Science > Abortion > Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Steenkin Man" |
| Date: |
28 Jun 2004 02:35:38 AM |
| Object: |
Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
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| User: "Pastor Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 02:40:29 PM |
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"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de...
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
## Pictures of animal fetuses do the same thing - amazing isn't it?
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
## And yet baby animals make similar smiling facial motions, especially the
apes and chimps.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
## Has he photographed/filmed the animals doing the same things yet?
FP..............
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 06:18:31 AM |
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
.
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| User: "Pastor Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 02:42:49 PM |
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"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:cjvvd0de36hu436idk034v5bl8rdfv04kb@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
==================================
What SM is describing is nothing new. I saw shows on TV years ago on this
fetus random muscle activity. It's also observed in animals and is not
unique to human fetuses.
FP.....
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 03:16:23 PM |
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:42:49 -0500, "Pastor Flower Power"
<LiberatedWomen@Freedoms.house> in alt.abortion with message-id
<0s-dna8YAqoi6X3dRVn-jw@heartoftn.net> wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:cjvvd0de36hu436idk034v5bl8rdfv04kb@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
==================================
What SM is describing is nothing new. I saw shows on TV years ago on this
fetus random muscle activity. It's also observed in animals and is not
unique to human fetuses.
FP.....
What is really going to be hysterical is when these people realize
that if the activities of a fetus actually indicate awareness and a
level of rational consciousness those same types of activity in other
animals will indicate the same thing.
Do they realize they are proving animals are rational beings and not
just 'dumb animals' as their religion says?
.
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| User: "Saint Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 02:00:35 AM |
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"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:gvu0e05ok0m99m6ta1a0nac950altkvous@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:42:49 -0500, "Pastor Flower Power"
<LiberatedWomen@Freedoms.house> in alt.abortion with message-id
<0s-dna8YAqoi6X3dRVn-jw@heartoftn.net> wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:cjvvd0de36hu436idk034v5bl8rdfv04kb@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
==================================
What SM is describing is nothing new. I saw shows on TV years ago on
this
fetus random muscle activity. It's also observed in animals and is not
unique to human fetuses.
FP.....
What is really going to be hysterical is when these people realize
that if the activities of a fetus actually indicate awareness and a
level of rational consciousness those same types of activity in other
animals will indicate the same thing.
Do they realize they are proving animals are rational beings and not
just 'dumb animals' as their religion says?
================================
Oh, then they'll all start screaming it's nothing but "random muscle
activity" where the animals are concerned - but rational thought and
deliberate movement in humans. They believe we're a "special creation" of
their god and not animals/mammals.
--
FP....
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived."
-= Isaac Asimov =-
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 05:31:05 AM |
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On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 02:00:35 -0500, "Saint Flower Power"
<LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<qvadnaW9lsULjnzdRVn-vg@heartoftn.net> wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:gvu0e05ok0m99m6ta1a0nac950altkvous@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:42:49 -0500, "Pastor Flower Power"
<LiberatedWomen@Freedoms.house> in alt.abortion with message-id
<0s-dna8YAqoi6X3dRVn-jw@heartoftn.net> wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:cjvvd0de36hu436idk034v5bl8rdfv04kb@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
==================================
What SM is describing is nothing new. I saw shows on TV years ago on
this
fetus random muscle activity. It's also observed in animals and is not
unique to human fetuses.
FP.....
What is really going to be hysterical is when these people realize
that if the activities of a fetus actually indicate awareness and a
level of rational consciousness those same types of activity in other
animals will indicate the same thing.
Do they realize they are proving animals are rational beings and not
just 'dumb animals' as their religion says?
================================
Oh, then they'll all start screaming it's nothing but "random muscle
activity" where the animals are concerned - but rational thought and
deliberate movement in humans.
I would suggest they be requested to prove it but since proof is
repugnant to anything with a religious connotation I suspect I would
receive either no answer or some very convoluted exercises in what
passes for logic.
I wonder - If I got a minister's certificate from one of those
internet sites and thus was able to present a validly religious aspect
to my comments would I receive more meaningful responses?
