Science > Abortion > Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"james g. keegan jr." |
| Date: |
18 Mar 2005 07:36:47 PM |
| Object: |
Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order
Feminist Daily News Wire
Friday 18 March 2005
Two abortion clinics have accused Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline
of violating a gag order barring him and the clinics from discussing
publicly Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls who sought late-term abortions in 2003. Kline is
accused of holding press conferences and giving interviews on his
investigation while the gag order was still in place. According to the
Associated Press, the Kansas Supreme Court agreed to the clinics'
request last week to lift the gag order following Kline's violation.
The clinics have announced that they plan to inform the patients whose
unedited medical records are being requested.
The Washington Post called Kline's subpoena of these medical records
the strongest move yet by a state official against providers of
late-term abortions. Attorneys for the two clinics targeted by Kline
have told the Kansas Supreme Court that "the logical and natural
progression of this action could well be a knock on the door of a
woman who exercised her constitutional right to privacy, by special
agents of the attorney general who seek to inquire into her personal,
medical, sexual or legal history," the Washington Post reports.
Kline, who has said that he would like to see Roe v. Wade overturned,
began his attempt to force the release of private medical files in
secret last fall, claiming that he needs these records in order to
prosecute child rape. However, Kline has also subpoenaed the records
of women over the age of 16, which is the age of legal consent in the
state. The Attorney General is refusing to give the clinics more
details about the investigation, with the state's lawyers saying that
doing so would be akin to "arguing that suspects in a criminal
investigation should be allowed to oversee the investigation,"
according to the Washington Post.
In 2004, then US Attorney General John Ashcroft sought abortion
records from hospitals and Planned Parenthood clinics in order to
prosecute those who had violated the abortion procedures ban passed by
Congress in 2003. Several federal judges ruled against Ashcroft's
action, and the abortion procedures ban has since been ruled
unconstitutional three times.
http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/031805WB.shtml
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
18 Mar 2005 09:50:19 PM |
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Gag order from child pornographer hypocrites?
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
18 Mar 2005 09:55:32 PM |
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On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 22:50:19 -0500, Johnny wrote:
---begin test restore
Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order
Feminist Daily News Wire
Friday 18 March 2005
Two abortion clinics have accused Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline
of violating a gag order barring him and the clinics from discussing
publicly Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls who sought late-term abortions in 2003. Kline is
accused of holding press conferences and giving interviews on his
investigation while the gag order was still in place. According to the
Associated Press, the Kansas Supreme Court agreed to the clinics'
request last week to lift the gag order following Kline's violation.
The clinics have announced that they plan to inform the patients whose
unedited medical records are being requested.
The Washington Post called Kline's subpoena of these medical records
the strongest move yet by a state official against providers of
late-term abortions. Attorneys for the two clinics targeted by Kline
have told the Kansas Supreme Court that "the logical and natural
progression of this action could well be a knock on the door of a
woman who exercised her constitutional right to privacy, by special
agents of the attorney general who seek to inquire into her personal,
medical, sexual or legal history," the Washington Post reports.
Kline, who has said that he would like to see Roe v. Wade overturned,
began his attempt to force the release of private medical files in
secret last fall, claiming that he needs these records in order to
prosecute child rape. However, Kline has also subpoenaed the records
of women over the age of 16, which is the age of legal consent in the
state. The Attorney General is refusing to give the clinics more
details about the investigation, with the state's lawyers saying that
doing so would be akin to "arguing that suspects in a criminal
investigation should be allowed to oversee the investigation,"
according to the Washington Post.
In 2004, then US Attorney General John Ashcroft sought abortion
records from hospitals and Planned Parenthood clinics in order to
prosecute those who had violated the abortion procedures ban passed by
Congress in 2003. Several federal judges ruled against Ashcroft's
action, and the abortion procedures ban has since been ruled
unconstitutional three times.
http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/031805WB.shtml
---end text restore
Gag order from child pornographer hypocrites?
you must have been thinking of the roman catholic church
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| User: "Pat Winstanley" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
19 Mar 2005 04:20:28 AM |
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In article <pan.2005.03.19.01.36.43.325237@nycap.rr.com>,
keegan@nycap.rr.com says...
Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls
Why doesn't the guy simply request those records from the woman involved
(presuming the women can get legal access to their own personal,
confidential medical records)... ? If they wish those records to be made
public and give their pernmission for this, there should be no problem.
