Science > Abortion > Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
20 Oct 2005 11:27:02 PM |
| Object: |
Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
This woman should claim that she was only exercising her "right to choose"
and have the ACLU represent her in court.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12955752.htm
Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay
SAN FRANCISCO - A mentally ill woman seen dropping her three sons into San
Francisco Bay from a downtown pier was charged with three counts of murder
Thursday while anguished relatives kept vigil and rescuers combed the chilly
water for the bodies of two of the victims.
Lashuan T. Harris, 23, of Oakland, was held in a hospital jail ward after
police saw her pushing an empty baby stroller away from the pier where a
witness reported spotting a woman drop the children off the end Wednesday
night.
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 05:27:50 AM |
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On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?
Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.
Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?
According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.
Oh, no.
She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.
No therapy and no regular doctor yet she's taking meds? Nobody was
assigned to monitor her, at least?
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
.
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 05:44:28 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:27:50 -0400 in alt.atheism, Pauline Barclay
(Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
[snip]
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
Presumably an analogue of the UK "Care in the community" system, the
most famous result of which was a guy who was being cared for in the
community feeding himself to a community of lions at London zoo.
.
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 06:11:02 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:44:28 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:27:50 -0400 in alt.atheism, Pauline Barclay
(Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
[snip]
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
Presumably an analogue of the UK "Care in the community" system, the
most famous result of which was a guy who was being cared for in the
community feeding himself to a community of lions at London zoo.
Oh, dear God.
And they want to make this woman fully responsible for their
irresponsibility?
.
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| User: "Mimi Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SFBay |
23 Oct 2005 08:47:20 AM |
|
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Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:44:28 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:27:50 -0400 in alt.atheism, Pauline Barclay
(Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
[snip]
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
Presumably an analogue of the UK "Care in the community" system, the
most famous result of which was a guy who was being cared for in the
community feeding himself to a community of lions at London zoo.
Oh, dear God.
And they want to make this woman fully responsible for their
irresponsibility?
What woman?
.
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 09:26:29 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:47:20 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:44:28 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:27:50 -0400 in alt.atheism, Pauline Barclay
(Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
[snip]
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
Presumably an analogue of the UK "Care in the community" system, the
most famous result of which was a guy who was being cared for in the
community feeding himself to a community of lions at London zoo.
Oh, dear God.
And they want to make this woman fully responsible for their
irresponsibility?
What woman?
The woman in the article.
.
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| User: "Mimi Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SFBay |
23 Oct 2005 09:44:57 AM |
|
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Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:47:20 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:44:28 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:27:50 -0400 in alt.atheism, Pauline Barclay
(Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
[snip]
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
Presumably an analogue of the UK "Care in the community" system, the
most famous result of which was a guy who was being cared for in the
community feeding himself to a community of lions at London zoo.
Oh, dear God.
And they want to make this woman fully responsible for their
irresponsibility?
What woman?
The woman in the article.
Maybe I'm being unusually dense this morning, who is blaming the mom in
the article for a crazy guy feeding himself to lions in London?
(vinny barberino mode: I'm so confused) :)
.
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 10:21:31 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:44:57 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:47:20 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:44:28 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:27:50 -0400 in alt.atheism, Pauline Barclay
(Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
[snip]
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
Presumably an analogue of the UK "Care in the community" system, the
most famous result of which was a guy who was being cared for in the
community feeding himself to a community of lions at London zoo.
Oh, dear God.
And they want to make this woman fully responsible for their
irresponsibility?
What woman?
The woman in the article.
Maybe I'm being unusually dense this morning, who is blaming the mom in
the article for a crazy guy feeding himself to lions in London?
(vinny barberino mode: I'm so confused) :)
No, no--the mother in the article in the topic of this thread.
.
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| User: "Mimi Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SFBay |
23 Oct 2005 11:31:53 AM |
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Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:44:57 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:47:20 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:44:28 +0100, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:27:50 -0400 in alt.atheism, Pauline Barclay
(Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
[snip]
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
Presumably an analogue of the UK "Care in the community" system, the
most famous result of which was a guy who was being cared for in the
community feeding himself to a community of lions at London zoo.
