More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell



 Science > Abortion > More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell

LINK TO THIS PAGE  


rating :  0   |  0


  Page 1 of 2

1

 

2

 
Topic: Science > Abortion
User: "Whack A Whigger"
Date: 25 Jun 2007 03:13:23 PM
Object: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell
WHO REALLY CARES - Arthur C. Brooks
Is Compassionate Conservatism an Oxymoron?
The conventional wisdom runs like this: Liberals are charitable
because they advocate government redistribution of money in the name
of social justice; conservatives are uncharitable because they oppose
these policies. But note the sleight of hand: Government spending,
according to this logic, is a form of charity.
Let us be clear: Government spending is not charity. It is not a
voluntary sacrifice by individuals. No matter how beneficial or humane
it might be, no matter how necessary it is for providing public
services, it is still the obligatory redistribution of tax revenues.
Because government spending is not charity, sanctimonious yard signs
do not prove that the bearers are charitable or that their opponents
are selfish. (On the contrary, a public attack on the integrity of
those who don't share my beliefs might more legitimately constitute
evidence that I am the uncharitable one.)
To evaluate accurately the charity difference between liberals and
conservatives, we must consider private, voluntary charity. How do
liberals and conservatives compare in their private giving and
volunteering? Beyond strident slogans and sarcastic political
caricatures, what, exactly, do the data tell us?
The data tell us that the conventional wisdom is dead wrong. In most
ways, political conservatives are not personally less charitable than
political liberals-they are more so.
First, we must define "liberals" and "conservatives." Most surveys ask
people not just about their political party affiliation but also about
their ideology. In general, about 10 percent of the population
classify themselves as "very conservative"; and another 10 percent
call themselves "very liberal." About 20 percent say they are simply
"liberal," and 30 percent or so say they are "conservative." The
remaining 30 percent call themselves "moderates" or "centrists." In
this discussion, by "liberals" I mean the approximately 30 percent in
the two most liberal categories, and by conservatives I mean the 40
percent or so in the two most con=ADservative categories.
So how do liberals and conservatives compare in their charity? When it
comes to giving or not giving, conservatives and liberals look a lot
alike. Conservative people are a percentage point or two more likely
to give money each year than liberal people, but a percentage point or
so less likely to volunteer.
But this similarity fades away when we consider average dollar amounts
donated. In 2000, households headed by a conservative gave, on
average, 30 percent more money to charity than households headed by a
liberal ($1,600 to $1,227). This discrepancy is not simply an artifact
of income differences; on the contrary, liberal families earned an
average of 6 percent more per year than conservative families, and
conservative families gave more than liberal families within every
income class, from poor to middle class to rich.
If we look at party affiliation instead of ideology, the story remains
largely the same. For example, registered Republicans were seven
points more likely to give at least once in 2002 than registered
Democrats (90 to 83 percent).
The differences go beyond money and time. Take blood donations, for
example. In 2002, conservative Americans were more likely to donate
blood each year, and did so more often, than liberals. If liberals and
moderates gave blood at the same rate as conservatives, the blood
supply in the United States would jump by about 45 percent.
The political stereotypes break down even further when we consider
age: "Anyone who is not a socialist before age thirty has no heart,
but anyone who is still a socialist after thirty has no head," goes
the old saying. And so we imagine crusty right-wing grandfathers
socking their money away in trust funds while their liberal
grandchildren work in soup kitchens and save the whales. But young
liberals-perhaps the most vocally dissatisfied political constituency
in America today-are one of the least generous demographic groups out
there. In 2004, self-described liberals younger than thirty belonged
to one-third fewer organizations in their communities than young
conservatives. In 2002, they were 12 percent less likely to give money
to charities, and one-third less likely to give blood. Liberal young
Americans in 2004 were also significantly less likely than the young
conservatives to express a willingness to sacrifice for their loved
ones: A lower percentage said they would prefer to suffer than let a
loved one suffer, that they are not happy unless the loved one is
happy, or that they would sacrifice their own wishes for those they
love.
The compassion of American conservatives becomes even clearer when we
compare the results from the 2004 U.S. presidential election to data
on how states address charity. Using Internal Revenue Service data on
the percentage of household income given away in each state, we can
see that the red states are more charitable than the blue states. For
instance, of the twenty-five states that donated a portion of
household income above the national average, twenty-four gave a
majority of their popular votes to George W. Bush for president; only
one gave the election to John F. Kerry. Of the twenty-five states
below the national giving average, seventeen went for Kerry, but just
seven for Bush. In other words, the electoral map and the charity map
are remarkably similar.
These results are not an artifact of close elections in key states.
The average percentage of household income donated to charity in each
state tracked closely with the percentage of the popular vote it gave
to Mr. Bush. Among the states in which 60 percent or more voted for
Bush, the average portion of income donated to charity was 3.5
percent. For states giving Mr. Bush less than 40 percent of the vote,
the average was 1.9 percent. The average amount given per household
from the five states combined that gave Mr. Bush the highest vote
percentages in 2003 was 25 percent more than that donated by the
average household in the five northeastern states that gave Bush his
lowest vote percentages; and the households in these liberal-leaning
states earned, on average, 38 percent more than those in the five
conservative states.
People living in conservative states volunteer more than people in
liberal states. In 2003, the residents of the top five "Bush states"
were 51 percent more likely to volunteer than those of the bottom
five, and they volunteered an average of 12 percent more total hours
each year. Residents of these Republican-leaning states volunteered
more than twice as much for religious organizations, but also far more
for secular causes. For example, they were more than twice as likely
to volunteer to help the poor.
Surely Jimmy Carter would have been surprised to learn that the
selfish Americans he criticized so vociferously were most likely the
very people who elected him president.
=20
________________________________
Arthur C. Brooks is Professor of Public Administration and Director of
the Nonprofit Studies Program at Syracuse University's Maxwell School
of Citizenship and Public Affairs. In 2007, he will be a Visiting
Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. He holds a PhD and MPhil
in policy analysis, and an MA and BA in economics. Over the past eight
years, Mr. Brooks has published approximately 100 articles and books
on the connections between culture, politics, and economic life in
America.
.

