Science > Abortion > High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
05 Apr 2006 12:25:21 AM |
| Object: |
High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
In the end, decency always wins the day.
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/afa/32006b.asp
(AgapePress) - A conservative student club at one Michigan high school has
won a major free-speech victory. After initially resisting the idea, school
administrators recently allowed the group to display its flag alongside the
rainbow colored flag of the school's Diversity Club.
Two years ago, members of the Traditional Values Club (TVC) at Howell High
School in Howell, Michigan, approached the school's administration and asked
permission to display their club's flag in the main school hallway. School
officials refused the request, however, saying the flag could not be flown
because the student group was not officially recognized by the school -- nor
could it be recognized until it found a faculty advisor willing to sponsor
it.
Steve Crampton is chief counsel with the American Family Association Center
for Law & Policy, which assisted the TVC. He says the Howell High School
faculty has been resistant to the student group's existence from its
beginning and was initially reluctant to sponsor the club.
"The reason there was no one willing to serve as faculty sponsor, in my
opinion, is because the school had already condemned the club, at one point
calling them a hate group," Crampton asserts. "What faculty member, knowing
that the administration has firmly stated that this is a hate group, wants
to be affiliated with it?"
And yet, the attorney notes, the members of the Traditional Values Club
stood tall, and "remarkably" continued to seek out a faculty member. When,
after two years of arduous effort, the student club "finally got a sponsor,"
he says, the members "immediately went back to the flag issue."
--
----------
J Young
youngopinions@aol.com
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| User: "The Pervert" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
11 Apr 2006 06:57:00 PM |
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"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:nibo325plqc4vd5fbtbjjniv33m5tjp5gg@4ax.com...
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:05:15 -0700, "The Pervert"
<pervert12@spambad.yahoo.com>
wrote:
... but your obvious distrust, of answering simple questions, makes it
impossible, no matter what you may now answer.
Simple questions? No. Loaded questions. And that statement reinforces
my
reasonable distrust.
No, they ware not loaded.
I don't believe you.
If you had actually read what I posted,
Of course I did. Don't treat me like a moron unless you want the same
disrespect back.
you would have seen that the second part
of each question, was "Why?", allowing you to qualify your answers.
Loaded questions can be qualified which puts the responder in a defnsive
position. I chose not to play the game.
Loaded questions, do not allow you to do that.
Sure they do. Cleverly written, loaded questions, as your were, are still
manipulative and not really looking for a legitimate answer. You were
looking for confrontation. I chose not to play.
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
11 Apr 2006 07:27:28 PM |
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On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:57:00 -0700, "The Pervert" <pervert12@spambad.yahoo.com>
wrote:
"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:nibo325plqc4vd5fbtbjjniv33m5tjp5gg@4ax.com...
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:05:15 -0700, "The Pervert"
<pervert12@spambad.yahoo.com>
wrote:
... but your obvious distrust, of answering simple questions, makes it
impossible, no matter what you may now answer.
Simple questions? No. Loaded questions. And that statement reinforces
my
reasonable distrust.
No, they ware not loaded.
I don't believe you.
Suit your self.
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| User: "hc23hc" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
10 Apr 2006 12:29:19 PM |
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The Pervert, war criminal, wrote:
You lie. Why do have to lie to try to make a point? Is your
position so fragile? Sad.
But to make you happy, I'm a straight guy in my fifties who
is most attracted to attractive women in their thirties and forties.
You lie. Not only are you a big fat closet homo weirdo, you're a
perverted war criminal who belongs in jail.
The Pervert wrote:
I like to wine and dine a classy lady and then ***** her while
hubby discreetly watches. I am a SWM in the L.A. area.
Real people only. No weirdos.
..
..
..
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| User: "The Watch Dog" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
10 Apr 2006 01:13:49 AM |
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The Pervert wrote:
My reply is your silly "quiz" makes no sense and is not germane to the
matter of labeling people you disagree with as "hate groups."
Although it wasn't my quiz, I'd like to comment: I DON'T label people I
disagree with as "hate groups." For example, I woulod never label a
cigar club a "hate group," even though I may disagree with what they're
doing.
No, I label hate groups "hate groups." You can generally tell by their
actions and their rhetoric. They repeat false or misleading statistics,
and never correct themselves when they're shown to be wrong; they use a
double standard when judging the group they're opposed to; they use
anecdotes about individuals in a minority group to try to encourage
stereotypes about the entire group, without admitting the obvious fact
that people OUTSIDE the minority group do the same thing, or equivalent
things.
The "pro-family" organizations talking about gays today sound exactly
like the "pro-Christian" groups of the 1930's pushing anti-Semitism
(I'm not talking about Germany, I'm talking about the U.S.), the
"women's protection" groups worried about interracial marriage, and so
on. It's not hard to recognize this stuff if you open your eyes.