They believe we're a "special creation" of
their god and not animals/mammals.
They probably hide under their beds when it thunders too.
.
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| User: "Flower Power DePastor" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
01 Jul 2004 03:34:05 PM |
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"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:grg2e0l6fej7kvo41jncecs21h6kkh8ffm@4ax.com...
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 02:00:35 -0500, "Saint Flower Power"
<LiberatedLadies@Freedom.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
Oh, then they'll all start screaming it's nothing but "random muscle
activity" where the animals are concerned - but rational thought and
deliberate movement in humans.
-------------------------
I would suggest they be requested to prove it but since proof is
repugnant to anything with a religious connotation I suspect I would
receive either no answer or some very convoluted exercises in what
passes for logic.
## I see little logic in many of the anti-choicer's replies here. One
numb-nuts claimed newborns don't smile because of the trip down the birth
canal. I almost fell out of my chair laughing! He doesn't realize the
vagina is soft, warm, slippery and stretchy - hardly a horrifying and
traumatic experience for most infants. If they can *think* as he claims,
they'd be thrilled to realize they survived (from conception) and are now
safely out in the world. They'd be so joyful they wouldn't stop smiling for
a month. He also forgot all those born by cesarean! :-) Such is the mind
and thinking of the anti-choicers.
I wonder - If I got a minister's certificate from one of those
internet sites and thus was able to present a validly religious aspect
to my comments would I receive more meaningful responses?
## I got one from a Matchbox cover for $1.00 tax included. :-)
They believe we're a "special creation" of
their god and not animals/mammals.
They probably hide under their beds when it thunders too.
## Nope,... that's where Satan and his bad boys are......
--
BTW,.... I'm PRO-CHOICE! :-)
Flower Power...
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Pro-Choice
~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~<~~~{@ ~~~<~~~{@
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking,
which leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy."
-- Robert Anton Wilson
.
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| User: "Chris" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 11:33:15 AM |
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"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:cjvvd0de36hu436idk034v5bl8rdfv04kb@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Like every time you speak?
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 03:08:03 PM |
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:33:15 -0700, "Chris" <reddd@juno.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id <uMXDc.16461$6r1.10749@fed1read06> wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:cjvvd0de36hu436idk034v5bl8rdfv04kb@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Like every time you speak?
The peanut gallery speaks again.
.
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 06:39:58 AM |
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:18:31 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
See Professor Campbell's films of unborn babies at:
http://www.createhealth.org/p_gall.html#
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
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| User: "Pastor Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 02:45:11 PM |
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"Steenkin Man" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2kaed5F184uncU1@uni-berlin.de...
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
See Professor Campbell's films of unborn babies at:
http://www.createhealth.org/p_gall.html#
===================================
No one denies fetuses of humans and animals yawn, stretch, blink and make
movements. What makes you think this is NEW? Even baby calves make
*smiling* type facial movements as do pups and kittens - so?
FP...........
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 10:27:29 AM |
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In talk.abortion, Steenkin Man
<me@privacy.net>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:39:58 +0100
<2kaed5F184uncU1@uni-berlin.de>:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:18:31 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
See Professor Campbell's films of unborn babies at:
http://www.createhealth.org/p_gall.html#
So how does this relate to the legality of abortion?
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
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| User: "Pastor Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 02:47:41 PM |
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"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in
message news:gbm5r1-tdd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
In talk.abortion, Steenkin Man
<me@privacy.net>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:39:58 +0100
<2kaed5F184uncU1@uni-berlin.de>:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:18:31 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
See Professor Campbell's films of unborn babies at:
http://www.createhealth.org/p_gall.html#
So how does this relate to the legality of abortion?
========================================
SM thinks he'll stop women from aborting if they knew about these random
muscular movements of fetuses. Note he doesn't mention all animals have
very similar movements prior to birth.
FP...........
.
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| User: "EvilZak" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 12:41:53 PM |
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"Pastor Flower Power" <LiberatedWomen@Freedoms.house> wrote in message news:<4Lidnc8UHsV96H3dRVn-jg@heartoftn.net>...
