Science > Abortion > Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
20 Oct 2005 11:27:02 PM |
| Object: |
Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
This woman should claim that she was only exercising her "right to choose"
and have the ACLU represent her in court.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12955752.htm
Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay
SAN FRANCISCO - A mentally ill woman seen dropping her three sons into San
Francisco Bay from a downtown pier was charged with three counts of murder
Thursday while anguished relatives kept vigil and rescuers combed the chilly
water for the bodies of two of the victims.
Lashuan T. Harris, 23, of Oakland, was held in a hospital jail ward after
police saw her pushing an empty baby stroller away from the pier where a
witness reported spotting a woman drop the children off the end Wednesday
night.
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| User: "Asmodeus bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 05:57:38 PM |
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Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
news:0o3ol1hmrjel31vkrgvcn65dancf0b7j14@4ax.com:
That depends where you are in the country. 37 out of 38 Death
penalty states use lethal injection.
Too bad. It's too expensive. We should go back to the gallows.
You can re-use rope.
--
/"\ ||
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Oderint Dum Metuant
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || VRWC Proud Life Member
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rightwingnation.com
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 07:25:12 PM |
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Asmodeus <bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> wrote in
news:Xns96F8C0E28C528bondcrightwingnation@216.196.97.142:
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
news:0o3ol1hmrjel31vkrgvcn65dancf0b7j14@4ax.com:
That depends where you are in the country. 37 out of 38 Death
penalty states use lethal injection.
Too bad. It's too expensive. We should go back to the gallows.
You can re-use rope.
and think how many neocons would have orgasms watching.
--
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| User: "Asmodeus bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 01:15:23 PM |
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"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in
news:Xns96F8CFB9B1DDkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4:
and think how many neocons would have orgasms watching
Get your hand out of your lap, Keegan.
--
/"\ ||
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Oderint Dum Metuant
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || VRWC Proud Life Member
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rightwingnation.com
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 05:40:14 PM |
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Asmodeus <bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> wrote in
news:Xns96F991085A9E8bondcrightwingnation@216.196.97.142:
"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in
news:Xns96F8CFB9B1DDkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4:
and think how many neocons would have orgasms watching
Get your hand out of your lap, Keegan.
still fantasizing about me, eh, clay?
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| User: "Asmodeus bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
28 Oct 2005 09:41:08 AM |
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"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in
news:Xns96FCBDEC836FFkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4:
still fantasizing about me, eh, clay?
You really need to take those meds, keegan. Your delusions are
getting worse.
--
/"\ ||
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Oderint Dum Metuant
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || VRWC Proud Life Member
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rightwingnation.com
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
28 Oct 2005 09:05:12 PM |
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Asmodeus <bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> wrote in
news:Xns96FD6CB4490Ebondcrightwingnation@216.196.97.142:
"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in
news:Xns96FCBDEC836FFkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4:
still fantasizing about me, eh, clay?
You really need to take those meds, keegan. Your delusions are
getting worse.
hey, i'll bet you really fooled a lot of people with that one.
*smirk*
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| User: "Asmodeus bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
29 Oct 2005 09:00:48 AM |
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"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in
news:Xns96FDE0AD77983keegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4:
hey, i'll bet you really fooled a lot of people with that one
Take your meds, keegan, before they call the guys in the white coats.
--
/"\ ||
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Oderint Dum Metuant
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || VRWC Proud Life Member
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rightwingnation.com
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
29 Oct 2005 09:06:11 AM |
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Asmodeus <bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> wrote in
news:Xns96FE65DDF3D7Ebondcrightwingnation@216.196.97.142:
"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in
news:Xns96FDE0AD77983keegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4:
hey, i'll bet you really fooled a lot of people with that one
Take your meds, keegan, before they call the guys in the white coats.
at least you had the courtesy to delete your first effort at fooling
readers before you posted the next. my guess is that this one will be as
"successful" as your earlier efforts.
*smirk*
--
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| User: "Pauline Barclay" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 03:44:15 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:57:38 -0500, Asmodeus
<bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> wrote:
Pauline Barclay <pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> wrote in
news:0o3ol1hmrjel31vkrgvcn65dancf0b7j14@4ax.com:
That depends where you are in the country. 37 out of 38 Death
penalty states use lethal injection.
Too bad. It's too expensive. We should go back to the gallows.
You can re-use rope.
Have experience?
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
23 Oct 2005 03:41:28 PM |
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What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:43:40 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:52:19 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<3n8nl1ht7jlhsce7lefdeqnuut96dhlmr5@4ax.com> wrote:
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
True. He should have gotten more.
Or nothing.
Why nothing? He was wrongly convicted! An innocent man, kept in
prison for nine years!
He deserves more.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
Only in your world. Where I live killing a wrongly-convicted man is
murder.
Not where I live.
Oddly, having actually killed people, I take it more seriously than
you.
Except you need more than that. You need several rifles, pay the
executioners,
One pistol at the back of the head from about four inches.
Which leads to severe mental problems among the executioners. That's
why you have several rifles.. one guy gets a blank.
Have you ever actually shot someone? It is not easy, even in combat.
pay the doctor who confirms the death,
I am sure there is already a prison doctor on duty.