User: "Kate "

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 25 Jun 2007 08:02:02 PM
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:13:23 -0700, Whack A Whigger
<nibapour@guerrillamail.net> wrote:

WHO REALLY CARES - Arthur C. Brooks
Is Compassionate Conservatism an Oxymoron?

The conventional wisdom runs like this: Liberals are charitable
because they advocate government redistribution of money in the name
of social justice; conservatives are uncharitable because they oppose
these policies. But note the sleight of hand: Government spending,
according to this logic, is a form of charity.

Let us be clear: Government spending is not charity. It is not a
voluntary sacrifice by individuals. No matter how beneficial or humane
it might be, no matter how necessary it is for providing public
services, it is still the obligatory redistribution of tax revenues.
Because government spending is not charity, sanctimonious yard signs
do not prove that the bearers are charitable or that their opponents
are selfish. (On the contrary, a public attack on the integrity of
those who don't share my beliefs might more legitimately constitute
evidence that I am the uncharitable one.)

To evaluate accurately the charity difference between liberals and
conservatives, we must consider private, voluntary charity. How do
liberals and conservatives compare in their private giving and
volunteering? Beyond strident slogans and sarcastic political
caricatures, what, exactly, do the data tell us?

The data tell us that the conventional wisdom is dead wrong. In most
ways, political conservatives are not personally less charitable than
political liberals-they are more so.

First, we must define "liberals" and "conservatives." Most surveys ask
people not just about their political party affiliation but also about
their ideology. In general, about 10 percent of the population
classify themselves as "very conservative"; and another 10 percent
call themselves "very liberal." About 20 percent say they are simply
"liberal," and 30 percent or so say they are "conservative." The
remaining 30 percent call themselves "moderates" or "centrists." In
this discussion, by "liberals" I mean the approximately 30 percent in
the two most liberal categories, and by conservatives I mean the 40
percent or so in the two most con­servative categories.

