| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Steenkin Man" |
| Date: |
28 Jun 2004 03:04:18 PM |
| Object: |
Now it's on the BBC site |
Scans uncover secrets of the womb
A new type of ultrasound scan has produced the vivid pictures of a 12
week-old foetus "walking" in the womb.
The new images also show foetuses apparently yawning and rubbing its
eyes.
The scans, pioneered by Professor Stuart Campbell at London's Create
Health Clinic, are much more detailed than conventional ultrasound.
Professor Campbell has previously released images of unborn babies
appearing to smile.
He has compiled a book of the images called Watch Me Grow.
Conventional ultrasound, usually offered to mothers at 12 and 20
weeks, produces 2D images of the developing foetus.
These are very useful for helping doctors to measure and assess the
growth of the foetus, but convey very little information about
behaviour.
Complex behaviour
Professor Campbell has perfected a technique which not only produces
detailed 3D images, but records foetal movement in real time.
He says his work has been able to show for the first time that the
unborn baby engages in complex behaviour from an early stage of its
development.
Professor Campbell told the BBC: "This is a new science for
understanding and mapping out the behaviour of the baby.
"Maybe in the future it will help us understand and diagnose genetic
disease, maybe even conditions like cerebral palsy which puzzles the
medical profession as to why it occurs."
The images have shown:
From 12 weeks, unborn babies can stretch, kick and leap around
the womb - well before the mother can feel movement
From 18 weeks, they can open their eyes although most doctors
thought eyelids were fused until 26 weeks
From 26 weeks, they appear to exhibit a whole range of typical
baby behaviour and moods, including scratching, smiling,
crying, hiccoughing, and sucking.
Until recently it was thought that smiling did not start until
six weeks after birth.
An hour long session using the new technology, which is not yet
available on the NHS, costs 275 pounds.
Full story with pictures:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3846525.stm
--
num tibi mentireris?
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
10 Jul 2004 11:53:20 AM |
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Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccij81$llm$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
LOL! Is there something WRONG with forcing innocent people to support
children they didn't want and didn't give birth to?
Is there something wrong with forcing childless couples and single people
to
support the education of anothers children through ever increasing taxes,
Atne' you demanding that women provide the use of their bodies and
suffer pain and injury in order to keep fetuses alive?
I am demanding no such thing -
Then you're pro-choice and she may end her pregnancy when she wishes.
- the women involved 'provided' (outside of
rape) their bodies willingly in activities that caused them to become
pregnant - the consequences of these 'activities' are known in advance by
all but the most ignorant.
Abortion is a consequence of sex.
The fetus's in most cases will be kept alive
quite naturally unless of course the mother meets a life hating piece of
scum like yourself that treats a 'pregnancy' like it was some sort of
The usual screeching hatred.
Pretty hypocritical of you to whine that you're expected to contribute
to the society you live in.
Oh ***** Ray -
Impressive argument.
being disingenuous
Smarter than you, in other words.
is a 'skill' that you have honed and
practiced for a LONG time on usenet
I've learned something.
Try it, sometime.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "EvilZak" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 09:26:29 AM |
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"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2ko6grF4imftU1@uni-berlin.de>...
"Flower Power" <FreeWomen@thisNG.today> wrote in message
news:GvCdnWDpodt2o3vdRVn-gg@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kl08kF3jkl3U1@uni-berlin.de...
Also unlike you I am not actually encouraging women to KILL their unborn
for
trivial reasons.
========================
No one encourages them to abort. What we're against are those who coerce
women to have children against their will.
Women are adult girls and as adults they have a duty to be responsible for
their actions.
Yes. Which doesn't include obeying fuckwits like you. It's perfectly
responsible to choose abortion when one does not want or feel capable
of continuing a pregnancy. WHat is irresponsible is people peddling
their stupid superstitions as a way of forcing others to act in ways
the superstitious approve of.
(oh, and for the hard-of-=thinking, superstition=religion. All
religions are idiotic superstition.)
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 06:47:59 PM |
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"EvilZak" <zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1e57ec88.0407050626.6ad7f1f7@posting.google.com...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2ko6grF4imftU1@uni-berlin.de>...
