| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Gactimus" |
| Date: |
05 Aug 2004 07:51:18 PM |
| Object: |
Oregon and Gay Marriage |
Yesterday, Missouri voters delivered an overwhelming victory for a state
constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. Similar initiatives are
likely to be on the ballot on November 2 in the swing states of Ohio,
Michigan, and Oregon.
Particularly interesting for me is the oh-so-swingy neighboring state of
Oregon, which has been somewhat neglected by political analysts.
Oregon has been the site of a bitter debate over gay marriage, with county
officials being particularly blatant in their disregard for the will of
the people. Add to that an unpopular Democrat governor who pushed a
massive tax increase that was overwhelmingly defeated.
An initiative to ban gay marriage in Oregon has gathered more signatures
than any other initiative ever. With that on the ballot, and given the
demonstrated untrustworthiness of Democrat elected officials in Oregon,
President Bush could pull off a strong showing and easily win the state.
.
|
|
| User: "Brent Norman" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
07 Aug 2004 10:28:44 AM |
|
|
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message news:<1bp29u9e2eugg$.dlg@alaska.local>...
Yesterday, Missouri voters delivered an overwhelming victory for a state
constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. Similar initiatives are
likely to be on the ballot on November 2 in the swing states of Ohio,
Michigan, and Oregon.
Particularly interesting for me is the oh-so-swingy neighboring state of
Oregon, which has been somewhat neglected by political analysts.
Oregon has been the site of a bitter debate over gay marriage, with county
officials being particularly blatant in their disregard for the will of
the people. Add to that an unpopular Democrat governor who pushed a
massive tax increase that was overwhelmingly defeated.
An initiative to ban gay marriage in Oregon has gathered more signatures
than any other initiative ever. With that on the ballot, and given the
demonstrated untrustworthiness of Democrat elected officials in Oregon,
President Bush could pull off a strong showing and easily win the state.
I think it is rather silly that so many people can mobilize, consuming
precious resources and time on a ridiculous exercise in semantics such
as this, when there are so many other important issues that fall on
the wayside: Health care, the economy, poverty, social programs,
security/terrorism, and law enforcement, just to name a few.
In a world of suicide bombers, abused children, and people without
health insurance dying, Missouri decides to take on the important
issues head-on. Congrats.
I'm so glad that Missouri voters really stepped up to the plate to
ensure that marriage will continue to be an institution that is
practised by reality-game-shows, fickle superstars, adulterers, and
serial matrimonialists, while keeping the whole lifetime
commitment/devotion thing on the sidelines where it apparently
belongs.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kate Gladstone" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
07 Aug 2004 01:25:53 PM |
|
|
Brent talks about ...
... a ridiculous exercise in semantics ...
Just out of curiosity, what makes "an exercise in semantics" either
ridiculous or non-ridiculous?
;-)
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Kate Gladstone - Handwriting Repair -
http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Matty" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
06 Aug 2004 01:43:08 AM |
|
|
On 6/8/04 10:51 AM, in article 1bp29u9e2eugg$.dlg@alaska.local, "Gactimus"
<gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Yesterday, Missouri voters delivered an overwhelming victory for a state
constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. Similar initiatives are
likely to be on the ballot on November 2 in the swing states of Ohio,
Michigan, and Oregon.
Particularly interesting for me is the oh-so-swingy neighboring state of
Oregon, which has been somewhat neglected by political analysts.
Oregon has been the site of a bitter debate over gay marriage, with county
officials being particularly blatant in their disregard for the will of
the people. Add to that an unpopular Democrat governor who pushed a
massive tax increase that was overwhelmingly defeated.
An initiative to ban gay marriage in Oregon has gathered more signatures
than any other initiative ever. With that on the ballot, and given the
demonstrated untrustworthiness of Democrat elected officials in Oregon,
President Bush could pull off a strong showing and easily win the state.
Nice to see that you never covered the reason FOR that tax increase. I don't
have the answer, but I am sure there was a valid reason for it.
Then again, had they cut government services rather than raise taxes, we'd
have the republicans ***** and moan claiming they could lower taxes, have
more government services simply by printing money and borrowing like there
is no tomorrow.
Matty
--
My blog: http://kaiwai.blogspot.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher L Morris" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
06 Aug 2004 09:26:33 PM |
|
|
Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<BD39659C.6CD8%kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au>...
On 6/8/04 10:51 AM, in article 1bp29u9e2eugg$.dlg@alaska.local, "Gactimus"
<gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Yesterday, Missouri voters delivered an overwhelming victory for a state
constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. Similar initiatives are
likely to be on the ballot on November 2 in the swing states of Ohio,
Michigan, and Oregon.
Particularly interesting for me is the oh-so-swingy neighboring state of
Oregon, which has been somewhat neglected by political analysts.
Oregon has been the site of a bitter debate over gay marriage, with county
officials being particularly blatant in their disregard for the will of
the people. Add to that an unpopular Democrat governor who pushed a
massive tax increase that was overwhelmingly defeated.
An initiative to ban gay marriage in Oregon has gathered more signatures
than any other initiative ever. With that on the ballot, and given the
demonstrated untrustworthiness of Democrat elected officials in Oregon,
President Bush could pull off a strong showing and easily win the state.
