| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Tripping in Tempur Fields" |
| Date: |
09 Jul 2004 03:51:07 AM |
| Object: |
I am an ungrateful pro-lifer! |
My name is Robert Caponi. I am a white male ages 18-49.
I have never discriminated against a woman. I have never battered a
woman. I have never used boorish sexual innuendo around a woman or
accosted her with unsolicited descriptions of my genitals. I have only
ever once described a woman as a "piece of *****"-- I was referring to Avril
Lavigne, and it was safely in the context of a joke.
But all that counts naught to my favor; I am a sexist beyond sexists,
and I have the temerity not to care.
I am a pro-lifer.
I am an ungrateful pro-lifer.
t.a pro-choicers' displeasure with the ingratitude of people like me is
made clear enough by the cat-snarl sibilance of their scorn-- "I protect
your freedomssss, even if they're the very freedomssss wou sssseek to
dessssstroy" (that is, impossssse my will on women and forccccce them to
do as I wisssssh.) It was only when I read phrases like these aloud that I
realized the depth of their searing disapproval. I also hear something of
the same disapproval in the stock questions to people like me surfacing
again and again, with only minor variation, from the same pool of
anonymous pro-choice tropes. Again, indictments of ingratitude, either
towards the noble cause or towards my mother ( ...oh gosh, my own *mother*
for heaven's sakes!)
"Why do you want to deny women the very freedoms *you*
enjoy?" Why yes, I just fatally disconnected a famous
violinist from my life systems last April... OF 2057! Yes,
the reason I hold an event that's flukish even in a
suppositional America and something that's happened in the
real America 4000 times today to a double standard is because
I'm *selfish*! I'll tell this violinist, I'll tell him-- "Do
you know how to play 'Taps' on that thing, Yo-Yo Ma? I am an
ungrateful pro-lifer!"
"If you as a fetus knew you were unwanted, wouldn't you abort
yourself?" The correct answer here is "yes,"- unless you're a
rapist- but I say-- "Let the ***** who's aborting me at least
have to fork over four hundred bananas just like everybody
else! I am an ungrateful pro-lifer! Grrr!"
"Your mother chose not to abort you... why wouldn't you want
*every* woman to have the same choice your mother had?"
Besides the fact my mother probably didn't see abortion as
being much of a choice, this moral defense of everything my
mother either chose or never chose to do has a kind of
stun-gun effect on me, which may be the effect intended. But
I will spring back and make it equally personal for the
pro-choicer-- "*Your* mother sucked my *****... why wouldn't
you want *every* woman to suck the ***** of the same guy whose
***** your mother sucked? I am an ungrateful pro-lifer!"
Ask me a question in good faith- a question I could answer to your
satisfaction without having to abandon the premise that abortion is
murder- and I will not give you such splenetic responses. But there is
nothing I can tell you that would interest you; there is no person whose
motivations and beliefs are understood as many times over as the
pro-lifer. I should be grateful to be so understood that even to be asked
a question in good faith would be a waste of time.
A person can call themselves pro-choice and be lauded as being both
caring and compassionate (nevermind that those terms technically share the
same polar relationship introvert and extrovert.) The situations of all
the individual women having abortions are as unknowable to them as they
are to me, only in my case, telling a woman what she can't do with her
body is an enormous presumption, but in your case is cause for great
praise that, despite the fact all that is required of you is *suspension*
of judgement, and despite the complete absence of any conflicted moral
interest you may have of fetal personhood, you can find it in yourself to
issue to these same women your one-size-fits-all compassion. (Oooh, but
only I get to look through my pro-life spy glass to see that these women
are all being controlled/punished/humiliated to my satisfaction!) They
should all be grateful!