"Flower Power" <FreeWomen@thisNG.today> wrote in message
news:GvCdnWDpodt2o3vdRVn-gg@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kl08kF3jkl3U1@uni-berlin.de...
Also unlike you I am not actually encouraging women to KILL their
unborn
for
trivial reasons.
========================
No one encourages them to abort. What we're against are those who
coerce
women to have children against their will.
Women are adult girls and as adults they have a duty to be responsible
for
their actions.
Yes.
Good that's a start.
Which doesn't include obeying fuckwits like you.
You just managed to combine a strawman argument and an ad hominem in a short
seven word sentence - give yourself a pat on the back.
It's perfectly
responsible to choose abortion when one does not want or feel capable
of continuing a pregnancy.
Your opinion of what being 'perfectly responsible' entails leaves a lot to
be desired - especially when anothers life that could be adversely affected
by such an excercise is not even considered.
WHat is irresponsible is people peddling
their stupid superstitions
What you described as 'superstitions' is in fact taken from my own personal
EXPERIENCE.
as a way of forcing others to act in ways
the superstitious approve of.
It is clear to me that in fundemental respects you are profoundly ignorant
of LIFE.
As for 'religions' - I don't follow them - they are only signposts and not
the thing signed to.
Phil
(oh, and for the hard-of-=thinking, superstition=religion. All
religions are idiotic superstition.)
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 01:22:11 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cc9esa$ud6$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Flower Power <FreeWomen@thisNG.com> wrote:
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
"Flower Power" <FreeWomen@thisNG.today> wrote in message
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Also unlike you I am not actually encouraging women to KILL their
unborn
for
trivial reasons.
========================
No one encourages them to abort. What we're against are those who
coerce
women to have children against their will.
Women are adult girls and as adults they have a duty to be responsible
for
their actions.
Why? because YOU say so? Why should they suffer and PAY to please
people
like you who don't mean a thing to them and don't pay their bills.
Yeah! Why SHOULD men suffer and pay to please people like you?
-==============
Why should WE, society, pay higher taxes to support the unwanted kids men
father? Are you saying it's fair for society to support all these kids men
abandon? Why should WE pay for some man's sexual dalliance?
--
FPower.......
But look what your Jehovah god said in his bible:
Psalm 137:9
"Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the
stones." (Infanticide approved by god)
======================================
You still haven't told us how YOU plan to enforce monthly pregnancy tests on
all women and where and how you will confine them for the 9 months.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 05:35:16 AM |
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"Flower Power" <IndependantWomen@This.net> wrote in message
news:coydndLUmOUKbnXdRVn-hg@heartoftn.net...
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cc9esa$ud6$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Flower Power <FreeWomen@thisNG.com> wrote:
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
"Flower Power" <FreeWomen@thisNG.today> wrote in message
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Also unlike you I am not actually encouraging women to KILL their
unborn
for
trivial reasons.
========================
No one encourages them to abort. What we're against are those who
coerce
women to have children against their will.
Women are adult girls and as adults they have a duty to be
responsible
for
their actions.
Why? because YOU say so? Why should they suffer and PAY to please
people
like you who don't mean a thing to them and don't pay their bills.
Yeah! Why SHOULD men suffer and pay to please people like you?
-==============
Why should WE, society, pay higher taxes to support the unwanted kids men
father?
So you DO regard women as unresponsible children - remember men cannot get
pregnant - women can - fact!
Are you saying it's fair for society to support all these kids men
abandon? Why should WE pay for some man's sexual dalliance?
Once more you confirm that you regard women as unresponsible children and
incapable of taking responsibility for their actions.
Phil
--
FPower.......
But look what your Jehovah god said in his bible:
Psalm 137:9
"Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the
stones." (Infanticide approved by god)
======================================
You still haven't told us how YOU plan to enforce monthly pregnancy tests
on
all women and where and how you will confine them for the 9 months.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 12:52:40 PM |
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Flower Power <IndependantWomen@This.net> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Yeah! Why SHOULD men suffer and pay to please people like you?