Oh, dear God.
And they want to make this woman fully responsible for their
irresponsibility?
What woman?
The woman in the article.
Maybe I'm being unusually dense this morning, who is blaming the mom in
the article for a crazy guy feeding himself to lions in London?
(vinny barberino mode: I'm so confused) :)
No, no--the mother in the article in the topic of this thread.
That was what I meant, it's getting as clear as mud, maybe I should go
back to sleep and read it again when I wake up :)
.
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| User: "Mimi Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SFBay |
23 Oct 2005 08:43:01 AM |
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Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?
Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.
Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?
According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.
Oh, no.
She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.
No therapy and no regular doctor yet she's taking meds? Nobody was
assigned to monitor her, at least?
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
He shut down the state run mental hospitals, they were forced to push
patients out the doors.
.
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 09:26:58 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:43:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?
Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.
Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?
According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.
Oh, no.
She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.
No therapy and no regular doctor yet she's taking meds? Nobody was
assigned to monitor her, at least?
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
He shut down the state run mental hospitals, they were forced to push
patients out the doors.
Oh my word!
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 09:49:37 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:26:58 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<tc7nl1thhe4j5rc06rn2bv95kcukb5udvk@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:43:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?
Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.
Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?
According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.
Oh, no.
She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.
No therapy and no regular doctor yet she's taking meds? Nobody was
assigned to monitor her, at least?
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
He shut down the state run mental hospitals, they were forced to push
patients out the doors.
Oh my word!
This wasn't limited to California. As far as I am aware, all states made
changes in their involuntary custody laws during this time.
It was intended as a reform that was supported by liberals because they
thought that the then current system had been poor at helping and curing
the mentally ill, while the conservatives of the time liked saving
money. It turned out to be a great failure for those who suffered from
mental illnes as they were forgotten by the system and funding and
followup for community programs was never adequate.
.
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 10:24:50 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:49:37 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:26:58 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<tc7nl1thhe4j5rc06rn2bv95kcukb5udvk@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:43:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?
Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.
Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?
According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.
Oh, no.
She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.
No therapy and no regular doctor yet she's taking meds? Nobody was
assigned to monitor her, at least?
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
He shut down the state run mental hospitals, they were forced to push
patients out the doors.
Oh my word!
This wasn't limited to California. As far as I am aware, all states made
changes in their involuntary custody laws during this time.
It was intended as a reform that was supported by liberals because they
thought that the then current system had been poor at helping and curing
the mentally ill, while the conservatives of the time liked saving
money. It turned out to be a great failure for those who suffered from
mental illnes as they were forgotten by the system and funding and
followup for community programs was never adequate.
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 11:04:07 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:49:37 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:26:58 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<tc7nl1thhe4j5rc06rn2bv95kcukb5udvk@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:43:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?
Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.
Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?
According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.
Oh, no.
She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.
No therapy and no regular doctor yet she's taking meds? Nobody was
assigned to monitor her, at least?
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
He shut down the state run mental hospitals, they were forced to push
patients out the doors.
Oh my word!
This wasn't limited to California. As far as I am aware, all states made
changes in their involuntary custody laws during this time.
It was intended as a reform that was supported by liberals because they
thought that the then current system had been poor at helping and curing
the mentally ill, while the conservatives of the time liked saving
money. It turned out to be a great failure for those who suffered from
mental illnes as they were forgotten by the system and funding and
followup for community programs was never adequate.
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the reforms,
merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of unthinking
reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat reliable
in the past century -- many folks probably were better off subscribing
to Christian Science in the 19th century since going to a doctor was
quite dangerous at the time. Chronic physical diseases are still very
poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of chronic
mental illness, one that was even more filled with illusions and
misunderstandings than the physical ailments that we are slowly managing
to improve.