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Doesn't sound like this Kline person has any concern for the women whose
confidentiality and privacy he/she is proposing to breach for his/her
own supposed personal gain!
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
19 Mar 2005 08:01:08 AM |
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"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca60d45522ff20d98c38f@news.uni-berlin.de...
In article <pan.2005.03.19.01.36.43.325237@nycap.rr.com>,
keegan@nycap.rr.com says...
Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls
Why doesn't the guy simply request those records from the woman involved
(presuming the women can get legal access to their own personal,
confidential medical records)... ? If they wish those records to be made
public and give their pernmission for this, there should be no problem.
Good idea.
I think there is room for progress in doing so.
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Concealing evidence is like refusing to testify, like harboring criminals,
protecting them.
There are statutes which override medical confidentiality.
Eminent Domain to protect our people overrides special interest criminal
acts.
Doesn't sound like this Kline person has any concern for the women whose
confidentiality and privacy he/she is proposing to breach for his/her
own supposed personal gain!
*****.
You want your underage daughter dragged into porno and then having abortions
in a La Quinta?
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| User: "Pat Winstanley" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
19 Mar 2005 02:08:26 PM |
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In article <5fW_d.44495$5T6.21450@bignews4.bellsouth.net>,
wxpprofessional@msn.com says...
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca60d45522ff20d98c38f@news.uni-berlin.de...
In article <pan.2005.03.19.01.36.43.325237@nycap.rr.com>,
keegan@nycap.rr.com says...
Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls
Why doesn't the guy simply request those records from the woman involved
(presuming the women can get legal access to their own personal,
confidential medical records)... ? If they wish those records to be made
public and give their pernmission for this, there should be no problem.
Good idea.
I think there is room for progress in doing so.
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
You are the one claiming crime... not the women whose confidentail
medical records are under discussion. I'm sure that if *they* feel a
crime has been committed against *them* they will discuss the matter
with the police in the normal way... and still keep their confidentail
medical; records confidential.
Should we supboena *your* confidential medical records and make them
public just because someone else has an axe to grind that is not5hing to
do with you in the first place? If not, why not?
Concealing evidence is like refusing to testify, like harboring criminals,
protecting them.
You could start by showing that the women whose records are under
discussion have committed a crime... can you? If so, what was their
crime?
If they *haven't* committed a crime (which seems more likely) then what
right has anyone to their confidentail medical records?
There are statutes which override medical confidentiality.
Eminent Domain to protect our people overrides special interest criminal
acts.
Doesn't sound like this Kline person has any concern for the women whose
confidentiality and privacy he/she is proposing to breach for his/her
own supposed personal gain!
*****.
You want your underage daughter dragged into porno and then having abortions
in a La Quinta?
You want to show how another woman's confidential medical records would
make the slightest difference to whether or not my non-existent daughter
was into porn?
Somehow I doubt you can! ;-))
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
19 Mar 2005 12:46:32 PM |
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Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 09:10:56 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
Refusing to turn over the records is more reason to suspect them of crimes.
PERIOD!
The refusal to turn over the records is more reason to obtain a warrant.
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| User: "Pat Winstanley" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 02:26:10 PM |
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In article <sig%d.37640$6g7.29520@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
wxpprofessional@msn.com says...
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
Ask the women involved if they are willing to have their confidential
medical records placed in the public domain.
Simple.
By the way, a refusal by a woman does NOT imply that she has committed a
crime or that any medical facility treating her has committed a crime by
so doing... it simply implies that she values her privacy and wishes her
confidential medical records to remain confidential.
Would you like to have *your* confidential medical records forcibly
placed in the public domain just because some fanatic or kook imagines
that your doctor has given you illegal medical treatment?
When you prove that a crime has been committed (and you need more than
just imagination for that), THEN you will have more reasonable grounds
for requesting that another person's privacy be invaded. And even then,
you shouldn't be invading the privacy of a person who hasn't (and isn't
suspected of) commiting a crime. Just because their doctor might have
committed a crime doesn't give you any moral or ethical grounds for
breaking the innocent person's confidentiality.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 12:37:49 PM |
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Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
First you show that there was a crime. In this country you do not get
to pry into people's affairs just because you think they might have
done something wrong.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Pr0r3p" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
25 Mar 2005 08:33:46 AM |
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Johnny wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to
remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that
confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
Sorry, the law doesn't work like you want it to. YOU have to provide
enough evidence to convince a judge to issue a warrant that results in
the records being turned over. YOU can't demand that the records be
turned over so that you can go on a fishing expidition looking for
crimes - there has to be evidence of a crime BEFORE you get the
records.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
They're legally protected documents. There is no obligation to turn
them over. Some people aren't as happy about having their rights
violated as you would be.