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| User: "The Pervert" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
10 Apr 2006 10:54:09 AM |
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"The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144649629.254126.19280@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
The Pervert wrote:
My reply is your silly "quiz" makes no sense and is not germane to the
matter of labeling people you disagree with as "hate groups."
Although it wasn't my quiz, I'd like to comment: I DON'T label people I
disagree with as "hate groups." For example, I woulod never label a
cigar club a "hate group," even though I may disagree with what they're
doing.
No, I label hate groups "hate groups." You can generally tell by their
actions and their rhetoric. They repeat false or misleading statistics,
and never correct themselves when they're shown to be wrong; they use a
double standard when judging the group they're opposed to; they use
anecdotes about individuals in a minority group to try to encourage
stereotypes about the entire group, without admitting the obvious fact
that people OUTSIDE the minority group do the same thing, or equivalent
things.
The "pro-family" organizations talking about gays today sound exactly
like the "pro-Christian" groups of the 1930's pushing anti-Semitism
(I'm not talking about Germany, I'm talking about the U.S.), the
"women's protection" groups worried about interracial marriage, and so
on. It's not hard to recognize this stuff if you open your eyes.
"Hate Groups" is just the trendy term of the day, and that's what I object
to. Sure, I'll agree that they're full of ***** and hypocritical. One might
say that your speech is just as hateful as theirs. Not quite as hateful,
but almost as intolerant.
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| User: "The Watch Dog" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
10 Apr 2006 12:45:08 PM |
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The Pervert wrote:
"Hate Groups" is just the trendy term of the day, and that's what I object
to. Sure, I'll agree that they're full of ***** and hypocritical. One might
say that your speech is just as hateful as theirs. Not quite as hateful,
but almost as intolerant.
"Hate groups" is not the trendy term of the day, it is an accurate
description.
And I admit it: I am intolerant. Not of Catholics. Not of white men.
Not of married women with three children. Not of Jews. But of
intolerance.
No apologies for that. If I weren't, I would not be able to support
peopleand groups who are the victims of prejudice, discrimination, and
bigotry.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
10 Apr 2006 12:46:39 PM |
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Dubh Ghall wrote:
A Test.
Do You Have Pedophiliac Leanings?
Assuming that the following questions refer to the gender to which you are
naturally attracted, I.E, if you are a heterosexual male, assume that the
questions refer to a female.
<snip>
Q4:Place the following in the order that you would generally find them most
sexually attractive
a: a fourteen year old?
b: a forty four year old?
c: a seventy four year old?
d: why did you pick that for No1?
You should note that none of your questions really address
pedophelia. In western societies, earlier and earlier onset
of puberty results in most fourteen year olds having
physical development much more like that of an adult
than that of a child, pedophelia refers specifically to
adults with sexual attraction to people with the physique
of a child.
Do you remember that adult film star who
was actually only 16, but passed herself off as 18 with
false documents? Were people watching her
performances pedophiles in anything beyond
the legal sense?
Granted, someone who has sexual relations with
a fourteen year old is labeled as a pedophile, but
that's a legal label and and should be treated as
such. If your questions replaced answer a with an
eight year old, then the title for your quiz would
be more accurate.
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
10 Apr 2006 04:59:47 PM |
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On 10 Apr 2006 10:46:39 -0700, wrote:
Dubh Ghall wrote:
A Test.
Do You Have Pedophiliac Leanings?
Assuming that the following questions refer to the gender to which you are
naturally attracted, I.E, if you are a heterosexual male, assume that the
questions refer to a female.
<snip>
Q4:Place the following in the order that you would generally find them most
sexually attractive
a: a fourteen year old?
b: a forty four year old?
c: a seventy four year old?
d: why did you pick that for No1?
You should note that none of your questions really address
pedophelia.
Another would be mind reader.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
11 Apr 2006 08:00:06 AM |
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Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 10 Apr 2006 10:46:39 -0700, wrote:
You should note that none of your questions really address
pedophelia.
Another would be mind reader.
Your quiz has a flaw. Deal with it as you will.
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
11 Apr 2006 12:14:28 PM |
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On 11 Apr 2006 06:00:06 -0700, wrote:
Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 10 Apr 2006 10:46:39 -0700, wrote:
You should note that none of your questions really address
pedophelia.
Another would be mind reader.
Your quiz has a flaw. Deal with it as you will.
So without knowing what I am trying to find, how I would use the information,
or what I'm trying to show: You can tell me that my questionnaire has a flaw.
Sounds like a mind reader, to me.
