Science > Abortion > Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
20 Oct 2005 11:27:02 PM |
| Object: |
Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
This woman should claim that she was only exercising her "right to choose"
and have the ACLU represent her in court.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12955752.htm
Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay
SAN FRANCISCO - A mentally ill woman seen dropping her three sons into San
Francisco Bay from a downtown pier was charged with three counts of murder
Thursday while anguished relatives kept vigil and rescuers combed the chilly
water for the bodies of two of the victims.
Lashuan T. Harris, 23, of Oakland, was held in a hospital jail ward after
police saw her pushing an empty baby stroller away from the pier where a
witness reported spotting a woman drop the children off the end Wednesday
night.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 08:51:26 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:45:25 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<2dcvl1d6vk6qvunrqqofdfcbt1ku1e8hq5@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:52:40 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<va9vl1hfq46ghapprn6agupr747m2lgcfr@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:53:38 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<sruul19fpqdnaq6hn6ph514e4aka86hpuh@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:17:24 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<m6iul11i0m1t572v3pg4etvb96hj0keoeb@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:27:51 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<rr8sl1thk4nr0gj1c9hp9ngt3hfu5pkhkk@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:05:55 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<3vsrl1hqns4kopff893g7d5iocrlpu7sks@4ax.com>:
...
If that does not exist then fix the system. Don't break another par
of it.
It isn't broken, it's just the court mandated alternative.
Eliminating the death penalty would break the sentencing process.
How? Many states do just fine without the death penalty.
That is a matter of opinion. I do not agree.
What not? What leads you to the opinion you have. Texas loves to kill
its citizens. Do you seriously think this has improved its quality of
life? If so, how? Which states that don't have the death penalty have
unusual problems because of that lack?
Yet not one ingle executed criminal has committed a crime or cost the
government any additional expense.
...
I do not agree the fix for any part of the system that is not working
properly involves breaking another part.
It's not broken.
Correct. The death penalty still stands.
Why?
Because the majority supports it.
The majority at one time or another has supported a lot of stupid,
bigoted, evil, and nasty things. The majority is no argument for
anything.
The wishes of the majority is the basis upon which our government is
built.
I have always supported the death penalty, I support the death penalty
today, and I will always support the death penalty.
Yes. I've heard that. For what it's worth, many people who are concerned
about the rights of the accused tolerate the death penalty because the
Supreme Court is much more concerned about protecting civil liberties in
death penalty cases than in other criminal cases. If you are a DA and
want to railroad someone, don't ask for the death penalty, you might get
caught.
That could happen in any case. But we are not addressing that
subject.
But the death penalty is inextricably bound up in this.
Not as far as I am concerned.
Then you don't understand the problem.
Yes. I do. I simply don't unnecessarily complicate it.
...
That is their business but they have no right to try to push that on
us.
But we have to live with the consequences of our decisions.
Of course. Is there a problem here?
I have no problem with sovereign nations saying that they will not
participate in the death penalty. That was your complaint.
Fine. But nothing says we must do any business of any kind with them
either.
We would be stupid not to.
Then why bother with treaties at all?
As long as America
refuses to act civilized in a number of other respects in addition to
the death penalty, there is no chance that these countries will
reconsider their attitude about us.
Attitude is irrelevant. They can dislike whatever they please.
If they legally refuse to extradite under existing agreements then
sanctions should be imposed. Trade embargos, economic restrictions
and limitations, things like that. To start.
More simplistic nonsense.
Not really.
Their treaties allow them not to extradict. You are the one who is
trying to overturn the treaties.
Two parties must sign a treaty and the US should never ever sign such
a treaty. If some anti-death penalty stealth moron does sign one the
Senate should refuse to ratify it.
I see no reason anyone should take your advice on this. Your unthinking
support of capital punishment is unpersuasive.
I am certain nothing would ever convince you to support the death
penalty. As nothing would ever convince me not to.
And you would reject my reasons about as fast as I reject your's.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 10:56:49 AM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:51:26 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<iim1m197plv93brbnn34p59dcmjd2s1k6v@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:45:25 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<2dcvl1d6vk6qvunrqqofdfcbt1ku1e8hq5@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:52:40 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<va9vl1hfq46ghapprn6agupr747m2lgcfr@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:53:38 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<sruul19fpqdnaq6hn6ph514e4aka86hpuh@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:17:24 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<m6iul11i0m1t572v3pg4etvb96hj0keoeb@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:27:51 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<rr8sl1thk4nr0gj1c9hp9ngt3hfu5pkhkk@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:05:55 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<3vsrl1hqns4kopff893g7d5iocrlpu7sks@4ax.com>:
...
If that does not exist then fix the system. Don't break another par
of it.
It isn't broken, it's just the court mandated alternative.
Eliminating the death penalty would break the sentencing process.
How? Many states do just fine without the death penalty.
That is a matter of opinion. I do not agree.
What not? What leads you to the opinion you have. Texas loves to kill
its citizens. Do you seriously think this has improved its quality of
life? If so, how? Which states that don't have the death penalty have
unusual problems because of that lack?
Yet not one ingle executed criminal has committed a crime or cost the
government any additional expense.
And you don't care about the innocents who were executed. Why do you
hate the rule of law?
...
I do not agree the fix for any part of the system that is not working
properly involves breaking another part.
It's not broken.
Correct. The death penalty still stands.
Why?
Because the majority supports it.
The majority at one time or another has supported a lot of stupid,
bigoted, evil, and nasty things. The majority is no argument for
anything.
The wishes of the majority is the basis upon which our government is
built.
That is not correct. I'm not aware of any time in American history that
it was.
I have always supported the death penalty, I support the death penalty
today, and I will always support the death penalty.
