| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"TerryG" |
| Date: |
31 May 2004 08:38:42 AM |
| Object: |
Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
How many ways can the left wing liberals say, "because I said so".
Apparently not enough to keep liberal talk radio on the air. I just
hope they spend every last nickel they have.
Don't you just love the concluding quote from Al Franken at the end of
the following article: ""Imagine how we're going to do when we know
what we're doing". Well left wing liberals so seldom know what they
are doing about anything, why should talk radio be any different? How
they're running their feeble attempt at syndicated radio is exactly
how they run everything in their lives. Can you imagine these people
running the country? "It's a little fuzzy to me exactly who's in
charge.'' Yeh, right !!!!!!
Read on and enjoy, my fellow conservatives out there.
Office Politics Give Liberal Radio a Rocky Start
By JACQUES STEINBERG
ven by the chaotic standards of a new media company, Air America
Radio's first two months of broadcasting have been convulsive.
The fledgling talk-radio network has replaced five top executives,
been taken off the air in two of its top three markets and lost
several crucial producers. By late April, current and former
executives said last week, the company was perilously close to running
out of money. It has since received an infusion of cash, though it has
not disclosed how much or from whom.
The roiling in Air America's front office has undercut its continuing
assurances that it has the financing and leadership to survive past
the presidential election in November, in pursuit of its goal of
establishing a permanent liberal counterpart to Rush Limbaugh and his
radio cohort on the right.
In a sign that the privately held company's financial woes have not
fully abated, Al Franken, the network's best-known star, said in an
interview last week that he had agreed not to draw a salary, however
temporarily, making him "an involuntary investor.''
"We had some bad management,'' Mr. Franken said. "Then we got some
good management.''
Still, Mr. Franken, his tongue only partly in cheek, added, "It's a
little fuzzy to me exactly who's in charge.''
The turmoil has shed light on the network's corporate culture, laying
bare a mismatched collection of managers and investors, including
Democratic Party fund-raisers, Internet entrepreneurs and radio
veterans who, as it turned out, did not get along especially well.
Even as the network was finding an audience with its blend of humor
and commentary, many of the principals' business relationships were
dissolving in a flurry of charges and countercharges. The most serious
concerned how much money Air America actually had on hand when it went
on the air on March 31.
In early March, the network's chief executive, Mark Walsh, said that
the company had raised more than $20 million, enough to keep it
broadcasting for months, if not years, before making a profit. At the
time, Mr. Walsh said that the network's primary backers included Evan
M. Cohen, a venture capitalist who was the network's chairman, and Rex
Sorensen, a business partner of Mr. Cohen's who was the chairman of
Progress Media, the parent company of Air America.
But in an interview on Friday, Mr. Walsh said: "I was misled about
that number.'' Mr. Walsh refused to say who had misled him, but he
said that he had resigned in April because "the company wasn't
transparent'' and "I was unable to decipher how it was being
operated.''
Less than a month later, Mr. Cohen and Mr. Sorensen, who had
previously operated radio stations together in Guam and Saipan,
resigned under pressure from the company's other investors. David
Goodfriend, who served as general counsel and later as acting chief
operating officer of Air America, resigned about a week ago, having
done his best, he said, to hold the company together in the wake of
the departures of Mr. Cohen, Mr. Sorensen and Mr. Walsh. (Separately,
Dave Logan, executive vice president for programming, also left, in
late April.)
Jon Sinton, the president of Air America and one of the few top
executives who remains from the day it went on the air, underscored
Mr. Walsh's comments by saying, in a separate interview, that he, too,
had been misled about the company's resources and that a cash crunch
had ensued as a result.
"Financing wasn't as available for operational issues as we'd thought
it was,'' he said. Reached on Friday, Mr. Cohen declined to comment on
the state of the company's finances under his watch.
Despite the intrigue concerning its management - and the abrupt
pulling of its programming last month from stations in Chicago and Los
Angeles, in a contract dispute - there are early indications that,
where it can be heard, Air America is actually drawing listeners.
WLIB-AM in New York City, one of 13 stations that carry at least part
of Air America's 16 hours of original programming each day, even
appears to be holding its own with WABC-AM, the New York City station
and talk radio powerhouse that is Mr. Limbaugh's flagship.
For example, among listeners from 25 and 54, whom advertisers covet,
the network estimates it drew an average listener share (roughly a
percentage of listeners) of 3.4 on WLIB in April, from 10 a.m. and 3
p.m. on weekdays, according to the company's extrapolation of figures
provided by Arbitron for the three months ended in April. (Arbitron,
which does not provide ratings in monthly increments, said the
network's methodology appeared sound, although such figures were too
raw to translate to numbers of listeners.)
By contrast, according to Air America's figures, WABC-AM drew an
average share of 3.2 during the same period in April for the same age
group. That time period includes the three hours in which Mr. Limbaugh
was pitted head to head against Mr. Franken.
Phil Boyce, the program director of WABC , cautioned against drawing
conclusions from preliminary data. "If they end up doing that well
when the final number is out, which is two more months, I'll give them
a congratulations," Mr. Boyce said.
While the network is awaiting the release of similar figures from
Arbitron for other cities, KPOJ-AM, the Clear Channel station that
carries its programming in Portland, Ore., informed Air America
executives by an e-mail message in late April that its ratings
appeared to have tripled last month, according to the station's
informal survey. (A station executive, Mary Lou Gunn, did not return a
telephone message left at her office on Friday.)
The network, which is also carried on the satellite radio providers XM
and Sirius, has found an audience on the Internet. In its first week,
listeners clicked on the audio programming on the Air America Web site
more than two million times, according to RealNetworks, the digital
media provider.
"It's clear the audience is there,'' Mr. Franken said.
The conventional wisdom in the radio industry had been that, unlike
the conservatives who dominate commercial talk radio, liberals could
not entice and hold listeners.
"This shows there's an appetite out there,'' said Tom Taylor, editor
of Inside Radio, an industry newsletter whose publisher is owned by
Clear Channel. "There's a good chance they'll right the ship
businesswise and keep going forward.''
In addition to Mr. Franken, the Air America lineup includes Janeane
Garofalo, an actress and comedian, and Lizz Winstead, a former head
writer of "The Daily Show'' on Comedy Central.
Air America's stumble outside the studio in its early weeks was partly
a function of the ambitious task it had assigned itself. While Mr.
Limbaugh quickly found a niche on AM radio beginning in the late
1980's - he is now heard on more than 600 stations - he began
syndicating his program at a time when AM radio was thought to be
dying, thus presenting him little competition.
Now, in an era of media consolidation, AM and FM stations alike are
thriving. Few are for sale (Air America had initially hoped to buy
five, but has yet to buy one), and few have enough air time available
for lease or barter to accommodate Air America's block of programming.
But interviews with more than a dozen people currently or formerly
affiliated with Air America made clear that the network had been
hobbled by the failure of its early principals - some of whom had been
drawn to the venture by ideology, others for business reasons - to
forge common ground.
The idea for a liberal talk-radio network was first hatched by Sheldon
and Anita Drobny, venture capitalists from the Chicago area who had a
lot of experience raising money for the Democratic Party but no real
radio expertise. They were led to Mr. Sinton, who has 30 years
experience in the radio business, and Mr. Franken, who has made a
cottage industry of writing best-selling books that skewer the right.
In Air America's current incarnation, Mr. Sinton, the president,
reports to the network's new chief executive, Doug Kreeger, an early
investor whose entrepreneurial efforts have included founding a chain
of outerwear stores (Kreeger & Sons) and investing in a New York
restaurant (City Bakery).
For chief operating officer, the company has selected Carl Ginsburg, a
former news producer at NBC and CBS. Ms. Drobny is its chairwoman, Mr.
Sinton said.
Mr. Sinton said that the company was seeking to expand the number of
stations carrying its programming - which includes Burlington, Vt.;
West Palm Beach, Fla.; and Sacramento - to new markets in Colorado
Springs, Santa Cruz, Calif., and Reno, Nev. It is also seeking new
outlets in Chicago and Los Angeles, having settled its contractual
dispute with the owner of the stations where it had first leased air
time.
Mr. Sinton and Mr. Franken refused to say how much money the network
had now, but said they had received assurances that the network would
have no problem staying on the air through November, and beyond.
"No one is promising things they can't promise,'' Mr. Franken said.
"But it appears to me that from the other people that are stepping up,
the financing will be in place.'' He added: "Imagine how we're going
to do when we know what we're doing.''
.
|
|
| User: "Death" |
|
| Title: Re: Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
07 Jun 2004 09:06:48 PM |
|
|
"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
message
-
Well, you know how to use a concordancem good for you,
But in none of your citations is HOMOSEXUALITY mentioned, not one.
The bible never says anyone took a *****.
Tell me, do you think no one took a ***** back then?