They tell me we espouse hatred, that we are intolerant. I honestly
don't know why they say this. The premise of "they have the same rights we
have" seems in opposition to hatred or intolerance, but maybe the hatred
and intolerance is that I think pregnant women *don't* have the rights I
have-- a dubious claim, since I can't think of any situation in which I
get to simply "choose" who lives and who dies, and in any case is not
supported by any disproportion of women being pro-choice. I think the
accusation of hatred is simply an article of faith, as a grounds of
dismissal out-of-hand. As the saying goes, "tolerate everything except
intolerance." Maybe the newfangled liberal way of dealing with ideas we
don't like is to just call them hateful or intolerant- whether justified
or not- and simply dismiss them as if they were.
"We are open minded," they boast. press them a little harder, and it
becomes "We are open minded... to the findings of science!" But these are
the same people who tell me that whatever the fetus might or might not
scientifically be is a moot point in the issue of abortion. You can quash
the issue in as much time it takes to type "Woman? what woman!?!" These
are the same people who battle unborn victims of violence and unborn
health care legislation because they set a precedent of fetal personhood.
Pray tell, what kind of open mindedness would this be? Why do people fly
into outrage when you tell them you're pro-life? I could tell them I was a
Nazi and they would be less outraged. Why have two people in the editorial
offices of the Village Voice started giving Nat Hentoff the silent
treatment as soon as he outed himself as a pro-lifer? Are they afraid his
closed mindedness might rub off on them?
A sixth of Planned Parenthood's funding is taken straight from the
pockets of pro-lifers so it can infiltrate their children's schools,mock
their religion, censor them and- on one occasion- bar them from their own
public libraries. Why aren't we more grateful to these people protecting
our freedoms? Millions of pro-lifers are forced to pay union dues that go
to support politicians who, if elected, will then try to force them to
bankroll a proceedure they find morally abhorrent. Why aren't these people
more grateful to the champions of choice? Because we're ungrateful
pro-lifers!
I won't protest too much the term "fetus fetishist"-- it is an epitet
that suggests the same characteristic of misplaced affection as
"tree-hugger" or "*****-lover," and as such is not unique. No, what
bothers me is when pro-choicers, and I hear it again and again, describe
pro-lifers "squealing with orgiastic glee" thinking about the way women's
lives are crushed by the economic burden forced on them. This squealing
and frothing doesn't really happen, of course, and is unestablishable even
as hyperbole, but it's allowable because we're only talking about
pro-lifers, and these tactics have long since been sanctioned by
pro-choice top brass. I've read that we tend to eroticize our fears; my
red flags go up- it could be niggers with ping-pong ball eyes chasing
white women around the mountain or Jews defiling pure Aryan girls- when
the task of eroticizing the fears of the "us" is transferred to the
"them". (And, quite honestly, if economic hardship got me aroused I would
be walking around with permanant wood.)
But I am a pro-lifer. I am the socially sanctioned ***** for American
liberals; I get to see them from their most illiberal angle. Would they be
hurling these epitets at me- epitets allowable in no other discourse- if
nothing other than a woman's freedom were truly at issue, if I wasn't onto
something that made them uncomfortable, haranging on that intimitation of
doubt? No, the issue is as uncomplicated as a woman's right to get a ear
pierced. All the epitets are in good fun. Be grateful you live in a
society where you aren't strung up by your toes for disagreeing with us!
Whenever people discuss a tragedy, a sensless killing, they invariably
scratch their heads and ask "how could sane people do such things?" But I
don't ask that question. I've seen how it happens for myself. I've seen
the miminum of social sanction required to get people extremely cavalier
about killing. To start, make it the duty of the good citizen *not* to
care- most will gladly cede concern, as they are morally overtaxed as it
is- and reward them with flatteries of caring and compassion and
enlightenment when they do. Start a code language, introduced as soon as
"choice" is set in binary opposition to "control"-- the privelaged nature
of a woman's right to abortion evidenced by this exclusive, hermetic
oppositional bubble. Wall off your enemy with an impenetrable foam of
psitticistic blather; one need only look at this newsgroup to see
pro-choicers writing the same things over and over for apparently nobody;
look at Ray Fischer or Paul Anderson- perhaps some awareness of their
purgatorial stations informs their coarse, tone-deaf writing styles- or
*sex kitten* or Flower Power- both of whom, nom de guerres aside, make
Rain Man look like Mick Jagger- and all of whom draw their arguments,
zingers, and bad-faith emotional appeals from the same stagnant pool, "who
think the same thoughts without need of speech and babble the same speech
without need of meaning." But good old T.S. himself needed the Jew for his
own savedness to be meaningful; make the issue adversarial, set your
followers off on a scavenger hunt to find new epitets and trivializations
of the unbeliever so that when these followers say something like "I
support a woman's right to choose!" it might actually *mean* something.
