On 21 Apr 2005 22:20:31 -0700, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

Bill Baker wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:39:49 -0400, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>

wrote

in message news:<MOadnfCtn-Cs2vXfRVn-3g@comcast.com>...

"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.04.21.21.16.04.491846@postini.spamcon.org...

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:17:54 -0700, "osprey"

<noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote

in message

news:<1114114674.115060.290710@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>...

Maaxx wrote:

We've been waiting for the details on the recent Gallup Poll

which

showed opposition to same-sex marriage at an all-time high, and

now

we've got it.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=15889

Some of the things which I thought especially interesting were

the

results which showed that younger people (18-29) support a
Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage by a 56/39 margin

(so

much for the concept that gay marriage proponents just have to

wait

until the younger generation grows up), while the demographic

with the

least support for an amendment is people 50-64 (ie, the cream of

the

Baby Boomer generation), who only support such an amendment by a

51/45

margin.

This is a good example that age doesn't determine the attitude.

People

are going to decide themselves if homosexuality is normal or not.

Most

will agree it is not normal.
I don't know if it is genetic or learned. It could be a

combination of

both.
While I don't hate homosexuals and I don't think they should be
discriminated against, I don't think we need to be passing laws

that

protect people based on sexual preference either.

Why not? Do you think that homosexuals are not in need of

protection?

I think everyone is provided the same rights, and it doesn't need

to be

based on sexual preference. Read the constitution.

If homosexuals aren't allowed to marry the non-related adult of their
choice, then they are being denied rights. Would you want the

government

to choose your wife for you?

First, marriage isn't a right.

"The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital
personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free
men."
"Marriage is one of the 'basic civil rights of man,' fundamental to
our very existence and survival."
Loving. v. Virginia.

"Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race,
nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a
family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during
marriage and at its dissolution."
Universal Declaration of Human Hights.

Marriage IS a right.

Second, all people, who are citizens of the United States, are afforded
the same rights guarenteed to us by the Constitution.

The Constitution is not the only place where rights are guaranteed,
however.


{clip}

On 21 Apr 2005 22:20:31 -0700, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

Bill Baker wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:39:49 -0400, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>

wrote

in message news:<MOadnfCtn-Cs2vXfRVn-3g@comcast.com>...

"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.04.21.21.16.04.491846@postini.spamcon.org...

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:17:54 -0700, "osprey"

<noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote

in message

news:<1114114674.115060.290710@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>...

Maaxx wrote:

We've been waiting for the details on the recent Gallup Poll

which

showed opposition to same-sex marriage at an all-time high, and

now

we've got it.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=15889

Some of the things which I thought especially interesting were

the

results which showed that younger people (18-29) support a
Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage by a 56/39 margin

(so

much for the concept that gay marriage proponents just have to

wait

until the younger generation grows up), while the demographic

with the

least support for an amendment is people 50-64 (ie, the cream of

the

Baby Boomer generation), who only support such an amendment by a

51/45

margin.

This is a good example that age doesn't determine the attitude.

People

are going to decide themselves if homosexuality is normal or not.

Most

will agree it is not normal.
I don't know if it is genetic or learned. It could be a

combination of

both.
While I don't hate homosexuals and I don't think they should be
discriminated against, I don't think we need to be passing laws

that

protect people based on sexual preference either.

Why not? Do you think that homosexuals are not in need of

protection?

I think everyone is provided the same rights, and it doesn't need

to be

based on sexual preference. Read the constitution.

If homosexuals aren't allowed to marry the non-related adult of their
choice, then they are being denied rights. Would you want the

government

to choose your wife for you?

First, marriage isn't a right.

"The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital
personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free
men."
"Marriage is one of the 'basic civil rights of man,' fundamental to
our very existence and survival."
Loving. v. Virginia.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:20:31 -0700, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote
in message news:<1114147231.409732.109750@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>...

Bill Baker wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:39:49 -0400, "Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote in message news:<MOadnfCtn-Cs2vXfRVn-3g@comcast.com>...

"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.04.21.21.16.04.491846@postini.spamcon.org...

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:17:54 -0700, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com>
wrote in message
news:<1114114674.115060.290710@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>...

Maaxx wrote:

We've been waiting for the details on the recent Gallup Poll which
showed opposition to same-sex marriage at an all-time high, and
now we've got it.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=15889

Some of the things which I thought especially interesting were the
results which showed that younger people (18-29) support a
Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage by a 56/39 margin
(so much for the concept that gay marriage proponents just have to
wait until the younger generation grows up), while the demographic
with the least support for an amendment is people 50-64 (ie, the
cream of the Baby Boomer generation), who only support such an
amendment by a 51/45 margin.

This is a good example that age doesn't determine the attitude.
People are going to decide themselves if homosexuality is normal or
not. Most will agree it is not normal. I don't know if it is
genetic or learned. It could be a combination of both. While I
don't hate homosexuals and I don't think they should be
discriminated against, I don't think we need to be passing laws
that protect people based on sexual preference either.

Why not? Do you think that homosexuals are not in need of
protection?

I think everyone is provided the same rights, and it doesn't need to
be based on sexual preference. Read the constitution.

If homosexuals aren't allowed to marry the non-related adult of their
choice, then they are being denied rights. Would you want the
government to choose your wife for you?

First, marriage isn't a right.

You don't mind if I don't take your word for that, do you? After all, the
Supreme Court ruled that it was back in 1967.

Second, all people, who are citizens of the United States, are afforded
the same rights guarenteed to us by the Constitution.

Even the woman who was arrested for exercising her free speech right at
Laura Bush's speech back during the election?

Bush's security team got fired for letting someone with a dissenting
opinion that close to the First Lady.

That people aren't beaten up and denied housing and jobs because of
their sexual orientation?

Why would they be denied housing and jobs if they don't tell anyone?
Why is that an issue in regards to a job or applying for a house?
Answer: It isn't an issue unless it is made an issue.

Why should they try to hide it any more than you should have to hide
certain aspects about your life?

It isn't anyone's business who my partner is..heterosexual or
homosexual. It has absolutely no business being an issue, and as far as
I know it isn't an issue, in regards to housing or applying for a job.
It isn't a matter of hiding, it's a matter of keeping what's relevant to
the job or application. Sexual preference isn't relevant.

But what if you try to do that and someone finds out anyway?

think there should be laws to protect people from discrimination in that
case?

If people were being denied housing and jobs because they are
Christians, would you try to hide the fact that you are one? Would you
go to church in secret for fear someone may find out that you are a
Christian?

As far as beaten up, they don't deserve to be beaten up any more than
anyone else.

Nobody deserves to be beaten up, period.

I think we agree

Well, I would hope so. :-)

In regards to the marriage issue, I think that the public will
decide what constitutes marriage.

The public does not have the right to decide what is right for two
private citizens.

They don't vote?
When did that happen?????

The majority cannot vote away the rights of minorities.

The majority will vote for the candidates that support the issues they
support.

That doesn't change the fact that the majority cannot vote away the rights
of minorities in this country.

And no one as far as I know is voting away any rights. The majority is
in favor of civil unions. Politicians will cater to the majority, that
is if they wish to keep their position. That's politics.

And when a grave miscarriage of justice is being done by those laws,
that's when the court steps in, as they are doing now. You know, the ones
conservatives call "activist judges" but actually have no proof of that?

No matter what laws, amendments, etc. are passed, same-sex marriage
will eventually be a reality.

Right...if you say so.

I do. Just watch.

I'm watching

It may take 10 years, 20 years or even 50 years, but eventually it will
happen. I guarantee it. Conservatives know it, that's why they're trying
to make up new laws to postpone it as long as possible.