| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Papa Jack" |
| Date: |
11 Sep 2003 02:42:31 PM |
| Object: |
Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
On Wed, Sep. 10, 2003, The Kansas City Star posted an article
by Kit Wagar and Tim Hoover titled: "Missouri House Overrides
Holden's Vetoes of Abortion, Gun Bills." Go to:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/6738053.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
The Missouri House today overrode Gov. Bob Holden's vetoes
of bills that would legalize concealed weapons and mandate
a 24-hour waiting period for a woman to have an abortion.
The action sets up a showdown on both bills in the Senate.
To the cheers of abortion opponents who packed the upper
galleries, the Republican-led House easily found enough votes
to override Holden's veto of the abortion bill. Override sup-
porters needed 109 of 163 votes and got 120, with 35
members voting against an override.
Sponsored by Rep. Susan Phillips, a Kansas City Republican,
the bill would prohibit doctors from performing an abortion
unless they have consulted with the patient and discussed the
health risks and effects of an abortion 24 hours prior to the
procedure.
[...]
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Actually, many "chop shop" abortionists seldom even see
the women until they enter the "chop" room to begin the
abortion.
Much of the so-called "consulting" is done by clerks trained
only as salespersons.
.
|
|
| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
11 Sep 2003 09:00:55 PM |
|
|
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0309111142.6260c8df@posting.google.com...
On Wed, Sep. 10, 2003, The Kansas City Star posted an article
by Kit Wagar and Tim Hoover titled: "Missouri House Overrides
Holden's Vetoes of Abortion, Gun Bills." Go to:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/6738053.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
The Missouri House today overrode Gov. Bob Holden's vetoes
of bills that would legalize concealed weapons and mandate
a 24-hour waiting period for a woman to have an abortion.
The action sets up a showdown on both bills in the Senate.
To the cheers of abortion opponents who packed the upper
galleries, the Republican-led House easily found enough votes
to override Holden's veto of the abortion bill. Override sup-
porters needed 109 of 163 votes and got 120, with 35
members voting against an override.
Sponsored by Rep. Susan Phillips, a Kansas City Republican,
the bill would prohibit doctors from performing an abortion
unless they have consulted with the patient and discussed the
health risks and effects of an abortion 24 hours prior to the
procedure.
[...]
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Actually, many "chop shop" abortionists seldom even see
the women until they enter the "chop" room to begin the
abortion.
Much of the so-called "consulting" is done by clerks trained
only as salespersons.
Halfway to the truth. The consult is done by an RN. When I go to my family
doctor the initial consult is with his nurse. When I go to the dentist the
initial consult is with his nurse (who sold me three fillings and a root
canal, damn her!). What was the point here?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Papa Jack" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
12 Sep 2003 12:22:54 PM |
|
|
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:<bjr9d5$m7ona$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote:
===============================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On Wed, Sep. 10, 2003, The Kansas City Star posted an article
by Kit Wagar and Tim Hoover titled: "Missouri House Overrides
Holden's Vetoes of Abortion, Gun Bills." Go to:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/6738053.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
The Missouri House today overrode Gov. Bob Holden's vetoes
of bills that would legalize concealed weapons and mandate
a 24-hour waiting period for a woman to have an abortion.
The action sets up a showdown on both bills in the Senate.
To the cheers of abortion opponents who packed the upper
galleries, the Republican-led House easily found enough votes
to override Holden's veto of the abortion bill. Override sup-
porters needed 109 of 163 votes and got 120, with 35
members voting against an override.
Sponsored by Rep. Susan Phillips, a Kansas City Republican,
the bill would prohibit doctors from performing an abortion
unless they have consulted with the patient and discussed the
health risks and effects of an abortion 24 hours prior to the
procedure.
[...]
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Actually, many "chop shop" abortionists seldom even see
the women until they enter the "chop" room to begin the
abortion.
Much of the so-called "consulting" is done by clerks
trained only as salespersons.
===============================================================
Sex Kitten wrote:
Halfway to the truth. The consult is done by an RN. When
I go to my family doctor the initial consult is with his
nurse. When I go to the dentist the initial consult is
with his nurse (who sold me three fillings and a root
canal, damn her!). What was the point here?
===============================================================
Papa Jack explained:
Have you read Carol Everett's testamony? She was a manager
and owner of four abortion clinics in Dallas in the 70"s.
Excerpts:
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
"...This counselor is paid to be this girl's friend.
She is paid to be the authority for this girl. She
is supposed to seduce her into a friendship of sorts
to sell her the abortion. Every problem this girl
has: I don't want to tell my parents. You don't have
to tell your parents. They don't have to know. You're
old enough to come in and have it without them knowing....
...Then the two questions they ask are: Does it hurt?
Oh, no. Your uterus is a muscle, and they hold their
hand up if they're seeing them; if not, they tell them
over the phone: It's a cramp to open it; a cramp to
close it; it's a slight cramping sensation. Everybody's
had cramps; every woman in the world. So they think
that's no problem. I can stand that; I've been through
it before. And then they say: Is it a baby? No, it's a
product of conception; it's a blood clot; it's a piece
of tissue. They don't even really tell them it's a fetus,
because, you see, that almost humanizes it too much.
It's never a baby....
"...So, they lie to her. You know, if you look at abor-
tion from the face, I CANNOT TELL YOU ONE THING THAT
HAPPENS IN AN ABORTION CLINIC THAT IS NOT A LIE. They
tell the counselors, and I told the counselors, not to
rock the boat; not to answer any questions that they
didn't ask. Get them in here; the faster you can get
them in here, the easier it is on them. You concentrate
on the woman; you tell them to help her, and you
don't deal with the baby at all.
So they get this girl to come in the clinic, and many
times they just get her to come in for a pregnancy test,
and if that's the case then they greet her at the door
and they say, Oh, Linda, I'm so glad you're here. I've
been waiting for you. This girl doesn't know they have
an appointment book and each counselor has to sche-
dule their appointments an hour apart so she has plenty
of time to spend being their "friend" while they're there.
She takes them back; she does the pregnancy test; it
doesn't really matter. If there's any way they can
convince this girl she's pregnant, she's going to be
pregnant. But they go through this test anyway. She
tells her she's pregnant, and the girl might cry. She may
get upset. But they take her into a separate room; they
don't want anyone to see anyone crying in there; it's
supposed to be a great place; we're supposed to help
people in the abortion clinic.
[...]
"...Then the girl goes into this room for counseling and
they give her a 6 to 12-page form. This form is written
by an abortion attorney. Ours was written by one out of
New York, and it was written to confuse the girl to death....
"...She is taken back to the procedure room, put on the
table, and draped. Her chart is put in the door....
...because when he walks up to that door for the first
time -- if you have two or three doctors working, you
don't know which one is going to do the abortion..."
[...]
"...The doctor walks in, sees the patient for the very
first time, pats her on the leg, says, Hi, baby, how are
you? You call them "baby" so you don't have to remember
their name. And she says, Oh, I'm scared, or, I'm cold.
Never anything positive. And he doesn't really ask her
any questions. It's just get the abortion done..."
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
I particularly noted Ms. Everett's comment that:
"...I CANNOT TELL YOU ONE THING
THAT HAPPENS IN AN ABORTION
CLINIC THAT IS NOT A LIE...."
(I added the all caps for stress)
This is a woman who managed abortion clinics
and later owned abortion clinics.
.
|
|
|
| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
12 Sep 2003 03:03:44 PM |
|
|
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0309120922.6c934e5b@posting.google.com...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:<bjr9d5$m7ona$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote:
===============================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On Wed, Sep. 10, 2003, The Kansas City Star posted an article
by Kit Wagar and Tim Hoover titled: "Missouri House Overrides
Holden's Vetoes of Abortion, Gun Bills." Go to:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/6738053.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
The Missouri House today overrode Gov. Bob Holden's vetoes
of bills that would legalize concealed weapons and mandate
a 24-hour waiting period for a woman to have an abortion.