Refusing to turn over the records is more reason to suspect them of
crimes.
PERIOD!
Only in your mind. A judge would laugh you out of a courtroom if this
is the only evidence you have when you go requesting a warrant for
records.
The refusal to turn over the records is more reason to obtain a
warrant.
Nope. The law states otherwise. You lose.
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| User: "Frank Dwyer" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 10:00:35 AM |
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Johnny wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
Refusing to turn over the records is more reason to suspect them of crimes.
PERIOD!
The refusal to turn over the records is more reason to obtain a warrant.
You can't violate the rights of a citizen in an effort to determine if
SOMEONE ELSE committed a crime.
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 10:29:36 AM |
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"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:D6h%d.1173$hg.1154@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
Refusing to turn over the records is more reason to suspect them of
crimes.
PERIOD!
The refusal to turn over the records is more reason to obtain a warrant.
You can't violate the rights of a citizen in an effort to determine if
SOMEONE ELSE committed a crime.
No violation of the rights of the people in this.
The Fourth Amendment isn't there to protect criminal activity.
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| User: "Pat Winstanley" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 02:34:41 PM |
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In article <dsh%d.37657$6g7.1465@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
wxpprofessional@msn.com says...
"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:D6h%d.1173$hg.1154@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
Refusing to turn over the records is more reason to suspect them of
crimes.
PERIOD!
The refusal to turn over the records is more reason to obtain a warrant.
You can't violate the rights of a citizen in an effort to determine if
SOMEONE ELSE committed a crime.
No violation of the rights of the people in this.
The Fourth Amendment isn't there to protect criminal activity.
What crimes are the *women* (ie. the patients) alleged to have
committed?
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 12:38:46 PM |
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Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
You can't violate the rights of a citizen in an effort to determine if
SOMEONE ELSE committed a crime.
No violation of the rights of the people in this.
The Fourth Amendment isn't there to protect criminal activity.
It's there to protect people's rights. And unless you can show that
there was a crime, you do not get to pry into people's affairs.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 12:12:39 PM |
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Johnny wrote:
"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:D6h%d.1173$hg.1154@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to
remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that
confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
Refusing to turn over the records is more reason to suspect them
of
crimes.
PERIOD!
The refusal to turn over the records is more reason to obtain a
warrant.
You can't violate the rights of a citizen in an effort to determine
if
SOMEONE ELSE committed a crime.
No violation of the rights of the people in this.
Yes, there is. The AG is violating people's rights to privacy by
breaking their Fourth Amendment right protecting them from unreasonable
search and seizure. Unless the AG can provide sufficient reason to
suspect that a crime has been committed and that these named people's
records will provide evidence supporting that crime or to help to solve
it, there attempt to get those records is an example of unreasonable
search and seizure.
The Fourth Amendment isn't there to protect criminal activity.
However, there is no criminal activity in evidence necessitating the
need to search people's medical files. And since it is against federal
law (HIPAA, to me exact) for medical providers and clinics to let those
records be released to others without the patients' permissions and
without a valid subpoena, they are protecting both themselves and their
patients by following the law.
An attorney general on a fishing expedition is not a valid reason, and
he is encouraging others to break the law by doing so. Why should he
think that he can get those records when multiple courts slapped
Ashcroft down for trying the exact same thing?
You have not shown that any criminal activity is even suspected against
or associated with these people that the AG wants to get medical
records about. Therefore, there is no reason that he should have them.
And the clinics are in the right and upholding the law.
Mark Sebree
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| User: "Frank Dwyer" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 04:12:26 PM |
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Johnny wrote:
"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:D6h%d.1173$hg.1154@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
Refusing to turn over the records is more reason to suspect them of
crimes.
PERIOD!
The refusal to turn over the records is more reason to obtain a warrant.
You can't violate the rights of a citizen in an effort to determine if
SOMEONE ELSE committed a crime.
No violation of the rights of the people in this.
The Fourth Amendment isn't there to protect criminal activity.