Nice to see that you never covered the reason FOR that tax increase. I don't
have the answer, but I am sure there was a valid reason for it.
I live across the border in Washington, but Oregon like most States in
the United States have been hit hard by the recession and the so
called recovery, hell if we recover anymore we can all declare
bankrupcy together.
Then again, had they cut government services rather than raise taxes, we'd
have the republicans ***** and moan claiming they could lower taxes, have
more government services simply by printing money and borrowing like there
is no tomorrow.
Matty
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "New10." |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
05 Aug 2004 09:28:38 PM |
|
|
There are certain emotionally charged issues that should NOT be put to the
vote. Issues that is private and personal. Abortion, euthanasia, and
homosexual marriage
New10.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gactimus" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
06 Aug 2004 04:37:25 PM |
|
|
"New10." <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote in
news:q1CQc.97$aB1.13@twister.socal.rr.com:
There are certain emotionally charged issues that should NOT be put to
the vote. Issues that is private and personal. Abortion, euthanasia, and
homosexual marriage
Homosexual marriage, abortion, and euthanasia are not private and personal.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Light Templar" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
06 Aug 2004 04:48:30 PM |
|
|
While Gactimus was contemplating his or her navel in
news:4a48d0ce8b0c14c2e51bac4c51abbc91@news.bubbanews.com,
<gactimus@xrs.net> he or she gave us all a good laugh with the following...
"New10." <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote in
news:q1CQc.97$aB1.13@twister.socal.rr.com:
There are certain emotionally charged issues that should NOT be put
to the vote. Issues that is private and personal. Abortion,
euthanasia, and homosexual marriage
Homosexual marriage, abortion, and euthanasia are not private and
personal.
How do they effect you personally? I mean other than to upset your
sensibilities, or offend [insert favored diety here]?
--
"In the arguments in favor of a declaration
of rights... one which has great weight with
me [is] the legal check which it puts into the
hands of the judiciary."
--Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:309
.
|
|
|
| User: "W. Syme" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
07 Aug 2004 12:05:43 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 21:48:30 GMT, "Light Templar"
<I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> wrote:
While Gactimus was contemplating his or her navel in
news:4a48d0ce8b0c14c2e51bac4c51abbc91@news.bubbanews.com,
<gactimus@xrs.net> he or she gave us all a good laugh with the following...
"New10." <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote in
news:q1CQc.97$aB1.13@twister.socal.rr.com:
There are certain emotionally charged issues that should NOT be put
to the vote. Issues that is private and personal. Abortion,
euthanasia, and homosexual marriage
Homosexual marriage, abortion, and euthanasia are not private and
personal.
How do they effect you personally? I mean other than to upset your
sensibilities, or offend [insert favored diety here]?
Expect a deep, deep silence. Behind all the arguments that the bigots
are making up to make their positions sound less absurd, is the real
reason, and that is "eugh we don't know it and it's scary".
--
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
W. Syme (pseudonym), European, non-native English speaker, "soft" atheist.
Email will not be read.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Peter Eng" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
08 Aug 2004 08:22:05 PM |
|
|
"New10." <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:q1CQc.97$aB1.13@twister.socal.rr.com...
There are certain emotionally charged issues that should NOT be put to the
vote. Issues that is private and personal. Abortion, euthanasia, and
homosexual marriage
New10.
And issues as emotionally charged as this shouldn't be crossposted so wildly
unless somebody is looking to start a flamewar.
Peter Eng
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "jaonajames" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
08 Aug 2004 04:48:02 AM |
|
|
"New10." <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote in message news:<q1CQc.97$aB1.13@twister.socal.rr.com>...
There are certain emotionally charged issues that should NOT be put to the
vote. Issues that is private and personal. Abortion, euthanasia, and
homosexual marriage
New10.
funny *****, no simply let homos sneak around and convince judges to do
what they want and not what the majority wants.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Sebree" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
08 Aug 2004 11:16:47 AM |
|
|
(jaonajames) wrote in message news:<3ac05dac.0408080148.2bd18d09@posting.google.com>...
"New10." <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote in message news:<q1CQc.97$aB1.13@twister.socal.rr.com>...
There are certain emotionally charged issues that should NOT be put to the
vote. Issues that is private and personal. Abortion, euthanasia, and
homosexual marriage
New10.
funny *****, no simply let homos sneak around and convince judges to do
what they want and not what the majority wants.
When it comes to equal rights for all, the majority has no say in the
matter. The rights of the individual hold sway in cases of
discrimination and unequal treatment under the law.
This policy is to prevent the tyranny of the majority from trampling
the rights of any minority.
So, can you give one GOOD reason why homosexuals should not be able to
marry the consenting adult of their choice, and enjoy the same rights
as heterosexuals?
And before you start in on "tradition", there is actually a long
tradition of homosexuals being about to be married. This is true in
many cultures throughout history. And the Catholic Church has a pair
of homosexual saints, Saint Serge and Saint Bacchus, that are invoked
when the Church has TRADITIONALLY performed homosexual weddings. The
ceremony was called in the liturgy "Office of Same Sex Unions" or the
"Order of Uniting Two Men", depending on the century and location.