.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 11:08:03 AM |
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David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:lrcnl1dppa5r8orm3rumi8djn4i5qn7pl4@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:49:37 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:26:58 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<tc7nl1thhe4j5rc06rn2bv95kcukb5udvk@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:43:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net>
wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net>
wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat,
22 Oct 2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater
<bw@baarrk.net> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005
06:24:40 GMT iin alt.atheism?
Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking
it. That makes her responsible for her actions.
Why did she stop the medication and who was her
psychiatrist/doctor and where were they?
According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the
SFBA) she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was
cured. This happened after she found Jesus in a big way.
Oh, no.
She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public
assitance and getting her meds through MediCal.
No therapy and no regular doctor yet she's taking meds? Nobody
was assigned to monitor her, at least?
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental
patients out into the streets, we haven't been able to right
things since.
What do you mean?
He shut down the state run mental hospitals, they were forced to
push patients out the doors.
Oh my word!
This wasn't limited to California. As far as I am aware, all states
made changes in their involuntary custody laws during this time.
It was intended as a reform that was supported by liberals because
they thought that the then current system had been poor at helping
and curing the mentally ill, while the conservatives of the time
liked saving money. It turned out to be a great failure for those who
suffered from mental illnes as they were forgotten by the system and
funding and followup for community programs was never adequate.
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the reforms,
merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of unthinking
reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat
reliable in the past century -- many folks probably were better off
subscribing to Christian Science in the 19th century since going to a
doctor was quite dangerous at the time. Chronic physical diseases are
still very poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of chronic
mental illness, one that was even more filled with illusions and
misunderstandings than the physical ailments that we are slowly
managing to improve.
If religion could somehow be abolished, 90% of mental illness would also
disappear.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 11:35:07 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:08:03 GMT, BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:lrcnl1dppa5r8orm3rumi8djn4i5qn7pl4@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:49:37 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:26:58 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<tc7nl1thhe4j5rc06rn2bv95kcukb5udvk@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:43:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net>
wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net>
wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat,
22 Oct 2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater
<bw@baarrk.net> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005
06:24:40 GMT iin alt.atheism?
Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking
it. That makes her responsible for her actions.
Why did she stop the medication and who was her
psychiatrist/doctor and where were they?
According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the
SFBA) she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was
cured. This happened after she found Jesus in a big way.
Oh, no.
She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public
assitance and getting her meds through MediCal.
No therapy and no regular doctor yet she's taking meds? Nobody
was assigned to monitor her, at least?
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental
patients out into the streets, we haven't been able to right
things since.
What do you mean?
He shut down the state run mental hospitals, they were forced to
push patients out the doors.
Oh my word!
This wasn't limited to California. As far as I am aware, all states
made changes in their involuntary custody laws during this time.
It was intended as a reform that was supported by liberals because
they thought that the then current system had been poor at helping
and curing the mentally ill, while the conservatives of the time
liked saving money. It turned out to be a great failure for those who
suffered from mental illnes as they were forgotten by the system and
funding and followup for community programs was never adequate.
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the reforms,
merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of unthinking
reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat
reliable in the past century -- many folks probably were better off
subscribing to Christian Science in the 19th century since going to a
doctor was quite dangerous at the time. Chronic physical diseases are
still very poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of chronic
mental illness, one that was even more filled with illusions and
misunderstandings than the physical ailments that we are slowly
managing to improve.
If religion could somehow be abolished, 90% of mental illness would also
disappear.
A farcical society is only one element. It's also directly physically
enviornmental, like the ***** we eat or the crap we breathe in.
.
|
|
|
| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 02:18:38 PM |
|
|
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
news:vrenl1dcqc0ch9s0rrrd6aiqo855rrsp08@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:08:03 GMT, BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:lrcnl1dppa5r8orm3rumi8djn4i5qn7pl4@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:49:37 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:26:58 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<tc7nl1thhe4j5rc06rn2bv95kcukb5udvk@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:43:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net>
wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net>
wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat,
22 Oct 2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater
<bw@baarrk.net> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005
06:24:40 GMT iin alt.atheism?
Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking
it. That makes her responsible for her actions.
