| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Absolutely Incredible" |
| Date: |
22 Jun 2004 12:30:26 PM |
| Object: |
Hand of Hope |
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
--
num tibi mentireris?
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| User: "Sean_MacCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 05:45:00 PM |
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Absolutely Incredible wrote:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
--
num tibi mentireris?
So that means that the fetus was a sentient self aware entity reaching
out for hope?
Sort of like the virgin mary(tm) on a potato chip right?
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 08:40:52 PM |
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"Sean_MacCloud" <Sean_MacCloud@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40D8B655.3019A190@yahoo.com...
Absolutely Incredible wrote:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
--
num tibi mentireris?
So that means that the fetus was a sentient self aware entity reaching
out for hope?
** That would be hard to do since he was as anesthetized as his mother and
unaware of what was happening.
Sort of like the virgin mary(tm) on a potato chip right?
** They also claim Mother Teresa appeared in a baked bun and Jesus appeared
on the redbrick wall of a house in Queens NY. Or I should say they're
images did. Will wonders ever cease?
--
FPower.......
But look what your Jehovah god said in his bible:
Psalm 137:9
"Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the
stones." (Infanticide approved by god)
======================================
.
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| User: "Spartakus" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 08:48:33 PM |
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Sean_MacCloud <Sean_MacCloud@yahoo.com> wrote:
Absolutely Incredible wrote:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
So that means that the fetus was a sentient self aware entity reaching
out for hope?
The fetus was anesthetized. Those were pretty good drugs, eh?
Sort of like the virgin mary(tm) on a potato chip right?
Or Mother Teresa on a caramel roll.
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| User: "Adam H." |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 02:22:42 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:30:26 +0100, Absolutely Incredible
<yup@absolutelyincredible.demon.com> wrote:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
Of course, if that site told the *whole* truth, it'd be more credible:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/thehand.asp
Dr. Bruner (the surgeon performing) later elaborated on some of the
exaggerated and false claims made about this picture:
"It has become an urban legend," says Bruner, the Vanderbilt
University surgeon who fixed the spina bifida lesion on Samuel. Many
people he hears from wonder whether it's a fake.
"One person said the photo had been reviewed by a team of medical
experts and they had determined that it was a hoax," Bruner says with
a laugh.
More commonly, people want to know how the photo came to be.
Some opponents of abortion have claimed that the baby reached
through the womb and grabbed the doctor's hand.
Not true, Bruner says.
Samuel and his mother, Julie, were under anesthesia and could not
move.
"The baby did not reach out," Bruner says. "The baby was
anesthetized. The baby was not aware of what was going on."
---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "Loose Cannon" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 03:01:30 PM |
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"Adam H." <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:jl1hd0h6u53v0qh3aoe8805u8t73clfove@4ax.com...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:30:26 +0100, Absolutely Incredible
<yup@absolutelyincredible.demon.com> wrote:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
Of course, if that site told the *whole* truth, it'd be more credible:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/thehand.asp
Sheesh! Didn't we just go through this a month or two ago? For the eighth or
ninth time?
If this "no-archive" simpleton-sock would have spent just a *moment*
researching this story, he could have saved himself from looking like a
tool.
If these folks would spend as much time seeking out the truth as they do
seeking out propaganda, they might someday not be viewed as "Absolutely
Gullible". <g>
Dr. Bruner (the surgeon performing) later elaborated on some of the
exaggerated and false claims made about this picture:
"It has become an urban legend," says Bruner, the Vanderbilt
University surgeon who fixed the spina bifida lesion on Samuel. Many
people he hears from wonder whether it's a fake.
"One person said the photo had been reviewed by a team of medical
experts and they had determined that it was a hoax," Bruner says with
a laugh.
More commonly, people want to know how the photo came to be.
Some opponents of abortion have claimed that the baby reached
through the womb and grabbed the doctor's hand.
Not true, Bruner says.
Samuel and his mother, Julie, were under anesthesia and could not
move.