So how do liberals and conservatives compare in their charity? When it
comes to giving or not giving, conservatives and liberals look a lot
alike. Conservative people are a percentage point or two more likely
to give money each year than liberal people, but a percentage point or
so less likely to volunteer.

But this similarity fades away when we consider average dollar amounts
donated. In 2000, households headed by a conservative gave, on
average, 30 percent more money to charity than households headed by a
liberal ($1,600 to $1,227). This discrepancy is not simply an artifact
of income differences; on the contrary, liberal families earned an
average of 6 percent more per year than conservative families, and
conservative families gave more than liberal families within every
income class, from poor to middle class to rich.

If we look at party affiliation instead of ideology, the story remains
largely the same. For example, registered Republicans were seven
points more likely to give at least once in 2002 than registered
Democrats (90 to 83 percent).

The differences go beyond money and time. Take blood donations, for
example. In 2002, conservative Americans were more likely to donate
blood each year, and did so more often, than liberals. If liberals and
moderates gave blood at the same rate as conservatives, the blood
supply in the United States would jump by about 45 percent.

The political stereotypes break down even further when we consider
age: "Anyone who is not a socialist before age thirty has no heart,
but anyone who is still a socialist after thirty has no head," goes
the old saying. And so we imagine crusty right-wing grandfathers
socking their money away in trust funds while their liberal
grandchildren work in soup kitchens and save the whales. But young
liberals-perhaps the most vocally dissatisfied political constituency
in America today-are one of the least generous demographic groups out
there. In 2004, self-described liberals younger than thirty belonged
to one-third fewer organizations in their communities than young
conservatives. In 2002, they were 12 percent less likely to give money
to charities, and one-third less likely to give blood. Liberal young
Americans in 2004 were also significantly less likely than the young
conservatives to express a willingness to sacrifice for their loved
ones: A lower percentage said they would prefer to suffer than let a
loved one suffer, that they are not happy unless the loved one is
happy, or that they would sacrifice their own wishes for those they
love.

The compassion of American conservatives becomes even clearer when we
compare the results from the 2004 U.S. presidential election to data
on how states address charity. Using Internal Revenue Service data on
the percentage of household income given away in each state, we can
see that the red states are more charitable than the blue states. For
instance, of the twenty-five states that donated a portion of
household income above the national average, twenty-four gave a
majority of their popular votes to George W. Bush for president; only
one gave the election to John F. Kerry. Of the twenty-five states
below the national giving average, seventeen went for Kerry, but just
seven for Bush. In other words, the electoral map and the charity map
are remarkably similar.

These results are not an artifact of close elections in key states.
The average percentage of household income donated to charity in each
state tracked closely with the percentage of the popular vote it gave
to Mr. Bush. Among the states in which 60 percent or more voted for
Bush, the average portion of income donated to charity was 3.5
percent. For states giving Mr. Bush less than 40 percent of the vote,
the average was 1.9 percent. The average amount given per household
from the five states combined that gave Mr. Bush the highest vote
percentages in 2003 was 25 percent more than that donated by the
average household in the five northeastern states that gave Bush his
lowest vote percentages; and the households in these liberal-leaning
states earned, on average, 38 percent more than those in the five
conservative states.

People living in conservative states volunteer more than people in
liberal states. In 2003, the residents of the top five "Bush states"
were 51 percent more likely to volunteer than those of the bottom
five, and they volunteered an average of 12 percent more total hours
each year. Residents of these Republican-leaning states volunteered
more than twice as much for religious organizations, but also far more
for secular causes. For example, they were more than twice as likely
to volunteer to help the poor.

Surely Jimmy Carter would have been surprised to learn that the
selfish Americans he criticized so vociferously were most likely the
very people who elected him president.


________________________________

Arthur C. Brooks is Professor of Public Administration and Director of
the Nonprofit Studies Program at Syracuse University's Maxwell School
of Citizenship and Public Affairs. In 2007, he will be a Visiting
Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. He holds a PhD and MPhil
in policy analysis, and an MA and BA in economics. Over the past eight
years, Mr. Brooks has published approximately 100 articles and books
on the connections between culture, politics, and economic life in
America.

