| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Tleilax" |
| Date: |
04 Oct 2006 07:28:40 PM |
| Object: |
one abortion a second |
EACH year over thirty million abortions are performed throughout the
world. That is about one abortion for every second of each day all year
long.
Iin recent years many countries have passed more permissive abortion
laws. In some places there are very few restrictions, meaning that the
legal policy is 'abortion on demand.' Some authorities predict that
most countries will eventually adopt this attitude. In India killing
unborn girls is an accepted practice.
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 09:38:57 AM |
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On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 12:54:46 GMT, in alt.talk.creationism
Gilbertus Albans <primemenstat@world.net> wrote in
<qsNVg.1059$e65.255@trnddc05>:
Kate wrote:
Yes they do teach sex education to their children Abstinance is a
guarenteed way to avoid getting pregnant and STD's and other things
that premaritial sex causes including emotional harm.
According to evolution premarital sex increase the population.
What a strange response.
By giving
children a strong moral compass and a rightness with God (or whichever
faith one holds right) then one can have self-control.
According to atheism, "morals" are a religious invention.
No, morals are a cultural construct.
....
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| User: "Gilbertus Albans" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 11:03:58 AM |
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Free Lunch wrote:
No, morals are a cultural construct.
...
know of an ancient culture that did not have a God telling them what to do.
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| User: "Kate" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 01:23:26 PM |
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I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
mentioned as a sin?
As I see it young people and even married peple have natural sexual
drives for young people its a fine outlet and a much better choice than
having sex with someone else. And what is unhealthy about it its good
for physical exertion for the heart, releases endorphines that relaxes
the body and is recreational. Plus EVERYONE does it unlike sex with
another person its universal for both men and women.
And I'm a Messianic Jew and a children's ministry Rabbi not an
Evangelical although I do agree with them on many Biblical issues. I
prefer to be called conservative person of faith.
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| User: "Henry Mankinna" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 05:02:46 PM |
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"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160245406.670163.304770@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
mentioned as a sin?
Among the Jehovah's Witnesses it's a filthy, dirty, disgusting, perverted
act as is oral sex of any kind.
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| User: "Tom S" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 05:35:24 PM |
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On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 17:02:46 -0500, "Henry Mankinna"
<mankinna93@gmail.com> wrote:
"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160245406.670163.304770@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
mentioned as a sin?
Among the Jehovah's Witnesses it's a filthy, dirty, disgusting, perverted
act as is oral sex of any kind.
Both acts are prohibited by the "Law" as given in Exodus and Deut.
Tom S.
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| User: "Henry Mankinna" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 07:44:05 PM |
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"Tom S" <tscalfjr@cox.net> wrote in message
news:aragi21h5iekspuv6t2sji852gvl1kth9f@4ax.com...
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 17:02:46 -0500, "Henry Mankinna"
<mankinna93@gmail.com> wrote:
"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160245406.670163.304770@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
mentioned as a sin?
Among the Jehovah's Witnesses it's a filthy, dirty, disgusting, perverted
act as is oral sex of any kind.
Both acts are prohibited by the "Law" as given in Exodus and Deut.
Not that I saw.
Tom S.
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| User: "Kate" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 09:49:25 PM |
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Yes fine show me the passages and the CONTEXT of the passages that ban
self-pleasure.
Jewish tradition does have secondary writings from the Rabbis saying
its a negative act but that is different than Torah Law.
Henry Mankinna wrote:
"Tom S" <tscalfjr@cox.net> wrote in message
news:aragi21h5iekspuv6t2sji852gvl1kth9f@4ax.com...
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 17:02:46 -0500, "Henry Mankinna"
<mankinna93@gmail.com> wrote:
"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160245406.670163.304770@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
mentioned as a sin?
Among the Jehovah's Witnesses it's a filthy, dirty, disgusting, perverted
act as is oral sex of any kind.
Both acts are prohibited by the "Law" as given in Exodus and Deut.
Not that I saw.
Tom S.
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| User: "Henry Mankinna" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
08 Oct 2006 01:25:26 AM |
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"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160275765.129145.80180@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Yes fine show me the passages and the CONTEXT of the passages that ban
self-pleasure.
Jewish tradition does have secondary writings from the Rabbis saying
its a negative act but that is different than Torah Law.
Why is it a negative act? Because no one gets pregnant?
