| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Papa Jack" |
| Date: |
20 Dec 2003 04:27:20 PM |
| Object: |
Moms in Crisis |
On 12/20/2003 the San Antonio Express-News
posted an article by Rebeca Rodriguez titled:
"Allied Women's Center Aids Moms in Crisis."
Go to:
http://news.mysanantonio.com/global-includes/printStory.cfm?xla='saen'&xlb=380&xlc=1101934
___________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"When Ana Contreras walked through the doors of
the Allied Women's Center two years ago, she
was prepared to have an abortion.
"With three young children already at home, another
baby would be too difficult to raise, she thought.
Then she called the center.
"'They gave me baby blankets, baby clothes,
Pampers, whatever I needed," said Contreras, 32.
"That was two years ago, and Contreras and her
husband are thrilled to have kept their child,
a baby boy named Salvador.
"'I don't know what I would have done without
them,' she said of the center.
"For women facing a crisis pregnancy, the Allied
Women's Center of San Antonio is a godsend.
Most of the women who walk through the doors
of the center are economically disadvantaged
single mothers between the ages of 20 and 26
who already have at least one child.
"By providing basic help with things like rent
and diapers, the center's staff helps provide
an alternative to abortion for women who
want to keep their babies.
"'For so many women, abortion is not a choice,
it's the lack of a choice,' said Tere Haring,
the center's executive director. 'It's one
thing to say to these women, 'Don't have an
abortion,' but you have to offer practical
help.'
"The center is one of many area nonprofit groups
the San Antonio Express-News is featuring in its
annual Grace of Giving series, which runs daily
through Christmas.
"At a nondescript second-floor office on North
Main Street, mothers can rummage through cup-
boards for bags of diapers, baby clothes, boo-
ties and larger items like cribs and strollers.
"They also can get free pregnancy testing, money
for rent and utility bills, and anything else they
might need.
[...]
"Often, teenagers walk through the front door,
desperate for direction.
"Owen recalled a pregnant 16-year-old who
came to the center with her 2-year-old and
4-month-old children. She said these girls
often are looking for love, and 'to them,
sex is love.'
"Although the center is an anti-abortion
organization whose members tend to abide
by Christian principles, Haring said they do
not actively evangelize or try to convert.
"'Our purpose is to fill your needs, whatever
your needs are,' Haring said."
[...]
___________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We need many more crisis pregnancy centers like
this and fewer "chop shops."
Happy holidays.
.
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| User: "M is for Malapert" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
21 Dec 2003 04:32:02 PM |
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"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0312201427.4b3ac958@posting.google.com...
"Owen recalled a pregnant 16-year-old who
came to the center with her 2-year-old and
4-month-old children. She said these girls
often are looking for love, and 'to them,
sex is love.'
We need many more crisis pregnancy centers like
this and fewer "chop shops."
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three children is such a good
idea. I listened to a CPC representative on the crazy Christian radio
station a while back, and she was proud of having talked a 12-year-old rape
victim out of having an abortion. That's just sick.
.
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| User: "golddodgearies" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
22 Dec 2003 05:00:24 PM |
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"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message news:<CbpFb.451264$275.1326266@attbi_s53>...
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three children is such a good
idea. I listened to a CPC representative on the crazy Christian radio
station a while back, and she was proud of having talked a 12-year-old rape
victim out of having an abortion. That's just sick.
Doesn't prove it's not murder. The parents are proof that it is, murderer.
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
22 Dec 2003 05:07:06 PM |
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(golddodgearies) wrote in
news:44e87bc2.0312221500.48176ca9@posting.google.com:
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:<CbpFb.451264$275.1326266@attbi_s53>...
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three children is
such a good idea. I listened to a CPC representative on the
crazy Christian radio station a while back, and she was proud
of having talked a 12-year-old rape victim out of having an
abortion. That's just sick.
Doesn't prove it's not murder. The parents are proof that it
is, murderer.
cite the murder conviction or apologize for having
lied yet again.
.
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| User: "golddodgearies" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
23 Dec 2003 08:15:53 PM |
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"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9459B84BC5EBFkeegannycaprrcom@24.24.2.166>...
golddodgearies@yahoo.com (golddodgearies) wrote in
news:44e87bc2.0312221500.48176ca9@posting.google.com:
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:<CbpFb.451264$275.1326266@attbi_s53>...
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three children is
such a good idea. I listened to a CPC representative on the
crazy Christian radio station a while back, and she was proud
of having talked a 12-year-old rape victim out of having an
abortion. That's just sick.
Doesn't prove it's not murder. The parents are proof that it
is, murderer.
cite the murder conviction or apologize for having lied yet again.
Good 'refutation', Bot-Man.
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
23 Dec 2003 08:36:06 PM |
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(golddodgearies) wrote in
news:44e87bc2.0312231815.49d7cbe5@posting.google.com:
"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns9459B84BC5EBFkeegannycaprrcom@24.24.2.166>...
(golddodgearies) wrote in
news:44e87bc2.0312221500.48176ca9@posting.google.com:
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:<CbpFb.451264$275.1326266@attbi_s53>...
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three children
is such a good idea. I listened to a CPC representative
on the crazy Christian radio station a while back, and she
was proud of having talked a 12-year-old rape victim out
of having an abortion. That's just sick.
Doesn't prove it's not murder. The parents are proof that
it is, murderer.
cite the murder conviction or apologize for having lied yet
again.
Good 'refutation', Bot-Man.
it demonstrated conclusively that you lied again and, got caught
again.
yeah, it was the best refutation.
