Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters

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Topic:	Science > Abortion
User:	"Papa Jack"
Date:	01 May 2004 10:53:35 AM
Object:	Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters

On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."
Http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/01/State/Abortion_bill_for_min.shtml
__________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"Florida lawmakers late Friday sent a controversial measure
to the November ballot that could require girls to obtain
parental notification before getting an abortion.
[...]
"'This is principled leadership, this is the defining moment
for us,' said bill co-sponsor Rep. Sandra Murman, R-Tampa.
'Parents deserve the right to go and vote this November on
this issue. They need to know what our children are doing.'
"But about 11 p.m. Friday, the House acquiesced, passing the
measure by a vote of 93-24, along party lines.
"The Senate already has passed the bill, 27-13.
[...]
"Last fall, the court ruled that a 1999 law requiring parental
notification also violated the privacy rights of minors as
guaranteed by the state Constitution.
[...]
__________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.
Nationwide polls previously indicated strong majorities
supported such laws.
Thanks for considering my point of view.
.

User: "David W. Barnes"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	01 May 2004 11:11:14 AM

In article <6f9e1b49.0405010753.6f2b0e89@posting.google.com>, Papa Jack
<papajack@stic.net> wrote:

On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

Http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/01/State/Abortion_bill_for_min.shtml
__________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:

"Florida lawmakers late Friday sent a controversial measure
to the November ballot that could require girls to obtain
parental notification before getting an abortion.
[...]

"'This is principled leadership, this is the defining moment
for us,' said bill co-sponsor Rep. Sandra Murman, R-Tampa.
'Parents deserve the right to go and vote this November on
this issue. They need to know what our children are doing.'

"But about 11 p.m. Friday, the House acquiesced, passing the
measure by a vote of 93-24, along party lines.

"The Senate already has passed the bill, 27-13.
[...]

"Last fall, the court ruled that a 1999 law requiring parental
notification also violated the privacy rights of minors as
guaranteed by the state Constitution.
[...]

__________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

Nationwide polls previously indicated strong majorities
supported such laws.

Thanks for considering my point of view.

And here is what Propaganda Jack cut:
Some conservative Christian groups said they did not oppose some
judicial exceptions.
"Judicial bypass has never been a problem with us," said Carole
Griffin, a lobbyist for Eagle Forum of Florida, a conservative
Christian group. "We've never tried to sidestep protecting the life of
a mother.
Propaganda Jack HATES protecting the mother...
.

User: "Papa Jack"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	03 May 2004 05:36:12 PM

"David W. Barnes" <VoteKerry@dbarnes.com> wrote in message
news:<010520040911146722%VoteKerry@dbarnes.com>...

Papa Jack <papajack@stic.net> wrote:

=============================================================================

Papa Jack cited:
On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

Http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/01/State/Abortion_bill_for_min.shtml
__________________________________________________________________________

Excerpts:

"Florida lawmakers late Friday sent a controversial measure
to the November ballot that could require girls to obtain
parental notification before getting an abortion.
[...]

"'This is principled leadership, this is the defining moment
for us,' said bill co-sponsor Rep. Sandra Murman, R-Tampa.
'Parents deserve the right to go and vote this November on
this issue. They need to know what our children are doing.'

"But about 11 p.m. Friday, the House acquiesced, passing the
measure by a vote of 93-24, along party lines.

"The Senate already has passed the bill, 27-13.
[...]

"Last fall, the court ruled that a 1999 law requiring parental
notification also violated the privacy rights of minors as
guaranteed by the state Constitution.
[...]

__________________________________________________________________________

Papa Jack commented:
This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

Nationwide polls previously indicated strong majorities
supported such laws.

Thanks for considering my point of view.

=============================================================================

David W. Barnes" wrote:
And here is what Propaganda Jack cut:

Some conservative Christian groups said they did
not oppose some judicial exceptions.

=============================================================================
Papa Jack asked:
Since the above is part of what YOU quoted, why didn't
you use quotation marks to show that?
=============================================================================

David W. Barnes" wrote:
"Judicial bypass has never been a problem with us," said Carole
Griffin, a lobbyist for Eagle Forum of Florida, a conservative
Christian group. "We've never tried to sidestep protecting the
life of a mother.

Propaganda Jack HATES protecting the mother...

=============================================================================
Papa Jack stated:
Now that's a total and complete lie, David. But,
when you don't have the facts on your side, use
insults and emotional appeals -- isn't that what
they taught you in law school, David?
First, I've repeatedly posted messages in which
I clearly stated I support making abortion avail-
able in cases involving rape, incest, or grave
risk to the life of the mother. In fact, the
majority of Pro-Lifers agree with making such
exceptions.
As far as judicial bypasses go, I have no prob-
lem with including judicial bypass provision in
parental nvolvement laws. However, I've read
that some liberal judges misuse the provisions
to grant such bypass authorizations to any and
all who apply. That bothers me.
Another point which bothers me is how the laws
on statutary rape are ignored in too many juris-
dictions. One of the key arguments for having
parental involvement laws is to keep older men
who prey on young girls for sex from using
abortions to hide the evidence of their crimes.
Thanks for considering my point of view.
.

User: "David W. Barnes"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	04 May 2004 02:09:50 AM

In article <6f9e1b49.0405031436.27c9954b@posting.google.com>, Papa Jack
<papajack@stic.net> wrote:

"David W. Barnes" <VoteKerry@dbarnes.com> wrote in message
news:<010520040911146722%VoteKerry@dbarnes.com>...

Papa Jack <papajack@stic.net> wrote:

=============================================================================

Papa Jack cited:
On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

Http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/01/State/Abortion_bill_for_min.shtml
__________________________________________________________________________

Excerpts:

"Florida lawmakers late Friday sent a controversial measure
to the November ballot that could require girls to obtain
parental notification before getting an abortion.
[...]

"But about 11 p.m. Friday, the House acquiesced, passing the
measure by a vote of 93-24, along party lines.

"The Senate already has passed the bill, 27-13.
[...]

"Last fall, the court ruled that a 1999 law requiring parental
notification also violated the privacy rights of minors as
guaranteed by the state Constitution.
[...]

__________________________________________________________________________

Papa Jack commented:
This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

Nationwide polls previously indicated strong majorities
supported such laws.

Thanks for considering my point of view.