Encourage them to say things like "...you really just want to control
womens bodies." Unsupportable- indeed, meaningless- statements like this
have longevity built into them; people need only say them once and they've
committed themselves to it forever. The unbelievers here aren't the ones
that end up getting killed, but their role in group identification is
nonetheless essential. Fall back on status quo with a syllogistic wave of
the hand,-- "abortion isn't murder, murder is illegal" or circular
reasoning like "we have a right to abortion because the Supreme Court says
we have a right to abortion." You can pay no mind to the shockingly
irresponsible morality buttressing such statements; it flummoxes the
unbelievers, so it is useful for as long as it works in your favor.
But it might stop working in your favor... in fact, it probably will.
And don't think- conceit of conceits!- they're going to ring your doorbell
and consult you with every subsequent decision concerning which killing is
acceptable and which isn't. When there is a war, people protest war. When
there is a state execution, people protest capital punishment. Maybe I
disagree with these people's methods sometimes, maybe I think they
sometimes lack perspective, maybe sometimes I think the same things of
fellow pro-lifers. But doggedly battling the premises that allow us to
simply eliminate the elements of society we find inconveniencing- and
refusing to be bullied out of our determination in such tasks- is an
essential part of the health of a society that protects the lives and
freedoms of everyone. Perhaps you too are a little ungrateful.
=''' TWIDN € http://home.earthlink.net/~tagutcow
c oo email €
| \
- Investigative ~ Navigable ~ Vestigial ~ Fiduciary
.
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| User: "Whosetitanelbow" |
|
| Title: Re: I am an ungrateful pro-lifer! |
09 Jul 2004 02:33:13 PM |
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(Tripping in Tempur Fields) schreef in
berichtnieuws...news:tagutcow-0907040442430001@user-
0c992qm.cable.mindspring.com:
I won't protest too much the term "fetus fetishist"...
How about "fool for big government"? You think that the legal status of
something says anything about its moral status? You really think the
political is supreme over all other words ending in "al"--like the factual
or the moral? Good luck explaining that one to diety$.
--
``The nuclear bomb, does that bother you?...I just want you to think big,
Henry, for Christsakes.'' -- R.M. Nixon
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| User: "The Only Issue" |
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| Title: Re: I am an ungrateful pro-lifer! |
09 Jul 2004 05:42:15 AM |
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(Tripping in Tempur Fields) wrote:
My name is Robert Caponi. I am a white male ages 18-49.
I have never discriminated against a woman. I have never
battered a
woman. I have never used boorish sexual innuendo around a woman
or accosted her with unsolicited descriptions of my genitals. I
have only ever once described a woman as a "piece of *****"-- I
was referring to Avril Lavigne, and it was safely in the context
of a joke.
But all that counts naught to my favor; I am a sexist beyond
sexists,
and I have the temerity not to care.
I am a pro-lifer.
I am an ungrateful pro-lifer.
t.a pro-choicers' displeasure with the ingratitude of people
like me is
made clear enough by the cat-snarl sibilance of their scorn-- "I
protect your freedomssss, even if they're the very freedomssss
wou sssseek to dessssstroy" (that is, impossssse my will on
women and forccccce them to do as I wisssssh.) It was only when
I read phrases like these aloud that I realized the depth of
their searing disapproval. I also hear something of the same
disapproval in the stock questions to people like me surfacing
again and again, with only minor variation, from the same pool
of anonymous pro-choice tropes. Again, indictments of
ingratitude, either towards the noble cause or towards my mother
( ...oh gosh, my own *mother* for heaven's sakes!)
