In article <1134110660.909293.182870@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

Gaia wrote:

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 21:14:42 -0500, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote:

"George" <ggains@waddfr.edu> wrote in message
news:200512081552158930%ggains@waddfredu...

On 2005-12-08 11:52:15 -0800, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> said:

Reasoned Insanity wrote:

"George" <ggains@waddfr.edu> wrote in message
news:2005120717543350073%ggains@waddfredu...

On 2005-12-07 17:30:25 -0800, "Reasoned Insanity"
<mintclovers@yahoo.com>
said:

"George" <ggains@waddfr.edu> wrote in message
news:2005120715370216807%ggains@waddfredu...

< http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/07/airplane.gunshot/index.html>

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- A 44-year-old U.S. citizen who claimed to
have a
bomb was shot and killed when air marshals opened fire on a boarding
bridge at the Miami airport, several sources told CNN.

Looks like the guys nanny should have kept a better eye on him and
made
sure that he took his meds. Had this been a real bomber and the air
marshal acted differently than he did, lots of people could have
died.

If this and if that. The guy reach in his bag and they murdered him
for
it.

Nice misleading subject name you put down. I would say that you are
destroying your credibility, but you have none.

Typical republican "pro-life" *****. They gunned down an innocent
man.
When youy have cops like that, they should be fired and force to be
prison
guards the rest of their lives.

Typical liberal *****, claiming that everyone is innocent but just
victim of
bad circumstances. Are you pissed because they guy did his job or what?

That's exactly what his problem is. As tragic as this incident is, the
Air Marshal was completely justified in his actions and did EXACTLY
what he was trained to do.

Kill innocent people?

How the hell was he supposed to know?

Well, everybody knows now.

That's not what I am asking you. How was he supposed to know then?

Note that Osprey is saying that if a police officer doesn't know one
way or another he should just assume you are dangerous. This is why
Osprey will never be allowed to be a real police office. If you don't
know you don't assume the person is armed and kill them.

It's like the situation I tried to describe with a police officer. A

police officer pulls over a car, he or she has absolutely NO IDEA who
the occupants in that car are.

It goes with t he job. If you don't have the courage for it you

shouldn't be a police officer. Try being a guard.

Have you ever noticed, the police

officer usually has their hand in a ready position to draw their
weapon?

Oh, brother. The guard now thinks he understands police tactics.

Plus they don't do that.

That's why people are told, when a police officer says don't
move...DON'T MOVE!!!

Because if they are like Osprey or these "Air Marshals", they will get

scared if you do and shoot you.

Sometimes, that officer..just like that Air Marshal has about 1/10th of

a second to make a decision.

You are exaggerating. But what is new?

As for having a very short time frame to decide what to do, the same
can be said for the person they are speaking to, and they KNOW the
other person is armed and dangerous.

I can't speak for a police officer, but I can speak as a correctional

officer who knows how it feels to have that knot in your stomach or to
feel your own heart beat when you are in a situation and you have a
loaded weapon.

Osprey isn't allowed to have a loaded weapon in his job.

Try escorting an inmate down a hallway in court that is

full of people.

Who shackled with handcuffs, leg irons, and a belly chain. Sounds

scary! They then take these same inmates and place them in a holding
tank with many other inmates. All the inmates are then unchained.
Later, an unarmed attorney goes into the room of unchained inmates and
speaks to his client. But Osprey believes it takes guts to walk down a
public hall with a chained inmate!

You don't know who those people are, they could be

relatives..you don't know.

But you know they aren't armed.

You never know when that time might come

when someone is going to try to help that inmate escape and you..as the
officer can get killed.

Fear is a very big thing in Osprey's life.

<snip>


I don't care what Barnes says...he is full of crap when he says that

any time an officer draws his or her weapon, they lost control.

Idiot. This is why you aren't a real police officer. Drawing your

weapon means you have lost control of the situation - there is no other
explaination.