=============================================================================

David W. Barnes" wrote:
And here is what Propaganda Jack cut:

Some conservative Christian groups said they did
not oppose some judicial exceptions.

=============================================================================
Papa Jack asked:
Since the above is part of what YOU quoted, why didn't
you use quotation marks to show that?

No need. I made it quite clear. You understood it without a problem.

=============================================================================

Propaganda Jack HATES protecting the mother...

What they taught me in law school was look at the facts. For some
reason you cut that part. Why would you do that?

First, I've repeatedly posted messages in which
I clearly stated I support making abortion avail-
able in cases involving rape, incest, or grave
risk to the life of the mother. In fact, the
majority of Pro-Lifers agree with making such
exceptions.

So if the doctor agrees the woman is at risk for some health related
reason you support abortion? Don't think so...

As far as judicial bypasses go, I have no prob-
lem with including judicial bypass provision in
parental nvolvement laws. However, I've read
that some liberal judges misuse the provisions
to grant such bypass authorizations to any and
all who apply. That bothers me.

I feel the same way about conservative judges.

Another point which bothers me is how the laws
on statutary rape are ignored in too many juris-
dictions. One of the key arguments for having
parental involvement laws is to keep older men
who prey on young girls for sex from using
abortions to hide the evidence of their crimes.

How does that hide any evidence? Besides, you just said you support
abortion in the case of rape.

Thanks for considering my point of view.

User: "Joseph P. Belk"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - protect mothers	02 May 2004 12:47:28 AM

On Sat, 01 May 2004 09:11:14 -0700, "David W. Barnes"
<VoteKerry@dbarnes.com> wrote:

In article <6f9e1b49.0405010753.6f2b0e89@posting.google.com>, Papa Jack
<papajack@stic.net> wrote:

On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

Http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/01/State/Abortion_bill_for_min.shtml
__________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:

"Florida lawmakers late Friday sent a controversial measure
to the November ballot that could require girls to obtain
parental notification before getting an abortion.
[...]

"'This is principled leadership, this is the defining moment
for us,' said bill co-sponsor Rep. Sandra Murman, R-Tampa.
'Parents deserve the right to go and vote this November on
this issue. They need to know what our children are doing.'

"But about 11 p.m. Friday, the House acquiesced, passing the
measure by a vote of 93-24, along party lines.

"The Senate already has passed the bill, 27-13.
[...]

"Last fall, the court ruled that a 1999 law requiring parental
notification also violated the privacy rights of minors as
guaranteed by the state Constitution.
[...]

__________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

Nationwide polls previously indicated strong majorities
supported such laws.

Thanks for considering my point of view.

And here is what Propaganda Jack cut:

Doesn't the word "excerpt" mean "material has been cut out"?
David Barnes makes a ludicrous leap to judgement when he attributes a
motive of propaganda to Papa Jack's selectivity in choosing which
excerpts he would reproduce. After all, David Barnes obviously used
the link provided by Papa Jack to the full text of the original
article. How does that link square with any charge of biased editing?
The dishonest propaganda here is properly identified as David Barnes'.

Some conservative Christian groups said they did not oppose some
judicial exceptions.

"Judicial bypass has never been a problem with us," said Carole
Griffin, a lobbyist for Eagle Forum of Florida, a conservative
Christian group. "We've never tried to sidestep protecting the life of
a mother.

Quite correct as far as the alternate quotes go, and quite irrelevant
as support for David Barnes' specious allegations. Barnes is clearly
reacting out of personal malice, ad hominem, rather that reacting
honestly to the information provided.

Propaganda Jack HATES protecting the mother...

Since abortion hurts the mother seriously, always taking years off her
life expectancy and sometimes killing her outright, clearly Papa Jack
is the one showing concern for mothers here and not David Barnes.
Parental consent laws significantly reduce both the rate of abortions
among minors and the rate of pregnancies. Abortions as a fraction of
all pregnancies is reduced while the number of live children born to
the same group may also be reduced, due to fewer pregnancies among
minors. It appears that abstinence actually provides some of the
social benefits that so-called "safe sex" promised. How do the radical
supporters for abortion react to the benign effects of parental
consent policies? More excerpts from the original article:
"The proposal marks the Legislature's third attempt to make it more
difficult for minors to get abortions.
"In 1989, the state Supreme Court struck down a law that required a
minor to get a parent's consent to an abortion.
"Last fall, the court ruled that a 1999 law requiring parental
notification also violated the privacy rights of minors as guaranteed
by the state Constitution.
"Groups such as the Florida Association of Planned Parenthood
Affiliates opposed both the House and Senate versions of parental
notification, regardless of judicial exceptions.
"And several House Democrats argued against the bill, one last time.
"'It's pretty terrible that we're taking it up this late at the end
of a very long session,' said Rep. Dan Gelber, D-Miami Beach."
[end excerpts]
Since parental consent laws are enormously popular (usually supported
by over 70% of voters polled) both radical abortion advocates like
Planned Parenthood and the (usually clueless Democrat) legislators
that follow their party line are losing ground. Isn't it remarkable
how the excesses of activist pro-death judges create the public
climate for further restrictions on abortion in the legislatures?
It will be interesting to see by just how wide a margin this Florida
state referendum wins when citizens actually get to vote. I predict
the margin for passing parental consent will even exceed the margin by
which George Bush will carry Florida in November.
Political candidates should all be pro-life. The consistent positive
impact on votes received swings many elections, so why would any
candidate accept the "pro-choice" albatross around the neck?
Joseph P. Belk
*************************************************************************************
A short book review follows. Buy this book if you know anyone who has
had an abortion, especially if you have had an abortion. Read this
book if you want to understand how abortion has hurt every woman who
ever tried it.
[From the book:] Linda described her abortion as follows:
"I was fully awake, no pills given, or shots. I lay there with tears
rolling down my face. The room was cool. My tears felt like fire on my
face, cutting it, slice by slice, tear by tear. My hands were wet with
sweat; My right hand squeezed the counselor's thin, cold hand as
though squeezing the life out of her. My left hand lay fisted,
clenched tightly on my vibrating stomach as the abortion occurred. It
felt as though someone was raping me with a 15-Amp canister vacuum
hose with no mercy as I lay there helpless, crying calmly, as if
agreeing to be raped."
_Forbidden Grief: The Unspoken Pain of Abortion_, Theresa K. Burke,
Ph.D. and David C. Reardon, Ph.D. 2001. Springfield, IL: Acorn Books
(p. 114).
This text can be ordered from Acorn Books, P. O. Box 7348,
Springfield, IL 62791-7348.
*************************************************************************************
.