.
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| User: "Susan C. Mitchell" |
|
| Title: Re: Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
17 Jun 2004 06:43:54 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:06:48 -0500, "Death" <Death@yourdoor.net> wrote:
"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
message
-
Well, you know how to use a concordancem good for you,
But in none of your citations is HOMOSEXUALITY mentioned, not one.
The bible never says anyone took a *****.
Tell me, do you think no one took a ***** back then?
Judges 3:21-22. "And Ehud put forth his left hand, and took the
dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly: And the
haft also went in after the blade; and the fat closed upon the blade,
so that he could not draw the dagger out of his belly; and the dirt
came out."
Deuteronomy 23:12-13. "Thou shalt have a place also without the camp,
whither thou shalt go forth abroad. And thou shalt have a paddle upon
thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou
shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh
from thee."
Think globally, act locally.
Susan
--
=============== Remove what you find annoying in my address ==============
"Gadfly is what they call you when you are no longer | Seditious libel
dangerous. I much prefer troublemaker, malcontent, | for fun and
desperado." -- Harlan Ellison | profit
.
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| User: "Brent Norman" |
|
| Title: Re: Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
17 Jun 2004 08:15:16 PM |
|
|
"Susan C. Mitchell" <susancm@earthannoyancelink.net> wrote in message
news:5ca4d01imglvg3d5u8pqs12braon0m16d5@4ax.com...
Deuteronomy 23:12-13. "Thou shalt have a place also without the camp,
whither thou shalt go forth abroad. And thou shalt have a paddle upon
thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou
shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh
from thee."
Heeheehee, everyone I know seems to violate that. Because of Deut.
23:12-13,
toilets should be outlawed!
.
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|
|
| User: "Chris" |
|
| Title: Re: Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
08 Jun 2004 05:38:38 PM |
|
|
"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706041929310001@h-68-165-56-160.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
In article <AR0xc.37803$lL1.21444@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
wrote:
-"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
-message
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706040907440001@h-68-164-228-1.chcgilgm.dyna
mic.covad.net...
-> In article <_iRwc.31993$lL1.22796@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
-wrote:
->
-> -"GOOD RIDDANCE on Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!"
-> -<xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
-> -news:40d4c034.22293348@netnews.mchsi.com...
-> -> On 6 Jun 2004 17:31:16 -0700,
-> -> Moronic Bigot, "Dawn" wrote:
-> -> > Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> (GOOD RIDDANCE on
-> -> > Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!) wrote:
-> ->
-> ->
-> -> > I see your posts are getting a bit shorter.
-> ->
-> -> They are precisely as long or as short as they need to be
-> -> in otder to expose the degrees of mental retardation of the
-> -> sociopathic bigots like you that they address.
-> ->
-> -> <Mindless drivel flushed. About ALL she's any good at spewing.>
-> ->
-> -> > Give my best to Esmeralda.
-> ->
-> -> Who in the hell is "Esmerelda?"
-> ->
-> -> I'd say that your are LOSING it... except that you make it so
-> -> very obvious that you already LOST it a *long* time ago, loon.
-> ->
-> ->
-> -> -- Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com>
-> ->
-> -> (REAL name and e-mail address, lest any bigot wrongly
-> -> think I'm hiding behind an a alias. The "alias," above,
-> -> is designed to be a visible MESSAGE, each time I post.)
-> ->
-> ->
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
-> ->
-> -> INSIGHT on our Warmonger-in-Thief ---
-> ->
-> ->
-http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/dishonestdubya.html
-> ->
-> ->
-> -> AND...
-> ->
-> -> http://www.blackboxvoting.com/
-> ->
-> ->
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
-> ->
-> -> ALSO worth a look:
-> ->
-> ->
-> -http://anon.newmediamill.speedera.net/anon.newmediamill/pledge_acc/ind
ex.
-html
-> -
-> -I might stand corrected, but according to the Bible homosexuality
caused
-the
-> -downfall of a nation.
->
->
-> You are about to stand corrected.
->
->
-> NOWHERE ub the Bible does it say that "homosexuality caused the
downfall
-> of a nation."
-
-"2 Peter 2
-6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to
ashes,
-and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;"
-
-"Jude 1
-7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave
-themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an
example
-of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
-
-"Luke 17
-29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and
-destroyed them all."
-
-"Zephaniah 2
-9 Therefore, as surely as I live,"
-declares the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel,
-"surely Moab will become like Sodom,
-the Ammonites like Gomorrah-
-a place of weeds and salt pits,
-a wasteland forever.
-The remnant of my people will plunder them;
-the survivors of my nation will inherit their land."
-
-"Amos 4
-11 "I overthrew some of you
-as I [1] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
-You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
-yet you have not returned to me,"
-declares the LORD . "
-
-"Jeremiah 50
-40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah
-along with their neighboring towns,"
-declares the LORD ,
-"so no one will live there;
-no man will dwell in it."
-
-"Isaiah 13
-19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
-the glory of the Babylonians' [1] pride,
-will be overthrown by God
-like Sodom and Gomorrah."
-
-"Genesis 13
-10 Lot looked up and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan was well
-watered, like the garden of the LORD , like the land of Egypt, toward
Zoar.
-(This was before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.)"
-
-"Genesis 13
-13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the
-LORD ."
-
-"Genesis 19
-24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah-from
the
-LORD out of the heavens."
-
-"Deuteronomy 29
-23 The whole land will be a burning waste of salt and sulfur-nothing
-planted, nothing sprouting, no vegetation growing on it. It will be like
the
-destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD
-overthrew in fierce anger."
-
-"Deuteronomy 32
-32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom
-and from the fields of Gomorrah.
-Their grapes are filled with poison,
-and their clusters with bitterness."
-
-"Isaiah 1
-9 Unless the LORD Almighty
-had left us some survivors,
-we would have become like Sodom,
-we would have been like Gomorrah."
-
-"Isaiah 3
-9 The look on their faces testifies against them;
-they parade their sin like Sodom;
-they do not hide it.
-Woe to them!
-They have brought disaster upon themselves."
-
Well, you know how to use a concordancem good for you,
But in none of your citations is HOMOSEXUALITY mentioned, not one.
Genesis 19
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which
came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
None.
And every single one is YANKED out if its context,
-> ->
-> -> And... here's what happens to people like you & me:
-> ->
-> -> http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/21/antiwar.soldier.ap/index.html
-> ->
-> -> However, the same rules don't apply to the "Elite:"
-> ->
-> -> www.awolbush.com
-> -
-> -Bush was NOT awol.
->
-> If, as has been stated by at least one of his commanding officers he
did
-> not report for duty, than he was AWOL>
-
-Show me the charge; and no frivolous statements from some commanding
officer
-please.
Frivolius statement from a commanding officer?
Is that what you think if the US Military?
And you cons claim liberals hate the Military?
As for charges..when has the ruling class un tge USA ever been trreated
the SANE as the working man/woman?
-
->
->
-> -
-> ->
-> ->
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
->
-> Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
-> http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
->
-> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
-> http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
->
-> My latest Poll
-> Who would Jesus vote for?
-> http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
->
->
-> My Yahoo Group
-> http://Ninure.tk
->
-> My Online Diary
-> http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-> -
-> Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
-> http://www.MCCchurch.org
->
-> To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My latest Poll
Who would Jesus vote for?
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
|
| Title: Re: Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
09 Jun 2004 07:23:22 AM |
|
|
In article <serxc.5480$fZ1.5208@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com> wrote:
-"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
-message
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706041929310001@h-68-165-56-160.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
-> In article <AR0xc.37803$lL1.21444@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
-wrote:
->
-> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
-> -message
-> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706040907440001@h-68-164-228-1.chcgilgm.dyna
-mic.covad.net...
-> -> In article <_iRwc.31993$lL1.22796@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
-> -wrote:
-> ->
-> -> -"GOOD RIDDANCE on Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!"
-> -> -<xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
-> -> -news:40d4c034.22293348@netnews.mchsi.com...
-> -> -> On 6 Jun 2004 17:31:16 -0700,
-> -> -> Moronic Bigot, "Dawn" wrote:
-> -> -> > Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> (GOOD RIDDANCE on
-> -> -> > Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!) wrote:
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -> > I see your posts are getting a bit shorter.
-> -> ->
-> -> -> They are precisely as long or as short as they need to be
-> -> -> in otder to expose the degrees of mental retardation of the
-> -> -> sociopathic bigots like you that they address.
-> -> ->
-> -> -> <Mindless drivel flushed. About ALL she's any good at spewing.>
-> -> ->
-> -> -> > Give my best to Esmeralda.
-> -> ->
-> -> -> Who in the hell is "Esmerelda?"
-> -> ->
-> -> -> I'd say that your are LOSING it... except that you make it so
-> -> -> very obvious that you already LOST it a *long* time ago, loon.