Henry Mankinna wrote:
"Tom S" <tscalfjr@cox.net> wrote in message
news:aragi21h5iekspuv6t2sji852gvl1kth9f@4ax.com...
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 17:02:46 -0500, "Henry Mankinna"
<mankinna93@gmail.com> wrote:
"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160245406.670163.304770@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
mentioned as a sin?
Among the Jehovah's Witnesses it's a filthy, dirty, disgusting,
perverted
act as is oral sex of any kind.
Both acts are prohibited by the "Law" as given in Exodus and Deut.
Not that I saw.
Tom S.
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 07:19:47 PM |
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On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 18:35:24 -0400, in alt.talk.creationism
Tom S <tscalfjr@cox.net> wrote in
<aragi21h5iekspuv6t2sji852gvl1kth9f@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 17:02:46 -0500, "Henry Mankinna"
<mankinna93@gmail.com> wrote:
"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160245406.670163.304770@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
mentioned as a sin?
Among the Jehovah's Witnesses it's a filthy, dirty, disgusting, perverted
act as is oral sex of any kind.
Both acts are prohibited by the "Law" as given in Exodus and Deut.
So are cheeseburgers and cotton-polyester blends.
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| User: "Henry Mankinna" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 07:46:20 PM |
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"Free Lunch" <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
news:g0hgi29c9a6bmlrpci391i85g371g90iqp@4ax.com...
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 18:35:24 -0400, in alt.talk.creationism
Tom S <tscalfjr@cox.net> wrote in
<aragi21h5iekspuv6t2sji852gvl1kth9f@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 17:02:46 -0500, "Henry Mankinna"
<mankinna93@gmail.com> wrote:
"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160245406.670163.304770@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
mentioned as a sin?
Among the Jehovah's Witnesses it's a filthy, dirty, disgusting, perverted
act as is oral sex of any kind.
Both acts are prohibited by the "Law" as given in Exodus and Deut.
So are cheeseburgers and cotton-polyester blends.
And great cuisine such as creamed lobster in shrimp sauce.
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| User: "Kate" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 05:22:38 PM |
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Yes no passage in the Bible in the Torah or New Testament makes
masturbation a sin, and when the Bible says nothing on a subject for
good or ill its neutral on the matter. Now excessive acts of any sort
are kind of warned against but I see no problem with it. I teach our
family values to our children you can teach yours its still a FREE
country. I just don't want the STATE telling my children about sex
that's my job in a way that suits me and my husband.
Henry Mankinna wrote:
"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160245406.670163.304770@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
mentioned as a sin?
Among the Jehovah's Witnesses it's a filthy, dirty, disgusting, perverted
act as is oral sex of any kind.
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| User: "Lizzardwoman" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 05:29:45 PM |
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"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160259758.562594.107570@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Yes no passage in the Bible in the Torah or New Testament makes
| masturbation a sin, and when the Bible says nothing on a subject for
| good or ill its neutral on the matter. Now excessive acts of any sort
| are kind of warned against but I see no problem with it. I teach our
| family values to our children you can teach yours its still a FREE
| country. I just don't want the STATE telling my children about sex
| that's my job in a way that suits me and my husband.
That's fine.
Then you can probably understand rational folks not wanting religious folks
telling them they should not commit imaginary crimes (sins) like first
trimester abortions, stem-cell research, and granting equal marriage rights
to homosexuals, yes?
sharon
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| User: "Lizzardwoman" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 02:27:38 PM |
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"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160245406.670163.304770@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
|I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
| mentioned as a sin?
Can you show that "sin" is not just an imaginary crime?
That is, can you come up with a non-religious reason that would persuade a
rational person that your views are correct for society?
--
sharon
"This is why the results of scientific research tend to converge, and why
religious dogmas tends to diverge. One is dealing with something real, and
the other is not." -- Denis Loubet
"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is
human concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind
cannot begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an
old religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and
never has been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent
in its simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of
madness." -- Emmett F. Fields
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| User: "=?iso-8859-1?B?fiBT5GJs6yB+?=" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 05:04:09 PM |
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"Lizzardwoman" <lizzardwomanRMOVE@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4oqdcqFg0k8hU1@individual.net...
"Kate" <katecoleman_fl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160245406.670163.304770@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
|I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
| mentioned as a sin?
Can you show that "sin" is not just an imaginary crime?
Complicating matters is what one society considers a sin another does not.
--
Finzeo....