"The baby did not reach out," Bruner says. "The baby was
anesthetized. The baby was not aware of what was going on."
---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "Adam H." |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 03:27:54 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:01:30 GMT, "Loose Cannon" <looseain't@this.com>
wrote:
"Adam H." <adam@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:jl1hd0h6u53v0qh3aoe8805u8t73clfove@4ax.com...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:30:26 +0100, Absolutely Incredible
<yup@absolutelyincredible.demon.com> wrote:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
Of course, if that site told the *whole* truth, it'd be more credible:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/thehand.asp
Sheesh! Didn't we just go through this a month or two ago? For the eighth or
ninth time?
Yup. It gets debunked every time and yet it keeps getting posted.
Still, it's but the work of a moment to debunk it again.
If this "no-archive" simpleton-sock would have spent just a *moment*
researching this story, he could have saved himself from looking like a
tool.
If these folks would spend as much time seeking out the truth as they do
seeking out propaganda, they might someday not be viewed as "Absolutely
Gullible". <g>
Dr. Bruner (the surgeon performing) later elaborated on some of the
exaggerated and false claims made about this picture:
"It has become an urban legend," says Bruner, the Vanderbilt
University surgeon who fixed the spina bifida lesion on Samuel. Many
people he hears from wonder whether it's a fake.
"One person said the photo had been reviewed by a team of medical
experts and they had determined that it was a hoax," Bruner says with
a laugh.
More commonly, people want to know how the photo came to be.
Some opponents of abortion have claimed that the baby reached
through the womb and grabbed the doctor's hand.
Not true, Bruner says.
Samuel and his mother, Julie, were under anesthesia and could not
move.
"The baby did not reach out," Bruner says. "The baby was
anesthetized. The baby was not aware of what was going on."
---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 03:21:47 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:01:30 GMT, "Loose Cannon" <looseain't@this.com>
wrote:
Sheesh! Didn't we just go through this a month or two ago? For the eighth or
ninth time?
If this "no-archive" simpleton-sock would have spent just a *moment*
researching this story, he could have saved himself from looking like a
tool.
If these folks would spend as much time seeking out the truth as they do
seeking out propaganda, they might someday not be viewed as "Absolutely
Gullible". <g>
"Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his finger for the baby to
hold."
Dr. Joseph Bruner at Vanderbilt is known for his work in fetal
surgery, especially on babies with spina bifida, a condition in which
the spine does not close properly during development. Vanderbilt
confirms that little Samuel Armus was 21 weeks-old in the womb which
makes the surgery very risky because if anything goes wrong, the baby
cannot survive on its own. Dr. Bruner and his colleagues, however,
have done numerous successful spina bifida surgeries on fetuses that
are not yet viable. In this particular surgery, the baby's hand poked
out of the incision in its mother's womb and Dr. Bruner says he
instinctively offered his finger for the baby to hold. Most versions
of the story say the baby reached out and grasped Dr. Bruner's finger,
but in an article in USA Today on May 2, 2000, Dr. Bruner says both
the mother and the baby were under anesthesia and could not move.
Michael Clancy, the photographer who took the picture and who owns the
copyright to it says, however, that out of the corner of his eye he
saw the uterus shake and the baby's hand pop out of the surgical
opening on its own. Clancy says that when the doctor put his finger
into the baby's hand, the baby squeezed the finger and held on. You
can read Clancy's description of the experience and more about the
picture at his website at www.michaelclancy.com.
Update: The surgery was successful and little Samuel Armas was born
on December 2, 1999, and has been developing well, according to his
parents, Alex and Julie Armas.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 08:33:13 PM |
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"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2jrinaF14ltomU5@uni-berlin.de...
"Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his finger for the baby to
hold."
==================
What has it got to do with abortion? I hope we don't start hearing about
people's hernia and heart surgeries here next....
--
FPower.......
But look what your Jehovah god said in his bible:
Psalm 137:9
"Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the
stones." (Infanticide approved by god)
======================================
.