Charity is helping others with an agenda. Government programs allow
dignity and insure all who need it get help - not just those the
charities allow to get it.
It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.
Face it, you don't really want to help others, you just want the power
thrill that you get when you get when you get to pick and choose and
make others dance to get enough food and shelter to survive.
.
User: "David Schwartz"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 25 Jun 2007 08:08:30 PM
Kate wrote:

It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.

Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?
DS
.
User: "Pt. Lurk Pt."

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 25 Jun 2007 10:55:38 PM
"David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com> wrote in message
news:1182820110.750543.143850@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...


Kate wrote:

It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?

Do you really think the fact that 'most of the poor people in the United
States have cable television and air conditioning' outweighs the fact that
38,000,000 people in 'the richest country in the world' are unable to read
or write, and 40,000,000 don't have medical insurance...?
Don't worry: an answer written out for you by a mentally competent adult
will, on this occasion, suffice.
L.
.
User: "JoelKatz"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 27 Jun 2007 01:38:07 AM
On Jun 25, 8:55 pm, "Pt. Lurk" <Pt. L...@renvcom.net> wrote:

Do you really think the fact that 'most of the poor people in the United
States have cable television and air conditioning' outweighs the fact that
38,000,000 people in 'the richest country in the world' are unable to read
or write, and 40,000,000 don't have medical insurance...?

In a free society, people get to choose how to spend their time and
money. This may mean that more people can't read or write or don't
have health insurance. Certainly some people can't read or write or
don't have health insurance despite their desire and efforts, but the
numbers don't show that.
In any event, medical insurance (like all insurance) is a
statistically losing proposition, just like playing the lottery.
Perhaps a lot of people think the risk of self-insurance (since they
know they'll get medical care anyway) is reasonable to take.
DS
.
User: "Kate "

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 27 Jun 2007 08:49:01 AM
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:38:07 -0700, JoelKatz <davids@webmaster.com>
wrote:

On Jun 25, 8:55 pm, "Pt. Lurk" <Pt. L...@renvcom.net> wrote:

Do you really think the fact that 'most of the poor people in the United
States have cable television and air conditioning' outweighs the fact that
38,000,000 people in 'the richest country in the world' are unable to read
or write, and 40,000,000 don't have medical insurance...?


In a free society, people get to choose how to spend their time and
money. This may mean that more people can't read or write or don't
have health insurance. Certainly some people can't read or write or
don't have health insurance despite their desire and efforts, but the
numbers don't show that.

In any event, medical insurance (like all insurance) is a
statistically losing proposition, just like playing the lottery.
Perhaps a lot of people think the risk of self-insurance (since they
know they'll get medical care anyway) is reasonable to take.

DS

Medical insurance isn't available for everyone. No matter how much
money you have to spend on it. If you have any pre-existing
condition, they won't insure you. Period. The older you get, the
more likely this is.
You can get emergency care without insurance, which the rest of us
will pay for, with higher rates. But it will be ***** poor and you
won't get needed tests. Plus your credit will be completely ruined.
It makes a lot more sense for the government to have a basic health
plan that doesn't leave the working poor to get their health care only
when they've let it get so bad they need an emergency room.
.
User: "JoelKatz"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 27 Jun 2007 12:15:59 PM
On Jun 27, 6:49 am,
(Kate ) wrote:

Medical insurance isn't available for everyone. No matter how much
money you have to spend on it. If you have any pre-existing
condition, they won't insure you. Period. The older you get, the
more likely this is.

Of course. This is really a property of how the universe works. If
your house burns down every week, you can't get fire insurance.

You can get emergency care without insurance, which the rest of us
will pay for, with higher rates. But it will be ***** poor and you
won't get needed tests. Plus your credit will be completely ruined.

Yep. It sucks to be sick.

It makes a lot more sense for the government to have a basic health
plan that doesn't leave the working poor to get their health care only
when they've let it get so bad they need an emergency room.