Yes. I've heard that. For what it's worth, many people who are concerned
about the rights of the accused tolerate the death penalty because the
Supreme Court is much more concerned about protecting civil liberties in
death penalty cases than in other criminal cases. If you are a DA and
want to railroad someone, don't ask for the death penalty, you might get
caught.
That could happen in any case. But we are not addressing that
subject.
But the death penalty is inextricably bound up in this.
Not as far as I am concerned.
Then you don't understand the problem.
Yes. I do. I simply don't unnecessarily complicate it.
You haven't explained why the death penalty is necessary in your view of
the world.
...
That is their business but they have no right to try to push that on
us.
But we have to live with the consequences of our decisions.
Of course. Is there a problem here?
I have no problem with sovereign nations saying that they will not
participate in the death penalty. That was your complaint.
Fine. But nothing says we must do any business of any kind with them
either.
We would be stupid not to.
Then why bother with treaties at all?
George Bush does not. He has violated a number of treaties, including
NAFTA.
As long as America
refuses to act civilized in a number of other respects in addition to
the death penalty, there is no chance that these countries will
reconsider their attitude about us.
Attitude is irrelevant. They can dislike whatever they please.
If they legally refuse to extradite under existing agreements then
sanctions should be imposed. Trade embargos, economic restrictions
and limitations, things like that. To start.
More simplistic nonsense.
Not really.
Their treaties allow them not to extradict. You are the one who is
trying to overturn the treaties.
Two parties must sign a treaty and the US should never ever sign such
a treaty. If some anti-death penalty stealth moron does sign one the
Senate should refuse to ratify it.
I see no reason anyone should take your advice on this. Your unthinking
support of capital punishment is unpersuasive.
I am certain nothing would ever convince you to support the death
penalty. As nothing would ever convince me not to.
And you would reject my reasons about as fast as I reject your's.
I have no idea. You haven't given any reasons.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 03:25:35 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:56:49 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<dut1m1tpf33g67qs55usarm6gf3d7onjku@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:51:26 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<iim1m197plv93brbnn34p59dcmjd2s1k6v@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:45:25 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<2dcvl1d6vk6qvunrqqofdfcbt1ku1e8hq5@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:52:40 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<va9vl1hfq46ghapprn6agupr747m2lgcfr@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:53:38 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<sruul19fpqdnaq6hn6ph514e4aka86hpuh@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:17:24 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<m6iul11i0m1t572v3pg4etvb96hj0keoeb@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:27:51 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<rr8sl1thk4nr0gj1c9hp9ngt3hfu5pkhkk@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:05:55 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<3vsrl1hqns4kopff893g7d5iocrlpu7sks@4ax.com>:
...
If that does not exist then fix the system. Don't break another par
of it.
It isn't broken, it's just the court mandated alternative.
Eliminating the death penalty would break the sentencing process.
How? Many states do just fine without the death penalty.
That is a matter of opinion. I do not agree.
What not? What leads you to the opinion you have. Texas loves to kill
its citizens. Do you seriously think this has improved its quality of
life? If so, how? Which states that don't have the death penalty have
unusual problems because of that lack?
Yet not one ingle executed criminal has committed a crime or cost the
government any additional expense.
And you don't care about the innocents who were executed. Why do you
hate the rule of law?
I don't. I advocate its use as required.
Including the death penalty.
...
I do not agree the fix for any part of the system that is not working
properly involves breaking another part.
It's not broken.
Correct. The death penalty still stands.
Why?
Because the majority supports it.
The majority at one time or another has supported a lot of stupid,
bigoted, evil, and nasty things. The majority is no argument for
anything.
The wishes of the majority is the basis upon which our government is
built.
That is not correct. I'm not aware of any time in American history that
it was.
Interesting. I thought laws were passed by a legislature, which was
elected by the people by counting votes as giving the job to the one
who gets the most.
I have always supported the death penalty, I support the death penalty
today, and I will always support the death penalty.
Yes. I've heard that. For what it's worth, many people who are concerned
about the rights of the accused tolerate the death penalty because the
Supreme Court is much more concerned about protecting civil liberties in
death penalty cases than in other criminal cases. If you are a DA and
want to railroad someone, don't ask for the death penalty, you might get
caught.
That could happen in any case. But we are not addressing that
subject.
But the death penalty is inextricably bound up in this.
Not as far as I am concerned.
Then you don't understand the problem.
Yes. I do. I simply don't unnecessarily complicate it.
You haven't explained why the death penalty is necessary in your view of
the world.
Yes, I have. Several times. Once more for the text file:
1. No executed criminal has ever committed another crime.
2. It eliminates the expense of keeping someone in jail for life.
...
That is their business but they have no right to try to push that on
us.
But we have to live with the consequences of our decisions.
Of course. Is there a problem here?
I have no problem with sovereign nations saying that they will not
participate in the death penalty. That was your complaint.
Fine. But nothing says we must do any business of any kind with them
either.
We would be stupid not to.
Then why bother with treaties at all?
George Bush does not. He has violated a number of treaties, including
NAFTA.
That was not the question.
As long as America
refuses to act civilized in a number of other respects in addition to
the death penalty, there is no chance that these countries will
reconsider their attitude about us.
Attitude is irrelevant. They can dislike whatever they please.
If they legally refuse to extradite under existing agreements then
sanctions should be imposed. Trade embargos, economic restrictions
and limitations, things like that. To start.
More simplistic nonsense.
Not really.
Their treaties allow them not to extradict. You are the one who is
trying to overturn the treaties.
Two parties must sign a treaty and the US should never ever sign such
a treaty. If some anti-death penalty stealth moron does sign one the
Senate should refuse to ratify it.
I see no reason anyone should take your advice on this. Your unthinking
support of capital punishment is unpersuasive.
I am certain nothing would ever convince you to support the death
penalty. As nothing would ever convince me not to.