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -> -- Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com>
-> -> ->
-> -> -> (REAL name and e-mail address, lest any bigot wrongly
-> -> -> think I'm hiding behind an a alias. The "alias," above,
-> -> -> is designed to be a visible MESSAGE, each time I post.)
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
-> -> ->
-> -> -> INSIGHT on our Warmonger-in-Thief ---
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/dishonestdubya.html
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -> AND...
-> -> ->
-> -> -> http://www.blackboxvoting.com/
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
-> -> ->
-> -> -> ALSO worth a look:
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -http://anon.newmediamill.speedera.net/anon.newmediamill/pledge_acc/ind
-ex.
-> -html
-> -> -
-> -> -I might stand corrected, but according to the Bible homosexuality
-caused
-> -the
-> -> -downfall of a nation.
-> ->
-> ->
-> -> You are about to stand corrected.
-> ->
-> ->
-> -> NOWHERE ub the Bible does it say that "homosexuality caused the
-downfall
-> -> of a nation."
-> -
-> -"2 Peter 2
-> -6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to
-ashes,
-> -and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;"
-> -
-> -"Jude 1
-> -7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave
-> -themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an
-example
-> -of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
-> -
-> -"Luke 17
-> -29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and
-> -destroyed them all."
-> -
-> -"Zephaniah 2
-> -9 Therefore, as surely as I live,"
-> -declares the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel,
-> -"surely Moab will become like Sodom,
-> -the Ammonites like Gomorrah-
-> -a place of weeds and salt pits,
-> -a wasteland forever.
-> -The remnant of my people will plunder them;
-> -the survivors of my nation will inherit their land."
-> -
-> -"Amos 4
-> -11 "I overthrew some of you
-> -as I [1] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
-> -You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
-> -yet you have not returned to me,"
-> -declares the LORD . "
-> -
-> -"Jeremiah 50
-> -40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah
-> -along with their neighboring towns,"
-> -declares the LORD ,
-> -"so no one will live there;
-> -no man will dwell in it."
-> -
-> -"Isaiah 13
-> -19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
-> -the glory of the Babylonians' [1] pride,
-> -will be overthrown by God
-> -like Sodom and Gomorrah."
-> -
-> -"Genesis 13
-> -10 Lot looked up and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan was well
-> -watered, like the garden of the LORD , like the land of Egypt, toward
-Zoar.
-> -(This was before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.)"
-> -
-> -"Genesis 13
-> -13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the
-> -LORD ."
-> -
-> -"Genesis 19
-> -24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah-from
-the
-> -LORD out of the heavens."
-> -
-> -"Deuteronomy 29
-> -23 The whole land will be a burning waste of salt and sulfur-nothing
-> -planted, nothing sprouting, no vegetation growing on it. It will be like
-the
-> -destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD
-> -overthrew in fierce anger."
-> -
-> -"Deuteronomy 32
-> -32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom
-> -and from the fields of Gomorrah.
-> -Their grapes are filled with poison,
-> -and their clusters with bitterness."
-> -
-> -"Isaiah 1
-> -9 Unless the LORD Almighty
-> -had left us some survivors,
-> -we would have become like Sodom,
-> -we would have been like Gomorrah."
-> -
-> -"Isaiah 3
-> -9 The look on their faces testifies against them;
-> -they parade their sin like Sodom;
-> -they do not hide it.
-> -Woe to them!
-> -They have brought disaster upon themselves."
-> -
-> Well, you know how to use a concordancem good for you,
->
-> But in none of your citations is HOMOSEXUALITY mentioned, not one.
-
-Genesis 19
-5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which
-came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
-
->
-
Sorry, HOMOSEXUALITY is still not referrenced in thqat verse.....rape
perhaps, but NOT homosexuality.
"There's another Old Testament passage that is relevant. The story is
found in Judges 19:14-28. It bears a striking resemblance to the Sodom
story -- a traveler arrives at the city (in this case, Gilbeah). There he
meets an old man who is, like Lot, a resident alien. The old man warns the
traveler that he should not stay in the town square, and he extends the
hand of hospitality in accordance with Holy law, inviting the traveler to
share his abode for the night. But the men of the city surround the old
man's house and demand that the traveler be sent out so "that we may know
him" (there's that "yadha" again). The old man refuses, but offers his
virgin daughter and his concubine to the mob instead. When the crowd
refuses the offer, the old man throws his concubine outside as a
diversion, whereupon the "base fellows" in the mob rape and abuse her all
night, leaving her dying at the threshhold. When the Israelites learn of
the abuse of the concubine, they rise up against Gilbeah and, with God's
help, destroy the city.
Here we have an instance almost identical to Sodom, in which a city is
destroyed following inhospitality to strangers, and a clear case of rape.
Except this time it was a heterosexual rape. Yet no one uses this story to
imply God's condemnation of heterosexuality in general. It is specious,
then, to suggest that the story of Sodom is instructional with regard to
homosexuality in general.
Those who insist that Sodom was destroyed for homosexuality are denying
the very Bible they claim to revere, and attempting to push a laden camel
through the eye of a needle. They are required to make five outrageous
leaps of faith: (1) homosexual love is equal to rape; (2) "yadha" meant
homosexual acts only once or twice and something else 953 times; (3) all
of the other references to Sodom's sins contained in the Bible are in
error, incomplete, or obfuscatory; (4) the strict codes regarding
hospitality and the safety of travelers were immaterial; and (5) the
concubine of the man of Gilbeah was a male.
(Copyright 1994, Deacon Maccubbin; permission for reprinting
electronically hereby granted. Authors e-mail address:
deacon.maccubbin@his.com)
/s/ Deacon Maccubbin
="
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My latest Poll
Who would Jesus vote for?
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
|
|
|
| User: "Chris" |
|
| Title: Re: Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
09 Jun 2004 10:08:22 AM |
|
|
"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-0906040737590001@h-68-164-15-240.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
In article <serxc.5480$fZ1.5208@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
wrote:
-"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
-message
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706041929310001@h-68-165-56-160.chcgilgm.dyn
amic.covad.net...
-> In article <AR0xc.37803$lL1.21444@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
-wrote:
->
-> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote
in
-> -message
-> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706040907440001@h-68-164-228-1.chcgilgm.d
yna
-mic.covad.net...
-> -> In article <_iRwc.31993$lL1.22796@fed1read03>, "Chris"
<reddd@juno.com>
-> -wrote:
-> ->
-> -> -"GOOD RIDDANCE on Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W.
Bush!"
-> -> -<xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
-> -> -news:40d4c034.22293348@netnews.mchsi.com...
-> -> -> On 6 Jun 2004 17:31:16 -0700,
-> -> -> Moronic Bigot, "Dawn" wrote:
-> -> -> > Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> (GOOD RIDDANCE on
-> -> -> > Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!) wrote:
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -> > I see your posts are getting a bit shorter.
-> -> ->
-> -> -> They are precisely as long or as short as they need to be
-> -> -> in otder to expose the degrees of mental retardation of the
-> -> -> sociopathic bigots like you that they address.
-> -> ->
-> -> -> <Mindless drivel flushed. About ALL she's any good at spewing.>
-> -> ->
-> -> -> > Give my best to Esmeralda.
-> -> ->
-> -> -> Who in the hell is "Esmerelda?"
-> -> ->
-> -> -> I'd say that your are LOSING it... except that you make it so
-> -> -> very obvious that you already LOST it a *long* time ago, loon.
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -> -- Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com>
-> -> ->
-> -> -> (REAL name and e-mail address, lest any bigot wrongly
-> -> -> think I'm hiding behind an a alias. The "alias,"
above,
-> -> -> is designed to be a visible MESSAGE, each time I
post.)
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
-> -> ->
-> -> -> INSIGHT on our Warmonger-in-Thief ---
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/dishonestdubya.ht
ml
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -> AND...
-> -> ->
-> -> -> http://www.blackboxvoting.com/
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
-> -> ->
-> -> -> ALSO worth a look:
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -http://anon.newmediamill.speedera.net/anon.newmediamill/pledge_acc/
ind
-ex.
-> -html
-> -> -
-> -> -I might stand corrected, but according to the Bible homosexuality
-caused
-> -the
-> -> -downfall of a nation.
-> ->
-> ->
-> -> You are about to stand corrected.
-> ->
-> ->
-> -> NOWHERE ub the Bible does it say that "homosexuality caused the
-downfall
-> -> of a nation."
-> -
-> -"2 Peter 2
-> -6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to
-ashes,
-> -and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;"
-> -
-> -"Jude 1
-> -7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave
-> -themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an
-example
-> -of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
-> -
-> -"Luke 17
-> -29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven
and
-> -destroyed them all."