You can't violate the rights of a citizen in an effort to determine if
SOMEONE ELSE committed a crime.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 12:04:27 PM |
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On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 11:29:36 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<dsh%d.37657$6g7.1465@bignews1.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:D6h%d.1173$hg.1154@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
Refusing to turn over the records is more reason to suspect them of
crimes.
PERIOD!
The refusal to turn over the records is more reason to obtain a warrant.
You can't violate the rights of a citizen in an effort to determine if
SOMEONE ELSE committed a crime.
No violation of the rights of the people in this.
The Fourth Amendment isn't there to protect criminal activity.
It cannot be ignored for any reason.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 09:28:11 AM |
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On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:10:56 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<sig%d.37640$6g7.29520@bignews1.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
Refusing to turn over the records is more reason to suspect them of crimes.
PERIOD!
The refusal to turn over the records is more reason to obtain a warrant.
Refusal to comply with an illegal order is not evidence of any guilt.
If there is a legal order to turn them over it must be done.
Otherwise any requests can and should be ignored.
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 09:34:19 AM |
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"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:gg5r31lmr1cek316ba6voqqq9vf8jojtkj@4ax.com...
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:10:56 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<sig%d.37640$6g7.29520@bignews1.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that
confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
Refusing to turn over the records is more reason to suspect them of
crimes.
PERIOD!
The refusal to turn over the records is more reason to obtain a warrant.
Refusal to comply with an illegal order is not evidence of any guilt.
The order is an ORDER.
It is NOT illegal.
If there is a legal order to turn them over it must be done.
Turn them over and let's put an end to the dispute.
Otherwise expect more resistance and mroe dissatisfaction.
Your agenda is unreasonable, insufficient, and quite annoying.
Turn over the records, or expect more bad things to happen to the USA.
Otherwise any requests can and should be ignored.
At that point, the people who refuse to comply with the order are subject to
prosecution.
LOL!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, but that is the law, too.
Disobeying a Court Order places persons at risk of incarceration.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
20 Mar 2005 12:04:00 PM |
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On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:34:19 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<nEg%d.37647$6g7.20956@bignews1.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:gg5r31lmr1cek316ba6voqqq9vf8jojtkj@4ax.com...
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:10:56 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<sig%d.37640$6g7.29520@bignews1.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:d1hs27$i71$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Johnny <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that
confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Show that there was a crime.
Turn over the records then.
If there were no crimes then turn them over.
Refusing to turn over the records is more reason to suspect them of
crimes.
PERIOD!
The refusal to turn over the records is more reason to obtain a warrant.
Refusal to comply with an illegal order is not evidence of any guilt.
The order is an ORDER.
It is NOT illegal.
Only if issued by a court or upheld by a court.
If there is a legal order to turn them over it must be done.
Turn them over and let's put an end to the dispute.
Only if the order to do so is legal.
Otherwise expect more resistance and mroe dissatisfaction.
Your agenda is unreasonable, insufficient, and quite annoying.
Turn over the records, or expect more bad things to happen to the USA.
That sounds like a threat to me.
Otherwise any requests can and should be ignored.
At that point, the people who refuse to comply with the order are subject to
prosecution.
Only if the order is legal. If it is a request or not a court
supported order it can be ignored.
LOL!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, but that is the law, too.
Disobeying a Court Order places persons at risk of incarceration.
.
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| User: "Frank Dwyer" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
19 Mar 2005 08:13:48 AM |
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Johnny wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca60d45522ff20d98c38f@news.uni-berlin.de...
In article <pan.2005.03.19.01.36.43.325237@nycap.rr.com>,
keegan@nycap.rr.com says...
Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls
Why doesn't the guy simply request those records from the woman involved
(presuming the women can get legal access to their own personal,
confidential medical records)... ? If they wish those records to be made
public and give their pernmission for this, there should be no problem.
Good idea.
I think there is room for progress in doing so.
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Concealing evidence is like refusing to testify, like harboring criminals,
protecting them.
There are statutes which override medical confidentiality.
Eminent Domain to protect our people overrides special interest criminal
acts.
The AG needs to specifically identify the crimes committed and exactly
whose records he wants to examine for evidence of the crimes. He can't
sift through everyone's medical records looking for a crime. That's an
egregious rights violation.
Hopefully, not only will his request be shot down by the courts, but his
blatent disregard for the Constitution will result in his ouster.
.