Who has other duties.
and of course the
right of appeal, which unless you chuck the Constitution, will result
in numerous court hearings over decades before you get to the point of
actually killing him.
Reduce this period drastically. This is already being done.
And when we make a mistake, what? Say "oops, sorry we killed your
completely innocent son, Mrs. Jones, but think of all the money we
saved!"
Stuff them in a supermax and forget about them. Much cheaper, and if
they are later proven to have been convicted in error, you can make
amends.
How can it be cheaper when all expense stops with execution?
I'm just stating the facts.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 05:16:15 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:41:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n5tnl11vpvc4hkj8vbcnfqcp9cu453svq8@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:43:40 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:52:19 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<3n8nl1ht7jlhsce7lefdeqnuut96dhlmr5@4ax.com> wrote:
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
True. He should have gotten more.
Or nothing.
Why nothing? He was wrongly convicted! An innocent man, kept in
prison for nine years!
He deserves more.
Then let him sue someone.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
Only in your world. Where I live killing a wrongly-convicted man is
murder.
Not where I live.
Oddly, having actually killed people, I take it more seriously than
you.
That does not give you any special insight. How do you know I was not
a military sniper, now retired?
Except you need more than that. You need several rifles, pay the
executioners,
One pistol at the back of the head from about four inches.
Which leads to severe mental problems among the executioners.
Not if there is a volunteer.
That's
why you have several rifles.. one guy gets a blank.
That is to give an out for troops that are assigned execution squad
duty.
Have you ever actually shot someone? It is not easy, even in combat.
You implied I have not earlier in this post. Which is it? I have not
or are you asking? Plus there is the possibility I could not legally
answer that question.
pay the doctor who confirms the death,
I am sure there is already a prison doctor on duty.
Who has other duties.
It doesn't take long to confirm a death. And executions do not occur
ever 15 or 20 minutes throughout a work shift.
and of course the
right of appeal, which unless you chuck the Constitution, will result
in numerous court hearings over decades before you get to the point of
actually killing him.
Reduce this period drastically. This is already being done.
And when we make a mistake, what? Say "oops, sorry we killed your
completely innocent son, Mrs. Jones, but think of all the money we
saved!"
No system is perfect.
Stuff them in a supermax and forget about them. Much cheaper, and if
they are later proven to have been convicted in error, you can make
amends.
How can it be cheaper when all expense stops with execution?
I'm just stating the facts.
But no answer.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 07:40:17 AM |
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:16:15 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<mncpl1tqk5kjum81q1m27korfqj48qm706@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:41:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n5tnl11vpvc4hkj8vbcnfqcp9cu453svq8@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:43:40 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:52:19 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<3n8nl1ht7jlhsce7lefdeqnuut96dhlmr5@4ax.com> wrote:
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
True. He should have gotten more.
Or nothing.
Why nothing? He was wrongly convicted! An innocent man, kept in
prison for nine years!
He deserves more.
Then let him sue someone.
The government. It's cheaper for them to give a standard settlement than
to be sued.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
Only in your world. Where I live killing a wrongly-convicted man is
murder.
Not where I live.
Oddly, having actually killed people, I take it more seriously than
you.
That does not give you any special insight. How do you know I was not
a military sniper, now retired?
....
Reduce this period drastically. This is already being done.
And when we make a mistake, what? Say "oops, sorry we killed your
completely innocent son, Mrs. Jones, but think of all the money we
saved!"
No system is perfect.
But civilized people make an attempt to improve a system that is known
to be wrong. They don't throw up their hands in indifference.
....
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 04:08:53 PM |
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:40:17 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<kelpl1ld63rvdbc3u9j02lvh59rgt3c9af@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:16:15 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<mncpl1tqk5kjum81q1m27korfqj48qm706@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:41:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n5tnl11vpvc4hkj8vbcnfqcp9cu453svq8@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:43:40 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:52:19 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<3n8nl1ht7jlhsce7lefdeqnuut96dhlmr5@4ax.com> wrote:
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
True. He should have gotten more.
Or nothing.
Why nothing? He was wrongly convicted! An innocent man, kept in
prison for nine years!
He deserves more.
Then let him sue someone.
The government. It's cheaper for them to give a standard settlement than
to be sued.
Not if it sets a precedent.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
Only in your world. Where I live killing a wrongly-convicted man is
murder.
Not where I live.
Oddly, having actually killed people, I take it more seriously than
you.
That does not give you any special insight. How do you know I was not
a military sniper, now retired?
...
Reduce this period drastically. This is already being done.
And when we make a mistake, what? Say "oops, sorry we killed your
completely innocent son, Mrs. Jones, but think of all the money we
saved!"
No system is perfect.
But civilized people make an attempt to improve a system that is known
to be wrong. They don't throw up their hands in indifference.
There is nothing wrong with having improvement a continuous process
for everything. In fact, that is good.
However, that does not mean the death penalty should be eliminated.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
24 Oct 2005 04:41:46 PM |
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:40:17 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<kelpl1ld63rvdbc3u9j02lvh59rgt3c9af@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:16:15 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<mncpl1tqk5kjum81q1m27korfqj48qm706@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:41:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n5tnl11vpvc4hkj8vbcnfqcp9cu453svq8@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:43:40 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:52:19 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<3n8nl1ht7jlhsce7lefdeqnuut96dhlmr5@4ax.com> wrote:
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
True. He should have gotten more.
