| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Steenkin Man" |
| Date: |
28 Jun 2004 03:04:18 PM |
| Object: |
Now it's on the BBC site |
Scans uncover secrets of the womb
A new type of ultrasound scan has produced the vivid pictures of a 12
week-old foetus "walking" in the womb.
The new images also show foetuses apparently yawning and rubbing its
eyes.
The scans, pioneered by Professor Stuart Campbell at London's Create
Health Clinic, are much more detailed than conventional ultrasound.
Professor Campbell has previously released images of unborn babies
appearing to smile.
He has compiled a book of the images called Watch Me Grow.
Conventional ultrasound, usually offered to mothers at 12 and 20
weeks, produces 2D images of the developing foetus.
These are very useful for helping doctors to measure and assess the
growth of the foetus, but convey very little information about
behaviour.
Complex behaviour
Professor Campbell has perfected a technique which not only produces
detailed 3D images, but records foetal movement in real time.
He says his work has been able to show for the first time that the
unborn baby engages in complex behaviour from an early stage of its
development.
Professor Campbell told the BBC: "This is a new science for
understanding and mapping out the behaviour of the baby.
"Maybe in the future it will help us understand and diagnose genetic
disease, maybe even conditions like cerebral palsy which puzzles the
medical profession as to why it occurs."
The images have shown:
From 12 weeks, unborn babies can stretch, kick and leap around
the womb - well before the mother can feel movement
From 18 weeks, they can open their eyes although most doctors
thought eyelids were fused until 26 weeks
From 26 weeks, they appear to exhibit a whole range of typical
baby behaviour and moods, including scratching, smiling,
crying, hiccoughing, and sucking.
Until recently it was thought that smiling did not start until
six weeks after birth.
An hour long session using the new technology, which is not yet
available on the NHS, costs 275 pounds.
Full story with pictures:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3846525.stm
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 04:35:46 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cca17f$j81$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
Women are adult girls and as adults they have a duty to be
responsible
for
their actions.
And so another control freak makes his pronouncement.
It is all about controlling and punishing women.
Men are expected to accept what they are responsible for and sometimes
even
what they are not responsible for - you would prefer that we continue
the
path to treat women as mere children?
People are not responsible for making you happy, control freak.
Ad hominems are EASY - answering my question OTH proved too tough for
you.
What "question"? All you do is fart some crap about how women should
have some "duty" to be "responsible", as if that means something.
Women have no duty whatever to do what you consider to be
"responsible".
That's the key fact that you don't like to accept.
Being "responsible" does NOT mean "do what Philip Lewis" says.
I did not invent the word 'responsibility' nor it's definition.
Then I'll simply point out that getting an abortion when you aren't
ready or willing to be a parent is being responsible.
We do not extend that definition of 'responsible' to men so why should we
stretch it for women?
Phil
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "EvilZak" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
06 Jul 2004 04:17:19 AM |
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"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2kslnmF61m6mU1@uni-berlin.de>...
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cca17f$j81$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Then I'll simply point out that getting an abortion when you aren't
ready or willing to be a parent is being responsible.
We do not extend that definition of 'responsible' to men so why should we
stretch it for women?
Because, you fucking idiot, men can neither physically get pregnant
nor have abortions.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
07 Jul 2004 03:10:27 AM |
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"EvilZak" <zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1e57ec88.0407060117.3b20ae89@posting.google.com...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2kslnmF61m6mU1@uni-berlin.de>...
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cca17f$j81$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Then I'll simply point out that getting an abortion when you aren't
ready or willing to be a parent is being responsible.
We do not extend that definition of 'responsible' to men so why should
we
stretch it for women?
Because, you fucking idiot, men can neither physically get pregnant
nor have abortions.
A man who gets an order for making child support payments can say - 'even
though I willingly took part in the procreation that created this child, and
even though I cannot get pregnant and have no choices in thematter - I am
not ready or willing to be a parent so please absolve me of my
'responsibility'.