-> -
-> -"Zephaniah 2
-> -9 Therefore, as surely as I live,"
-> -declares the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel,
-> -"surely Moab will become like Sodom,
-> -the Ammonites like Gomorrah-
-> -a place of weeds and salt pits,
-> -a wasteland forever.
-> -The remnant of my people will plunder them;
-> -the survivors of my nation will inherit their land."
-> -
-> -"Amos 4
-> -11 "I overthrew some of you
-> -as I [1] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
-> -You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
-> -yet you have not returned to me,"
-> -declares the LORD . "
-> -
-> -"Jeremiah 50
-> -40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah
-> -along with their neighboring towns,"
-> -declares the LORD ,
-> -"so no one will live there;
-> -no man will dwell in it."
-> -
-> -"Isaiah 13
-> -19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
-> -the glory of the Babylonians' [1] pride,
-> -will be overthrown by God
-> -like Sodom and Gomorrah."
-> -
-> -"Genesis 13
-> -10 Lot looked up and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan was well
-> -watered, like the garden of the LORD , like the land of Egypt, toward
-Zoar.
-> -(This was before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.)"
-> -
-> -"Genesis 13
-> -13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against
the
-> -LORD ."
-> -
-> -"Genesis 19
-> -24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah-from
-the
-> -LORD out of the heavens."
-> -
-> -"Deuteronomy 29
-> -23 The whole land will be a burning waste of salt and sulfur-nothing
-> -planted, nothing sprouting, no vegetation growing on it. It will be
like
-the
-> -destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD
-> -overthrew in fierce anger."
-> -
-> -"Deuteronomy 32
-> -32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom
-> -and from the fields of Gomorrah.
-> -Their grapes are filled with poison,
-> -and their clusters with bitterness."
-> -
-> -"Isaiah 1
-> -9 Unless the LORD Almighty
-> -had left us some survivors,
-> -we would have become like Sodom,
-> -we would have been like Gomorrah."
-> -
-> -"Isaiah 3
-> -9 The look on their faces testifies against them;
-> -they parade their sin like Sodom;
-> -they do not hide it.
-> -Woe to them!
-> -They have brought disaster upon themselves."
-> -
-> Well, you know how to use a concordancem good for you,
->
-> But in none of your citations is HOMOSEXUALITY mentioned, not one.
-
-Genesis 19
-5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which
-came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know
them.
-
->
-
Sorry, HOMOSEXUALITY is still not referrenced in thqat verse.....rape
perhaps,
HETEROsexual rape?
but NOT homosexuality.
"There's another Old Testament passage that is relevant. The story is
found in Judges 19:14-28. It bears a striking resemblance to the Sodom
story -- a traveler arrives at the city (in this case, Gilbeah). There he
meets an old man who is, like Lot, a resident alien. The old man warns the
traveler that he should not stay in the town square, and he extends the
hand of hospitality in accordance with Holy law, inviting the traveler to
share his abode for the night. But the men of the city surround the old
man's house and demand that the traveler be sent out so "that we may know
him" (there's that "yadha" again). The old man refuses, but offers his
virgin daughter and his concubine to the mob instead. When the crowd
refuses the offer, the old man throws his concubine outside as a
diversion, whereupon the "base fellows" in the mob rape and abuse her all
night, leaving her dying at the threshhold. When the Israelites learn of
the abuse of the concubine, they rise up against Gilbeah and, with God's
help, destroy the city.
Here we have an instance almost identical to Sodom, in which a city is
destroyed following inhospitality to strangers, and a clear case of rape.
Except this time it was a heterosexual rape. Yet no one uses this story to
imply God's condemnation of heterosexuality in general. It is specious,
then, to suggest that the story of Sodom is instructional with regard to
homosexuality in general.
Those who insist that Sodom was destroyed for homosexuality are denying
the very Bible they claim to revere, and attempting to push a laden camel
through the eye of a needle. They are required to make five outrageous
leaps of faith: (1) homosexual love is equal to rape; (2) "yadha" meant
homosexual acts only once or twice and something else 953 times; (3) all
of the other references to Sodom's sins contained in the Bible are in
error, incomplete, or obfuscatory; (4) the strict codes regarding
hospitality and the safety of travelers were immaterial; and (5) the
concubine of the man of Gilbeah was a male.
(Copyright 1994, Deacon Maccubbin; permission for reprinting
electronically hereby granted. Authors e-mail address:
deacon.maccubbin@his.com)
/s/ Deacon Maccubbin
="
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My latest Poll
Who would Jesus vote for?
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
|
| Title: Re: Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
09 Jun 2004 11:03:39 AM |
|
|
In article <pKFxc.7006$fZ1.4248@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com> wrote:
-"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
-message
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-0906040737590001@h-68-164-15-240.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
-> In article <serxc.5480$fZ1.5208@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
-wrote:
->
-> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
-> -message
-> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706041929310001@h-68-165-56-160.chcgilgm.dyn
-amic.covad.net...
-> -> In article <AR0xc.37803$lL1.21444@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
-> -wrote:
-> ->
-> -> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote
-in
-> -> -message
-> -> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706040907440001@h-68-164-228-1.chcgilgm.d
-yna
-> -mic.covad.net...
-> -> -> In article <_iRwc.31993$lL1.22796@fed1read03>, "Chris"
-<reddd@juno.com>
-> -> -wrote:
-> -> ->
-> -> -> -"GOOD RIDDANCE on Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W.
-Bush!"
-> -> -> -<xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
-> -> -> -news:40d4c034.22293348@netnews.mchsi.com...
-> -> -> -> On 6 Jun 2004 17:31:16 -0700,
-> -> -> -> Moronic Bigot, "Dawn" wrote:
-> -> -> -> > Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> (GOOD RIDDANCE on
-> -> -> -> > Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!) wrote:
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> > I see your posts are getting a bit shorter.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> They are precisely as long or as short as they need to be
-> -> -> -> in otder to expose the degrees of mental retardation of the
-> -> -> -> sociopathic bigots like you that they address.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> <Mindless drivel flushed. About ALL she's any good at spewing.>
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> > Give my best to Esmeralda.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> Who in the hell is "Esmerelda?"
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> I'd say that your are LOSING it... except that you make it so
-> -> -> -> very obvious that you already LOST it a *long* time ago, loon.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -- Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com>
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> (REAL name and e-mail address, lest any bigot wrongly
-> -> -> -> think I'm hiding behind an a alias. The "alias,"
-above,
-> -> -> -> is designed to be a visible MESSAGE, each time I
-post.)
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> INSIGHT on our Warmonger-in-Thief ---
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/dishonestdubya.ht
-ml
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> AND...
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> http://www.blackboxvoting.com/
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ALSO worth a look:
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -http://anon.newmediamill.speedera.net/anon.newmediamill/pledge_acc/
-ind
-> -ex.
-> -> -html
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -I might stand corrected, but according to the Bible homosexuality
-> -caused
-> -> -the
-> -> -> -downfall of a nation.
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -> You are about to stand corrected.
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -> NOWHERE ub the Bible does it say that "homosexuality caused the
-> -downfall
-> -> -> of a nation."
-> -> -
-> -> -"2 Peter 2
-> -> -6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to
-> -ashes,
-> -> -and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;"
-> -> -
-> -> -"Jude 1
-> -> -7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave
-> -> -themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an
-> -example
-> -> -of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Luke 17
-> -> -29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven
-and
-> -> -destroyed them all."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Zephaniah 2
-> -> -9 Therefore, as surely as I live,"
-> -> -declares the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel,
-> -> -"surely Moab will become like Sodom,
-> -> -the Ammonites like Gomorrah-
-> -> -a place of weeds and salt pits,
-> -> -a wasteland forever.
-> -> -The remnant of my people will plunder them;
-> -> -the survivors of my nation will inherit their land."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Amos 4
-> -> -11 "I overthrew some of you
-> -> -as I [1] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
-> -> -You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
-> -> -yet you have not returned to me,"
-> -> -declares the LORD . "
-> -> -
-> -> -"Jeremiah 50
-> -> -40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah
-> -> -along with their neighboring towns,"
-> -> -declares the LORD ,
-> -> -"so no one will live there;
-> -> -no man will dwell in it."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Isaiah 13
-> -> -19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
-> -> -the glory of the Babylonians' [1] pride,
-> -> -will be overthrown by God
-> -> -like Sodom and Gomorrah."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Genesis 13
-> -> -10 Lot looked up and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan was well
-> -> -watered, like the garden of the LORD , like the land of Egypt, toward
-> -Zoar.
-> -> -(This was before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.)"
-> -> -
-> -> -"Genesis 13
-> -> -13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against
-the
-> -> -LORD ."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Genesis 19
-> -> -24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah-from
-> -the
-> -> -LORD out of the heavens."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Deuteronomy 29
-> -> -23 The whole land will be a burning waste of salt and sulfur-nothing
-> -> -planted, nothing sprouting, no vegetation growing on it. It will be
-like
-> -the
-> -> -destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD
-> -> -overthrew in fierce anger."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Deuteronomy 32
-> -> -32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom
-> -> -and from the fields of Gomorrah.