.
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| User: "pr0r3p" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
24 Dec 2003 10:52:33 AM |
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(golddodgearies) wrote in message news:<44e87bc2.0312231815.49d7cbe5@posting.google.com>...
"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9459B84BC5EBFkeegannycaprrcom@24.24.2.166>...
(golddodgearies) wrote in
news:44e87bc2.0312221500.48176ca9@posting.google.com:
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:<CbpFb.451264$275.1326266@attbi_s53>...
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three children is
such a good idea. I listened to a CPC representative on the
crazy Christian radio station a while back, and she was proud
of having talked a 12-year-old rape victim out of having an
abortion. That's just sick.
Doesn't prove it's not murder. The parents are proof that it
is, murderer.
cite the murder conviction or apologize for having lied yet again.
Good 'refutation', Bot-Man.
You have yet to cite evidence to support your claim, therefore, your
claim is *****. Claims that are ***** don't need to be refuted.
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
24 Dec 2003 11:24:43 AM |
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(pr0r3p) wrote in
news:1686c3b8.0312240852.50233178@posting.google.com:
golddodgearies@yahoo.com (golddodgearies) wrote in message
news:<44e87bc2.0312231815.49d7cbe5@posting.google.com>...
"james g. keegan jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns9459B84BC5EBFkeegannycaprrcom@24.24.2.166>...
golddodgearies@yahoo.com (golddodgearies) wrote in
news:44e87bc2.0312221500.48176ca9@posting.google.com:
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:<CbpFb.451264$275.1326266@attbi_s53>...
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three
children is such a good idea. I listened to a CPC
representative on the crazy Christian radio station a
while back, and she was proud of having talked a
12-year-old rape victim out of having an abortion.
That's just sick.
Doesn't prove it's not murder. The parents are proof that
it is, murderer.
cite the murder conviction or apologize for having lied yet
again.
Good 'refutation', Bot-Man.
You have yet to cite evidence to support your claim,
therefore, your claim is *****. Claims that are *****
don't need to be refuted.
particularly, as in goldie's case, claims that are clearly false to
begin with.
.
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| User: "Papa Jack" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
23 Dec 2003 12:53:57 PM |
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"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:<CbpFb.451264$275.1326266@attbi_s53>...
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0312201427.4b3ac958@posting.google.com...
==========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On 12/20/2003 the San Antonio Express-News
posted an article by Rebeca Rodriguez titled:
"Allied Women's Center Aids Moms in Crisis."
Go to:
http://news.mysanantonio.com/global-includes/printStory.cfm?xla='saen'&xlb=380&xlc=1101934
___________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"When Ana Contreras walked through the doors of
the Allied Women's Center two years ago, she
was prepared to have an abortion.
[...]
"Owen recalled a pregnant 16-year-old who
came to the center with her 2-year-old and
4-month-old children. She said these girls
often are looking for love, and 'to them,
sex is love.'
[...]
___________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We need many more crisis pregnancy centers like
this and fewer "chop shops."
==========================================================================
MINXS wrote:
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three
children is such a good idea....
==========================================================================
Papa Jack remarked:
I agree. In fact, in most cases it would be
uncomfortable for a 16-year old to have even
ONE CHILD. But, the solution is not to make
it easier to kill their unborn children. Rat-
her, at least part of the solution is education
-- including moral standards which give teen
girls a reason to say "NO."
==========================================================================
MINXS wrote:
...I listened to a CPC representative on the
crazy Christian radio station a while back,...
==========================================================================
Papa Jack replied:
Hmmmm. Are you trying to suggest this one
anecdotal account is a good reason to get
rid of such crisis pregnancy centers?
==========================================================================
MINXS wrote:
and she was proud of having talked a 12-year-
old rape victim out of having an abortion.
That's just sick.
==========================================================================
Papa Jack replied:
Why? Neither you nor I know anything about the
maturity and health of this particular young
girl. In some cases, it would be very risky
for a 12-year old to go thru pregnancy and birth.
In other cases, the 12-year old would be more
able to endure the experience. The family
doctor is in the best position to offer advice.
If the family decided on an abortion, I would
support that decision -- because the pregnancy
is a result of rape.
OTOH, what if the girl is mature and healthy
and the parents are willing to help raise the
new child -- at least until the 12-year old
could reach maturity?
.
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| User: "M is for Malapert" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
29 Dec 2003 03:29:10 PM |
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"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0312231053.2bef58fe@posting.google.com...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:<CbpFb.451264$275.1326266@attbi_s53>...
and she was proud of having talked a 12-year-
old rape victim out of having an abortion.
That's just sick.
Why? Neither you nor I know anything about the
maturity and health of this particular young
girl. In some cases, it would be very risky
for a 12-year old to go thru pregnancy and birth.
In other cases, the 12-year old would be more
able to endure the experience. The family
doctor is in the best position to offer advice.
In other words, NOT a "crisis pregnancy center" operative.
If the family decided on an abortion, I would
support that decision -- because the pregnancy
is a result of rape.
Given that the CPC operative was proud of having "talked them out of having
an abortion", I think we can conclude that at least some family members had
decided on an abortion. Personally I believe the 12-year-old herself is the
one whose opinion ought to count most. After all, it's not "the family" who
will be going through pregnancy, labor, childbirth, delivery, and either
adoption or being a subteenaged mother and her child.
OTOH, what if the girl is mature and healthy
and the parents are willing to help raise the
new child -- at least until the 12-year old
could reach maturity?