Yeah right!
Phil
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
05 Jul 2004 12:50:21 PM |
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Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Being "responsible" does NOT mean "do what Philip Lewis" says.
I did not invent the word 'responsibility' nor it's definition.
Then I'll simply point out that getting an abortion when you aren't
ready or willing to be a parent is being responsible.
We do not extend that definition of 'responsible' to men so why should we
stretch it for women?
Men don't get pregnant.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
07 Jul 2004 03:02:26 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccc4ct$nlj$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Being "responsible" does NOT mean "do what Philip Lewis" says.
I did not invent the word 'responsibility' nor it's definition.
Then I'll simply point out that getting an abortion when you aren't
ready or willing to be a parent is being responsible.
We do not extend that definition of 'responsible' to men so why should we
stretch it for women?
Men don't get pregnant.
Women don't get pregnant without a man involved.
Phil
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
07 Jul 2004 11:38:55 PM |
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Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Being "responsible" does NOT mean "do what Philip Lewis" says.
I did not invent the word 'responsibility' nor it's definition.
Then I'll simply point out that getting an abortion when you aren't
ready or willing to be a parent is being responsible.
We do not extend that definition of 'responsible' to men so why should we
stretch it for women?
Men don't get pregnant.
Women don't get pregnant without a man involved.
Sure they do. Go to a sperm bank and one doesn't ever need to have
any men involved.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "howldog" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
08 Jul 2004 09:08:56 AM |
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On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 04:38:55 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" < > wrote in message
Being "responsible" does NOT mean "do what Philip Lewis" says.
I did not invent the word 'responsibility' nor it's definition.
Then I'll simply point out that getting an abortion when you aren't
ready or willing to be a parent is being responsible.
We do not extend that definition of 'responsible' to men so why should we
stretch it for women?
Men don't get pregnant.
Women don't get pregnant without a man involved.
Sure they do. Go to a sperm bank and one doesn't ever need to have
any men involved.
where did the man-less sperm come from? Fantasyland?
there isnt a "specific" man involved but there obviously was a man
involved.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
08 Jul 2004 11:25:16 AM |
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howldog <nope@yahoo.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Being "responsible" does NOT mean "do what Philip Lewis" says.
I did not invent the word 'responsibility' nor it's definition.
Then I'll simply point out that getting an abortion when you aren't
ready or willing to be a parent is being responsible.
We do not extend that definition of 'responsible' to men so why should we
stretch it for women?
Men don't get pregnant.
Women don't get pregnant without a man involved.
Sure they do. Go to a sperm bank and one doesn't ever need to have
any men involved.
where did the man-less sperm come from?
As far as the woman is concerned that doesn't matter since SHE doesn't
have to involve any man.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
09 Jul 2004 05:59:29 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ccjshc$nla$1@bolt.sonic.net...
howldog <nope@yahoo.com> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Philip Lewis <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Being "responsible" does NOT mean "do what Philip Lewis" says.
I did not invent the word 'responsibility' nor it's definition.
Then I'll simply point out that getting an abortion when you
aren't
ready or willing to be a parent is being responsible.
We do not extend that definition of 'responsible' to men so why
should we
stretch it for women?
Men don't get pregnant.
Women don't get pregnant without a man involved.
Sure they do. Go to a sperm bank and one doesn't ever need to have
any men involved.
where did the man-less sperm come from?
As far as the woman is concerned that doesn't matter since SHE doesn't
have to involve any man.
Subjectively she may not be 'concerned' but the reality is that a man was
involved other wise there would have been no sperm to impregnate her with.
Try another semantic dance you clown!
Phil
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Saint Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
29 Jun 2004 01:51:42 AM |
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"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2kbbu3FcfegU1@uni-berlin.de...
Scans uncover secrets of the womb
A new type of ultrasound scan has produced the vivid pictures of a 12
week-old foetus "walking" in the womb.
