Science > Abortion > Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
20 Oct 2005 11:27:02 PM |
| Object: |
Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
This woman should claim that she was only exercising her "right to choose"
and have the ACLU represent her in court.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12955752.htm
Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay
SAN FRANCISCO - A mentally ill woman seen dropping her three sons into San
Francisco Bay from a downtown pier was charged with three counts of murder
Thursday while anguished relatives kept vigil and rescuers combed the chilly
water for the bodies of two of the victims.
Lashuan T. Harris, 23, of Oakland, was held in a hospital jail ward after
police saw her pushing an empty baby stroller away from the pier where a
witness reported spotting a woman drop the children off the end Wednesday
night.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
25 Oct 2005 03:53:06 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:24:17 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<g92rl1p52itrv7b37aoqefk4p31argvppi@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:36:27 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:28:29 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<tnkpl1pgh8p6aoditlg0458uk1ael0ibt1@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:02:48 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
At some point the results of a trial must be accepted as valid.
Otherwise there is no basis for either fining or jailing anyone based
upon that trial. Are you saying some convictions mean punishment and
some do not?
The results are valid, the jury voted, and sentence was imposed.
My point is that juries make mistakes. Prosecutors make mistakes. The
police make mistakes. Killing someone who was convicted by a system
which made numerous errors is not right.
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
25 Oct 2005 08:21:14 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:53:06 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<oisrl1tvkq382e25vpcpv7i22pu9fa28a9@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:24:17 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<g92rl1p52itrv7b37aoqefk4p31argvppi@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:36:27 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:28:29 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<tnkpl1pgh8p6aoditlg0458uk1ael0ibt1@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:02:48 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
At some point the results of a trial must be accepted as valid.
Otherwise there is no basis for either fining or jailing anyone based
upon that trial. Are you saying some convictions mean punishment and
some do not?
The results are valid, the jury voted, and sentence was imposed.
My point is that juries make mistakes. Prosecutors make mistakes. The
police make mistakes. Killing someone who was convicted by a system
which made numerous errors is not right.
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 04:04:36 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:21:14 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n9csl1p8lilb4v9euea4idtpn3q6906uqo@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:53:06 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<oisrl1tvkq382e25vpcpv7i22pu9fa28a9@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:24:17 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<g92rl1p52itrv7b37aoqefk4p31argvppi@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:36:27 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:28:29 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<tnkpl1pgh8p6aoditlg0458uk1ael0ibt1@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:02:48 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
At some point the results of a trial must be accepted as valid.
Otherwise there is no basis for either fining or jailing anyone based
upon that trial. Are you saying some convictions mean punishment and
some do not?
The results are valid, the jury voted, and sentence was imposed.
My point is that juries make mistakes. Prosecutors make mistakes. The
police make mistakes. Killing someone who was convicted by a system
which made numerous errors is not right.
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 10:59:31 AM |
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Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
"Social order".
That's the reason the Chinese government uses when it imposes
censorship and makes dissent illegal.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 08:18:32 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:59:31 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djo952$nhb$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
"Social order".
That's the reason the Chinese government uses when it imposes
censorship and makes dissent illegal.
That is the reason every government gives for doing almost everything.
Currently in the US it is Bush and his "New World Order". In the past
it was called other things. The Great Society. The New Deal. And so
on.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 07:34:49 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:04:36 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<cjhul1dk1hl8kg79ie0j4r8sfsl0s29cni@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:21:14 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n9csl1p8lilb4v9euea4idtpn3q6906uqo@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:53:06 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<oisrl1tvkq382e25vpcpv7i22pu9fa28a9@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:24:17 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<g92rl1p52itrv7b37aoqefk4p31argvppi@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:36:27 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:28:29 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<tnkpl1pgh8p6aoditlg0458uk1ael0ibt1@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:02:48 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
At some point the results of a trial must be accepted as valid.
Otherwise there is no basis for either fining or jailing anyone based
upon that trial. Are you saying some convictions mean punishment and
some do not?
The results are valid, the jury voted, and sentence was imposed.
My point is that juries make mistakes. Prosecutors make mistakes. The
police make mistakes. Killing someone who was convicted by a system
which made numerous errors is not right.