Why did she stop the medication and who was her
psychiatrist/doctor and where were they?
According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in
the
SFBA) she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was
cured. This happened after she found Jesus in a big way.
Oh, no.
She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public
assitance and getting her meds through MediCal.
No therapy and no regular doctor yet she's taking meds? Nobody
was assigned to monitor her, at least?
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental
patients out into the streets, we haven't been able to right
things since.
What do you mean?
He shut down the state run mental hospitals, they were forced to
push patients out the doors.
Oh my word!
This wasn't limited to California. As far as I am aware, all states
made changes in their involuntary custody laws during this time.
It was intended as a reform that was supported by liberals because
they thought that the then current system had been poor at helping
and curing the mentally ill, while the conservatives of the time
liked saving money. It turned out to be a great failure for those
who
suffered from mental illnes as they were forgotten by the system and
funding and followup for community programs was never adequate.
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the reforms,
merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of unthinking
reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that
requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat
reliable in the past century -- many folks probably were better off
subscribing to Christian Science in the 19th century since going to a
doctor was quite dangerous at the time. Chronic physical diseases are
still very poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of chronic
mental illness, one that was even more filled with illusions and
misunderstandings than the physical ailments that we are slowly
managing to improve.
If religion could somehow be abolished, 90% of mental illness would
also
disappear.
A farcical society is only one element. It's also directly physically
enviornmental, like the ***** we eat or the crap we breathe in.
In my opinion, most religious zealots are not playing with a full deck.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 11:18:05 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:08:03 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F85CF84DEB3SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:lrcnl1dppa5r8orm3rumi8djn4i5qn7pl4@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
....
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the reforms,
merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of unthinking
reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat
reliable in the past century -- many folks probably were better off
subscribing to Christian Science in the 19th century since going to a
doctor was quite dangerous at the time. Chronic physical diseases are
still very poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of chronic
mental illness, one that was even more filled with illusions and
misunderstandings than the physical ailments that we are slowly
managing to improve.
If religion could somehow be abolished, 90% of mental illness would also
disappear.
Sadly, that is not true. Most mental illness has a physiological
component.
.
|
|
|
| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 11:30:44 AM |
|
|
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:4sdnl1thj267mc79ni4hulcn3fr38kkjbq@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:08:03 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F85CF84DEB3SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:lrcnl1dppa5r8orm3rumi8djn4i5qn7pl4@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
...
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the reforms,
merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of unthinking
reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that
requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat
reliable in the past century -- many folks probably were better off
subscribing to Christian Science in the 19th century since going to a
doctor was quite dangerous at the time. Chronic physical diseases are
still very poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of chronic
mental illness, one that was even more filled with illusions and
misunderstandings than the physical ailments that we are slowly
managing to improve.
If religion could somehow be abolished, 90% of mental illness would
also
disappear.
Sadly, that is not true. Most mental illness has a physiological
component.
So does religion...
.
|
|
|
| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 11:34:33 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:30:44 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F860D128A31SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:4sdnl1thj267mc79ni4hulcn3fr38kkjbq@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:08:03 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F85CF84DEB3SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:lrcnl1dppa5r8orm3rumi8djn4i5qn7pl4@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
...
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the reforms,
merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of unthinking
reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that
requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat
reliable in the past century -- many folks probably were better off
subscribing to Christian Science in the 19th century since going to a
doctor was quite dangerous at the time. Chronic physical diseases are
still very poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of chronic
mental illness, one that was even more filled with illusions and
misunderstandings than the physical ailments that we are slowly
managing to improve.
If religion could somehow be abolished, 90% of mental illness would
also
disappear.
Sadly, that is not true. Most mental illness has a physiological
component.
So does religion...
Please explain that assertion.
.
|
|
|
| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 02:13:18 PM |
|
|
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:esenl197h3p9suel8ch6gpkcc3kehtk2f5@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:30:44 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F860D128A31SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:4sdnl1thj267mc79ni4hulcn3fr38kkjbq@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:08:03 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F85CF84DEB3SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:lrcnl1dppa5r8orm3rumi8djn4i5qn7pl4@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
...