Or nothing.
Why nothing? He was wrongly convicted! An innocent man, kept in
prison for nine years!
He deserves more.
Then let him sue someone.
The government. It's cheaper for them to give a standard settlement than
to be sued.
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
Only in your world. Where I live killing a wrongly-convicted man is
murder.
Not where I live.
Oddly, having actually killed people, I take it more seriously than
you.
That does not give you any special insight. How do you know I was not
a military sniper, now retired?
...
Reduce this period drastically. This is already being done.
And when we make a mistake, what? Say "oops, sorry we killed your
completely innocent son, Mrs. Jones, but think of all the money we
saved!"
No system is perfect.
But civilized people make an attempt to improve a system that is known
to be wrong. They don't throw up their hands in indifference.
There is nothing wrong with having improvement a continuous process
for everything. In fact, that is good.
However, that does not mean the death penalty should be eliminated.
Your commitment to the death penalty is not supported by facts.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
25 Oct 2005 04:07:04 AM |
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:41:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l6lql1db9i0esrkalv7uou9ppf7d190bhv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:40:17 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<kelpl1ld63rvdbc3u9j02lvh59rgt3c9af@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:16:15 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<mncpl1tqk5kjum81q1m27korfqj48qm706@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:41:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n5tnl11vpvc4hkj8vbcnfqcp9cu453svq8@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:43:40 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:52:19 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<3n8nl1ht7jlhsce7lefdeqnuut96dhlmr5@4ax.com> wrote:
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
True. He should have gotten more.
Or nothing.
Why nothing? He was wrongly convicted! An innocent man, kept in
prison for nine years!
He deserves more.
Then let him sue someone.
The government. It's cheaper for them to give a standard settlement than
to be sued.
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
I am addressing only those who are legally guilty.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
Only in your world. Where I live killing a wrongly-convicted man is
murder.
Not where I live.
Oddly, having actually killed people, I take it more seriously than
you.
That does not give you any special insight. How do you know I was not
a military sniper, now retired?
...
Reduce this period drastically. This is already being done.
And when we make a mistake, what? Say "oops, sorry we killed your
completely innocent son, Mrs. Jones, but think of all the money we
saved!"
No system is perfect.
But civilized people make an attempt to improve a system that is known
to be wrong. They don't throw up their hands in indifference.
There is nothing wrong with having improvement a continuous process
for everything. In fact, that is good.
However, that does not mean the death penalty should be eliminated.
Your commitment to the death penalty is not supported by facts.
It is as far as I am concerned.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
25 Oct 2005 07:28:52 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:07:04 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1ctrl19uq4e8uh4mo6ce18ga13bfi2698v@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:41:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l6lql1db9i0esrkalv7uou9ppf7d190bhv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:40:17 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<kelpl1ld63rvdbc3u9j02lvh59rgt3c9af@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:16:15 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<mncpl1tqk5kjum81q1m27korfqj48qm706@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:41:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n5tnl11vpvc4hkj8vbcnfqcp9cu453svq8@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:43:40 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:52:19 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<3n8nl1ht7jlhsce7lefdeqnuut96dhlmr5@4ax.com> wrote:
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
True. He should have gotten more.
Or nothing.
Why nothing? He was wrongly convicted! An innocent man, kept in
prison for nine years!
He deserves more.
Then let him sue someone.
The government. It's cheaper for them to give a standard settlement than
to be sued.
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
I am addressing only those who are legally guilty.
The legal system includes the appellate system. Deal with it.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
Only in your world. Where I live killing a wrongly-convicted man is
murder.
Not where I live.
Oddly, having actually killed people, I take it more seriously than
you.
That does not give you any special insight. How do you know I was not
a military sniper, now retired?
...
Reduce this period drastically. This is already being done.
And when we make a mistake, what? Say "oops, sorry we killed your
completely innocent son, Mrs. Jones, but think of all the money we
saved!"
No system is perfect.
But civilized people make an attempt to improve a system that is known
to be wrong. They don't throw up their hands in indifference.
There is nothing wrong with having improvement a continuous process
for everything. In fact, that is good.
However, that does not mean the death penalty should be eliminated.
Your commitment to the death penalty is not supported by facts.
It is as far as I am concerned.
Your unthinking black and white view of the world is noted.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Attila" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 04:22:51 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:28:52 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<m69sl1tmvvbq24cpnec1m8de4v04gmetfa@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:07:04 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1ctrl19uq4e8uh4mo6ce18ga13bfi2698v@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:41:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l6lql1db9i0esrkalv7uou9ppf7d190bhv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:40:17 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<kelpl1ld63rvdbc3u9j02lvh59rgt3c9af@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:16:15 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<mncpl1tqk5kjum81q1m27korfqj48qm706@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:41:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<n5tnl11vpvc4hkj8vbcnfqcp9cu453svq8@4ax.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and Attila <prochoice@here.now>
posting the following on Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:43:40 -0400 iin
alt.atheism?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:52:19 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<3n8nl1ht7jlhsce7lefdeqnuut96dhlmr5@4ax.com> wrote:
We just had a case like that here in SF. A man convicted of raping a
13 year old girl was freed after DNA testing proved he couldn't have
been the attacker. For his nine years in prison, the state is
coughing up $350,000.