Why should WE, society, pay higher taxes to support the unwanted kids men
father?
Because it's not a man's choice.
Are you saying it's fair for society to support all these kids men
abandon?
You really are a sexist bigot. You blame men for woman's actions.
Why should WE pay for some man's sexual dalliance?
The usual anti-sex prudery. You want to punish people who have sex.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 02:50:01 PM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in news:ccc4h7$nsn$1
@bolt.sonic.net:
Flower Power <IndependantWomen@This.net> wrote:
Why should WE, society, pay higher taxes to support the unwanted kids men
father?
Because it's not a man's choice.
are you referring to the men who were raped?
did they have sex with the mother against theri will?
Are you saying it's fair for society to support all these kids men
abandon?
You really are a sexist bigot. You blame men for woman's actions.
i haven't seen any post where FP did that. can you repost such an article?
.
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| User: "EvilZak" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
02 Jul 2004 02:27:14 PM |
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"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2kl08kF3jkl3U1@uni-berlin.de>...
Human reproduction needs no 'control' for it to happen
Tell that to any doctor specialising in the treatment of infertility,
moron. Or, indeed, any individual/couple undergoing such treatment.
The total ignorance of biology, let alone social reality, displayed by
anti-choicers is really remarkable.
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
03 Jul 2004 11:50:17 AM |
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"EvilZak" <zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1e57ec88.0407021127.1874cea4@posting.google.com...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2kl08kF3jkl3U1@uni-berlin.de>...
Human reproduction needs no 'control' for it to happen
Tell that to any doctor specialising in the treatment of infertility,
moron. Or, indeed, any individual/couple undergoing such treatment.
The total ignorance of biology, let alone social reality, displayed by
anti-choicers is really remarkable.
As I said human reproduction NEEDS no control for it to happen. Infertility
treatments are interventionist measures probably made more 'popular' by
other interventionist measures humans have made to the natural environment.
Abortion OTH is ALL about control.
'Social reality' is something largely within our control as a society if we
go about killing unborn babies for trivial reasons then such 'social
reality' is nothing to laud or shout about.
Phil
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| User: "EvilZak" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 09:23:35 AM |
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"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2ko6ecF4jpbuU1@uni-berlin.de>...
"EvilZak" <zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1e57ec88.0407021127.1874cea4@posting.google.com...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2kl08kF3jkl3U1@uni-berlin.de>...
Human reproduction needs no 'control' for it to happen
Tell that to any doctor specialising in the treatment of infertility,
moron. Or, indeed, any individual/couple undergoing such treatment.
The total ignorance of biology, let alone social reality, displayed by
anti-choicers is really remarkable.
As I said human reproduction NEEDS no control for it to happen. Infertility
treatments are interventionist measures probably made more 'popular' by
other interventionist measures humans have made to the natural environment.
Abortion OTH is ALL about control.
'Social reality' is something largely within our control as a society if we
go about killing unborn babies for trivial reasons then such 'social
reality' is nothing to laud or shout about.
Now you're just posting rubbish: like all anti-choice idiots you are
really only interested in dismissing women's wishes, denying their
rights and redefining them as less than human, less important than
your witless and ill-informed opinions.
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 06:37:39 PM |
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"EvilZak" <zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1e57ec88.0407050623.103ab2dc@posting.google.com...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2ko6ecF4jpbuU1@uni-berlin.de>...
"EvilZak" <zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1e57ec88.0407021127.1874cea4@posting.google.com...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2kl08kF3jkl3U1@uni-berlin.de>...
Human reproduction needs no 'control' for it to happen
Tell that to any doctor specialising in the treatment of infertility,
moron. Or, indeed, any individual/couple undergoing such treatment.
The total ignorance of biology, let alone social reality, displayed by
anti-choicers is really remarkable.
As I said human reproduction NEEDS no control for it to happen.
Infertility
treatments are interventionist measures probably made more 'popular' by
other interventionist measures humans have made to the natural
environment.
Abortion OTH is ALL about control.
'Social reality' is something largely within our control as a society if
we
go about killing unborn babies for trivial reasons then such 'social
reality' is nothing to laud or shout about.