Osprey wants to use it to make up for his short comings.

was a DEAD give away that he was NEVER a police officer.

Nah. It is just a dead giveaway why you could never be a real police

officer. You feel your weapon is for control and not self defense.

lol! It really bother him that you were a police officer. Probably
because he wishes he was one, too.

officers, Correctional Officers, Air Marshal's...and so forth are
trained EXTENSIVELY. It's INSTINCT, and that's exactly what this Air
Marshal had done..he went from instinct.

And killed an innocent man. And the White House says this is excusable

because he was trained to do this. Some excuse. If they are training
their people to shoot first and ask questions later, that is really
poor training.

I agree. The WH seems to be saying that because they train air
marshals to kill without thinking, this air marshals killing without
think is acceptable.

circumstances from what we know right now, the Air Marshal was
justified in his action.

Ever notice he never says, "It is unfortunate that an innocent fetus is

dead, but given the circumstances the woman was justified in her
actions?"

Yeah - it is part of his selective idea of right and wrong.

he felt he had to act "NOW".

And he killed an innocent unarmed man who never said he had a bomb. If

the Air Marshal can't handle the job he should become a guard at a
prison.

lol! Right! Sadly, most peopel who go into law enforcement seem to do
so because they feel the need for power.

just waited that split second.

You could say the same about anyone at an airport. I suppose we should

kill them, too. He had no proof, and or reason to believe the
passenger had a bomb. The only thing different about this guy from any
other passenger was he was agitated and kept saying "I have to get off
the plane."

Furthermore, when the Air Marshals told him to leave the plane he
cooperated and left the plane. Also, chances are high that if he had
brought a bomb to the airport, the x-ray machines would have picked it
up so the likelihood he had a bomb was very low. The Air Marshals
paniced - pure and simple - or they believed as Osprey does, that their
weapon is for control and not self defense.
The bottom line is this. The terrorists are winning. They have scared
the Republican Party so badly that they have now implemented policies
where we are killing out own people out of fear. First it was Pat
Tillman, then Rigoberto Alpizar, and of course, thousands of American
Soldiers. This is what happens when you let cowards run your
government.

This is an excellent point and it goes to the insidious nature of
allowing the GOP to scare people. You are correct. People are dying
everyday because the Bush Administration wnats this country to be so
scared they are willing to vote for the pro-military, pro-death
penalty, pro-war, republicans. By the middle of next year, Bush will
have killed and injured more Americans than Osma Bin Laden. And this
guy on the plane didn't need to die.

You could say the same about anyone at an airport. I suppose we should
kill them, too. He had no proof, and or reason to believe the
passenger had a bomb. The only thing different about this guy from any
other passenger was he was agitated and kept saying "I have to get off
the plane."

Furthermore, when the Air Marshals told him to leave the plane he
cooperated and left the plane. Also, chances are high that if he had
brought a bomb to the airport, the x-ray machines would have picked it
up so the likelihood he had a bomb was very low. The Air Marshals
paniced - pure and simple - or they believed as Osprey does, that their
weapon is for control and not self defense.

MAYBE the shooting of U.S. citizen Rigorberto Alpizar was justified,
but his KILLING seems to have been unnecessary. This time, no innocent
people were shot. Next time, maybe not. Air marshals need more
training to prevent a future disaster.

Supposedly (it's being investigated), Mr. Alpizar said or shouted he
had a bomb. What if he did have a bomb in his briefcase? Shooting to
kill might well have caused detonation of the explosive, possibly
killing/wounding other people on the plane or the "jetway."

Marshals should be trained to shoot to disable in such cases,
preferably with non-lehtal bullets or other quick-action devices.
Otherwise, they could gain a reputation as trigger-happy killlers. The
U.S. doesn't need a new corps of killers to go with its image as a home
for out-of-control gun possession, illegal warfare, prisoner torture
and murder.

The Miami case is far from over. And you can bet the lawyers, if not
the petitioners, will be well-compensated.