User: "Paul Anderson"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	01 May 2004 12:02:40 PM

On 1 May 2004 08:53:35 -0700,

(Papa Jack) wrote:
....

This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

As is normal for "Pro-Lifers" this amendment will do more than merely
require parental notification of abortion.
The actual wording of the amendment is:
".... the Legislature is authorized to require by general law for
notification to a parent or guardian of a minor before the
termination of the minor's pregnancy...."
Birth is the termination of a minor's pregnancy -- an event that
emancipates the minor from all parental control. This bill would
authorize forced abortions to be performed on minors, if the parents
demand such. AFAIK, Papa Jack is the only person in talk.abortion to
have actually supported such a forced abortion.
.

User: "Papa Jack"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	03 May 2004 05:49:39 PM

elcoyote@netzero.net (Paul Anderson) wrote in message
news:<4093d5e0.231382285@news.la.sbcglobal.net>...

papajack@stic.net (Papa Jack) wrote:

==========================================================================

Papa Jack cited:
On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

Http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/01/State/Abortion_bill_for_min.shtml
__________________________________________________________________________

Excerpts:
"Florida lawmakers late Friday sent a controversial measure
to the November ballot that could require girls to obtain
parental notification before getting an abortion.

[...]
__________________________________________________________________________

Papa Jack commented:
This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.
Nationwide polls previously indicated strong majorities
supported such laws.

==========================================================================

El Coyote wrote:
As is normal for "Pro-Lifers" this amendment will do more
than merely require parental notification of abortion.

The actual wording of the amendment is:

".... the Legislature is authorized to require by general
law for notification to a parent or guardian of a minor
before the termination of the minor's pregnancy...."

Birth is the termination of a minor's pregnancy -- an event
that emancipates the minor from all parental control. This
bill would authorize forced abortions to be performed on
minors, if the parents demand such. AFAIK, Papa Jack is the
only person in talk.abortion to have actually supported such
a forced abortion.

==========================================================================
Papa Jack laughed:
You really are a sleazy character, aren't you, Coyote?
You almost never play it straight here on talk.aborition.
You seem to get more enjoyment out of twisting what folks
really say out of context -- and then presenting it in a
way to deceive the readers.
Yep, I said I would support the parents' right to determine
what "MEDICAL CARE" their underage daughters needed. If
a teen daughter was raped and then the attending doctor
advised against allowing the pregnancy and birth (because
of her physical immaturity), I would support the parents'
right to determine the "MEDICAL CARE" needed. If that
was an abortion, so be it.
I also support parents' right to authorize surgery for a
busted appendix -- even if the child is screaming and
crying in fear. See how totally cruel I am?
.

User: "Paul Anderson"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	03 May 2004 09:22:37 PM

On 3 May 2004 15:49:39 -0700,

(Papa Jack) wrote:

elcoyote@netzero.net (Paul Anderson) wrote in message
news:<4093d5e0.231382285@news.la.sbcglobal.net>...

(Papa Jack) wrote:

==========================================================================

Papa Jack cited:
On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

Http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/01/State/Abortion_bill_for_min.shtml
__________________________________________________________________________

Excerpts:

"Florida lawmakers late Friday sent a controversial measure
to the November ballot that could require girls to obtain
parental notification before getting an abortion.

[...]
__________________________________________________________________________

Papa Jack commented:
This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

Nationwide polls previously indicated strong majorities
supported such laws.

==========================================================================

El Coyote wrote:
As is normal for "Pro-Lifers" this amendment will do more
than merely require parental notification of abortion.

The actual wording of the amendment is:

".... the Legislature is authorized to require by general
law for notification to a parent or guardian of a minor
before the termination of the minor's pregnancy...."

Here's the Context: Others can judge for themselves:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=35B12966.3D620988%40geocities.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	04 May 2004 01:36:36 AM

Paul Anderson <elcoyote@netzero.net> wrote:

papajack@stic.net (Papa Jack) wrote:

elcoyote@netzero.net (Paul Anderson) wrote in message
Birth is the termination of a minor's pregnancy -- an event
that emancipates the minor from all parental control. This
bill would authorize forced abortions to be performed on
minors, if the parents demand such. AFAIK, Papa Jack is the
only person in talk.abortion to have actually supported such
a forced abortion.

You really are a sleazy character, aren't you, Coyote?

You almost never play it straight here on talk.aborition.
You seem to get more enjoyment out of twisting what folks
really say out of context.....

Here's the Context: Others can judge for themselves:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=35B12966.3D620988%40geocities.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

I'm on the side of the girl and her parents. I've repeatedly
said I would reluctantly support the right of females to choose
abortion in cases of rape or incest. This is a case of incest,
as well as statutory rape, so the girl and her family should
have the option of abortion.
I further support the right of parents to exercise their parental
authority in such cases. Their daughter is only 12 years old and
clearly needs adult assistance. The government should butt out.
Jackass says that the parents should have the right to "exercise their
parental authority" and "have the option of abortion" for the girl.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "--sexkitten--"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	03 May 2004 05:56:20 PM

Papa Jack wrote:

elcoyote@netzero.net (Paul Anderson) wrote in message
news:<4093d5e0.231382285@news.la.sbcglobal.net>...

papajack@stic.net (Papa Jack) wrote:

==========================================================================

Papa Jack cited:
On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

Http://www.sptimes.com/2004/05/01/State/Abortion_bill_for_min.shtml
__________________________________________________________________________

Excerpts:

"Florida lawmakers late Friday sent a controversial measure
to the November ballot that could require girls to obtain
parental notification before getting an abortion.

[...]
__________________________________________________________________________

Papa Jack commented:
This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

Nationwide polls previously indicated strong majorities
supported such laws.

==========================================================================

El Coyote wrote:
As is normal for "Pro-Lifers" this amendment will do more
than merely require parental notification of abortion.

The actual wording of the amendment is:

".... the Legislature is authorized to require by general
law for notification to a parent or guardian of a minor
before the termination of the minor's pregnancy...."