===============================
You should see them running up and down the halls in the maternity ward....
FP.....
.
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| User: "EvilZak" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
29 Jun 2004 12:45:18 PM |
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"Saint Flower Power" <LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> wrote in message news:<sKSdnUStY9EcjHzdRVn-hQ@heartoftn.net>...
"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2kbbu3FcfegU1@uni-berlin.de...
Scans uncover secrets of the womb
A new type of ultrasound scan has produced the vivid pictures of a 12
week-old foetus "walking" in the womb.
===============================
You should see them running up and down the halls in the maternity ward....
At the risk of being disgustingly sentimental, would someone mind
posting me the URL of this as I would quite like to see the images.
(IT will make a pleasant change from the gross ones the antis
sometimes post)
.
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| User: "Stephanie" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
30 Jun 2004 10:01:27 AM |
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(EvilZak) wrote in message news:<1e57ec88.0406290945.27c0785@posting.google.com>...
"Saint Flower Power" <LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> wrote in message news:<sKSdnUStY9EcjHzdRVn-hQ@heartoftn.net>...
"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2kbbu3FcfegU1@uni-berlin.de...
Scans uncover secrets of the womb
A new type of ultrasound scan has produced the vivid pictures of a 12
week-old foetus "walking" in the womb.
===============================
You should see them running up and down the halls in the maternity ward....
At the risk of being disgustingly sentimental, would someone mind
posting me the URL of this as I would quite like to see the images.
(IT will make a pleasant change from the gross ones the antis
sometimes post)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3846525.stm
.
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| User: "Sister Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
30 Jun 2004 12:08:16 PM |
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"Stephanie" <havefaith@timahoe.net> wrote in message
news:45702f5e.0406300701.1ba6da63@posting.google.com...
zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk (EvilZak) wrote in message
news:<1e57ec88.0406290945.27c0785@posting.google.com>...
"Saint Flower Power" <LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> wrote in message
news:<sKSdnUStY9EcjHzdRVn-hQ@heartoftn.net>...
"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2kbbu3FcfegU1@uni-berlin.de...
Scans uncover secrets of the womb
A new type of ultrasound scan has produced the vivid pictures of a
12
week-old foetus "walking" in the womb.
===============================
You should see them running up and down the halls in the maternity
ward....
At the risk of being disgustingly sentimental, would someone mind
posting me the URL of this as I would quite like to see the images.
(IT will make a pleasant change from the gross ones the antis
sometimes post)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3846525.stm
=========================================
Because they're moving their legs they're "walking?" How would a fetus KNOW
what walking is? Why would they lose this ability to walk when they're
born? Animals also move their legs before birth (and make facial
grimacing). Loot at the other page where someone is suggesting crib-death
is caused by the baby dreaming of the womb. Any Dr can make any claim they
want - that doesn't make their claims true.
Anyway,... do you think this type of thing is going to stop desperate women
from aborting? I don't think so. Why don't you go to the churches and
schools and request they teach effective BC methods and disease prevention?
That alone would prevent millions of abortions a year. It seems girls/women
aren't learning this information from their family.
--
FPower.......
But look what your Jehovah god said in his bible:
Psalm 137:9
"Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the
stones." (Infanticide approved by god)
======================================
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
07 Jul 2004 04:48:13 PM |
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"Sister Flower Power" <LiberatedWomen@Freedom.house> wrote in message
news:m6OdncpZbPoVbn_dRVn-iQ@heartoftn.net...
"Stephanie" <havefaith@timahoe.net> wrote in message
news:45702f5e.0406300701.1ba6da63@posting.google.com...
zak@missdemeanour.idps.co.uk (EvilZak) wrote in message
news:<1e57ec88.0406290945.27c0785@posting.google.com>...
"Saint Flower Power" <LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> wrote in message
news:<sKSdnUStY9EcjHzdRVn-hQ@heartoftn.net>...
