Science > Abortion > I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
| Date: |
01 Feb 2005 01:59:33 PM |
| Object: |
I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers
By Lindsay Schubiner
Columbia Daily Spectator
Monday, January 31, 2005
Documentary Includes Testimonials From Barnard Alumna,
Others Who Had Abortions; Includes Only Positive
Experiences
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to have an
abortion?
The new documentary Speak Out: I Had an Abortion,
screened by Barnard and Columbia Students for Choice on
Friday night to a packed lecture hall, was determined to
address the "silence" that many say continues to surround
actual abortion experiences.
The film features testimonies from women of all ages and
backgrounds who have had abortions, and it comes at a
time when many question the future of abortion rights.
Pro-choice advocates suggest that President George W.
Bush's Supreme Court appointees may facilitate the
reversal of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision
that legalized abortion.
The title of the documentary springs from a recent pro-
choice movement that publicizes the abortion experience
to make the procedure more accepted, in addition to
stressing the right to choose. Most visibly, Planned
Parenthood sells t-shirts that read simply, "I had an
abortion."
Jennifer Baumgardner, the film's producer, now also sells
the t-shirts.
Among other womern, I Had an Abortion features Barnard
graduate and former Students for Choice member A'yen
Tran, BC '04, who spoke about her two abortions. At the
time, she said, she lived in the Barnard quad, did not
have a job, and could not take care of a baby.
Of all the women interviewed, Tran was both the youngest
and seemingly most-unconflicted about her choice. Even
with a fully supportive mother, however, she said she was
initially reluctant to be open about her abortion. It is
this feeling of imposed secrecy that Tran and the
filmmakers say they hope to combat with the documentary.
Baumgardner wrote the successful feminist text Manifesta
and currently writes for publications such as Harper's,
The Nation, and Glamour. Director of the film Gillian
Aldrich is known for her extensive work with Michael
Moore and for her production of the daily news show
"Democracy Now."
The women agreed to participate in a panel discussion
after the showing. Aldrich, however, could not attend, so
Tran and Baumgardner took the stage.
I Had an Abortion showed only positive abortion stories.
Baumgardner said that the main goal of the film was just
to show "women telling their stories."
The event's press release also stressed the importance of
this, stating, "The women that have procedures aren't
nameless, faceless, irresponsible types who don't
‘deserve' this right, but our mothers, our grandmas, our
sisters, and ourselves."
Baumgardner and Tran fielded questions from the audience,
which ranged from inquiries about current policy
decisions, personal experiences, and decisions about the
film's scope to a request that Baumgardner distribute the
film in Poland and in other European countries.
One girl in the audience admitted that she had an
abortion, perhaps indicating the effectiveness of the
film's message.
Tran stressed that both Barnard and Columbia Health
Services offer abortions at no cost in private facilities
and do not release information to students' parents.
After the documentary, Caledonia Curry, an artist from
Brooklyn who came at her friend's request, said the
documentary "was one of those where I kind of wanted to
cry a lot."
"Even though you're so pro-choice, it's just something
that's never going to happen to you," Curry said.
Averill Leslie, CC '05, who joined Students for Choice
this year, said "there [must be] so many more people
walking around in my life who've had abortions."
Alice LaBrie, a neighborhood resident in her 60s, was
surprised, however, that women would want to share what
she believes is private medical information. "I believe
that women should be very discreet about themselves to
keep a mystique," she said.
http://www.columbiaspectator.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/31/41fde0be104b6
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Michael Moore's friends at work. I notice their idea of
"dialogue" on this issue includes only "positive
experiences" with abortion. These people are a sick joke.
But they are very, very influential.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:29:48 AM PST by madprof98
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-To: madprof98
Homeless: Will Work for Food
Pro-Choice: Will Kill for Sex
Psted on 01/31/2005 8:33:13 AM PST by Fenris6
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster.
FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
.
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
|
| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
01 Feb 2005 02:02:14 PM |
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Forwarded messages
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-To: madprof98
This disgusts me far more than pro-lifers showing
pictures of aborted babies (I refuse to use the euphemism
"fetus" in this instance) ever could.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:34:17 AM PST by floydibanezer
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-To: madprof98
POSITIVE ABORTION stories. These people are the sickest
of the sick. Celebrating the death of unborn children.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:34:26 AM PST by marty60
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-To: madprof98
They're preaching to the choir in this instance, this is
a classic puff-piece.
Very sad to read none the less.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:35:24 AM PST by wrathof59
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End of forwarded messages
I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers
By Lindsay Schubiner
Columbia Daily Spectator
Monday, January 31, 2005
Documentary Includes Testimonials From Barnard Alumna,
Others Who Had Abortions; Includes Only Positive
Experiences
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to have an
abortion?
The new documentary Speak Out: I Had an Abortion,
screened by Barnard and Columbia Students for Choice on
Friday night to a packed lecture hall, was determined to
address the "silence" that many say continues to surround
actual abortion experiences.
The film features testimonies from women of all ages and
backgrounds who have had abortions, and it comes at a
time when many question the future of abortion rights.
Pro-choice advocates suggest that President George W.
Bush's Supreme Court appointees may facilitate the
reversal of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision
that legalized abortion.
The title of the documentary springs from a recent pro-
choice movement that publicizes the abortion experience
to make the procedure more accepted, in addition to
stressing the right to choose. Most visibly, Planned
Parenthood sells t-shirts that read simply, "I had an
abortion."
Jennifer Baumgardner, the film's producer, now also sells
the t-shirts.
Among other womern, I Had an Abortion features Barnard
graduate and former Students for Choice member A'yen
Tran, BC '04, who spoke about her two abortions. At the
time, she said, she lived in the Barnard quad, did not
have a job, and could not take care of a baby.
Of all the women interviewed, Tran was both the youngest
and seemingly most-unconflicted about her choice. Even
with a fully supportive mother, however, she said she was
initially reluctant to be open about her abortion. It is
this feeling of imposed secrecy that Tran and the
filmmakers say they hope to combat with the documentary.
Baumgardner wrote the successful feminist text Manifesta
and currently writes for publications such as Harper's,
The Nation, and Glamour. Director of the film Gillian
Aldrich is known for her extensive work with Michael
Moore and for her production of the daily news show
"Democracy Now."
The women agreed to participate in a panel discussion
after the showing. Aldrich, however, could not attend, so
Tran and Baumgardner took the stage.
I Had an Abortion showed only positive abortion stories.
Baumgardner said that the main goal of the film was just
to show "women telling their stories."
The event's press release also stressed the importance of
this, stating, "The women that have procedures aren't
nameless, faceless, irresponsible types who don't
‘deserve' this right, but our mothers, our grandmas, our
sisters, and ourselves."