-> -> -Their grapes are filled with poison,
-> -> -and their clusters with bitterness."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Isaiah 1
-> -> -9 Unless the LORD Almighty
-> -> -had left us some survivors,
-> -> -we would have become like Sodom,
-> -> -we would have been like Gomorrah."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Isaiah 3
-> -> -9 The look on their faces testifies against them;
-> -> -they parade their sin like Sodom;
-> -> -they do not hide it.
-> -> -Woe to them!
-> -> -They have brought disaster upon themselves."
-> -> -
-> -> Well, you know how to use a concordancem good for you,
-> ->
-> -> But in none of your citations is HOMOSEXUALITY mentioned, not one.
-> -
-> -Genesis 19
-> -5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which
-> -came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know
-them.
-> -
-> ->
-> -
->
-> Sorry, HOMOSEXUALITY is still not referrenced in thqat verse.....rape
-> perhaps,
-
-HETEROsexual rape?
Rape is rape.
That's why Lot did not blonk an eye at the concept of offering his virgin
daughters to the crowd to be raped.....
And why the story in Judges 19 is relevant as a comparison.
And no doubt why you choose to ignore it.
-
-> but NOT homosexuality.
->
-> "There's another Old Testament passage that is relevant. The story is
-> found in Judges 19:14-28. It bears a striking resemblance to the Sodom
-> story -- a traveler arrives at the city (in this case, Gilbeah). There he
-> meets an old man who is, like Lot, a resident alien. The old man warns the
-> traveler that he should not stay in the town square, and he extends the
-> hand of hospitality in accordance with Holy law, inviting the traveler to
-> share his abode for the night. But the men of the city surround the old
-> man's house and demand that the traveler be sent out so "that we may know
-> him" (there's that "yadha" again). The old man refuses, but offers his
-> virgin daughter and his concubine to the mob instead. When the crowd
-> refuses the offer, the old man throws his concubine outside as a
-> diversion, whereupon the "base fellows" in the mob rape and abuse her all
-> night, leaving her dying at the threshhold. When the Israelites learn of
-> the abuse of the concubine, they rise up against Gilbeah and, with God's
-> help, destroy the city.
->
-> Here we have an instance almost identical to Sodom, in which a city is
-> destroyed following inhospitality to strangers, and a clear case of rape.
-> Except this time it was a heterosexual rape. Yet no one uses this story to
-> imply God's condemnation of heterosexuality in general. It is specious,
-> then, to suggest that the story of Sodom is instructional with regard to
-> homosexuality in general.
->
-> Those who insist that Sodom was destroyed for homosexuality are denying
-> the very Bible they claim to revere, and attempting to push a laden camel
-> through the eye of a needle. They are required to make five outrageous
-> leaps of faith: (1) homosexual love is equal to rape; (2) "yadha" meant
-> homosexual acts only once or twice and something else 953 times; (3) all
-> of the other references to Sodom's sins contained in the Bible are in
-> error, incomplete, or obfuscatory; (4) the strict codes regarding
-> hospitality and the safety of travelers were immaterial; and (5) the
-> concubine of the man of Gilbeah was a male.
->
-> (Copyright 1994, Deacon Maccubbin; permission for reprinting
-> electronically hereby granted. Authors e-mail address:
-> deacon.maccubbin@his.com)
->
-> /s/ Deacon Maccubbin
-> ="
->
-> Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
-> http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
->
-> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
-> http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
->
-> My latest Poll
-> Who would Jesus vote for?
-> http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
->
->
-> My Yahoo Group
-> http://Ninure.tk
->
-> My Online Diary
-> http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-> -
-> Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
-> http://www.MCCchurch.org
->
-> To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My latest Poll
Who would Jesus vote for?
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
|
|
|
| User: "Chris" |
|
| Title: Re: Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
09 Jun 2004 03:43:19 PM |
|
|
"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-0906041118160001@h-68-165-56-91.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
In article <pKFxc.7006$fZ1.4248@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
wrote:
-"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
-message
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-0906040737590001@h-68-164-15-240.chcgilgm.dyn
amic.covad.net...
-> In article <serxc.5480$fZ1.5208@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
-wrote:
->
-> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote
in
-> -message
-> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706041929310001@h-68-165-56-160.chcgilgm.
dyn
-amic.covad.net...
-> -> In article <AR0xc.37803$lL1.21444@fed1read03>, "Chris"
<reddd@juno.com>
-> -wrote:
-> ->
-> -> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk>
wrote
-in
-> -> -message
-> -> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706040907440001@h-68-164-228-1.chcgilg
m.d
-yna
-> -mic.covad.net...
-> -> -> In article <_iRwc.31993$lL1.22796@fed1read03>, "Chris"
-<reddd@juno.com>
-> -> -wrote:
-> -> ->
-> -> -> -"GOOD RIDDANCE on Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W.
-Bush!"
-> -> -> -<xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
-> -> -> -news:40d4c034.22293348@netnews.mchsi.com...
-> -> -> -> On 6 Jun 2004 17:31:16 -0700,
-> -> -> -> Moronic Bigot, "Dawn" wrote:
-> -> -> -> > Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> (GOOD RIDDANCE on
-> -> -> -> > Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!) wrote:
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> > I see your posts are getting a bit shorter.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> They are precisely as long or as short as they need to be
-> -> -> -> in otder to expose the degrees of mental retardation of the
-> -> -> -> sociopathic bigots like you that they address.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> <Mindless drivel flushed. About ALL she's any good at
spewing.>
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> > Give my best to Esmeralda.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> Who in the hell is "Esmerelda?"
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> I'd say that your are LOSING it... except that you make it
so
-> -> -> -> very obvious that you already LOST it a *long* time ago, loon.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -- Craig Chilton
<xanadu222@mchsi.com>
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> (REAL name and e-mail address, lest any bigot
wrongly
-> -> -> -> think I'm hiding behind an a alias. The "alias,"
-above,
-> -> -> -> is designed to be a visible MESSAGE, each time I
-post.)
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
*
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> INSIGHT on our Warmonger-in-Thief ---
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/dishonestdubya
..ht
-ml
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> AND...
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> http://www.blackboxvoting.com/
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
*
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ALSO worth a look:
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -http://anon.newmediamill.speedera.net/anon.newmediamill/pledge_a
cc/
-ind
-> -ex.
-> -> -html
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -I might stand corrected, but according to the Bible
homosexuality
-> -caused
-> -> -the
-> -> -> -downfall of a nation.
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -> You are about to stand corrected.
-> -> ->
-> -> ->
-> -> -> NOWHERE ub the Bible does it say that "homosexuality caused the
-> -downfall
-> -> -> of a nation."
-> -> -
-> -> -"2 Peter 2
-> -> -6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them
to
-> -ashes,
-> -> -and made them an example of what is going to happen to the
ungodly;"
-> -> -
-> -> -"Jude 1
-> -> -7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns
gave
-> -> -themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an
-> -example
-> -> -of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Luke 17
-> -> -29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from
heaven
-and
-> -> -destroyed them all."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Zephaniah 2
-> -> -9 Therefore, as surely as I live,"
-> -> -declares the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel,
-> -> -"surely Moab will become like Sodom,
-> -> -the Ammonites like Gomorrah-
-> -> -a place of weeds and salt pits,
-> -> -a wasteland forever.
-> -> -The remnant of my people will plunder them;
-> -> -the survivors of my nation will inherit their land."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Amos 4
-> -> -11 "I overthrew some of you
-> -> -as I [1] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
-> -> -You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
-> -> -yet you have not returned to me,"
-> -> -declares the LORD . "
-> -> -
-> -> -"Jeremiah 50
-> -> -40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah
-> -> -along with their neighboring towns,"
-> -> -declares the LORD ,
-> -> -"so no one will live there;
-> -> -no man will dwell in it."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Isaiah 13
-> -> -19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
-> -> -the glory of the Babylonians' [1] pride,
-> -> -will be overthrown by God
-> -> -like Sodom and Gomorrah."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Genesis 13
-> -> -10 Lot looked up and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan was
well
-> -> -watered, like the garden of the LORD , like the land of Egypt,
toward
-> -Zoar.
-> -> -(This was before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.)"
-> -> -
-> -> -"Genesis 13
-> -> -13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly
against
-the
-> -> -LORD ."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Genesis 19
-> -> -24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and
Gomorrah-from
-> -the
-> -> -LORD out of the heavens."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Deuteronomy 29
-> -> -23 The whole land will be a burning waste of salt and
sulfur-nothing
-> -> -planted, nothing sprouting, no vegetation growing on it. It will be
-like
-> -the
-> -> -destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the
LORD
-> -> -overthrew in fierce anger."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Deuteronomy 32
-> -> -32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom
-> -> -and from the fields of Gomorrah.