"True, there have been those in times past who
predicted an 'end of the world,' even announcing a specific date...The 'end'
did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was
missing?...Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that
he was guiding and using them." Awake October 8, 1968, p. 23
NOTE: But when THEY predicted the end and it never came - that was
different?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "rogue" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
07 Oct 2006 10:48:32 PM |
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Kate wrote:
I find nothing wrong with masturbation and where in the Bible is it
mentioned as a sin?
JERRY
Oooh, oooh, oooh, I know this one, Alex!
For $100. "What is Onan and Onanism?"
You can argue the interpretation all you want. Onan is why
evangelicals condemn masturbation.
KATE
As I see it young people and even married peple have natural sexual
drives for young people its a fine outlet and a much better choice than
having sex with someone else. And what is unhealthy about it its good
for physical exertion for the heart, releases endorphines that relaxes
the body and is recreational. Plus EVERYONE does it unlike sex with
another person its universal for both men and women.
JERRY
we are in agreement on this point.
KATE
And I'm a Messianic Jew and a children's ministry Rabbi not an
Evangelical although I do agree with them on many Biblical issues. I
prefer to be called conservative person of faith.
JERRY
Now, Messianic Jews?
Isn't that like, an oxymoron? If you believe in Jesus, you aren't a
Jew, according to Jackie Mason. You can't be a chair and a toaster at
the same time. ;-)
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| User: "rogue" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
06 Oct 2006 09:24:11 PM |
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Kate wrote:
Yes they do teach sex education to their children Abstinance is a
guarenteed way to avoid getting pregnant and STD's and other things
that premaritial sex causes including emotional harm. By giving
children a strong moral compass and a rightness with God (or whichever
faith one holds right) then one can have self-control.
JERRY
We agree here. My concern is if you are teaching ONLY abstinence.
Unfortunately the desire for sex is a very powerful one for teenagers
and they should be knowledgeable on how to protect themselves IMO.
Kate
I with my
husband sat EACH of our children down and explained why they should
wait to have sexual relations not just religious grounds but practical
ones like a child is not emotionally ready at even their late teens to
handle the emotions. That if they want to have pleasure masturbation is
a fine alternative I even bought my daughter some toys and a book on
that. For me its a matter of being the teacher and guide to MY
children. They are not the states children, not the churches children
and not your children they are MY children. And its MY job to teach
them as I see fit according to my morals and beliefs with my husband.
JERRY
'then you are not typical of the average evangelical Christian family.
None of the ones I know would want to discuss masterbation with their
kids. They would want to tell them that self-control should apply here
as well.
Kate
We are not animals we a human beings with a soul and a moral conscience
and have self-control people seem to forget that.
JERRY
We are also biological animals with a powerful drive to reproduce the
species. To deny that is to ignore reality. Yes, because we are
sentient animals, we have the self-awareness to make decisions that are
not based entirely upon instinct including "self-control," but to
assume that self-control will, in all situations be sufficient is part
of that "head in the sand" tendency I mentioned.
Kids, boys AND girls, often equate their lust with love. And
regardless of religious training, kids who believe themselves to be "in
love" may take the next step and move to a physical relationship. In
fact, the longer they are together and trust each other more, the more
likely they are to have that physical relationship. Kids (and I mean
those past puberty who may or may not be at the age of consent - as
age is not really proof IMO that someone is mature) enjoy touching.
They will progress from touching to petting and from petting to other
more pleasurable avenues of expressing their love and trust in each
other.
Therefore, it's not enough to teach only abstinence.
Kate
Another point the women are the moral gatekeepers its our job to make
men put us on a pedestal and respect us, loose morals and focusing on
physical beauty and pleasure hurts all women when it degrades our
gender.
JERRY
Close: women are the Sexual gatekeepers, not moral. And, since there
are plenty of people, men and women, who love sex or equate sex with
love, a woman who wants to say NO and says it very often will not stop
her partner from having sex, only from having sex with Her.
One of the old saws that I have found to be very accurate is that men
play at love to get sex and women play at sex to get love.
Kate
I like the double standard it protects us like a suit of armor
a man that respects a woman will not try to violate her honor- in this
society we lost that. Women with the promiscuity, debasement of our
gender and open lewdness which sex outside of marriage is is killing
our genders honor. No that does not mean giving men power over us its
embracing that power we have in ourselves as women and creatures gifted
by the Creator to bring and nuture life into this world- and standing
alongside men. Them protecting us and we continuing the beauty of life
having children and nutring those around us. God's plan is beautiful
and I for one enjoy my role.