Baumgardner and Tran fielded questions from the audience,
which ranged from inquiries about current policy
decisions, personal experiences, and decisions about the
film's scope to a request that Baumgardner distribute the
film in Poland and in other European countries.
One girl in the audience admitted that she had an
abortion, perhaps indicating the effectiveness of the
film's message.
Tran stressed that both Barnard and Columbia Health
Services offer abortions at no cost in private facilities
and do not release information to students' parents.
After the documentary, Caledonia Curry, an artist from
Brooklyn who came at her friend's request, said the
documentary "was one of those where I kind of wanted to
cry a lot."
"Even though you're so pro-choice, it's just something
that's never going to happen to you," Curry said.
Averill Leslie, CC '05, who joined Students for Choice
this year, said "there [must be] so many more people
walking around in my life who've had abortions."
Alice LaBrie, a neighborhood resident in her 60s, was
surprised, however, that women would want to share what
she believes is private medical information. "I believe
that women should be very discreet about themselves to
keep a mystique," she said.
http://www.columbiaspectator.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/31/41fde0be104b6
- - - - - - -
Michael Moore's friends at work. I notice their idea of
"dialogue" on this issue includes only "positive
experiences" with abortion. These people are a sick joke.
But they are very, very influential.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:29:48 AM PST by madprof98
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: madprof98
Homeless: Will Work for Food
Pro-Choice: Will Kill for Sex
Psted on 01/31/2005 8:33:13 AM PST by Fenris6
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster.
FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
.
|
|
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
|
| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
01 Feb 2005 02:06:40 PM |
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Forwarded messages
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-To: madprof98
Their influence is negative rather than positive.
Those T shirts with the words, I HAD AN ABORTION were met
with revulsion and denounced by the choicers too.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:35:44 AM PST by OldFriend
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-To: Fenris6
"Pro-Choice: Will Kill for Sex"
Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark!
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:37:14 AM PST by Gingersnap
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-To: Fenris6
"Pro-Choice: Will Kill for Sex"
Sometimes the obvious isn't obvious enough. But typing
helps.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:39:17 AM PST by gobucks
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-To: madprof98
If they would show footage of what is looks like to see a
baby born alive after a saline abortion, and watch the
infant burn in its own tissues, then maybe they could
debate what abortion really is.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:39:26 AM PST by SkyPilot
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-To: SkyPilot
No, they've find an excuse to look away. Commitment &
Consistency.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:44:24 AM PST by Fenris6
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-To: madprof98
I always love that cartoon that asks God where are the
people that would cure cancer, AIDS, and heart disease.
God then answers back, "I did, you aborted them." There
is nothing positive about abortion. End of story.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:46:44 AM PST by ConservativeTerrapin
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End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
.
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
01 Feb 2005 02:13:46 PM |
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Forwarded messages
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-To: madprof98
Who is playing the baby's part in the "dialogue"?
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:48:10 AM PST by leprechaun9
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-To: madprof98
"POO PROTESTERS", Now that's a nickname that could stink....err
stick
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:51:53 AM PST by traderrob6
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-To: madprof98 . . .
They should have asked these women:
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:52:33 AM PST by Pyro7480
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-To: leprechaun9
I believe those who have been aborted will have a voice
in the afterlife.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:54:23 AM PST by xp38
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-To: madprof98
Silent No More
http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org
is a group of post-abortive women who provide the other
side of the story.
I Regret My Abortion
http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/testimonies/iregretmyabortion.htm
My abortion happened 16 years ago. I was dating a guy
that I loved very much. We were in an on again, off again
relationship for 4 years. Just before my abortion, we had
a fight and broke up -- for good. A couple weeks later, I
found out that I was pregnant. When I told him that I was
pregnant, he said that he wanted me to have an abortion
because he didn't think I would be a good mother. Also,
he said I was a big baby and challenged me to finally be
a woman. I really never thought he would want me to go
through with it. I found out that he was dealing drugs
and I wanted him out of my life, so I chose to follow
through with his plan. He paid for my abortion with his
drug money.
The night before my abortion, I couldn't sleep. I was
lying alone in bed with my own thoughts, and I knew what
I was about to do was very wrong. Two years earlier, I
had gone through the same situation, but decided to carry
that pregnancy to term. Abortion was never even a
consideration to me. But now that I had a 2 year old son,
I didn't want others to think I made the same
mistake...again. The only people who knew I was pregnant
were my mom and sister.
When I woke up that morning, I called my sister and told
her that I thought I was "miscarrying". I told her I was
bleeding and wanted to know if she would watch my son.
After I dropped him off, I went to the abortion clinic. I
noticed the picketers, and I wanted to make sure none of
them knew me. I drove around the block. None of them
looked familiar, so I pulled into the parking lot and
went in. The picketers yelled stuff to me, but I felt
they didn't know my situation so they didn't deserve my
time.
Once inside, I gave the receptionist a fake name. I felt
numb. I filled out paper work, talked to a counselor,
talked to a nurse, and tried not to think about what I
was doing. A nurse escorted me into the abortion room.
She helped me get ready for the procedure and just asked
me vague questions about the weather and if I was going
to school. The abortionist came into the room and began
my abortion. The nurse was leaning over me and staring
into my eyes. After a little while, she asked the doctor
"Is something wrong?" He said, "It is trying to get away
-- I've tried three times!"
I was shocked!! What he said hit me like a ton of bricks.
It is trying to get away! I started to pray and ask God
to stop all this from happening -- to not let it work --
to let it fail -- to put His hand in the way of the
vacuum. I couldn't believe what I was doing!! Seconds
later, the abortionist said, "It's done". He put away his
tools and left the room. From that moment on I have
REGRETTED MY ABORTION!! I just wanted to run, to die...I
was ANGRY! After the nurse left the room, I started to
cry. A part of me died in that room. I knew what I did
was wrong. The "IT" he was referring to was MY BABY!
As I walked down the steps to leave the place, I just
balled. I remember looking in the sky, wondering what God
thought of me. The rest of the day, I laid on the couch.
I would look at my son and just cry. I wanted to go back
to that place and pull my baby out of the dumpster. If
only I could live that day over again. My decision to
have an abortion was final. It was over. I can't go back.
My mom, who thought I miscarried, encouraged me to name
my baby and to write my baby a letter. I named my baby,
Baby Chris and I wrote her a letter. I still have things
that make me grieve -- like when I go to the dentist and
hear the suction machine. My abortion happened two days
before Valentines Day, so every Valentines Day is a
reminder. Baby Chris would have been born in September.
By now, she would be 15 years old. I wonder what she
would look like. I wonder what her laugh would sound
like. I wonder if she would have a boyfriend. On this
earth, I will never be able to hold her or kiss her good
night. To tell her I am sorry. I can't believe that I
took the life of an innocent baby to make myself look
better. I really wish I had had the courage to stand up
for Baby Chris and to have said NO.