The action sets up a showdown on both bills in the Senate.
To the cheers of abortion opponents who packed the upper
galleries, the Republican-led House easily found enough votes
to override Holden's veto of the abortion bill. Override sup-
porters needed 109 of 163 votes and got 120, with 35
members voting against an override.
Sponsored by Rep. Susan Phillips, a Kansas City Republican,
the bill would prohibit doctors from performing an abortion
unless they have consulted with the patient and discussed the
health risks and effects of an abortion 24 hours prior to the
procedure.
[...]
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Actually, many "chop shop" abortionists seldom even see
the women until they enter the "chop" room to begin the
abortion.
Much of the so-called "consulting" is done by clerks
trained only as salespersons.
===============================================================
Sex Kitten wrote:
Halfway to the truth. The consult is done by an RN. When
I go to my family doctor the initial consult is with his
nurse. When I go to the dentist the initial consult is
with his nurse (who sold me three fillings and a root
canal, damn her!). What was the point here?
===============================================================
Papa Jack explained:
Have you read Carol Everett's testamony? She was a manager
and owner of four abortion clinics in Dallas in the 70"s.
Excerpts:
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
"...This counselor is paid to be this girl's friend.
She is paid to be the authority for this girl. She
is supposed to seduce her into a friendship of sorts
to sell her the abortion. Every problem this girl
has: I don't want to tell my parents. You don't have
to tell your parents. They don't have to know. You're
old enough to come in and have it without them knowing....
...Then the two questions they ask are: Does it hurt?
Oh, no. Your uterus is a muscle, and they hold their
hand up if they're seeing them; if not, they tell them
over the phone: It's a cramp to open it; a cramp to
close it; it's a slight cramping sensation. Everybody's
had cramps; every woman in the world. So they think
that's no problem. I can stand that; I've been through
it before. And then they say: Is it a baby? No, it's a
product of conception; it's a blood clot; it's a piece
of tissue. They don't even really tell them it's a fetus,
because, you see, that almost humanizes it too much.
It's never a baby....
"...So, they lie to her. You know, if you look at abor-
tion from the face, I CANNOT TELL YOU ONE THING THAT
HAPPENS IN AN ABORTION CLINIC THAT IS NOT A LIE. They
tell the counselors, and I told the counselors, not to
rock the boat; not to answer any questions that they
didn't ask. Get them in here; the faster you can get
them in here, the easier it is on them. You concentrate
on the woman; you tell them to help her, and you
don't deal with the baby at all.
So they get this girl to come in the clinic, and many
times they just get her to come in for a pregnancy test,
and if that's the case then they greet her at the door
and they say, Oh, Linda, I'm so glad you're here. I've
been waiting for you. This girl doesn't know they have
an appointment book and each counselor has to sche-
dule their appointments an hour apart so she has plenty
of time to spend being their "friend" while they're there.
She takes them back; she does the pregnancy test; it
doesn't really matter. If there's any way they can
convince this girl she's pregnant, she's going to be
pregnant. But they go through this test anyway. She
tells her she's pregnant, and the girl might cry. She may
get upset. But they take her into a separate room; they
don't want anyone to see anyone crying in there; it's
supposed to be a great place; we're supposed to help
people in the abortion clinic.
[...]
"...Then the girl goes into this room for counseling and
they give her a 6 to 12-page form. This form is written
by an abortion attorney. Ours was written by one out of
New York, and it was written to confuse the girl to death....
"...She is taken back to the procedure room, put on the
table, and draped. Her chart is put in the door....
...because when he walks up to that door for the first
time -- if you have two or three doctors working, you
don't know which one is going to do the abortion..."
[...]
"...The doctor walks in, sees the patient for the very
first time, pats her on the leg, says, Hi, baby, how are
you? You call them "baby" so you don't have to remember
their name. And she says, Oh, I'm scared, or, I'm cold.
Never anything positive. And he doesn't really ask her
any questions. It's just get the abortion done..."
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
I particularly noted Ms. Everett's comment that:
"...I CANNOT TELL YOU ONE THING
THAT HAPPENS IN AN ABORTION
CLINIC THAT IS NOT A LIE...."
(I added the all caps for stress)
This is a woman who managed abortion clinics
and later owned abortion clinics.
Have you ever been to a clinic providing abortions?
I wasn't lied to, coerced and nobody tried to be my "friend". Do you really
think a girl of any age going into one of these clinics needs to be sold on
the idea? They are going to these clinics because they do not want to be
pregnant, and the clinics offer solutions.
as to lies...
www.aclupa.org/duvall/phony.pdf
I would consider pretending to be a medical office, giving medical advice
you are not qualified to give and forcing propaganda on unsuspecting women
to be a whopper, and a dangerous one.
.
|
|
|
| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
13 Sep 2003 11:26:58 PM |
|
|
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0309131313.7be095e4@posting.google.com...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:<bjt8r6$n5mqf$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0309120922.6c934e5b@posting.google.com...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:<bjr9d5$m7ona$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote:
======================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On Wed, Sep. 10, 2003, The Kansas City Star posted an article
by Kit Wagar and Tim Hoover titled: "Missouri House Overrides
Holden's Vetoes of Abortion, Gun Bills." Go to:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/6738053.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
The Missouri House today overrode Gov. Bob Holden's vetoes
of bills that would legalize concealed weapons and mandate
a 24-hour waiting period for a woman to have an abortion.
The action sets up a showdown on both bills in the Senate.
To the cheers of abortion opponents who packed the upper
galleries, the Republican-led House easily found enough votes
to override Holden's veto of the abortion bill. Override sup-
porters needed 109 of 163 votes and got 120, with 35
members voting against an override.
Sponsored by Rep. Susan Phillips, a Kansas City Republican,
the bill would prohibit doctors from performing an abortion
unless they have consulted with the patient and discussed the
health risks and effects of an abortion 24 hours prior to the
procedure.
[...]
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Actually, many "chop shop" abortionists seldom even see
the women until they enter the "chop" room to begin the
abortion.
Much of the so-called "consulting" is done by clerks
trained only as salespersons.
===============================================================
Sex Kitten wrote:
Halfway to the truth. The consult is done by an RN. When
I go to my family doctor the initial consult is with his
nurse. When I go to the dentist the initial consult is
with his nurse (who sold me three fillings and a root
canal, damn her!). What was the point here?
===============================================================
Papa Jack explained:
Have you read Carol Everett's testamony? She was a manager
and owner of four abortion clinics in Dallas in the 70"s.
Excerpts:
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
"...This counselor is paid to be this girl's friend.
She is paid to be the authority for this girl. She
is supposed to seduce her into a friendship of sorts
to sell her the abortion. Every problem this girl
has: I don't want to tell my parents. You don't have
to tell your parents. They don't have to know. You're
old enough to come in and have it without them knowing....
...Then the two questions they ask are: Does it hurt?
Oh, no. Your uterus is a muscle, and they hold their
hand up if they're seeing them; if not, they tell them
over the phone: It's a cramp to open it; a cramp to
close it; it's a slight cramping sensation. Everybody's
had cramps; every woman in the world. So they think
that's no problem. I can stand that; I've been through
it before. And then they say: Is it a baby? No, it's a
product of conception; it's a blood clot; it's a piece
of tissue. They don't even really tell them it's a fetus,
because, you see, that almost humanizes it too much.
It's never a baby....