It sounds like a decision for the 12-year-old to make along with her doctor
and her family, not in the context of a religious "crisis pregnancy center"
that showed her a bunch of misleading videos about abortion. It didn't
matter at all to the CPC woman what the circumstances were - she was only
proud of having talked the girl and her family out of having an abortion.
.
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| User: "David Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
21 Dec 2003 04:38:55 PM |
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In article <CbpFb.451264$275.1326266@attbi_s53>, M is for Malapert
<minxs@sonic.net> wrote:
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0312201427.4b3ac958@posting.google.com...
"Owen recalled a pregnant 16-year-old who
came to the center with her 2-year-old and
4-month-old children. She said these girls
often are looking for love, and 'to them,
sex is love.'
We need many more crisis pregnancy centers like
this and fewer "chop shops."
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three children is such a good
idea. I listened to a CPC representative on the crazy Christian radio
station a while back, and she was proud of having talked a 12-year-old rape
victim out of having an abortion. That's just sick.
No - That's "Christian."
.
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| User: "Papa Jack" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
23 Dec 2003 01:49:08 PM |
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reptile944@aol.com (Reptile944) wrote in message
news:<20031222114538.15462.00005120@mb-m06.aol.com>...
In article <211220031438558377%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>, David Barnes
<dbarnes111@yahoo.com> writes:
========================================================================
MINXS wrote:
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three children is such a good
idea. I listened to a CPC representative on the crazy Christian radio
station a while back, and she was proud of having talked a 12-year-old rape
victim out of having an abortion. That's just sick.
========================================================================
David Barnes:
No - That's "Christian."
************************************************************************
Reptile944 wrote:
It has also been very "Christian" to condem that
young girl, and refer to her as "damaged goods."...
========================================================================
Papa Jack shook his head:
I feel sad when I read such misleading statements.
I've associated with Christians (of all varieties)
since childhood in both the military and in civilian
life -- and I would call such attitudes to be VERY
rare by Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Lutherns, ...
Perhaps you were raised in a harsher environment
with some very hateful people who called themselves
Christians. That's not typical.
************************************************************************
Reptile944 wrote:
You see, rabid fundamentalist Christians...
========================================================================
Papa Jack remarked:
Are you trying to get our readers to believe
that ALL fundamentalist Christians are narrow-
minded bigots who are eager to "throw the first
stone at 12-year olds?"
************************************************************************
Reptile944 wrote:
...like to believe that "proper" Christian
men want nothing to do with 12 year olds
that have had sex and delivered babies, even
if they put them up for adoption. It doesn't
matter if she was raped or not....She was
very evidently "asking for it" by her
behavior....
========================================================================
Papa Jack commented:
I'm sure there really are some who would act
the way you describe, Reptile. But, you and
I both know they are NOT really Christians.
************************************************************************
Reptile944 wrote:
...Same as the stinking Taliban.......
It was the MO of the kind of people I was
raised by starting in those glorious 50s.
I thought it to be a lot of crap then, and
I still see it as a lot of crap. You have
no idea how happy I was to see that ***** go
the way of the dinosour in the US, at least.
Hateful people: They are consummed with hatred,
and judgement and punishment.
========================================================================
Papa Jack stared:
I'm sorry. But, please understand, Reptile,
that those folks were not typical of ALL
true Christians.
I don't know about your knowledge of the Bible
but if you have read Jesus' lessons you would
know what you describe is the opposite of
his commands.
OTOH, remember, the Church is not for perfect
humans -- rather it is for all us sinners.
.
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| User: "Bob SD" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
23 Dec 2003 03:39:23 PM |
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(Papa Jack) wrote in
news:6f9e1b49.0312231149.64d187ce@posting.google.com:
reptile944@aol.com (Reptile944) wrote in message
news:<20031222114538.15462.00005120@mb-m06.aol.com>...
In article <211220031438558377%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>, David Barnes
<dbarnes111@yahoo.com> writes:
========================================================================
MINXS wrote:
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three children is such a
good idea. I listened to a CPC representative on the crazy
Christian radio station a while back, and she was proud of having
talked a 12-year-old rape victim out of having an abortion. That's
just sick.
========================================================================
David Barnes:
No - That's "Christian."
***********************************************************************
*
Reptile944 wrote:
It has also been very "Christian" to condem that
young girl, and refer to her as "damaged goods."...
========================================================================
Papa Jack shook his head:
I feel sad when I read such misleading statements.
I've associated with Christians (of all varieties)
since childhood in both the military and in civilian
life -- and I would call such attitudes to be VERY
rare by Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Lutherns, ...
Perhaps you were raised in a harsher environment
with some very hateful people who called themselves
Christians. That's not typical.
***********************************************************************
*
Reptile944 wrote:
You see, rabid fundamentalist Christians...
========================================================================
Papa Jack remarked:
Are you trying to get our readers to believe
that ALL fundamentalist Christians are narrow-
minded bigots who are eager to "throw the first
stone at 12-year olds?"
***********************************************************************
*
Reptile944 wrote:
...like to believe that "proper" Christian
men want nothing to do with 12 year olds
that have had sex and delivered babies, even
if they put them up for adoption. It doesn't
matter if she was raped or not....She was
very evidently "asking for it" by her
behavior....
========================================================================
Papa Jack commented:
I'm sure there really are some who would act
the way you describe, Reptile. But, you and
I both know they are NOT really Christians.
***********************************************************************
*
Reptile944 wrote:
...Same as the stinking Taliban.......