SM thinks he'll stop women from aborting if they knew about these random
muscular movements of fetuses. Note he doesn't mention all animals have
very similar movements prior to birth.
Magnified films of insects can show them moving their limbs in vaguely
human gestures, or can make it appear that they have differing facial
expressions. DOesn't stop people from swatting flies and there is no
reason why it should.
Having seen my own fetus at 11 weeks gestation wave its arms and legs
about and scratch its nose, I'm quite aware that they move within the
womb. I'm also quite aware that, when I saw that picture on screen,
its hold on life was still tenuous, its brain not capable of any real
cognitive process - and it was slightly smaller, in reality, than a
kidney bean.
.
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| User: "Somesappywriter" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 02:49:52 PM |
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:47:41 -0500, "Pastor Flower Power"
<LiberatedWomen@Freedoms.house> wrote:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in
message news:gbm5r1-tdd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
In talk.abortion, Steenkin Man
<me@privacy.net>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:39:58 +0100
<2kaed5F184uncU1@uni-berlin.de>:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:18:31 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
See Professor Campbell's films of unborn babies at:
http://www.createhealth.org/p_gall.html#
So how does this relate to the legality of abortion?
========================================
SM thinks he'll stop women from aborting if they knew about these random
muscular movements of fetuses. Note he doesn't mention all animals have
very similar movements prior to birth.
FP...........
Pastor Flower Power?
.
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| User: "Saint Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 01:56:32 AM |
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"Somesappywriter" <sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote in message
news:lit0e0tffdjco187337fltcv0ifk6c65m6@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:47:41 -0500, "Pastor Flower Power"
<LiberatedWomen@Freedoms.house> wrote:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in
message news:gbm5r1-tdd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
In talk.abortion, Steenkin Man
<me@privacy.net>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:39:58 +0100
<2kaed5F184uncU1@uni-berlin.de>:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:18:31 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now>
wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
See Professor Campbell's films of unborn babies at:
http://www.createhealth.org/p_gall.html#
So how does this relate to the legality of abortion?
========================================
SM thinks he'll stop women from aborting if they knew about these random
muscular movements of fetuses. Note he doesn't mention all animals have
very similar movements prior to birth.
FP...........
Pastor Flower Power?
=========================
Yes. I've been PASTEURIZED. Or is that PASTORIZED? :-)
FP.........
.
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| User: "Steenkin Man" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 03:27:45 PM |
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:49:52 -0400, Somesappywriter
<sappywriter@poetic.com> wrote:
Pastor Flower Power?
She's past 'er best.
--
num tibi mentireris?
.
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| User: "Chris" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 11:32:41 AM |
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"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in
message news:gbm5r1-tdd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
In talk.abortion, Steenkin Man
<me@privacy.net>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:39:58 +0100
<2kaed5F184uncU1@uni-berlin.de>:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:18:31 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
See Professor Campbell's films of unborn babies at:
http://www.createhealth.org/p_gall.html#
So how does this relate to the legality of abortion?
I couldn't say. Is the topic about the legality of abortion?
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
|
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 11:01:46 PM |
|
|
In talk.abortion, Chris
<reddd@juno.com>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:32:41 -0700
<YLXDc.16456$6r1.3006@fed1read06>:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in
message news:gbm5r1-tdd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
In talk.abortion, Steenkin Man
<me@privacy.net>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:39:58 +0100
<2kaed5F184uncU1@uni-berlin.de>:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:18:31 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
See Professor Campbell's films of unborn babies at:
http://www.createhealth.org/p_gall.html#
So how does this relate to the legality of abortion?
I couldn't say. Is the topic about the legality of abortion?
Well, here's the logic chain as I see it.
[1] Unborn babies have human characteristics: they yawn, blink,
suck their thumbs, grasp onto surgeon's fingers who just
saved their life, scream silently, etc.
[2] Therefore, they are human beings.
[3] Therefore, they are worth protecting.
[4] Therefore, a woman who contemplates killing one is chargeable
with a conspiracy to murder and should be locked up until
the babe is born.
