can, you right-wing zealot (our American Taliban,
exactly). You people are the problem in the world, not the solution.
These are your desperate death throes. Everyone has caught on to how
dangerously stupid you are. When this fails, you're done. The rest of
the world has already assimilated religion comfortably as a private
affair. YOU decide how you're going to develop your relationship with
God. Your true religion is true only to you. Everybody knows this
except for people too stupid to see a plain truth.
Actually, proselytizing belongs EVERYWHERE, because there is NOTHING more
important on this planet than attaining a personal relationship with your
Creator, and obeying His will. Everything else is just fluff of what God
has given. In fact, ALL men were given the commission to preach the good
news to everyone else.
No, proselytizing is part of YOUR theology, and placing such importance on
establishing a relationship with your creator is part of it. But it's got
nothing to do with reality. Establishing that relationship is a private
affair, and as such, it's specifics or even the choice to do so is
completely a private affair. Humble, self-aware, and intelligent people
understand the importance -- and the truth of that -- but it is beyond
some, and it's up to us to make sure that the minority don't become
tyrants. There are many religions that don't proselytize at all, and they
are more respectable and respected because of it. You can't comprehend
that, because you're a cultist. I know that, other people know that, and
you're the only person who doesn't know it. As a cultist, you're more
interested in preserving your cult for your weak mind than you are in
seeking truth. Your RELIGION dictates you have a commission to preach,
but that's all in your mind. It's theology, no different and having no
more authority than the faiths of others of your ilk the world over; the
Taliban for instance. Fundamentalist make a mess out of every
civilization they control. They're oppressive. You're in your death
throes, my friend. Revel in your time. Jesus is NOT coming back.
Matt 10:27
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear
in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
KJV
So? The scriptures from the book on which you base your cult dictates
that. So what? I'll skip the rest. You live in a tautological universe.
At least you're more honest than your brethren: you're admitting that it's
all about proselytizing your cult. I'll skip the rest. It's not like I
haven't seen the silly argument before. "It's true because the Bible says
it's true." How do you know the Bible's true. "Because the Bible says it
is."
You can't really be expected to be taken seriously with that logic, do
you?
Alric Knebel
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
01 Dec 2005 10:23:15 PM |
|
|
Dore <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
That's RELIGION. Not science. The concept of God itself as YOU
understand it is completely subjective, whether you know it or not. Here's
the problem with you: You don't understand the objective of science.
They're not trying to find the PURPOSE in the universe. Only the
mechanics. Purpose is the domain of spirituality.
So, anything that doesn't involve the SOURCE and beginning of something can
be deemed as science, but when you talk about how something came into
Your delusions are not related to science.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Alric Knebel" |
|
| Title: Re: Even Salon Magazine wants ROCK MUSIC Banned |
04 Dec 2005 02:18:35 AM |
|
|
Dore wrote:
"Alric Knebel" <alric@[cableone.net]> wrote in message
news:11oq4illp43m71d@corp.supernews.com...
That's RELIGION. Not science. The concept of God itself as YOU
understand it is completely subjective, whether you know it or not. Here's
the problem with you: You don't understand the objective of science.
They're not trying to find the PURPOSE in the universe. Only the
mechanics. Purpose is the domain of spirituality.
So, anything that doesn't involve the SOURCE and beginning of something can
be deemed as science, but when you talk about how something came into
existence and that God CREATED it, it becomes religion? The concept of God
as I KNOW it to be is NOT subjective, but FACT. You don't know who you are
talking to. The objective of science is to study every aspect of something,
and that INCLUDES it's beginning and source, for if you leave that out, then
you are limiting yourself, and not grasping the whole of a thing. Even
though God created the mechanics, the minute you mention God, you want to
exclude Him, because obviously, you have NO respect for Him or His work. ALL
subjects are related to each other in one form or another. Why limit
yourself to parts of a subject? Limiting yourself to only parts, means that
you will NEVER understand the WHOLE thing, mechanics and otherwise.