"Why do you want to deny women the very freedoms
*you*
enjoy?" Why yes, I just fatally disconnected a famous
violinist from my life systems last April... OF 2057!
Yes, the reason I hold an event that's flukish even in a
suppositional America and something that's happened in
the real America 4000 times today to a double standard
is because I'm *selfish*! I'll tell this violinist, I'll
tell him-- "Do you know how to play 'Taps' on that
thing, Yo-Yo Ma? I am an ungrateful pro-lifer!"
"If you as a fetus knew you were unwanted, wouldn't
you abort
yourself?" The correct answer here is "yes,"- unless
you're a rapist- but I say-- "Let the ***** who's
aborting me at least have to fork over four hundred
bananas just like everybody else! I am an ungrateful
pro-lifer! Grrr!"
"Your mother chose not to abort you... why wouldn't
you want
*every* woman to have the same choice your mother had?"
Besides the fact my mother probably didn't see abortion
as being much of a choice, this moral defense of
everything my mother either chose or never chose to do
has a kind of stun-gun effect on me, which may be the
effect intended. But I will spring back and make it
equally personal for the pro-choicer-- "*Your* mother
sucked my *****... why wouldn't you want *every* woman to
suck the ***** of the same guy whose ***** your mother
sucked? I am an ungrateful pro-lifer!"
Ask me a question in good faith- a question I could answer to
your
satisfaction without having to abandon the premise that abortion
is murder- and I will not give you such splenetic responses. But
there is nothing I can tell you that would interest you; there
is no person whose motivations and beliefs are understood as
many times over as the pro-lifer. I should be grateful to be so
understood that even to be asked a question in good faith would
be a waste of time.
A person can call themselves pro-choice and be lauded as
being both
caring and compassionate (nevermind that those terms technically
share the same polar relationship introvert and extrovert.) The
situations of all the individual women having abortions are as
unknowable to them as they are to me, only in my case, telling a
woman what she can't do with her body is an enormous
presumption, but in your case is cause for great praise that,
despite the fact all that is required of you is *suspension* of
judgement, and despite the complete absence of any conflicted
moral interest you may have of fetal personhood, you can find it
in yourself to issue to these same women your one-size-fits-all
compassion. (Oooh, but only I get to look through my pro-life
spy glass to see that these women are all being
controlled/punished/humiliated to my satisfaction!) They should
all be grateful!
They tell me we espouse hatred, that we are intolerant. I
honestly
don't know why they say this. The premise of "they have the same
rights we have" seems in opposition to hatred or intolerance,
but maybe the hatred and intolerance is that I think pregnant
women *don't* have the rights I have-- a dubious claim, since I
can't think of any situation in which I get to simply "choose"
who lives and who dies, and in any case is not supported by any
disproportion of women being pro-choice. I think the accusation
of hatred is simply an article of faith, as a grounds of
dismissal out-of-hand. As the saying goes, "tolerate everything
except intolerance." Maybe the newfangled liberal way of dealing
with ideas we don't like is to just call them hateful or
intolerant- whether justified or not- and simply dismiss them as
if they were.
"We are open minded," they boast. press them a little harder,
and it
becomes "We are open minded... to the findings of science!" But
these are the same people who tell me that whatever the fetus
might or might not scientifically be is a moot point in the
issue of abortion. You can quash the issue in as much time it
takes to type "Woman? what woman!?!" These are the same people
who battle unborn victims of violence and unborn health care
legislation because they set a precedent of fetal personhood.
Pray tell, what kind of open mindedness would this be? Why do
people fly into outrage when you tell them you're pro-life? I
could tell them I was a Nazi and they would be less outraged.