Or something like that. :-)
Of course, there are many other things that have human characteristics
(Asimo the robot, for one; he can walk). And all living animals
past a certain size have a heartbeat. Become a vegetarian today!
Bessie will thank you. Oh, wait, she doesn't count as she's not
human? I see. Interesting complexities abound here.
This isn't exactly the strongest of chains.
[.sigsnip]
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 05:24:03 AM |
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On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 04:01:46 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> in alt.abortion with message-id
<1e17r1-otd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:
In talk.abortion, Chris
<reddd@juno.com>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:32:41 -0700
<YLXDc.16456$6r1.3006@fed1read06>:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in
message news:gbm5r1-tdd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
In talk.abortion, Steenkin Man
<me@privacy.net>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:39:58 +0100
<2kaed5F184uncU1@uni-berlin.de>:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:18:31 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
See Professor Campbell's films of unborn babies at:
http://www.createhealth.org/p_gall.html#
So how does this relate to the legality of abortion?
I couldn't say. Is the topic about the legality of abortion?
Well, here's the logic chain as I see it.
[1] Unborn babies have human characteristics: they yawn, blink,
suck their thumbs, grasp onto surgeon's fingers who just
saved their life, scream silently, etc.
So do other primates.
[2] Therefore, they are human beings.
Therefore all primates are human beings.
[3] Therefore, they are worth protecting.
Please provide a reference for this. Be specific.
[4] Therefore, a woman who contemplates killing one is chargeable
with a conspiracy to murder and should be locked up until
the babe is born.
Since abortion is legal no murder is possible. Even when abortion was
illegal it was not considered murder.
Or something like that. :-)
Or nothing like that.
Of course, there are many other things that have human characteristics
(Asimo the robot, for one; he can walk).
What do you consider human characteristics? Most animals are mobile
and most can communicate in some fashion.
And all living animals
past a certain size have a heartbeat.
Size is irrelevant. A circulatory system, however, is not.
Become a vegetarian today!
No thanks. I prefer my food dead rather than still alive.
Bessie will thank you. Oh, wait, she doesn't count as she's not
human? I see. Interesting complexities abound here.
This isn't exactly the strongest of chains.
True.
[.sigsnip]
.
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
|
| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 11:00:47 AM |
|
|
In talk.abortion, Attila
<prochoice@here.now>
wrote
on Tue, 29 Jun 2004 06:24:03 -0400
<6ig2e0ttvbnd07v8ogrm19huol03mlfc7u@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 04:01:46 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> in alt.abortion with message-id
<1e17r1-otd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:
In talk.abortion, Chris
<reddd@juno.com>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:32:41 -0700
<YLXDc.16456$6r1.3006@fed1read06>:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in
message news:gbm5r1-tdd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
In talk.abortion, Steenkin Man
<me@privacy.net>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:39:58 +0100
<2kaed5F184uncU1@uni-berlin.de>:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:18:31 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
See Professor Campbell's films of unborn babies at:
http://www.createhealth.org/p_gall.html#
So how does this relate to the legality of abortion?
I couldn't say. Is the topic about the legality of abortion?
Well, here's the logic chain as I see it.
[1] Unborn babies have human characteristics: they yawn, blink,
suck their thumbs, grasp onto surgeon's fingers who just
saved their life, scream silently, etc.
So do other primates.
An interesting comparison involves looking at the foetii of (IIRC)
a human being, a gorilla, a dog, and a bird. Up to a certain
point they were nearly indistinguishable.
[2] Therefore, they are human beings.
Therefore all primates are human beings.
The sound you hear is that of a logic chain cracking... :-)
[3] Therefore, they are worth protecting.
Please provide a reference for this. Be specific.
This is one of the reasons why it's called a missing link.
[4] Therefore, a woman who contemplates killing one is chargeable
with a conspiracy to murder and should be locked up until
the babe is born.
Since abortion is legal no murder is possible. Even when abortion was
illegal it was not considered murder.
Or something like that. :-)
Or nothing like that.