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the reforms,
merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of unthinking
reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that
requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat
reliable in the past century -- many folks probably were better off
subscribing to Christian Science in the 19th century since going to a
doctor was quite dangerous at the time. Chronic physical diseases are
still very poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of chronic
mental illness, one that was even more filled with illusions and
misunderstandings than the physical ailments that we are slowly
managing to improve.
If religion could somehow be abolished, 90% of mental illness would
also
disappear.
Sadly, that is not true. Most mental illness has a physiological
component.
So does religion...
Please explain that assertion.
See #'s 2 & 3 below:
psy·cho·log·i·cal (sº”k…-l¼j“¹-k…l) also psy·cho·log·ic (-l¼j“¹k) --adj.
Abbr. psych., psychol.
1. Of or relating to psychology.
2. Of, relating to, or arising from the mind or emotions.
3. Influencing or intended to influence the mind or emotions.
4. Color. Of or being any of certain primary colors whose mixture may be
subjectively conceived as producing other colors.
--psy”cho·log“i·cal·ly adv.
Now see the association with #'s 1, 3 & 4 below:
re·lig·ion (r¹-l¹j“…n) n. Abbr. rel., relig.
1.a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as
creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized
system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a
spiritual leader.
4. A cause, a principle, or an activity pursued with zeal or conscientious
devotion.
--idiom. get religion. Informal. To accept a higher power as a controlling
influence for the good in one's life.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Paul Erickson" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 05:15:07 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:13:18 GMT, BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:esenl197h3p9suel8ch6gpkcc3kehtk2f5@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:30:44 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F860D128A31SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:4sdnl1thj267mc79ni4hulcn3fr38kkjbq@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:08:03 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F85CF84DEB3SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:lrcnl1dppa5r8orm3rumi8djn4i5qn7pl4@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
...
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the reforms,
merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of unthinking
reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that
requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat
reliable in the past century -- many folks probably were better off
subscribing to Christian Science in the 19th century since going to a
doctor was quite dangerous at the time. Chronic physical diseases are
still very poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of chronic
mental illness, one that was even more filled with illusions and
misunderstandings than the physical ailments that we are slowly
managing to improve.
If religion could somehow be abolished, 90% of mental illness would
also
disappear.
Sadly, that is not true. Most mental illness has a physiological
component.
So does religion...
Please explain that assertion.
See #'s 2 & 3 below:
psy·cho·log·i·cal (sº”k…-l¼j“¹-k…l) also psy·cho·log·ic (-l¼j“¹k) --adj.
Abbr. psych., psychol.
1. Of or relating to psychology.
2. Of, relating to, or arising from the mind or emotions.
3. Influencing or intended to influence the mind or emotions.
4. Color. Of or being any of certain primary colors whose mixture may be
subjectively conceived as producing other colors.
--psy”cho·log“i·cal·ly adv.
Now see the association with #'s 1, 3 & 4 below:
re·lig·ion (r¹-l¹j“…n) n. Abbr. rel., relig.
1.a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as
creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized
system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a
spiritual leader.
4. A cause, a principle, or an activity pursued with zeal or conscientious
devotion.
--idiom. get religion. Informal. To accept a higher power as a controlling
influence for the good in one's life.
The word was physiological. Not psychological.
.
|
|
|
| User: "BOB" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 04:47:43 PM |
|
|
Paul Erickson <prerickson@houston.rr.com> wrote in
news:bq2ol1593e55v551pf8ionfk69c79euk5n@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:13:18 GMT, BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:esenl197h3p9suel8ch6gpkcc3kehtk2f5@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:30:44 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F860D128A31SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:4sdnl1thj267mc79ni4hulcn3fr38kkjbq@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:08:03 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F85CF84DEB3SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:lrcnl1dppa5r8orm3rumi8djn4i5qn7pl4@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
...