And you would reject my reasons about as fast as I reject your's.
I have no idea. You haven't given any reasons.
I have listed them several times. There are only two.
.
|
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| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 03:43:37 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:25:35 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ghd2m15jegibb7t6d9bbidn5lbn9r69r7k@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:56:49 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<dut1m1tpf33g67qs55usarm6gf3d7onjku@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:51:26 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<iim1m197plv93brbnn34p59dcmjd2s1k6v@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:45:25 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<2dcvl1d6vk6qvunrqqofdfcbt1ku1e8hq5@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:52:40 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<va9vl1hfq46ghapprn6agupr747m2lgcfr@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:53:38 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<sruul19fpqdnaq6hn6ph514e4aka86hpuh@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:17:24 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<m6iul11i0m1t572v3pg4etvb96hj0keoeb@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:27:51 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<rr8sl1thk4nr0gj1c9hp9ngt3hfu5pkhkk@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:05:55 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<3vsrl1hqns4kopff893g7d5iocrlpu7sks@4ax.com>:
...
If that does not exist then fix the system. Don't break another par
of it.
It isn't broken, it's just the court mandated alternative.
Eliminating the death penalty would break the sentencing process.
How? Many states do just fine without the death penalty.
That is a matter of opinion. I do not agree.
What not? What leads you to the opinion you have. Texas loves to kill
its citizens. Do you seriously think this has improved its quality of
life? If so, how? Which states that don't have the death penalty have
unusual problems because of that lack?
Yet not one ingle executed criminal has committed a crime or cost the
government any additional expense.
And you don't care about the innocents who were executed. Why do you
hate the rule of law?
I don't. I advocate its use as required.
Including the death penalty.
The rule of law does not need the death penalty. The vast majority of
developed nations manage quite well without it.
...
I do not agree the fix for any part of the system that is not working
properly involves breaking another part.
It's not broken.
Correct. The death penalty still stands.
Why?
Because the majority supports it.
The majority at one time or another has supported a lot of stupid,
bigoted, evil, and nasty things. The majority is no argument for
anything.
The wishes of the majority is the basis upon which our government is
built.
That is not correct. I'm not aware of any time in American history that
it was.
Interesting. I thought laws were passed by a legislature, which was
elected by the people by counting votes as giving the job to the one
who gets the most.
But there is also a constitution that explicitly protects minority
rights.
....
Then you don't understand the problem.
Yes. I do. I simply don't unnecessarily complicate it.
You haven't explained why the death penalty is necessary in your view of
the world.
Yes, I have. Several times. Once more for the text file:
1. No executed criminal has ever committed another crime.
Is that supposed to be an argument for the death penalty? Why?
2. It eliminates the expense of keeping someone in jail for life.
So what?
Do you propose that we kill everyone who was convicted of a felony? If
those are your arguments, that seems to be what you need.
....
We would be stupid not to.
Then why bother with treaties at all?
George Bush does not. He has violated a number of treaties, including
NAFTA.
That was not the question.
If you can show that any countries have violated their treaties with us,
let us know.
As long as America
refuses to act civilized in a number of other respects in addition to
the death penalty, there is no chance that these countries will
reconsider their attitude about us.
Attitude is irrelevant. They can dislike whatever they please.
If they legally refuse to extradite under existing agreements then
sanctions should be imposed. Trade embargos, economic restrictions
and limitations, things like that. To start.
More simplistic nonsense.
Not really.
Their treaties allow them not to extradict. You are the one who is
trying to overturn the treaties.
Two parties must sign a treaty and the US should never ever sign such
a treaty. If some anti-death penalty stealth moron does sign one the
Senate should refuse to ratify it.
I see no reason anyone should take your advice on this. Your unthinking
support of capital punishment is unpersuasive.
I am certain nothing would ever convince you to support the death
penalty. As nothing would ever convince me not to.
And you would reject my reasons about as fast as I reject your's.
I have no idea. You haven't given any reasons.
I have listed them several times. There are only two.
Again, I ask if you propose that we kill everyone who has ever been
convicted of a felony? If those are your arguments, that seems to be
what you want.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 05:38:39 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:43:37 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<8ne2m1pijt2lksm96fkc94dgs3hc10msnm@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:25:35 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ghd2m15jegibb7t6d9bbidn5lbn9r69r7k@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:56:49 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<dut1m1tpf33g67qs55usarm6gf3d7onjku@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:51:26 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<iim1m197plv93brbnn34p59dcmjd2s1k6v@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:45:25 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<2dcvl1d6vk6qvunrqqofdfcbt1ku1e8hq5@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:52:40 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<va9vl1hfq46ghapprn6agupr747m2lgcfr@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:53:38 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<sruul19fpqdnaq6hn6ph514e4aka86hpuh@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:17:24 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<m6iul11i0m1t572v3pg4etvb96hj0keoeb@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:27:51 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<rr8sl1thk4nr0gj1c9hp9ngt3hfu5pkhkk@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:05:55 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<3vsrl1hqns4kopff893g7d5iocrlpu7sks@4ax.com>:
...
If that does not exist then fix the system. Don't break another par
of it.
It isn't broken, it's just the court mandated alternative.
Eliminating the death penalty would break the sentencing process.
How? Many states do just fine without the death penalty.
That is a matter of opinion. I do not agree.
What not? What leads you to the opinion you have. Texas loves to kill
its citizens. Do you seriously think this has improved its quality of
life? If so, how? Which states that don't have the death penalty have
unusual problems because of that lack?
Yet not one ingle executed criminal has committed a crime or cost the
government any additional expense.
And you don't care about the innocents who were executed. Why do you
hate the rule of law?
I don't. I advocate its use as required.
Including the death penalty.
The rule of law does not need the death penalty.
I disagree.