Which is silly.
True. He should have gotten more.
Or nothing.
Why nothing? He was wrongly convicted! An innocent man, kept in
prison for nine years!
He deserves more.
Then let him sue someone.
The government. It's cheaper for them to give a standard settlement than
to be sued.
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
I am addressing only those who are legally guilty.
The legal system includes the appellate system. Deal with it.
Where did I say or imply it does not? That has nothing to do with
those who have been convicted. My only comment about the appellate
system has been that it is too slow.
I could go into details like using some change in the prisoner that
supposedly occurred after conviction being used as the basis for an
appeal. Some religious connotation is frequently used here, and one
prisoner who (insanely) won a Nobel Peace Prize.
Nothing that occurred after arrest and especially conviction should be
considered in an appeal. Legally it should not exist and must not
influence the court in any way.
Wrong. Murder requires an illegal act. Execution of a convicted
criminal cannot be murder. Whether the person is eventually shown to
be innocent is irrelevant.
Only in your world. Where I live killing a wrongly-convicted man is
murder.
Not where I live.
Oddly, having actually killed people, I take it more seriously than
you.
That does not give you any special insight. How do you know I was not
a military sniper, now retired?
...
Reduce this period drastically. This is already being done.
And when we make a mistake, what? Say "oops, sorry we killed your
completely innocent son, Mrs. Jones, but think of all the money we
saved!"
No system is perfect.
But civilized people make an attempt to improve a system that is known
to be wrong. They don't throw up their hands in indifference.
There is nothing wrong with having improvement a continuous process
for everything. In fact, that is good.
However, that does not mean the death penalty should be eliminated.
Your commitment to the death penalty is not supported by facts.
It is as far as I am concerned.
Your unthinking black and white view of the world is noted.
As is your's.
.
|
|
|
| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 07:57:14 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:22:51 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ddiul1h48g9jmcrfg8u32g55gq5gdbpfcr@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:28:52 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<m69sl1tmvvbq24cpnec1m8de4v04gmetfa@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:07:04 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1ctrl19uq4e8uh4mo6ce18ga13bfi2698v@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:41:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l6lql1db9i0esrkalv7uou9ppf7d190bhv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
....
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
I am addressing only those who are legally guilty.
The legal system includes the appellate system. Deal with it.
Where did I say or imply it does not? That has nothing to do with
those who have been convicted. My only comment about the appellate
system has been that it is too slow.
Thank the politicians who refuse to fund legal aid and indigent appeals
properly.
I could go into details like using some change in the prisoner that
supposedly occurred after conviction being used as the basis for an
appeal. Some religious connotation is frequently used here, and one
prisoner who (insanely) won a Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm not following that.
Nothing that occurred after arrest and especially conviction should be
considered in an appeal. Legally it should not exist and must not
influence the court in any way.
Sorry, but the Bill of Rights and the common law tell you that you are
wrong in your view of the legal system.
....
But civilized people make an attempt to improve a system that is known
to be wrong. They don't throw up their hands in indifference.
There is nothing wrong with having improvement a continuous process
for everything. In fact, that is good.
However, that does not mean the death penalty should be eliminated.
Your commitment to the death penalty is not supported by facts.
It is as far as I am concerned.
Your unthinking black and white view of the world is noted.
As is your's.
The closest I've come to being black and white is in supporting civil
liberties.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Attila" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 09:03:23 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:57:14 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<43vul1dmrmgmek83nc7gdmr1ha3efpniq2@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:22:51 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ddiul1h48g9jmcrfg8u32g55gq5gdbpfcr@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:28:52 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<m69sl1tmvvbq24cpnec1m8de4v04gmetfa@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:07:04 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1ctrl19uq4e8uh4mo6ce18ga13bfi2698v@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:41:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l6lql1db9i0esrkalv7uou9ppf7d190bhv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
...
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
I am addressing only those who are legally guilty.
The legal system includes the appellate system. Deal with it.
Where did I say or imply it does not? That has nothing to do with
those who have been convicted. My only comment about the appellate
system has been that it is too slow.
Thank the politicians who refuse to fund legal aid and indigent appeals
properly.
I do not see the government as responsible for the funding of
everything.
I could go into details like using some change in the prisoner that
supposedly occurred after conviction being used as the basis for an
appeal. Some religious connotation is frequently used here, and one
prisoner who (insanely) won a Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm not following that.
Some jerk who helped found the Crips in LA has been on death row for
21 years after being convicted for four murders. He was awarded the
Nobel Peace Prize for something or other (probably as a poster boy of
the elimination of the death penalty) and has done something or other
that has some people saying he is a 'changed man' and should not be
executed because of this. As far as I am concerned he can change into
a frog - he still should be executed.
Nothing that occurred after arrest and especially conviction should be
considered in an appeal. Legally it should not exist and must not
influence the court in any way.
Sorry, but the Bill of Rights and the common law tell you that you are
wrong in your view of the legal system.