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
22 Mar 2005 02:36:28 PM |
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"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:wsW_d.1071$hg.1050@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca60d45522ff20d98c38f@news.uni-berlin.de...
In article <pan.2005.03.19.01.36.43.325237@nycap.rr.com>,
keegan@nycap.rr.com says...
Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls
Why doesn't the guy simply request those records from the woman involved
(presuming the women can get legal access to their own personal,
confidential medical records)... ? If they wish those records to be made
public and give their pernmission for this, there should be no problem.
Good idea.
I think there is room for progress in doing so.
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Concealing evidence is like refusing to testify, like harboring
criminals, protecting them.
There are statutes which override medical confidentiality.
Eminent Domain to protect our people overrides special interest criminal
acts.
The AG needs to specifically identify the crimes committed and exactly
whose records he wants to examine for evidence of the crimes. He can't
sift through everyone's medical records looking for a crime.
Why are you aiding criminals?
That's an egregious rights violation.
To protect cirminals is an egregious violation of the law.
.
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| User: "Patrick Lee Humphrey" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
22 Mar 2005 10:41:21 PM |
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"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> writes:
"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:wsW_d.1071$hg.1050@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca60d45522ff20d98c38f@news.uni-berlin.de...
In article <pan.2005.03.19.01.36.43.325237@nycap.rr.com>,
keegan@nycap.rr.com says...
Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls
Why doesn't the guy simply request those records from the woman involved
(presuming the women can get legal access to their own personal,
confidential medical records)... ? If they wish those records to be made
public and give their pernmission for this, there should be no problem.
Good idea.
I think there is room for progress in doing so.
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Concealing evidence is like refusing to testify, like harboring
criminals, protecting them.
There are statutes which override medical confidentiality.
Eminent Domain to protect our people overrides special interest criminal
acts.
The AG needs to specifically identify the crimes committed and exactly
whose records he wants to examine for evidence of the crimes. He can't
sift through everyone's medical records looking for a crime.
Why are you aiding criminals?
He's not. He's stating what the Kansas AG needs to do to obey the law (which
he's supposed to uphold). Why are you adovcating he ignore the law he's sworn
to uphold?
That's an egregious rights violation.
To protect cirminals is an egregious violation of the law.
So, Perry Mason, how many court cases have YOU won?
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Manitoba 2, Houston 0 (March 20)
NEXT GAME: Wednesday, March 23 vs. Utah, 7:05
.
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| User: "Pat Winstanley" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
23 Mar 2005 02:33:15 PM |
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In article <wf%%d.43669$6g7.4308@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
wxpprofessional@msn.com says...
The AG needs to specifically identify the crimes committed and exactly
whose records he wants to examine for evidence of the crimes. He can't
sift through everyone's medical records looking for a crime.
Why are you aiding criminals?
What crimes have the women (whose medical records are requested/demanded
by someone other than the woman or the woman's medical team) committed?
What are they alleged to have committed?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
24 Mar 2005 10:48:56 PM |
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Johnny wrote:
"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:wsW_d.1071$hg.1050@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca60d45522ff20d98c38f@news.uni-berlin.de...
In article <pan.2005.03.19.01.36.43.325237@nycap.rr.com>,
keegan@nycap.rr.com says...
Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls
Why doesn't the guy simply request those records from the woman
involved
(presuming the women can get legal access to their own personal,
confidential medical records)... ? If they wish those records to
be made
public and give their pernmission for this, there should be no
problem.
Good idea.
I think there is room for progress in doing so.
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that
confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Concealing evidence is like refusing to testify, like harboring
criminals, protecting them.
There are statutes which override medical confidentiality.
Eminent Domain to protect our people overrides special interest
criminal
acts.
The AG needs to specifically identify the crimes committed and
exactly
whose records he wants to examine for evidence of the crimes. He
can't
sift through everyone's medical records looking for a crime.
Why are you aiding criminals?
That's an egregious rights violation.
To protect cirminals is an egregious violation of the law.
This is rich.
Do you realize that you're condemning Rush Limbaugh's defense in his
Florida drug trial?
The prosecuter in that case wants to subpeona Limbaugh's medical
records to look for evidence that Limbauch was engaged in doctor
shopping.
Limbaugh, along with the ACLU, is fighting that subpeona, saying that
it is unconstitutionl to review private medical record to see if a
crime has been comitted.
When a crime is known to have been comitted, it's permissable to access
private records for proof.