Now you're just posting rubbish:
Nope.
like all anti-choice idiots you are
really only interested in dismissing women's wishes, denying their
rights and redefining them as less than human, less important than
your witless and ill-informed opinions.
If those twisted thoughts give you some comfort - then by all means take
solace in delusion.
Phil
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 04:29:38 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cc6rvp$plq$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"EvilZak" <zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1e57ec88.0407021127.1874cea4@posting.google.com...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2kl08kF3jkl3U1@uni-berlin.de>...
Human reproduction needs no 'control' for it to happen
Tell that to any doctor specialising in the treatment of infertility,
moron. Or, indeed, any individual/couple undergoing such treatment.
The total ignorance of biology, let alone social reality, displayed by
anti-choicers is really remarkable.
As I said human reproduction NEEDS no control for it to happen.
Which demonstrates why your wish to control people is so immoral and
unecessary.
Nope as abortion IS exercising control and the immorality is all yours Ray.
Phil
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 12:49:31 PM |
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Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"EvilZak" <zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Human reproduction needs no 'control' for it to happen
Tell that to any doctor specialising in the treatment of infertility,
moron. Or, indeed, any individual/couple undergoing such treatment.
The total ignorance of biology, let alone social reality, displayed by
anti-choicers is really remarkable.
As I said human reproduction NEEDS no control for it to happen.
Which demonstrates why your wish to control people is so immoral and
unecessary.
Nope as abortion IS exercising control
The right to control what happens with your own body is fundamental
in western law, and the right of self-defense is universal.
Your perverse need to subjugate women is unjustifiable.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 05:14:42 PM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccc4bb$nfq$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"EvilZak" <zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Human reproduction needs no 'control' for it to happen
Tell that to any doctor specialising in the treatment of
infertility,
moron. Or, indeed, any individual/couple undergoing such treatment.
The total ignorance of biology, let alone social reality, displayed
by
anti-choicers is really remarkable.
As I said human reproduction NEEDS no control for it to happen.
Which demonstrates why your wish to control people is so immoral and
unecessary.
Nope as abortion IS exercising control
The right to control what happens with your own body is fundamental
in western law, and the right of self-defense is universal.
Yep and you can only get away with that completely disingenuous crap because
generally speaking the unborn baby or fetus doesn't have rights....yet!
It must surely ***** you though that in certain states of the US fetuses are
now regarded as PERSONS and high time too!!
Phil
Your perverse need to subjugate women is unjustifiable.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 05:33:37 PM |
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Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
As I said human reproduction NEEDS no control for it to happen.
Which demonstrates why your wish to control people is so immoral and
unecessary.
Nope as abortion IS exercising control
The right to control what happens with your own body is fundamental
in western law, and the right of self-defense is universal.
Yep and you can only get away with that completely disingenuous crap
Liberty is "completely disingenuous crap".
because
generally speaking the unborn baby or fetus doesn't have rights....yet!
Nobody and nothing has any right to occupy a person's body and cause
them harm.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
06 Jul 2004 06:26:54 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cccl00$bgt$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
As I said human reproduction NEEDS no control for it to happen.
Which demonstrates why your wish to control people is so immoral and
unecessary.
Nope as abortion IS exercising control
The right to control what happens with your own body is fundamental
in western law, and the right of self-defense is universal.
Yep and you can only get away with that completely disingenuous crap
Liberty is "completely disingenuous crap".
It is when it is applied without reference to the well being of others.
because
generally speaking the unborn baby or fetus doesn't have rights....yet!
Nobody and nothing has any right to occupy a person's body and cause
them harm.
Has your mother forgiven you?
Phil
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
06 Jul 2004 12:17:28 PM |
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Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
The right to control what happens with your own body is fundamental
in western law, and the right of self-defense is universal.
Yep and you can only get away with that completely disingenuous crap
Liberty is "completely disingenuous crap".
It is when it is applied without reference to the well being of others.
Obviously it is "completely disingenuous crap" when it affects you.
You should be free to let people die but pregnant women must be forced
to suffer.
