| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"David W. Barnes" |
| Date: |
03 Oct 2006 10:17:38 AM |
| Object: |
More Religious "pro-life" |
PARADISE, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Police on Tuesday were trying to
determine what happened 20 years ago to spur Charles Carl Roberts IV to
barricade himself inside an Amish schoolhouse, kill five girls and
wound six others, before killing himself.
Two of the girls died overnight from gunshot wounds suffered in
Monday's assault by the 32-year-old truck driver on students at the
tiny farmland school in southeastern Pennsylvania.
Investigators said Roberts told his wife before he killed himself "that
he was acting out to achieve revenge for something that happened 20
years ago." Notes left by the gunman indicated he was "angry at life"
and "angry at God."
<http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/03/amish.shooting/index.html>
God works in mysterious ways.
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| User: "Don Homuth" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 10:58:50 AM |
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On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:17:38 GMT, "David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com>
wrote:
PARADISE, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Police on Tuesday were trying to
determine what happened 20 years ago to spur Charles Carl Roberts IV to
barricade himself inside an Amish schoolhouse, kill five girls and
wound six others, before killing himself.
That's an interesting question, and we may or may not ever figure it
out.
The greater and more interesting question, though, is why there is a
seemingly growing predisposition to a bunch of folks who are cheesed
off about something to figure that the appropriate resolution is to
kill others, then themselves.
Figure *that* one one, and we're onto something useful.
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| User: "Chris Assaf is going to be a father soon!!!" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 04:58:10 PM |
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Don Homuth wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:17:38 GMT, "David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com>
wrote:
PARADISE, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Police on Tuesday were trying to
determine what happened 20 years ago to spur Charles Carl Roberts IV to
barricade himself inside an Amish schoolhouse, kill five girls and
wound six others, before killing himself.
That's an interesting question, and we may or may not ever figure it
out.
The greater and more interesting question, though, is why there is a
seemingly growing predisposition to a bunch of folks who are cheesed
off about something to figure that the appropriate resolution is to
kill others, then themselves.
Figure *that* one one, and we're onto something useful.
The killer told his wife that he had molested a relative two decades
ago.
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| User: "Ockhams Razor" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 11:14:48 AM |
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In article <m325i2p0nv55p09k3edreqr088ne9nk9c9@4ax.com>,
Don Homuth <dhomuth1@comcast.net> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:17:38 GMT, "David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com>
wrote:
PARADISE, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Police on Tuesday were trying to
determine what happened 20 years ago to spur Charles Carl Roberts IV to
barricade himself inside an Amish schoolhouse, kill five girls and
wound six others, before killing himself.
That's an interesting question, and we may or may not ever figure it
out.
The greater and more interesting question, though, is why there is a
seemingly growing predisposition to a bunch of folks who are cheesed
off about something to figure that the appropriate resolution is to
kill others, then themselves.
Figure *that* one one, and we're onto something useful.
You can add, why schools?
--
There are two ways to spell Ockham/Occam. Britannica prefers the former.
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| User: "Don Homuth" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 11:54:48 AM |
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On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:14:48 -0700, Ockham's Razor <Mencken@pdx.net>
wrote:
In article <m325i2p0nv55p09k3edreqr088ne9nk9c9@4ax.com>,
Don Homuth <dhomuth1@comcast.net> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:17:38 GMT, "David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com>
wrote:
PARADISE, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Police on Tuesday were trying to
determine what happened 20 years ago to spur Charles Carl Roberts IV to
barricade himself inside an Amish schoolhouse, kill five girls and
wound six others, before killing himself.
That's an interesting question, and we may or may not ever figure it
out.
The greater and more interesting question, though, is why there is a
seemingly growing predisposition to a bunch of folks who are cheesed
off about something to figure that the appropriate resolution is to
kill others, then themselves.
Figure *that* one one, and we're onto something useful.
You can add, why schools?
For that one, there may well be an answer or sorts.
For that period of at least twelve developing years, schools have
become The dominant institution for children. If something socially
traumatic happens to them, chances are statistically -- just based on
time - that it will happen at or via the school environment.