The basic problem with our health care system is that we believe there
should only be a single tier. If we did the same thing with cars,
anyone who couldn't afford a Volvo would be walking.
Worse, if we did the same thing with cars, every new safety
development would be a threat. Since it would increase the cost of
cars, it would mean more people could not afford them. So progress
would actually make the situation worse and worse.
Sound like our health care situation?
DS
.
User: "Kate "

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 27 Jun 2007 09:44:01 PM
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:15:59 -0700, JoelKatz <davids@webmaster.com>
wrote:

On Jun 27, 6:49 am,

(Kate ) wrote:

Medical insurance isn't available for everyone. No matter how much
money you have to spend on it. If you have any pre-existing
condition, they won't insure you. Period. The older you get, the
more likely this is.


Of course. This is really a property of how the universe works. If
your house burns down every week, you can't get fire insurance.

You can get emergency care without insurance, which the rest of us
will pay for, with higher rates. But it will be ***** poor and you
won't get needed tests. Plus your credit will be completely ruined.


Yep. It sucks to be sick.

It makes a lot more sense for the government to have a basic health
plan that doesn't leave the working poor to get their health care only
when they've let it get so bad they need an emergency room.


The basic problem with our health care system is that we believe there
should only be a single tier. If we did the same thing with cars,
anyone who couldn't afford a Volvo would be walking.

I've worked a lot with medical and medicare. You are wrong on that
point.


Worse, if we did the same thing with cars, every new safety
development would be a threat. Since it would increase the cost of
cars, it would mean more people could not afford them. So progress
would actually make the situation worse and worse.

Sound like our health care situation?

I agree that better and more advanced health care raises the bar and
the price.
.
User: "JoelKatz"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 28 Jun 2007 03:33:34 PM
On Jun 27, 7:44 pm,
(Kate ) wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:15:59 -0700, JoelKatz <dav...@webmaster.com>
wrote:

The basic problem with our health care system is that we believe there
should only be a single tier. If we did the same thing with cars,
anyone who couldn't afford a Volvo would be walking.

I've worked a lot with medical and medicare. You are wrong on that
point.

It would help if you elaborated. Note that I'm not saying that there
is only a single tier. I'm saying that our national health care policy
is based around the belief that there should be only a single tier.

I agree that better and more advanced health care raises the bar and
the price.

Only if you believe there should only be a single tier. Imagine what a
disaster our computer industry would be today if over the last 40
years it was as heavily regulated as health care and the guiding
principle was that everybody should have only the very fastest
computers.
DS
.






User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 12:20:19 PM
David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:

It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?

Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: "JoelKatz"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 01 Jul 2007 07:44:39 PM
On Jun 26, 10:20 am,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:

Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?

Because of technology, progress, and a system (called freedom) that
promotes them, even at the expense of equality of results.
DS
.
User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 01 Jul 2007 10:53:31 PM
JoelKatz <davids@webmaster.com> wrote:

rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:

Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?


Because of technology, progress, and a system (called freedom) that
promotes them, even at the expense of equality of results.

That doesn't make sense.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: "JoelKatz"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 02 Jul 2007 05:12:28 AM
On Jul 1, 8:53 pm,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:

JoelKatz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

(Ray Fischer) wrote:

Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?

Because of technology, progress, and a system (called freedom) that
promotes them, even at the expense of equality of results.

That doesn't make sense.

Nevertheless, it is the truth. Poor people have cable television and
air conditioning because freedom has created them and made them
affordable.
DS
.
User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 02 Jul 2007 09:05:08 PM
JoelKatz <davids@webmaster.com> wrote:

rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:

JoelKatz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:

Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?


Because of technology, progress, and a system (called freedom) that
promotes them, even at the expense of equality of results.


That doesn't make sense.


Nevertheless, it is the truth.

No, it's inane stupidity.

Poor people have cable television and
air conditioning because freedom has created them and made them
affordable.

Logical fallacy: Assuming the conclusion.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.




User: ""

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 12:50:53 PM
On Jun 26, 1:20 pm,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:

David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:

It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?

Because he's using a US government definition of "poor",
involving income levels and use of public sources of
financial support. While there are many people who
are the sort of beg-in-the-streets, sleep-under-bridges
poor you're thinking of, "poor" as used by
the American government is a much broader label
than that.
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
.
User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 09:56:55 PM
<firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote:

rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:

David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:

It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?