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| User: "The Pervert" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
12 Apr 2006 04:39:53 AM |
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"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:efon32lbiutum6ajjck5e4ptgptkjqkdcv@4ax.com...
On 11 Apr 2006 06:00:06 -0700, wrote:
Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 10 Apr 2006 10:46:39 -0700, wrote:
You should note that none of your questions really address
pedophelia.
Another would be mind reader.
Your quiz has a flaw. Deal with it as you will.
So without knowing what I am trying to find, how I would use the
information,
or what I'm trying to show: You can tell me that my questionnaire has a
flaw.
Sounds like a mind reader, to me.
Sounds like another person who trusts neither you, nor your quiz.
Sounds prudent to me.
Two people who don't trust you, yet it's their fault.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
11 Apr 2006 12:22:59 PM |
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Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 11 Apr 2006 06:00:06 -0700, wrote:
Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 10 Apr 2006 10:46:39 -0700, wrote:
You should note that none of your questions really address
pedophelia.
Another would be mind reader.
Your quiz has a flaw. Deal with it as you will.
So without knowing what I am trying to find, how I would use the information,
or what I'm trying to show: You can tell me that my questionnaire has a flaw.
You're talking about pedophiles, but asking questions about
young adults. Therefore, if you actually want to be talking
about pedophiles, you're going in the wrong direction. That's
all I'm saying.
Sounds like a mind reader, to me.
If you aren't actually talking about pedophiles but merely
pretending to for some mysterious purpose, so be it.
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
11 Apr 2006 04:56:39 PM |
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On 11 Apr 2006 10:22:59 -0700, wrote:
Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 11 Apr 2006 06:00:06 -0700, wrote:
Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 10 Apr 2006 10:46:39 -0700, wrote:
You should note that none of your questions really address
pedophelia.
Another would be mind reader.
Your quiz has a flaw. Deal with it as you will.
So without knowing what I am trying to find, how I would use the information,
or what I'm trying to show: You can tell me that my questionnaire has a flaw.
You're talking about pedophiles,
I was attempting to answer a question about pedophiles.
but asking questions about
young adults.
I asked about three ages, in four groups, in four, two part questions.
You obviously saw the youngest age in each question., and thought no farther.
An Olympic standard display of conclusion jumping
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| User: "The Pervert" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
12 Apr 2006 04:44:06 AM |
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"Dubh Ghall" <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote in message
news:i68o3214dqai8lb4m1o66abd228b87m39j@4ax.com...
On 11 Apr 2006 10:22:59 -0700, wrote:
You obviously saw the youngest age in each question., and thought no
farther.
An Olympic standard display of conclusion jumping
NOW who is doing the world class conclusion jumping?
There is an outside chance that you are legit, but a reasonable examination
of your posts would not support that.
Caution in dealing with you is justified.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
12 Apr 2006 07:50:20 AM |
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Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 11 Apr 2006 10:22:59 -0700, wrote:
Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 11 Apr 2006 06:00:06 -0700, wrote:
Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 10 Apr 2006 10:46:39 -0700, wrote:
You should note that none of your questions really address
pedophelia.
Another would be mind reader.
Your quiz has a flaw. Deal with it as you will.
So without knowing what I am trying to find, how I would use the information,
or what I'm trying to show: You can tell me that my questionnaire has a flaw.
You're talking about pedophiles,
I was attempting to answer a question about pedophiles.
but asking questions about
young adults.
I asked about three ages, in four groups, in four, two part questions.
You obviously saw the youngest age in each question., and thought no farther.
You're still not seeing the problem. You're telling yourself
that you're talking about pedophiles, but none of the age
groups you mentioned anywhere in your quiz were appropriate
to such a discussion in anything but the legal sense.
An Olympic standard display of conclusion jumping
As compared to your jump of an inch and claiming a mile?
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
05 Apr 2006 08:20:10 AM |
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Previously, on alt.atheism, Andrealphus in episode
<5XMYf.228$sq5.149@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
In News m5qdnZTt_Yk9GK7ZRVn-pw@comcast.com,, The Pervert at
pervert12@spambad.yahoo.com, typed this:
"The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144220274.919066.259870@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I would be curious to know what the positions of the Traditional Values
group are.
If they are: there's nothing wrong with getting married. You shouldn't
discriminate against people who stay virgins until they're adults. A
mom and a dad with their own biological children can be as good a
family as anyone else, and should be treated with respect.... then I'd
say, good for them! I'm with you 100%! The school should certainly give
you as much rights as the gay-straight alliance.
If they are: there's something wrong with homosexuals. They shouldn't
be given the same rights as everyone else. They do not deserve equal
respect or dignity... well, then, I'd say they are a hate group no
matter what they CALL themselves, that they encourage unequal treatment
of students in the school, and they are no more welcome than a group
whose official positions are anti-Jewish, anti-Asian, or anti-Catholic.