My grief drew me closer to God. I know that He forgives
me for what I did. When I asked for His forgiveness, He
gave me a clean slate. He remembers my sin no more. For
that, I am eternally grateful!!! I know that, when I die,
God will welcome me in to Heaven. Standing next to him
will be Baby Chris. Only then, will I no longer Regret My
Abortion.
If you or someone you know has questions about abortion,
please e-mail me at purplelatte@hotmail.com. Abortion is
not the only choice. You can parent your baby or release
him/her for adoption. I may not have all the answers but
I want to encourage you to make a decision you can live
with.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:56:28 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
.
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
01 Feb 2005 02:21:27 PM |
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Forwarded messages
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-To: madprof98
Make no mistake - these pro-abortion folks know that
their game is just about over and they will become more
and more dangerous as the fear sweeps over them. They are
barbaric and superstitious rats who are cornered in a now
well-lit room. Science and medical technology have shown
beyond any reasonable doubt that their entire agenda has
been one long series of lies. They know that they are
about to make the same kind of transition that Saddam
Hussein made from living in multiple palaces (also built
by and on the deaths of others) to hiding in a hole in
the ground. They will cling ferociously to their obscene
sacrament in the midst of their soon-to-be-hidden covens,
but, on their way down, they will become more openly and
vigorously violent.
It won't be pretty.
I predict that as restrictions on abortions tighten, they
will produce the bodies of "martyrs" similar to muslim
suicide bombers. These will be women who died
"tragically" as the result of their home-made abortions.
At least, that's what they'll claim. In fact, they will
be pregnant women intentionally killed for the cause.
Posted on 01/31/2005 8:58:36 AM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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-To: Emmett McCarthy
Like when they bring out those wire hangers. What a
joke...
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:04:39 AM PST by ConservativeTerrapin
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-To: Aquinasfan
One actress on the side of life with her candid story is
worth her weight in gold. I am speaking specifically of
Jennifer O'Neil. You will not see her on the Today Show
or in the lamestream media because she is devastating to
the abortion monger case.
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:05:36 AM PST by Monterrosa-24
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-To: Emmett McCarthy
I think you are right.
These people are so greedy and blinded by ideology that I
think they would kill innocent women to further their
cause.
This whole thing also makes husbands wonder about our
wives miscarriages at times. I know my wife really well,
and I dont think she would ever do such a thing, but she
has had three miscarriages and the thought has crossed my
mind; how would I ever know if she were not lying and had
an abortion?"
Thank God she is not such a person that I could actually
imagine doing that.
Abortion should at minimum be limited to the earliest
stages of pregnancy, before the child has a functioning
brain.
But preferably it should never happen at all.
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:09:51 AM PST by JFK_Lib
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-To: madprof98
Students for Choice member A’yen Tran, BC ’04, who spoke
about her two abortions. At the time, she said, she lived
in the Barnard quad, did not have a job, and could not
take care of a baby.
So why did she get pregnant....TWICE? Disgusting.
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:12:58 AM PST by montag813
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-To: montag813
So why did she get pregnant....TWICE? Disgusting.
That's what I thought when I read that part too. She's
the "dirty little secret" that abortionists claim are not
really the majority of their baby killing group, but in
reality are: Purely as a last resort for birth control.
I'm suprised she was trumpeted so loudly as a shinning
example for their barbarism. It must have been because
they felt safe in such a "progressive" enviornment as a
liberal college campus.
If confronted about this obvious conflict of logic, I'm
sure she'd say something like, "Well, I tried. I mean, by
boyfriend and I both used something.", and then giggle
like the airheaded bimbo she so clearly is.
Here's an idea you stupid *****: WHY NOT KEEP YOUR LEGS
CLOSED?!? Ever think of THAT?
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:20:18 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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-To: madprof98
This is a little off subject, but a FReeper posted
something as a response to something I either initially
posted or responded to last year. It was a fictional/
hypothetical story about taking abortion one or two steps
further. The scene was a mother talking on the phone to
her mom about taking her toddler son to a 'clinic' to be
euthanized. I believe they used the name 'Timmy' for the
little one (I could be wrong on that point) It was all
very subtle, poignant and stark at the same time. It
shows where these people's thought processes lead. All in
matter of fact words and subtleties of language. It was
TERRIFYING.
Botton line is, I must have inadvertenly deleted the
FReepMail that its poster sent me. If anybody knows the
content I'm referring to, please FReepMail me with the
information.
Thanks much...
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:25:12 AM PST by OriginalChristian
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: JFK_Lib
As to your insight that the abortion agenda creates a
possible mistrust between husbands and wives: Abortion is
probably the key player, along with homosexuality,
pornography, no-fault divorce, etc. in dismantling all of
our social structure which depends on predictability and
trust within our most intimate relationships. And, if
it's true that man is made "in the image and likeness of
God" and things can be sufficiently disrupted so that men
can't trust each other (or their wives), then logical
next step is for no one to trust God.
Legalized abortion is the keystone of that particular
Tower of Babel.
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:34:54 AM PST by Emmett McCarthy
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: madprof98
I wonder if they'd like to hear my sister's story; she
DIDN'T have an abortion 35 years ago - carried the baby
to term and gave it up for adoption. Two weeks ago, her
son contacted her, and on Saturday we all met him. My
sister is a succesful professional woman, and - it turns
out - her son is doing quite well himself. So much for
the argument that abortion is "necessary" so that women
don't ruin their lives.
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:37:39 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: Emmett McCarthy
Good observations.
That is the thing that is most horrid about abortion and
murder of all sorts; it is the most blatant act of hatred
for God Himself.
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:39:30 AM PST by JFK_Lib
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: OriginalChristian
This is a little off subject, but a FReeper posted
something as a response to something I either initially
posted or responded to last year. It was a fictional/
hypothetical story about taking abortion one or two steps
further. The scene was a mother talking on the phone to
her mom about taking her toddler son to a 'clinic' to be
euthanized. I believe they used the name 'Timmy' for the
little one (I could be wrong on that point) It was all
very subtle, poignant and stark at the same time. It
shows where these people's thought processes lead. All in
matter of fact words and subtleties of language. It was
TERRIFYING.
I remember reading a short story written around 1968 by
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. where it featured a future US, it
seemed like it was set around 200 years later, where
people could go to special places to commit voluntary
suicide. It chilled me to the bone. Somehow, I get the
feeling that your story is a lot more chilling than
Vonnegut's.
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:44:37 AM PST by Nowhere Man
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: Steve_Seattle
Good reminder, but the pro-aborts will turn a deaf ear to
it. The same people who whine that it would just tear
them apart to place a child for adoption claim to have no
qualms at all about chopping the same child into little
bits and tossing the remains into the trash.
