Without the natural catastrophes - hurricanes, earthquakes,
tsunamais, volcanos - perhaps man would destroy himself.
Might interpret the birth pains solely in reference
natural phenomena - perhaps the earth is an egg, and some sort of chick is
struggling to come out.
A new species might replace that one that is evolved from
the monkeys, and acts exactly as one would predict from observing monkey
behavior. One descended from a cat would be more inquisitive and more
intelligent, one from a dog would be more loyal and trustworthy, one from an
elephant might have more dignity, one from a koala-bear might not be in a
rush.
The idea that homo sapiens is the pinnacle of creation is
cronyism.

Bush is going against God's command not to devide His land

"FOR BEHOLD, in those days and at that time when I shall reverse the
captivity and restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all
nations and will bring them down into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and there
will I deal with and execute judgment upon them for their treatment of My
people and of My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations
and because they have divided My land." [Joel 3:1-2

He and Clinton have brought judgment to the nations, removing His grace on
our purple majesty

Bush is going against God's command not to devide His land

"FOR BEHOLD, in those days and at that time when I shall reverse the
captivity and restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all
nations and will bring them down into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and there
will I deal with and execute judgment upon them for their treatment of My
people and of My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations
and because they have divided My land." [Joel 3:1-2

He and Clinton have brought judgment to the nations, removing His grace on
our purple majesty

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:l6pkk11349ervh9gkilql4h63thmuag9en@4ax.com...

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:41:44 GMT,
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:

"Gold Digger" <GlenDavis777@msn.com> provided this transcript:

by Hal Lindsey ---

By virtually unanimous agreement, a nuclear strike on the United
States by Muslim terrorists is inevitable. Endless parades of experts
have testified before Congress that it isn't a case of "if," but
"when."

Osama bin Laden claims to possess nuclear weapons. By now, we
should know enough to take his claims seriously. His claim is
feasible.
Former Russian security adviser Aleksandr Lebed testified before
Congress in 1998 that some 80 to 100 suitcase-size nuclear weapons
are missing from the Russian arsenal. Shortly thereafter, Lebed was
killed in a mysterious helicopter crash. Putin's government denies any
missing Russian nuclear weapons. But Alexey Yablokov, an adviser
to former Russian President Boris Yeltsin, has also repeated Lebed's
claim.

Former U.S. Deputy Energy Secretary Charles Curtis doesn't buy
Kremlin
assurances either: "We believe we have a full accounting of all of
Russia's
strategic weapons, but when it comes to tactical weapons - the
suitcase
variety - we do not know, and I'm not sure they do, either."

Indeed, a Russian defense official in charge of nuclear weapons
security
isn't sure at all. Igor Valynkin, chief of the Defense Ministry's 12th
Main
Directorate, recently told Izvestya that Moscow has ruled out joint
security
cooperation with the United States in securing nuclear arms. Valynkin
said,
"Russia's nuclear weapons storage facilities are not yet fully
equipped with
modern means of physical protection."

Following the collapse of the old Soviet Union, the Ukraine found
itself in
possession of several hundred nuclear suitcase devices the KGB
designed for
use as demolition weapons by Russian Special Forces. Each of these
nuclear
devices has a yield of about 0.6 kilotons. That is about the same as
the
Hiroshima bomb dropped on Japan in 1945.

The Soviets always denied they existed. But following the Soviet
Union's
collapse, we learned that the KGB not only miniaturized nuclear
weapons,
they also developed "backpack nukes." These terrorist dream weapons
remain
unaccounted for to this day.

The nuclear suitcases that went missing in 1991 from the former
Soviet Union
only weigh about 60 pounds, yet they pack the power that leveled
Hiroshima.
It is rumored that bin Laden bought as many as 20 of these from
Chechen
rebels.

The Arab newspaper, al-Hayat, reported in February 2004 that Osama
bin
Laden bought some of these devices from the Ukraine in 1998. Al-Hayat
wrote
that "bin-Laden is storing them for possible use somewhere, some
time - most
probably against American cities."

Suppose a Muslim suicide jihadist drove up to the center of a major
city
with one of these devices in his trunk and pulled the trigger? Where
his car
was would be a radioactive crater 200 feet deep and a thousand feet
wide.

Nothing recognizable would remain within at least 3,200 feet from
the center
of the crater (that's more than a half mile). There would only remain
a few
building foundations.

For two miles in all directions, only the strongest buildings would
remain
standing. Ninety-eight percent of the population within that radius
would
have died instantly. Three miles out, nearly everything would be
destroyed.
Half of the population within this ring would be dead. At least 40
percent
would be seriously injured.