Some time back -- at least thirty years anyway -- I ran across a study
of folks who had reason to enter school buildingsas adults for various
purposes. It had been done, if memory serves, by some graduate
stoonts at Michigan State. (My first graduate advisor put me on to it
when I was going through his program.)
It inquired of those adults -- usually in their 20's through 40's --
what they were experiencing on re-entering school buildings. Clearly
the experience was evocative of past memories (which would have dated
from the 40's and 50's, mostly) of their emotional state while in
school as children.
The results were not terribly positive. Adults remembered schools not
for the enjoyment of the experience (well, mostly) but for the various
sorts of emotional traumas they experienced -- mostly at the hands of
their peers.
They could recall their teachers well enough, the good ones and the
bad ones.
But the negative reactions were sharply skewed to interactions with
the other children in the environments. Males tended most to remember
the school bully. Females tended to remember their social
interactions with "popular" girls and social cliques.
It made interesting reading, even in manuscript form. I have no idea
whatever happened to it. It's probably out there, somewhere.
But echoes of it keep coming up in these recent school-related
incidents, even now and then.
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| User: "Lobby Dosser" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 12:38:04 PM |
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Don Homuth <dhomuth1@comcast.net> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 09:14:48 -0700, Ockham's Razor <Mencken@pdx.net>
wrote:
In article <m325i2p0nv55p09k3edreqr088ne9nk9c9@4ax.com>,
Don Homuth <dhomuth1@comcast.net> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:17:38 GMT, "David W. Barnes"
<dbarnes@aol.com> wrote:
PARADISE, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Police on Tuesday were trying to
determine what happened 20 years ago to spur Charles Carl Roberts
IV to barricade himself inside an Amish schoolhouse, kill five
girls and wound six others, before killing himself.
That's an interesting question, and we may or may not ever figure it
out.
The greater and more interesting question, though, is why there is a
seemingly growing predisposition to a bunch of folks who are cheesed
off about something to figure that the appropriate resolution is to
kill others, then themselves.
Figure *that* one one, and we're onto something useful.
You can add, why schools?
For that one, there may well be an answer or sorts.
For that period of at least twelve developing years, schools have
become The dominant institution for children. If something socially
traumatic happens to them, chances are statistically -- just based on
time - that it will happen at or via the school environment.
Some time back -- at least thirty years anyway -- I ran across a study
of folks who had reason to enter school buildingsas adults for various
purposes. It had been done, if memory serves, by some graduate
stoonts at Michigan State. (My first graduate advisor put me on to it
when I was going through his program.)
It inquired of those adults -- usually in their 20's through 40's --
what they were experiencing on re-entering school buildings. Clearly
the experience was evocative of past memories (which would have dated
from the 40's and 50's, mostly) of their emotional state while in
school as children.
The results were not terribly positive. Adults remembered schools not
for the enjoyment of the experience (well, mostly) but for the various
sorts of emotional traumas they experienced -- mostly at the hands of
their peers.
They could recall their teachers well enough, the good ones and the
bad ones.
But the negative reactions were sharply skewed to interactions with
the other children in the environments. Males tended most to remember
the school bully. Females tended to remember their social
interactions with "popular" girls and social cliques.
It made interesting reading, even in manuscript form. I have no idea
whatever happened to it. It's probably out there, somewhere.
But echoes of it keep coming up in these recent school-related
incidents, even now and then.
It probably explains why children shoot up schools. I doubt it explains
why adults shoot up schools.
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| User: "Don Homuth" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 01:13:56 PM |
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On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:38:04 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
Don Homuth <dhomuth1@comcast.net> wrote:
But echoes of it keep coming up in these recent school-related
incidents, even now and then.
It probably explains why children shoot up schools. I doubt it explains
why adults shoot up schools.
Adults tend, if the research was correct, to regress to an earlier
emotional state even when just entering a school building.
Such things are open for considerable discussion, as I suggested.
There is no One Size Fits All explanation for all such conduct. But
on a regression analysis, that would reasonably be part of it.
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| User: "Lobby Dosser" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 02:27:48 PM |
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Don Homuth <dhomuth1@comcast.net> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:38:04 GMT, Lobby Dosser
<lobby.dosser.mapson@verizon.net> wrote:
Don Homuth <dhomuth1@comcast.net> wrote:
But echoes of it keep coming up in these recent school-related
incidents, even now and then.