It was the MO of the kind of people I was
raised by starting in those glorious 50s.
I thought it to be a lot of crap then, and
I still see it as a lot of crap. You have
no idea how happy I was to see that ***** go
the way of the dinosour in the US, at least.
Hateful people: They are consummed with hatred,
and judgement and punishment.
========================================================================
Papa Jack stared:
I'm sorry. But, please understand, Reptile,
that those folks were not typical of ALL
true Christians.
I don't know about your knowledge of the Bible
but if you have read Jesus' lessons you would
know what you describe is the opposite of
his commands.
OTOH, remember, the Church is not for perfect
humans -- rather it is for all us sinners.
Actually, the church is for buffoons, idiots, morons and people with
little or no confidence in their own natural abilities to control their
own lives and destinies. People kinda like you PJ.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
24 Dec 2003 02:56:50 AM |
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Papa Jackass <papajack@stic.net> wrote:
reptile944@aol.com (Reptile944) wrote in message
It has also been very "Christian" to condem that
young girl, and refer to her as "damaged goods."...
I feel sad when I read such misleading statements.
ROFL! Why, Jackass? Don't like the competition?
Or is it that you don't like the truth?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
21 Dec 2003 11:00:35 PM |
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In talk.abortion, David Barnes
<dbarnes111@yahoo.com>
wrote
on Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:38:55 -0800
<211220031438558377%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>:
In article <CbpFb.451264$275.1326266@attbi_s53>, M is for Malapert
<minxs@sonic.net> wrote:
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0312201427.4b3ac958@posting.google.com...
"Owen recalled a pregnant 16-year-old who
came to the center with her 2-year-old and
4-month-old children. She said these girls
often are looking for love, and 'to them,
sex is love.'
We need many more crisis pregnancy centers like
this and fewer "chop shops."
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three children is such a good
idea. I listened to a CPC representative on the crazy Christian radio
station a while back, and she was proud of having talked a 12-year-old rape
victim out of having an abortion. That's just sick.
No - That's "Christian."
Sounds like a variant of compassionate conservatism. (Blecch.)
Of course I am given to understand that marrying and having
children young was the norm, back in the late 1800's -
early 1900's. I cannot say it should be the norm today;
girls prior to about age 18 are probably not mature enough
physically to go through the rigors of childbirth and
rearing for 20 years, though there are many who have and
who haven't regretted it. (The ones that are still alive,
presumably.)
More power to 'em ... but it is not the only choice.
There are admittedly many issues here, not the least of
which is parental involvement if she is a minor -- and
that's assuming a more or less normal homelife, which
isn't always a given.
There's another, darker side. That 16-year-old -- is she
looking for love from men, or is she looking for love from
her children? AIUI, some girls have sex and children so
that they can have someone look up to them, helping their
self-esteem; of course it doesn't quite work out that way
as what pops out is nearly helpless.
I can't say I like the idea of a pregnant 12-year-old
having a child, generally. I'm not sure I like the idea
of a 12-year-old having sex, either -- though that's also
not my decision to make unless I'm her parent, and even
then I'd probably want to carefully outline the risks
involved (one of them being pregnancy), as opposed to an
outright prohibition. Of course I've not had to deal with
recalcitrant teenagers, either; I have no idea how well
this approach will work. :-)
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
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| User: "David Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
22 Dec 2003 01:24:48 AM |
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In article <f42ib1-7b9.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net>, The Ghost In
The Machine <ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:
In talk.abortion, David Barnes
<dbarnes111@yahoo.com>
wrote
on Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:38:55 -0800
<211220031438558377%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>:
In article <CbpFb.451264$275.1326266@attbi_s53>, M is for Malapert
<minxs@sonic.net> wrote:
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0312201427.4b3ac958@posting.google.com...
"Owen recalled a pregnant 16-year-old who
came to the center with her 2-year-old and
4-month-old children. She said these girls
often are looking for love, and 'to them,
sex is love.'
We need many more crisis pregnancy centers like
this and fewer "chop shops."
Somehow I don't think a 16-year-old having three children is such a good
idea. I listened to a CPC representative on the crazy Christian radio
station a while back, and she was proud of having talked a 12-year-old rape
victim out of having an abortion. That's just sick.
No - That's "Christian."
Sounds like a variant of compassionate conservatism. (Blecch.)
Of course I am given to understand that marrying and having
children young was the norm, back in the late 1800's -
early 1900's. I cannot say it should be the norm today;
girls prior to about age 18 are probably not mature enough
physically to go through the rigors of childbirth and
rearing for 20 years, though there are many who have and
who haven't regretted it. (The ones that are still alive,
presumably.)
More power to 'em ... but it is not the only choice.
There are admittedly many issues here, not the least of
which is parental involvement if she is a minor -- and
that's assuming a more or less normal homelife, which
isn't always a given.
There's another, darker side. That 16-year-old -- is she
looking for love from men, or is she looking for love from
her children? AIUI, some girls have sex and children so
that they can have someone look up to them, helping their
self-esteem; of course it doesn't quite work out that way
as what pops out is nearly helpless.
I can't say I like the idea of a pregnant 12-year-old
having a child, generally. I'm not sure I like the idea
of a 12-year-old having sex, either -- though that's also
not my decision to make unless I'm her parent, and even
then I'd probably want to carefully outline the risks
involved (one of them being pregnancy), as opposed to an
outright prohibition. Of course I've not had to deal with
recalcitrant teenagers, either; I have no idea how well
this approach will work. :-)
I'm a pragmatist. I believe in letting women choose for the
practicality. Why anyone would want a person who doesn't want a child
to be forced into having one is beyond me. It certainly doesn't say
much about the pro-life's desire for children to have any kind of life.