"...So, they lie to her. You know, if you look at abor-
tion from the face, I CANNOT TELL YOU ONE THING THAT
HAPPENS IN AN ABORTION CLINIC THAT IS NOT A LIE. They
tell the counselors, and I told the counselors, not to
rock the boat; not to answer any questions that they
didn't ask. Get them in here; the faster you can get
them in here, the easier it is on them. You concentrate
on the woman; you tell them to help her, and you
don't deal with the baby at all.
So they get this girl to come in the clinic, and many
times they just get her to come in for a pregnancy test,
and if that's the case then they greet her at the door
and they say, Oh, Linda, I'm so glad you're here. I've
been waiting for you. This girl doesn't know they have
an appointment book and each counselor has to sche-
dule their appointments an hour apart so she has plenty
of time to spend being their "friend" while they're there.
She takes them back; she does the pregnancy test; it
doesn't really matter. If there's any way they can
convince this girl she's pregnant, she's going to be
pregnant. But they go through this test anyway. She
tells her she's pregnant, and the girl might cry. She may
get upset. But they take her into a separate room; they
don't want anyone to see anyone crying in there; it's
supposed to be a great place; we're supposed to help
people in the abortion clinic.
[...]
"...Then the girl goes into this room for counseling and
they give her a 6 to 12-page form. This form is written
by an abortion attorney. Ours was written by one out of
New York, and it was written to confuse the girl to death....
"...She is taken back to the procedure room, put on the
table, and draped. Her chart is put in the door....
...because when he walks up to that door for the first
time -- if you have two or three doctors working, you
don't know which one is going to do the abortion..."
[...]
"...The doctor walks in, sees the patient for the very
first time, pats her on the leg, says, Hi, baby, how are
you? You call them "baby" so you don't have to remember
their name. And she says, Oh, I'm scared, or, I'm cold.
Never anything positive. And he doesn't really ask her
any questions. It's just get the abortion done..."
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
I particularly noted Ms. Everett's comment that:
"...I CANNOT TELL YOU ONE THING
THAT HAPPENS IN AN ABORTION
CLINIC THAT IS NOT A LIE...."
(I added the all caps for stress)
This is a woman who managed abortion clinics
and later owned abortion clinics.
===============================================================
Sex Kitten wrote:
Have you ever been to a clinic providing abortions?
I wasn't lied to, coerced and nobody tried to be my "friend". Do you
really
think a girl of any age going into one of these clinics needs to be sold
on
the idea? They are going to these clinics because they do not want to be
pregnant, and the clinics offer solutions.
===============================================================
Papa Jack commented:
Yep, I do think quite a few need to be sold on the idea.
At least that's what I've been told and read from many
who experienced the "chop shop" sales pitches.
Do you ever consider it's fairly widely accepted that
many girls/women are coerced -- either physically or
emotionally -- to go to an abortion mill by husbands,
boyfriends, or other significant people in their lives.
Significant people in their lives, yes. Nurses in a clinic- no. Wouldn't
matter to me though- either way, it should still be the woman's decision,
without regard to anyone else.
===============================================================
Sex Kitten wrote:
as to lies...
www.aclupa.org/duvall/phony.pdf
I would consider pretending to be a medical office,
giving medical advice you are not qualified to give
and forcing propaganda on unsuspecting women
to be a whopper, and a dangerous one.
===============================================================
Papa Jack commented:
I question the accuracy of your source. Go to:
http://www.aclupa.org/duvall/
"...Created in 1979, the Project is dedicated to
education and advocacy about the need for
safe, legal, and accessible reproductive health
programs. [NOTE by P.J.: This is a clear
euphemism for "abortion."]...
"Unique among pro-choice organizations, the
Duvall Project bridges the gap between aca-
demic and activist communities....
"Headquartered in Philadelphia, the Duvall
Project combines statewide advocacy with
national networking. As a member of numerous
coalitions, the Project shares activist strategies
and information in communities from Maine to
California. The Duvall Project recently merged
with the ACLU of Pennsylvania, ...
IOW, you're quoting a liberal activist organization
dedicated to working with the ACLU to foster abortions.
Well, I couldn't find a lot of anti- abortion websites investigating this. I
can drag out some of the other links if you like.
*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
***
OTOH, there is an article in the April 8, 2002, issue of
National Review titled:"On-Line "Choosing Life" By Rod Dreher
http://www.nationalreview.com/preview/preview040802.asp
"[Crisis pregnancy centers] lie about the psychological impact of
abortion," says Planned Parenthood president Gloria Feldt.
Even
worse, from the abortion-rights point of view, CPCs are getting
savvier about employing ultrasound technology to "trick" pregnant
women into having their babies. Many CPCs report that women, once
they see their babies moving in their wombs, overwhelmingly choose
to carry the pregnancy to term. Fumed one Long Island abortion
provider in the New York Times: "The bottom line is no woman is
going to want an abortion after she sees a sonogram." Well, yes.
"That was an amazing concession. I bet she bit her tongue when she
saw that quote in print," says Lorraine Gariboldi, executive direc-
tor of the Life Center of Long Island. "Look at it this way: For an
abortionist to counsel a woman about fetal development, abortion
risks, and support available to her should she want to carry the
baby to term - they'd put themselves out of business."
*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
***
Insight magazine (June 14th, Vol. 15, No.22) included an
article by Aimee Howd titled: "Choosing Life, With a Little Help.
[...]
"Whatever their diagnoses, suffering women no doubt know their
own pain best. And they are flocking to community-based
crisis-pregnancy-centers around the country -- including
1,000 centers associated with the two largest pregnancy-
center affiliations, Heartbeat and CareNet. National right
to Life estimates that 3,000 mother-helping facilities around
the nation are dedicated to providing practical compassion by
offering women alternatives to abortion.
Serrin Foster, president of Feminists for Life, is finding
common ground between such normally polarized organizations
as the conservative Heritage Foundation and the American
Civil Liberties Union. "Women deserve better than abortion,"
she explains. "We need to have people from both sides of the
debate ask what can be done systematically to eliminate the
long list of reasons that drive women to an abortion."
We do deserve better than abortion. We deserve not to have to continue an
unwanted pregnancy either. Right now those are mutually exclusive. I'm
waiting for technology to catch up. I would like to see a method developed
for simulating a womb so abortion would become unnecessary. I doubt I will
see it in my lifetime though.
("... babies in lovely clean bottles- and everything so clean, and no nasty
smells, no dirt at all- and people never lonely"...)
And quietly, one life at a time, organizations from Agees
vast Nurturing Network to tiny community helping centers are
making sure women's choices aren't limited to abortion.
CareNet's ever-growing affiliates served 200,000 women last
year. Nonna Warner, who is director of center development
for CareNet, says, "The strength of this particular movement
is far beyond politics. It is one neighbor reaching out to
another to get those needs met.
[...]
*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
***
On February 27, 2002, World Net Daily posted an article by
Allyson Smith titled: "California pregnancy centers targeted:
Abortion-rights group trains activists to 'investigate' CPCs."
[The author tried to attend the subject NARAL training
session, but was forced to leave.] Go to:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26611
___________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
On Feb. 7, NARAL's California state affiliate, the
California Abortion and Reproductive Rights
Action League held a "special training" session
on "Unmasking Fake Clinics" at the Westside
Pavilion shopping center in West Los Angeles....
[...]
Inside the information packet were a CARAL
policy report titled "Crisis Pregnancy Centers in
California: The Hidden Threat to Womens
Health," a companion "Action Kit" booklet, a list
of California CPCs, a map of Los Angeles area
CPCs, an "investigation form" containing a case
study of a Rockville, Md., CPC and a "tip sheet"
for abortion activists on "visiting" CPCs.
[...]
Included are sections titled "The Myth of the
Free Pregnancy Test," "When 'Options
Counseling' = Anti-Abortion Propaganda,"
"Youth Outreach: Scaring Teens Abstinent" and
"CPCs and the Christian Right." The report also
contains several "snapshots" of California CPCs
and a chart comparing services between CPCs
and "comprehensive clinics."