At five miles from ground zero, most single-family homes would be
destroyed.
Five percent of the population within this ring would be killed, and
40
percent would be injured.

Seven miles out, flying glass, debris and thermal radiation would
injure 25
percent. The remaining seventy-five percent would not be visibly
injured,
but most would absorb lethal doses of radiation from the radioactive
debris.

And we must remember - al-Qaida always coordinates multiple attacks
in the
same operation. Therefore, we should expect that many cities in the
United
States would be hit with this nightmare scenario in the same hour.

I am not trying to frighten you. I am reporting what every reliable
indicator warns is coming. In this kind of disaster, only Christians
with a
firm faith in Jesus Christ and His promises will be able to
emotionally
survive. So prepare now. This is exactly the kind of situation for
which I
wrote "Faith for Earth's Final Hour."

But I believe there is another essential point being missed. Since
America
has forsaken the Christian principles on which our country was founded
and
on which all our founding documents were based, God's gracious
protection
that is so evident in American history is being withdrawn. We are also
forcing God's people, Israel, into indefensible positions in the land
God
swore on oath to give them forever.

I believe unless there is a major national repentance, America is
in for
worse catastrophes than can possibly be imagined. God help us.

Email Author: Hal Lindsey
mailto:hal@hallindseyoracle.com?Subject=Commentary_Comment

Now... behold, **I** show you a mystery ---

WHY has Hal Lindsey NOT yet made the obvious association
between the events starting with the 9/11 attack, and the
increasingly-frequent and more intense "birth pangs" scenario that
the Bible prophesied would occur with the approach or onset of the
Tribulation Period?

Mark 13:7-9 Matthew 24:7-9

"9/11" -- 7/7 in Madrid -- Tsunami -- London bombings --
"Katrina"...

Hal Lindsey (except for his occasional lapses into bigotry) is a
very
sharp troop. I'm betting that it won't take him TOO much longer to put
two and two together on this.

The next birth pang should, if this scenario now is in play, follow
close on the heels of Katrina. And be worse. Somewhere in the world,
and maybe in the USA. Hmmm... how much time passed between the
London bombings and Hurricane Katrina...?

(Is it time to evacuate Damascus yet?)

Isaiah 17:1-3

Now, Hurricane RITA is in the wings, and about to move onto the
stage. Poised to clobber Houston as a category 3 or 4, in a few days.
Our 4th largest city. Or -- it's possible that it could turn northward
in
time to make a direct hit on New Orleans.

EITHER of those scenarios could qualify as "a more frequent and
stronger 'birth pang,'" as discussed above.

And IF that plays out... perhaps thus being the largest natural
disaster in American history (records fall FAST with the "birth pangs"
scenario)... and IF this really *is* the progression of the Matt. 24:7-9
prophecy in action... then think about THIS:

An even MORE monumental cataclysm could then be expected
to impact the planet, somewhere, less than a month following Rita.

Should the Biblical birth pangs actually have started, one thing is
certain: the news will NEVER be boring again... and CNN will *never*
again have a slow news day.

I wonder how much of this we'll get to see before the Rapture hits?

Rita's up to 115-mph winds now, and growing stronger by the hour.

IF Rita causes *similar* or greater damage (in terms of monetary
property losses and lives lost) when compared to that wreaked by
Katrina -- then it appears VERY possible that the Bible's prophesied
"birth pangs" will be underway. But if it causes significantly *less*
damage, then these recent events may only be serving as a wake-up
call to the imminency of the *actual* "birth pang" events to come.

(Note: If Rita plays total havoc with our off-shore oil production
capabilities, and thus causes immense hardship to us for months to
come as a result... but little else... that still could be a
significantly
catastrophic event to qualify as an *actual* part of the Bible's
"birth pangs" prophecy.)

By Saturday evening (9/24) or Sunday, we should have a pretty
decent idea of which scenario is the more likely one that is currently
being played out.

Okay... the beat goes on! Yesterday's 7.6 Kashmir quake turns
out to have been the worst one in Pakistan's entire history. Going on
30,000 dead and counting, in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India.

Hurricanes Katrina and Rita were 25 days apart.

Rita and this earthquake were 15 days apart.

If these ARE the Biblical "birth pangs," they are accelerating.

The next major disaster, whether it be terrorist-driven, nature-
driven, or pestilence-driven (as in the probably-inevitable mutation
of the Bird Flu to human-human transmissibility, followed almost
immediately by worldwide pandemic)... should occur by Oct. 22nd.
IF this is indeed *the* "birth pangs" period, and not just a foreshad-
owing of it to get our attention.

Either way, it's becoming more and more apparent that the Rapture
is probably right around the corner. Perhaps as soon as within days,
weeks or months.