Man, you are some kind of thick, using logic like this. First, you're
completely detached from reality. Because of your spiritual arrogance,
your self-righteousness, you can't see yourself. You understanding is
SUBJECTIVE, not fact. Just because you're sworn to an idea doesn't mean
you can just convert it from conjecture -- and that's what you practice,
a faith-based conjecture -- to fact, just by your belief in it. Look at
the world, you nut. It's full of people just like you, using the same
thought processes, and some of them have the absolute conviction that
YOU are an infidel, worshipping incorrectly. What we've got here is a
person such as yourself, with the commitment to truth necessary to ask
the honest question, that YOU might be exactly like the men flying
planes into buildings. I mean, they believed God was guiding them to
it, and no amount of rationalizing with them could get them to change
their minds. That's the most extreme expression of faith, but there are
other religions with practitioners as certain in their belief as you
are. It's so obvious what I'm saying, you have to have a mental defect
not to understand it. You're no different that these others
fundamentalists. NO different. To prop yourself up, you keep falling
on the SOURCE of your ideas, your faith in it, that your FAITH in an
idea somehow transforms your ideology into a fact, and elevates it above
OTHER religious faiths, despite that fact that the adherents have
elevated THEIR faiths using the identical argument. And you guys expect
us sensible, reasonable people to respect that form of thinking. It's
ridiculous. To top it off, you don't have any respect for anyone else.
You picture yourself as part of some spiritual elite, and the rest of
are evil doers. Your NEED for this belief is what causes your
blindness, and what the rest of us see in you, that you're mentally a
coward, so weak that you need an all-powerful god with whom you can
align yourself so you can feel safe and -- more important -- CHOSEN in
the world. You've got a sense of self-importance that you want
validated.
As for your other point, you're not scientist, so you have no business
dictating from your religious beliefs what scientists' directives should
be. Scientists seek to learn about the world. If it ultimately points
to an existence of God, then they'll go where the evidence dictates. But
the understanding of, say, germs can be adequate to be useful without
understanding the cosmic sources of germs. The objective of science is
to find out how things work, but the PURPOSE of the universe is the
domain of philosophers. And preachers.
Nonsense. Specious argument. The only thing you got right is that
Evolution is limited to the facts. Yes, that's what it professes to do
and nothing else.
I didn't say that evolution was limited to the facts, because the way
scientists teach evolution has little to do with facts, and mostly to do
with conjecture. I said evolution is limited to the facts OF certain things
evolving from one another, according to environment and necessity and the
only things that are known about it is the similarities that brings one into
the hypothesis that it evolved. Evolutionists professes to state fact, but
that is a lie, because as I said, it can ONLY be by conjecture and
hypothesis.
Yes, and scientists call it the THEORY of Evolution. It's a THEORY.
When proof comes along that establishes a different outlook, scientists
have the ability to give up the old idea. Unlike religious fanatics,
for whom growth is impossible, and must cling to an outmoded
superstitious, theological view of the world regardless of the facts.
Here's one of them: All fundamentalists, regardless of the religion, are
alike. They posit the same identical arguments -- even against EACH
OTHER -- and are unable to make the simple observation that they're
doing precisely the same thing. They're incapable of looking at the
facts, and the fact is, the other guy's argument is exactly the same.
That's how I know you're a cultist. You can't see a thing, not even the
simplest thing. What I'm talking about is so simple, it doesn't take a
genius to comprehend the truth of it.
Some of the things science states are in fact truths. It wasn't the Bible
that gave us vaccines, and the people writing it didn't even understand
the concept of viruses. But viruses are a fact, a valid truth. While
scientists don't know everything, they know more about how the universe
works than the people who wrote the Bible. Look up "Galileo" and you'll
see what I mean.