[...]
Bertolami continued, "What I've told my staff is
that if they're doing their job the way we've
trained them to, then they have nothing to worry
about. We're here to serve women, no matter
what their motivation - even if they come to us
under false pretenses."
[...]
After reviewing the CARAL documents, Richard
D. Ackerman, an attorney with the United States
Justice Foundation, said, "They ought to be
ashamed of themselves. This is obviously a
thinly veiled attempt to interfere with the
'right' of a woman to seek counseling from an
entity that doesn't think like CARAL."
[...]
*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
Papa Jack comments:
The abortion industry has repeatedly told lies about CPCs
because they cut into their profit margins.
You would prefer the lies told at the CPC's?
Fake medical advice can kill real women- I'd like to think better of you
than Dorothy, who doesn't care if the born die.
.
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| User: "Dorothy" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
14 Sep 2003 07:39:16 AM |
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"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bk0qmn$oa4cd$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0309131313.7be095e4@posting.google.com...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:<bjt8r6$n5mqf$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0309120922.6c934e5b@posting.google.com...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:<bjr9d5$m7ona$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote:
======================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On Wed, Sep. 10, 2003, The Kansas City Star posted an article
by Kit Wagar and Tim Hoover titled: "Missouri House Overrides
Holden's Vetoes of Abortion, Gun Bills." Go to:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/6738053.htm
______________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
The Missouri House today overrode Gov. Bob Holden's vetoes
of bills that would legalize concealed weapons and mandate
a 24-hour waiting period for a woman to have an abortion.
The action sets up a showdown on both bills in the Senate.
To the cheers of abortion opponents who packed the upper
galleries, the Republican-led House easily found enough votes
to override Holden's veto of the abortion bill. Override sup-
porters needed 109 of 163 votes and got 120, with 35
members voting against an override.
Sponsored by Rep. Susan Phillips, a Kansas City Republican,
the bill would prohibit doctors from performing an abortion
unless they have consulted with the patient and discussed the
health risks and effects of an abortion 24 hours prior to the
procedure.
[...]
______________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack commented:
Actually, many "chop shop" abortionists seldom even see
the women until they enter the "chop" room to begin the
abortion.
Much of the so-called "consulting" is done by clerks
trained only as salespersons.
===============================================================
Sex Kitten wrote:
Halfway to the truth. The consult is done by an RN. When
I go to my family doctor the initial consult is with his
nurse. When I go to the dentist the initial consult is
with his nurse (who sold me three fillings and a root
canal, damn her!). What was the point here?
===============================================================
Papa Jack explained:
Have you read Carol Everett's testamony? She was a manager
and owner of four abortion clinics in Dallas in the 70"s.
Excerpts:
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
"...This counselor is paid to be this girl's friend.
She is paid to be the authority for this girl. She
is supposed to seduce her into a friendship of sorts
to sell her the abortion. Every problem this girl
has: I don't want to tell my parents. You don't have
to tell your parents. They don't have to know. You're
old enough to come in and have it without them knowing....
...Then the two questions they ask are: Does it hurt?
Oh, no. Your uterus is a muscle, and they hold their
hand up if they're seeing them; if not, they tell them
over the phone: It's a cramp to open it; a cramp to
close it; it's a slight cramping sensation. Everybody's
had cramps; every woman in the world. So they think
that's no problem. I can stand that; I've been through
it before. And then they say: Is it a baby? No, it's a
product of conception; it's a blood clot; it's a piece
of tissue. They don't even really tell them it's a fetus,
because, you see, that almost humanizes it too much.
It's never a baby....
"...So, they lie to her. You know, if you look at abor-
tion from the face, I CANNOT TELL YOU ONE THING THAT
HAPPENS IN AN ABORTION CLINIC THAT IS NOT A LIE. They
tell the counselors, and I told the counselors, not to
rock the boat; not to answer any questions that they
didn't ask. Get them in here; the faster you can get
them in here, the easier it is on them. You concentrate
on the woman; you tell them to help her, and you
don't deal with the baby at all.
So they get this girl to come in the clinic, and many
times they just get her to come in for a pregnancy test,
and if that's the case then they greet her at the door
and they say, Oh, Linda, I'm so glad you're here. I've
been waiting for you. This girl doesn't know they have
an appointment book and each counselor has to sche-
dule their appointments an hour apart so she has plenty
of time to spend being their "friend" while they're there.
She takes them back; she does the pregnancy test; it
doesn't really matter. If there's any way they can
convince this girl she's pregnant, she's going to be
pregnant. But they go through this test anyway. She
tells her she's pregnant, and the girl might cry. She may
get upset. But they take her into a separate room; they
don't want anyone to see anyone crying in there; it's
supposed to be a great place; we're supposed to help
people in the abortion clinic.
[...]
"...Then the girl goes into this room for counseling and
they give her a 6 to 12-page form. This form is written
by an abortion attorney. Ours was written by one out of
New York, and it was written to confuse the girl to death....
"...She is taken back to the procedure room, put on the
table, and draped. Her chart is put in the door....
...because when he walks up to that door for the first
time -- if you have two or three doctors working, you
don't know which one is going to do the abortion..."
[...]
"...The doctor walks in, sees the patient for the very
first time, pats her on the leg, says, Hi, baby, how are
you? You call them "baby" so you don't have to remember
their name. And she says, Oh, I'm scared, or, I'm cold.
Never anything positive. And he doesn't really ask her
any questions. It's just get the abortion done..."
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
I particularly noted Ms. Everett's comment that:
"...I CANNOT TELL YOU ONE THING
THAT HAPPENS IN AN ABORTION
CLINIC THAT IS NOT A LIE...."
(I added the all caps for stress)
This is a woman who managed abortion clinics
and later owned abortion clinics.
===============================================================
Sex Kitten wrote:
Have you ever been to a clinic providing abortions?
I wasn't lied to, coerced and nobody tried to be my "friend". Do you
really
think a girl of any age going into one of these clinics needs to be
sold
on
the idea? They are going to these clinics because they do not want to
be
pregnant, and the clinics offer solutions.
===============================================================
Papa Jack commented:
Yep, I do think quite a few need to be sold on the idea.
At least that's what I've been told and read from many
who experienced the "chop shop" sales pitches.
Do you ever consider it's fairly widely accepted that
many girls/women are coerced -- either physically or
emotionally -- to go to an abortion mill by husbands,
boyfriends, or other significant people in their lives.
Significant people in their lives, yes. Nurses in a clinic- no. Wouldn't
matter to me though- either way, it should still be the woman's decision,
without regard to anyone else.
===============================================================
Sex Kitten wrote:
as to lies...
www.aclupa.org/duvall/phony.pdf
I would consider pretending to be a medical office,
giving medical advice you are not qualified to give
and forcing propaganda on unsuspecting women
to be a whopper, and a dangerous one.
===============================================================
Papa Jack commented:
I question the accuracy of your source. Go to:
http://www.aclupa.org/duvall/
"...Created in 1979, the Project is dedicated to
education and advocacy about the need for
safe, legal, and accessible reproductive health
programs. [NOTE by P.J.: This is a clear
euphemism for "abortion."]...
"Unique among pro-choice organizations, the
Duvall Project bridges the gap between aca-
demic and activist communities....
"Headquartered in Philadelphia, the Duvall
Project combines statewide advocacy with
national networking. As a member of numerous
coalitions, the Project shares activist strategies
and information in communities from Maine to
California. The Duvall Project recently merged
with the ACLU of Pennsylvania, ...
IOW, you're quoting a liberal activist organization
dedicated to working with the ACLU to foster abortions.