"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2kbbu3FcfegU1@uni-berlin.de...
Scans uncover secrets of the womb
A new type of ultrasound scan has produced the vivid pictures of a
12
week-old foetus "walking" in the womb.
===============================
You should see them running up and down the halls in the maternity
ward....
At the risk of being disgustingly sentimental, would someone mind
posting me the URL of this as I would quite like to see the images.
(IT will make a pleasant change from the gross ones the antis
sometimes post)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3846525.stm
=========================================
Because they're moving their legs they're "walking?" How would a fetus
KNOW
what walking is? Why would they lose this ability to walk when they're
born? Animals also move their legs before birth (and make facial
grimacing). Loot at the other page where someone is suggesting crib-death
is caused by the baby dreaming of the womb. Any Dr can make any claim
they
want - that doesn't make their claims true.
Anyway,... do you think this type of thing is going to stop desperate
women
from aborting? I don't think so. Why don't you go to the churches and
schools and request they teach effective BC methods and disease
prevention?
That alone would prevent millions of abortions a year. It seems
girls/women
aren't learning this information from their family.
You are sounding very defensive.
--
FPower.......
But look what your Jehovah god said in his bible:
Psalm 137:9
"Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the
stones." (Infanticide approved by god)
I am not interested in your religious mumbo jumbo - I am opposed to abortion
on demand for moral,ethical and humanitarian reasons.
Phil
======================================
.
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| User: "M is for Malapert" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
28 Jun 2004 08:58:40 PM |
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"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2kbbu3FcfegU1@uni-berlin.de...
Professor Campbell has previously released images of unborn babies
appearing to smile.
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen that first "smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry, it's just gas"?
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
29 Jun 2004 06:49:31 AM |
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"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:j14Ec.108360$2i5.88846@attbi_s52...
"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2kbbu3FcfegU1@uni-berlin.de...
Professor Campbell has previously released images of unborn babies
appearing to smile.
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen that first
"smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry, it's just gas"?
Yes cling on to that fragile hope that the unborn baby is not expressing the
unbounded joy it feels, after all it makes them easier to KILL if you can
persuade yourself that nothing at all is 'going on' even with all the
movement and 'kicks'...
Phil
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| User: "M is for Malapert" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
29 Jun 2004 02:36:03 PM |
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"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kd3afFr2cbU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:j14Ec.108360$2i5.88846@attbi_s52...
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen that first
"smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry, it's just gas"?
Yes cling on to that fragile hope that the unborn baby is not expressing
the
unbounded joy it feels,
Why do unborn babies feel more joy than born ones? Just curious.
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
29 Jun 2004 04:57:36 PM |
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"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:DwjEc.288$7t3.47@attbi_s51...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kd3afFr2cbU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:j14Ec.108360$2i5.88846@attbi_s52...
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen that first
"smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry, it's just
gas"?
Yes cling on to that fragile hope that the unborn baby is not expressing
the
unbounded joy it feels,
Why do unborn babies feel more joy than born ones? Just curious.
Everything is right there when you want it - after you are born you have to
wait for food - you can get too hot or too cold and a myriad of other things
to distract and sometimes distress.
Phil
.
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| User: "Mother Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
29 Jun 2004 11:07:28 PM |
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"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ke6ukF1aa5cU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:DwjEc.288$7t3.47@attbi_s51...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kd3afFr2cbU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:j14Ec.108360$2i5.88846@attbi_s52...
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen that first
"smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry, it's just
gas"?
Yes cling on to that fragile hope that the unborn baby is not
expressing
the
unbounded joy it feels,
Why do unborn babies feel more joy than born ones? Just curious.
=====================================================
Everything is right there when you want it - after you are born you have
to
wait for food - you can get too hot or too cold and a myriad of other
things
to distract and sometimes distress.
============================
They don't WANT anything - since they were never deprived of anything.