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| User: "Loose Cannon" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 04:35:38 PM |
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"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2jrinaF14ltomU5@uni-berlin.de...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:01:30 GMT, "Loose Cannon" <looseain't@this.com>
wrote:
Sheesh! Didn't we just go through this a month or two ago? For the eighth
or ninth time?
If this "no-archive" simpleton-sock would have spent just a *moment*
researching this story, he could have saved himself from looking like a
tool.
If these folks would spend as much time seeking out the truth as they do
seeking out propaganda, they might someday not be viewed as "Absolutely
Gullible". <g>
"Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his finger for the baby to
hold."
One more time for the slow-witted:
http://www.tennessean.com/sii/00/01/09/photoside09.shtml
Excerpts:
______________
Michael Clancy said it was "absolutely the biggest thing" to happen in his
11-year career as a news and free-lance photographer.<
Since it was listed with a New York photo agency, the image has appeared in
newspapers and magazines all over the world. So far, Clancy -- who
frequently does free-lance work for The Tennessean -- has been paid $1,100
for the rights to publish his photo<
Near the end of the operation, Clancy, who was taking pictures for USA
TODAY, said he saw "this little hand come out with like a punch ... and he
grabbed the (doctor's) finger."<
The doctors and other witnesses in the operating room tell a different
story. They say Dr. Joseph P. Bruner, who was sewing up the uterus, pulled
out the fetal arm for the photographer.<
That account doesn't deter Clancy or others who view the photograph as a
powerful pro-life symbol.<
< "Absolutely Stinkin' Gullible's" repost shown the door>
LC~Another day, another lie debunked.<yawn>
"Chase after truth like hell and you'll free yourself, even though you never
touch its coat-tails."~Clarence Darrow
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| User: "Adam H." |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 03:27:13 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:21:47 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:01:30 GMT, "Loose Cannon" <looseain't@this.com>
wrote:
Sheesh! Didn't we just go through this a month or two ago? For the eighth or
ninth time?
If this "no-archive" simpleton-sock would have spent just a *moment*
researching this story, he could have saved himself from looking like a
tool.
If these folks would spend as much time seeking out the truth as they do
seeking out propaganda, they might someday not be viewed as "Absolutely
Gullible". <g>
"Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his finger for the baby to
hold."
Dr. Joseph Bruner at Vanderbilt is known for his work in fetal
surgery, especially on babies with spina bifida, a condition in which
the spine does not close properly during development. Vanderbilt
confirms that little Samuel Armus was 21 weeks-old in the womb which
makes the surgery very risky because if anything goes wrong, the baby
cannot survive on its own. Dr. Bruner and his colleagues, however,
have done numerous successful spina bifida surgeries on fetuses that
are not yet viable. In this particular surgery, the baby's hand poked
out of the incision in its mother's womb and Dr. Bruner says he
instinctively offered his finger for the baby to hold. Most versions
of the story say the baby reached out and grasped Dr. Bruner's finger,
but in an article in USA Today on May 2, 2000, Dr. Bruner says both
the mother and the baby were under anesthesia and could not move.
Michael Clancy, the photographer who took the picture and who owns the
copyright to it says, however, that out of the corner of his eye he
saw the uterus shake and the baby's hand pop out of the surgical
opening on its own. Clancy says that when the doctor put his finger
into the baby's hand, the baby squeezed the finger and held on. You
can read Clancy's description of the experience and more about the
picture at his website at www.michaelclancy.com.
Update: The surgery was successful and little Samuel Armas was born
on December 2, 1999, and has been developing well, according to his
parents, Alex and Julie Armas.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
So, we have the story of the photographer against the story of the man
*performing the surgery*.
Bruner is credible. Clancy is not in this case.
---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 03:48:57 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:27:13 -0400, Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:21:47 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:01:30 GMT, "Loose Cannon" <looseain't@this.com>
wrote:
Sheesh! Didn't we just go through this a month or two ago? For the eighth or
ninth time?