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 10:34:12 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:34:49 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<iutul1d8vqomvmqaej1ut223uslu4vdmij@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:04:36 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<cjhul1dk1hl8kg79ie0j4r8sfsl0s29cni@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:21:14 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n9csl1p8lilb4v9euea4idtpn3q6906uqo@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:53:06 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<oisrl1tvkq382e25vpcpv7i22pu9fa28a9@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:24:17 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<g92rl1p52itrv7b37aoqefk4p31argvppi@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:36:27 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:28:29 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<tnkpl1pgh8p6aoditlg0458uk1ael0ibt1@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:02:48 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
At some point the results of a trial must be accepted as valid.
Otherwise there is no basis for either fining or jailing anyone based
upon that trial. Are you saying some convictions mean punishment and
some do not?
The results are valid, the jury voted, and sentence was imposed.
My point is that juries make mistakes. Prosecutors make mistakes. The
police make mistakes. Killing someone who was convicted by a system
which made numerous errors is not right.
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 11:00:20 AM |
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Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
As the Chinese government showed us at Tiananmen Square.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 08:14:06 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:00:20 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djo96k$niu$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
As the Chinese government showed us at Tiananmen Square.
Oh? Those were executions of convicted and sentenced prisoners?
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 11:22:36 AM |
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Attila <Attila> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
As the Chinese government showed us at Tiananmen Square.
Oh? Those were executions of convicted and sentenced prisoners?
Setting up sham courts in order to "convict" people is the first step.
Pretty soon they discover that the expense of a trial isn't really
necessary if you're going to kill someone anyway.
Yes, China uses sham courts to imprison and kill people for
threatening "social order".
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 03:08:48 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:22:36 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djqusc$fbu$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
(Ray Fischer)
Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
As the Chinese government showed us at Tiananmen Square.
Oh? Those were executions of convicted and sentenced prisoners?
Setting up sham courts in order to "convict" people is the first step.
Pretty soon they discover that the expense of a trial isn't really
necessary if you're going to kill someone anyway.
Yes, China uses sham courts to imprison and kill people for
threatening "social order".
Isn't that the business of China? Why should anyone else become
involved?
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 03:26:57 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:08:48 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<usc2m197j26k8qfsql292aee8so5pmal7v@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:22:36 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djqusc$fbu$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
(Ray Fischer)
Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
As the Chinese government showed us at Tiananmen Square.
Oh? Those were executions of convicted and sentenced prisoners?
Setting up sham courts in order to "convict" people is the first step.
Pretty soon they discover that the expense of a trial isn't really
necessary if you're going to kill someone anyway.
Yes, China uses sham courts to imprison and kill people for
threatening "social order".
Isn't that the business of China? Why should anyone else become
involved?
So you were opposed to the invasion of Iraq.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 05:23:03 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:26:57 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<10e2m1hhfr0ov8dtgl13uvt142ut9utdb4@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:08:48 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<usc2m197j26k8qfsql292aee8so5pmal7v@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:22:36 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djqusc$fbu$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
(Ray Fischer)
Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
As the Chinese government showed us at Tiananmen Square.
Oh? Those were executions of convicted and sentenced prisoners?
Setting up sham courts in order to "convict" people is the first step.
Pretty soon they discover that the expense of a trial isn't really
necessary if you're going to kill someone anyway.
Yes, China uses sham courts to imprison and kill people for
threatening "social order".
Isn't that the business of China? Why should anyone else become
involved?
So you were opposed to the invasion of Iraq.
Not really. There is a direct and active threat from that part of the
world from people who already have made attacks. I don't think it is
being done properly.
As far as I know that is not true of China.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 07:16:09 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:23:03 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1nk2m11dssui1mnesee33d21ist61gp3fn@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:26:57 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<10e2m1hhfr0ov8dtgl13uvt142ut9utdb4@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:08:48 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<usc2m197j26k8qfsql292aee8so5pmal7v@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:22:36 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djqusc$fbu$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
(Ray Fischer)
Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
As the Chinese government showed us at Tiananmen Square.
Oh? Those were executions of convicted and sentenced prisoners?
Setting up sham courts in order to "convict" people is the first step.
Pretty soon they discover that the expense of a trial isn't really
necessary if you're going to kill someone anyway.
Yes, China uses sham courts to imprison and kill people for
threatening "social order".
Isn't that the business of China? Why should anyone else become
involved?
So you were opposed to the invasion of Iraq.
Not really. There is a direct and active threat from that part of the
world from people who already have made attacks. I don't think it is
being done properly.
You know that Saddam was not a threat to us.
As far as I know that is not true of China.
Are you serious?