Why have two people in the editorial offices of the Village
Voice started giving Nat Hentoff the silent treatment as soon as
he outed himself as a pro-lifer? Are they afraid his closed
mindedness might rub off on them?
A sixth of Planned Parenthood's funding is taken straight
from the
pockets of pro-lifers so it can infiltrate their children's
schools,mock their religion, censor them and- on one occasion-
bar them from their own public libraries. Why aren't we more
grateful to these people protecting our freedoms? Millions of
pro-lifers are forced to pay union dues that go to support
politicians who, if elected, will then try to force them to
bankroll a proceedure they find morally abhorrent. Why aren't
these people more grateful to the champions of choice? Because
we're ungrateful pro-lifers!
I won't protest too much the term "fetus fetishist"-- it is
an epitet
that suggests the same characteristic of misplaced affection as
"tree-hugger" or "*****-lover," and as such is not unique. No,
what bothers me is when pro-choicers, and I hear it again and
again, describe pro-lifers "squealing with orgiastic glee"
thinking about the way women's lives are crushed by the economic
burden forced on them. This squealing and frothing doesn't
really happen, of course, and is unestablishable even as
hyperbole, but it's allowable because we're only talking about
pro-lifers, and these tactics have long since been sanctioned by
pro-choice top brass. I've read that we tend to eroticize our
fears; my red flags go up- it could be niggers with ping-pong
ball eyes chasing white women around the mountain or Jews
defiling pure Aryan girls- when the task of eroticizing the
fears of the "us" is transferred to the "them". (And, quite
honestly, if economic hardship got me aroused I would be walking
around with permanant wood.)
But I am a pro-lifer. I am the socially sanctioned ***** for
American
liberals; I get to see them from their most illiberal angle.
Would they be hurling these epitets at me- epitets allowable in
no other discourse- if nothing other than a woman's freedom were
truly at issue, if I wasn't onto something that made them
uncomfortable, haranging on that intimitation of doubt? No, the
issue is as uncomplicated as a woman's right to get a ear
pierced. All the epitets are in good fun. Be grateful you live
in a society where you aren't strung up by your toes for
disagreeing with us!
Whenever people discuss a tragedy, a sensless killing, they
invariably
scratch their heads and ask "how could sane people do such
things?" But I don't ask that question. I've seen how it happens
for myself. I've seen the miminum of social sanction required to
get people extremely cavalier about killing. To start, make it
the duty of the good citizen *not* to care- most will gladly
cede concern, as they are morally overtaxed as it is- and reward
them with flatteries of caring and compassion and enlightenment
when they do. Start a code language, introduced as soon as
"choice" is set in binary opposition to "control"-- the
privelaged nature of a woman's right to abortion evidenced by
this exclusive, hermetic oppositional bubble. Wall off your
enemy with an impenetrable foam of psitticistic blather; one
need only look at this newsgroup to see pro-choicers writing the
same things over and over for apparently nobody; look at Ray
Fischer or Paul Anderson- perhaps some awareness of their
purgatorial stations informs their coarse, tone-deaf writing
styles- or *sex kitten* or Flower Power- both of whom, nom de
guerres aside, make Rain Man look like Mick Jagger- and all of
whom draw their arguments, zingers, and bad-faith emotional
appeals from the same stagnant pool, "who think the same
thoughts without need of speech and babble the same speech
without need of meaning." But good old T.S. himself needed the
Jew for his own savedness to be meaningful; make the issue
adversarial, set your followers off on a scavenger hunt to find
new epitets and trivializations of the unbeliever so that when
these followers say something like "I support a woman's right to
choose!" it might actually *mean* something. Encourage them to
say things like "...you really just want to control womens
bodies." Unsupportable- indeed, meaningless- statements like
this have longevity built into them; people need only say them
once and they've committed themselves to it forever. The
unbelievers here aren't the ones that end up getting killed, but
their role in group identification is nonetheless essential.