If this "no-archive" simpleton-sock would have spent just a *moment*
researching this story, he could have saved himself from looking like a
tool.
If these folks would spend as much time seeking out the truth as they do
seeking out propaganda, they might someday not be viewed as "Absolutely
Gullible". <g>
"Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his finger for the baby to
hold."
Dr. Joseph Bruner at Vanderbilt is known for his work in fetal
surgery, especially on babies with spina bifida, a condition in which
the spine does not close properly during development. Vanderbilt
confirms that little Samuel Armus was 21 weeks-old in the womb which
makes the surgery very risky because if anything goes wrong, the baby
cannot survive on its own. Dr. Bruner and his colleagues, however,
have done numerous successful spina bifida surgeries on fetuses that
are not yet viable. In this particular surgery, the baby's hand poked
out of the incision in its mother's womb and Dr. Bruner says he
instinctively offered his finger for the baby to hold. Most versions
of the story say the baby reached out and grasped Dr. Bruner's finger,
but in an article in USA Today on May 2, 2000, Dr. Bruner says both
the mother and the baby were under anesthesia and could not move.
Michael Clancy, the photographer who took the picture and who owns the
copyright to it says, however, that out of the corner of his eye he
saw the uterus shake and the baby's hand pop out of the surgical
opening on its own. Clancy says that when the doctor put his finger
into the baby's hand, the baby squeezed the finger and held on. You
can read Clancy's description of the experience and more about the
picture at his website at www.michaelclancy.com.
Update: The surgery was successful and little Samuel Armas was born
on December 2, 1999, and has been developing well, according to his
parents, Alex and Julie Armas.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
So, we have the story of the photographer against the story of the man
*performing the surgery*.
Bruner is credible. Clancy is not in this case.
I quote from the above: "Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his
finger for the baby to hold."
The only thing to debate is whether the baby reached for the doctor or
the doctor reached for the baby. I accept the doctor's version.
You'll notice that the doctor does *not* claim the picture is a fake.
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
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| User: "Adam H." |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 04:07:57 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:48:57 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:27:13 -0400, Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:21:47 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:01:30 GMT, "Loose Cannon" <looseain't@this.com>
wrote:
Sheesh! Didn't we just go through this a month or two ago? For the eighth or
ninth time?
If this "no-archive" simpleton-sock would have spent just a *moment*
researching this story, he could have saved himself from looking like a
tool.
If these folks would spend as much time seeking out the truth as they do
seeking out propaganda, they might someday not be viewed as "Absolutely
Gullible". <g>
"Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his finger for the baby to
hold."
Dr. Joseph Bruner at Vanderbilt is known for his work in fetal
surgery, especially on babies with spina bifida, a condition in which
the spine does not close properly during development. Vanderbilt
confirms that little Samuel Armus was 21 weeks-old in the womb which
makes the surgery very risky because if anything goes wrong, the baby
cannot survive on its own. Dr. Bruner and his colleagues, however,
have done numerous successful spina bifida surgeries on fetuses that
are not yet viable. In this particular surgery, the baby's hand poked
out of the incision in its mother's womb and Dr. Bruner says he
instinctively offered his finger for the baby to hold. Most versions
of the story say the baby reached out and grasped Dr. Bruner's finger,
but in an article in USA Today on May 2, 2000, Dr. Bruner says both
the mother and the baby were under anesthesia and could not move.
Michael Clancy, the photographer who took the picture and who owns the
copyright to it says, however, that out of the corner of his eye he
saw the uterus shake and the baby's hand pop out of the surgical
opening on its own. Clancy says that when the doctor put his finger
into the baby's hand, the baby squeezed the finger and held on. You
can read Clancy's description of the experience and more about the
picture at his website at www.michaelclancy.com.
Update: The surgery was successful and little Samuel Armas was born
on December 2, 1999, and has been developing well, according to his
parents, Alex and Julie Armas.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
So, we have the story of the photographer against the story of the man
*performing the surgery*.