Here's a hypothetical for you. Do you believe that pedophiles have
something wrong with them?
There is always some fucking moron that trots out the pedophile issue.
Have you never discovered the difference between sex with consenting
adults, and non-consentual sex between an adult and a minor?
OMFG! The Pedophiles! The Pedophiles! You sick bastards are like a
broken record.
It's either that or bestiality.
You really have to wonder about people who think about bestiality so much...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Dennis Kemmerer" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
05 Apr 2006 02:22:38 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:_eCdndpCIbSXWa7ZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@megapath.net...
Previously, on alt.atheism, Andrealphus in episode
<5XMYf.228$sq5.149@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
In News m5qdnZTt_Yk9GK7ZRVn-pw@comcast.com,, The Pervert at
pervert12@spambad.yahoo.com, typed this:
"The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144220274.919066.259870@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I would be curious to know what the positions of the Traditional Values
group are.
If they are: there's nothing wrong with getting married. You shouldn't
discriminate against people who stay virgins until they're adults. A
mom and a dad with their own biological children can be as good a
family as anyone else, and should be treated with respect.... then I'd
say, good for them! I'm with you 100%! The school should certainly give
you as much rights as the gay-straight alliance.
If they are: there's something wrong with homosexuals. They shouldn't
be given the same rights as everyone else. They do not deserve equal
respect or dignity... well, then, I'd say they are a hate group no
matter what they CALL themselves, that they encourage unequal treatment
of students in the school, and they are no more welcome than a group
whose official positions are anti-Jewish, anti-Asian, or anti-Catholic.
Here's a hypothetical for you. Do you believe that pedophiles have
something wrong with them?
There is always some fucking moron that trots out the pedophile issue.
Have you never discovered the difference between sex with consenting
adults, and non-consentual sex between an adult and a minor?
OMFG! The Pedophiles! The Pedophiles! You sick bastards are like a
broken record.
It's either that or bestiality.
You really have to wonder about people who think about bestiality so
much...
Oh, I've also seen them obsess about sex with inanimate objects, e.g.,
Buicks.
.
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| User: "Jeff North" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
05 Apr 2006 07:13:35 PM |
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On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:22:38 GMT, in alt.politics.homosexuality
"Dennis Kemmerer" <dk@suespammers.org>
<2OUYf.62296$H71.52778@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> wrote:
| "Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
| news:_eCdndpCIbSXWa7ZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@megapath.net...
| > Previously, on alt.atheism, Andrealphus in episode
| > <5XMYf.228$sq5.149@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
| >
| >> In News m5qdnZTt_Yk9GK7ZRVn-pw@comcast.com,, The Pervert at
| >> pervert12@spambad.yahoo.com, typed this:
| >>
| >>> "The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote in message
| >>> news:1144220274.919066.259870@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| >>>> I would be curious to know what the positions of the Traditional Values
| >>>> group are.
| >>>>
| >>>> If they are: there's nothing wrong with getting married. You shouldn't
| >>>> discriminate against people who stay virgins until they're adults. A
| >>>> mom and a dad with their own biological children can be as good a
| >>>> family as anyone else, and should be treated with respect.... then I'd
| >>>> say, good for them! I'm with you 100%! The school should certainly give
| >>>> you as much rights as the gay-straight alliance.
| >>>>
| >>>> If they are: there's something wrong with homosexuals. They shouldn't
| >>>> be given the same rights as everyone else. They do not deserve equal
| >>>> respect or dignity... well, then, I'd say they are a hate group no
| >>>> matter what they CALL themselves, that they encourage unequal treatment
| >>>> of students in the school, and they are no more welcome than a group
| >>>> whose official positions are anti-Jewish, anti-Asian, or anti-Catholic.
| >>>
| >>> Here's a hypothetical for you. Do you believe that pedophiles have
| >>> something wrong with them?
| >>
| >> There is always some fucking moron that trots out the pedophile issue.
| >> Have you never discovered the difference between sex with consenting
| >> adults, and non-consentual sex between an adult and a minor?
| >>
| >> OMFG! The Pedophiles! The Pedophiles! You sick bastards are like a
| >> broken record.
| >
| > It's either that or bestiality.
| >
| > You really have to wonder about people who think about bestiality so
| > much...
|
| Oh, I've also seen them obsess about sex with inanimate objects, e.g.,
| Buicks.
and trees
---------------------------------------------------------------
I often wish that email had never been invented, but there’s
just no way I can get rid of it. So, day after day, several times
a day, I dutifully delete 99% of the emails I receive, and when
I’m not able to get at my email for a few days, I’ll leave the
machine at home running to pick it up every 10 minutes so I don’t
overflow some capacity somewhere, and just the other day I caught
myself wondering who will clean out my Inbox after I’m dead.