The vast majority of
developed nations manage quite well without it.
Whether they do or do not is irrelevant.
...
I do not agree the fix for any part of the system that is not working
properly involves breaking another part.
It's not broken.
Correct. The death penalty still stands.
Why?
Because the majority supports it.
The majority at one time or another has supported a lot of stupid,
bigoted, evil, and nasty things. The majority is no argument for
anything.
The wishes of the majority is the basis upon which our government is
built.
That is not correct. I'm not aware of any time in American history that
it was.
Interesting. I thought laws were passed by a legislature, which was
elected by the people by counting votes as giving the job to the one
who gets the most.
But there is also a constitution that explicitly protects minority
rights.
This is not a minority rights issue. And with the proper laws (and
Constitutional Amendments) anything can be made legal. And if the
majority want it they can elect enough people to do it.
...
Then you don't understand the problem.
Yes. I do. I simply don't unnecessarily complicate it.
You haven't explained why the death penalty is necessary in your view of
the world.
Yes, I have. Several times. Once more for the text file:
1. No executed criminal has ever committed another crime.
Is that supposed to be an argument for the death penalty? Why?
Can you read?
No executed criminal has ever committed another crime.
No elaboration is needed.
2. It eliminates the expense of keeping someone in jail for life.
So what?
So my taxes would decrease, which I consider a good thing.
Do you propose that we kill everyone who was convicted of a felony? If
those are your arguments, that seems to be what you need.
No, but I advocate a lot more executions than occur now.
...
We would be stupid not to.
Then why bother with treaties at all?
George Bush does not. He has violated a number of treaties, including
NAFTA.
That was not the question.
If you can show that any countries have violated their treaties with us,
let us know.
I have no idea and you know it. I am not an attorney and I do not
keep up with treaties.
Why are you trying to change the subject?
As long as America
refuses to act civilized in a number of other respects in addition to
the death penalty, there is no chance that these countries will
reconsider their attitude about us.
Attitude is irrelevant. They can dislike whatever they please.
If they legally refuse to extradite under existing agreements then
sanctions should be imposed. Trade embargos, economic restrictions
and limitations, things like that. To start.
More simplistic nonsense.
Not really.
Their treaties allow them not to extradict. You are the one who is
trying to overturn the treaties.
Two parties must sign a treaty and the US should never ever sign such
a treaty. If some anti-death penalty stealth moron does sign one the
Senate should refuse to ratify it.
I see no reason anyone should take your advice on this. Your unthinking
support of capital punishment is unpersuasive.
I am certain nothing would ever convince you to support the death
penalty. As nothing would ever convince me not to.
And you would reject my reasons about as fast as I reject your's.
I have no idea. You haven't given any reasons.
I have listed them several times. There are only two.
Again, I ask if you propose that we kill everyone who has ever been
convicted of a felony? If those are your arguments, that seems to be
what you want.
Answered earlier in this post. Do I really need to copy and paste
here?
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 07:26:57 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:38:39 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<7cl2m1tkmefeujmvr1etpsstevckl0v8ue@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:43:37 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<8ne2m1pijt2lksm96fkc94dgs3hc10msnm@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:25:35 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ghd2m15jegibb7t6d9bbidn5lbn9r69r7k@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:56:49 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<dut1m1tpf33g67qs55usarm6gf3d7onjku@4ax.com> wrote:
....
And you don't care about the innocents who were executed. Why do you
hate the rule of law?
I don't. I advocate its use as required.
Including the death penalty.
The rule of law does not need the death penalty.
I disagree.
Yes, you do. Keep talking, I'm sure you are persuading many who are
uncertain that the death penalty is a bad idea.
The vast majority of
developed nations manage quite well without it.
Whether they do or do not is irrelevant.
To you. People who care about justice, on the other hand, have a
different opinion.
....
That is not correct. I'm not aware of any time in American history that
it was.
Interesting. I thought laws were passed by a legislature, which was
elected by the people by counting votes as giving the job to the one
who gets the most.
But there is also a constitution that explicitly protects minority
rights.
This is not a minority rights issue. And with the proper laws (and
Constitutional Amendments) anything can be made legal. And if the
majority want it they can elect enough people to do it.
Given the disparate impact of the death penalty on African-Americans, it
is a minority rights issue. You keep ignoring the racism inherent in the
death penalty in the United States.
...
Then you don't understand the problem.
Yes. I do. I simply don't unnecessarily complicate it.
You haven't explained why the death penalty is necessary in your view of
the world.
Yes, I have. Several times. Once more for the text file:
1. No executed criminal has ever committed another crime.
Is that supposed to be an argument for the death penalty? Why?
Can you read?
No executed criminal has ever committed another crime.
No elaboration is needed.
You have stated this and restated it. It is not a response to the
criticisms of the death penalty that people have made. It's just an
article of faith for you, a meaningless truism.
I wonder how many cops have died because criminals have decided to fight
it out rather than risk the death penalty.
2. It eliminates the expense of keeping someone in jail for life.
So what?
So my taxes would decrease, which I consider a good thing.
Right now, your taxes would not decrease, because we will not get rid of
fair trials or a fair appeals process.
Do you propose that we kill everyone who was convicted of a felony? If
those are your arguments, that seems to be what you need.
No, but I advocate a lot more executions than occur now.
What crimes do you want to be capital crimes?
...
We would be stupid not to.
Then why bother with treaties at all?
George Bush does not. He has violated a number of treaties, including
NAFTA.
That was not the question.
If you can show that any countries have violated their treaties with us,
let us know.
I have no idea and you know it. I am not an attorney and I do not
keep up with treaties.
Why are you trying to change the subject?
You brought up the alleged problem of treaties. I'm not changing the
subject.
....
I have no idea. You haven't given any reasons.