Bruner is credible. Clancy is not in this case.
I quote from the above: "Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his
finger for the baby to hold."
The only thing to debate is whether the baby reached for the doctor or
the doctor reached for the baby. I accept the doctor's version.
You'll notice that the doctor does *not* claim the picture is a fake.
And the doctor also says that the baby did *not* grasp his hand, in
the URL previously given - directly contradicting what Clancy claims.
---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 02:42:16 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:22:42 -0400, Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com>
wrote:
Of course, if that site told the *whole* truth, it'd be more credible:
"Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his finger for the baby to
hold."
Dr. Joseph Bruner at Vanderbilt is known for his work in fetal
surgery, especially on babies with spina bifida, a condition in which
the spine does not close properly during development. Vanderbilt
confirms that little Samuel Armus was 21 weeks-old in the womb which
makes the surgery very risky because if anything goes wrong, the baby
cannot survive on its own. Dr. Bruner and his colleagues, however,
have done numerous successful spina bifida surgeries on fetuses that
are not yet viable. In this particular surgery, the baby's hand poked
out of the incision in its mother's womb and Dr. Bruner says he
instinctively offered his finger for the baby to hold. Most versions
of the story say the baby reached out and grasped Dr. Bruner's finger,
but in an article in USA Today on May 2, 2000, Dr. Bruner says both
the mother and the baby were under anesthesia and could not move.
Michael Clancy, the photographer who took the picture and who owns the
copyright to it says, however, that out of the corner of his eye he
saw the uterus shake and the baby's hand pop out of the surgical
opening on its own. Clancy says that when the doctor put his finger
into the baby's hand, the baby squeezed the finger and held on. You
can read Clancy's description of the experience and more about the
picture at his website at www.michaelclancy.com.
Update: The surgery was successful and little Samuel Armas was born
on December 2, 1999, and has been developing well, according to his
parents, Alex and Julie Armas.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
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| User: "i gathers" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 03:10:38 PM |
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(Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net>) :
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:22:42 -0400, Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com>
wrote:
Of course, if that site told the *whole* truth, it'd be more credible:
"Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his finger for the baby to
hold."
Dr. Joseph Bruner at Vanderbilt is known for his work in fetal
surgery, especially on babies with spina bifida, a condition in which
the spine does not close properly during development. Vanderbilt
confirms that little Samuel Armus was 21 weeks-old in the womb which
makes the surgery very risky because if anything goes wrong, the baby
cannot survive on its own. Dr. Bruner and his colleagues, however,
have done numerous successful spina bifida surgeries on fetuses that
are not yet viable. In this particular surgery, the baby's hand poked
out of the incision in its mother's womb and Dr. Bruner says he
instinctively offered his finger for the baby to hold. Most versions
of the story say the baby reached out and grasped Dr. Bruner's finger,
but in an article in USA Today on May 2, 2000, Dr. Bruner says both
the mother and the baby were under anesthesia and could not move.
Michael Clancy, the photographer who took the picture and who owns the
copyright to it says, however, that out of the corner of his eye he
saw the uterus shake and the baby's hand pop out of the surgical
opening on its own. Clancy says that when the doctor put his finger
into the baby's hand, the baby squeezed the finger and held on. You
can read Clancy's description of the experience and more about the
picture at his website at www.michaelclancy.com.
Update: The surgery was successful and little Samuel Armas was born
on December 2, 1999, and has been developing well, according to his
parents, Alex and Julie Armas.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
well, lovely, but what does that have to do with abortion?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_fact2.htm
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 03:20:15 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:10:38 -0500, i gathers <info@fbeye.org> wrote:
(Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net>) :
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:22:42 -0400, Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com>
wrote:
Of course, if that site told the *whole* truth, it'd be more credible:
"Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his finger for the baby to
hold."