Nonsense. What in the Bill of Rights says that.
...
But civilized people make an attempt to improve a system that is known
to be wrong. They don't throw up their hands in indifference.
There is nothing wrong with having improvement a continuous process
for everything. In fact, that is good.
However, that does not mean the death penalty should be eliminated.
Your commitment to the death penalty is not supported by facts.
It is as far as I am concerned.
Your unthinking black and white view of the world is noted.
As is your's.
The closest I've come to being black and white is in supporting civil
liberties.
I disagree with a lot of what is called 'civil liberties'.
.
|
|
|
| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 11:10:01 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:03:23 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<45n1m15j190b53cqbsq2dd48t60b5pnuiv@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:57:14 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<43vul1dmrmgmek83nc7gdmr1ha3efpniq2@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:22:51 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ddiul1h48g9jmcrfg8u32g55gq5gdbpfcr@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:28:52 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<m69sl1tmvvbq24cpnec1m8de4v04gmetfa@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:07:04 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1ctrl19uq4e8uh4mo6ce18ga13bfi2698v@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:41:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l6lql1db9i0esrkalv7uou9ppf7d190bhv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
...
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
I am addressing only those who are legally guilty.
The legal system includes the appellate system. Deal with it.
Where did I say or imply it does not? That has nothing to do with
those who have been convicted. My only comment about the appellate
system has been that it is too slow.
Thank the politicians who refuse to fund legal aid and indigent appeals
properly.
I do not see the government as responsible for the funding of
everything.
But the constitution requires it.
I could go into details like using some change in the prisoner that
supposedly occurred after conviction being used as the basis for an
appeal. Some religious connotation is frequently used here, and one
prisoner who (insanely) won a Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm not following that.
Some jerk who helped found the Crips in LA has been on death row for
21 years after being convicted for four murders. He was awarded the
Nobel Peace Prize for something or other (probably as a poster boy of
the elimination of the death penalty) and has done something or other
that has some people saying he is a 'changed man' and should not be
executed because of this. As far as I am concerned he can change into
a frog - he still should be executed.
Very simply, you are mistaken
<http://nobelprize.org/peace/laureates/index.html>. Whoever told you
that passed a lie onto you. These are the winners for the past 27 years.
As you can see, none are on death row in the United States:
2005 International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei
2004 Wangari Maathai
2003 Shirin Ebadi
2002 Jimmy Carter
2001 United Nations, Kofi Annan
2000 Kim Dae-jung
1999 Médecins Sans Frontières
1998 John Hume, David Trimble
1997 International Campaign to Ban Landmines, Jody Williams
1996 Carlos Filipe Ximenes Belo, José Ramos-Horta
1995 Joseph Rotblat, Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs
1994 Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres, Yitzhak Rabin
1993 Nelson Mandela, F.W. de Klerk
1992 Rigoberta Menchú Tum
1991 Aung San Suu Kyi
1990 Mikhail Gorbachev
1989 The 14th Dalai Lama
1988 United Nations Peacekeeping Forces
1987 Oscar Arias Sánchez
1986 Elie Wiesel
1985 International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War
1984 Desmond Tutu
1983 Lech Walesa
1982 Alva Myrdal, Alfonso García Robles
1981 Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
1980 Adolfo Pérez Esquivel
1979 Mother Teresa
Nothing that occurred after arrest and especially conviction should be
considered in an appeal. Legally it should not exist and must not
influence the court in any way.
Sorry, but the Bill of Rights and the common law tell you that you are
wrong in your view of the legal system.
Nonsense. What in the Bill of Rights says that.
...
But civilized people make an attempt to improve a system that is known
to be wrong. They don't throw up their hands in indifference.
There is nothing wrong with having improvement a continuous process
for everything. In fact, that is good.
However, that does not mean the death penalty should be eliminated.
Your commitment to the death penalty is not supported by facts.
It is as far as I am concerned.
Your unthinking black and white view of the world is noted.
As is your's.
The closest I've come to being black and white is in supporting civil
liberties.
I disagree with a lot of what is called 'civil liberties'.
Luckily you don't run the country with your totalitarian ideas.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Attila" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 03:38:21 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:10:01 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<khu1m1t70vuv03p24c6t96n71ibeulvhan@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:03:23 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<45n1m15j190b53cqbsq2dd48t60b5pnuiv@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:57:14 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<43vul1dmrmgmek83nc7gdmr1ha3efpniq2@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:22:51 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ddiul1h48g9jmcrfg8u32g55gq5gdbpfcr@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:28:52 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<m69sl1tmvvbq24cpnec1m8de4v04gmetfa@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:07:04 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1ctrl19uq4e8uh4mo6ce18ga13bfi2698v@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:41:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l6lql1db9i0esrkalv7uou9ppf7d190bhv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
...
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
I am addressing only those who are legally guilty.
The legal system includes the appellate system. Deal with it.
Where did I say or imply it does not? That has nothing to do with
those who have been convicted. My only comment about the appellate
system has been that it is too slow.
Thank the politicians who refuse to fund legal aid and indigent appeals
properly.
I do not see the government as responsible for the funding of
everything.
But the constitution requires it.
Time for an Amendment.