.
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| User: "golddodgearies" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
22 Dec 2003 04:53:50 PM |
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David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<211220032324488999%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
I'm a pragmatist. I believe in letting women choose for the
practicality. Why anyone would want a person who doesn't want a child
to be forced into having one is beyond me. It certainly doesn't say
much about the pro-life's desire for children to have any kind of life.
Doesn't prove it's not objectively murder, retard. That's the issue.
.
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| User: "David Barnes" |
|
| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
22 Dec 2003 10:56:23 PM |
|
|
In article <44e87bc2.0312221453.74841454@posting.google.com>,
golddodgearies <golddodgearies@yahoo.com> wrote:
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<211220032324488999%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
I'm a pragmatist. I believe in letting women choose for the
practicality. Why anyone would want a person who doesn't want a child
to be forced into having one is beyond me. It certainly doesn't say
much about the pro-life's desire for children to have any kind of life.
Doesn't prove it's not objectively murder, retard. That's the issue.
Your "issue" seems to be that you claim abortion is murder without
proof. If it is murder, why aren't people prosecuted for murder when
they kill a fetus?
It isn't murder. The fact that you feel the need to claim otherwise
only demonstrates you can't refute the truth. THAT demonstrates the
truth is irrefutable, at least, by you.
.
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| User: "golddodgearies" |
|
| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
23 Dec 2003 08:13:55 PM |
|
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David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<221220032056237536%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
In article <44e87bc2.0312221453.74841454@posting.google.com>,
golddodgearies <golddodgearies@yahoo.com> wrote:
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<211220032324488999%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
I'm a pragmatist. I believe in letting women choose for the
practicality. Why anyone would want a person who doesn't want a child
to be forced into having one is beyond me. It certainly doesn't say
much about the pro-life's desire for children to have any kind of life.
Doesn't prove it's not objectively murder, retard. That's the issue.
Your "issue" seems to be that you claim abortion is murder without
proof.
The parents are proof, retard.
.
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| User: "David Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
23 Dec 2003 11:12:05 PM |
|
|
In article <44e87bc2.0312231813.3e7591f9@posting.google.com>,
golddodgearies <golddodgearies@yahoo.com> wrote:
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<221220032056237536%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
In article <44e87bc2.0312221453.74841454@posting.google.com>,
golddodgearies <golddodgearies@yahoo.com> wrote:
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<211220032324488999%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
I'm a pragmatist. I believe in letting women choose for the
practicality. Why anyone would want a person who doesn't want a child
to be forced into having one is beyond me. It certainly doesn't say
much about the pro-life's desire for children to have any kind of life.
Doesn't prove it's not objectively murder, retard. That's the issue.
Your "issue" seems to be that you claim abortion is murder without
proof.
The parents are proof, retard.
Do you always talk in circles? I will ask again. Can someone out
there please tell me who on this NG is pro-life and able to discuss the
issues? Can any pro-lifers out there actually discuss abortion without
demonstrating they are either uneducated, immature, twisted, or all the
above?
I'm bored with the current "selection."
.
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| User: "golddodgearies" |
|
| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
29 Dec 2003 10:46:46 PM |
|
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David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<231220032112050995%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
In article <44e87bc2.0312231813.3e7591f9@posting.google.com>,
golddodgearies <golddodgearies@yahoo.com> wrote:
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<221220032056237536%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
In article <44e87bc2.0312221453.74841454@posting.google.com>,
golddodgearies <golddodgearies@yahoo.com> wrote:
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<211220032324488999%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
I'm a pragmatist. I believe in letting women choose for the
practicality. Why anyone would want a person who doesn't want a child
to be forced into having one is beyond me. It certainly doesn't say
much about the pro-life's desire for children to have any kind of life.
Doesn't prove it's not objectively murder, retard. That's the issue.
Your "issue" seems to be that you claim abortion is murder without
proof.
The parents are proof, retard.
Do you always talk in circles?
Gee, good 'refutation', murderer.
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
|
| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
31 Dec 2003 10:35:41 AM |
|
|
(golddodgearies) wrote in
news:44e87bc2.0312292046.d375eab@posting.google.com:
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<231220032112050995%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
In article <44e87bc2.0312231813.3e7591f9@posting.google.com>,
golddodgearies < > wrote:
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<221220032056237536%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
In article <44e87bc2.0312221453.74841454@posting.google.com>,
golddodgearies < > wrote:
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<211220032324488999%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
I'm a pragmatist. I believe in letting women choose for
the practicality. Why anyone would want a person who
doesn't want a child to be forced into having one is beyond
me. It certainly doesn't say much about the pro-life's
desire for children to have any kind of life.
Doesn't prove it's not objectively murder, retard. That's the
issue.
Your "issue" seems to be that you claim abortion is murder
without proof.
The parents are proof, retard.
Do you always talk in circles?
Gee, good 'refutation', murderer.
you previously admitted that abortion was not murder and that you
knowingly lied when you falsely accused another of murder
--
"James Keegan has shown he does not favor and/or support
legalized abortion."
-coward bobby heishman lying as "Osprey"
<noneedstoknow@mail.com>
news:1eednfCfCfJV3nOiRVn-hg@comcast.com:
"I also have you on record for not supporting and/or favoring legalized
abortion as well."