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:45:30 AM PST by madprof98
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: madprof98; rmlew
Documentary Includes Testimonials From Barnard Alumna,
Others Who Had Abortions; Includes Only Positive
Experiences
Back when my brother was at Columbia, he said that most
of the Columbia students called Barnard "Barnyard".
Posted on 01/31/2005 9:52:58 AM PST by Paleo Conservative
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: Aquinasfan
God bless you for sharing this story. You are probably
the one who is suffering most for this event in your
life. The precious baby has been with God for 15 years,
God has long since forgiven you and moved on to other
concerns for your life and your soul. Thank God for your
guilt, without it you would not have been lead by Him to
write a powerful piece like this. A lot of women who will
read it and be moved by it would not have had the benefit
of your first-person account to help them with their
decision.
Posted on 01/31/2005 11:02:47 AM PST by jwpjr
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,457 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
01 Feb 2005 06:44:36 PM |
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:59:33 GMT,
Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to have an
abortion?
No. Nor have I ever wondered what it was like to have a
broken arm set. Or to have an appendectomy.
But Lord help the assh*le who would EVER seek to DENY
either of those remedies to me, should I ever desire to seek one
of them.
And that is precisely how MOST women probably feel about
abortion.
Abortion is nothing but a harmless, and hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
And only a profoundly IGNORANT and hateful person would
ever seek to deny easy, safe, and legal **access** to it, to ANY
girl or woman who were to desire it.
<bigoted & ignorant hate-bullcrap flushed>
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
.
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| User: "The PhAnToM" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
02 Feb 2005 12:18:01 AM |
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Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,457 days to BYE-BYE Bushie!
Forever!! wrote:
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:59:33 GMT,
Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to have an
abortion?
No. Nor have I ever wondered what it was like to have a
broken arm set. Or to have an appendectomy.
But Lord help the assh*le who would EVER seek to DENY
either of those remedies to me, should I ever desire to seek one
of them.
And that is precisely how MOST women probably feel about
abortion.
Abortion is nothing but a harmless, and hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
"most" women? Have you taken a poll? Your appendix doesn't move around
in the trash basket after it is thrown away. Little bit of a difference
there.
.
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| User: "Linda Terrell" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
03 Feb 2005 05:11:54 PM |
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on is nothing but a harmless, and hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
"most" women? Have you taken a poll? Your appendix doesn't move around
in the trash basket after it is thrown away. Little bit of a difference
there.
Talk about someone who doesn't know squat about what an
abortion is like or what an embryo in first trimester
looks like (90% of abortions in this country are done
in first trimester)
LT
.
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| User: "The PhAnToM" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
03 Feb 2005 11:44:34 PM |
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Linda Terrell wrote:
on is nothing but a harmless, and hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
"most" women? Have you taken a poll? Your appendix doesn't move
around
in the trash basket after it is thrown away. Little bit of a
difference
there.
Talk about someone who doesn't know squat about what an
abortion is like or what an embryo in first trimester
looks like (90% of abortions in this country are done
in first trimester)
Actually, my mom is an RN who used to work in an abortion clinic, so I
have it on pretty good authority. And nice to know that you seem to
shed some crocodile tears over the other 10% (what, is that like
100,000 fetuses?).
.
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| User: "Linda Terrell" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
04 Feb 2005 04:45:02 PM |
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In article <1107495874.065541.310280@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Linda Terrell wrote:
on is nothing but a harmless, and hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
"most" women? Have you taken a poll? Your appendix doesn't move
around
in the trash basket after it is thrown away. Little bit of a
difference
there.
Talk about someone who doesn't know squat about what an
abortion is like or what an embryo in first trimester
looks like (90% of abortions in this country are done
in first trimester)
Actually, my mom is an RN who used to work in an abortion clinic, so I
have it on pretty good authority. And nice to know that you seem to
shed some crocodile tears over the other 10% (what, is that like
100,000 fetuses?).
I have worked in a hospital for 38 years. I have seen
"products of conception". It looks like a bloody stew.
You can't see an embryo. Period.
And they aren't dumped in the trash -- not in florida.
It's hazardous medical waste and has to be disposed
of in special containers.
LT
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,446 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
04 Feb 2005 12:24:12 AM |
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|
On 3 Feb 2005 21:44:34 -0800,
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Linda Terrell wrote:
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to have an
abortion?
No. Nor have I ever wondered what it was like to have a
broken arm set. Or to have an appendectomy.
But Lord help the assh*le who would EVER seek to DENY
either of those remedies to me, should I ever desire to seek one
of them.
And that is precisely how MOST women probably feel about
abortion.
Abortion is nothing but a harmless, and hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
"Most" women? Have you taken a poll? Your appendix
doesn't move around in the trash basket after it is thrown
away. Little bit of a difference there.
Talk about someone who doesn't know squat about what an
abortion is like or what an embryo in first trimester looks like (90%
of abortions in this country are done in first trimester)
Actually, my mom is an RN who used to work in an abortion clinic,
so I have it on pretty good authority. And nice to know that you seem
to shed some crocodile tears over the other 10% (what, is that like
100,000 fetuses?).
Perhaps, give or take a few thousand INsignicant-when-
unwanted, mere reproductive-process entities. (Which even the
Bible never defends [except just ONCE -- as **property** -- in a
passage that condones **slavery**! -- Ex. 21:20-25.]
No need for anyone to shed any tears -- crocodile or otherwise --
for entities that are the EQIVALENT, in all important ways, to the
Stage One (of the reproductive process) entities that Anti-Choicers
hypocritically *don't* defend... gametes. Which ALSO are merely
POTENTIAL people. Human, unique, and alive -- just like the other
3 stages that the bigots so hatefully and ignorantly WHINE about,
in their mindless and busybodyish desire to FORCE millions of women
to gestate-to-term against their will -- a very real form of RAPE.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
.
|
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| User: "The PhAnToM" |
|
| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
04 Feb 2005 02:43:56 AM |
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|
Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,446 days to BYE-BYE Bushie!
Forever!! wrote:
On 3 Feb 2005 21:44:34 -0800,
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Linda Terrell wrote:
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to have an
abortion?
No. Nor have I ever wondered what it was like to have a
broken arm set. Or to have an appendectomy.
But Lord help the assh*le who would EVER seek to DENY
either of those remedies to me, should I ever desire to seek one
of them.
And that is precisely how MOST women probably feel about
abortion.
Abortion is nothing but a harmless, and
hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
"Most" women? Have you taken a poll? Your appendix
doesn't move around in the trash basket after it is thrown
away. Little bit of a difference there.
Talk about someone who doesn't know squat about what an
abortion is like or what an embryo in first trimester looks like
(90%
of abortions in this country are done in first trimester)
Actually, my mom is an RN who used to work in an abortion
clinic,
so I have it on pretty good authority. And nice to know that you
seem
to shed some crocodile tears over the other 10% (what, is that like
100,000 fetuses?).