I could go into details like using some change in the prisoner that
supposedly occurred after conviction being used as the basis for an
appeal. Some religious connotation is frequently used here, and one
prisoner who (insanely) won a Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm not following that.
Some jerk who helped found the Crips in LA has been on death row for
21 years after being convicted for four murders. He was awarded the
Nobel Peace Prize for something or other (probably as a poster boy of
the elimination of the death penalty) and has done something or other
that has some people saying he is a 'changed man' and should not be
executed because of this. As far as I am concerned he can change into
a frog - he still should be executed.
Very simply, you are mistaken
<http://nobelprize.org/peace/laureates/index.html>. Whoever told you
that passed a lie onto you. These are the winners for the past 27 years.
As you can see, none are on death row in the United States:
2005 International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei
2004 Wangari Maathai
2003 Shirin Ebadi
2002 Jimmy Carter
2001 United Nations, Kofi Annan
2000 Kim Dae-jung
1999 Médecins Sans Frontières
1998 John Hume, David Trimble
1997 International Campaign to Ban Landmines, Jody Williams
1996 Carlos Filipe Ximenes Belo, José Ramos-Horta
1995 Joseph Rotblat, Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs
1994 Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres, Yitzhak Rabin
1993 Nelson Mandela, F.W. de Klerk
1992 Rigoberta Menchú Tum
1991 Aung San Suu Kyi
1990 Mikhail Gorbachev
1989 The 14th Dalai Lama
1988 United Nations Peacekeeping Forces
1987 Oscar Arias Sánchez
1986 Elie Wiesel
1985 International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War
1984 Desmond Tutu
1983 Lech Walesa
1982 Alva Myrdal, Alfonso García Robles
1981 Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
1980 Adolfo Pérez Esquivel
1979 Mother Teresa
My error. Nominated but not awarded.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/10/25/BAGO9FDDFE1.DTL
and 24 years, not 21.
Nothing that occurred after arrest and especially conviction should be
considered in an appeal. Legally it should not exist and must not
influence the court in any way.
Sorry, but the Bill of Rights and the common law tell you that you are
wrong in your view of the legal system.
Nonsense. What in the Bill of Rights says that.
...
But civilized people make an attempt to improve a system that is known
to be wrong. They don't throw up their hands in indifference.
There is nothing wrong with having improvement a continuous process
for everything. In fact, that is good.
However, that does not mean the death penalty should be eliminated.
Your commitment to the death penalty is not supported by facts.
It is as far as I am concerned.
Your unthinking black and white view of the world is noted.
As is your's.
The closest I've come to being black and white is in supporting civil
liberties.
I disagree with a lot of what is called 'civil liberties'.
Luckily you don't run the country with your totalitarian ideas.
Not in my opinion, but basically I am glad no one person can run the
country.
.
|
|
|
| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 03:59:33 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:38:21 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<s8e2m1pubifo0858n6f90dnc7u1lcrg9q8@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:10:01 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<khu1m1t70vuv03p24c6t96n71ibeulvhan@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:03:23 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<45n1m15j190b53cqbsq2dd48t60b5pnuiv@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:57:14 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<43vul1dmrmgmek83nc7gdmr1ha3efpniq2@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:22:51 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ddiul1h48g9jmcrfg8u32g55gq5gdbpfcr@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:28:52 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<m69sl1tmvvbq24cpnec1m8de4v04gmetfa@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:07:04 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1ctrl19uq4e8uh4mo6ce18ga13bfi2698v@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:41:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l6lql1db9i0esrkalv7uou9ppf7d190bhv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
...
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
I am addressing only those who are legally guilty.
The legal system includes the appellate system. Deal with it.
Where did I say or imply it does not? That has nothing to do with
those who have been convicted. My only comment about the appellate
system has been that it is too slow.
Thank the politicians who refuse to fund legal aid and indigent appeals
properly.
I do not see the government as responsible for the funding of
everything.
But the constitution requires it.
Time for an Amendment.
Taking away our rights. No thanks.
I could go into details like using some change in the prisoner that
supposedly occurred after conviction being used as the basis for an
appeal. Some religious connotation is frequently used here, and one
prisoner who (insanely) won a Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm not following that.
Some jerk who helped found the Crips in LA has been on death row for
21 years after being convicted for four murders. He was awarded the
Nobel Peace Prize for something or other (probably as a poster boy of
the elimination of the death penalty) and has done something or other
that has some people saying he is a 'changed man' and should not be
executed because of this. As far as I am concerned he can change into
a frog - he still should be executed.
Very simply, you are mistaken
<http://nobelprize.org/peace/laureates/index.html>. Whoever told you
that passed a lie onto you. These are the winners for the past 27 years.