Charles Petzold. October 20, 2005
---------------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
06 Apr 2006 08:02:21 AM |
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Previously, on alt.atheism, Dennis Kemmerer in episode
<2OUYf.62296$H71.52778@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>...
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in message
news:_eCdndpCIbSXWa7ZnZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@megapath.net...
Previously, on alt.atheism, Andrealphus in episode
<5XMYf.228$sq5.149@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
In News m5qdnZTt_Yk9GK7ZRVn-pw@comcast.com,, The Pervert at
pervert12@spambad.yahoo.com, typed this:
"The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144220274.919066.259870@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I would be curious to know what the positions of the Traditional
Values group are.
If they are: there's nothing wrong with getting married. You
shouldn't discriminate against people who stay virgins until they're
adults. A mom and a dad with their own biological children can be as
good a family as anyone else, and should be treated with respect....
then I'd say, good for them! I'm with you 100%! The school should
certainly give you as much rights as the gay-straight alliance.
If they are: there's something wrong with homosexuals. They shouldn't
be given the same rights as everyone else. They do not deserve equal
respect or dignity... well, then, I'd say they are a hate group no
matter what they CALL themselves, that they encourage unequal
treatment of students in the school, and they are no more welcome
than a group whose official positions are anti-Jewish, anti-Asian, or
anti-Catholic.
Here's a hypothetical for you. Do you believe that pedophiles have
something wrong with them?
There is always some fucking moron that trots out the pedophile issue.
Have you never discovered the difference between sex with consenting
adults, and non-consentual sex between an adult and a minor?
OMFG! The Pedophiles! The Pedophiles! You sick bastards are like a
broken record.
It's either that or bestiality.
You really have to wonder about people who think about bestiality so
much...
Oh, I've also seen them obsess about sex with inanimate objects, e.g.,
Buicks.
Erm... I don't even want to think about that one...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
05 Apr 2006 08:19:13 AM |
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Previously, on alt.atheism, The Pervert in episode
<m5qdnZTt_Yk9GK7ZRVn-pw@comcast.com>...
Here's a hypothetical for you. Do you believe that pedophiles have
something wrong with them?
There is no comparison to be made. None.
We're talking consensual behavior. Pedophilia is never consensual. Trying
to make a comparison of any kind is tantamount to claiming all
heterosexual sex is "rape."
If you do, doesn't that constitute (by your
logic above) a hate position by you? In some places, there are still laws
against homosexual behavior,
Not in the US. Not anymore.
just as there are laws against pedophilia.
By the logic you cite above, should those pedophiles be given the same
rights and respect as everyone else? Or do you advocate unequal treatment
for these people and qualify as advocating a hate position against them?
We've always "unequally treated" people who force themselves on others.
Certainly my hypothetical is extreme (for effect), and of course I do not
advocate any respect or undue rights for molesters. My point is that I
think your declaration is a bit simplistic, and the term "hate group"
could become little more than a PC buzzword.
Or it's dead on accurate...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Kate" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
05 Apr 2006 11:53:16 AM |
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Here's a hypothetical for you. Do you believe that pedophiles have
something wrong with them?
T>here is no comparison to be made. None.
We're talking consensual behavior. Pedophilia is never consensual. Trying
to make a comparison of any kind is tantamount to claiming all
heterosexual sex is "rape."
You know what - I'm going to disagree with you here. Pedohilia is the
~desire~ for sex with children, not the action. Just as homosexuality
is the desire not the action. A person who rapes a person of the same
sex to humiliate them, is not a homosexual - they are abusive.
The problem is when peds actually abuse children. If all they did was
look at cartoons of naked kids or married women who looked young, you
wouldn't have a problem with them. It's only when you actually involve
children in sex that you become abusive because as you noted, children
can't consent.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
06 Apr 2006 12:10:20 PM |
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Previously, on alt.atheism, Kate in episode
<1144255996.014504.153990@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>...
Here's a hypothetical for you. Do you believe that pedophiles have
something wrong with them?
T>here is no comparison to be made. None.
We're talking consensual behavior. Pedophilia is never consensual. Trying
to make a comparison of any kind is tantamount to claiming all
heterosexual sex is "rape."
You know what - I'm going to disagree with you here. Pedohilia is the
~desire~ for sex with children, not the action. Just as homosexuality is
the desire not the action. A person who rapes a person of the same sex
to humiliate them, is not a homosexual - they are abusive.
The problem is when peds actually abuse children. If all they did was
look at cartoons of naked kids or married women who looked young, you
wouldn't have a problem with them. It's only when you actually involve
children in sex that you become abusive because as you noted, children
can't consent.