I have listed them several times. There are only two.
Again, I ask if you propose that we kill everyone who has ever been
convicted of a felony? If those are your arguments, that seems to be
what you want.
Answered earlier in this post. Do I really need to copy and paste
here?
No, though your first answer was quite vague.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 09:55:45 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:26:57 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<alr2m1hshrevpabhf51ue2278l9gump5g7@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:38:39 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<7cl2m1tkmefeujmvr1etpsstevckl0v8ue@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:43:37 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<8ne2m1pijt2lksm96fkc94dgs3hc10msnm@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:25:35 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ghd2m15jegibb7t6d9bbidn5lbn9r69r7k@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:56:49 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<dut1m1tpf33g67qs55usarm6gf3d7onjku@4ax.com> wrote:
...
And you don't care about the innocents who were executed. Why do you
hate the rule of law?
I don't. I advocate its use as required.
Including the death penalty.
The rule of law does not need the death penalty.
I disagree.
Yes, you do. Keep talking, I'm sure you are persuading many who are
uncertain that the death penalty is a bad idea.
I doubt it. If every person who reads this in any newsgroup all voted
the same way it would not show up in the fifth decimal place.
The vast majority of
developed nations manage quite well without it.
Whether they do or do not is irrelevant.
To you. People who care about justice, on the other hand, have a
different opinion.
I care about justice. I also care about expense and safety.
...
That is not correct. I'm not aware of any time in American history that
it was.
Interesting. I thought laws were passed by a legislature, which was
elected by the people by counting votes as giving the job to the one
who gets the most.
But there is also a constitution that explicitly protects minority
rights.
This is not a minority rights issue. And with the proper laws (and
Constitutional Amendments) anything can be made legal. And if the
majority want it they can elect enough people to do it.
Given the disparate impact of the death penalty on African-Americans, it
is a minority rights issue. You keep ignoring the racism inherent in the
death penalty in the United States.
Not considering who commits most of the crime.
...
Then you don't understand the problem.
Yes. I do. I simply don't unnecessarily complicate it.
You haven't explained why the death penalty is necessary in your view of
the world.
Yes, I have. Several times. Once more for the text file:
1. No executed criminal has ever committed another crime.
Is that supposed to be an argument for the death penalty? Why?
Can you read?
No executed criminal has ever committed another crime.
No elaboration is needed.
You have stated this and restated it. It is not a response to the
criticisms of the death penalty that people have made. It's just an
article of faith for you, a meaningless truism.
It is hardly meaningless. It is a critical factor. One you can't get
around.
I wonder how many cops have died because criminals have decided to fight
it out rather than risk the death penalty.
And how many people have been killed in prison because the prisoner
was already in for life?
2. It eliminates the expense of keeping someone in jail for life.
So what?
So my taxes would decrease, which I consider a good thing.
Right now, your taxes would not decrease, because we will not get rid of
fair trials or a fair appeals process.
One can always hope. As well as work toward that end.
Do you propose that we kill everyone who was convicted of a felony? If
those are your arguments, that seems to be what you need.
No, but I advocate a lot more executions than occur now.
What crimes do you want to be capital crimes?
I have answered this twice already.
Murder, treason, drug dealing, rape, kidnapping come to mind. There
may be more.
Start with the current legal list.
...
We would be stupid not to.
Then why bother with treaties at all?
George Bush does not. He has violated a number of treaties, including
NAFTA.
That was not the question.
If you can show that any countries have violated their treaties with us,
let us know.
I have no idea and you know it. I am not an attorney and I do not
keep up with treaties.
Why are you trying to change the subject?
You brought up the alleged problem of treaties. I'm not changing the
subject.
In the context of extradition treaties. Not treaties in general or
George Bush.
...
I have no idea. You haven't given any reasons.
I have listed them several times. There are only two.
Again, I ask if you propose that we kill everyone who has ever been
convicted of a felony? If those are your arguments, that seems to be
what you want.
Answered earlier in this post. Do I really need to copy and paste
here?
No, though your first answer was quite vague.
No, it was specific.
What part of "no" seems to elude you?
.
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 05:29:43 PM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:38:39 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:39:12 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<9jpnl1lf90hqmsmub4t5e5cf5n9mlsmnhr@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:00:31 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<7o5nl1d4l7rvarr1m0t65us7llt0nodlql@4ax.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:59:25 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<jkuml11ajapnfnmhifnf91u5abp18jccdc@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:23:48 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<2rell11ksqu0q3u5sutqg59iv0rmq1ofs9@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Asmodeus
<bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 16:32:09 -0500 iin alt.atheism?
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:csall1pglbu7u9cdloaihdqeqr7v2095cr@4ax.com:
I am glad the US is still on the list.
Thank God for that.
My objection to the death penalty is based on the fact that the
justice system does make mistakes. Innocent people are convicted, and
then proven innocent years, if not decades later.
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
It's the best they can do. They can't give the person those years back.
But not a reason for the taxpayers to be soaked in case of error.
Who should pay for this miscarriage of justice? Isn't it bad enough that
the victim was imprisoned? I realize that you call yourself Attila, but
I doubt that even he was indifferent to whether his people perceived him
to be unjust.
He appropriately accorded himself that moniker.
With the death penalty, you can't rectifiy an error. In essence, the
state has murdered an innocent.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
If you are convicted of murder and sentenced to die, will you not care
whether you did it?
Of course I would. But I would not expect anyone else to do so.
That's the difference between you and civilized people.
Lock them up, and let them rot. It's cheaper too!
Not if the execution process is streamlined. How much does one bullet
cost?
Why bother with a justice system at all then.
The alternative is chaos.