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 09:41:33 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:16:09 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<0dr2m159b8bdg2s6h28m2cjntpd5j7meu7@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:23:03 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1nk2m11dssui1mnesee33d21ist61gp3fn@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:26:57 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<10e2m1hhfr0ov8dtgl13uvt142ut9utdb4@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:08:48 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<usc2m197j26k8qfsql292aee8so5pmal7v@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:22:36 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djqusc$fbu$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
(Ray Fischer)
Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
As the Chinese government showed us at Tiananmen Square.
Oh? Those were executions of convicted and sentenced prisoners?
Setting up sham courts in order to "convict" people is the first step.
Pretty soon they discover that the expense of a trial isn't really
necessary if you're going to kill someone anyway.
Yes, China uses sham courts to imprison and kill people for
threatening "social order".
Isn't that the business of China? Why should anyone else become
involved?
So you were opposed to the invasion of Iraq.
Not really. There is a direct and active threat from that part of the
world from people who already have made attacks. I don't think it is
being done properly.
You know that Saddam was not a threat to us.
No, but he helped support a culture of terrorism that is. With money,
supplies, and training.
As far as I know that is not true of China.
Are you serious?
Yes. China still has nukes but we are more tied together with trade
than ever. And money always has power.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 10:09:36 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:41:33 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<0n33m1pj4p43auat403hbksil6veveodbe@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:16:09 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<0dr2m159b8bdg2s6h28m2cjntpd5j7meu7@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:23:03 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1nk2m11dssui1mnesee33d21ist61gp3fn@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:26:57 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<10e2m1hhfr0ov8dtgl13uvt142ut9utdb4@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:08:48 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<usc2m197j26k8qfsql292aee8so5pmal7v@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:22:36 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djqusc$fbu$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
(Ray Fischer)
Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
As the Chinese government showed us at Tiananmen Square.
Oh? Those were executions of convicted and sentenced prisoners?
Setting up sham courts in order to "convict" people is the first step.
Pretty soon they discover that the expense of a trial isn't really
necessary if you're going to kill someone anyway.
Yes, China uses sham courts to imprison and kill people for
threatening "social order".
Isn't that the business of China? Why should anyone else become
involved?
So you were opposed to the invasion of Iraq.
Not really. There is a direct and active threat from that part of the
world from people who already have made attacks. I don't think it is
being done properly.
You know that Saddam was not a threat to us.
No, but he helped support a culture of terrorism that is. With money,
supplies, and training.
You seem to have forgotten that his movement was secular and strongly
opposed to the religious zealots -- it was Saudi Arabia that was funding
the culture of terrorism.
As far as I know that is not true of China.
Are you serious?
Yes. China still has nukes but we are more tied together with trade
than ever. And money always has power.
Cynical to the end, I see.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
28 Oct 2005 12:57:06 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:09:36 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<c253m152gstm7pc5vk9qb383460evb6iv8@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:41:33 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<0n33m1pj4p43auat403hbksil6veveodbe@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:16:09 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<0dr2m159b8bdg2s6h28m2cjntpd5j7meu7@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:23:03 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1nk2m11dssui1mnesee33d21ist61gp3fn@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:26:57 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<10e2m1hhfr0ov8dtgl13uvt142ut9utdb4@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:08:48 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<usc2m197j26k8qfsql292aee8so5pmal7v@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:22:36 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djqusc$fbu$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
(Ray Fischer)
Attila <Attila> wrote:
David Jensen
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
As the Chinese government showed us at Tiananmen Square.
Oh? Those were executions of convicted and sentenced prisoners?
Setting up sham courts in order to "convict" people is the first step.
Pretty soon they discover that the expense of a trial isn't really
necessary if you're going to kill someone anyway.
Yes, China uses sham courts to imprison and kill people for
threatening "social order".
Isn't that the business of China? Why should anyone else become
involved?
So you were opposed to the invasion of Iraq.
Not really. There is a direct and active threat from that part of the
world from people who already have made attacks. I don't think it is
being done properly.
You know that Saddam was not a threat to us.
No, but he helped support a culture of terrorism that is. With money,
supplies, and training.
You seem to have forgotten that his movement was secular and strongly
opposed to the religious zealots -- it was Saudi Arabia that was funding
the culture of terrorism.
I realize they have been ignored by several administrations. It is
past time to remedy that.
As far as I know that is not true of China.
Are you serious?