-> -> -Their grapes are filled with poison,
-> -> -and their clusters with bitterness."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Isaiah 1
-> -> -9 Unless the LORD Almighty
-> -> -had left us some survivors,
-> -> -we would have become like Sodom,
-> -> -we would have been like Gomorrah."
-> -> -
-> -> -"Isaiah 3
-> -> -9 The look on their faces testifies against them;
-> -> -they parade their sin like Sodom;
-> -> -they do not hide it.
-> -> -Woe to them!
-> -> -They have brought disaster upon themselves."
-> -> -
-> -> Well, you know how to use a concordancem good for you,
-> ->
-> -> But in none of your citations is HOMOSEXUALITY mentioned, not
one.
-> -
-> -Genesis 19
-> -5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men
which
-> -came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know
-them.
-> -
-> ->
-> -
->
-> Sorry, HOMOSEXUALITY is still not referrenced in thqat verse.....rape
-> perhaps,
-
-HETEROsexual rape?
Rape is rape.
That's why Lot did not blonk an eye at the concept of offering his virgin
daughters to the crowd to be raped.....
And why the story in Judges 19 is relevant as a comparison.
And no doubt why you choose to ignore it.
I choose to ignore it because that is NOT the issue. The issue at hand is
whether or not homosexuality is referenced in the above passage; and it is.
-
-> but NOT homosexuality.
->
-> "There's another Old Testament passage that is relevant. The story is
-> found in Judges 19:14-28. It bears a striking resemblance to the Sodom
-> story -- a traveler arrives at the city (in this case, Gilbeah). There
he
-> meets an old man who is, like Lot, a resident alien. The old man warns
the
-> traveler that he should not stay in the town square, and he extends the
-> hand of hospitality in accordance with Holy law, inviting the traveler
to
-> share his abode for the night. But the men of the city surround the old
-> man's house and demand that the traveler be sent out so "that we may
know
-> him" (there's that "yadha" again). The old man refuses, but offers his
-> virgin daughter and his concubine to the mob instead. When the crowd
-> refuses the offer, the old man throws his concubine outside as a
-> diversion, whereupon the "base fellows" in the mob rape and abuse her
all
-> night, leaving her dying at the threshhold. When the Israelites learn
of
-> the abuse of the concubine, they rise up against Gilbeah and, with
God's
-> help, destroy the city.
->
-> Here we have an instance almost identical to Sodom, in which a city is
-> destroyed following inhospitality to strangers, and a clear case of
rape.
-> Except this time it was a heterosexual rape. Yet no one uses this story
to
-> imply God's condemnation of heterosexuality in general. It is specious,
-> then, to suggest that the story of Sodom is instructional with regard
to
-> homosexuality in general.
->
-> Those who insist that Sodom was destroyed for homosexuality are denying
-> the very Bible they claim to revere, and attempting to push a laden
camel
-> through the eye of a needle. They are required to make five outrageous
-> leaps of faith: (1) homosexual love is equal to rape; (2) "yadha" meant
-> homosexual acts only once or twice and something else 953 times; (3)
all
-> of the other references to Sodom's sins contained in the Bible are in
-> error, incomplete, or obfuscatory; (4) the strict codes regarding
-> hospitality and the safety of travelers were immaterial; and (5) the
-> concubine of the man of Gilbeah was a male.
->
-> (Copyright 1994, Deacon Maccubbin; permission for reprinting
-> electronically hereby granted. Authors e-mail address:
-> deacon.maccubbin@his.com)
->
-> /s/ Deacon Maccubbin
-> ="
->
-> Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
-> http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
->
-> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
-> http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
->
-> My latest Poll
-> Who would Jesus vote for?
-> http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
->
->
-> My Yahoo Group
-> http://Ninure.tk
->
-> My Online Diary
-> http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-> -
-> Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
-> http://www.MCCchurch.org
->
-> To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My latest Poll
Who would Jesus vote for?
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
|
| Title: Re: Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
09 Jun 2004 07:27:33 PM |
|
|
In article <wEKxc.7055$fZ1.3232@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com> wrote:
-"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
-message
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-0906041118160001@h-68-165-56-91.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
-> In article <pKFxc.7006$fZ1.4248@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
-wrote:
->
-> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
-> -message
-> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0906040737590001@h-68-164-15-240.chcgilgm.dyn
-amic.covad.net...
-> -> In article <serxc.5480$fZ1.5208@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
-> -wrote:
-> ->
-> -> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote
-in
-> -> -message
-> -> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706041929310001@h-68-165-56-160.chcgilgm.
-dyn
-> -amic.covad.net...
-> -> -> In article <AR0xc.37803$lL1.21444@fed1read03>, "Chris"
-<reddd@juno.com>
-> -> -wrote:
-> -> ->
-> -> -> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk>
-wrote
-> -in
-> -> -> -message
-> -> -> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706040907440001@h-68-164-228-1.chcgilg
-m.d
-> -yna
-> -> -mic.covad.net...
-> -> -> -> In article <_iRwc.31993$lL1.22796@fed1read03>, "Chris"
-> -<reddd@juno.com>
-> -> -> -wrote:
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -"GOOD RIDDANCE on Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W.
-> -Bush!"
-> -> -> -> -<xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
-> -> -> -> -news:40d4c034.22293348@netnews.mchsi.com...
-> -> -> -> -> On 6 Jun 2004 17:31:16 -0700,
-> -> -> -> -> Moronic Bigot, "Dawn" wrote:
-> -> -> -> -> > Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> (GOOD RIDDANCE on
-> -> -> -> -> > Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!) wrote:
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> > I see your posts are getting a bit shorter.
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> They are precisely as long or as short as they need to be
-> -> -> -> -> in otder to expose the degrees of mental retardation of the
-> -> -> -> -> sociopathic bigots like you that they address.
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> <Mindless drivel flushed. About ALL she's any good at
-spewing.>
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> > Give my best to Esmeralda.
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> Who in the hell is "Esmerelda?"
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> I'd say that your are LOSING it... except that you make it
-so
-> -> -> -> -> very obvious that you already LOST it a *long* time ago, loon.
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> -- Craig Chilton
-<xanadu222@mchsi.com>
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> (REAL name and e-mail address, lest any bigot
-wrongly
-> -> -> -> -> think I'm hiding behind an a alias. The "alias,"
-> -above,
-> -> -> -> -> is designed to be a visible MESSAGE, each time I
-> -post.)
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
-*
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> INSIGHT on our Warmonger-in-Thief ---
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/dishonestdubya
-.ht
-> -ml
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> AND...
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> http://www.blackboxvoting.com/
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
-*
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> ALSO worth a look:
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -http://anon.newmediamill.speedera.net/anon.newmediamill/pledge_a
-cc/
-> -ind
-> -> -ex.
-> -> -> -html
-> -> -> -> -
-> -> -> -> -I might stand corrected, but according to the Bible
-homosexuality
-> -> -caused
-> -> -> -the
-> -> -> -> -downfall of a nation.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> You are about to stand corrected.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> NOWHERE ub the Bible does it say that "homosexuality caused the
-> -> -downfall
-> -> -> -> of a nation."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"2 Peter 2
-> -> -> -6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them
-to
-> -> -ashes,
-> -> -> -and made them an example of what is going to happen to the
-ungodly;"
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Jude 1
-> -> -> -7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns
-gave
-> -> -> -themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an
-> -> -example
-> -> -> -of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Luke 17
-> -> -> -29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from
-heaven
-> -and
-> -> -> -destroyed them all."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Zephaniah 2
-> -> -> -9 Therefore, as surely as I live,"
-> -> -> -declares the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel,
-> -> -> -"surely Moab will become like Sodom,
-> -> -> -the Ammonites like Gomorrah-
-> -> -> -a place of weeds and salt pits,
-> -> -> -a wasteland forever.
-> -> -> -The remnant of my people will plunder them;
-> -> -> -the survivors of my nation will inherit their land."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Amos 4
-> -> -> -11 "I overthrew some of you
-> -> -> -as I [1] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
-> -> -> -You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
-> -> -> -yet you have not returned to me,"
-> -> -> -declares the LORD . "
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Jeremiah 50
-> -> -> -40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah
-> -> -> -along with their neighboring towns,"
-> -> -> -declares the LORD ,
-> -> -> -"so no one will live there;
-> -> -> -no man will dwell in it."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Isaiah 13
-> -> -> -19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
-> -> -> -the glory of the Babylonians' [1] pride,
-> -> -> -will be overthrown by God
-> -> -> -like Sodom and Gomorrah."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Genesis 13
-> -> -> -10 Lot looked up and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan was
-well
-> -> -> -watered, like the garden of the LORD , like the land of Egypt,
-toward
-> -> -Zoar.