But you advocate chaos under color of justice.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 05:09:43 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:29:43 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<ik3ol11uhmnamjile91gpmkemk5d573ru7@4ax.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:38:39 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:39:12 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<9jpnl1lf90hqmsmub4t5e5cf5n9mlsmnhr@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:00:31 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<7o5nl1d4l7rvarr1m0t65us7llt0nodlql@4ax.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:59:25 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<jkuml11ajapnfnmhifnf91u5abp18jccdc@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:23:48 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<2rell11ksqu0q3u5sutqg59iv0rmq1ofs9@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Asmodeus
<bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 16:32:09 -0500 iin alt.atheism?
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:csall1pglbu7u9cdloaihdqeqr7v2095cr@4ax.com:
I am glad the US is still on the list.
Thank God for that.
My objection to the death penalty is based on the fact that the
justice system does make mistakes. Innocent people are convicted, and
then proven innocent years, if not decades later.
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
It's the best they can do. They can't give the person those years back.
But not a reason for the taxpayers to be soaked in case of error.
Who should pay for this miscarriage of justice? Isn't it bad enough that
the victim was imprisoned? I realize that you call yourself Attila, but
I doubt that even he was indifferent to whether his people perceived him
to be unjust.
He appropriately accorded himself that moniker.
Doesn't everyone here do that? I am not fool enough to use my real
name - I have had at least two 'reverends' offer to help me die.
BTW, They were real - both of them have been in the national news.
With the death penalty, you can't rectifiy an error. In essence, the
state has murdered an innocent.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
If you are convicted of murder and sentenced to die, will you not care
whether you did it?
Of course I would. But I would not expect anyone else to do so.
That's the difference between you and civilized people.
Lock them up, and let them rot. It's cheaper too!
Not if the execution process is streamlined. How much does one bullet
cost?
Why bother with a justice system at all then.
The alternative is chaos.
But you advocate chaos under color of justice.
Answered elsewhere.
.
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 05:56:33 AM |
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:09:43 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:29:43 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<ik3ol11uhmnamjile91gpmkemk5d573ru7@4ax.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:38:39 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:39:12 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<9jpnl1lf90hqmsmub4t5e5cf5n9mlsmnhr@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:00:31 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<7o5nl1d4l7rvarr1m0t65us7llt0nodlql@4ax.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:59:25 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<jkuml11ajapnfnmhifnf91u5abp18jccdc@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:23:48 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<2rell11ksqu0q3u5sutqg59iv0rmq1ofs9@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Asmodeus
<bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 16:32:09 -0500 iin alt.atheism?
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:csall1pglbu7u9cdloaihdqeqr7v2095cr@4ax.com:
I am glad the US is still on the list.
Thank God for that.
My objection to the death penalty is based on the fact that the
justice system does make mistakes. Innocent people are convicted, and
then proven innocent years, if not decades later.
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
It's the best they can do. They can't give the person those years back.
But not a reason for the taxpayers to be soaked in case of error.
Who should pay for this miscarriage of justice? Isn't it bad enough that
the victim was imprisoned? I realize that you call yourself Attila, but
I doubt that even he was indifferent to whether his people perceived him
to be unjust.
He appropriately accorded himself that moniker.
Doesn't everyone here do that?
I did not complain about your use of one.
I did write that you afforded yourself the appropriate moniker of
"Attila." You could have chosen Jeanne d'Arc, and I'd have laughed.
With the death penalty, you can't rectifiy an error. In essence, the
state has murdered an innocent.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
If you are convicted of murder and sentenced to die, will you not care
whether you did it?
Of course I would. But I would not expect anyone else to do so.
That's the difference between you and civilized people.
Lock them up, and let them rot. It's cheaper too!
Not if the execution process is streamlined. How much does one bullet
cost?
Why bother with a justice system at all then.
The alternative is chaos.
But you advocate chaos under color of justice.
Answered elsewhere.
Proved it elsewhere.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 05:26:51 PM |
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:56:33 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<h8fpl1tisqirebkg2eg8d9nqapa7vupod6@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:09:43 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:29:43 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<ik3ol11uhmnamjile91gpmkemk5d573ru7@4ax.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:38:39 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:39:12 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<9jpnl1lf90hqmsmub4t5e5cf5n9mlsmnhr@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:00:31 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<7o5nl1d4l7rvarr1m0t65us7llt0nodlql@4ax.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:59:25 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<jkuml11ajapnfnmhifnf91u5abp18jccdc@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:23:48 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<2rell11ksqu0q3u5sutqg59iv0rmq1ofs9@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Asmodeus
<bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 16:32:09 -0500 iin alt.atheism?
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:csall1pglbu7u9cdloaihdqeqr7v2095cr@4ax.com:
I am glad the US is still on the list.
Thank God for that.
My objection to the death penalty is based on the fact that the
justice system does make mistakes. Innocent people are convicted, and
then proven innocent years, if not decades later.
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
It's the best they can do. They can't give the person those years back.
But not a reason for the taxpayers to be soaked in case of error.
Who should pay for this miscarriage of justice? Isn't it bad enough that
the victim was imprisoned? I realize that you call yourself Attila, but
I doubt that even he was indifferent to whether his people perceived him
to be unjust.
He appropriately accorded himself that moniker.
Doesn't everyone here do that?
I did not complain about your use of one.
I did write that you afforded yourself the appropriate moniker of
"Attila." You could have chosen Jeanne d'Arc, and I'd have laughed.
Sorry. I like a hot steak but it's the wrong sex. I prefer being "The
Scourge of God"
With the death penalty, you can't rectifiy an error. In essence, the
state has murdered an innocent.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
If you are convicted of murder and sentenced to die, will you not care
whether you did it?
Of course I would. But I would not expect anyone else to do so.
That's the difference between you and civilized people.
Lock them up, and let them rot. It's cheaper too!
Not if the execution process is streamlined. How much does one bullet
cost?