-Robert Heishman lying as coward Osprey about Ray Fischer in
<ouednVs5R7Zs5m2iRVn-vA@comcast.com>
.
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| User: "pr0r3p" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
30 Dec 2003 10:19:35 AM |
|
|
(golddodgearies) wrote in message news:<44e87bc2.0312292046.d375eab@posting.google.com>...
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<231220032112050995%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
In article <44e87bc2.0312231813.3e7591f9@posting.google.com>,
golddodgearies < > wrote:
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<221220032056237536%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
In article <44e87bc2.0312221453.74841454@posting.google.com>,
golddodgearies < > wrote:
David Barnes <dbarnes111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<211220032324488999%dbarnes111@yahoo.com>...
I'm a pragmatist. I believe in letting women choose for the
practicality. Why anyone would want a person who doesn't want a child
to be forced into having one is beyond me. It certainly doesn't say
much about the pro-life's desire for children to have any kind of life.
Doesn't prove it's not objectively murder, retard. That's the issue.
Your "issue" seems to be that you claim abortion is murder without
proof.
The parents are proof, retard.
Do you always talk in circles?
Gee, good 'refutation', murderer.
Gee, here you go demanding that people refute your claim that you have
yet to prove is valid.
I just love the way you twist and squirm when you are asked to provide
proof of your claim and the way you try to turn things around by
demanding that others show your ***** claim is false. Here's your
free clue for the day *****: Until you provide evidence that your
claim is valid, it is considered *****. And, no one needs to
refute a claim that is *****.
.
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| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
20 Dec 2003 05:25:16 PM |
|
|
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0312201427.4b3ac958@posting.google.com...
On 12/20/2003 the San Antonio Express-News
posted an article by Rebeca Rodriguez titled:
"Allied Women's Center Aids Moms in Crisis."
Go to:
http://news.mysanantonio.com/global-includes/printStory.cfm?xla='saen'&xlb=380&xlc=1101934
___________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"When Ana Contreras walked through the doors of
the Allied Women's Center two years ago, she
was prepared to have an abortion.
"With three young children already at home, another
baby would be too difficult to raise, she thought.
Then she called the center.
"'They gave me baby blankets, baby clothes,
Pampers, whatever I needed," said Contreras, 32.
"That was two years ago, and Contreras and her
husband are thrilled to have kept their child,
a baby boy named Salvador.
"'I don't know what I would have done without
them,' she said of the center.
"For women facing a crisis pregnancy, the Allied
Women's Center of San Antonio is a godsend.
Most of the women who walk through the doors
of the center are economically disadvantaged
single mothers between the ages of 20 and 26
who already have at least one child.
"By providing basic help with things like rent
and diapers, the center's staff helps provide
an alternative to abortion for women who
want to keep their babies.
"'For so many women, abortion is not a choice,
it's the lack of a choice,' said Tere Haring,
the center's executive director. 'It's one
thing to say to these women, 'Don't have an
abortion,' but you have to offer practical
help.'
"The center is one of many area nonprofit groups
the San Antonio Express-News is featuring in its
annual Grace of Giving series, which runs daily
through Christmas.
"At a nondescript second-floor office on North
Main Street, mothers can rummage through cup-
boards for bags of diapers, baby clothes, boo-
ties and larger items like cribs and strollers.
"They also can get free pregnancy testing, money
for rent and utility bills, and anything else they
might need.
[...]
"Often, teenagers walk through the front door,
desperate for direction.
"Owen recalled a pregnant 16-year-old who
came to the center with her 2-year-old and
4-month-old children. She said these girls
often are looking for love, and 'to them,
sex is love.'
"Although the center is an anti-abortion
organization whose members tend to abide
by Christian principles, Haring said they do
not actively evangelize or try to convert.
"'Our purpose is to fill your needs, whatever
your needs are,' Haring said."
[...]
___________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We need many more crisis pregnancy centers like
this and fewer "chop shops."
If we actually had more places like these there would probably *be* fewer
"chop shops".
Why does it only run thru christmas and not year- round though? Women get
pregnant all year.
--
"What's worse than a knee-jerk liberal? A kneepad conservative , that's
what, forever groveling before the rich and powerful"
--Edward Abbey
Happy holidays.
.
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| User: "Papa Jack" |
|
| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
22 Dec 2003 12:04:32 PM |
|
|
"--sexkitten--" <ladyhawk_twonospam@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:<bs2lqm$8v4or$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote:
========================================================================
Papa Jack cited:
On 12/20/2003 the San Antonio Express-News
posted an article by Rebeca Rodriguez titled:
"Allied Women's Center Aids Moms in Crisis."
Go to:
http://news.mysanantonio.com/global-includes/printStory.cfm?xla='saen'&xlb=380&xlc=1101934
___________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"When Ana Contreras walked through the doors of
the Allied Women's Center two years ago, she
was prepared to have an abortion.
"With three young children already at home, another
baby would be too difficult to raise, she thought.
Then she called the center.
"'They gave me baby blankets, baby clothes,
Pampers, whatever I needed," said Contreras, 32.
"That was two years ago, and Contreras and her
husband are thrilled to have kept their child,
a baby boy named Salvador.
"'I don't know what I would have done without
them,' she said of the center.
"For women facing a crisis pregnancy, the Allied
Women's Center of San Antonio is a godsend.
Most of the women who walk through the doors
of the center are economically disadvantaged
single mothers between the ages of 20 and 26
who already have at least one child.
"By providing basic help with things like rent
and diapers, the center's staff helps provide
an alternative to abortion for women who
want to keep their babies.