Dr. Joseph Bruner at Vanderbilt is known for his work in fetal
surgery, especially on babies with spina bifida, a condition in which
the spine does not close properly during development. Vanderbilt
confirms that little Samuel Armus was 21 weeks-old in the womb which
makes the surgery very risky because if anything goes wrong, the baby
cannot survive on its own. Dr. Bruner and his colleagues, however,
have done numerous successful spina bifida surgeries on fetuses that
are not yet viable. In this particular surgery, the baby's hand poked
out of the incision in its mother's womb and Dr. Bruner says he
instinctively offered his finger for the baby to hold. Most versions
of the story say the baby reached out and grasped Dr. Bruner's finger,
but in an article in USA Today on May 2, 2000, Dr. Bruner says both
the mother and the baby were under anesthesia and could not move.
Michael Clancy, the photographer who took the picture and who owns the
copyright to it says, however, that out of the corner of his eye he
saw the uterus shake and the baby's hand pop out of the surgical
opening on its own. Clancy says that when the doctor put his finger
into the baby's hand, the baby squeezed the finger and held on. You
can read Clancy's description of the experience and more about the
picture at his website at www.michaelclancy.com.
Update: The surgery was successful and little Samuel Armas was born
on December 2, 1999, and has been developing well, according to his
parents, Alex and Julie Armas.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
well, lovely, but what does that have to do with abortion?
Ask the happy clappy hippy: http://urlcut.com/flowerpower
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 08:31:27 PM |
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"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2jrikeF14ltomU4@uni-berlin.de...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:10:38 -0500, i gathers <info@fbeye.org> wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:22:42 -0400, Adam H. <adam@mailinator.com>
wrote:
well, lovely, but what does that have to do with abortion?
Ask the happy clappy hippy: http://urlcut.com/flowerpower
======================
Why should I care how many women decided to abort? Why do you? I see no
relationship between the story of the baby having surgery in the womb and
abortion/abortion numbers.
--
FPower.......
But look what your Jehovah god said in his bible:
Psalm 137:9
"Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the
stones." (Infanticide was approved by god)
======================================
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| User: "Paul Anderson" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
22 Jun 2004 05:08:47 PM |
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 18:30:26 +0100, Absolutely Incredible
<yup@absolutelyincredible.demon.com> wrote:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
http://www.snopes.com/photos/thehand.asp
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| User: "hate feminism" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 03:00:51 AM |
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The pro-aborts are coming out with the predictable "refutations"...
Little do the braindead psychopathic liars know but that nothing does
nothing to disprove the self-evident reality that this is a baby...
How dense can these people be?
Absolutely Incredible wrote:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/babysamuel.htm
--
num tibi mentireris?
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 12:22:48 PM |
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"hate feminism" <feminism@is.hate> wrote in message
news:40D938B3.343DC13C@is.hate...
The pro-aborts are coming out with the predictable "refutations"...
Little do the braindead psychopathic liars know but that nothing does
nothing to disprove the self-evident reality that this is a baby...
$$ Maybe they don't CARE what you call it! Maybe their lives are more
important to them than an unwanted zygote at the time. If you don't believe
in abortion don't get one. Simple isn't it? ;-)
How dense can these people be?
$$ How selfish can people like YOU be? I notice you never mention what
happens to unwanted, resented children after they're born.
--
Flower Power.......
ANTI-Feminist definition: "Sick abusive controlling men" -->
adj. 1. A man who consistently supports
UNequal legal rights while opposing feminine equality.
2. Someone losing a debate with a feminist.
3. A woman who refuses to kowtow to ANTI-feminist propaganda.
Usually used as an ad-homonym attack because he has no reply (like Bob).
Translation: "You're wrong, but won't admit it."
Synonyms: terribly confused, defective brain, take the IQ-test, morons,
taking meds,
seek professional help, had one too many hits of crack, etc.
===============================================
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| User: "Felicia F. Flipalib" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 05:22:38 PM |
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"Flower Power" <FreeTheWomen@thisNG.edu> wrote in message news:<jY-dnbI-XqTyIUTdRVn-gw@heartoftn.net>...