As you can see, none are on death row in the United States:
2005 International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei
2004 Wangari Maathai
2003 Shirin Ebadi
2002 Jimmy Carter
2001 United Nations, Kofi Annan
2000 Kim Dae-jung
1999 Médecins Sans Frontières
1998 John Hume, David Trimble
1997 International Campaign to Ban Landmines, Jody Williams
1996 Carlos Filipe Ximenes Belo, José Ramos-Horta
1995 Joseph Rotblat, Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs
1994 Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres, Yitzhak Rabin
1993 Nelson Mandela, F.W. de Klerk
1992 Rigoberta Menchú Tum
1991 Aung San Suu Kyi
1990 Mikhail Gorbachev
1989 The 14th Dalai Lama
1988 United Nations Peacekeeping Forces
1987 Oscar Arias Sánchez
1986 Elie Wiesel
1985 International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War
1984 Desmond Tutu
1983 Lech Walesa
1982 Alva Myrdal, Alfonso García Robles
1981 Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
1980 Adolfo Pérez Esquivel
1979 Mother Teresa
My error. Nominated but not awarded.
Nominations are meaningless.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/10/25/BAGO9FDDFE1.DTL
and 24 years, not 21.
That is slow. I don't know how well the original case was tried, though,
it appears that he still maintains his innocence. Maybe he is.
....
The closest I've come to being black and white is in supporting civil
liberties.
I disagree with a lot of what is called 'civil liberties'.
Luckily you don't run the country with your totalitarian ideas.
Not in my opinion, but basically I am glad no one person can run the
country.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 05:46:57 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:59:33 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<0nf2m1pv58ip2vbuq28sm4vlhmai4m1cjm@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:38:21 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<s8e2m1pubifo0858n6f90dnc7u1lcrg9q8@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:10:01 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<khu1m1t70vuv03p24c6t96n71ibeulvhan@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:03:23 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<45n1m15j190b53cqbsq2dd48t60b5pnuiv@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:57:14 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<43vul1dmrmgmek83nc7gdmr1ha3efpniq2@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:22:51 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ddiul1h48g9jmcrfg8u32g55gq5gdbpfcr@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:28:52 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<m69sl1tmvvbq24cpnec1m8de4v04gmetfa@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:07:04 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1ctrl19uq4e8uh4mo6ce18ga13bfi2698v@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:41:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l6lql1db9i0esrkalv7uou9ppf7d190bhv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
...
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
I am addressing only those who are legally guilty.
The legal system includes the appellate system. Deal with it.
Where did I say or imply it does not? That has nothing to do with
those who have been convicted. My only comment about the appellate
system has been that it is too slow.
Thank the politicians who refuse to fund legal aid and indigent appeals
properly.
I do not see the government as responsible for the funding of
everything.
But the constitution requires it.
Time for an Amendment.
Taking away our rights. No thanks.
If the majority agrees, too bad.
I could go into details like using some change in the prisoner that
supposedly occurred after conviction being used as the basis for an
appeal. Some religious connotation is frequently used here, and one
prisoner who (insanely) won a Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm not following that.
Some jerk who helped found the Crips in LA has been on death row for
21 years after being convicted for four murders. He was awarded the
Nobel Peace Prize for something or other (probably as a poster boy of
the elimination of the death penalty) and has done something or other
that has some people saying he is a 'changed man' and should not be
executed because of this. As far as I am concerned he can change into
a frog - he still should be executed.
Very simply, you are mistaken
<http://nobelprize.org/peace/laureates/index.html>. Whoever told you
that passed a lie onto you. These are the winners for the past 27 years.
As you can see, none are on death row in the United States:
2005 International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei
2004 Wangari Maathai
2003 Shirin Ebadi
2002 Jimmy Carter
2001 United Nations, Kofi Annan
2000 Kim Dae-jung
1999 Médecins Sans Frontières
1998 John Hume, David Trimble
1997 International Campaign to Ban Landmines, Jody Williams
1996 Carlos Filipe Ximenes Belo, José Ramos-Horta
1995 Joseph Rotblat, Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs
1994 Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres, Yitzhak Rabin
1993 Nelson Mandela, F.W. de Klerk
1992 Rigoberta Menchú Tum
1991 Aung San Suu Kyi
1990 Mikhail Gorbachev
1989 The 14th Dalai Lama
1988 United Nations Peacekeeping Forces
1987 Oscar Arias Sánchez
1986 Elie Wiesel
1985 International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War
1984 Desmond Tutu
1983 Lech Walesa
1982 Alva Myrdal, Alfonso García Robles
1981 Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
1980 Adolfo Pérez Esquivel
1979 Mother Teresa
My error. Nominated but not awarded.
Nominations are meaningless.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/10/25/BAGO9FDDFE1.DTL
and 24 years, not 21.
That is slow. I don't know how well the original case was tried, though,
it appears that he still maintains his innocence. Maybe he is.
Of course he maintains it. He thinks he has a shot at surviving.
I was wrong in my earlier comment about him confessing. It appears he
has not done so.
...
The closest I've come to being black and white is in supporting civil
liberties.
I disagree with a lot of what is called 'civil liberties'.
Luckily you don't run the country with your totalitarian ideas.
Not in my opinion, but basically I am glad no one person can run the
country.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 07:34:39 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:46:57 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<h3m2m1pqr7m2a4mnrflijglvkpb5d51acg@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:59:33 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<0nf2m1pv58ip2vbuq28sm4vlhmai4m1cjm@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:38:21 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<s8e2m1pubifo0858n6f90dnc7u1lcrg9q8@4ax.com>:
....
and 24 years, not 21.
That is slow. I don't know how well the original case was tried, though,
it appears that he still maintains his innocence. Maybe he is.