But in the Limbaugh case, there is no evidence that a crime has been
comitted.
While he is known to have had a drug habbit, there isn't any evidence,
except perhaps in his medical records, that he was engaged in doctor
shopping.
Limbaugh's arguement is that the state can't subpeona private record to
search for evidence that a crime has been comitted, only to find
details of a crime that is known to have been comitted.
I wonder what Rush would have to say about the Kansas dispute....
.
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
23 Mar 2005 07:31:59 PM |
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Johnny wrote:
"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:wsW_d.1071$hg.1050@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca60d45522ff20d98c38f@news.uni-berlin.de...
In article <pan.2005.03.19.01.36.43.325237@nycap.rr.com>,
keegan@nycap.rr.com says...
Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls
Why doesn't the guy simply request those records from the woman
involved
(presuming the women can get legal access to their own personal,
confidential medical records)... ? If they wish those records to
be made
public and give their pernmission for this, there should be no
problem.
Good idea.
I think there is room for progress in doing so.
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that
confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Concealing evidence is like refusing to testify, like harboring
criminals, protecting them.
There are statutes which override medical confidentiality.
Eminent Domain to protect our people overrides special interest
criminal
acts.
The AG needs to specifically identify the crimes committed and
exactly
whose records he wants to examine for evidence of the crimes. He
can't
sift through everyone's medical records looking for a crime.
Why are you aiding criminals?
He's not. He is advocating that the AG obey the law that he is
supposed to uphold.
That's an egregious rights violation.
To protect cirminals is an egregious violation of the law.
What criminals? You have never shown that any crime has been committed
that requires those medical records. And if the clinics did hand them
over without a subpoena, then the clinics would be breaking federal
law. The HIPAA regulations, in fact. Therefore, by denying the AG his
fishing expedition, the clinics are upholding the law on several
fronts.
You, and the AG, are trying to get those clinics to break the law, as
well as violate their professional ethics by not protecting their
patients medical records and privacy. If you want the clinics to turn
over medical records, you have to be able to show that a crime has been
committed that the records will support or provide evidence about, and
you must be able to name the specific people that you want records of.
Neither you nor the AG has done this, and therefore the clinics are
upholding the law by denying him those medical records that he wants to
see without a subpoena.
Mark Sebree
.
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
23 Mar 2005 10:02:49 PM |
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"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1111627918.983048.106280@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Johnny wrote:
"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:wsW_d.1071$hg.1050@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca60d45522ff20d98c38f@news.uni-berlin.de...
In article <pan.2005.03.19.01.36.43.325237@nycap.rr.com>,
keegan@nycap.rr.com says...
Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls
Why doesn't the guy simply request those records from the woman
involved
(presuming the women can get legal access to their own personal,
confidential medical records)... ? If they wish those records to
be made
public and give their pernmission for this, there should be no
problem.
Good idea.
I think there is room for progress in doing so.
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that
confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Concealing evidence is like refusing to testify, like harboring
criminals, protecting them.
There are statutes which override medical confidentiality.
Eminent Domain to protect our people overrides special interest
criminal
acts.
The AG needs to specifically identify the crimes committed and
exactly
whose records he wants to examine for evidence of the crimes. He
can't
sift through everyone's medical records looking for a crime.
Why are you aiding criminals?
He's not. He is advocating that the AG obey the law that he is
supposed to uphold.
Laws are not supposed to be there to shield criminal activity.
Woe unto the USA since the criminal justice practice is shielding criminal
activity from prosecution.
Rebelliosu losers like you will be blamed in the future.
.
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
|
| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
23 Mar 2005 10:17:43 PM |
|
|
Johnny wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1111627918.983048.106280@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Johnny wrote:
"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:wsW_d.1071$hg.1050@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca60d45522ff20d98c38f@news.uni-berlin.de...
In article <pan.2005.03.19.01.36.43.325237@nycap.rr.com>,
keegan@nycap.rr.com says...
Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls
Why doesn't the guy simply request those records from the woman
involved
(presuming the women can get legal access to their own
personal,
confidential medical records)... ? If they wish those records
to
be made
public and give their pernmission for this, there should be no
problem.
Good idea.
I think there is room for progress in doing so.
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to
remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that
confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Concealing evidence is like refusing to testify, like harboring
criminals, protecting them.
There are statutes which override medical confidentiality.
Eminent Domain to protect our people overrides special interest
criminal
acts.