Well, this logic chain is actually made of straw. I'll admit I
have no idea what logic the pro-lifers generally use. (I'm not
sure if what they use is called logic, either... :-) )
Of course, there are many other things that have human characteristics
(Asimo the robot, for one; he can walk).
What do you consider human characteristics? Most animals are mobile
and most can communicate in some fashion.
That's a darned good question. Of course communication is primarily
verbal or "scental" in the case of animals -- and even humans are
reputed to have pheromones; I'll admit I'd have to look up the details.
(No, I'm not going to follow the spam links.)
Humans are unique (AFAIK!) in that we can write, even if that writing
is simply painting on cave walls (or the modern equivalent: tagging
buildings). But one has to start somewhere.
And all living animals
past a certain size have a heartbeat.
Size is irrelevant. A circulatory system, however, is not.
Become a vegetarian today!
No thanks. I prefer my food dead rather than still alive.
Ditto. Not that carrots put up that much of a fight. :-)
(_Lost In Space_ episodes notwithstanding.)
Bessie will thank you. Oh, wait, she doesn't count as she's not
human? I see. Interesting complexities abound here.
This isn't exactly the strongest of chains.
True.
[.sigsnip]
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
|
|
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| User: "Sylvester" |
|
| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 11:25:04 AM |
|
|
Well, this logic chain is actually made of straw. I'll admit I
have no idea what logic the pro-lifers generally use. (I'm not
sure if what they use is called logic, either... :-) )
Less harm to society as a whole.
.
|
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| User: "Attila" |
|
| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 02:04:09 PM |
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On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:25:04 GMT, Sylvester <Kittylitter@stinky.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<as53e052u7viqi15fvppcdctneheh6nfvo@4ax.com> wrote:
Well, this logic chain is actually made of straw. I'll admit I
have no idea what logic the pro-lifers generally use. (I'm not
sure if what they use is called logic, either... :-) )
Less harm to society as a whole.
How?
.
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|
|
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| User: "Attila" |
|
| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 02:03:46 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:00:47 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> in alt.abortion with message-id
<s188r1-bde.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:
An interesting comparison involves looking at the foetii of (IIRC)
a human being, a gorilla, a dog, and a bird. Up to a certain
point they were nearly indistinguishable.
Doesn't a human fetus have gills and a tail at some stage of
development? I could be wrong about the gills.
[2] Therefore, they are human beings.
Therefore all primates are human beings.
The sound you hear is that of a logic chain cracking... :-)
That happens here a lot.
[3] Therefore, they are worth protecting.
Please provide a reference for this. Be specific.
This is one of the reasons why it's called a missing link.
[4] Therefore, a woman who contemplates killing one is chargeable
with a conspiracy to murder and should be locked up until
the babe is born.
Since abortion is legal no murder is possible. Even when abortion was
illegal it was not considered murder.
Or something like that. :-)
Or nothing like that.
Well, this logic chain is actually made of straw. I'll admit I
have no idea what logic the pro-lifers generally use. (I'm not
sure if what they use is called logic, either... :-) )
That happens here a lot too.
Of course, there are many other things that have human characteristics
(Asimo the robot, for one; he can walk).
What do you consider human characteristics? Most animals are mobile
and most can communicate in some fashion.
That's a darned good question. Of course communication is primarily
verbal or "scental" in the case of animals -- and even humans are
reputed to have pheromones; I'll admit I'd have to look up the details.
(No, I'm not going to follow the spam links.)
The best place to start would probably to determine just what is
communication.
Humans are unique (AFAIK!) in that we can write, even if that writing
is simply painting on cave walls (or the modern equivalent: tagging
buildings). But one has to start somewhere.
The most striking difference is that humans can reason on an abstract
level. Since an animal that could not do that would be able to
comprehend what humans are doing it makes you wonder if something is
all around us but cannot be recognized by us for what it is because we
cannot comprehend what they are doing?
And all living animals
past a certain size have a heartbeat.
Size is irrelevant. A circulatory system, however, is not.
Become a vegetarian today!
No thanks. I prefer my food dead rather than still alive.