==========================================================================
Papa Jack laughed:
You really are a sleazy character, aren't you, Coyote?

You almost never play it straight here on talk.aborition.
You seem to get more enjoyment out of twisting what folks
really say out of context -- and then presenting it in a
way to deceive the readers.

Yep, I said I would support the parents' right to determine
what "MEDICAL CARE" their underage daughters needed. If
a teen daughter was raped and then the attending doctor
advised against allowing the pregnancy and birth (because
of her physical immaturity), I would support the parents'
right to determine the "MEDICAL CARE" needed. If that
was an abortion, so be it.

What if they decided not to and the girl dies?
Such things have been known to happen.
Would that be perfectly OK?

I also support parents' right to authorize surgery for a
busted appendix -- even if the child is screaming and
crying in fear. See how totally cruel I am?

Do you also support their right to NOT authorize surgery and allow the
child to die?
--
--sexkitten--What's worse than a knee- jerk liberal? A kneepad
conservative, that's who, forever groveling before the rich and
powerful. -Edward Abbey
.

User: "Paul Anderson"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	03 May 2004 09:41:16 PM

On Mon, 03 May 2004 15:56:20 -0700, --sexkitten--
<ladyhawk_nospam_two@hotmail.com> wrote:

Papa Jack wrote:

elcoyote@netzero.net (Paul Anderson) wrote.....
As is normal for "Pro-Lifers" this amendment will do more
than merely require parental notification of abortion.
The actual wording of the amendment is:

Birth is the termination of a minor's pregnancy -- an event
that emancipates the minor from all parental control. This
bill would authorize forced abortions to be performed on
minors, if the parents demand such. AFAIK, Papa Jack is the
only person in talk.abortion to have actually supported such
a forced abortion.

==========================================================================
Papa Jack laughed:
You really are a sleazy character, aren't you, Coyote?

You almost never play it straight here on talk.aborition.
You seem to get more enjoyment out of twisting what folks
really say out of context -- and then presenting it in a
way to deceive the readers.

Yep, I said I would support the parents' right to determine
what "MEDICAL CARE" their underage daughters needed. If
a teen daughter was raped and then the attending doctor
advised against allowing the pregnancy and birth (because
of her physical immaturity), I would support the parents'
right to determine the "MEDICAL CARE" needed. If that
was an abortion, so be it.

What if they decided not to and the girl dies?
Such things have been known to happen.
Would that be perfectly OK?

What Papa Jack supported, and what this *constitutional amendment*
allows, is the "right" of a minor's parents force abortion upon their
minor child. (In the incident that caused the above comment there
was no indication that the minor child wished to abort her pregnancy.)
".... the Legislature is authorized to require by general law for
notification to a parent or guardian of a minor before the
termination of the minor's pregnancy...." Birth is such a termination
of the minor's pregnancy and AFAIK in every state such a birth
automatically frees the minor from parental control. Pro-Choice
supports the right of the girl to bear her child, especially if the
girl feels abortion is immoral.
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	04 May 2004 01:34:28 AM

Papa Jackass <papajack@stic.net> wrote:

You really are a sleazy character, aren't you, Coyote?

99.6% on the irony meter.

You almost never play it straight here on talk.aborition.
You seem to get more enjoyment out of twisting what folks
really say out of context -- and then presenting it in a

When you can't meet someone in honest debate, you run around
spreading total, complete lies about them.
Papa Jackass in <331518B2.3221@express-news.net>
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	01 May 2004 12:38:09 PM

Papa Jack <papajack@stic.net> wrote:

On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

[...]

__________________________________________________________________________

This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

You've argued that parents should have the right to force a
17-year-old daughter to get an abortion, haven't you?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Jon Young"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	01 May 2004 08:34:13 PM

(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<c70na0$4p0$1@bolt.sonic.net>...

Papa Jack <papajack@stic.net> wrote:

On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

[...]

__________________________________________________________________________

This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

You've argued that parents should have the right to force a
17-year-old daughter to get an abortion, haven't you?

Any parent who would give permission for their daughter to have an
abortion should be charged with murder.Minors have enough problems in
this world without the parents responsible for their protection being
an accessory to killing a baby;which the girl is going to have to
suffer with the guilt the rest of her life.Perhaps if these same
parents spent more time teaching their children
good,Christian,wholesome values,than their daughters would learn to
keep their legs closed and baby killing wouldn't be an issue.
.

User: "Flower Power"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - make mother's PAY and suffer!	01 May 2004 11:38:25 PM

"Jon Young" <jdyoung1@volcanomail.com> wrote in message

Any parent who would give permission for their daughter to have an
abortion should be charged with murder.

Do you suggest they PUNISH her by forcing her to bear the unwanted child?
How will this benefit the unwilling, unhappy young mother?
Minors have enough problems in

this world without the parents responsible for their protection being
an accessory to killing a baby;

A baby?
which the girl is going to have to

suffer with the guilt the rest of her life.

Which girls do you know who suffered from guilt the rest of their lives?
Why would they suffer from guilt? What about the unwanted zygotes father?
Does he also suffer from guilt for impregnating the teenager? If not, why
not?
Perhaps if these same

parents spent more time teaching their children
good,Christian,wholesome values,

You mean YOUR values don't you? Why should everyone live by YOUR values?
than their daughters would learn to

keep their legs closed and baby killing wouldn't be an issue.

Yep, more Christian "MAKE THE TRAMP SUFFER and PAY" rhetoric. How about
you teach your son to keep his zipper up, use a condom, and not cause
unwanted pregnancies. Teach the girl about birth-control.
--
Flower.....
"Men never do evil so completely and
cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
~ Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) ~
~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~* ~~*
.

User: "Shawn Hearn"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - make mother's PAY and suffer!	02 May 2004 09:45:55 AM

In article <soSdnYnMQ_uU4AndRVn-hA@heartoftn.net>,
"Flower Power" <jabriolFREE@JABBERfree.net> wrote:

"Jon Young" <jdyoung1@volcanomail.com> wrote in message

Any parent who would give permission for their daughter to have an
abortion should be charged with murder.

Do you suggest they PUNISH her by forcing her to bear the unwanted child?
How will this benefit the unwilling, unhappy young mother?