There is nothing to want. Why do you anti-choicers try to make them out to
be more than they are? You're trying to make them out have the intellect of
2 year olds.
FP.....
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
30 Jun 2004 05:17:43 AM |
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"Mother Flower Power" <LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> wrote in message
news:d7OdnVcd9tYMoX_dRVn-gQ@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ke6ukF1aa5cU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:DwjEc.288$7t3.47@attbi_s51...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kd3afFr2cbU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:j14Ec.108360$2i5.88846@attbi_s52...
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen that
first
"smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry, it's just
gas"?
Yes cling on to that fragile hope that the unborn baby is not
expressing
the
unbounded joy it feels,
Why do unborn babies feel more joy than born ones? Just curious.
=====================================================
Everything is right there when you want it - after you are born you have
to
wait for food - you can get too hot or too cold and a myriad of other
things
to distract and sometimes distress.
============================
They don't WANT anything - since they were never deprived of anything.
There is nothing to want. Why do you anti-choicers try to make them out
to
be more than they are? You're trying to make them out have the intellect
of
2 year olds.
Do you realise that in your reply you ASSUMED that 'joy' is only the product
of desire - in my experience joy happens in the ABSENCE of desire.
Phil
FP.....
.
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| User: "Sister Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
30 Jun 2004 11:43:00 AM |
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"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kfiabF1m1ltU1@uni-berlin.de...
"Mother Flower Power" <LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> wrote in message
news:d7OdnVcd9tYMoX_dRVn-gQ@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ke6ukF1aa5cU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:DwjEc.288$7t3.47@attbi_s51...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kd3afFr2cbU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:j14Ec.108360$2i5.88846@attbi_s52...
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen that
first
"smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry, it's
just
gas"?
Yes cling on to that fragile hope that the unborn baby is not
expressing
the
unbounded joy it feels,
Why do unborn babies feel more joy than born ones? Just curious.
=====================================================
Everything is right there when you want it - after you are born you
have
to
wait for food - you can get too hot or too cold and a myriad of other
things
to distract and sometimes distress.
============================
They don't WANT anything - since they were never deprived of anything.
There is nothing to want. Why do you anti-choicers try to make them out
to
be more than they are? You're trying to make them out have the
intellect
of
2 year olds.
Do you realise that in your reply you ASSUMED that 'joy' is only the
product
of desire - in my experience joy happens in the ABSENCE of desire.
Phil
=====================
That's YOUR experience.
--
Flower Power....
And there is ALSO the option of obtaining a legal and safe
abortion that will immediately get her life BACK on track as though
the unwanted pregnancy had never occured. No harm done, except for
spending some time and money on the reasonable fee charged
(a fraction of giving birth). After aborting, her well-being
and full range of future opportunities will have immediately been
RESTORED to before the unwanted pregnancy. (Insp. by GR).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
01 Jul 2004 05:08:39 AM |
|
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"Sister Flower Power" <LiberatedWomen@Freedom.house> wrote in message
news:F_idnT6xM7MCcH_dRVn-hA@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kfiabF1m1ltU1@uni-berlin.de...
"Mother Flower Power" <LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> wrote in message
news:d7OdnVcd9tYMoX_dRVn-gQ@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ke6ukF1aa5cU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:DwjEc.288$7t3.47@attbi_s51...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kd3afFr2cbU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:j14Ec.108360$2i5.88846@attbi_s52...
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen that
first
"smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry, it's
just
gas"?
Yes cling on to that fragile hope that the unborn baby is not
expressing
the
unbounded joy it feels,
Why do unborn babies feel more joy than born ones? Just curious.
=====================================================
Everything is right there when you want it - after you are born you
have
to
wait for food - you can get too hot or too cold and a myriad of
other
things
to distract and sometimes distress.
============================
They don't WANT anything - since they were never deprived of anything.
There is nothing to want. Why do you anti-choicers try to make them
out
to
be more than they are? You're trying to make them out have the
intellect
of
2 year olds.