Because he's using a US government definition of "poor",
involving income levels and use of public sources of
financial support. While there are many people who
are the sort of beg-in-the-streets, sleep-under-bridges
poor you're thinking of, "poor" as used by
the American government is a much broader label
than that.

I still see no evidence that even most people poor by government
standards have cable TV and A/C.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: "Let Em Eat Barbed Wire"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 10:34:26 PM
On Jun 26, 7:56 pm,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:

<firelock...@hotmail.com> wrote:

(Ray Fischer) wrote:

David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:

It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?


Because he's using a US government definition of "poor",
involving income levels and use of public sources of
financial support. While there are many people who
are the sort of beg-in-the-streets, sleep-under-bridges
poor you're thinking of, "poor" as used by
the American government is a much broader label
than that.


I still see no evidence that even most people poor by government
standards have cable TV and A/C.

Go to Harlem and check out those "poor" niggers wearing 200 dollar
Nike tennies shooting hoops.
.
User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 27 Jun 2007 12:05:27 AM
Let 'Em Eat Barbed Wire <traethec@guerrillamail.net> wrote:

On Jun 26, 7:56 pm,

(Ray Fischer) wrote:

<firelock...@hotmail.com> wrote:

(Ray Fischer) wrote:

David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:

It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?


Because he's using a US government definition of "poor",
involving income levels and use of public sources of
financial support. While there are many people who
are the sort of beg-in-the-streets, sleep-under-bridges
poor you're thinking of, "poor" as used by
the American government is a much broader label
than that.


I still see no evidence that even most people poor by government
standards have cable TV and A/C.


Go to Harlem and check out those "poor" niggers wearing 200 dollar
Nike tennies shooting hoops.

With $5 whores like you earning money for them?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Robert"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 27 Jun 2007 04:46:18 PM
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:34:26 -0700, Let 'Em Eat Barbed Wire
<traethec@guerrillamail.net> wrote:

On Jun 26, 7:56 pm,

(Ray Fischer) wrote:

<firelock...@hotmail.com> wrote:

(Ray Fischer) wrote:

David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:

It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?


Because he's using a US government definition of "poor",
involving income levels and use of public sources of
financial support. While there are many people who
are the sort of beg-in-the-streets, sleep-under-bridges
poor you're thinking of, "poor" as used by
the American government is a much broader label
than that.


I still see no evidence that even most people poor by government
standards have cable TV and A/C.


Go to Harlem and check out those "poor" niggers wearing 200 dollar
Nike tennies shooting hoops.

Pure capitalism, many work in the drug trade, and some pimp whores.
Look around for those that are on welfare, and really deserve it. Not
at all easy.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.



User: "Let Em Eat Barbed Wire"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 01:43:19 PM
On Jun 26, 10:50 am,
wrote:

Because he's using a US government definition of "poor",
involving income levels and use of public sources of
financial support. While there are many people who
are the sort of beg-in-the-streets, sleep-under-bridges
poor you're thinking of, "poor" as used by
the American government is a much broader label
than that.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Walt, what you have to remember is these socialists in here have a
vested interest in swelling the ranks of the poor, whether
artificially with cooked statistics or in actual fact. The more people
that are dependent on the "gubmint," the more political power they
have.
.
User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 09:56:07 PM
Let 'Em Eat Barbed Wire <traethec@guerrillamail.net> wrote:

On Jun 26, 10:50 am,

wrote:

Because he's using a US government definition of "poor",
involving income levels and use of public sources of
financial support. While there are many people who
are the sort of beg-in-the-streets, sleep-under-bridges
poor you're thinking of, "poor" as used by
the American government is a much broader label
than that.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet


Walt, what you have to remember is these socialists in here

As opposed to you nazis?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 27 Jun 2007 10:18:39 AM
On Jun 26, 10:56 pm,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:

Let 'Em Eat Barbed Wire <traet...@guerrillamail.net> wrote:

On Jun 26, 10:50 am,

wrote:


Because he's using a US government definition of "poor",
involving income levels and use of public sources of
financial support. While there are many people who
are the sort of beg-in-the-streets, sleep-under-bridges
poor you're thinking of, "poor" as used by
the American government is a much broader label
than that.