Of course, that's what all anti-choice people want. That's why I refer
to those who would force any women to remain pregnant as pro-slavers.
Forcing a woman (even a teen) to go through with an unwanted pregnancy
is of no concern to the pro-slavers in this newsgroup. All they care
about is manipulating people to suit their own warped sense of morality.
.

User: "Flower Power"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - make mother's PAY and suffer!	02 May 2004 05:32:52 PM

"Shawn Hearn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-D9CEDD.10455502052004@news-60.giganews.com...

In article <soSdnYnMQ_uU4AndRVn-hA@heartoftn.net>,
"Flower Power" <jabriolFREE@JABBERfree.net> wrote:

"Jon Young" <jdyoung1@volcanomail.com> wrote in message

Any parent who would give permission for their daughter to have an
abortion should be charged with murder.

Do you suggest they PUNISH her by forcing her to bear the unwanted

child?

How will this benefit the unwilling, unhappy young mother?

---------------------------------------------------------

Of course, that's what all anti-choice people want. That's why I refer
to those who would force any women to remain pregnant as pro-slavers.

# It fits. They are in a way, in favor of slavery.

Forcing a woman (even a teen) to go through with an unwanted pregnancy
is of no concern to the pro-slavers in this newsgroup. All they care
about is manipulating people to suit their own warped sense of morality.

# I agree. It always seem to come back to their religious beliefs in the
end.... of course none of them actually read their bibles.
--
The Purple Flower....
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
.

User: "osprey"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - make mother's PAY and suffer!	03 May 2004 12:33:45 AM

"Flower Power" <Choices@womans.net> wrote in message news:<W6OdnY-2fZfv5wjd4p2dnA@heartoftn.net>...

"Shawn Hearn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-D9CEDD.10455502052004@news-60.giganews.com...

In article <soSdnYnMQ_uU4AndRVn-hA@heartoftn.net>,
"Flower Power" <jabriolFREE@JABBERfree.net> wrote:

"Jon Young" <jdyoung1@volcanomail.com> wrote in message

Any parent who would give permission for their daughter to have an
abortion should be charged with murder.

Do you suggest they PUNISH her by forcing her to bear the unwanted

child?

How will this benefit the unwilling, unhappy young mother?

---------------------------------------------------------

Of course, that's what all anti-choice people want. That's why I refer
to those who would force any women to remain pregnant as pro-slavers.

# It fits. They are in a way, in favor of slavery.

actually that would be people like you.
You have demonstrated that you are anti-male, most likely you are a
member of the NOW organization.
You have demonstrated that you lay the complete responsibilty on the
male and completely allow a woman to kill freely and not have to take
any responsibility what so ever.
You will allow a woman and excuse her to kill her unborn. You have
demonstrated that reasons like, "not financially prepared" is a good
reason for her to abort so she can move on with her life.
However, if the male is not financially prepared, you will say
something like "too bad, he should have kept his zipper up"
You are for male sufferage, and you could care less if the male is not
"financially prepared"
You are in favor of male slavery

# I agree. It always seem to come back to their religious beliefs in the
end.... of course none of them actually read their bibles.

Here you demonstrate your bigotry.
I do read the bible and I have learned very quickly that when it comes
to the bible you have absolutely no clue and are very ignorant
.

User: "Flower Power"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - make mother's PAY and suffer!	03 May 2004 03:28:12 PM

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:8912d58d.0405022133.3cb40a26@posting.google.com...

actually that would be people like you.

* People like who? You live in my house and know me?

You have demonstrated that you are anti-male,

* Only in your sick misogynist mind. You don't want to HEAR about men
wearing condoms it seems. Why not? Get a clue. If I were anti-male I
wouldn't be married.
most likely you are a

member of the NOW organization.

* No, never was either. Do you believe all women should still be barefoot
and pregnant, uneducated and totally dependent on some man or welfare?

You have demonstrated that you lay the complete responsibilty on the
male

* Show me where that was demonstrated? Not one of my posts makes that
claim.
and completely allow a woman to kill freely
* Kill what freely? Her neighbors? Stray cats in her neighborhood?
and not have to take

any responsibility what so ever.

* Responsibility for what - her abortion if BC fails? I believe the man
should pay half and I'm sure you agree.
Your same old redundant TROLLISH BS snipped since you refuse to answer
questions or discuss what happens after you force a women to have an
unwanted child....
--
FP....
"We look at the ancient Greeks with their gods on a mountain top throwing
lightning bolts and say, 'Those ancient Greeks. They were so silly. So
primitive
and naive. Not like our religions. We have burning bushes talking to people
and
guys walking on water. We're ...sophisticated.'"
-= Paul Provenza =-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	01 May 2004 08:36:10 PM

"Jon Young" <jdyoung1@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
news:25e1e54f.0405011734.66d5a1b4@posting.google.com...

rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message

news:<c70na0$4p0$1@bolt.sonic.net>...

Papa Jack <papajack@stic.net> wrote:

On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

[...]

__________________________________________________________________________

This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

You've argued that parents should have the right to force a
17-year-old daughter to get an abortion, haven't you?

Bravo
.

User: "Patrick Lee Humphrey"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	01 May 2004 09:19:14 PM

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> writes:

"Jon Young" <jdyoung1@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
news:25e1e54f.0405011734.66d5a1b4@posting.google.com...

rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message

news:<c70na0$4p0$1@bolt.sonic.net>...

Papa Jack <papajack@stic.net> wrote:

On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

[...]

This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

You've argued that parents should have the right to force a
17-year-old daughter to get an abortion, haven't you?

Bravo

Yeah, who needs that Constitution getting in the way of your wet dream?
(You're one truly reprehensible liar *and* cocksucking Cop Reject, Heishman.
You'll brown-nose anything that says it's "pro-life".)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2003-04 Houston Aeros)
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters	01 May 2004 08:47:40 PM

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:l6OdnTAdUaLPzQndRVn-hA@comcast.com...

"Jon Young" <jdyoung1@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
news:25e1e54f.0405011734.66d5a1b4@posting.google.com...

rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message

news:<c70na0$4p0$1@bolt.sonic.net>...

Papa Jack <papajack@stic.net> wrote:

On May 1, 2004, the St. Petersburg Times posted an article by
Jennifer Liberto titled: "Abortion Bill for Minors Goes to Voter."

[...]

__________________________________________________________________________

This will give us some measure of how the general public
views parental notification prior to minors' abortions.