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have
been grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken
seriously. It's either lock these people away forever or let
them go without care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the
reforms, merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of
unthinking reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these
changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that
requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat
reliable in the past century -- many folks probably were better
off subscribing to Christian Science in the 19th century since
going to a doctor was quite dangerous at the time. Chronic
physical diseases are still very poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of
chronic mental illness, one that was even more filled with
illusions and misunderstandings than the physical ailments that
we are slowly managing to improve.
If religion could somehow be abolished, 90% of mental illness
would
also
disappear.
Sadly, that is not true. Most mental illness has a physiological
component.
So does religion...
Please explain that assertion.
See #'s 2 & 3 below:
psy·cho·log·i·cal (sº”k…-l¼j“¹-k…l) also psy·cho·log·ic (-l¼j“¹k)
--adj. Abbr. psych., psychol.
1. Of or relating to psychology.
2. Of, relating to, or arising from the mind or emotions.
3. Influencing or intended to influence the mind or emotions.
4. Color. Of or being any of certain primary colors whose mixture may
be subjectively conceived as producing other colors.
--psy”cho·log“i·cal·ly adv.
Now see the association with #'s 1, 3 & 4 below:
re·lig·ion (r¹-l¹j“…n) n. Abbr. rel., relig.
1.a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers
regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or
institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a
spiritual leader.
4. A cause, a principle, or an activity pursued with zeal or
conscientious devotion.
--idiom. get religion. Informal. To accept a higher power as a
controlling influence for the good in one's life.
The word was physiological. Not psychological.
Yes, I know that now. I already responded to the original poster
regarding my reading mistake in another ng article.
That error does not change my postition on this issue.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 04:34:39 PM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:13:18 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F87C62162EESD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:esenl197h3p9suel8ch6gpkcc3kehtk2f5@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:30:44 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F860D128A31SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:4sdnl1thj267mc79ni4hulcn3fr38kkjbq@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:08:03 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F85CF84DEB3SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:lrcnl1dppa5r8orm3rumi8djn4i5qn7pl4@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
...
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the reforms,
merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of unthinking
reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that
requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat
reliable in the past century -- many folks probably were better off
subscribing to Christian Science in the 19th century since going to a
doctor was quite dangerous at the time. Chronic physical diseases are
still very poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of chronic
mental illness, one that was even more filled with illusions and
misunderstandings than the physical ailments that we are slowly
managing to improve.
If religion could somehow be abolished, 90% of mental illness would also
disappear.
Sadly, that is not true. Most mental illness has a physiological
component.
So does religion...
Please explain that assertion.
See #'s 2 & 3 below:
psy·cho·log·i·cal (sº”k…-l¼j“¹-k…l) also psy·cho·log·ic (-l¼j“¹k) --adj.
Abbr. psych., psychol.
1. Of or relating to psychology.
2. Of, relating to, or arising from the mind or emotions.
3. Influencing or intended to influence the mind or emotions.
4. Color. Of or being any of certain primary colors whose mixture may be
subjectively conceived as producing other colors.
--psy”cho·log“i·cal·ly adv.
Now see the association with #'s 1, 3 & 4 below:
re·lig·ion (r¹-l¹j“…n) n. Abbr. rel., relig.
1.a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as
creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized
system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a
spiritual leader.
4. A cause, a principle, or an activity pursued with zeal or conscientious
devotion.
--idiom. get religion. Informal. To accept a higher power as a controlling
influence for the good in one's life.
Please read: I said physiological.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 06:24:47 PM |
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David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:me0ol1t556lfol5vl9nf5s7i0fijtb2clo@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:13:18 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F87C62162EESD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:esenl197h3p9suel8ch6gpkcc3kehtk2f5@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:30:44 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F860D128A31SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:4sdnl1thj267mc79ni4hulcn3fr38kkjbq@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:08:03 GMT, in alt.atheism
BOB <sd@sd.net> wrote in <Xns96F85CF84DEB3SD@68.6.19.6>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:lrcnl1dppa5r8orm3rumi8djn4i5qn7pl4@4ax.com:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
...