No, it wasn't the Bible that gave men the knowledge of vaccines, but it was
God, Himself, being merciful to the wicked, providing the knowledge and
wisdom to men of medical science to make cures for their infirmities, since
the righteous of God are cured miraculously. Scientists KNOW NOTHING about
how the Universe works, and only know what God will allow them to know,
regarding the physical things pertaining solely to the things of this
planet. The Bible provides a higher level of understanding of life and the
things of the Universe, for the righteous about things that the earthly,
ungodly men of science will NEVER know about.
"Ungodly men of science"; "what God will allow them to know." You sound
ridiculous (and I know exactly what scripture you could quote to respond
to that). First, scientists are wrong for learning about the universe.
Second, they're not ungodly. Third, the Bible provides nothing in the
way of a higher level of understanding of life and things of the
Universe, and just your offhanded observations prove my point. You
don't know anything about anything. You're to afraid to look at
yourself, and you don't make sound observations about people. You don't
need the Bible to achieve a higher level of understanding. You don't.
You're just to sick and weak to accomplish it on your own, and I'm
telling you this: If you can't do it on your own, you can't do it with
the Bible either.
No, proselytizing is part of YOUR theology, and placing such importance on
establishing a relationship with your creator is part of it. But it's got
nothing to do with reality. Establishing that relationship is a private
affair, and as such, it's specifics or even the choice to do so is
completely a private affair. Humble, self-aware, and intelligent people
understand the importance -- and the truth of that -- but it is beyond
some, and it's up to us to make sure that the minority don't become
tyrants. There are many religions that don't proselytize at all, and they
are more respectable and respected because of it. You can't comprehend
that, because you're a cultist. I know that, other people know that, and
you're the only person who doesn't know it. As a cultist, you're more
interested in preserving your cult for your weak mind than you are in
seeking truth. Your RELIGION dictates you have a commission to preach,
but that's all in your mind. It's theology, no different and having no
more authority than the faiths of others of your ilk the world over; the
Taliban for instance. Fundamentalist make a mess out of every
civilization they control. They're oppressive. You're in your death
throes, my friend. Revel in your time. Jesus is NOT coming back.
No, proselytizing is part of the TRUTHS of GOD, who commanded it to His
servants and children. And the truths of God and His will and man's
relationship with Him is more REAL, than the small limited concepts of the
things of the physical realm. Of course a personal relationship with God is
a private affair, but to tell others about His grace, mercy, plan of
salvation, works, commands, demand and requirements for their souls is
necessary for those who haven't bothered beforehand to seek God and His
ways, so they can be warned, uplifted, comforted and most importantly saved
from hellfire. YOUR reality will pass away with the wind, but the souls of
men are eternal. I don't care about other religions because they are all
false and man-made. I am NOT a cultist, and you have NO idea of what I am
interested in, and it is arrogant and foolish of you to make that
assumption. Fact is, bubba, I have more truths in my little finger than you
will ever know in your whole lifetime. My RELIGION is GOD and HE makes ALL
of the rules, commands, and requirements, which includes teaching, preaching
as well as many other things, that you couldn't possibly understand. MY
AUTHORITY comes from GOD HIMSELF, and has NOTHING to do with other's faiths,
only HIS truths. The true righteous of God have NEVER controlled ANY
civilization, so it is clear that you don't know what you are talking about.
And, honey, Jesus has COME back, for I am HIM!
So did Buddha. Your religion is NOT God. To go on, because your
personal relationship is based on a cult, your THEOLOGY dictates that
you preach it to others. But it's not really necessary to do all that
preaching and follow all those rules to have that personal relationship
with God. That's your RELIGION. You have no real authority other than
what your misunderstanding of God, based on your THEOLOGY, dictates to
you. MY belief and personal relationship with God tells me that any
claim to a true religion is the concept from a FALSE religion. You
practice your religion like a backwards native, extolling a primitive
religion requiring a human sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. Your
ideas are as crude as the ideas of any fundamentalist any | | | | | | | | |