So again, why should homosexual be forbidden to marry? Your religious
beliefs are invalid, since the First Amendment forbids you from
forcing anyone to accept or follow your personal religous beliefs.
Your prejudice and bigotry are invalid, since no one is required to
accept your personal opinions about how they should act.
And be sure to back up your reasons with impartial, scientific facts.
Mark Sebree
.
|
|
|
| User: "Brent Norman" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
08 Aug 2004 12:30:15 PM |
|
|
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0408080816.6b8db964@posting.google.com...
jaonajames@yahoo.com (jaonajames) wrote in message
news:<3ac05dac.0408080148.2bd18d09@posting.google.com>...
"New10." <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<q1CQc.97$aB1.13@twister.socal.rr.com>...
There are certain emotionally charged issues that should NOT be put to
the
vote. Issues that is private and personal. Abortion, euthanasia, and
homosexual marriage
New10.
funny *****, no simply let homos sneak around and convince judges to do
what they want and not what the majority wants.
When it comes to equal rights for all, the majority has no say in the
matter. The rights of the individual hold sway in cases of
discrimination and unequal treatment under the law.
This policy is to prevent the tyranny of the majority from trampling
the rights of any minority.
Exactly. Ten wolves and two sheep don't sit down at a table to vote on what
to eat.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Matty" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
08 Aug 2004 09:24:22 PM |
|
|
On 9/8/04 3:30 AM, in article
HqtRc.1563576$Ar.1252311@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com, "Brent
Norman" <nelliganemile@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0408080816.6b8db964@posting.google.com...
jaonajames@yahoo.com (jaonajames) wrote in message
news:<3ac05dac.0408080148.2bd18d09@posting.google.com>...
"New10." <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<q1CQc.97$aB1.13@twister.socal.rr.com>...
There are certain emotionally charged issues that should NOT be put to
the
vote. Issues that is private and personal. Abortion, euthanasia, and
homosexual marriage
New10.
funny *****, no simply let homos sneak around and convince judges to do
what they want and not what the majority wants.
When it comes to equal rights for all, the majority has no say in the
matter. The rights of the individual hold sway in cases of
discrimination and unequal treatment under the law.
This policy is to prevent the tyranny of the majority from trampling
the rights of any minority.
Exactly. Ten wolves and two sheep don't sit down at a table to vote on what
to eat.
Reminds me of the movie "finding nemo" with the vegetarian sharks ;-)
Matty
--
My Blog: http://kaiwai.blogspot.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "maf & dog, inc. " |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
08 Aug 2004 12:49:49 PM |
|
|
On 8 Aug 2004 09:16:47 -0700, (Mark Sebree)
wrote:
The
ceremony was called in the liturgy "Office of Same Sex Unions" or the
"Order of Uniting Two Men", depending on the century and location.
(The following cite was once used to *****-slap a rather rude and
ignorant godbot who insisted that the Vatican had no such knowledge of
the OoSSU. Any remaining snottiness is unintentional)
The RCC practiced same-sex unions through the 1800's, using a rite
called the Office of Same-Sex Union.
The text for this is available in several formats, all either under
Vatican auspices or published by approved Vatican sources.
The original document can be found in the Vatican archives, under
"Vaticanus Graecus." The specific passages are located in folios
52-54. (That means you look under the letter V)
Canart's translation in his volume (Codeces Vaticani graeci, 1970,
Vatican City Press, ISBN 88-210-0493-7 ) is on page 186.
Canart's book, both the 1970 and the later 1979 editions, can be found
in the General Collection (Coll.Gen.I.45(284).Cons.) and the
Salacons.Mss.Rosso.547.Cons., both in the Vatican library.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Matthew Russotto" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
06 Aug 2004 03:03:09 PM |
|
|
In article <q1CQc.97$aB1.13@twister.socal.rr.com>,
New10. <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote:
There are certain emotionally charged issues that should NOT be put to the
vote. Issues that is private and personal. Abortion, euthanasia, and
homosexual marriage
Neither euthanasia nor homosexual marriage are private and personal.
Homosexual marriage isn't even private; marriage in that sense is a
public act. And the argument over abortion turns on the question of
how private and personal it is.
.
|
|
|
| User: "kathryn" |
|
| Title: Re: Oregon and Gay Marriage |
08 Aug 2004 03:04:06 PM |
|
|
"Matthew Russotto" <russotto@grace.speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:oI6dnV5jx5Ngfo7cRVn-rw@speakeasy.net...
In article <q1CQc.97$aB1.13@twister.socal.rr.com>,
New10. <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote:
There are certain emotionally charged issues that should NOT be put to
the
vote. Issues that is private and personal. Abortion, euthanasia, and
homosexual marriage
Neither euthanasia nor homosexual marriage are private and personal.
Homosexual marriage isn't even private; marriage in that sense is a
public act. And the argument over abortion turns on the question of
how private and personal it is.
It's bugger all to do with you who I marry or if I have an abortion.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