When THAT takes place, it'll be good news and bad news for those
taken up. Good news to find they weren't left behind to sweat out the
uncertainty of *maybe* reaching heaven later -- after lots of really hard
times. But bad news in terms of all their hopes, dreams and aspirations
for the future time on earth that they'd been looking forward to.

For from THAT standpoint, the Rapture will be the equivalent of
sudden death.

And that's an aspect that neither the Rapture believers or scoffers
ever seem to talk about. Reminding me of what I've been saying in
another thread -- we most assuredly seem to be a nation... not of
sheep so much as... of OSTRICHES.

-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:

"Gold Digger" <GlenDavis777@msn.com> provided this transcript:

by Hal Lindsey ---

By virtually unanimous agreement, a nuclear strike on the United
States by Muslim terrorists is inevitable. Endless parades of experts
have testified before Congress that it isn't a case of "if," but
"when."

Osama bin Laden claims to possess nuclear weapons. By now,
we should know enough to take his claims seriously. His claim is
feasible. Former Russian security adviser Aleksandr Lebed testified
before Congress in 1998 that some 80 to 100 suitcase-size nuclear
weapons are missing from the Russian arsenal. Shortly thereafter,
Lebed was killed in a mysterious helicopter crash. Putin's govern-
ment denies any missing Russian nuclear weapons. But Alexey
Yablokov, an adviser to former Russian President Boris Yeltsin, has
also repeated Lebed's claim.

Former U.S. Deputy Energy Secretary Charles Curtis doesn't buy
Kremlin assurances either: "We believe we have a full accounting of
all of Russia's strategic weapons, but when it comes to tactical
weapons -- the suitcase variety -- we do not know, and I'm not sure
they do, either."

Indeed, a Russian defense official in charge of nuclear weapons
security isn't sure at all. Igor Valynkin, chief of the Defense Ministry's
12th Main Directorate, recently told Izvestya that Moscow has ruled
out joint security cooperation with the United States in securing
nuclear arms. Valynkin said, "Russia's nuclear weapons storage
facilities are not yet fully equipped with modern means of physical
protection."

Following the collapse of the old Soviet Union, the Ukraine found
itself in possession of several hundred nuclear suitcase devices the
KGB designed for use as demolition weapons by Russian Special
Forces. Each of these nuclear devices has a yield of about 0.6 kt.
That is about the same as the Hiroshima bomb dropped on Japan
in 1945.

The Soviets always denied they existed. But following the Soviet
Union's collapse, we learned that the KGB not only miniaturized
nuclear weapons, they also developed "backpack nukes." These
terrorist dream weapons remain unaccounted for to this day.

The nuclear suitcases that went missing in 1991 from the former
Soviet Union only weigh about 60 pounds, yet they pack the power
that leveled Hiroshima.

It is rumored that bin Laden bought as many as 20 of these from
Chechen rebels.

The Arab newspaper, al-Hayat, reported in February 2004 that
Osama bin Laden bought some of these devices from the Ukraine
in 1998. Al-Hayat wrote that: "bin-Laden is storing them for
possible use somewhere, some time -- most probably against
American cities."

Suppose a Muslim suicide jihadist drove up to the center of a major
city with one of these devices in his trunk and pulled the trigger?
Where his car was would be a radioactive crater 200 feet deep
and a thousand feet wide.

Nothing recognizable would remain within at least 3,200 feet
from the center of the crater (that's more than a half mile). There
would only remain a few building foundations.

For two miles in all directions, only the strongest buildings would
remain standing. Ninety-eight percent of the population within that
radius would have died instantly.

Three miles out, nearly everything would be destroyed.

Half of the population within this ring would be dead. At
least 40 percent would be seriously injured.

At five miles from ground zero, most single-family homes
would be destroyed.

Five percent of the population within this ring would be
killed, and 40 percent would be injured.

Seven miles out, flying glass, debris and thermal radiation
would injure 25 percent. The remaining seventy-five percent
would not be visibly injured, but most would absorb lethal
doses of radiation from the radioactive debris.

And we must remember - al-Qaida always coordinates multiple
attacks in the same operation. Therefore, we should expect that
many cities in the United States would be hit with this nightmare
scenario in the same hour.

I am not trying to frighten you. I am reporting what every reliable
indicator warns is coming. In this kind of disaster, only Christians
with a firm faith in Jesus Christ and His promises will be able to
emotionally survive.

So prepare now. This is exactly the kind of situation for which
I wrote "Faith for Earth's Final Hour."

But I believe there is another essential point being missed.
Since America has forsaken the Christian principles on which
our country was founded and on which all our founding documents
were based, ...

God's gracious protection that is so evident in American history
is being withdrawn.