-> -> -> -(This was before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.)"
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Genesis 13
-> -> -> -13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly
-against
-> -the
-> -> -> -LORD ."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Genesis 19
-> -> -> -24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and
-Gomorrah-from
-> -> -the
-> -> -> -LORD out of the heavens."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Deuteronomy 29
-> -> -> -23 The whole land will be a burning waste of salt and
-sulfur-nothing
-> -> -> -planted, nothing sprouting, no vegetation growing on it. It will be
-> -like
-> -> -the
-> -> -> -destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the
-LORD
-> -> -> -overthrew in fierce anger."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Deuteronomy 32
-> -> -> -32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom
-> -> -> -and from the fields of Gomorrah.
-> -> -> -Their grapes are filled with poison,
-> -> -> -and their clusters with bitterness."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Isaiah 1
-> -> -> -9 Unless the LORD Almighty
-> -> -> -had left us some survivors,
-> -> -> -we would have become like Sodom,
-> -> -> -we would have been like Gomorrah."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Isaiah 3
-> -> -> -9 The look on their faces testifies against them;
-> -> -> -they parade their sin like Sodom;
-> -> -> -they do not hide it.
-> -> -> -Woe to them!
-> -> -> -They have brought disaster upon themselves."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> Well, you know how to use a concordancem good for you,
-> -> ->
-> -> -> But in none of your citations is HOMOSEXUALITY mentioned, not
-one.
-> -> -
-> -> -Genesis 19
-> -> -5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men
-which
-> -> -came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know
-> -them.
-> -> -
-> -> ->
-> -> -
-> ->
-> -> Sorry, HOMOSEXUALITY is still not referrenced in thqat verse.....rape
-> -> perhaps,
-> -
-> -HETEROsexual rape?
->
-> Rape is rape.
->
-> That's why Lot did not blonk an eye at the concept of offering his virgin
-> daughters to the crowd to be raped.....
->
-> And why the story in Judges 19 is relevant as a comparison.
->
-> And no doubt why you choose to ignore it.
-
-I choose to ignore it because that is NOT the issue. The issue at hand is
-whether or not homosexuality is referenced in the above passage; and it is.
\
No, it is not.
RAPE, pure ans simple is what is referenced there.
Nut there is point in arguing with you, sonce you onviously think that
eacj Bible verse stand srands alone and bears no relation to any other,
that the Jewish rabbis who have commented on this passage aven't a clue
what thir own language means, an that Jesus of Nazerth knew what the "sin
of Sodom" was.
Eother that, or you just another dishonest bigot.
Either way...you are a waste of my time.
->
->
-> -
-> -> but NOT homosexuality.
-> ->
-> -> "There's another Old Testament passage that is relevant. The story is
-> -> found in Judges 19:14-28. It bears a striking resemblance to the Sodom
-> -> story -- a traveler arrives at the city (in this case, Gilbeah). There
-he
-> -> meets an old man who is, like Lot, a resident alien. The old man warns
-the
-> -> traveler that he should not stay in the town square, and he extends the
-> -> hand of hospitality in accordance with Holy law, inviting the traveler
-to
-> -> share his abode for the night. But the men of the city surround the old
-> -> man's house and demand that the traveler be sent out so "that we may
-know
-> -> him" (there's that "yadha" again). The old man refuses, but offers his
-> -> virgin daughter and his concubine to the mob instead. When the crowd
-> -> refuses the offer, the old man throws his concubine outside as a
-> -> diversion, whereupon the "base fellows" in the mob rape and abuse her
-all
-> -> night, leaving her dying at the threshhold. When the Israelites learn
-of
-> -> the abuse of the concubine, they rise up against Gilbeah and, with
-God's
-> -> help, destroy the city.
-> ->
-> -> Here we have an instance almost identical to Sodom, in which a city is
-> -> destroyed following inhospitality to strangers, and a clear case of
-rape.
-> -> Except this time it was a heterosexual rape. Yet no one uses this story
-to
-> -> imply God's condemnation of heterosexuality in general. It is specious,
-> -> then, to suggest that the story of Sodom is instructional with regard
-to
-> -> homosexuality in general.
-> ->
-> -> Those who insist that Sodom was destroyed for homosexuality are denying
-> -> the very Bible they claim to revere, and attempting to push a laden
-camel
-> -> through the eye of a needle. They are required to make five outrageous
-> -> leaps of faith: (1) homosexual love is equal to rape; (2) "yadha" meant
-> -> homosexual acts only once or twice and something else 953 times; (3)
-all
-> -> of the other references to Sodom's sins contained in the Bible are in
-> -> error, incomplete, or obfuscatory; (4) the strict codes regarding
-> -> hospitality and the safety of travelers were immaterial; and (5) the
-> -> concubine of the man of Gilbeah was a male.
-> ->
-> -> (Copyright 1994, Deacon Maccubbin; permission for reprinting
-> -> electronically hereby granted. Authors e-mail address:
-> -> deacon.maccubbin@his.com)
-> ->
-> -> /s/ Deacon Maccubbin
-> -> ="
-> ->
-> -> Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
-> -> http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
-> ->
-> -> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
-> -> http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
-> ->
-> -> My latest Poll
-> -> Who would Jesus vote for?
-> -> http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
-> ->
-> ->
-> -> My Yahoo Group
-> -> http://Ninure.tk
-> ->
-> -> My Online Diary
-> -> http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-> -> -
-> -> Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
-> -> http://www.MCCchurch.org
-> ->
-> -> To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
->
-> Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
-> http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
->
-> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
-> http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
->
-> My latest Poll
-> Who would Jesus vote for?
-> http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
->
->
-> My Yahoo Group
-> http://Ninure.tk
->
-> My Online Diary
-> http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-> -
-> Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
-> http://www.MCCchurch.org
->
-> To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My latest Poll
Who would Jesus vote for?
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
|
|
|
| User: "Chris" |
|
| Title: Re: Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
09 Jun 2004 10:53:30 PM |
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"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-0906041942100001@h-68-165-60-3.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
In article <wEKxc.7055$fZ1.3232@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
wrote:
-"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
-message
-news:RainbowChristiannohate-0906041118160001@h-68-165-56-91.chcgilgm.dyna
mic.covad.net...
-> In article <pKFxc.7006$fZ1.4248@fed1read03>, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com>
-wrote:
->
-> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote
in
-> -message
-> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0906040737590001@h-68-164-15-240.chcgilgm.
dyn
-amic.covad.net...
-> -> In article <serxc.5480$fZ1.5208@fed1read03>, "Chris"
<reddd@juno.com>
-> -wrote:
-> ->
-> -> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk>
wrote
-in
-> -> -message
-> -> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706041929310001@h-68-165-56-160.chcgil
gm.
-dyn
-> -amic.covad.net...
-> -> -> In article <AR0xc.37803$lL1.21444@fed1read03>, "Chris"
-<reddd@juno.com>
-> -> -wrote:
-> -> ->
-> -> -> -"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk>
-wrote
-> -in
-> -> -> -message
-> -> -> -news:RainbowChristiannohate-0706040907440001@h-68-164-228-1.chcg
ilg
-m.d
-> -yna
-> -> -mic.covad.net...
-> -> -> -> In article <_iRwc.31993$lL1.22796@fed1read03>, "Chris"
-> -<reddd@juno.com>
-> -> -> -wrote:
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -"GOOD RIDDANCE on Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief
G.W.
-> -Bush!"
-> -> -> -> -<xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
-> -> -> -> -news:40d4c034.22293348@netnews.mchsi.com...
-> -> -> -> -> On 6 Jun 2004 17:31:16 -0700,
-> -> -> -> -> Moronic Bigot, "Dawn" wrote:
-> -> -> -> -> > Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> (GOOD RIDDANCE on
-> -> -> -> -> > Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!)
wrote:
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> > I see your posts are getting a bit shorter.
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> They are precisely as long or as short as they need to
be
-> -> -> -> -> in otder to expose the degrees of mental retardation of the
-> -> -> -> -> sociopathic bigots like you that they address.
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> <Mindless drivel flushed. About ALL she's any good at
-spewing.>
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> > Give my best to Esmeralda.
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> Who in the hell is "Esmerelda?"
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> I'd say that your are LOSING it... except that you make
it
-so
-> -> -> -> -> very obvious that you already LOST it a *long* time ago,
loon.
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> -- Craig Chilton
-<xanadu222@mchsi.com>
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> (REAL name and e-mail address, lest any bigot
-wrongly
-> -> -> -> -> think I'm hiding behind an a alias. The
"alias,"
-> -above,
-> -> -> -> -> is designed to be a visible MESSAGE, each time
I
-> -post.)