Why bother with a justice system at all then.
The alternative is chaos.
But you advocate chaos under color of justice.
Answered elsewhere.
Proved it elsewhere.
Not here. Not there.
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 07:30:57 AM |
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What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:09:43 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
Doesn't everyone here do that? I am not fool enough to use my real
name - I have had at least two 'reverends' offer to help me die.
I've been using my real name and real email address since I first got
on the net in 1993. Never had any problems.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 05:29:05 PM |
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:30:57 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<4vkpl1tfh56iqflt84ge311gbuuspe60tc@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:09:43 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
Doesn't everyone here do that? I am not fool enough to use my real
name - I have had at least two 'reverends' offer to help me die.
I've been using my real name and real email address since I first got
on the net in 1993. Never had any problems.
It seems I stepped on some holy toes along the way. These two are nut
cases. Messing around with abortion and religion both can be
dangerous and I simply don't want the personal hassle of an armed
guard.
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 08:27:12 PM |
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What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:29:05 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:30:57 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<4vkpl1tfh56iqflt84ge311gbuuspe60tc@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:09:43 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
Doesn't everyone here do that? I am not fool enough to use my real
name - I have had at least two 'reverends' offer to help me die.
I've been using my real name and real email address since I first got
on the net in 1993. Never had any problems.
It seems I stepped on some holy toes along the way. These two are nut
cases. Messing around with abortion and religion both can be
dangerous and I simply don't want the personal hassle of an armed
guard.
Huh. I've been on altatheism (off and on) since 1995 or so, and among
the other odd corners of Usenet I've hung out in are places like
alt.conspirracy and alt.fandom.cons, where I was part of the epic,
multi-year MOC flame war.
I've been threatened, and nothing has ever come for it. On one
memoriable occasion, some said that they'd come kill me if they ever
learned where I lived. I posted my complete address along with a link
to a Mapquest page showing exactly how to get to my house from SFO.
I'm still here.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
25 Oct 2005 03:59:03 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:27:12 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<oa2rl15b601qevj2s95ebjlft16p1ama9b@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:29:05 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:30:57 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<4vkpl1tfh56iqflt84ge311gbuuspe60tc@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:09:43 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
Doesn't everyone here do that? I am not fool enough to use my real
name - I have had at least two 'reverends' offer to help me die.
I've been using my real name and real email address since I first got
on the net in 1993. Never had any problems.
It seems I stepped on some holy toes along the way. These two are nut
cases. Messing around with abortion and religion both can be
dangerous and I simply don't want the personal hassle of an armed
guard.
Huh. I've been on altatheism (off and on) since 1995 or so, and among
the other odd corners of Usenet I've hung out in are places like
alt.conspirracy and alt.fandom.cons, where I was part of the epic,
multi-year MOC flame war.
I've been threatened, and nothing has ever come for it.
Nothing came of this either. But I have no intention of posting my
name and address here.
On one
memoriable occasion, some said that they'd come kill me if they ever
learned where I lived. I posted my complete address along with a link
to a Mapquest page showing exactly how to get to my house from SFO.
I'm still here.
I don't want the bother. There are too many anti-choice fanatics out
there.
.
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
25 Oct 2005 05:40:24 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:59:03 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:27:12 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<oa2rl15b601qevj2s95ebjlft16p1ama9b@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:29:05 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:30:57 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<4vkpl1tfh56iqflt84ge311gbuuspe60tc@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:09:43 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
Doesn't everyone here do that? I am not fool enough to use my real
name - I have had at least two 'reverends' offer to help me die.
I've been using my real name and real email address since I first got
on the net in 1993. Never had any problems.
It seems I stepped on some holy toes along the way. These two are nut
cases. Messing around with abortion and religion both can be
dangerous and I simply don't want the personal hassle of an armed
guard.
Huh. I've been on altatheism (off and on) since 1995 or so, and among
the other odd corners of Usenet I've hung out in are places like
alt.conspirracy and alt.fandom.cons, where I was part of the epic,
multi-year MOC flame war.
I've been threatened, and nothing has ever come for it.
Nothing came of this either. But I have no intention of posting my
name and address here.
Not necessary.
On one
memoriable occasion, some said that they'd come kill me if they ever
learned where I lived. I posted my complete address along with a link
to a Mapquest page showing exactly how to get to my house from SFO.
I'm still here.
I don't want the bother. There are too many anti-choice fanatics out
there.
You seem to be one of them (when it comes to the poor, anyway).
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 04:13:37 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:40:24 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<cr2sl194tbvuunvj9rp2kk2os69l2rhl4l@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:59:03 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:27:12 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<oa2rl15b601qevj2s95ebjlft16p1ama9b@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:29:05 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:30:57 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<4vkpl1tfh56iqflt84ge311gbuuspe60tc@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:09:43 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
Doesn't everyone here do that? I am not fool enough to use my real
name - I have had at least two 'reverends' offer to help me die.
I've been using my real name and real email address since I first got
on the net in 1993. Never had any problems.
It seems I stepped on some holy toes along the way. These two are nut
cases. Messing around with abortion and religion both can be
dangerous and I simply don't want the personal hassle of an armed
guard.
Huh. I've been on altatheism (off and on) since 1995 or so, and among
the other odd corners of Usenet I've hung out in are places like
alt.conspirracy and alt.fandom.cons, where I was part of the epic,
multi-year MOC flame war.
I've been threatened, and nothing has ever come for it.
Nothing came of this either. But I have no intention of posting my
name and address here.
Not necessary.
You won't see it either.
On one
memoriable occasion, some said that they'd come kill me if they ever
learned where I lived. I posted my complete address along with a link
to a Mapquest page showing exactly how to get to my house from SFO.
I'm still here.
I don't want the bother. There are too many anti-choice fanatics out
there.