Do you realise that in your reply you ASSUMED that 'joy' is only the
product
of desire - in my experience joy happens in the ABSENCE of desire.
Phil
=====================
That's YOUR experience.
My 'experience' also conforms to the basic definition of what joy is deemed
to be as it happens.
Phil
--
Flower Power....
And there is ALSO the option of obtaining a legal and safe
abortion that will immediately get her life BACK on track as though
the unwanted pregnancy had never occured. No harm done, except for
spending some time and money on the reasonable fee charged
(a fraction of giving birth). After aborting, her well-being
and full range of future opportunities will have immediately been
RESTORED to before the unwanted pregnancy. (Insp. by GR).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
|
|
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| User: "Flower Power DePastor" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
01 Jul 2004 03:04:40 PM |
|
|
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ki65bF2kvj5U1@uni-berlin.de...
"Sister Flower Power" <LiberatedWomen@Freedom.house> wrote in message
news:F_idnT6xM7MCcH_dRVn-hA@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kfiabF1m1ltU1@uni-berlin.de...
"Mother Flower Power" <LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> wrote in message
news:d7OdnVcd9tYMoX_dRVn-gQ@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ke6ukF1aa5cU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:DwjEc.288$7t3.47@attbi_s51...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kd3afFr2cbU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:j14Ec.108360$2i5.88846@attbi_s52...
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen
that
first
"smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry, it's
just
gas"?
Yes cling on to that fragile hope that the unborn baby is not
expressing
the
unbounded joy it feels,
Why do unborn babies feel more joy than born ones? Just
curious.
=====================================================
Everything is right there when you want it - after you are born
you
have
to
wait for food - you can get too hot or too cold and a myriad of
other
things
to distract and sometimes distress.
============================
They don't WANT anything - since they were never deprived of
anything.
There is nothing to want. Why do you anti-choicers try to make them
out
to
be more than they are? You're trying to make them out have the
intellect
of
2 year olds.
Do you realise that in your reply you ASSUMED that 'joy' is only the
product
of desire - in my experience joy happens in the ABSENCE of desire.
Phil
=====================
That's YOUR experience.
My 'experience' also conforms to the basic definition of what joy is
deemed
to be as it happens.
=======================
Next you're going to tell us how joyful you were as an early zygote, even
before you had a brain..... do you remember being as joyful and happy as a
sperm or egg as well?
--
Flower Power........
One women dies giving birth every 30 minutes in Afghanistan.
What an abortion REALLY looks like.
http://www.angelfire.com/pq/pepsii/nuva.html
.
|
|
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| User: "Philip Lewis" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
02 Jul 2004 06:47:52 AM |
|
|
"Flower Power DePastor" <Imposters@thisNG.now> wrote in message
news:6qKdnY3RqpH883ndRVn-sQ@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ki65bF2kvj5U1@uni-berlin.de...
"Sister Flower Power" <LiberatedWomen@Freedom.house> wrote in message
news:F_idnT6xM7MCcH_dRVn-hA@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kfiabF1m1ltU1@uni-berlin.de...
"Mother Flower Power" <LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> wrote in message
news:d7OdnVcd9tYMoX_dRVn-gQ@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ke6ukF1aa5cU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:DwjEc.288$7t3.47@attbi_s51...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kd3afFr2cbU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:j14Ec.108360$2i5.88846@attbi_s52...
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen
that
first
"smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry,
it's
just
gas"?
Yes cling on to that fragile hope that the unborn baby is
not
expressing
the
unbounded joy it feels,
Why do unborn babies feel more joy than born ones? Just
curious.
=====================================================
Everything is right there when you want it - after you are born
you
have
to
wait for food - you can get too hot or too cold and a myriad of
other
things
to distract and sometimes distress.
============================
They don't WANT anything - since they were never deprived of
anything.
There is nothing to want. Why do you anti-choicers try to make
them
out
to
be more than they are? You're trying to make them out have the
intellect
of
2 year olds.