"hate feminism" <feminism@is.hate> wrote in message
news:40D938B3.343DC13C@is.hate...
The pro-aborts are coming out with the predictable "refutations"...
Little do the braindead psychopathic liars know but that nothing does
nothing to disprove the self-evident reality that this is a baby...
$$ Maybe they don't CARE what you call it! Maybe their lives are more
important to them than an unwanted zygote at the time. If you don't believe
in abortion don't get one. Simple isn't it? ;-)
How dense can these people be?
$$ How selfish can people like YOU be? I notice you never mention what
happens to unwanted, resented children after they're born.
Not to worry, dearie. Your crowd will get around to killing them as
well. But first it will be the "unwanted, resented" older folks. Let's
not hurry these things. Like a fine wine, all "ideas" must age awhile.
No killi - uh, wine before its time, eh?
Felicia
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 08:27:09 PM |
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"Felicia F. Flipalib" <felicia@linkedto.voteprivacy.com> wrote in message
news:e4075b8.0406231422.675f2726@posting.google.com...
"Flower Power" <FreeTheWomen@thisNG.edu> wrote in message
news:<jY-dnbI-XqTyIUTdRVn-gw@heartoftn.net>...
"hate feminism" <feminism@is.hate> wrote in message
news:40D938B3.343DC13C@is.hate...
The pro-aborts are coming out with the predictable "refutations"...
Little do the braindead psychopathic liars know but that nothing does
nothing to disprove the self-evident reality that this is a baby...
$$ Maybe they don't CARE what you call it! Maybe their lives are more
important to them than an unwanted zygote at the time. If you don't
believe
in abortion don't get one. Simple isn't it? ;-)
How dense can these people be?
$$ How selfish can people like YOU be? I notice you never mention what
happens to unwanted, resented children after they're born.
===============================================
Not to worry, dearie. Your crowd will get around to killing them as
well.
* Yes, after they're caught for cold-blooded murder.
But first it will be the "unwanted, resented" older folks.
* The anti-choice crowd already did that - they murdered innocent clinic
workers and Drs.
Let's
not hurry these things. Like a fine wine, all "ideas" must age awhile.
No killi - uh, wine before its time, eh?
* No killi - uh, ... the clinic workers, mothers and Drs, eh? ;-)
Felicia
--
Flower Power...
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Pro-Choice
~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~{@
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking,
which leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy."
-- Robert Anton Wilson
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 12:24:40 PM |
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On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:22:48 -0500, "Flower Power"
<FreeTheWomen@thisNG.edu> wrote:
$$ How selfish can people like YOU be? I notice you never mention what
happens to unwanted, resented children after they're born.
Do they grow up to devote their lives to persuading frightened women
to kill their unborn babies?
--
num tibi mentireris?
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 03:40:09 PM |
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"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2jtsn9F154c5gU2@uni-berlin.de...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:22:48 -0500, "Flower Power"
<FreeTheWomen@thisNG.edu> wrote:
$$ How selfish can people like YOU be? I notice you never mention what
happens to unwanted, resented children after they're born.
================================
Do they grow up to devote their lives to persuading frightened women
to kill their unborn babies?
What frightened women? There are shelters for abused women who are living
in FEAR of men like you.
As for the unwanted children which you REFUSE to address. Many of them grow
up to be selfish, self-centered sickos like you, who would deprive women of
any rights, or equality of any kind. Many become drug addicts, drunks,
serial killers and common criminals.... with serious issues. But men like
you don't care because you made the unwilling women/girl PAY, PAY, PAY for
the temerity of having sex.
Why not just admit it's all about PUNISHING and controlling women - and
nothing to do with the welfare of unwanted children growing up in foster
care?
--
Flower Power.......
ANTI-Feminist definition: "Sick abusive controlling men" -->
adj. 1. A man who consistently supports
UNequal legal rights while opposing feminine equality.