--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet


Walt, what you have to remember is these socialists in here


As opposed to you nazis?

As per the wisdom of the immortal Godwin, as
interpreted by Usenet flamewar sages throughout
the ages, we win and you lose. ;-)
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
.


User: "Kate "

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 27 Jun 2007 12:29:02 AM
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:43:19 -0700, Let 'Em Eat Barbed Wire
<traethec@guerrillamail.net> wrote:

On Jun 26, 10:50 am,

wrote:

Because he's using a US government definition of "poor",
involving income levels and use of public sources of
financial support. While there are many people who
are the sort of beg-in-the-streets, sleep-under-bridges
poor you're thinking of, "poor" as used by
the American government is a much broader label
than that.

--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet


Walt, what you have to remember is these socialists in here have a
vested interest in swelling the ranks of the poor, whether
artificially with cooked statistics or in actual fact. The more people
that are dependent on the "gubmint," the more political power they
have.

Yeah, why bother enabling them to work their way of their problems, if
they will die on their own?
You are just drinking the republican kool aid. Naivity can be
charming, but not in an old stupid man who should know better.
Try actually learning how aid works and why. Why 3 year olds can't
just go to work at mc donalds and why people who are in nursing homes
can't either.
.


User: "Robert"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 06:26:06 PM
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:50:53 -0700,
wrote:

On Jun 26, 1:20 pm,

(Ray Fischer) wrote:

David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:

It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?


Because he's using a US government definition of "poor",
involving income levels and use of public sources of
financial support. While there are many people who
are the sort of beg-in-the-streets, sleep-under-bridges
poor you're thinking of, "poor" as used by
the American government is a much broader label
than that.

Almost all of them have a variety of medical/mental problems. I once
spent many hours working to help those unfortunate people.
Drug/alcohol addiction and mental illness are rampant with them
refusing to take med's. The alcoholic, smokers, drug user will not go
to a shelter or rehab.
Reality check, you can't force them out of their problems. Solution
don't give the pan handlers any money. When they get hungry enough
they will go to a shelter. Or have a shelter where they can smoke
drink or shoot up.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Robert"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 06:09:10 PM
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:50:53 -0700,
wrote:

On Jun 26, 1:20 pm,

(Ray Fischer) wrote:

David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:

It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


Why do you believe that most of the poor people in the US have cable
TV and A/C?


Because he's using a US government definition of "poor",
involving income levels and use of public sources of
financial support. While there are many people who
are the sort of beg-in-the-streets, sleep-under-bridges
poor you're thinking of, "poor" as used by
the American government is a much broader label
than that.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.



User: "james g. keegan jr."

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 25 Jun 2007 08:27:21 PM
In article <1182820110.750543.143850@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:

It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?

you've apparently never looked under a bridge or visited a shelter,
have you?
--
get real. like jesus would ever own a gun or vote republican.
.
User: "Pavil Natanovich"

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 05 Jul 2007 03:16:54 PM
On Jun 25, 6:27 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:

In article <1182820110.750543.143...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:


It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


you've apparently never looked under a bridge or visited a shelter,
have you?

There are poor people who have cable TV and air conditioning. I don't
know of any charities that pay for such things, however. Charities
tend to focus on food, shelter, and clothing, for women and children,
then men.
The folks living under bridges don't enjoy welfare financed services
of any kind.

get real. like jesus would ever own a gun or vote republican.

:)
.

User: ""

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 12:53:49 PM
On Jun 25, 9:27 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:

In article <1182820110.750543.143...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:


It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


you've apparently never looked under a bridge or visited a shelter,
have you?

You may want to ponder the difference between
the words "many" and "most". There are 'many'
people living in what you'd consider complete poverty.
That doesn't say anything at all about the situation
of 'most' people who meet the definition of "poor".
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
.
User: "james g. keegan jr."