Obviously you just hate women.
because
generally speaking the unborn baby or fetus doesn't have rights....yet!
Nobody and nothing has any right to occupy a person's body and cause
them harm.
Has your mother forgiven you?
Run away, pro-liar. You have no arguments.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
06 Jul 2004 06:05:38 PM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccemr7$gti$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
The right to control what happens with your own body is fundamental
in western law, and the right of self-defense is universal.
Yep and you can only get away with that completely disingenuous crap
Liberty is "completely disingenuous crap".
It is when it is applied without reference to the well being of others.
Obviously it is "completely disingenuous crap" when it affects you.
You should be free to let people die but pregnant women must be forced
to suffer.
Unless the pregnant woman was raped or extremely IGNORANT she is responsible
for her pregnancy as no one forced her to become pregnant.
Obviously you just hate women.
Do you love all women Ray - including those who share my opinions on
abortion?
For myself I take each PERSON (man or woman) as I find them - some people
you like - they 'gel' with you - others you don't it's the way it goes.
I will add however that I don't simply judge people by their 'political
beliefs' and opinions. People are more than just ideas and politics and for
that reason I do also have friends with a wide variation of opinions and
beliefs often at odds with my own. What I look for in people is just a sense
of decent basic 'humanity' - if that is there I don't care a fig about their
backgrounds whether they are rich, poor or royalty.
because
generally speaking the unborn baby or fetus doesn't have
rights....yet!
Nobody and nothing has any right to occupy a person's body and cause
them harm.
Has your mother forgiven you?
Run away, pro-liar. You have no arguments.
You haven't tested me yet. ;-o)
Phil
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
06 Jul 2004 10:03:34 PM |
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Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
The right to control what happens with your own body is fundamental
in western law, and the right of self-defense is universal.
Yep and you can only get away with that completely disingenuous crap
Liberty is "completely disingenuous crap".
It is when it is applied without reference to the well being of others.
Obviously it is "completely disingenuous crap" when it affects you.
You should be free to let people die but pregnant women must be forced
to suffer.
Unless the pregnant woman was raped or extremely IGNORANT she is responsible
for her pregnancy as no one forced her to become pregnant.
Ah, so we come to the inevitable argument that sex is a crime and
should be punished. She had sex so she must suffer.
You're just another hypocritical control freak.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
07 Jul 2004 02:56:07 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccfp65$id9$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
The right to control what happens with your own body is
fundamental
in western law, and the right of self-defense is universal.
Yep and you can only get away with that completely disingenuous
crap
Liberty is "completely disingenuous crap".
It is when it is applied without reference to the well being of
others.
Obviously it is "completely disingenuous crap" when it affects you.
You should be free to let people die but pregnant women must be forced
to suffer.
Unless the pregnant woman was raped or extremely IGNORANT she is
responsible
for her pregnancy as no one forced her to become pregnant.
Ah, so we come to the inevitable argument that sex is a crime
and
should be punished. She had sex so she must suffer.
Far better that the innocent party be KILLED who was NOT responsible for her
actions instead eh Ray?
Phil
You're just another hypocritical control freak.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
07 Jul 2004 11:38:11 PM |
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Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Ah, so we come to the inevitable argument that sex is a crime
and
should be punished. She had sex so she must suffer.
Far better that the innocent party be KILLED who was NOT responsible for her
actions instead eh Ray?
Unless she's pregnant, eh Phil?
Sex isn't a crime, prude.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
09 Jul 2004 05:56:36 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccij3i$lip$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Ah, so we come to the inevitable argument that sex is a crime
and
should be punished. She had sex so she must suffer.
Far better that the innocent party be KILLED who was NOT responsible for
her
actions instead eh Ray?
Unless she's pregnant, eh Phil?
Who is advocating the killing of pregnant women moron?
Sex isn't a crime, prude.
I am not objecting to sex.
Phil
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
10 Jul 2004 12:21:46 AM |
|
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Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Ah, so we come to the inevitable argument that sex is a crime
and
should be punished. She had sex so she must suffer.
Far better that the innocent party be KILLED who was NOT responsible for
her
actions instead eh Ray?