Yes. China still has nukes but we are more tied together with trade
than ever. And money always has power.
Cynical to the end, I see.
Realistic.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 11:34:55 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:34:12 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ve8vl1p2ao037msd4oa0d7di8mvg45jd6v@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:34:49 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<iutul1d8vqomvmqaej1ut223uslu4vdmij@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:04:36 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<cjhul1dk1hl8kg79ie0j4r8sfsl0s29cni@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:21:14 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n9csl1p8lilb4v9euea4idtpn3q6906uqo@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:53:06 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<oisrl1tvkq382e25vpcpv7i22pu9fa28a9@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:24:17 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<g92rl1p52itrv7b37aoqefk4p31argvppi@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:36:27 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:28:29 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<tnkpl1pgh8p6aoditlg0458uk1ael0ibt1@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:02:48 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
At some point the results of a trial must be accepted as valid.
Otherwise there is no basis for either fining or jailing anyone based
upon that trial. Are you saying some convictions mean punishment and
some do not?
The results are valid, the jury voted, and sentence was imposed.
My point is that juries make mistakes. Prosecutors make mistakes. The
police make mistakes. Killing someone who was convicted by a system
which made numerous errors is not right.
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
Why should the government kill its own citizens?
When those citizens are a threat to the social order and safety of
other citizens.
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
I'm not willing to have the state execute innocent people in my name.
Now you may not care if innocent people are executed and George Bush
certainly hasn't cared if the people he executed were innocent, but that
is why the civilized world thinks we are morally backward here.
It's not that I like these people. I didn't complain when Dahmer was
killed in prison. I haven't complained that his killers haven't been
'found', but I don't see any reason we should be a third world nation on
this.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 08:16:14 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:34:55 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<iqbvl1tt7qdro1ckitv4npagrvrlk8h0hj@4ax.com> wrote:
That's what prison does.
But execution does it better.
I'm not willing to have the state execute innocent people in my name.
The state does what the majority of it's citizens want done. Not what
one individual wants.
Now you may not care if innocent people are executed and George Bush
certainly hasn't cared if the people he executed were innocent, but that
is why the civilized world thinks we are morally backward here.
Almost everybody who refers to "moral"
means "what I think that you should do".
It's not that I like these people. I didn't complain when Dahmer was
killed in prison. I haven't complained that his killers haven't been
'found', but I don't see any reason we should be a third world nation on
this.
We aren't.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
25 Oct 2005 09:45:56 AM |
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What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:53:06 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
That's not an answer. We have two options:
1. Executions, which cannot be called back if the person executed is
later proven innocent, or
2. Imprisonment, which we can revoke if the prisoner is found to be
innocent of what he was charged with in the first place.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 04:06:28 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:45:56 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n6hsl1hnopecql6p96rpfdugmf4kv0bq1g@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:53:06 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
That's not an answer. We have two options:
1. Executions, which cannot be called back if the person executed is
later proven innocent, or
I admit there can be error. Nothing is perfect and life is not fair.
2. Imprisonment, which we can revoke if the prisoner is found to be
innocent of what he was charged with in the first place.
Too expensive, there is the possibility of escape or the killing of
another prisoner, and the lack of deterrence execution would bring.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 11:01:42 AM |
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Attila <Attila> wrote:
Douglas Berry
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
That's not an answer. We have two options:
1. Executions, which cannot be called back if the person executed is
later proven innocent, or
I admit there can be error. Nothing is perfect and life is not fair.
That destroys your argument for executing people. So what if the
person escapes to commit another crime? So what if it costs more
to house the prisoner? "Nothing is perfect and life is not fair".
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 08:24:45 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:01:42 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djo995$nlp$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
Douglas Berry
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
That's not an answer. We have two options:
1. Executions, which cannot be called back if the person executed is
later proven innocent, or
I admit there can be error. Nothing is perfect and life is not fair.
That destroys your argument for executing people. So what if the
person escapes to commit another crime? So what if it costs more
to house the prisoner? "Nothing is perfect and life is not fair".
But it is possible to contain some exposure, and curtail some expense.
This is such an occasion.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 11:23:55 AM |
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Attila <Attila> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:01:42 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djo995$nlp$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
Douglas Berry
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
That's not an answer. We have two options:
1. Executions, which cannot be called back if the person executed is
later proven innocent, or
I admit there can be error. Nothing is perfect and life is not fair.