2. Someone losing a debate with a feminist.
3. A woman who refuses to kowtow to ANTI-feminist propaganda.
Usually used as an ad-homonym attack because he has no reply (like Bob).
Translation: "You're wrong, but won't admit it."
Synonyms: terribly confused, defective brain, take the IQ-test, morons,
taking meds,
seek professional help, had one too many hits of crack, etc.
===============================================
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 03:51:32 PM |
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On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 15:40:09 -0500, "Flower Power"
<FreeTheWomen@thisNG.edu> wrote:
As for the unwanted children which you REFUSE to address. Many of them grow
up to be selfish, self-centered sickos
I see. Better to kill them before they are born, eh?
--
num tibi mentireris?
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 08:24:27 PM |
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"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2ju8r6F1666k1U3@uni-berlin.de...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 15:40:09 -0500, "Flower Power"
<FreeTheWomen@thisNG.edu> wrote:
As for the unwanted children which you REFUSE to address. Many of them
grow
up to be selfish, self-centered sickos
I see. Better to kill them before they are born, eh?
=========================
Better to teach birth control in the schools, churches and in the homes, eh?
--
Flower Power...
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Pro-Choice
~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~{@
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking,
which leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy."
-- Robert Anton Wilson
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| User: "J Young" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 11:56:27 PM |
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(Bethe Blasienz) wrote in message news:<20040623080848.23916.00000517@mb-m28.news.cs.com>...
From: hate feminism
isprove the self-evident reality that this is a baby...
In your mind and opinion only, it's a baby. So long as you think you're right
in your own mind, then that's all that matters.........attempting to convince
others that you are right is mere fantasy.
Bethe Blasienz
You're living in denial,Bethe.You know that it's a baby.
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| User: "Elmo" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
24 Jun 2004 10:12:45 AM |
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In article <9c2d0f9a.0406232056.324272ca@posting.google.com>, J Young
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
bethe57@cs.com (Bethe Blasienz) wrote in message
news:<20040623080848.23916.00000517@mb-m28.news.cs.com>...
From: hate feminism
isprove the self-evident reality that this is a baby...
In your mind and opinion only, it's a baby. So long as you think you're
right
in your own mind, then that's all that matters.........attempting to
convince
others that you are right is mere fantasy.
Bethe Blasienz
You're living in denial,Bethe.You know that it's a baby.
Why say something so stupid? I don't think it is stupid at all.
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 04:56:56 AM |
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On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:00:51 +1200, hate feminism <feminism@is.hate>
wrote:
The pro-aborts are coming out with the predictable "refutations"...
Little do the braindead psychopathic liars know but that nothing does
nothing to disprove the self-evident reality that this is a baby...
How dense can these people be?
I think we're finding out.
--
num tibi mentireris?
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| User: "Sean_MacCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 08:11:28 PM |
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hate feminism wrote:
The pro-aborts are coming out with the predictable "refutations"...
Little do the braindead psychopathic liars know but that nothing does
nothing to disprove the self-evident reality that this is a baby...
So what. If it were an adult enemy --say like a dreaded Iraqis-- would
you advocate killing it?
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Hand of Hope |
23 Jun 2004 08:30:08 PM |
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"Sean_MacCloud" <Sean_MacCloud@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40DA2A2A.1EDAEE6E@yahoo.com...
hate feminism wrote:
The pro-aborts are coming out with the predictable "refutations"...
Little do the braindead psychopathic liars know but that nothing does
nothing to disprove the self-evident reality that this is a baby...
So what. If it were an adult enemy --say like a dreaded Iraqis-- would
you advocate killing it?
============================
Probably he'll say no. The anti-choicers are very much into shooting and
killing innocent Dr's, and blowing up innocent clinic workers though. If a
few innocent bystanders (including children) or the clinic cleaning crew get
murdered in the process so much the better in their "god-fearing" eyes.
--
Flower Power...
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Pro-Choice
~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~{@
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking,
which leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy."
-- Robert Anton Wilson
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