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 01:07:38 PM
In article <1182880429.894979.219780@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:

On Jun 25, 9:27 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:

In article <1182820110.750543.143...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:

Kate wrote:


It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


you've apparently never looked under a bridge or visited a shelter,
have you?


You may want to ponder the difference between
the words "many" and "most". There are 'many'
people living in what you'd consider complete poverty.
That doesn't say anything at all about the situation
of 'most' people who meet the definition of "poor".

you're wrong. that's why i commented. perhaps the difference in the
words is something you are struggling with?
--
get real. like jesus would ever own a gun or vote republican.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 01:13:09 PM
On Jun 26, 2:07 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:

In article <1182880429.894979.219...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,





firelock...@hotmail.com wrote:

On Jun 25, 9:27 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:

In article <1182820110.750543.143...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:


Kate wrote:


It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


you've apparently never looked under a bridge or visited a shelter,
have you?


You may want to ponder the difference between
the words "many" and "most". There are 'many'
people living in what you'd consider complete poverty.
That doesn't say anything at all about the situation
of 'most' people who meet the definition of "poor".


you're wrong. that's why i commented. perhaps the difference in the
words is something you are struggling with?

I'm simply noting that you encountering homeless
people under bridges doesn't have anything to do
with David's point, unless you've got some evidence
that you've encountered most of the poor people in
this fashion.
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
.
User: "james g. keegan jr."

Title: Re: More Proof that Liberals are Natural Thieves and Stingy as Hell 26 Jun 2007 06:12:10 PM
In article <1182881589.753939.80820@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:

On Jun 26, 2:07 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:

In article <1182880429.894979.219...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
firelock...@hotmail.com wrote:

On Jun 25, 9:27 pm, "james g. keegan jr." <jgkee...@gmail.com> wrote:

In article <1182820110.750543.143...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:


Kate wrote:


It's already been proven that charities don't work. That's why we
created Social Security and Welfare. If they had worked, we would
not
have even felt the need to.


Do you really think that it's thanks to Social Security and Welfare
that most of the poor people in the United States have cable
television and air conditioning?


you've apparently never looked under a bridge or visited a shelter,
have you?


You may want to ponder the difference between
the words "many" and "most". There are 'many'
people living in what you'd consider complete poverty.
That doesn't say anything at all about the situation
of 'most' people who meet the definition of "poor".


you're wrong. that's why i commented. perhaps the difference in the
words is something you are struggling with?


I'm simply noting that you encountering homeless
people under bridges doesn't have anything to do
with David's point,

david didn't have a point; just an unsupported prejudice.
--
get real. like jesus would ever own a gun or vote republican.
.








  Page 1 of 2

1

 

2

 


Related Articles
Re: Poll Shows 51% of Women Are Pro-Lifers
Re: Why is birth a determinant if conception, implantation are not?
'Veterans feel the sting of Bush's overtime pay cut -- are you next?'
"Riske" Provides SOLID EVIDENCE that Homophobes are **very** Mentally-Challenged.
Anti choicers are liars!
Another Conservative Jumping Off of Bush's Sinking Ship Part XIII (re: Why Are NeoCons So Imcompetent?)
Are we going to have a rigged election?
Are Dem's so desperate to win that they would forge memo's?
Women's rights are men's duties.
:: :: :: :: *post 1007* - DO YOU WANT TO KNOW FOR SURE YOU ARE GOING TO HEAVEN? :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
(",) Do You Want To Know For Sure You Are Going To Heaven?
Do You Want To Know For Sure That You Are Going To Heaven? The reason some people don't know for sure if they are going to Heaven when they die is because they just don't know. The good news is that you can know for sure that you are going to Heaven
How come Evangelical Miers and Evangelical Hecht are having sex without marriage?
Re: Why are Americans scared of Hilary Clinton?
Re: Jews are GOD' Prophet Killers & Baby Killers!
 

NEWER

pg.716     pg.544     pg.412     pg.311     pg.234     pg.175     pg.130     pg.96     pg.70     pg.50     pg.35     pg.24     pg.16     pg.10     pg.6     pg.3     pg.1

OLDER