"'For so many women, abortion is not a choice,
it's the lack of a choice,' said Tere Haring,
the center's executive director. 'It's one
thing to say to these women, 'Don't have an
abortion,' but you have to offer practical
help.'
"The center is one of many area nonprofit groups
the San Antonio Express-News is featuring in its
annual Grace of Giving series, which runs daily
through Christmas.
"At a nondescript second-floor office on North
Main Street, mothers can rummage through cup-
boards for bags of diapers, baby clothes, boo-
ties and larger items like cribs and strollers.
"They also can get free pregnancy testing, money
for rent and utility bills, and anything else they
might need.
[...]
"Often, teenagers walk through the front door,
desperate for direction.
"Owen recalled a pregnant 16-year-old who
came to the center with her 2-year-old and
4-month-old children. She said these girls
often are looking for love, and 'to them,
sex is love.'
"Although the center is an anti-abortion
organization whose members tend to abide
by Christian principles, Haring said they do
not actively evangelize or try to convert.
"'Our purpose is to fill your needs, whatever
your needs are,' Haring said."
[...]
___________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We need many more crisis pregnancy centers like
this and fewer "chop shops."
========================================================================
Kitten wrote:
If we actually had more places like these there
would probably *be* fewer "chop shops".
========================================================================
Papa Jack commented:
I totally agree.
========================================================================
Kitten wrote:
...Why does it only run thru christmas and not
year- round though? Women get pregnant all year.
========================================================================
Papa Jack commented:
Sorry, Kitten, but you misread that part of
the article. Let's review:
"The center is one of many area nonprofit
groups the San Antonio Express-News is
featuring in its annual Grace of Giving
series, which runs daily through Christmas."
The Express-News is running a series of articles
on nonprofit groups. The Allied Women's Center is
just one of the groups featured. The SERIES (not
the Center) will end Christmas.
Happy holidays.
.
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| User: "MichealJacko777" |
|
| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
20 Dec 2003 05:17:53 PM |
|
|
Subject: Moms in Crisis
From: (Papa Jack)
Date: 12/20/03 2:27 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <6f9e1b49.0312201427.4b3ac958@posting.google.com>
On 12/20/2003 the San Antonio Express-News
posted an article by Rebeca Rodriguez titled:
"Allied Women's Center Aids Moms in Crisis."
Go to:
http://news.mysanantonio.com/global-includes/printStory.cfm?xla='saen'&xl
b=380&xlc=1101934
___________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"When Ana Contreras walked through the doors of
the Allied Women's Center two years ago, she
was prepared to have an abortion.
"With three young children already at home, another
baby would be too difficult to raise, she thought.
Then she called the center.
"'They gave me baby blankets, baby clothes,
Pampers, whatever I needed," said Contreras, 32.
"That was two years ago, and Contreras and her
husband are thrilled to have kept their child,
a baby boy named Salvador.
"'I don't know what I would have done without
them,' she said of the center.
"For women facing a crisis pregnancy, the Allied
Women's Center of San Antonio is a godsend.
Most of the women who walk through the doors
of the center are economically disadvantaged
single mothers between the ages of 20 and 26
who already have at least one child.
"By providing basic help with things like rent
and diapers, the center's staff helps provide
an alternative to abortion for women who
want to keep their babies.
"'For so many women, abortion is not a choice,
it's the lack of a choice,' said Tere Haring,
the center's executive director. 'It's one
thing to say to these women, 'Don't have an
abortion,' but you have to offer practical
help.'
"The center is one of many area nonprofit groups
the San Antonio Express-News is featuring in its
annual Grace of Giving series, which runs daily
through Christmas.
"At a nondescript second-floor office on North
Main Street, mothers can rummage through cup-
boards for bags of diapers, baby clothes, boo-
ties and larger items like cribs and strollers.
"They also can get free pregnancy testing, money
for rent and utility bills, and anything else they
might need.
[...]
"Often, teenagers walk through the front door,
desperate for direction.
"Owen recalled a pregnant 16-year-old who
came to the center with her 2-year-old and
4-month-old children. She said these girls
often are looking for love, and 'to them,
sex is love.'
"Although the center is an anti-abortion
organization whose members tend to abide
by Christian principles, Haring said they do
not actively evangelize or try to convert.
"'Our purpose is to fill your needs, whatever
your needs are,' Haring said."
[...]
___________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We need many more crisis pregnancy centers like
this and fewer "chop shops."
Yeah but then you Xian right wingers
go and elect conservatives who cut welfare and other social programs , which
puts more pressure on poor moms , so they have to go have a abortion , because
the GOP has cut all the welfare and health benifits for poor mothers and their
children. And then the stupid GOP turns around and tells those same mothers
that a abortion is a sin and will be outlawed
What do they want a bunch of starving babys like they have in India.
What a bunch of convolted thinking on the part of the GOP , they cut the
welfare benifits
that the mothers need to take care of their children , they cut these programs
so that taxes on the rich can be cut. Then they go and tell the mothers whose
benifits they have just cut that they can no longer have a abortion. It seems
like you Christian
right wingers just want to fill this world to the brim with billions and
billions of starving babys
Your religion is stupid and full of crap
You say you want to save the unborn
then you elect right wingers like Bush
who cut taxes on the rich and cut the welfare benifits for poor mothers, and
cut the health benifits for their children.