Perhaps, give or take a few thousand INsignicant-when-
unwanted, mere reproductive-process entities. (Which even the
Bible never defends [except just ONCE -- as **property** -- in a
passage that condones **slavery**! -- Ex. 21:20-25.]
No need for anyone to shed any tears -- crocodile or otherwise --
for entities that are the EQIVALENT, in all important ways, to the
Stage One (of the reproductive process) entities that Anti-Choicers
hypocritically *don't* defend... gametes. Which ALSO are merely
POTENTIAL people. Human, unique, and alive -- just like the other
3 stages that the bigots so hatefully and ignorantly WHINE about,
in their mindless and busybodyish desire to FORCE millions of women
to gestate-to-term against their will -- a very real form of RAPE.
Wow, Craig, such self-righteous anger... were you yourself raped by
your father as a child? Perhaps by an elder babysitter as in Antwone
Fisher? Or maybe your mother was a victim of something similar, and she
took out her hatred of men on you as a child?
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,446 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
04 Feb 2005 07:10:33 AM |
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On 4 Feb 2005 00:43:56 -0800,
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Linda Terrell wrote:
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to have an
abortion?
No. Nor have I ever wondered what it was like to have a
broken arm set. Or to have an appendectomy.
But Lord help the assh*le who would EVER seek to DENY
either of those remedies to me, should I ever desire to seek one
of them.
And that is precisely how MOST women probably feel about
abortion.
Abortion is nothing but a harmless, and hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
"Most" women? Have you taken a poll? Your appendix
doesn't move around in the trash basket after it is thrown
away. Little bit of a difference there.
Talk about someone who doesn't know squat about what an
abortion is like or what an embryo in first trimester looks like
(90% of abortions in this country are done in first trimester)
Actually, my mom is an RN who used to work in an abortion
clinic, so I have it on pretty good authority. And nice to know
that you seem to shed some crocodile tears over the other 10%
(what, is that like 100,000 fetuses?).
Perhaps, give or take a few thousand INsignicant-when-
unwanted, mere reproductive-process entities. (Which even the
Bible never defends [except just ONCE -- as **property** -- in a
passage that condones **slavery**! -- Ex. 21:20-25.]
No need for anyone to shed any tears -- crocodile or otherwise --
for entities that are the EQIVALENT, in all important ways, to the
Stage One (of the reproductive process) entities that Anti-Choicers
hypocritically *don't* defend... gametes. Which ALSO are merely
POTENTIAL people. Human, unique, and alive -- just like the other
3 stages that the bigots so hatefully and ignorantly WHINE about,
in their mindless and busybodyish desire to FORCE millions of women
to gestate-to-term against their will -- a very real form of RAPE.
Wow, Craig, such self-righteous anger... were you yourself raped by
your father as a child? Perhaps by an elder babysitter as in Antwone
Fisher? Or maybe your mother was a victim of something similar, and she
took out her hatred of men on you as a child?
ROTFL!!!!!!
There you have it, folks.
A perfect example of the LAMENESS that Anti-Choicers are
forced to demonstrate in their whiney excuses for "rebuttals" -- in
lieu of all the relevant FACTS... of which they have NONE.
Most of the facts that indict those ignorant and hateful losers
are contained in the SIG, below.
-- Craig Chilton
(To E-mail me, remove the "_".)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
ANALYZING ABORTION-ON-REQUEST* in the USA
*(Abortion Rights as they have existed since 1-22-73)
Abortion terminates entities (z/e/fs: zygotes, embryoes &
fetuses, up until the 7th month of gestation) which have ALL
of these characteristics in common with sperm and ova:
-- Human
-- Unique
-- As a stage of development, indispensible to future birth
-- Have NEVER experienced conscious awareness
-- Alive
...which makes it hypocritical when abortion opponents
try to defend z/e/fs but NOT sperm and ova.
And the Bible, which is the primary moral authority for the
majority of Americans:
-- In NO way condemns abortion
-- Doesn't even MENTION abortion
-- By Jesus' day, abortion had been around for 1,000 yrs.
-- Contains NO defenses of s/o/z/e/fs
-- Reserves ALL of its protection for already-BORN people
-- That the Bible regards personhood to begin at BIRTH is
made clear by it's immense emphasis on the importance
of BIRTH order, and BIRTHrights.
-- In certain cases, condemned BABIES to horrible deaths
-- Never indicates that there is anything "special" about
fertilization
-- Thus making z/e/f and sperm & ova of EQUAL worth
Abortion-on-request enables women to:
-- Put their lives back on track immediately
-- Restore their well-being to pre-unplanned pregnancy levels
-- Vast majority of women are happy with this decision
-- Most women have no regrets
-- Restore their full range of future opportunities
-- Avoid physical difficulties of a 9-month pregnancy
-- Especially important for young girls, ~12-16
-- Statistically 6-10 times safer than carrying-to-term
-- Avoid the trauma of adopting-out, and wondering later
-- Avoid possibility of changing mind about adopting-out
-- Reduce likelihood of long-term economic deprivation
-- Avoid bringing child into less-loving home
-- Avoid bringing child into unstable environment
-- Wait until timing is better before having children
-- Who then are MORE likely to be loved
-- Who then are MORE likely to be in stable home
-- And thus are LESS like to have troubled childhoods
-- And therefore more likely NOT to become criminals
-- And thus are MORE likely to become successful
Legal abortion-on-request:
-- Is exponentially safer than illegal abortions
-- Thus saving the lives of hundreds or thousands of women/yr.
-- Has been available throughout the USA since early 1973
-- Between 1973 and 2000, 30 million women have had them
-- Between 1973 and 2000, 40 million abortions have been done
Other related facts include:
-- MOST women who have abortions go on to HAVE kids later,
when the timing is better
-- Those children would NOT have been born if the abortions
had not taken place earlier, because the same sperm and
ova would not have matched up.
-- Those "2nd-round" kids STARTED reaching age 13 in
significant numbers by 1988. By the early 1990s, millions
of those "2nd-round" kids were in their mid-teens by the
early 1990s.
-- Mid-teens is the highest risk age for crime, and this
continues into the early 20s.
-- As pointed out above, wanted and loved children are
LESS prone to criminal behavior.
-- By 1995, millions of "2nd-round kids" were entering the
workforce. Perhaps a million-plus MORE have entered it
every year SINCE. By 2000, the oldest ones had reached
the age where they could be getting quite successful.
-- Since the early 1990s, the rate of violent crime in the USA
has declined dramatically, and by 2000 was at 40-year
lows in many categories.
-- The decade of the 1990s, and the year 2002 to date, in
the USA, has been the most economically-dynamic of
any nation in the entire history of the world.