Well, I couldn't find a lot of anti- abortion websites investigating this.
I
can drag out some of the other links if you like.
*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
***
OTOH, there is an article in the April 8, 2002, issue of
National Review titled:"On-Line "Choosing Life" By Rod Dreher
http://www.nationalreview.com/preview/preview040802.asp
"[Crisis pregnancy centers] lie about the psychological impact of
abortion," says Planned Parenthood president Gloria Feldt.
Even
worse, from the abortion-rights point of view, CPCs are getting
savvier about employing ultrasound technology to "trick" pregnant
women into having their babies. Many CPCs report that women, once
they see their babies moving in their wombs, overwhelmingly choose
to carry the pregnancy to term. Fumed one Long Island abortion
provider in the New York Times: "The bottom line is no woman is
going to want an abortion after she sees a sonogram." Well, yes.
"That was an amazing concession. I bet she bit her tongue when she
saw that quote in print," says Lorraine Gariboldi, executive direc-
tor of the Life Center of Long Island. "Look at it this way: For an
abortionist to counsel a woman about fetal development, abortion
risks, and support available to her should she want to carry the
baby to term - they'd put themselves out of business."
*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
***
Insight magazine (June 14th, Vol. 15, No.22) included an
article by Aimee Howd titled: "Choosing Life, With a Little Help.
[...]
"Whatever their diagnoses, suffering women no doubt know their
own pain best. And they are flocking to community-based
crisis-pregnancy-centers around the country -- including
1,000 centers associated with the two largest pregnancy-
center affiliations, Heartbeat and CareNet. National right
to Life estimates that 3,000 mother-helping facilities around
the nation are dedicated to providing practical compassion by
offering women alternatives to abortion.
Serrin Foster, president of Feminists for Life, is finding
common ground between such normally polarized organizations
as the conservative Heritage Foundation and the American
Civil Liberties Union. "Women deserve better than abortion,"
she explains. "We need to have people from both sides of the
debate ask what can be done systematically to eliminate the
long list of reasons that drive women to an abortion."
We do deserve better than abortion. We deserve not to have to continue an
unwanted pregnancy either. Right now those are mutually exclusive. I'm
waiting for technology to catch up. I would like to see a method developed
for simulating a womb so abortion would become unnecessary. I doubt I will
see it in my lifetime though.
("... babies in lovely clean bottles- and everything so clean, and no
nasty
smells, no dirt at all- and people never lonely"...)
And quietly, one life at a time, organizations from Agees
vast Nurturing Network to tiny community helping centers are
making sure women's choices aren't limited to abortion.
CareNet's ever-growing affiliates served 200,000 women last
year. Nonna Warner, who is director of center development
for CareNet, says, "The strength of this particular movement
is far beyond politics. It is one neighbor reaching out to
another to get those needs met.
[...]
*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
***
On February 27, 2002, World Net Daily posted an article by
Allyson Smith titled: "California pregnancy centers targeted:
Abortion-rights group trains activists to 'investigate' CPCs."
[The author tried to attend the subject NARAL training
session, but was forced to leave.] Go to:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26611
___________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
On Feb. 7, NARAL's California state affiliate, the
California Abortion and Reproductive Rights
Action League held a "special training" session
on "Unmasking Fake Clinics" at the Westside
Pavilion shopping center in West Los Angeles....
[...]
Inside the information packet were a CARAL
policy report titled "Crisis Pregnancy Centers in
California: The Hidden Threat to Womens
Health," a companion "Action Kit" booklet, a list
of California CPCs, a map of Los Angeles area
CPCs, an "investigation form" containing a case
study of a Rockville, Md., CPC and a "tip sheet"
for abortion activists on "visiting" CPCs.
[...]
Included are sections titled "The Myth of the
Free Pregnancy Test," "When 'Options
Counseling' = Anti-Abortion Propaganda,"
"Youth Outreach: Scaring Teens Abstinent" and
"CPCs and the Christian Right." The report also
contains several "snapshots" of California CPCs
and a chart comparing services between CPCs
and "comprehensive clinics."
[...]
Bertolami continued, "What I've told my staff is
that if they're doing their job the way we've
trained them to, then they have nothing to worry
about. We're here to serve women, no matter
what their motivation - even if they come to us
under false pretenses."
[...]
After reviewing the CARAL documents, Richard
D. Ackerman, an attorney with the United States
Justice Foundation, said, "They ought to be
ashamed of themselves. This is obviously a
thinly veiled attempt to interfere with the
'right' of a woman to seek counseling from an
entity that doesn't think like CARAL."
[...]
*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
Papa Jack comments:
The abortion industry has repeatedly told lies about CPCs
because they cut into their profit margins.
You would prefer the lies told at the CPC's?
Fake medical advice can kill real women- I'd like to think better of you
than Dorothy, who doesn't care if the born die.
This kind of post is very strange. You define who is a human and then don't
care if those defined by you as unhuman die.
More than a little like the dictatorships around the who are willing to kill
off humans by the millions so that their leadership lives. Rather evil to
kill off humans by the millions to pretend to save somebody, somewhere. If
a woman is about to die, she is not going to her local abortion mill to save
her life.
.
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| User: "Krisblake" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
14 Sep 2003 07:58:05 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:39:16 GMT, "Dorothy"
<Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote:
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bk0qmn$oa4cd$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
[...]
You would prefer the lies told at the CPC's?
Fake medical advice can kill real women- I'd like to think better of you
than Dorothy, who doesn't care if the born die.
This kind of post is very strange. You define who is a human and then don't
care if those defined by you as unhuman die.
Who's denying humans are human?
More than a little like the dictatorships around the who are willing to kill
off humans by the millions so that their leadership lives. Rather evil
Sounds like the anti-abortion faction, to me.
to
kill off humans by the millions to pretend to save somebody, somewhere.
Yes - this is what champion.
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
15 Sep 2003 04:38:53 AM |
|
|
Pat Winstanley wrote:
In article <abp8mvsh25bcfmfihnu5htksugt95hntuh@4ax.com>,
Krisblakemy2babies@xmsg.com says...
Subject: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto
From: Krisblake <Krisblakemy2babies@xmsg.com>
Newsgroups: talk.abortion, alt.abortion
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:39:16 GMT, "Dorothy"
<Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote:
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bk0qmn$oa4cd$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
[...]
You would prefer the lies told at the CPC's?
Fake medical advice can kill real women- I'd like to think better of you
than Dorothy, who doesn't care if the born die.
This kind of post is very strange. You define who is a human and then don't
care if those defined by you as unhuman die.
Who's denying humans are human?
I keep wondering that too. The only people I have seen saying anything
that could be construed as saying that a human being isn't human, or a
human ovum, sperm, embryo, foetus isn't human, are the anti-choice
people!
I haven't seen *any* pro-choice person deny that a human s/o/e/f is
human!
Only because certain empty-headed ignorami can't be bothered
differentiating between human (adjective: i.e. SOMETHING HUMAN) and human
(noun: A HUMAN)
.
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| User: "Lawrence E. McKnight" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
15 Sep 2003 07:27:30 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:38:53 +1200, wrote:
Pat Winstanley wrote:
In article <abp8mvsh25bcfmfihnu5htksugt95hntuh@4ax.com>,
Krisblakemy2babies@xmsg.com says...
Subject: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto
From: Krisblake <Krisblakemy2babies@xmsg.com>
Newsgroups: talk.abortion, alt.abortion
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:39:16 GMT, "Dorothy"
<Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote:
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bk0qmn$oa4cd$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
[...]
You would prefer the lies told at the CPC's?
Fake medical advice can kill real women- I'd like to think better of you
than Dorothy, who doesn't care if the born die.
This kind of post is very strange. You define who is a human and then don't
care if those defined by you as unhuman die.