Your churches back people like Bush
who promise to outlaw abortion but who also
cut the welfare benifits these mothers need to take care of those children
Fine you rich right wingers in the GOP don't want high taxes to pay for welfare
programs
fine , but then don't go and tell a woman
what she can and cannot do with her own body, just because your stupid religion
and your stupid God says so.
If your God is so powerful and so Good
then why the ***** won't he get his *****
down here and take care of these problems
if he will not , then just say ***** God we won't worship him anymore.
Even if God really did exist
it would be necessary to abolish him.
You don't get it the only reason the
GOP wants to outlaw abortion is because
they need more cannon fodder to go fight their wars for them and they need more
minimum wage slaves.
And you stupid xians go along with that program.
.
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| User: "John Wentzky" |
|
| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
21 Dec 2003 03:57:44 AM |
|
|
Good story. Since the government won't help by shutting down the death camps
of Planned Parenthood, how can we expect women and men to stop offering
their babies to the money-grubbing abortion clinics?
And, how can we expect girls not to go wild?
"Papa Jack" <papajack@stic.net> wrote in message
news:6f9e1b49.0312201427.4b3ac958@posting.google.com...
On 12/20/2003 the San Antonio Express-News
posted an article by Rebeca Rodriguez titled:
"Allied Women's Center Aids Moms in Crisis."
Go to:
http://news.mysanantonio.com/global-includes/printStory.cfm?xla='saen'&xlb=380&xlc=1101934
___________________________________________________________________________
Excerpts:
"When Ana Contreras walked through the doors of
the Allied Women's Center two years ago, she
was prepared to have an abortion.
"With three young children already at home, another
baby would be too difficult to raise, she thought.
Then she called the center.
"'They gave me baby blankets, baby clothes,
Pampers, whatever I needed," said Contreras, 32.
"That was two years ago, and Contreras and her
husband are thrilled to have kept their child,
a baby boy named Salvador.
"'I don't know what I would have done without
them,' she said of the center.
"For women facing a crisis pregnancy, the Allied
Women's Center of San Antonio is a godsend.
Most of the women who walk through the doors
of the center are economically disadvantaged
single mothers between the ages of 20 and 26
who already have at least one child.
"By providing basic help with things like rent
and diapers, the center's staff helps provide
an alternative to abortion for women who
want to keep their babies.
"'For so many women, abortion is not a choice,
it's the lack of a choice,' said Tere Haring,
the center's executive director. 'It's one
thing to say to these women, 'Don't have an
abortion,' but you have to offer practical
help.'
"The center is one of many area nonprofit groups
the San Antonio Express-News is featuring in its
annual Grace of Giving series, which runs daily
through Christmas.
"At a nondescript second-floor office on North
Main Street, mothers can rummage through cup-
boards for bags of diapers, baby clothes, boo-
ties and larger items like cribs and strollers.
"They also can get free pregnancy testing, money
for rent and utility bills, and anything else they
might need.
[...]
"Often, teenagers walk through the front door,
desperate for direction.
"Owen recalled a pregnant 16-year-old who
came to the center with her 2-year-old and
4-month-old children. She said these girls
often are looking for love, and 'to them,
sex is love.'
"Although the center is an anti-abortion
organization whose members tend to abide
by Christian principles, Haring said they do
not actively evangelize or try to convert.
"'Our purpose is to fill your needs, whatever
your needs are,' Haring said."
[...]
___________________________________________________________________________
Papa Jack comments:
We need many more crisis pregnancy centers like
this and fewer "chop shops."
Happy holidays.
.
|
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| User: "M is for Malapert" |
|
| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
29 Dec 2003 03:21:42 PM |
|
|
"John Wentzky" <ciojohn@incomeasap.com> wrote in message
news:s8eFb.3140$IM3.365@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Good story. Since the government won't help by shutting down the death
camps
of Planned Parenthood, how can we expect women and men to stop offering
their babies to the money-grubbing abortion clinics?
And, how can we expect girls not to go wild?
The "pro-life" position in a nutshell. If abortion isn't a scary, dangerous
illegal procedure and single mothers aren't stigmatized along with their
bastards, and contraception isn't made hard to get... how can we expect
girls not to go wild? What a nightmare!
.
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| User: "golddodgearies" |
|
| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis |
29 Dec 2003 10:45:27 PM |
|
|
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message news:<GV0Ib.166242$8y1.496816@attbi_s52>...
[snip]
You still haven't proven unborn children are non-humans. Good luck, murderer.
.
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| User: "revolutionarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis - responsiblity denied. |
22 Dec 2003 05:52:11 AM |
|
|
Ha! A poor woman with three kids already at home makes the responsible
decition to abort a forth pregnancy and the next thing we hear is how
they went and gave her baby supplies. Was that a gesture of support for
the baby and it's long term welfare or was it really a polite way of
denying her the abortion and forcing her into reproductive servitude?
Sure, now that she has her fourth child, we hope she loves and cares for
him. However, she has more than she can handle and being poor only makes
it worse. Statisticaly, she is among those mothers who are most likely
to loose their temper and abuse their children. And, her kids are most
likely to become criminals and wind up in jail or prison.
The clinic would have served us all better had they simply offered her
contraceptives and prophylacticts the year before.
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| User: "golddodgearies" |
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| Title: Re: Moms in Crisis - responsiblity denied. |
26 Dec 2003 08:26:14 AM |
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"revolutionarian" <revolutionarian@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<LVAFb.14676$Pg1.2931@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
Ha! A poor woman with three kids already at home makes the responsible
decition to abort a forth pregnancy
No, retard, you assume it's 'responsible' to murder a child because
it's mother is poor.
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