You seem to be one of them (when it comes to the poor, anyway).
I have no idea where that came from I support the right of any
pregnant woman to choose whether to complete her pregnancy or
terminate it. With no restrictions.
.
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 04:36:18 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:13:37 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:40:24 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<cr2sl194tbvuunvj9rp2kk2os69l2rhl4l@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:59:03 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:27:12 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<oa2rl15b601qevj2s95ebjlft16p1ama9b@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:29:05 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:30:57 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<4vkpl1tfh56iqflt84ge311gbuuspe60tc@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:09:43 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
Doesn't everyone here do that? I am not fool enough to use my real
name - I have had at least two 'reverends' offer to help me die.
I've been using my real name and real email address since I first got
on the net in 1993. Never had any problems.
It seems I stepped on some holy toes along the way. These two are nut
cases. Messing around with abortion and religion both can be
dangerous and I simply don't want the personal hassle of an armed
guard.
Huh. I've been on altatheism (off and on) since 1995 or so, and among
the other odd corners of Usenet I've hung out in are places like
alt.conspirracy and alt.fandom.cons, where I was part of the epic,
multi-year MOC flame war.
I've been threatened, and nothing has ever come for it.
Nothing came of this either. But I have no intention of posting my
name and address here.
Not necessary.
You won't see it either.
Not that I'd want to know; you're scary enough, here, as it is.
On one
memoriable occasion, some said that they'd come kill me if they ever
learned where I lived. I posted my complete address along with a link
to a Mapquest page showing exactly how to get to my house from SFO.
I'm still here.
I don't want the bother. There are too many anti-choice fanatics out
there.
You seem to be one of them (when it comes to the poor, anyway).
I have no idea where that came from...
--from your posts.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 10:48:37 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:36:18 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<6djul1ld6h51fn0n8sgo9ukffdlr29ml7e@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:13:37 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:40:24 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<cr2sl194tbvuunvj9rp2kk2os69l2rhl4l@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:59:03 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:27:12 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<oa2rl15b601qevj2s95ebjlft16p1ama9b@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:29:05 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:30:57 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<4vkpl1tfh56iqflt84ge311gbuuspe60tc@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:09:43 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
Doesn't everyone here do that? I am not fool enough to use my real
name - I have had at least two 'reverends' offer to help me die.
I've been using my real name and real email address since I first got
on the net in 1993. Never had any problems.
It seems I stepped on some holy toes along the way. These two are nut
cases. Messing around with abortion and religion both can be
dangerous and I simply don't want the personal hassle of an armed
guard.
Huh. I've been on altatheism (off and on) since 1995 or so, and among
the other odd corners of Usenet I've hung out in are places like
alt.conspirracy and alt.fandom.cons, where I was part of the epic,
multi-year MOC flame war.
I've been threatened, and nothing has ever come for it.
Nothing came of this either. But I have no intention of posting my
name and address here.
Not necessary.
You won't see it either.
Not that I'd want to know; you're scary enough, here, as it is.
I am glad I don't know you too.
On one
memoriable occasion, some said that they'd come kill me if they ever
learned where I lived. I posted my complete address along with a link
to a Mapquest page showing exactly how to get to my house from SFO.
I'm still here.
I don't want the bother. There are too many anti-choice fanatics out
there.
You seem to be one of them (when it comes to the poor, anyway).
I have no idea where that came from...
--from your posts.
I have never put any economic factor in any of my comments about the
right of a pregnant woman to decide whether to compete her pregnancy
or terminate it.
.
|
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 11:11:03 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:48:37 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:36:18 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<6djul1ld6h51fn0n8sgo9ukffdlr29ml7e@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:13:37 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:40:24 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<cr2sl194tbvuunvj9rp2kk2os69l2rhl4l@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 04:59:03 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:27:12 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<oa2rl15b601qevj2s95ebjlft16p1ama9b@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:29:05 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:30:57 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<4vkpl1tfh56iqflt84ge311gbuuspe60tc@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:09:43 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
Doesn't everyone here do that? I am not fool enough to use my real
name - I have had at least two 'reverends' offer to help me die.
I've been using my real name and real email address since I first got
on the net in 1993. Never had any problems.
It seems I stepped on some holy toes along the way. These two are nut
cases. Messing around with abortion and religion both can be
dangerous and I simply don't want the personal hassle of an armed
guard.
Huh. I've been on altatheism (off and on) since 1995 or so, and among
the other odd corners of Usenet I've hung out in are places like
alt.conspirracy and alt.fandom.cons, where I was part of the epic,
multi-year MOC flame war.
I've been threatened, and nothing has ever come for it.
Nothing came of this either. But I have no intention of posting my
name and address here.
Not necessary.
You won't see it either.
Not that I'd want to know; you're scary enough, here, as it is.
I am glad I don't know you too.
Being an emotionally bankrupt individual has its perks, I guess.
On one
memoriable occasion, some said that they'd come kill me if they ever
learned where I lived. I posted my complete address along with a link
to a Mapquest page showing exactly how to get to my house from SFO.
I'm still here.
I don't want the bother. There are too many anti-choice fanatics out
there.
You seem to be one of them (when it comes to the poor, anyway).
I have no idea where that came from...
--from your posts.
I have never put any economic factor in any of my comments about the
right of a pregnant woman to decide whether to compete her pregnancy
or terminate it.
--except when she has no other alternative but to use medicaid money
for it.
.
|
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| User: "Attila" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 08:56:35 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 12:11:03 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<kgavl11bb7dabrq2np8gk2ga4uc54q11rd@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:48:37 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:36:18 -0400, Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<6djul1ld6h51fn0n8sgo9ukffdlr29ml7e@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:13:37 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:40:24 -0400, | | | | | | | | | | | | |