The AG needs to specifically identify the crimes committed and
exactly
whose records he wants to examine for evidence of the crimes. He
can't
sift through everyone's medical records looking for a crime.
Why are you aiding criminals?
He's not. He is advocating that the AG obey the law that he is
supposed to uphold.
Laws are not supposed to be there to shield criminal activity.
That is why they are preventing the AG from abusing his power. The
clinics are following federal law, just like they are supposed to.
Woe unto the USA since the criminal justice practice is shielding
criminal
activity from prosecution.
It isn't. The law is protecting the clinics from the criminal abuse of
power that the Ag wants to practice.
Rebelliosu losers like you will be blamed in the future.
I seriously doubt it. It is more likely that hateful people like
yourself will be seen as the bane of our present society. And you have
yet to show that I am at all "rebellious". I have been arguing for
rights, liberty, and freedom, which are the best traditions of this
country. That is hardly rebellious.
And I still have not seen you give any crime that anyone has committed
which requires the clinics to hand over their medical records.
Apparently, the AG has not been able to come up with one either, since
he has not been able to get a subpoena from a judge.
Mark Sebree
.
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
23 Mar 2005 11:35:15 PM |
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"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1111637863.044953.124450@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Johnny wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1111627918.983048.106280@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Johnny wrote:
"Frank Dwyer" <fdwyer@XcitlinkX.net> wrote in message
news:wsW_d.1071$hg.1050@news01.roc.ny...
Johnny wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <boredofspam2004@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca60d45522ff20d98c38f@news.uni-berlin.de...
In article <pan.2005.03.19.01.36.43.325237@nycap.rr.com>,
keegan@nycap.rr.com says...
Kline's attempts to obtain the unedited medical records of 90
women and girls
Why doesn't the guy simply request those records from the woman
involved
(presuming the women can get legal access to their own
personal,
confidential medical records)... ? If they wish those records
to
be made
public and give their pernmission for this, there should be no
problem.
Good idea.
I think there is room for progress in doing so.
If the woman would prefer their personal medical records to
remain
confidential then what right has anyone to breach that
confidentiality?
Hiding crimes does not give a right to confidentiality.
Concealing evidence is like refusing to testify, like harboring
criminals, protecting them.
There are statutes which override medical confidentiality.
Eminent Domain to protect our people overrides special interest
criminal
acts.
The AG needs to specifically identify the crimes committed and
exactly
whose records he wants to examine for evidence of the crimes. He
can't
sift through everyone's medical records looking for a crime.
Why are you aiding criminals?
He's not. He is advocating that the AG obey the law that he is
supposed to uphold.
Laws are not supposed to be there to shield criminal activity.
That is why they are preventing the AG from abusing his power. The
clinics are following federal law, just like they are supposed to.
They are shielding crimes.
Privacy statutes are not supposed to protect criminal activities.
Woe unto the USA since the criminal justice practice is shielding
criminal
activity from prosecution.
It isn't.
*****.
The law is protecting the clinics from the criminal abuse of
power that the Ag wants to practice.
*****.
They are shielding criminals from prosecution.
Rebelliosu losers like you will be blamed in the future.
I seriously doubt it.
I don't.
It is more likely that hateful people like
yourself will be seen as the bane of our present society.
You are the hate filed criminal's ally.
And you have
yet to show that I am at all "rebellious".
You are rebelling against justice.
I have been arguing for
rights, liberty, and freedom, which are the best traditions of this
country.
You're arguing?
LOL!!
That is hardly rebellious.
You are very rebellious, against life itself.
And I still have not seen you give any crime that anyone has committed
which requires the clinics to hand over their medical records.
There is reasonable suspicion and probable cause.
Apparently, the AG has not been able to come up with one either, since
he has not been able to get a subpoena from a judge.
So, we know the judge to be an ally of criminals.
.
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| User: "Pat Winstanley" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas Attorney General Accused of Violating Gag Order |
24 Mar 2005 12:08:40 PM |
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In article <wes0e.50977$6g7.27866@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
wxpprofessional@msn.com says...
They are shielding crimes.
Detail the alleged crimes, and the which (named) women who are current
or past patients of the clinic has committed the said crimes.
What is the nature of the crimes these women are supposed to have
committed that you feel justified in nosing into their private,
confidential medical records?
Shall we have a look at your personal and confidential records to make
sure you have committed a crime?
.
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