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
~*~
-*
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> INSIGHT on our Warmonger-in-Thief ---
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/dishonestdu
bya
-.ht
-> -ml
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> AND...
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> http://www.blackboxvoting.com/
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
~*~
-*
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -> ALSO worth a look:
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> -http://anon.newmediamill.speedera.net/anon.newmediamill/pledg
e_a
-cc/
-> -ind
-> -> -ex.
-> -> -> -html
-> -> -> -> -
-> -> -> -> -I might stand corrected, but according to the Bible
-homosexuality
-> -> -caused
-> -> -> -the
-> -> -> -> -downfall of a nation.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> You are about to stand corrected.
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> ->
-> -> -> -> NOWHERE ub the Bible does it say that "homosexuality caused
the
-> -> -downfall
-> -> -> -> of a nation."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"2 Peter 2
-> -> -> -6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning
them
-to
-> -> -ashes,
-> -> -> -and made them an example of what is going to happen to the
-ungodly;"
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Jude 1
-> -> -> -7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns
-gave
-> -> -> -themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as
an
-> -> -example
-> -> -> -of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Luke 17
-> -> -> -29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from
-heaven
-> -and
-> -> -> -destroyed them all."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Zephaniah 2
-> -> -> -9 Therefore, as surely as I live,"
-> -> -> -declares the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel,
-> -> -> -"surely Moab will become like Sodom,
-> -> -> -the Ammonites like Gomorrah-
-> -> -> -a place of weeds and salt pits,
-> -> -> -a wasteland forever.
-> -> -> -The remnant of my people will plunder them;
-> -> -> -the survivors of my nation will inherit their land."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Amos 4
-> -> -> -11 "I overthrew some of you
-> -> -> -as I [1] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
-> -> -> -You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
-> -> -> -yet you have not returned to me,"
-> -> -> -declares the LORD . "
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Jeremiah 50
-> -> -> -40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah
-> -> -> -along with their neighboring towns,"
-> -> -> -declares the LORD ,
-> -> -> -"so no one will live there;
-> -> -> -no man will dwell in it."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Isaiah 13
-> -> -> -19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
-> -> -> -the glory of the Babylonians' [1] pride,
-> -> -> -will be overthrown by God
-> -> -> -like Sodom and Gomorrah."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Genesis 13
-> -> -> -10 Lot looked up and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan was
-well
-> -> -> -watered, like the garden of the LORD , like the land of Egypt,
-toward
-> -> -Zoar.
-> -> -> -(This was before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.)"
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Genesis 13
-> -> -> -13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly
-against
-> -the
-> -> -> -LORD ."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Genesis 19
-> -> -> -24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and
-Gomorrah-from
-> -> -the
-> -> -> -LORD out of the heavens."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Deuteronomy 29
-> -> -> -23 The whole land will be a burning waste of salt and
-sulfur-nothing
-> -> -> -planted, nothing sprouting, no vegetation growing on it. It will
be
-> -like
-> -> -the
-> -> -> -destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the
-LORD
-> -> -> -overthrew in fierce anger."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Deuteronomy 32
-> -> -> -32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom
-> -> -> -and from the fields of Gomorrah.
-> -> -> -Their grapes are filled with poison,
-> -> -> -and their clusters with bitterness."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Isaiah 1
-> -> -> -9 Unless the LORD Almighty
-> -> -> -had left us some survivors,
-> -> -> -we would have become like Sodom,
-> -> -> -we would have been like Gomorrah."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> -"Isaiah 3
-> -> -> -9 The look on their faces testifies against them;
-> -> -> -they parade their sin like Sodom;
-> -> -> -they do not hide it.
-> -> -> -Woe to them!
-> -> -> -They have brought disaster upon themselves."
-> -> -> -
-> -> -> Well, you know how to use a concordancem good for you,
-> -> ->
-> -> -> But in none of your citations is HOMOSEXUALITY mentioned, not
-one.
-> -> -
-> -> -Genesis 19
-> -> -5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men
-which
-> -> -came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may
know
-> -them.
-> -> -
-> -> ->
-> -> -
-> ->
-> -> Sorry, HOMOSEXUALITY is still not referrenced in thqat
verse.....rape
-> -> perhaps,
-> -
-> -HETEROsexual rape?
->
-> Rape is rape.
->
-> That's why Lot did not blonk an eye at the concept of offering his
virgin
-> daughters to the crowd to be raped.....
->
-> And why the story in Judges 19 is relevant as a comparison.
->
-> And no doubt why you choose to ignore it.
-
-I choose to ignore it because that is NOT the issue. The issue at hand is
-whether or not homosexuality is referenced in the above passage; and it
is.
\
No, it is not.
RAPE, pure ans simple is what is referenced there.
Yes, the attempt of men raping other men.
Nut there is point in arguing with you, sonce you onviously think that
eacj Bible verse stand srands alone and bears no relation to any other,
Quite the contrary. And it is precisely that reason why folks like you fail
to see the actual message in many passages.
that the Jewish rabbis who have commented on this passage aven't a clue
what thir own language means, an that Jesus of Nazerth knew what the "sin
of Sodom" was.
Eother that, or you just another dishonest bigot.
Either way...you are a waste of my time.
I apologize for "wasting" your time with the truth.
->
->
-> -
-> -> but NOT homosexuality.
-> ->
-> -> "There's another Old Testament passage that is relevant. The story
is
-> -> found in Judges 19:14-28. It bears a striking resemblance to the
Sodom
-> -> story -- a traveler arrives at the city (in this case, Gilbeah).
There
-he
-> -> meets an old man who is, like Lot, a resident alien. The old man
warns
-the
-> -> traveler that he should not stay in the town square, and he extends
the
-> -> hand of hospitality in accordance with Holy law, inviting the
traveler
-to
-> -> share his abode for the night. But the men of the city surround the
old
-> -> man's house and demand that the traveler be sent out so "that we may
-know
-> -> him" (there's that "yadha" again). The old man refuses, but offers
his
-> -> virgin daughter and his concubine to the mob instead. When the crowd
-> -> refuses the offer, the old man throws his concubine outside as a
-> -> diversion, whereupon the "base fellows" in the mob rape and abuse
her
-all
-> -> night, leaving her dying at the threshhold. When the Israelites
learn
-of
-> -> the abuse of the concubine, they rise up against Gilbeah and, with
-God's
-> -> help, destroy the city.
-> ->
-> -> Here we have an instance almost identical to Sodom, in which a city
is
-> -> destroyed following inhospitality to strangers, and a clear case of
-rape.
-> -> Except this time it was a heterosexual rape. Yet no one uses this
story
-to
-> -> imply God's condemnation of heterosexuality in general. It is
specious,
-> -> then, to suggest that the story of Sodom is instructional with
regard
-to
-> -> homosexuality in general.
-> ->
-> -> Those who insist that Sodom was destroyed for homosexuality are
denying
-> -> the very Bible they claim to revere, and attempting to push a laden
-camel
-> -> through the eye of a needle. They are required to make five
outrageous
-> -> leaps of faith: (1) homosexual love is equal to rape; (2) "yadha"
meant
-> -> homosexual acts only once or twice and something else 953 times; (3)
-all
-> -> of the other references to Sodom's sins contained in the Bible are
in
-> -> error, incomplete, or obfuscatory; (4) the strict codes regarding
-> -> hospitality and the safety of travelers were immaterial; and (5) the
-> -> concubine of the man of Gilbeah was a male.
-> ->
-> -> (Copyright 1994, Deacon Maccubbin; permission for reprinting
-> -> electronically hereby granted. Authors e-mail address:
-> -> deacon.maccubbin@his.com)
-> ->
-> -> /s/ Deacon Maccubbin
-> -> ="
-> ->
-> -> Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
-> -> http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
-> ->
-> -> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
-> -> http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
-> ->
-> -> My latest Poll
-> -> Who would Jesus vote for?
-> -> http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
-> ->
-> ->
-> -> My Yahoo Group
-> -> http://Ninure.tk
-> ->
-> -> My Online Diary
-> -> http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-> -> -
-> -> Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
-> -> http://www.MCCchurch.org
-> ->
-> -> To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
->
-> Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
-> http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
->
-> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
-> http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
->
-> My latest Poll
-> Who would Jesus vote for?
-> http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
->
->
-> My Yahoo Group
-> http://Ninure.tk
->
-> My Online Diary
-> http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-> -
-> Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
-> http://www.MCCchurch.org
->
-> To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My latest Poll
Who would Jesus vote for?
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Left Wing Liberals Can't give It Away |
09 Jun 2004 08:06:00 AM |
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On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 15:38:38 -0700, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com> wrote:
Genesis 19
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which
came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
The men of the town wanted to know who Lot brought into town. They had strick
rules about who was in their city.
"Know" does NOT mean 'sex' in the bible. . . especially in this case.
.
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