JERRY
We are getting far astray of the point here and going in a direction
that is best left for another thread. On some points, we have some
agreement (I tend to put my wife on a pedastal and have been raised to
treat women as goddesses, but there are also times she doesn't want to
be the goddess and there are women who want to be treated as equals,
not superiors. It depends a lot on the relationship and the situation
so you can't really make blanket statements here. ) and on other
points I think you are tending to be overly simplistic in your
statements.
By the way I'm no prude either my husband and I have relations often, I
use birth control and when sex is between a couple in the blessings of
marriage its a good thing. I don't think its JUST to procreate sex is a
beautiful act that bonds tow souls together and is a gift from God.
Just understand I feel that is for marriage.
JERRY
Then again, you are not typical of the evangelicals who want to try to
claim that the purpose of sex is procreation. At least, they want to
make this claim when denigrating gays. Sex can be something that
relieves stress, can be an expression of love and longing and can (but
doesn' t necessarily) lead to procreation.
Kate
As for abortion like I said it should be allowed only to save the life
of the mother if the child cannot be brought along enough to have it
removed from the mother and given a chance to survive with our advanced
technology. A fairly high bar as our science improves. Thank God. But
in the cases of rape and incest is it the CHILD'S fault how it was
made?
JERRY
Is it the mother's? Why should she carry a fetus full term for
something she had no power over? Why should she be reminded every day,
all day long, over and over and over of her powerlessness and misery?
Kate
Why kill the innocent life for no good reason? If the mother
cannot be a mother then adopt the child out or place the child in an
orphanage properly run to care for and raise the child it would be an
acceptable option.
JERRY
And here is where we part company. In my viewpoint, it's not a child
until it's born. It's a fetus, viable or not viable. To try to treat
a fetus as a human being is not only silly, it goes against what the
bible says. In the only case in the bible where abortion is mentioned,
God allegedly tells his people that if a man strikes a woman with child
and the child dies, but not the mother, the man owes a fine to the
father of the child (not the mother, as in Judaism and Christianity,
woman are less than men). However, if a man strikes a woman with child
and the woman dies, then the man is to be put to death.
What this indicates is that God (if you really want to assume the book
to be "God's will") does not consider a fetus to be the same as a
child. To attempt to equate the two is a matter of choice on the part
of the Christian that they can't support, either in fact or in their
own bible.
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| User: "Logician" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
11 Oct 2006 07:31:37 AM |
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Tleilax wrote:
EACH year over thirty million abortions are performed throughout the
world. That is about one abortion for every second of each day all year
long.
Iin recent years many countries have passed more permissive abortion
laws. In some places there are very few restrictions, meaning that the
legal policy is 'abortion on demand.' Some authorities predict that
most countries will eventually adopt this attitude. In India killing
unborn girls is an accepted practice.
They missed Bush - he was born.
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| User: "PerfectlyAble" |
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| Title: Re: one abortion a second |
11 Oct 2006 01:09:44 PM |
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Tleilax wrote:
EACH year over thirty million abortions are performed throughout the
world. That is about one abortion for every second of each day all year
long.
Iin recent years many countries have passed more permissive abortion
laws. In some places there are very few restrictions, meaning that the
legal policy is 'abortion on demand.' Some authorities predict that
most countries will eventually adopt this attitude. In India killing
unborn girls is an accepted practice.
yeah, so a global ban, undebatable incredibly stupid ban it
totally, oh that would be better. Abortion is a global phenomena
and because some arsewipe Christo-fascist declares its wrong
nobody has dares debate why abortion is a necessary evil.
Why so many women, in diverse cultures, speaking hundreds
of different langauges beg doctors to kill their unborn children!
Oh, you jesus freaks really have cornered stupidity, ban it
but don't debate it, your all so high and mighty about life
yet will not discuss the reasons why women don't want to
die in pregnancy when a simple abortion will save them.
Who don't want a life with a retarded child that will never
give them grandkids (i.e. pro-lifers aren't pro life!). Or the
women fearing mental instability from not knowing whether
her adopted child is being raped or molested and beating
herself up that should couldn't keep it because all she
could see in her baby was her rapists face staring back.
Oh, yep, we have your number you seething bad of jesus
freaking oh you so high morals lying.
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