It probably explains why children shoot up schools. I doubt it
explains why adults shoot up schools.
Adults tend, if the research was correct, to regress to an earlier
emotional state even when just entering a school building.
Such things are open for considerable discussion, as I suggested.
There is no One Size Fits All explanation for all such conduct. But
on a regression analysis, that would reasonably be part of it.
The adults are not IN a school building when they arm themselves.
The children who arm themselves are, well, children - who are in the
midst of all the emotional trauma in or out of the school building.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 09:08:10 PM |
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In article <m325i2p0nv55p09k3edreqr088ne9nk9c9@4ax.com>, Don Homuth
<dhomuth1@comcast.net> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:17:38 GMT, "David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com>
wrote:
PARADISE, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Police on Tuesday were trying to
determine what happened 20 years ago to spur Charles Carl Roberts IV to
barricade himself inside an Amish schoolhouse, kill five girls and
wound six others, before killing himself.
That's an interesting question, and we may or may not ever figure it
out.
The greater and more interesting question, though, is why there is a
seemingly growing predisposition to a bunch of folks who are cheesed
off about something to figure that the appropriate resolution is to
kill others, then themselves.
Figure *that* one one, and we're onto something useful.
Hate runs deep. These people are unstable. We can't expect them to be
logical. Maybe the next one will try to do it in reverse order.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 11:37:13 AM |
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In article <m325i2p0nv55p09k3edreqr088ne9nk9c9@4ax.com>, Don Homuth
<dhomuth1@comcast.net> wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 15:17:38 GMT, "David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com>
wrote:
PARADISE, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Police on Tuesday were trying to
determine what happened 20 years ago to spur Charles Carl Roberts IV to
barricade himself inside an Amish schoolhouse, kill five girls and
wound six others, before killing himself.
That's an interesting question, and we may or may not ever figure it
out.
The greater and more interesting question, though, is why there is a
seemingly growing predisposition to a bunch of folks who are cheesed
off about something to figure that the appropriate resolution is to
kill others, then themselves.
Figure *that* one one, and we're onto something useful.
Hear, hear.
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| User: "John D. Wentzky" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 11:40:22 AM |
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Where do you see any mention of religious or pro-life in this story?
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| User: "Newk Indofman" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 01:22:49 PM |
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"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:QnwUg.40300$KR1.7451@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Where do you see any mention of religious or pro-life in this story?
Yesterday, the shooter was reported by national news outlets to be a
"church-going man", and a family man who had dropped his kids off at the bus
stop prior to the murders.
Then on the CBS national news' "Free Speech" segment last evening, the
father of one of the Columbine victims spoke his mind. Do you think he might
mention gun control issues or something along those lines. No, he went off
on a vague tirade about "morality", and specified "abortion" as the main
culprit. It was spooky -- he appeared to me to be next in line for a
murderous rampage.
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| User: "John D. Wentzky" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 02:56:03 PM |
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"Newk Indofman" <With@FullVoice.org> wrote in message
news:ZTxUg.108$gU6.8@tornado.socal.rr.com...
"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:QnwUg.40300$KR1.7451@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Where do you see any mention of religious or pro-life in this story?
Yesterday, the shooter was reported by national news outlets to be a
"church-going man", and a family man who had dropped his kids off at the
bus stop prior to the murders.
Then on the CBS national news' "Free Speech" segment last evening, the
father of one of the Columbine victims spoke his mind. Do you think he
might mention gun control issues or something along those lines. No, he
went off on a vague tirade about "morality", and specified "abortion" as
the main culprit. It was spooky -- he appeared to me to be next in line
for a murderous rampage.
Why would anyone mention gun control when the Constitution guarantees the
right to bear arms?
Why would you also think that First Amendment Freedoms are suspect when
someone says "abortion" is the main culprit?
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 09:08:11 PM |
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In article <gfzUg.45091$vX5.19668@bignews8.bellsouth.net>, John D.