But in terms of society, only behavior matters. Somebody could, for
example, have rape fantasies all day long but if they never *act on them,
it's not relevant to anything.
I actually get rather irritated at both sides of the "choice vs.
orientation" psuedo-debate. Because far as a free society goes, it is
*utterly *irrelevant. In the main, what consenting adults do is no
business of society and the burden is on society to prove compelling
interest by way of showing there is some kind of harm caused to people who
aren't consenting (it's the old "you have the right to swing your arms up
to the point of my nose" kind of thing).
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
I just love this one...
"For those of us who grew up in Louisiana,
'The Wizard of Oz' was like a documentary.
Dorothy left Kansas and simply went to Mardi Gras."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2EA439BC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "nuwsguy" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
05 Apr 2006 07:38:58 AM |
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The Pervert wrote:
"The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144220274.919066.259870@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I would be curious to know what the positions of the Traditional Values
group are.
If they are: there's nothing wrong with getting married. You shouldn't
discriminate against people who stay virgins until they're adults. A
mom and a dad with their own biological children can be as good a
family as anyone else, and should be treated with respect.... then I'd
say, good for them! I'm with you 100%! The school should certainly give
you as much rights as the gay-straight alliance.
If they are: there's something wrong with homosexuals. They shouldn't
be given the same rights as everyone else. They do not deserve equal
respect or dignity... well, then, I'd say they are a hate group no
matter what they CALL themselves, that they encourage unequal treatment
of students in the school, and they are no more welcome than a group
whose official positions are anti-Jewish, anti-Asian, or anti-Catholic.
Here's a hypothetical for you. Do you believe that pedophiles have
something wrong with them?
Was there something wrong with God and Joseph for having sex
with a 12 year old girl named Mary?
If you do, doesn't that constitute (by your
logic above) a hate position by you? In some places, there are still laws
against homosexual behavior,
If so, they are not enforceable because they have been found
to be unconstitutional.
just as there are laws against pedophilia. By
the logic you cite above, should those pedophiles be given the same rights
and respect as everyone else? Or do you advocate unequal treatment for
these people and qualify as advocating a hate position against them?
In Kansas, 12 year olds can marry, and in Florida and Georgia
if a girl is pregnant you can marry her at any age. What does
that make those states for having such laws? Pedophile activists.
Certainly my hypothetical is extreme (for effect), and of course I do not
advocate any respect or undue rights for molesters. My point is that I
think your declaration is a bit simplistic, and the term "hate group" could
become little more than a PC buzzword.
That being said, I have the feeling that most "family values" groups and
advocates are usually way over the top in their lack of allowing for any
difference of opinion or perspective than theirs. My question is, then,
might that same type of myopic perspective also apply to your declaration
above?
P.S. This neither a loaded nor a simple question for you. Indeed, I think
it's very difficult and not at all simple. I would be interested in your
considered response.
When one group has the right to marry consenting adults
and the other does not, it can only be based upon
discrimination = hate.
.
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| User: "The Watch Dog" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
08 Apr 2006 11:01:12 PM |
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The Pervert wrote:
"The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144220274.919066.259870@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I would be curious to know what the positions of the Traditional Values
group are.
If they are: there's nothing wrong with getting married. You shouldn't
discriminate against people who stay virgins until they're adults. A
mom and a dad with their own biological children can be as good a
family as anyone else, and should be treated with respect.... then I'd
say, good for them! I'm with you 100%! The school should certainly give
you as much rights as the gay-straight alliance.
If they are: there's something wrong with homosexuals. They shouldn't
be given the same rights as everyone else. They do not deserve equal
respect or dignity... well, then, I'd say they are a hate group no
matter what they CALL themselves, that they encourage unequal treatment
of students in the school, and they are no more welcome than a group
whose official positions are anti-Jewish, anti-Asian, or anti-Catholic.
Here's a hypothetical for you. Do you believe that pedophiles have
something wrong with them? If you do, doesn't that constitute (by your
logic above) a hate position by you? In some places, there are still laws
against homosexual behavior, just as there are laws against pedophilia. By
the logic you cite above, should those pedophiles be given the same rights
and respect as everyone else? Or do you advocate unequal treatment for
these people and qualify as advocating a hate position against them?
Certainly my hypothetical is extreme (for effect), and of course I do not
advocate any respect or undue rights for molesters. My point is that I
think your declaration is a bit simplistic, and the term "hate group" could
become little more than a PC buzzword.
That being said, I have the feeling that most "family values" groups and
advocates are usually way over the top in their lack of allowing for any
difference of opinion or perspective than theirs. My question is, then,
might that same type of myopic perspective also apply to your declaration
above?