Of course he maintains it. He thinks he has a shot at surviving.
I was wrong in my earlier comment about him confessing. It appears he
has not done so.
I'm glad you can recognize your mistakes in statements of facts. It
would be nice if you would start to think about capital punishment
rather than just repeat your support for it.
....
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
27 Oct 2005 10:01:44 PM |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:34:39 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<ges2m11noc9rbaf26f5544rb4jto60on6q@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:46:57 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<h3m2m1pqr7m2a4mnrflijglvkpb5d51acg@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:59:33 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<0nf2m1pv58ip2vbuq28sm4vlhmai4m1cjm@4ax.com> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:38:21 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<s8e2m1pubifo0858n6f90dnc7u1lcrg9q8@4ax.com>:
...
and 24 years, not 21.
That is slow. I don't know how well the original case was tried, though,
it appears that he still maintains his innocence. Maybe he is.
Of course he maintains it. He thinks he has a shot at surviving.
I was wrong in my earlier comment about him confessing. It appears he
has not done so.
I'm glad you can recognize your mistakes in statements of facts. It
would be nice if you would start to think about capital punishment
rather than just repeat your support for it.
...
I am frequently wrong, but not about this. I have consistently
supported the death penalty for over 50 years. And disliked the
amount of time involved.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 10:57:58 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:57:14 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<43vul1dmrmgmek83nc7gdmr1ha3efpniq2@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:22:51 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ddiul1h48g9jmcrfg8u32g55gq5gdbpfcr@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:28:52 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<m69sl1tmvvbq24cpnec1m8de4v04gmetfa@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:07:04 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1ctrl19uq4e8uh4mo6ce18ga13bfi2698v@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:41:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l6lql1db9i0esrkalv7uou9ppf7d190bhv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
...
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
I am addressing only those who are legally guilty.
The legal system includes the appellate system. Deal with it.
Where did I say or imply it does not? That has nothing to do with
those who have been convicted. My only comment about the appellate
system has been that it is too slow.
Thank the politicians who refuse to fund legal aid and indigent appeals
properly.
It is funded. I doubt we would ever agree on the definition of
'properly.
I could go into details like using some change in the prisoner that
supposedly occurred after conviction being used as the basis for an
appeal. Some religious connotation is frequently used here, and one
prisoner who (insanely) won a Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm not following that.
Sometimes it is argued that the prisoner has found some god and is no
longer the same person and thus should not be executed. Or he has
shown some remorse. Or even one who has written children's books and
received the Nobel Peace Prize. None of this matters, should be taken
into account, or even allowed in an appeal.
That of course shows what the Nobel Peace Prize is worth.
Nothing that occurred after arrest and especially conviction should be
considered in an appeal. Legally it should not exist and must not
influence the court in any way.
Sorry, but the Bill of Rights and the common law tell you that you are
wrong in your view of the legal system.
Yet the death penalty has been common throughout history.
...
But civilized people make an attempt to improve a system that is known
to be wrong. They don't throw up their hands in indifference.
There is nothing wrong with having improvement a continuous process
for everything. In fact, that is good.
However, that does not mean the death penalty should be eliminated.
Your commitment to the death penalty is not supported by facts.
It is as far as I am concerned.
Your unthinking black and white view of the world is noted.
As is your's.
The closest I've come to being black and white is in supporting civil
liberties.
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay |
26 Oct 2005 11:51:57 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:57:58 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<li9vl1taqu8smjsqvu7tuhj8eik9pn58qo@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:57:14 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<43vul1dmrmgmek83nc7gdmr1ha3efpniq2@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:22:51 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<ddiul1h48g9jmcrfg8u32g55gq5gdbpfcr@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:28:52 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<m69sl1tmvvbq24cpnec1m8de4v04gmetfa@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 05:07:04 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<1ctrl19uq4e8uh4mo6ce18ga13bfi2698v@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:41:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<l6lql1db9i0esrkalv7uou9ppf7d190bhv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:08:53 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<97jql11h7gdli28ndujn22cqhuuip8inbn@4ax.com>:
...
Not if it sets a precedent.
The precedent is set by statute. The legislature, unlike you, does not
take joy in putting innocent people into jail.
I am addressing only those who are legally guilty.
The legal system includes the appellate system. Deal with it.
Where did I say or imply it does not? That has nothing to do with
those who have been convicted. My only comment about the appellate
system has been that it is too slow.
Thank the politicians who refuse to fund legal aid and indigent appeals
properly.
It is funded. I doubt we would ever agree on the definition of
'properly.
Luckily, you aren't the one who decides what is properly. You seem
perfectly satisfied with a parody of justice before execution occurs.
You seem willing to adopt the Queen's justice system from Alice in
Wonderland.
I could go into details like using some change in the prisoner that
supposedly occurred after conviction being used as the basis for an
appeal. Some religious connotation is frequently used here, and one
prisoner who (insanely) won a Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm not following that.
Sometimes it is argued that the prisoner has found some god and is no
longer the same person and thus should not be executed. Or he has
shown some remorse. Or even one who has written children's books and
received the Nobel Peace Prize. None of this matters, should be taken
into account, or even allowed in an appeal.
That of course shows what | | | | | | | | | | | |