Wentzky <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote:
"Newk Indofman" <With@FullVoice.org> wrote in message
news:ZTxUg.108$gU6.8@tornado.socal.rr.com...
"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:QnwUg.40300$KR1.7451@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Where do you see any mention of religious or pro-life in this story?
Yesterday, the shooter was reported by national news outlets to be a
"church-going man", and a family man who had dropped his kids off at the
bus stop prior to the murders.
Then on the CBS national news' "Free Speech" segment last evening, the
father of one of the Columbine victims spoke his mind. Do you think he
might mention gun control issues or something along those lines. No, he
went off on a vague tirade about "morality", and specified "abortion" as
the main culprit. It was spooky -- he appeared to me to be next in line
for a murderous rampage.
Why would anyone mention gun control when the Constitution guarantees the
right to bear arms?
Not really.
Why would you also think that First Amendment Freedoms are suspect when
someone says "abortion" is the main culprit?
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| User: "Lucifer" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 04:39:22 PM |
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John D. Wentzky wrote:
"Newk Indofman" <With@FullVoice.org> wrote in message
news:ZTxUg.108$gU6.8@tornado.socal.rr.com...
"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:QnwUg.40300$KR1.7451@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Where do you see any mention of religious or pro-life in this story?
Yesterday, the shooter was reported by national news outlets to be a
"church-going man", and a family man who had dropped his kids off at the
bus stop prior to the murders.
Then on the CBS national news' "Free Speech" segment last evening, the
father of one of the Columbine victims spoke his mind. Do you think he
might mention gun control issues or something along those lines. No, he
went off on a vague tirade about "morality", and specified "abortion" as
the main culprit. It was spooky -- he appeared to me to be next in line
for a murderous rampage.
Why would anyone mention gun control when the Constitution guarantees the
right to bear arms?
Why would you also think that First Amendment Freedoms are suspect when
someone says "abortion" is the main culprit?
Of course he has a right to say it's abortion's fault, but we have
every right to rip the ***** out of him for making such a truly
ridiculous claim.
As for gun control, no guns, no school shootings. It would work,
whether it's desirable or not is another issue, but I can see no
innocent reason for owning any kind of assault weapon, or, for that
matter, a sharp sword.
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 09:08:11 PM |
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In article <1159911562.590628.33340@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Lucifer <wyrdology@hotmail.com> wrote:
John D. Wentzky wrote:
"Newk Indofman" <With@FullVoice.org> wrote in message
news:ZTxUg.108$gU6.8@tornado.socal.rr.com...
"John D. Wentzky" <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote in message
news:QnwUg.40300$KR1.7451@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Where do you see any mention of religious or pro-life in this story?
Yesterday, the shooter was reported by national news outlets to be a
"church-going man", and a family man who had dropped his kids off at the
bus stop prior to the murders.
Then on the CBS national news' "Free Speech" segment last evening, the
father of one of the Columbine victims spoke his mind. Do you think he
might mention gun control issues or something along those lines. No, he
went off on a vague tirade about "morality", and specified "abortion" as
the main culprit. It was spooky -- he appeared to me to be next in line
for a murderous rampage.
Why would anyone mention gun control when the Constitution guarantees the
right to bear arms?
Why would you also think that First Amendment Freedoms are suspect when
someone says "abortion" is the main culprit?
Of course he has a right to say it's abortion's fault, but we have
every right to rip the ***** out of him for making such a truly
ridiculous claim.
As for gun control, no guns, no school shootings. It would work,
whether it's desirable or not is another issue, but I can see no
innocent reason for owning any kind of assault weapon, or, for that
matter, a sharp sword.
Agreed. Now all the gun nuts will be after us.
.
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| User: "Don Homuth" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 04:37:31 PM |
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On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:56:03 -0400, "John D. Wentzky"
<johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote:
Why would anyone mention gun control when the Constitution guarantees the
right to bear arms?...
Because it's not absolute, perhaps?
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: More Religious "pro-life" |
03 Oct 2006 09:20:26 PM |
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John D. Wentzky <johndwentzky@alumni.furman.edu> wrote:
Where do you see any mention of religious or pro-life in this story?
Why do you keep asking stupid questions?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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