Do you realise that in your reply you ASSUMED that 'joy' is only the
product
of desire - in my experience joy happens in the ABSENCE of desire.
Phil
=====================
That's YOUR experience.
My 'experience' also conforms to the basic definition of what joy is
deemed
to be as it happens.
=======================
Next you're going to tell us how joyful you were as an early zygote, even
before you had a brain..... do you remember being as joyful and happy as
a
sperm or egg as well?
The fact is you simply don't know WHEN the capacity for the experience of
joy commences.
Phil
--
Flower Power........
One women dies giving birth every 30 minutes in Afghanistan.
What an abortion REALLY looks like.
http://www.angelfire.com/pq/pepsii/nuva.html
.
|
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|
| User: "Steenkin Man" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
30 Jun 2004 05:34:43 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:17:43 +0100, "Philip Lewis"
<nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Mother Flower Power" <LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> wrote in message
news:d7OdnVcd9tYMoX_dRVn-gQ@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ke6ukF1aa5cU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:DwjEc.288$7t3.47@attbi_s51...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kd3afFr2cbU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:j14Ec.108360$2i5.88846@attbi_s52...
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen that
first
"smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry, it's just
gas"?
Yes cling on to that fragile hope that the unborn baby is not
expressing
the
unbounded joy it feels,
Why do unborn babies feel more joy than born ones? Just curious.
=====================================================
Everything is right there when you want it - after you are born you have
to
wait for food - you can get too hot or too cold and a myriad of other
things
to distract and sometimes distress.
============================
They don't WANT anything - since they were never deprived of anything.
There is nothing to want. Why do you anti-choicers try to make them out
to
be more than they are? You're trying to make them out have the intellect
of
2 year olds.
Do you realise that in your reply you ASSUMED that 'joy' is only the product
of desire - in my experience joy happens in the ABSENCE of desire.
Perfect reply, Phil.
It's a pity that Granny ***** Pot won't understand it, but it's a
perfect reply nonetheless.
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Philip Lewis" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
30 Jun 2004 06:11:09 AM |
|
|
"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2kfja7F1oe5jU1@uni-berlin.de...
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:17:43 +0100, "Philip Lewis"
<nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Mother Flower Power" <LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> wrote in message
news:d7OdnVcd9tYMoX_dRVn-gQ@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ke6ukF1aa5cU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:DwjEc.288$7t3.47@attbi_s51...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kd3afFr2cbU1@uni-berlin.de...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:j14Ec.108360$2i5.88846@attbi_s52...
Ah yes, the apparent smile. Haven't all us parents seen that
first
"smile"
and then been informed by the pediatrician that "sorry, it's
just
gas"?
Yes cling on to that fragile hope that the unborn baby is not
expressing
the
unbounded joy it feels,
Why do unborn babies feel more joy than born ones? Just curious.
=====================================================
Everything is right there when you want it - after you are born you
have
to
wait for food - you can get too hot or too cold and a myriad of other
things
to distract and sometimes distress.
============================
They don't WANT anything - since they were never deprived of anything.
There is nothing to want. Why do you anti-choicers try to make them
out
to
be more than they are? You're trying to make them out have the
intellect
of
2 year olds.
Do you realise that in your reply you ASSUMED that 'joy' is only the
product
of desire - in my experience joy happens in the ABSENCE of desire.
Perfect reply, Phil.
Thank you. :-o)
It's a pity that Granny ***** Pot won't understand it, but it's a
perfect reply nonetheless.
She may well understand it - whether she chooses to acknowledge her possible
understanding is another matter for her.
Phil
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sister Flower Power" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
30 Jun 2004 11:46:29 AM |
|
|
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kflehF1ft8tU1@uni-berlin.de...
She may well understand it - whether she chooses to acknowledge her
possible
understanding is another matter for her.