Although the exact figures may be impossible to derive, the
probability that abortion-on-request has SIGNIFICANTLY benefitted
all of America's society in terms of the crime rate and the economy
is QUITE strong, despite the temporary anomaly caused by the attack
on Sept. 11, 2001. And a strong U.S. economy benefits the entire
world.
-- Originally posted to alt.abortion
and talk.abortion on Aug. 13, 2000
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
.
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| User: "The PhAnToM" |
|
| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
04 Feb 2005 11:40:52 AM |
|
|
Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,446 days to BYE-BYE Bushie!
Forever!! wrote:
On 4 Feb 2005 00:43:56 -0800,
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Linda Terrell wrote:
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to have an
abortion?
No. Nor have I ever wondered what it was like to have a
broken arm set. Or to have an appendectomy.
But Lord help the assh*le who would EVER seek to DENY
either of those remedies to me, should I ever desire to seek
one
of them.
And that is precisely how MOST women probably feel about
abortion.
Abortion is nothing but a harmless, and
hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
"Most" women? Have you taken a poll? Your appendix
doesn't move around in the trash basket after it is thrown
away. Little bit of a difference there.
Talk about someone who doesn't know squat about what an
abortion is like or what an embryo in first trimester looks like
(90% of abortions in this country are done in first trimester)
Actually, my mom is an RN who used to work in an abortion
clinic, so I have it on pretty good authority. And nice to know
that you seem to shed some crocodile tears over the other 10%
(what, is that like 100,000 fetuses?).
Perhaps, give or take a few thousand INsignicant-when-
unwanted, mere reproductive-process entities. (Which even the
Bible never defends [except just ONCE -- as **property** -- in a
passage that condones **slavery**! -- Ex. 21:20-25.]
No need for anyone to shed any tears -- crocodile or otherwise
--
for entities that are the EQIVALENT, in all important ways, to the
Stage One (of the reproductive process) entities that
Anti-Choicers
hypocritically *don't* defend... gametes. Which ALSO are merely
POTENTIAL people. Human, unique, and alive -- just like the other
3 stages that the bigots so hatefully and ignorantly WHINE about,
in their mindless and busybodyish desire to FORCE millions of
women
to gestate-to-term against their will -- a very real form of RAPE.
Wow, Craig, such self-righteous anger... were you yourself
raped by
your father as a child? Perhaps by an elder babysitter as in
Antwone
Fisher? Or maybe your mother was a victim of something similar, and
she
took out her hatred of men on you as a child?
ROTFL!!!!!!
There you have it, folks.
A perfect example of the LAMENESS that Anti-Choicers are
forced to demonstrate in their whiney excuses for "rebuttals" -- in
lieu of all the relevant FACTS... of which they have NONE.
Most of the facts that indict those ignorant and hateful losers
are contained in the SIG, below.
-- Craig Chilton
Facts? By the same person who says that abortion is similar to having
an unnecessary appendage removed, and then says denial of abortion is
akin to "RAPE"? I'll remember that, if my HMO denies me for a simple
procedure, or says a doctor tells me that removal of a wart, for
instance, is unnecessary, I can cry "RAPE!" This is where your
"abortion is just a simple surgical procedure" analogy falls false. No
one has an irrational emotional attachment to appendix removal.
You are beyond hysterical, and I just wonder at the root cause of it.
Was your mother traumatized by having a "back-alley" abortion? Your
sister? Did you force your girlfriend to have an abortion against her
will? What? I just stumbled upon a cross-posted thread by chance, but
you seem to have some hyper-emotional stake in this issue, and I wonder
what it is, can you tell us?
.
|
|
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,446 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
|
| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
04 Feb 2005 04:51:36 PM |
|
|
On 4 Feb 2005 09:40:52 -0800,
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Linda Terrell wrote:
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to have an
abortion?
No. Nor have I ever wondered what it was like to have a
broken arm set. Or to have an appendectomy.
But Lord help the assh*le who would EVER seek to DENY
either of those remedies to me, should I ever desire to seek
one of them.
And that is precisely how MOST women probably feel about
abortion.
Abortion is nothing but a harmless, and hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
"Most" women? Have you taken a poll? Your appendix
doesn't move around in the trash basket after it is thrown
away. Little bit of a difference there.
Talk about someone who doesn't know squat about what an
abortion is like or what an embryo in first trimester looks like
(90% of abortions in this country are done in first trimester)
Actually, my mom is an RN who used to work in an abortion
clinic, so I have it on pretty good authority. And nice to know
that you seem to shed some crocodile tears over the other 10%
(what, is that like 100,000 fetuses?).
Perhaps, give or take a few thousand INsignicant-when-
unwanted, mere reproductive-process entities. (Which even the
Bible never defends [except just ONCE -- as **property** -- in a
passage that condones **slavery**! -- Ex. 21:20-25.]
No need for anyone to shed any tears -- crocodile or otherwise --
for entities that are the EQIVALENT, in all important ways, to the
Stage One (of the reproductive process) entities that Anti-Choicers
hypocritically *don't* defend... gametes. Which ALSO are merely
POTENTIAL people. Human, unique, and alive -- just like the other
3 stages that the bigots so hatefully and ignorantly WHINE about,
in their mindless and busybodyish desire to FORCE millions of
women to gestate-to-term against their will -- a very real form of RAPE.
Wow, Craig, such self-righteous anger... were you yourself raped
by your father as a child? Perhaps by an elder babysitter as in
Antwone Fisher? Or maybe your mother was a victim of something
similar, and she took out her hatred of men on you as a child?
ROTFL!!!!!!
There you have it, folks.
A perfect example of the LAMENESS that Anti-Choicers are
forced to demonstrate in their whiney excuses for "rebuttals" -- in
lieu of all the relevant FACTS... of which they have NONE.
Most of the facts that indict those ignorant and hateful losers
are contained in the SIG, below.
<Which I've RESTORED, at the end of this post, since it totally
INDICTS Anti-Choice... **and** his vacuous arguments.>
Facts? By the same person who says that abortion is similar to having
an unnecessary appendage removed, and then says denial of abortion is
akin to "RAPE"? I'll remember that, if my HMO denies me for a simple
procedure, or says a doctor tells me that removal of a wart, for
instance, is unnecessary, I can cry "RAPE!"
(1) The common ground for abortion, appendectomies, the
application of band-Aids, the taking of aspirin, and the
setting of broken arms is *this*: ALL are REMEDIES for
a prevailing unwanted medical condition. ***FACT***.
(2) Imposing unwanted full-term gestation upon a woman by
FORCE (which is what denying abortion to her would do) IS
totally **analogous** (and in many ways at least as heinous)
to rape. Absolutely unconscionable. ***FACT***
This is where your "abortion is just a simple surgical procedure"
analogy falls false. No one has an irrational emotional attachment to
appendix removal.