Who's denying humans are human?
I keep wondering that too. The only people I have seen saying anything
that could be construed as saying that a human being isn't human, or a
human ovum, sperm, embryo, foetus isn't human, are the anti-choice
people!
I haven't seen *any* pro-choice person deny that a human s/o/e/f is
human!
Only because certain empty-headed ignorami can't be bothered
differentiating between human (adjective: i.e. SOMETHING HUMAN) and human
(noun: A HUMAN)
Hmm. Another self-referential post. In case you haven't noticed, it
is the looney anti-abortionists that had trouble with nouns and
adjectives.
Larry
(this space unintentially left blank .....
make obvious deletion for email
.
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| User: "Krisblake" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
13 Sep 2003 04:42:21 PM |
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|
On 13 Sep 2003 14:13:47 -0700, (Papa Jack) wrote:
[...]
Do you ever consider it's fairly widely accepted that
many girls/women are coerced -- either physically or
emotionally -- to go to an abortion mill by husbands,
boyfriends, or other significant people in their lives.
You should know -- you coerce a number of these underaged girls to
continue their pregnancies.
[...]
The abortion industry has repeatedly told lies about CPCs
because they cut into their profit margins.
The adoption industry has repeatedly told lies about clinics that
perform abortions because they slash their profit margins.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
13 Sep 2003 05:05:19 PM |
|
|
Papa Jackass <papajack@stic.net> wrote:
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com>
Have you ever been to a clinic providing abortions?
I wasn't lied to, coerced and nobody tried to be my "friend". Do you really
think a girl of any age going into one of these clinics needs to be sold on
the idea? They are going to these clinics because they do not want to be
pregnant, and the clinics offer solutions.
Yep, I do think quite a few need to be sold on the idea.
Not because of any facts or experience, but solely because you're a
hate-filled bigot who assumes the worst in everybody.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
13 Sep 2003 11:28:20 PM |
|
|
"Dorothy" <Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote in message
news:T1Q8b.439148$Ho3.71404@sccrnsc03...
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:bk04au$5fj$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Papa Jackass <papajack@stic.net> wrote:
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com>
Have you ever been to a clinic providing abortions?
I wasn't lied to, coerced and nobody tried to be my "friend". Do you
really
think a girl of any age going into one of these clinics needs to be
sold on
the idea? They are going to these clinics because they do not want to
be
pregnant, and the clinics offer solutions.
Yep, I do think quite a few need to be sold on the idea.
Not because of any facts or experience, but solely because you're a
hate-filled bigot who assumes the worst in everybody.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
Same song upteenth verse, a little bit louder and a little bit worse.
Sound off one two Sound off three four
Count the kills
One two three four
Three four
Chant of the marching pro-aborts.
Says the one who doesn't mind killing *born people*.
.
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| User: "Pat Winstanley" |
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| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
14 Sep 2003 06:59:54 AM |
|
|
In article <T1Q8b.439148$Ho3.71404@sccrnsc03>,
Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net says...
Same song upteenth verse, a little bit louder and a little bit worse.
Sound off one two Sound off three four
Count the kills
One two three four
Three four
I see you are still singing that little ditty that describes you.
Nonsense! ;-)
.
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| User: "Dorothy" |
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| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
12 Sep 2003 05:05:31 PM |
|
|
Papa Jack, when you called the places chop chop, you were right on target.
These places could be called chop shops as chop shops generally refers to
places where stolen cars are pulled apart and the parts are resold without
the owner being aware of what happens to his car. This is only one of a
number of exposes on the selling of parts taken from aborted humans.
July 1999
Baby Parts for Sale
A batch of eyes by UPS - 30 livers by FedEx
By J. C. Willke, MD
After fighting abortion for 30 years I thought I had seen and heard it all,
but not so. Here is
a new development, a coordinated high-tech industry functioning for the
specific purpose
of obtaining and selling high-quality fetal organs for research.
Partial-Birth abortions seemed to be so horrible that most of us wondered
how such
procedures could be defended. Many of us chalked it up to the fact that the
pro-abortion
advocates and the abortion industry didn't want to give one inch for fear
that their whole
house of cards will fold. I, among others, felt that their resistance to
forbidding this
gruesome procedure was a fear of a domino effect. If we stopped this one,
then we'd stop
the next and the next and the next and they didn't want it to start. But now
we have
evidence of a very clear additional reason why they want these late-term
abortions to
continue. The reason is that this is the one method that gives them intact
fetal bodies from
which they can obtain organs for research.
The other method of late-term abortion, D&E (Dilatation and Evacuation),
involves reaching
up into the uterus and dismembering the live baby. This delivers pieces of
macerated
organs that are usually unsuitable for fetal research, transplantation etc.
This may be the
main reason for their vehement defense of the practice of Partial-Birth
abortion.
The story was broken recently by Life Dynamics under the guidance of its
director, Mark
Crutcher. A lady came to him with a story, which he has verified. The name
of the
informant cannot be revealed, as she is still involved in the work that she
has exposed. Her
story is dramatically recorded in a video just released by Life Dynamics. In
it, this woman
under the pseudonym, Kelly, tells her story. Her back is to the camera and
her voice is
electronically altered to prevent her identification. She worked for "an
outside source,
hired with a team to go in [to late term abortion clinics] to dissect and
procure fetal tissue
for high-quality sales." Read on as Kelly describes her macabre profession.
"What we did
was to have a contract with an abortion clinic that would allow us to
go there on certain days. We would get a generated list each day to tell us
what tissue
researchers, pharmaceutical companies and universities were looking for.
Then we would
examine the patient charts. We would screen out the ones we didn't want.
We did not use specimens that had STDs [sexually transmitted diseases] or
fetal
abnormalities. We only wanted the most perfect specimens that we could give
to the
researchers." And the age of these babies? The victims were up to and over
30-weeks
gestation. "We were looking for eyes, livers, brains, thymuses [lymphoid
tissue], cardiac
blood, cord blood, blood from the liver, even blood from the limbs."
Only an estimated 2% of the late-term aborted babies had abnormalities. "The
rest were
very healthy. 95% of the time, she was just there to get rid of the baby."
How many of the
late-term - the ones around 30 weeks - would you see? "Probably 30 or 40
babies a week."
Kelly stated, "We would sell the tissue to private contractors. They in turn
would sell to
other universities and researchers. There was a high demand every week to
buy such fetal
tissues. It was shipped by UPS, FedEx, Airborne and sometimes by special
couriers.
Sometimes we would take the specimen in a box to the airport and put it on
as regular
cargo, to be picked up at the destination." And did these shipping companies
know they
were transporting baby parts? "No. All they knew was that it was just human
cells. But it
could be a completely intact fetus. It might be a batch of eyes, or 30 or 40
livers going out
that day, or thymuses
And the leftover parts? "We would usually put this down the garbage disposal
along with
the placenta and the leftover blood material. If it was too large to go down
the drain, they
had a special freezer and when they accumulated 60 or 70 fetuses in one box,
it would be
picked up for incineration."
And then the obvious question. Kelly is still working for this company, so
why did she come
and tell this story to a pro-life group? One day when she was working, "A
set of twins at 24
weeks gestation was brought to us in a pan. They were both alive. The doctor
came back
and said, `Got you some good specimens, twins.' I looked at him and said,
`There's something wrong here. They are moving. I don't do this. This is not
in my
contract.' I told him I would not be part of taking their lives. So he took
a bottle of sterile
water and poured it in the pan until the fluid came up over their mouths and
noses, letting
them drown. I left the room because I could not watch this." But she did go
back and
dissect them after they were dead. She said, "That's when I decided it was
wrong. I did not
want to be there when that happened." And then it happened again and again.