===========================
There's nothing to understand. A zygote with no functioning brain can
hardly feel JOY or any other emotion. Why WOULD a fetus feel *joy* about
anything since it never experienced anything? Look up the word "joy." You
obviously don't know the meaning of the word. ;-)
FP.........
.
|
|
|
| User: "Philip Lewis" |
|
| Title: Re: Now it's on the BBC site |
30 Jun 2004 05:59:45 PM |
|
|
"Sister Flower Power" <LiberatedWomen@Freedom.house> wrote in message
news:SuydnRoqgNjyc3_dRVn-hw@heartoftn.net...
"Philip Lewis" <nottelling@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kflehF1ft8tU1@uni-berlin.de...
She may well understand it - whether she chooses to acknowledge her
possible
understanding is another matter for her.
===========================
There's nothing to understand. A zygote with no functioning brain can
hardly feel JOY or any other emotion.
From Steadmans online medical dictionary:
http://216.251.232.159/semdweb/InternetSOMD/ASP/1582963.asp
zygote (zgt)
1.. The diploid cell resulting from union of a sperm and an ovum. Cf.
conceptus
2.. The individual that develops from a fertilized ovum.
[G. zygtos, yoked]
So you can see from the above that we are all zygote's i.e. we are all
individuals that have developed from a fertilized ovum. Now at what point do
we have a 'functioning brain' - if it only commences AFTER birth then it
must be an EXTREMELY dramatic event - like one moment you don't have a
'functioning brain' and then PLOP you're born and suddenly TADAAAAAA!!! you
have a 'functioning brain' just like that as if by 'magic'!! Now the 'thing'
that caused a 'functioning brain' to suddenly manifest must be smart, VERY
smart indeed - in fact even smarter than the thing it created as no one with
a mere 'functioning brain' has been able to create anything remotely as
sophisticated, single handed out of a mass of carbon based cells and to do
it POW just like that!!
Then again you might be making some VERY ignorant assumptions and
coincidentally that is also my opinion based on the evidence so far.
Why WOULD a fetus feel *joy* about
anything since it never experienced anything? Look up the word "joy."
You
obviously don't know the meaning of the word. ;-)
You will note below that 'joy' is also described as an emotion evoked by
well-being.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=joy
Main Entry: 1joy
Pronunciation: 'joi
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French joie, from Latin gaudia, plural
of gaudium, from gaudEre to rejoice; probably akin to Greek gEthein to
rejoice.
The emotion evoked by well-being, success, or good fortune or by the
prospect of possessing what one desires
In other words 'JOY' can be evoked simply as a result of well-being - now
even you earlier admitted that unborn babies 'have it all laid on' so to
speak.
Why can it not enjoy it's state of well-being - what is preventing you from
being at least open to the idea that lack of memory is not lack of reality
for that later unremembered. If a person say for example had killed someone
(for whatever reason, circumstances etc) then later the killer experiences
some major traumatic event - an event for momentous and traumatic that it
caused the killer to lose his\her memory of the killing that he\she had
earlier commited - does that mean that the killing never happened - of
course not. Same thing after we are born - we have just passed through from
one safe cosy world into an awesome 'alien' world with strange sounds,smells
and a myriad of other things that are so overwhelming that it can't even
take most of it in. Now finally consider two factors:-
1. We have a traumatic event (i.e. birth)
2 Since we are born we have been associating 'joy' with specifics
appertaining to this external world e.g. a sunny day, blue sky, white puffy
clouds walking hand in hand with a loved one down tree lined country
lane...'. Odd thing is that it is possible that you could reassemble all
those 'components' at a another time and the experience could possibly be
far from 'joyfull' - because it is not the external 'ingredients' that are
the properties of joy - it is the state of well being that is the key
property of joy.
You are limiting 'joy' to the world where in fact our well-being is far more
under constant threat than the one we all left after we were 'born'.
I don't choose to burden myself with such ignorance.
Phil
FP.........
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