Wrong. The primary emotional reaction to **both** procedures is
RELIEF. As rigorous and peer-reviewed studies have cosistently
proven, in the case of abortion.
(And, BTW, I doubt if you'll be able to fina nay of my posts in
which I stated the quote you just attributed to me. Why? Because
while early abortion IS often merely a simple surgical procedure, it
is NOT always surgical. The Morning-After Pill is abortion the zygote
stage of the reproductive process, and RU-486 is chemical abortion
during the embryonic stage. Neither are surgical, and I defend both
of those just as readily as I support surgical ones.
You are beyond hysterical, and I just wonder at the root cause of it.
Was your mother traumatized by having a "back-alley" abortion? Your
sister? Did you force your girlfriend to have an abortion against her
will? What? I just stumbled upon a cross-posted thread by chance, but
you seem to have some hyper-emotional stake in this issue, and I wonder
what it is, can you tell us?
[[[ READERS: None of this loon's speculations is remotely
true, but it's funnier than hell watching him conjuring them
up. That which really IS sad, though, is the fact that most
of the bigots of Anti-Choice are too mentally-challenged
(or socially retarded) to comprehend the value of personal
liberties... and the natural desire of sensible and fair-
minded egalitarians to ensure that NO sociopathic losers
will EVER again have the chance to hatefully FORCE
women to gestate to term against their will, thus depriving
them of their rights, putting her into a 2nd-class-citizen
position of involuntary servitude to an unwanted entity
that isn't even a person, and disrupting her short- and long-
term well-being. As well as destroying many of her future
opportunities. Such sociopaths are totally without excuse. ]]]
-- Craig Chilton
(To E-mail me, remove the "_".)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
ANALYZING ABORTION-ON-REQUEST* in the USA
*(Abortion Rights as they have existed since 1-22-73)
Abortion terminates entities (z/e/fs: zygotes, embryoes &
fetuses, up until the 7th month of gestation) which have ALL
of these characteristics in common with sperm and ova:
-- Human
-- Unique
-- As a stage of development, indispensible to future birth
-- Have NEVER experienced conscious awareness
-- Alive
...which makes it hypocritical when abortion opponents
try to defend z/e/fs but NOT sperm and ova.
And the Bible, which is the primary moral authority for the
majority of Americans:
-- In NO way condemns abortion
-- Doesn't even MENTION abortion
-- By Jesus' day, abortion had been around for 1,000 yrs.
-- Contains NO defenses of s/o/z/e/fs
-- Reserves ALL of its protection for already-BORN people
-- That the Bible regards personhood to begin at BIRTH is
made clear by it's immense emphasis on the importance
of BIRTH order, and BIRTHrights.
-- In certain cases, condemned BABIES to horrible deaths
-- Never indicates that there is anything "special" about
fertilization
-- Thus making z/e/f and sperm & ova of EQUAL worth
Abortion-on-request enables women to:
-- Put their lives back on track immediately
-- Restore their well-being to pre-unplanned pregnancy levels
-- Vast majority of women are happy with this decision
-- Most women have no regrets
-- Restore their full range of future opportunities
-- Avoid physical difficulties of a 9-month pregnancy
-- Especially important for young girls, ~12-16
-- Statistically 6-10 times safer than carrying-to-term
-- Avoid the trauma of adopting-out, and wondering later
-- Avoid possibility of changing mind about adopting-out
-- Reduce likelihood of long-term economic deprivation
-- Avoid bringing child into less-loving home
-- Avoid bringing child into unstable environment
-- Wait until timing is better before having children
-- Who then are MORE likely to be loved
-- Who then are MORE likely to be in stable home
-- And thus are LESS like to have troubled childhoods
-- And therefore more likely NOT to become criminals
-- And thus are MORE likely to become successful
Legal abortion-on-request:
-- Is exponentially safer than illegal abortions
-- Thus saving the lives of hundreds or thousands of women/yr.
-- Has been available throughout the USA since early 1973
-- Between 1973 and 2000, 30 million women have had them
-- Between 1973 and 2000, 40 million abortions have been done
Other related facts include:
-- MOST women who have abortions go on to HAVE kids later,
when the timing is better
-- Those children would NOT have been born if the abortions
had not taken place earlier, because the same sperm and
ova would not have matched up.
-- Those "2nd-round" kids STARTED reaching age 13 in
significant numbers by 1988. By the early 1990s, millions
of those "2nd-round" kids were in their mid-teens by the
early 1990s.
-- Mid-teens is the highest risk age for crime, and this
continues into the early 20s.
-- As pointed out above, wanted and loved children are
LESS prone to criminal behavior.
-- By 1995, millions of "2nd-round kids" were entering the
workforce. Perhaps a million-plus MORE have entered it
every year SINCE. By 2000, the oldest ones had reached
the age where they could be getting quite successful.
-- Since the early 1990s, the rate of violent crime in the USA
has declined dramatically, and by 2000 was at 40-year
lows in many categories.
-- The decade of the 1990s, and the year 2002 to date, in
the USA, has been the most economically-dynamic of
any nation in the entire history of the world.
Although the exact figures may be impossible to derive, the
probability that abortion-on-request has SIGNIFICANTLY benefitted
all of America's society in terms of the crime rate and the economy
is QUITE strong, despite the temporary anomaly caused by the attack
on Sept. 11, 2001. And a strong U.S. economy benefits the entire
world.
-- Originally posted to alt.abortion
and talk.abortion on Aug. 13, 2000
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,455 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
02 Feb 2005 01:28:52 AM |
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On 1 Feb 2005 22:18:01 -0800,
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to have an
abortion?
No. Nor have I ever wondered what it was like to have a
broken arm set. Or to have an appendectomy.
But Lord help the assh*le who would EVER seek to DENY
either of those remedies to me, should I ever desire to seek one
of them.
And that is precisely how MOST women probably feel about
abortion.
Abortion is nothing but a harmless, and hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
"Most" women? Have you taken a poll?
No. But GALLUP has taken many highly-reliable ones. And for over
20 years, they have consistently found that Americans are Pro-Choice,
2-1. And that those who oppose ALL abortions, with no exceptions, are
always right around only a mere 17%. (Those who would make ANY
exceptions, such as for rape or incest -- the other 87% -- thus PROVE
that they regard mere reproductive entities NOT to be people, since
very close to NONE of them would make exceptions that would permit
**infanticide** AFTER birth takes place.)
So MOST people who *are* Anti-Choice are **hypocrites.**
As for women? Well -- Over 35,000,000 of them have had
abortions since 1973... many more than once. How many of
those 35 MILLION women do you hear WHINING about it?