"At 16
weeks, all the way up to sometimes even 30 weeks, and we had live births
come back to
us." And then? "Then the doctor would either break the neck or take a pair
of tongs and
beat the fetus until it was dead."
Did the abortionist ever alter the procedures to get you the type of
specimens you needed
that day? Her answer was "Yes, before the procedures they would want to see
the list of
what we wanted to procure. The [abortionist] would get us the most complete,
intact
specimens that he could. They would be delivered to us completely intact.
Sometimes the
fetus appeared to be dead, but when we opened up the chest cavity, the heart
was still
beating." She was asked if the type of abortion procedure was intentionally
altered to
deliver to you an intact specimen, even if that meant giving you a live
baby? Her answer
was, "Yes, that was so we could sell better tissue, so that our company
would make more
money. At the end of the year, they would give the clinic back more money
because we
got good specimens."
The Partial-Birth abortion procedure involves inserting seaweed laminaria
into the cervix.
This swells up, dilating the cervix. In 24 hours, new laminaria are
inserted. This produces
more swelling and dilatation so that by the third day the baby can be
extracted. During the
dilatation procedure she is sent to a nearby motel. Sometimes the laminaria
would fall out
and she would go into labor and deliver the baby. And then? "They would call
the nurse,
and the nurse would call the doctor who would go to the motel room and pick
up the
woman and the fetus. That's when they would call us and say, `Okay, we've
got a couple
of specimens here,' or `We've got one specimen.' We would go [to the clinic]
and the
specimen [the baby] would be in a bucket, sometimes alive. When we opened
the chest
cavity the heart would still be beating. Sometimes we could see movement in
the bucket.
These babies had to come out alive. There's no way for them to be coming out
dead. They
were all alive. How they killed them is anyone's guess. My guess is that
they had to kill
them in the bucket or put them in a corner and let them die slowly." And
that was because
the abortionist had seen how strongly you reacted to seeing them killed in
front of you?
"That's correct. And he did not want to repeat those instances but they kept
happening
anyway, and that's how I came to call you guys [Life Dynamics]."
Finally, Kelly related how sometimes a woman, halfway through the dilatation
procedure,
would change her mind and say she did not want the abortion. In such a case
they would
tell her that it's too late now. "You're going to have the abortion." Kelly
said, "All of the
staff would gather around pressuring her to have the abortion. On the second
day, they're
given an IV sedation, which kind of puts them into what I call a Nyquil nap.
They're just
basically drowsy, not thinking for themselves and that's basically how they
are coerced
into continuing the procedure."
Finally, in the interview, she notes that many of the employees of the
clinics were lesbians.
When the mother was unconscious these women would discuss her genitalia with
degrading remarks and on occasion even take the phone number off of her
chart. Then
they would "call her weeks down the road and ask her out for a date. It was
not
uncommon for women or men at the clinic to hit on these women for dates."
Now We Know Why
Now we know one of the major reasons why the abortion industry is fighting
so intensely to
prevent a ban on Partial-Birth abortion from being enacted. It's more than
not giving any
ground on abortion for any reason. It's also because selling fetal parts is
a very lucrative
part of the abortion business. These mothers pay large sums of money for
late-term
abortions and the abortionists in turn are given big money for these intact
organs. The
model specimens have to be: the bigger - the better; the older - the better;
the more alive -
the better.
The above dialogue is from a video that has been produced by Life Dynamics.
If any of our
readers would like a free copy of this interview, while quantities last,
feel free to contact us
and we will send you a copy. Send your request to: Life Issues Institute,
1721 W. Galbraith
Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45239. Phone (513) 729-3600. Fax (513) 729-3636. E-mail
lifeissues@aol.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
13 Sep 2003 11:12:47 AM |
|
|
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bjtgs1$n2mh1$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dorothy" <Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote in message
news:Lqr8b.230446$2x.64158@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Papa Jack, when you called the places chop chop, you were right on
target.
These places could be called chop shops as chop shops generally refers
to
places where stolen cars are pulled apart and the parts are resold
without
the owner being aware of what happens to his car. This is only one of a
number of exposes on the selling of parts taken from aborted humans.
July 1999
Baby Parts for Sale
A batch of eyes by UPS - 30 livers by FedEx
<extremism snipped>
Aren't you the folks that keep bitching about "babies in garbage cans"??
My
father has Parkinsons, *****, and your cute little attitude is killing
him.
A live, born person. Stick that thought in your pipe and puff.
HEY DOROTHY YOU FORGOT TO ANSWER THIS!!!!!!!!
Now We Know Why
Now we know one of the major reasons why the abortion industry is
fighting
so intensely to
prevent a ban on Partial-Birth abortion from being enacted. It's more
than
not giving any
ground on abortion for any reason. It's also because selling fetal parts
is
a very lucrative
part of the abortion business. These mothers pay large sums of money for
late-term
abortions and the abortionists in turn are given big money for these
intact
organs. The
model specimens have to be: the bigger - the better; the older - the
better;
the more alive -
the better.
The above dialogue is from a video that has been produced by Life
Dynamics.
If any of our
readers would like a free copy of this interview, while quantities last,
feel free to contact us
and we will send you a copy. Send your request to: Life Issues
Institute,
1721 W. Galbraith
Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45239. Phone (513) 729-3600. Fax (513) 729-3636.
E-mail
lifeissues@aol.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dorothy" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
13 Sep 2003 09:07:35 PM |
|
|
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bjvfm5$nujlh$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bjtgs1$n2mh1$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dorothy" <Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote in message
news:Lqr8b.230446$2x.64158@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Papa Jack, when you called the places chop chop, you were right on
target.
These places could be called chop shops as chop shops generally refers
to
places where stolen cars are pulled apart and the parts are resold
without
the owner being aware of what happens to his car. This is only one of
a
number of exposes on the selling of parts taken from aborted humans.
July 1999
Baby Parts for Sale
A batch of eyes by UPS - 30 livers by FedEx
<extremism snipped>
Aren't you the folks that keep bitching about "babies in garbage cans"??
My
father has Parkinsons, *****, and your cute little attitude is killing
him.
A live, born person. Stick that thought in your pipe and puff.
HEY DOROTHY YOU FORGOT TO ANSWER THIS!!!!!!!!
Are you looking for a place to sell off your dad's body parts? Sorry.
Can't help you.
Now We Know Why
Now we know one of the major reasons why the abortion industry is
fighting
so intensely to
prevent a ban on Partial-Birth abortion from being enacted. It's more
than
not giving any
ground on abortion for any reason. It's also because selling fetal
parts
is
a very lucrative
part of the abortion business. These mothers pay large sums of money
for
late-term
abortions and the abortionists in turn are given big money for these
intact
organs. The
model specimens have to be: the bigger - the better; the older - the
better;
the more alive -
the better.
The above dialogue is from a video that has been produced by Life
Dynamics.
If any of our
readers would like a free copy of this interview, while quantities
last,
feel free to contact us
and we will send you a copy. Send your request to: Life Issues
Institute,
1721 W. Galbraith
Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45239. Phone (513) 729-3600. Fax (513) 729-3636.
E-mail
lifeissues@aol.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
13 Sep 2003 11:10:02 PM |
|
|
"Dorothy" <Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote in message
news:H3Q8b.436454$YN5.294317@sccrnsc01...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bjvfm5$nujlh$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bjtgs1$n2mh1$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dorothy" <Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote in message
news:Lqr8b.230446$2x.64158@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Papa Jack, when you called the places chop chop, you were right on
target.
These places could be called chop shops as chop shops generally
refers
to
places where stolen cars are pulled apart and the parts are resold
without
the owner being aware of what happens to his car. This is only one
of
a
number of exposes on the selling of parts taken from aborted
humans.