You've argued that parents should have the right to force a
17-year-old daughter to get an abortion, haven't you?

Bravo

To further expand on what I was thinking.
Your advice above is right. But with many of the liberals, it is all about
free sex and no responsibility.
They would much rather just tell their kids it is o.k., because that gets
their kids out of their hair so they can
go do the things they want. And hell, if she gets pregnant instead of them
teaching her the right thing to do and
to love their grandchild and teach her to love her child...they much rather
take the easy way out and tell their daughters
to go kill the unborn child and teach them that their unborn is nothing.
It is hard raising children, especially today. It takes work, guidance,
love, nurturing, patience, hard discipline sometimes.
Many of these liberals....They don't know how to do these things, and they
don't want too.
.

User: "Flower Power"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - to stop CHOICE or NOT	01 May 2004 11:47:11 PM

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:YfadnVPjFcGczgndRVn-sw@comcast.com...

To further expand on what I was thinking.
Your advice above is right. But with many of the liberals, it is all

about

free sex and no responsibility.
They would much rather just tell their kids it is o.k., because that gets
their kids out of their hair so they can
go do the things they want. And hell, if she gets pregnant instead of

them

teaching her the right thing to do and
to love their grandchild and teach her to love her child...they much

rather

take the easy way out and tell their daughters
to go kill the unborn child and teach them that their unborn is nothing.

* This is the most idealistic bunch of BS I ever heard. You can't "teach"
someone to want and love an unwanted child any more than you can "teach" or
force them to love a stray cat or a liver dinner. Most teenager are not
mature enough or emotionally ready for motherhood. The unloved and unwanted
child suffers. Do you care about the child and it's welfare? I notice you
anti-choice, punish-the-women fundies never mention that aspect of forced
motherhood. What about the young lady's education? Their futures? It
sounds like you just want to PUNISH them for having sex outside of marriage.

It is hard raising children, especially today.

* And yet you expect a young teenager to bear a unwanted child and try to
raise it - on what? Welfare?
It takes work, guidance,

love, nurturing, patience, hard discipline sometimes.

* And you expect this from an young, immature, jobless, single teenager who
doesn't want and isn't ready for motherhood?

Many of these liberals....They don't know how to do these things, and they
don't want too.

* We're talking about women who do not want, can't afford, have no desire
.... to be mothers!
--
The White Flower...
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
.

User: "osprey"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - to stop CHOICE or NOT	02 May 2004 04:52:27 AM

"Flower Power" <jabriolFREE@JABBERfree.net> wrote in message news:<fMSdnb4VJayI4gndRVn-ug@heartoftn.net>...

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:YfadnVPjFcGczgndRVn-sw@comcast.com...

To further expand on what I was thinking.
Your advice above is right. But with many of the liberals, it is all

about

them

teaching her the right thing to do and
to love their grandchild and teach her to love her child...they much

rather

take the easy way out and tell their daughters
to go kill the unborn child and teach them that their unborn is nothing.

* This is the most idealistic bunch of BS I ever heard. You can't "teach"
someone to want and love an unwanted child any more than you can "teach" or
force them to love a stray cat or a liver dinner.

B.S.
Most teenager are not

mature enough or emotionally ready for motherhood.

Then we should be teaching them to keep their legs closed and get an
education and their lives started. Not throwing them in the streets,
handing them a pack of condoms and saying it's o.k.
The unloved and unwanted

child suffers. Do you care about the child and it's welfare? I notice you
anti-choice,

lie #1

punish-the-women

lie #2
fundies never mention that aspect of forced

motherhood. What about the young lady's education?

What about guiding them to care more about their education than sex?
I have a young teen daughter, national honor society, FFA, top in the
state in Clarinet, believes in God, believes in waiting until
marriage.
Is it easy? No
But if I could take the time to have kids, I can certainly take the
time to raise and take care of them.
Their futures? It

sounds like you just want to PUNISH them for having sex outside of marriage.

Sounds like you don't know what you are doing

It is hard raising children, especially today.

* And yet you expect a young teenager to bear a unwanted child and try to
raise it - on what? Welfare?

I expect them to avoid getting into that position to begin with,
through guidance, education, and leading by example

It takes work, guidance,

love, nurturing, patience, hard discipline sometimes.

* And you expect this from an young, immature, jobless, single teenager who
doesn't want and isn't ready for motherhood?

Absolutely

Many of these liberals....They don't know how to do these things, and they
don't want too.

* We're talking about women who do not want, can't afford, have no desire
... to be mothers!

It's a damn shame you could care less about men who do not want, can't
afford, and have no desire....to be fathers. Guess what? They are
FORCED to pay regardless.
.

User: "Flower Power"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - to stop CHOICE or NOT	02 May 2004 05:16:28 PM

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:8912d58d.0405020152.58036ada@posting.google.com...

"Flower Power" <jabriolFREE@JABBERfree.net> wrote in message

news:<fMSdnb4VJayI4gndRVn-

* This is the most idealistic bunch of BS I ever heard. You can't

"teach"

someone to want and love an unwanted child any more than you can "teach"

force them to love a stray cat or a liver dinner.
Most teenager are not
mature enough or emotionally ready for motherhood.

=============================================

Then we should be teaching them to keep their legs closed and get an
education and their lives started.

# That's outdated fundy, idealistic thinking from the Victorian ages. And
it is being taught to many girls, and they STILL get pregnant. How does
that happen do you figure? Should we tie their legs to together? Castrate
the guys so they don't encourage the girls to have sex? Will you suggest
virginity belts next?
Not throwing them in the streets,

handing them a pack of condoms and saying it's o.k.

# Who throws their daughters in the streets? No one I know. And so you
figure unwanted pregnancies and abortions are BETTER than a sex education
and birth-control?

The unloved and unwanted

child suffers. Do you care about the child and it's welfare? I notice

you

anti-choice,

lie #1

# Yes, YOUR LIE! I see what happens right where I live with these unwilling
(mostly young) mothers and unwanted children. Don't give me the *****
that the unwilling women suddenly fall in love with these children and
suddenly become excellent mothers. Most don't!

punish-the-women

lie #2

# Oh, really? Then why take her choices away?

fundies never mention that aspect of forced

motherhood. What about the young lady's education?

What about guiding them to care more about their education than sex?