P.S. This neither a loaded nor a simple question for you. Indeed, I think
it's very difficult and not at all simple. I would be interested in your
considered response.
I put off answering this question for a long time because, frankly, I
found it very frustrating. I don't know you; you may be a very decent
and accepting person who just thought they were coming up with a useful
(if extreme) hypothetical example. But, whenever gays rights are
discussed, pedophilia is brought up SO often, and SO quickly, that
eventually people get very tired of having to respond to it. Again and
again and again.
My answer to your question would be: "Pedophiles exploit and harm
unwilling victims, so there is something wrong with them." And then I'd
stop talking about pedophiles.
As for gay students, gay-straight alliances, and Traditional Values
Student Groups that (perhaps) have an anti-gay position: my feelings on
this are not based on some abstract, nebulous idea that "nothing is
wrong with anybody and everybody should be able to do anything they
please." It's based on actually knowing gay teen-agers (and listening
to gay adults talk about their teen years), and hearing what their
lives are like. Before anybody ways in on a subject like this, I hope
they would do the same - get educated; talk to actual gay kids and gay
adults; learn just how common and ugly bullying, insults, and
harrassments directed against gay kids (or kids perceived to be gay,
whether they are or not) are in high school; read up on the results of
"generic" non-bullying programs, vs. programs that deal with SPECIFIC
EXAMPLES (the latter always work better, as any teacher could guess).
Then we can have a reasonable discussion about school organizations.
Without that, we all simply forget that there are PEOPLE involved, and
that lives at stake.
If students wanted to start a group at school whose stated position was
"gays deserve less rights and less respect than straights," then, yes,
I would call that a hate group - directed against students who are
already subject to a great deal of hateful treatment. I would feel
exactly the same way about a group that said that about black boys
dating white girls (a behavior, and one that some people have religious
objections to), or about Jews, or about Catholics. I don't care whether
they call themselves "The Traditional Values Students Group" or the "We
Hate THEM Organization." They are poison in a school environment.
Now, as I said, if the group merely supported equality and respectful
treatment for those who are living a "traditional values" life, then
I'm 100% behind them. But I suspect they mainly came together to "fight
against the gay agenda" instead - which is to say, against equality -
and to make things harder for gay kids. Who already have it hard enough.
.
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| User: "hc23hc" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
12 Apr 2006 09:50:30 PM |
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The Pervert, war criminal, wrote:
The Watch Dog wrote
I would be curious to know what the positions of the Traditional Values
group are.
If they are: there's nothing wrong with getting married. You shouldn't
discriminate against people who stay virgins until they're adults. A
mom and a dad with their own biological children can be as good a
family as anyone else, and should be treated with respect.... then I'd
say, good for them! I'm with you 100%! The school should certainly give
you as much rights as the gay-straight alliance.
If they are: there's something wrong with homosexuals. They shouldn't
be given the same rights as everyone else. They do not deserve equal
respect or dignity... well, then, I'd say they are a hate group no
matter what they CALL themselves, that they encourage unequal treatment
of students in the school, and they are no more welcome than a group
whose official positions are anti-Jewish, anti-Asian, or anti-Catholic.
Here's a hypothetical for you. Do you believe that pedophiles have
something wrong with them? If you do, doesn't that constitute (by your
logic above) a hate position by you? In some places, there are still laws
against homosexual behavior, just as there are laws against pedophilia. By
the logic you cite above, should those pedophiles be given the same rights
and respect as everyone else? Or do you advocate unequal treatment for
these people and qualify as advocating a hate position against them?
Certainly my hypothetical is extreme (for effect), and of course I do not
advocate any respect or undue rights for molesters. My point is that I
think your declaration is a bit simplistic, and the term "hate group" could
become little more than a PC buzzword.
That being said, I have the feeling that most "family values" groups and
advocates are usually way over the top in their lack of allowing for any
difference of opinion or perspective than theirs. My question is, then,
might that same type of myopic perspective also apply to your declaration
above?
P.S. This neither a loaded nor a simple question for you. Indeed, I think
it's very difficult and not at all simple. I would be interested in your
considered response.
"Interested" ? That's one way of putting it, Bombsaway Bob The
Pervert. Here's another:
You're not only a war criminal, you're also a fat vintage sex troll.
The Pervert trolling for young flesh on alt.personals as "The Literate
One" :
My vision for you is to look as vanilla as possible in many ways.
While
sexual fun and games are great, and bizarre looks can be fun on a
short-term basis, the real world generally suggests that a "normal"
look
works best in the long run. Personally, I like a relatively normal
look. My outside costuming does not determine who I am. It
facilitates
me getting what I want. Body piercings (except for one ear ring) and
tatoos do not do anything for me. Intelligence is most attractive to
me. Independance is attractive to me. At the same time, a young woman
needs guidance in discovering her sexuality. Prudent restraint may be
in order at times, and perhaps the addded guidance of other people.