(Reliable and rigorous, peer-reviewed studies have consistently
found that all but a relative handful of women -- who in almost all
cases, with respect to that handful, had misgivings BEFORE having
the abortion -- were RELIEVED that the procedure had been safely,
legally, and easily accessible to them, and were vey glad and grateful
that that had been the case.)
Your appendix doesn't move around in the trash basket after
it is thrown away. Little bit of a difference there.
Yeah. "Little bit" is right. A totally INSIGNIFICANT one. A
DEAD frog -- which has the *same* level of awareness that an
aborted reproductive-process entity has, both *before* AND after
the abortion (i.e., ZIP) -- will move around if electrodes are applied
to its legs.
Unconscious muscular spasms/reflexes are NO justification for
hateful, selfish, and ignorant people to unconscionably seek to
impose IMMENSE hardship upon no fewer than tens of MILLIONS
of women by FORCING childbirth upon them. AGAINST their will.
Resulting in the DENIAL of their rights... their RELEGATION to
second-class-citizen status... their INVOLUNTARY SERVITUDE to
mere, NON-sentient developing entities which are, in all important
ways, equivalent to sperm and ova (human, unique, NON-sentient,
a stage of development without which NO births would occur --
and alive); entities which the WOMEN would very properly, under
the circumstances, regard to be parasitic. Further manifestations of
that hardship would be the DISRUPTION of their well-being, both
short-term and long-term (as in, for decades or a lifetime)... and the
DESTRUCTION of countless of their opportunities.
Anti-Choicers are totally without excuse.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
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| User: "Jesse Mazer" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
02 Feb 2005 03:04:52 AM |
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Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,455 days to BYE-BYE Bushie!
Forever!! wrote:
On 1 Feb 2005 22:18:01 -0800,
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Your appendix doesn't move around in the trash basket after
it is thrown away. Little bit of a difference there.
Yeah. "Little bit" is right. A totally INSIGNIFICANT one. A
DEAD frog -- which has the *same* level of awareness that an
aborted reproductive-process entity has, both *before* AND after
the abortion (i.e., ZIP) -- will move around if electrodes are applied
to its legs.
Up until the end of the second trimester, there are no synapses
connecting the neurons in the brain, so you're right that the fetus
almost certainly has no more awareness than a dead frog whose muscles
twitch when stimulated by electricity. But after the synapses develop it
would presumably have some level of awareness, although of course the
number of abortions performed in the third trimester is relatively tiny.
Jesse
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| User: "Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,455 days to BYE-BYE Bushie! Forever!!" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
02 Feb 2005 07:35:57 AM |
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On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:04:52 GMT,
Jesse Mazer <vze2ztqw@mail.verizon.net> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"The PhAnToM" <victorthecleaner@gmail.com> wrote:
Your appendix doesn't move around in the trash basket after
it is thrown away. Little bit of a difference there.
Yeah. "Little bit" is right. A totally INSIGNIFICANT one. A
DEAD frog -- which has the *same* level of awareness that an
aborted reproductive-process entity has, both *before* AND after
the abortion (i.e., ZIP) -- will move around if electrodes are applied
to its legs.
Up until the end of the second trimester, there are no synapses
connecting the neurons in the brain, so you're right that the fetus
almost certainly has no more awareness than a dead frog whose muscles
twitch when stimulated by electricity. But after the synapses develop it
would presumably have some level of awareness, although of course the
number of abortions performed in the third trimester is relatively tiny.
Jesse
RIGHT on the money on all counts, Jesse!
In fact, JAMA has documented that in the USA, only
between 500 and 600 3rd-trimester abortions are performed
annually. Compared to the total of at least 1,200,000 proced-
ures, that it truly an infinitesimal percentage.
And -- almost certainly, ALL of those 3rd-trimester ones are
due to medical exigencies, since no woman would wait that long
to have an elective one, given the greater risks, discomfort, and
costs.
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
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| User: "Frank Dwyer" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
02 Feb 2005 07:18:23 AM |
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Craig Chilton -- Countdown to 1/20/09: 1,457 days to BYE-BYE Bushie!
Forever!! wrote:
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:59:33 GMT,
Jai Maharaj <usenet@mantra.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Have you ever wondered what it's really like to have an
abortion?
No. Nor have I ever wondered what it was like to have a
broken arm set. Or to have an appendectomy.
I've never had the former, but I can tell you an appendectomy is a
blessing if the appendix ruptured - which hurts like hell.
But Lord help the assh*le who would EVER seek to DENY
either of those remedies to me, should I ever desire to seek one
of them.
I'm definitely pro-appendectomy. :-)
And that is precisely how MOST women probably feel about
abortion.
Abortion is nothing but a harmless, and hugely-**beneficial**
REMEDY.
And only a profoundly IGNORANT and hateful person would
ever seek to deny easy, safe, and legal **access** to it, to ANY
girl or woman who were to desire it.
<bigoted & ignorant hate-bullcrap flushed>
-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Every time a person supports bigotry in public, and presents NO
relevant FACTS to back his/her stance in behalf of a loathsome
agenda against individual liberties and human rights, that person
has -- ironically -- further **damaged** the cause he/she supports.
And every time a fair-minded and sensible egalitarian opposes
such a bigot, publicly, and **presents** relevant FACTS that are
damaging to the bigot's agenda, that TOO is an additional nail in
the coffin lid of the agenda, and a push of that casket CLOSER
to the Drain of Extinction -- its well-deserved ultimate destination.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
(E-Mail address is valid when removing _ from it.)
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
01 Feb 2005 04:37:05 PM |
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:59:33 GMT, (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
wrote or quoted :
Includes Only Positive
Experiences
The awkward problem for the pro-life people is that giving birth is
hundreds of times more painful and dangerous than having an abortion.
They have to avoid that aspect and focus on the joys of the child once
born. I have seen some very effective commercials done that way.
But the fact remains there are all sorts of women who get pregnant who
don't want a child. Forcing them to have it is just consigning that
child to a life of neglect and resentment.
It make SO much more sense to focus on PREVENTING unwanted children
than aborting them after they are conceived.
What I find so infuriating is that the pro-life people seem to BLOCK
all attempts at sex education and birth control.
see http://mindprod.com/abortion.html
"Never in human history have such genocide and cruelty been witnessed. Such a genocide was never seen in the time of the pharaohs nor of Hitler nor of Mussolini."
~ Mehmet Elkatmi, head of Turkish parliament's human rights commission on Bush's genocide in the Iraq war. 2004-11-28
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes
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| User: "RichA" |
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| Title: Re: I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers |
01 Feb 2005 04:38:28 PM |
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:59:33 GMT, (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
wrote:
I HAD AN ABORTION Film Opens Dialogue Among Pro-Choicers
Somehow, I knew this wasn't one of the Indian films you review.
-Rich
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