I have a young teen daughter, national honor society, FFA, top in the
state in Clarinet, believes in God, believes in waiting until
marriage.

# So you believe you should FORCE or coerce everyone to live as you do?
Everyone's daughter should be just like yours?

Is it easy? No
But if I could take the time to have kids, I can certainly take the
time to raise and take care of them.

# So now you claim only YOU take care of your kids and others throw them in
the streets without condoms and a sex education? Pretty arrogant of you
don't you think? And who are YOU to judge others? If your daughter were
NORMAL she would be wanting to date my now of she's a teenager.

Their futures? It

sounds like you just want to PUNISH them for having sex outside of

marriage.

Sounds like you don't know what you are doing

# It sounds like you just want to PUNISH them for having sex outside of
marriage. What about the married women who get abortions? I notice you
don't mention them?

It is hard raising children, especially today.

* And yet you expect a young teenager to bear a unwanted child and try

raise it - on what? Welfare?

I expect them to avoid getting into that position to begin with,
through guidance, education, and leading by example

It takes work, guidance,

love, nurturing, patience, hard discipline sometimes.

* And you expect this from an young, immature, jobless, single teenager

who

doesn't want and isn't ready for motherhood?

Absolutely

# So you expect her to get on welfare, force her to raise a child she
neither wants, loves or cares about, and this is going to produce well
adjusted, productive children for the future?

Many of these liberals....They don't know how to do these things, and

they

don't want too.

* We're talking about women who do not want, can't afford, have no

desire

... to be mothers!

It's a damn shame you could care less about men who do not want, can't
afford, and have no desire....to be fathers.

# Why should I? They can wear a condom or keep their zipper up. When a
man has sex he knows he may be responsible for the next 18 years for a child
he resents, couldn't care less about (if the women decides to keep it) and
many men disappear and never support the unwanted children anyway. If YOU
don't want to support any more kids get a vasectomy and leave others alone.
Guess what? They are

FORCED to pay regardless.

# Since when? There are more dead-beat dads out there than I care to think
about.
--
Flower Power....
"Thou seest the mote in thy brother's eye, but thou seest not the beam
in thine own eye. When thou castest the beam out of thine own eye,
then wilt thou see clearly to cast the mote from thy brother's eye."
===============================================
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - to stop CHOICE or NOT	02 May 2004 05:43:18 PM

"Flower Power" <Choices@womans.net> wrote in message
news:ibidnbOEl-Wi7gjdRVn-hQ@heartoftn.net...

"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:8912d58d.0405020152.58036ada@posting.google.com...

"Flower Power" <jabriolFREE@JABBERfree.net> wrote in message

news:<fMSdnb4VJayI4gndRVn-

* This is the most idealistic bunch of BS I ever heard. You can't

"teach"

someone to want and love an unwanted child any more than you can

"teach"

force them to love a stray cat or a liver dinner.
Most teenager are not
mature enough or emotionally ready for motherhood.

=============================================

Then we should be teaching them to keep their legs closed and get an
education and their lives started.

# That's outdated fundy, idealistic thinking from the Victorian ages. And
it is being taught to many girls, and they STILL get pregnant.

Depends on how they are taught and who teaches them. I know many girls who
have chosen education first and have not gotten pregnant.
So if it is posssible for them, it is possible for almost any girl.
How does

that happen do you figure?

How does it happen that so many girls choose not to have sex and wait?
Should we tie their legs to together? Castrate

the guys so they don't encourage the girls to have sex? Will you suggest
virginity belts next?

Of the girls I know that chose not to be sexually active, who happen to be
very
pretty and intellectual girls, none of those methods were needed.

Not throwing them in the streets,

handing them a pack of condoms and saying it's o.k.

# Who throws their daughters in the streets? No one I know. And so you
figure unwanted pregnancies and abortions are BETTER than a sex education
and birth-control?

I have said education is the key

The unloved and unwanted

child suffers. Do you care about the child and it's welfare? I

notice

you

anti-choice,

lie #1

# Yes, YOUR LIE!

No, your lie. Because you made the choice to throw a label on me that isn't
true.
I see what happens right where I live with these unwilling

(mostly young) mothers and unwanted children. Don't give me the *****
that the unwilling women suddenly fall in love with these children and
suddenly become excellent mothers. Most don't!

punish-the-women

lie #2

# Oh, really? Then why take her choices away?

When did I ever say her choices should be taken away?

fundies never mention that aspect of forced

motherhood. What about the young lady's education?

What about guiding them to care more about their education than sex?

# That's outdated fundy, idealistic thinking from the Victorian ages.

Funny..it works
And

it is being taught to many girls, and they STILL get pregnant. How does
that happen do you figure? Should we tie their legs to together?

Castrate

the guys so they don't encourage the girls to have sex? Will you suggest
virginity belts next?

I have a young teen daughter, national honor society, FFA, top in the
state in Clarinet, believes in God, believes in waiting until
marriage.

# So you believe you should FORCE or coerce everyone to live as you do?

When did I say it should be forced?
Do you know what force means?
Do you care to show me how I am forcing anyone?

Everyone's daughter should be just like yours?

She isn't having any abortions

Is it easy? No
But if I could take the time to have kids, I can certainly take the
time to raise and take care of them.

# So now you claim only YOU take care of your kids and others throw them

the streets without condoms and a sex education? Pretty arrogant of you
don't you think?

Yes, I do think you are arrogant

And who are YOU to judge others?

Look who is talking - all your post are nothing but judgements.
You judged that I want to force people, that I want to take choices away,
that I am anti-choice
Puh-lease, you are about as judgemental as they come.
If your daughter were

NORMAL she would be wanting to date my now of she's a teenager.

my now if she's a teenager?
If my daughter was normal?
Hmm
honor student
musician
going to college
she goes out with her friends
she is trusted
she does have boyfriends
What isn't normal?
Why are you judging my daughter?
Who are you to judge others?
Sound familiar?

Their futures? It

sounds like you just want to PUNISH them for having sex outside of

marriage.

Sounds like you don't know what you are doing

# It sounds like you just want to PUNISH them for having sex outside of
marriage.

Sounds like you are judging
What about the married women who get abortions? I notice you

don't mention them?

What about them?
Same thing, they made that choice I don't happen to think it was the right
choice.
That is my opinion

It is hard raising children, especially today.