Fall back on status quo with a syllogistic wave of the hand,--
"abortion isn't murder, murder is illegal" or circular reasoning
like "we have a right to abortion because the Supreme Court says
we have a right to abortion." You can pay no mind to the
shockingly irresponsible morality buttressing such statements;
it flummoxes the unbelievers, so it is useful for as long as it
works in your favor.
But it might stop working in your favor... in fact, it
probably will.
And don't think- conceit of conceits!- they're going to ring
your doorbell and consult you with every subsequent decision
concerning which killing is acceptable and which isn't. When
there is a war, people protest war. When there is a state
execution, people protest capital punishment. Maybe I disagree
with these people's methods sometimes, maybe I think they
sometimes lack perspective, maybe sometimes I think the same
things of fellow pro-lifers. But doggedly battling the premises
that allow us to simply eliminate the elements of society we
find inconveniencing- and refusing to be bullied out of our
determination in such tasks- is an essential part of the health
of a society that protects the lives and freedoms of everyone.
Perhaps you too are a little ungrateful.
=''' TWIDN € http://home.earthlink.net/~tagutcow
c oo email €
| \
- Investigative ~ Navigable ~ Vestigial ~
Fiduciary
Well said, and likely to be under-appreciated.
--
The Only Issue
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| User: "David F. Dembinski" |
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| Title: Re: I am an ungrateful pro-lifer! |
09 Jul 2004 06:56:25 AM |
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On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:51:07 +0000, Tripping in Tempur Fields wrote:
My name is Robert Caponi. I am a white male ages 18-49.
I have never discriminated against a woman. I have never battered a
woman. I have never used boorish sexual innuendo around a woman or
accosted her with unsolicited descriptions of my genitals. I have only
ever once described a woman as a "piece of *****"-- I was referring to Avril
Lavigne, and it was safely in the context of a joke.
But all that counts naught to my favor; I am a sexist beyond sexists,
and I have the temerity not to care.
I am a pro-lifer.
I am an ungrateful pro-lifer.
<SNIIIIIIP>
=''' TWIDN € http://home.earthlink.net/~tagutcow
c oo email €
| \
- Investigative ~ Navigable ~ Vestigial ~ Fiduciary
Why was this cross-posted to ARK? Is someone trying to abort Kibo?
--
Dave Dembinski
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| User: "HarCo Industries" |
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| Title: Re: I am an ungrateful pro-lifer! |
09 Jul 2004 02:47:44 PM |
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"David F. Dembinski" <dave@davedembinski.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.07.09.11.56.22.685689@davedembinski.com>...
Why was this cross-posted to ARK? Is someone trying to abort Kibo?
Only every day. But the fucker JUST WON'T DIE.
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| User: "David DeLaney" |
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| Title: Re: I am an ungrateful pro-lifer! |
10 Jul 2004 02:50:49 AM |
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David F. Dembinski <dave@davedembinski.com> wrote:
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:51:07 +0000, Tripping in Tempur Fields wrote:
My name is Robert Caponi. I am a white male ages 18-49.
He is also 5'4"-6'6" tall, I hear.
Why was this cross-posted to ARK? Is someone trying to abort Kibo?
No no. He's a regular here, though a very SELDOM regular, and simply wanted
To Share.
Dave "he's Allowed" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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| User: "Jacob W. Haller" |
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| Title: Re: I am an ungrateful pro-lifer! |
10 Jul 2004 10:39:59 AM |
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David DeLaney <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
David F. Dembinski <dave@davedembinski.com> wrote:
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:51:07 +0000, Tripping in Tempur Fields wrote:
My name is Robert Caponi. I am a white male ages 18-49.
He is also 5'4"-6'6" tall, I hear.
Inclusive.
-jwgh
--
"anyone who thinks he can challenge an experimentally
proved axiomatic physicis theory with 'dictionary definitions'
is an oxymoron."
-- George Hammond on alt.religion.kibology 11 May 2004
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| User: "Paul Anderson" |
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| Title: Re: I am an ungrateful pro-lifer! |
09 Jul 2004 03:55:04 PM |
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On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:51:07 GMT, (Tripping in
Tempur Fields) wrote:
My name is Robert Caponi. I am a white male ages 18-49.