As to yeilding up your virginity, I think that should be tabled for the
present time until a more appropriate opportunity and after some
real-time discussion.
Well, I certainly qualify as being 30+ (mid-forties, alleged to look
younger, probably because of my profession) which may or may not be too
old. Financially stable? Yeah, I can do that. I just started a new
business with my attorney which should give me a better financial
cushion to allow me to do my many other professional activities. (I'm
an actor and a writer. And for relaxation, I'm a pilot (single engine
airplane.) Am I willing to be taken very good care of? Absolutely!
Am
I willing to take good care of you in return? Just as emphatically,
yes!
Been divorced 14 years. I have someone come in every week to clean my
place so you certainly would not be a maid, and I used to cook better
than my wife. :) And I was a drug counselor before you were even
born! I don't do them at all... even most that may be prescribed by a
doctor.
Working is a good thing. I tend to be a workaholic, but I also work
from my home... which is on the beach. I, too, am continuing my own
education and for you to do so would be an outstanding idea. And
tuition is incredibly reasonable for California residents at some of
the
state colleges. Re working: that's another good idea. And since I am
in legitimate need of a secretary/assistant.... or get any other kind
of job that you'd prefer.
As outlined, I am mid-forties. 5'11", a bit over 200# but I've been
losing weight and will continue to do so (No, I'm not grossly fat,
don't
worry. Think football) Blue eyes and lt brown hair, relatively
un-ugly
I guess, and I am a professional actor and have wriiten my first
screenplay which we are now pitching to producers.
I am sexually eclectic having done many varied things. I can be a kind
and guiding Master who will guide you to fulfill your sexuality in ways
you may have not yet considered. Re sex: you will NOT do anything you
choose to not do. If it gives you pleasure to do things which please
me, that's fine. What I would like to do is mold you to be the very
best, most acomplished person (sexually, and non-sexually) that you can
be in your own right. To be your own person who CHOOSES to serve
another, whether it is me or somebody else.
Does it give you satisfaction to satisfy me sexually? Fine. Does it
give you pleasure for me to show you off, and perhaps offer you to
others? Wonderful. Do you find it exciting to show others how you
serve me? Great. Do you NOT like a particular activity after having
given it due consideration? Perfect. I would expect and require you
to
make such feelings and considerations known
I will hear from you soon. --Bob
..
..
..
.
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| User: "C. Markiewicz" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
05 Apr 2006 09:55:43 AM |
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wrote:
In the end, decency always wins the day.
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/afa/32006b.asp
(AgapePress) - A conservative student club at one Michigan high school has
won a major free-speech victory. After initially resisting the idea, school
administrators recently allowed the group to display its flag alongside the
rainbow colored flag of the school's Diversity Club.
Without commenting upon your interpretation of the event, I applaud the club for
standing it's ground and keeping it;s beliefs.
We will find peace when we recognize all viewpoints and all citizens have the
same rights.......
--
Connie Markiewicz
Cumann Na mBan
"I'm Minister for Gun-Running, Daylight Robbery, and General Mayhem."
Michael Collins, Finance Minister, Irish Republic 1918
.
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| User: "The Watch Dog" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
05 Apr 2006 03:14:54 PM |
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C. Markiewicz wrote:
We will find peace when we recognize all viewpoints and all citizens have the
same rights.......
I wonder if the Traditional Values Student Group will back you on that
one.
.
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| User: "Parsifal" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
05 Apr 2006 12:41:03 AM |
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Funny that your "sense of decency" only applies for conservative
groups... never for discriminated-after individuals or groups...
Besides, if you really understood the word "decency", you'd stop
posting your usual racist and intolerant crap... better, you'd commit
suicide...
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
05 Apr 2006 01:58:43 AM |
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On 4 Apr 2006 22:41:03 -0700, "Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <1144215663.876705.73710@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Funny that your "sense of decency" only applies for conservative
groups... never for discriminated-after individuals or groups...
Besides, if you really understood the word "decency", you'd stop
posting your usual racist and intolerant crap... better, you'd commit
suicide...
Young would shoot himself in the head, yet miss his brain by 3 feet.
--
.
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| User: "The Pervert" |
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| Title: Re: High School Traditional Values Club Wins Equal Rights Victory |
05 Apr 2006 03:55:13 AM |
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"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:ujq6321vik8m12v7koc2k8cjqauf8fihkc@4ax.com...
Young would shoot himself in the head, yet miss his brain by 3 feet.
But by all means, give him a chance to try... and maybe try again and again.
.
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