* And yet you expect a young teenager to bear a unwanted child and try

raise it - on what? Welfare?

I expect them to avoid getting into that position to begin with,
through guidance, education, and leading by example

# That's outdated fundy, idealistic thinking from the Victorian ages.

You sure are a bigot when it comes to religion aren't you
And

it is being taught to many girls, and they STILL get pregnant.

And it is taught to many girls and they DON'T get pregnant
How does

that happen do you figure? Should we tie their legs to together?

Castrate

the guys so they don't encourage the girls to have sex? Will you suggest
virginity belts next? Do be put these belts on the married women as well?

It takes work, guidance,

love, nurturing, patience, hard discipline sometimes.

* And you expect this from an young, immature, jobless, single teenag

who

doesn't want and isn't ready for motherhood?

Absolutely

# So you expect her to get on welfare, force her to raise a child she
neither wants, loves or cares about, and this is going to produce well
adjusted, productive children for the future?

You are being judgemental again....:o)
Funny how you made that judgemental comment above and almost your entire
post is based on
biased, stereotyping, bigoted judgemental crap

Many of these liberals....They don't know how to do these things,

and

they

don't want too.

* We're talking about women who do not want, can't afford, have no

desire

... to be mothers!

It's a damn shame you could care less about men who do not want, can't
afford, and have no desire....to be fathers.

# Why should I?

So you discriminate then

They can wear a condom or keep their zipper up.

So it is all the mans responsibility now right?
When a

man has sex he knows he may be responsible for the next 18 years for a

child

he resents, couldn't care less about (if the women decides to keep it) and
many men disappear and never support the unwanted children anyway. If YOU
don't want to support any more kids get a vasectomy and leave others

alone.
Isn't amazing how you hold the man responsible and how he should know he is
going to have
to be responsible for 18 years but you completely excuse a woman from any
responsibility at all.
Boy you are discriminating...it is just utterly amazing the crap you just
spewed

Guess what? They are

FORCED to pay regardless.

# Since when? There are more dead-beat dads out there than I care to

think

about.

Come where I work and let me introduce you to many who are not dead beats,
they just had no other options and couldn't afford it.
The courts are VERY unreasonable when it comes to equal treatment to
fathers...VERY unreasonable.
.

User: "Flower Power"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - to stop CHOICE or NOT	03 May 2004 01:37:20 AM

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1OGdnbuNarLt5AjdRVn-uw@comcast.com...

"Flower Power" <Choices@womans.net> wrote in message

# That's outdated fundy, idealistic thinking from the Victorian ages.

And

it is being taught to many girls, and they STILL get pregnant.

Depends on how they are taught and who teaches them. I know many girls

who

have chosen education first and have not gotten pregnant.
So if it is posssible for them, it is possible for almost any girl.

* So you expect ALL GIRLS to act, think and behave the same way like
they're all clones? Who are YOU to judge them?

How does

that happen do you figure?

How does it happen that so many girls choose not to have sex and wait?

* How do you know they're not having sex and using birth control? Why do
you never answer a question? Why are the girls being taught all these
Christian values and morals still getting pregnant?

Should we tie their legs to together? Castrate

the guys so they don't encourage the girls to have sex? Will you

suggest

virginity belts next?

Of the girls I know that chose not to be sexually active, who happen to be
very
pretty and intellectual girls, none of those methods were needed.

* So you now claim you go around ASKING the young girls and young ladies if
they're still virgins and if they use birth control when they have sex. And
no one arrested you yet? I think you're full of *****. One of their
fathers would have punched your lights out. If any man asked me those kinds
of questions when I was young my father would have kicked his ***** into the
next county and had him arrested.....
====> SNIP!... the rest of your utter *****. No use trying to converse
with a outright liar! No wonder you anti-choice people have zero
credibility.
--
The Purple Flower....
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
.

User: "Osprey"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - to stop CHOICE or NOT	03 May 2004 08:08:47 AM

"Flower Power" <Choices@womans.net> wrote in message
news:DuedneI_OcmbdwjdRVn-vA@heartoftn.net...

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1OGdnbuNarLt5AjdRVn-uw@comcast.com...

"Flower Power" <Choices@womans.net> wrote in message

# That's outdated fundy, idealistic thinking from the Victorian ages.

And

it is being taught to many girls, and they STILL get pregnant.

Depends on how they are taught and who teaches them. I know many girls

who

have chosen education first and have not gotten pregnant.
So if it is posssible for them, it is possible for almost any girl.

* So you expect ALL GIRLS to act, think and behave the same way like
they're all clones? Who are YOU to judge them?

Puh-lease, you are the queen of judgmental male bashers...
Go sit back down, I look up to inmates higher than ilk like you.
You are not worthy nor intelligent enough to discuss this issue.

How does

that happen do you figure?

How does it happen that so many girls choose not to have sex and wait?

* How do you know they're not having sex and using birth control? Why do
you never answer a question?

I will gladly answer questions to people who are respectful to others
opinions
You are not
Why are the girls being taught all these

Christian values and morals still getting pregnant?

Should we tie their legs to together? Castrate

the guys so they don't encourage the girls to have sex? Will you

suggest

virginity belts next?

Of the girls I know that chose not to be sexually active, who happen to

very
pretty and intellectual girls, none of those methods were needed.

* So you now claim you go around ASKING the young girls and young ladies

they're still virgins and if they use birth control when they have sex.

So now you lie...again. I never claimed that.
And

no one arrested you yet? I think you're full of *****.

Ask me tomorrow if I care
One of their

fathers would have punched your lights out. If any man asked me those

kinds

of questions when I was young my father would have kicked his ***** into the
next county and had him arrested.....

I never asked anyone those questions
But you are so insecure in your own ***** you need to lie about others
typical

====> SNIP!... the rest of your utter *****. No use trying to converse
with a outright liar! No wonder you anti-choice people have zero
credibility.

Buh bye then..
.

User: "Flower Power"
Title: Re: Fla. Parental Notification Goes to Voters - to stop CHOICE or NOT	03 May 2004 03:10:12 PM

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:PJCdnevDk6LP2QvdRVn-vw@comcast.com...

"Flower Power" <Choices@womans.net> wrote in message
news:DuedneI_OcmbdwjdRVn-vA@heartoftn.net...

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:1OGdnbuNarLt5AjdRVn-uw@comcast