I have never discriminated against a woman. I have never battered a
woman. I have never used boorish sexual innuendo around a woman or
accosted her with unsolicited descriptions of my genitals. I have only
ever once described a woman as a "piece of *****"-- I was referring to Avril
Lavigne, and it was safely in the context of a joke.
But all that counts naught to my favor; I am a sexist beyond sexists,
and I have the temerity not to care.
I am a pro-lifer.
If a woman decides that an abortion is the best course for herself,
would you assist her in obtaining one? We will assume that either she
does not believe that an unborn child is yet a human being or she
believes that this killing of a human being is justified in her case.
Do you treat her as an adult human being able to hold her own
viewpoint and make her own decisions? Or do you treat her as
something less?
....
Ask me a question in good faith- ....
Sure. Why do you lie about our beliefs?
.....
They tell me we espouse hatred, that we are intolerant. I honestly
don't know why they say this. The premise of "they have the same rights we
have" seems in opposition to hatred or intolerance, but maybe the hatred
and intolerance is that I think pregnant women *don't* have the rights I
have-- a dubious claim, since I can't think of any situation in which I
get to simply "choose" who lives and who dies....
Right here. You lie about the rigths we have that you would deny a
pregnant woman -- the rights of bodily autonomy and self-defense. It
is not a question of choosing who gets to live or die. It is a
question of whether or not a person has a right to stop a great bodily
harm. It does not matter whether what is inflicting the harm is a
thing or a person, whether the harm is intentional or blind -- as a
human being I have a right to stop harm to myself using the minimum
force required to abate that harm.
I cannot think of any situation where I am not allowed to use deadly
force to defend myself from physical harm. Yet you would deny this
right to a pregnant woman. Why? Please use facts and not just your
beliefs and feelings.
....
Some more lies:
Whenever people discuss a tragedy, a sensless killing, they invariably
scratch their heads and ask "how could sane people do such things?" But I
don't ask that question. I've seen how it happens for myself. I've seen
the miminum of social sanction required to get people extremely cavalier
about killing.
Pro-Choice people are not cavalier about killing. We do not see the
killing of a fetus as the killing of a human being. We see that
killing to protect oneself is morally acceptable if no lesser force
will suffice.
.....
look at Ray Fischer or Paul Anderson- perhaps some awareness of their
purgatorial stations informs their coarse, tone-deaf writing styles...
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
.....
You post your lies and insults. Yet no one has ever granted me an
answer to my question: On what moral grounds may I ban abortion?
(note: lies are not moral, nor is ignoring the human rights of the
woman involved.)
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: I am an ungrateful pro-lifer! |
10 Jul 2004 12:17:27 AM |
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Tripping in Tempur Fields <tagutcow@earthlink.net> wrote:
Ask me a question in good faith- a question I could answer to your
satisfaction without having to abandon the premise that abortion is
murder- and I will not give you such splenetic responses.
Okay.
If a woman is a murderer for refusing to suffer the pain, injury, expense,
and risk of childbirth, teh why aren't you a murderer for refusing to
give up your moeny and freedom in order to save some of the 10,000
people who die of hunger every day?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "David DeLaney" |
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| Title: Re: I am an ungrateful pro-lifer! |
10 Jul 2004 02:51:42 AM |
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Ray Fischer <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote:
Tripping in Tempur Fields <tagutcow@earthlink.net> wrote:
Ask me a question in good faith- a question I could answer to your
satisfaction without having to abandon the premise that abortion is
murder- and I will not give you such splenetic responses.
Okay.
If a woman is a murderer for refusing to suffer the pain, injury, expense,
and risk of childbirth, teh why aren't you a murderer for refusing to
give up your moeny and freedom in order to save some of the 10,000,000,000,000
sperm who die of hunger every day?
IFYPFY. YW.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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