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have
been grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken
seriously. It's either lock these people away forever or let
them go without care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the
reforms, merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of
unthinking reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these
changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that
requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat
reliable in the past century -- many folks probably were better
off subscribing to Christian Science in the 19th century since
going to a doctor was quite dangerous at the time. Chronic
physical diseases are still very poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of
chronic mental illness, one that was even more filled with
illusions and misunderstandings than the physical ailments that
we are slowly managing to improve.
If religion could somehow be abolished, 90% of mental illness
would also disappear.
Sadly, that is not true. Most mental illness has a physiological
component.
So does religion...
Please explain that assertion.
See #'s 2 & 3 below:
psy·cho·log·i·cal (sº”k…-l¼j“¹-k…l) also psy·cho·log·ic (-l¼j“¹k)
--adj. Abbr. psych., psychol.
1. Of or relating to psychology.
2. Of, relating to, or arising from the mind or emotions.
3. Influencing or intended to influence the mind or emotions.
4. Color. Of or being any of certain primary colors whose mixture may
be subjectively conceived as producing other colors.
--psy”cho·log“i·cal·ly adv.
Now see the association with #'s 1, 3 & 4 below:
re·lig·ion (r¹-l¹j“…n) n. Abbr. rel., relig.
1.a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers
regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or
institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a
spiritual leader.
4. A cause, a principle, or an activity pursued with zeal or
conscientious devotion.
--idiom. get religion. Informal. To accept a higher power as a
controlling influence for the good in one's life.
Please read: I said physiological.
You are right. I misread the word physiological as psychological.
My mistake, sorry.
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| User: "Mimi Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SFBay |
23 Oct 2005 11:41:38 AM |
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David Jensen wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:49:37 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:26:58 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<tc7nl1thhe4j5rc06rn2bv95kcukb5udvk@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:43:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?
Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.
Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?
According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.
Oh, no.
She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.
No therapy and no regular doctor yet she's taking meds? Nobody was
assigned to monitor her, at least?
You have to remember that here in CA Raygun turned the mental patients
out into the streets, we haven't been able to right things since.
What do you mean?
He shut down the state run mental hospitals, they were forced to push
patients out the doors.
Oh my word!
This wasn't limited to California. As far as I am aware, all states made
changes in their involuntary custody laws during this time.
It was intended as a reform that was supported by liberals because they
thought that the then current system had been poor at helping and curing
the mentally ill, while the conservatives of the time liked saving
money. It turned out to be a great failure for those who suffered from
mental illnes as they were forgotten by the system and funding and
followup for community programs was never adequate.
It was never adequate, full stop, because the mentally ill have been
grossly stigmatized and mental illness is still not taken seriously.
It's either lock these people away forever or let them go without
care.
I wasn't intending to imply that it was adequate before the reforms,
merely that it got worse after the unholy alliance of unthinking
reformers and tightwad conservatives rammed these changes through.
When will people ever regard mental illness as something that requires
just as much attention and treatment as any other illness?
We are slowly getting there. Medicine has only become somewhat reliable
in the past century -- many folks probably were better off subscribing
to Christian Science in the 19th century since going to a doctor was
quite dangerous at the time. Chronic physical diseases are still very
poorly treated.
Now we are working on the far more challenging medicine of chronic
mental illness, one that was even more filled with illusions and
misunderstandings than the physical ailments that we are slowly managing
to improve.
Fortunately we've done away with lobotomies and electro shock therapy,
both of which did much more harm than good.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 11:48:12 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:41:38 -0700, in alt.atheism
Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote in <63P6f.10600$gj1.8327@fed1read05>:
David Jensen wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:24:50 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<bkanl1dtov8us2ddkmj975r906b3kllaeo@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:49:37 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:26:58 -0400, in alt.atheism
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
<tc7nl1thhe4j5rc06rn2bv95kcukb5udvk@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:43:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:41:43 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:
Pauline Barclay wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?
Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
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