That destroys your argument for executing people. So what if the
person escapes to commit another crime? So what if it costs more
to house the prisoner? "Nothing is perfect and life is not fair".
But it is possible to contain some exposure, and curtail some expense.
This is such an occasion.
Likewise we could eliminate trials and prisons by simply having he
police summarily execute anybody caught committing a crime.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 03:13:42 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:23:55 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djquuq$feu$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:01:42 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djo995$nlp$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
Douglas Berry
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
That's not an answer. We have two options:
1. Executions, which cannot be called back if the person executed is
later proven innocent, or
I admit there can be error. Nothing is perfect and life is not fair.
That destroys your argument for executing people. So what if the
person escapes to commit another crime? So what if it costs more
to house the prisoner? "Nothing is perfect and life is not fair".
But it is possible to contain some exposure, and curtail some expense.
This is such an occasion.
Likewise we could eliminate trials and prisons by simply having he
police summarily execute anybody caught committing a crime.
How many times are you going to repeat this?
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 11:55:46 PM |
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Attila <Attila> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
Attila <Attila> wrote:
I admit there can be error. Nothing is perfect and life is not fair.
That destroys your argument for executing people. So what if the
person escapes to commit another crime? So what if it costs more
to house the prisoner? "Nothing is perfect and life is not fair".
But it is possible to contain some exposure, and curtail some expense.
This is such an occasion.
Likewise we could eliminate trials and prisons by simply having he
police summarily execute anybody caught committing a crime.
How many times are you going to repeat this?
How many times are you going to keep whining about expense?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
28 Oct 2005 12:58:53 PM |
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On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 04:55:46 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) in alt.abortion with message-id <djsb0h$np1$1@bolt.sonic.net>
wrote:
Attila <Attila> wrote:
(Ray Fischer)
Attila <Attila> wrote:
I admit there can be error. Nothing is perfect and life is not fair.
That destroys your argument for executing people. So what if the
person escapes to commit another crime? So what if it costs more
to house the prisoner? "Nothing is perfect and life is not fair".
But it is possible to contain some exposure, and curtail some expense.
This is such an occasion.
Likewise we could eliminate trials and prisons by simply having he
police summarily execute anybody caught committing a crime.
How many times are you going to repeat this?
How many times are you going to keep whining about expense?
As many as necessary. I am not whining.
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| User: "Asmodeus bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 06:49:26 PM |
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Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:elhul112te1t2uj37vvql4539n5kdt0ijh@4ax.com:
I admit there can be error.
I'm curious. Where did this gaggle of bed-wetters, Mimi and
whoever, all come from? alt.marxist.idiots?
--
/"\ ||
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Oderint Dum Metuant
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || VRWC Proud Life Member
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rightwingnation.com
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 07:35:32 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:06:28 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<elhul112te1t2uj37vvql4539n5kdt0ijh@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:45:56 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n6hsl1hnopecql6p96rpfdugmf4kv0bq1g@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:53:06 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
That's not an answer. We have two options:
1. Executions, which cannot be called back if the person executed is
later proven innocent, or
I admit there can be error. Nothing is perfect and life is not fair.
But you don't care.
2. Imprisonment, which we can revoke if the prisoner is found to be
innocent of what he was charged with in the first place.
Too expensive, there is the possibility of escape or the killing of
another prisoner, and the lack of deterrence execution would bring.
If expense is what matters to you, life imprisonment is cheaper.
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 08:36:09 AM |
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"David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:kvtul1dsotaq6ig8cakqec110ka6bijtis@4ax.com...
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:06:28 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<elhul112te1t2uj37vvql4539n5kdt0ijh@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:45:56 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n6hsl1hnopecql6p96rpfdugmf4kv0bq1g@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:53:06 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
No system is perfect. I do not agree the elimination of the death
penalty would result in an improvement.
Well, we'd be sure not to kill an innocent person... you don't
consider that an improvement?
Everything in life carries risk. Including this.
That's not an answer. We have two options:
1. Executions, which cannot be called back if the person executed is
later proven innocent, or
I admit there can be error. Nothing is perfect and life is not fair.
But you don't care.
2. Imprisonment, which we can revoke if the prisoner is found to be
innocent of what he was charged with in the first place.
Too expensive, there is the possibility of escape or the killing of
another prisoner, and the lack of deterrence execution would bring.
If expense is what matters to you, life imprisonment is cheaper.
How much does it cost on average annually, to keep one inmate in prison?
.
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