We are also forcing God's people, Israel, into indefensible
positions in the land God swore on oath to give them forever.

I believe unless there is a major national repentance, America is
in for worse catastrophes than can possibly be imagined.

God help us.

Email Author: Hal Lindsey
mailto:hal@hallindseyoracle.com?Subject=Commentary_Comment

Now... behold, **I** show you a mystery ---

WHY has Hal Lindsey NOT yet made the obvious association
between the events starting with the 9/11 attack, and the
increasingly-frequent and more intense "birth pangs" scenario that
the Bible prophesied would occur with the approach or onset of the
Tribulation Period?

Mark 13:7-9 Matthew 24:7-9

"9/11" -- 7/7 in Madrid -- Tsunami -- London bombings --
"Katrina"...

Hal Lindsey (except for his occasional lapses into bigotry, and a
bit of carelessness in his research) is a very sharp troop. I'm betting
that it won't take him TOO much longer to put two and two together
on this.

The next birth pang should, if this scenario now is in play, follow
close on the heels of Katrina. And be worse. Somewhere in the world,
and maybe in the USA. Hmmm... how much time passed between the
London bombings and Hurricane Katrina...?

(Is it time to evacuate Damascus yet?)

Isaiah 17:1-3

Now, Hurricane RITA is in the wings, and about to move onto the
stage. Poised to clobber Houston as a category 3 or 4, in a few days.
Our 4th largest city. Or -- it's possible that it could turn northward
in time to make a direct hit on New Orleans.

EITHER of those scenarios could qualify as "a more frequent and
stronger 'birth pang,'" as discussed above.

And IF that plays out... perhaps thus being the largest natural
disaster in American history (records fall FAST with the "birth pangs"
scenario)... and IF this really *is* the progression of the Matt. 24:7-9
prophecy in action... then think about THIS:

An even MORE monumental cataclysm could then be expected
to impact the planet, somewhere, less than a month following Rita.

Should the Biblical birth pangs actually have started, one thing is
certain: the news will NEVER be boring again... and CNN will *never*
again have a slow news day.

I wonder how much of this we'll get to see before the Rapture hits?

Rita's up to 115-mph winds now, and growing stronger by the hour.

IF Rita causes *similar* or greater damage (in terms of monetary
property losses and lives lost) when compared to that wreaked by
Katrina -- then it appears VERY possible that the Bible's prophesied
"birth pangs" will be underway. But if it causes significantly *less*
damage, then these recent events may only be serving as a wake-up
call to the imminency of the *actual* "birth pang" events to come.

(Note: If Rita plays total havoc with our off-shore oil production
capabilities, and thus causes immense hardship to us for months to
come as a result... but little else... that still could be a significantly
catastrophic event to qualify as an *actual* part of the Bible's
"birth pangs" prophecy.)

By Saturday evening (9/24) or Sunday, we should have a pretty
decent idea of which scenario is the more likely one that is currently
being played out.

Okay... the beat goes on! Yesterday's 7.6 Kashmir quake turns
out to have been the worst one in Pakistan's entire history. Going on
30,000 dead and counting, in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India.

Hurricanes Katrina and Rita were 25 days apart.

Rita and this earthquake were 15 days apart.

If these ARE the Biblical "birth pangs," they are accelerating.

The next major disaster, whether it be terrorist-driven, nature-
driven, or pestilence-driven (as in the probably-inevitable mutation
of the Bird Flu to human-human transmissibility, followed almost
immediately by worldwide pandemic)... should occur by Oct. 22nd.
IF this is indeed *the* "birth pangs" period, and not just a foreshad-
owing of it to get our attention.

Either way, it's becoming more and more apparent that the Rapture
is probably right around the corner. Perhaps as soon as within days,
weeks or months.

When THAT takes place, it'll be good news and bad news for those
taken up. Good news to find they weren't left behind to sweat out the
uncertainty of *maybe* reaching heaven later -- after lots of really hard
times. But bad news in terms of all their hopes, dreams and aspirations
for the future time on earth that they'd been looking forward to.

For from THAT standpoint, the Rapture will be the equivalent of
sudden death.

And that's an aspect that neither the Rapture believers or scoffers
ever seem to talk about. Reminding me of what I've been saying in
another thread -- we most assuredly seem to be a nation... not of
sheep so much as... of OSTRICHES.

Bush is going against God's command not to devide His land.

"FOR BEHOLD, in those days and at that time when I shall reverse the
captivity and restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all
nations and will bring them down into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and there
will I deal with and execute judgment upon them for their treatment of My
people and of My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the
nations and because they have divided My land." [Joel 3:1-2).

He and Clinton have brought judgment to the nations, removing His
grace on our purple majesty