Unless she's pregnant, eh Phil?
Who is advocating the killing of pregnant women moron?
Abortion opponents.
Sex isn't a crime, prude.
I am not objecting to sex.
Yes you are. You try to argue that because she had sex she must
suffer.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
10 Jul 2004 05:34:11 AM |
|
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccnud9$gk4$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Ah, so we come to the inevitable argument that sex is a crime
and
should be punished. She had sex so she must suffer.
Far better that the innocent party be KILLED who was NOT responsible
for
her
actions instead eh Ray?
Unless she's pregnant, eh Phil?
Who is advocating the killing of pregnant women moron?
Abortion opponents.
Liar.
A grown up son (having emigrated to another land) with his new young familly
pays for his mother to come and visit him and see her grandchildren in his
new abode - the mother is tragically killed as the aircraft she was
travelling on crashed en route. To you the son 'killed' the mother - even
though she faced equal or greater dangers driving to work or crossing the
street.
Sex isn't a crime, prude.
I am not objecting to sex.
Yes you are.
Liar.
You try to argue that because she had sex she must
suffer.
Liar. All I am arguing is that sex has consequences - this is basic 'birds
and the bees' stuff and I like to assume that we are talking about adults
here and not children who run crying to 'mummy and daddy' every time they do
something stupid and are not prepared for the consequences.
Phil
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
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| User: "Bobs Boyfriend" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
10 Jul 2004 10:30:24 AM |
|
|
In article <2l9v17Fa5om0U1@uni-berlin.de>,
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccnud9$gk4$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Ah, so we come to the inevitable argument that sex is a crime
and
should be punished. She had sex so she must suffer.
Far better that the innocent party be KILLED who was NOT responsible
for
her
actions instead eh Ray?
Unless she's pregnant, eh Phil?
Who is advocating the killing of pregnant women moron?
Abortion opponents.
Liar.
A grown up son (having emigrated to another land) with his new young familly
pays for his mother to come and visit him and see her grandchildren in his
new abode - the mother is tragically killed as the aircraft she was
travelling on crashed en route. To you the son 'killed' the mother - even
though she faced equal or greater dangers driving to work or crossing the
street.
Sex isn't a crime, prude.
I am not objecting to sex.
Yes you are.
Liar.
You try to argue that because she had sex she must
suffer.
Liar. All I am arguing is that sex has consequences - this is basic 'birds
and the bees' stuff and I like to assume that we are talking about adults
here and not children who run crying to 'mummy and daddy' every time they do
something stupid and are not prepared for the consequences.
Handshaking has consequences. What's your point?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Philip Lewis" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
11 Jul 2004 02:45:16 AM |
|
|
"Bob's Boyfriend" <together@wyoming.com> wrote in message
news:together-B18097.11303210072004@nntp.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
In article <2l9v17Fa5om0U1@uni-berlin.de>,
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccnud9$gk4$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Ah, so we come to the inevitable argument that sex is a crime
and
should be punished. She had sex so she must suffer.
Far better that the innocent party be KILLED who was NOT
responsible
for
her
actions instead eh Ray?
Unless she's pregnant, eh Phil?
Who is advocating the killing of pregnant women moron?
Abortion opponents.
Liar.
A grown up son (having emigrated to another land) with his new young
familly
pays for his mother to come and visit him and see her grandchildren in
his
new abode - the mother is tragically killed as the aircraft she was
travelling on crashed en route. To you the son 'killed' the mother -
even
though she faced equal or greater dangers driving to work or crossing
the
street.
Sex isn't a crime, prude.
I am not objecting to sex.
Yes you are.
Liar.
You try to argue that because she had sex she must
suffer.
Liar. All I am arguing is that sex has consequences - this is basic
'birds
and the bees' stuff and I like to assume that we are talking about
adults
here and not children who run crying to 'mummy and daddy' every time
they do
something stupid and are not prepared for the consequences.
Handshaking has consequences. What's your point?
Women don't get pregnant by shaking hands - didn't your mummy tell you
that.?