July 1999
Baby Parts for Sale
A batch of eyes by UPS - 30 livers by FedEx
<extremism snipped>
Aren't you the folks that keep bitching about "babies in garbage
cans"??
My
father has Parkinsons, *****, and your cute little attitude is killing
him.
A live, born person. Stick that thought in your pipe and puff.
HEY DOROTHY YOU FORGOT TO ANSWER THIS!!!!!!!!
Are you looking for a place to sell off your dad's body parts? Sorry.
Can't help you.
(I thought you knew all about places like that??)
No. I was looking to see if you cared about an actual person- you don't, and
you have now proven it nicely to the rest of the board. My conclusion would
be that you don't really care about those "babies" either.
Now We Know Why
Now we know one of the major reasons why the abortion industry is
fighting
so intensely to
prevent a ban on Partial-Birth abortion from being enacted. It's
more
than
not giving any
ground on abortion for any reason. It's also because selling fetal
parts
is
a very lucrative
part of the abortion business. These mothers pay large sums of money
for
late-term
abortions and the abortionists in turn are given big money for these
intact
organs. The
model specimens have to be: the bigger - the better; the older - the
better;
the more alive -
the better.
The above dialogue is from a video that has been produced by Life
Dynamics.
If any of our
readers would like a free copy of this interview, while quantities
last,
feel free to contact us
and we will send you a copy. Send your request to: Life Issues
Institute,
1721 W. Galbraith
Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45239. Phone (513) 729-3600. Fax (513) 729-3636.
E-mail
lifeissues@aol.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dorothy" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
14 Sep 2003 07:46:18 AM |
|
|
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bk0pmv$nrbna$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dorothy" <Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote in message
news:H3Q8b.436454$YN5.294317@sccrnsc01...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bjvfm5$nujlh$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bjtgs1$n2mh1$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dorothy" <Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote in message
news:Lqr8b.230446$2x.64158@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Papa Jack, when you called the places chop chop, you were right on
target.
These places could be called chop shops as chop shops generally
refers
to
places where stolen cars are pulled apart and the parts are resold
without
the owner being aware of what happens to his car. This is only
one
of
a
number of exposes on the selling of parts taken from aborted
humans.
July 1999
Baby Parts for Sale
A batch of eyes by UPS - 30 livers by FedEx
<extremism snipped>
Aren't you the folks that keep bitching about "babies in garbage
cans"??
My
father has Parkinsons, *****, and your cute little attitude is
killing
him.
A live, born person. Stick that thought in your pipe and puff.
HEY DOROTHY YOU FORGOT TO ANSWER THIS!!!!!!!!
Are you looking for a place to sell off your dad's body parts? Sorry.
Can't help you.
(I thought you knew all about places like that??)
No. I was looking to see if you cared about an actual person- you don't,
and
you have now proven it nicely to the rest of the board. My conclusion
would
be that you don't really care about those "babies" either.
I don't believe you have a daddy who is dying of Parkinsons. It's another
of the pro-abort stories that are meant to work the tear ducts of the flock
who flutter around your every word. Just another in the string of lies you
put forth in order to justify killing by the millions. "Fool me once,
shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I was fooled more than once
before I caught on the scam.
Now We Know Why
Now we know one of the major reasons why the abortion industry is
fighting
so intensely to
prevent a ban on Partial-Birth abortion from being enacted. It's
more
than
not giving any
ground on abortion for any reason. It's also because selling fetal
parts
is
a very lucrative
part of the abortion business. These mothers pay large sums of
money
for
late-term
abortions and the abortionists in turn are given big money for
these
intact
organs. The
model specimens have to be: the bigger - the better; the older -
the
better;
the more alive -
the better.
The above dialogue is from a video that has been produced by Life
Dynamics.
If any of our
readers would like a free copy of this interview, while quantities
last,
feel free to contact us
and we will send you a copy. Send your request to: Life Issues
Institute,
1721 W. Galbraith
Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45239. Phone (513) 729-3600. Fax (513)
729-3636.
E-mail
lifeissues@aol.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Krisblake" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
14 Sep 2003 07:59:40 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:46:18 GMT, "Dorothy"
<Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote:
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bk0pmv$nrbna$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dorothy" <Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote in message
news:H3Q8b.436454$YN5.294317@sccrnsc01...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bjvfm5$nujlh$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in message
news:bjtgs1$n2mh1$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dorothy" <Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote in message
news:Lqr8b.230446$2x.64158@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Papa Jack, when you called the places chop chop, you were right on
target.
These places could be called chop shops as chop shops generally
refers
to
places where stolen cars are pulled apart and the parts are resold
without
the owner being aware of what happens to his car. This is only
one
of
a
number of exposes on the selling of parts taken from aborted
humans.
July 1999
Baby Parts for Sale
A batch of eyes by UPS - 30 livers by FedEx
<extremism snipped>
Aren't you the folks that keep bitching about "babies in garbage
cans"??
My
father has Parkinsons, *****, and your cute little attitude is
killing
him.
A live, born person. Stick that thought in your pipe and puff.
HEY DOROTHY YOU FORGOT TO ANSWER THIS!!!!!!!!
Are you looking for a place to sell off your dad's body parts? Sorry.
Can't help you.
(I thought you knew all about places like that??)
No. I was looking to see if you cared about an actual person- you don't,
and
you have now proven it nicely to the rest of the board. My conclusion
would
be that you don't really care about those "babies" either.
I don't believe you have a daddy who is dying of Parkinsons.
I don't believe you're a woman. So what?
It's another
of the pro-abort stories that are meant to work the tear ducts of the flock
who flutter around your every word.
Oh, just like Diana's claim that her alleged husband died from cancer?
To do EXACTLY the same thing.
[...]
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pat Winstanley" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
14 Sep 2003 09:31:23 AM |
|
|
In article <4fp8mvkfb0g7ohr0a65a051kbkv9k56765@4ax.com>,
Krisblakemy2babies@xmsg.com says...
I don't believe you have a daddy who is dying of Parkinsons.
I don't believe you're a woman. So what?
It's another
of the pro-abort stories that are meant to work the tear ducts of the flock
who flutter around your every word.
Oh, just like Diana's claim that her alleged husband died from cancer?
To do EXACTLY the same thing.
[...]
Mmmm... I wonder if they believe my statement that my kids' dad died of
cancer? (This, BTW, has been posted in Usenet before).
.
|
|
|
| User: "Krisblake" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
14 Sep 2003 11:54:53 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 15:31:23 +0100, Pat Winstanley
<wallopcods2003@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
In article <4fp8mvkfb0g7ohr0a65a051kbkv9k56765@4ax.com>,
Krisblakemy2babies@xmsg.com says...
I don't believe you have a daddy who is dying of Parkinsons.
I don't believe you're a woman. So what?
It's another
of the pro-abort stories that are meant to work the tear ducts of the flock
who flutter around your every word.
Oh, just like Diana's claim that her alleged husband died from cancer?
To do EXACTLY the same thing.
[...]
Mmmm... I wonder if they believe my statement that my kids' dad died of
cancer? (This, BTW, has been posted in Usenet before).
Their opinion is utterly worthless.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Lawrence E. McKnight" |
|
| Title: Re: Missouri House Overrides Abortion Bill Veto |
14 Sep 2003 01:08:58 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:46:18 GMT, "Dorothy"
<Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote:
[snip..
I don't believe you have a daddy who is dying of Parkinsons. It's another
of the pro-abort stories that are meant to work the tear ducts of the flock
who flutter around your every word. Just another in the string of lies you
put forth in order to justify killing by the millions. "Fool me once,
shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I was fooled more than once
before I caught on the scam.
so we would then be justified in disbelieving what you have posted
about your daughter?
[snip..
Larry
(this space unintentially left blank .....
make obvious deletion for email
.
|
|
| | | | | | | |