Phil
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bobs Boyfriend" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
11 Jul 2004 03:30:09 AM |
|
|
In article <2lc9gfF9sovkU1@uni-berlin.de>,
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Bob's Boyfriend" <together@wyoming.com> wrote in message
news:together-B18097.11303210072004@nntp.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
In article <2l9v17Fa5om0U1@uni-berlin.de>,
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccnud9$gk4$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Ah, so we come to the inevitable argument that sex is a crime
and
should be punished. She had sex so she must suffer.
Far better that the innocent party be KILLED who was NOT
responsible
for
her
actions instead eh Ray?
Unless she's pregnant, eh Phil?
Who is advocating the killing of pregnant women moron?
Abortion opponents.
Liar.
A grown up son (having emigrated to another land) with his new young
familly
pays for his mother to come and visit him and see her grandchildren in
his
new abode - the mother is tragically killed as the aircraft she was
travelling on crashed en route. To you the son 'killed' the mother -
even
though she faced equal or greater dangers driving to work or crossing
the
street.
Sex isn't a crime, prude.
I am not objecting to sex.
Yes you are.
Liar.
You try to argue that because she had sex she must
suffer.
Liar. All I am arguing is that sex has consequences - this is basic
'birds
and the bees' stuff and I like to assume that we are talking about
adults
here and not children who run crying to 'mummy and daddy' every time
they do
something stupid and are not prepared for the consequences.
Handshaking has consequences. What's your point?
Women don't get pregnant by shaking hands - didn't your mummy tell you
that.?
Sex, like handshaking has outcomes. What is your point?
.
|
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|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
10 Jul 2004 11:50:57 AM |
|
|
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Ah, so we come to the inevitable argument that sex is a crime
and
should be punished. She had sex so she must suffer.
Far better that the innocent party be KILLED who was NOT responsible
for
her
actions instead eh Ray?
Unless she's pregnant, eh Phil?
Who is advocating the killing of pregnant women moron?
Abortion opponents.
Liar.
You demand laws which will kill women.
A grown up son (having emigrated to another land) with his new young familly
pays for his mother to come and visit him and see her grandchildren in his
blah blah
Sex isn't a crime, prude.
I am not objecting to sex.
Yes you are.
Liar.
You try to argue that because she had sex she must
suffer.
Liar. All I am arguing is that sex has consequences -
That's another way of saying that she must suffer if she has sex.
- this is basic 'birds
and the bees' stuff
Abortion is a consequence of sex, witless.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Philip Lewis" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
11 Jul 2004 02:47:51 AM |
|
|
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccp6pg$kbq$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Ah, so we come to the inevitable argument that sex is a crime
and
should be punished. She had sex so she must suffer.
Far better that the innocent party be KILLED who was NOT
responsible
for
her
actions instead eh Ray?
Unless she's pregnant, eh Phil?
Who is advocating the killing of pregnant women moron?
Abortion opponents.
Liar.
You demand laws which will kill women.
A grown up son (having emigrated to another land) with his new young
familly
pays for his mother to come and visit him and see her grandchildren in
his
blah blah
Sex isn't a crime, prude.
I am not objecting to sex.
Yes you are.
Liar.
You try to argue that because she had sex she must
suffer.
Liar. All I am arguing is that sex has consequences -
That's another way of saying that she must suffer if she has sex.
No it is not - if you really think that then you need a LOT of thereapy.
- this is basic 'birds
and the bees' stuff
Abortion is a consequence of sex, witless.
No it isn't - abortion is the consequence of artifical interference in the
natural process of pregnancy.
Phil
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
11 Jul 2004 03:19:44 PM |
|
|
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
You try to argue that because she had sex she must
suffer.
Liar. All I am arguing is that sex has consequences -
That's another way of saying that she must suffer if she has sex.
No it is not -
Then why do you keep using sex as a justification for punishiong women?
- this is basic 'birds
and the bees' stuff
Abortion is a consequence of sex, witless.
No it isn't -
Don't be stupid. Women who have abortions usually had sex previously.
- abortion is the consequence of artifical interference in the
natural process of pregnancy.
That's remarkbaly stupid of you given that you're using an articifial
means to communicate.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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