Ditto. Not that carrots put up that much of a fight. :-)
(_Lost In Space_ episodes notwithstanding.)
True, but if you plant it rather than eat it then it will grow and
thus it is still alive. When you bite it does it scream?
.
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| User: "Mother Flower Power" |
|
| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 04:22:06 PM |
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|
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:7qe3e0dee8fr59ic0o456tnb9rs9bs0e8t@4ax.com...
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:00:47 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> in alt.abortion with message-id
<s188r1-bde.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:
An interesting comparison involves looking at the foetii of (IIRC)
a human being, a gorilla, a dog, and a bird. Up to a certain
point they were nearly indistinguishable.
Doesn't a human fetus have gills and a tail at some stage of
development? I could be wrong about the gills.
$$ Yes. That's also the stage when many women abort. They're hardly babies
jumping for joy, singling "Auld Lang Zyne" and walking around the uterus as
some anti-choicers would have you believe.
The best place to start would probably to determine just what is
communication.
$$ Zygotes/fetuses don't communicate since they would have no concept of
what that means.
True, but if you plant it rather than eat it then it will grow and
thus it is still alive. When you bite it does it scream?
$$ Yes, it's called "the silent scream" so don't eat any more fruit and
veggies.
FP........
.
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| User: "Robert B. Winn" |
|
| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 08:55:28 AM |
|
|
The Ghost In The Machine <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in message news:<1e17r1-otd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net>...
In talk.abortion, Chris
<reddd@juno.com>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:32:41 -0700
<YLXDc.16456$6r1.3006@fed1read06>:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in
message news:gbm5r1-tdd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net...
In talk.abortion, Steenkin Man
<me@privacy.net>
wrote
on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:39:58 +0100
<2kaed5F184uncU1@uni-berlin.de>:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:18:31 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
See Professor Campbell's films of unborn babies at:
http://www.createhealth.org/p_gall.html#
So how does this relate to the legality of abortion?
I couldn't say. Is the topic about the legality of abortion?
Well, here's the logic chain as I see it.
[1] Unborn babies have human characteristics: they yawn, blink,
suck their thumbs, grasp onto surgeon's fingers who just
saved their life, scream silently, etc.
[2] Therefore, they are human beings.
[3] Therefore, they are worth protecting.
[4] Therefore, a woman who contemplates killing one is chargeable
with a conspiracy to murder and should be locked up until
the babe is born.
Or something like that. :-)
Of course, there are many other things that have human characteristics
(Asimo the robot, for one; he can walk). And all living animals
past a certain size have a heartbeat. Become a vegetarian today!
Bessie will thank you. Oh, wait, she doesn't count as she's not
human? I see. Interesting complexities abound here.
This isn't exactly the strongest of chains.
[.sigsnip]
Killing a baby is an inhuman act. People who kill babies tend to have
inhuman thoughts.
Robert b. winn
.
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| User: "Mother Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
29 Jun 2004 04:15:48 PM |
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"Robert B. Winn" <rbwinn47@mybluelight.com> wrote in message
news:7943568.0406290555.50ae2f40@posting.google.com...
Killing a baby is an inhuman act.
** And yet mothers kill them all the time just like Susan Smith drowned her
two unwanted children. Unwanted children don't fare too well in our
society. Many are killed by the woman's boyfriends - very common where I
live here in the south. They usually beat them to death after months of
abuse. Many are sexually abused.
People who kill babies tend to have
inhuman thoughts.
Robert b. winn
** You'd have to ask Mrs. Smith about that - or the boyfriends who beat
their lover's children to death.
--
FPower.......
But look what your Jehovah god said in his bible:
Psalm 137:9
"Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the
stones." (Infanticide approved by god)
======================================
.
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| User: "Bobs Boyfriend" |
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| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 08:01:21 PM |
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In article <gbm5r1-tdd.ln1@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net>,
The Ghost In The Machine <ewill@aurigae.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:
So how does this relate to the legality of abortion?
How your career as a an employee in a corrections institutiion relates
to abortion is also on my mind.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
|
| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 07:15:01 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:39:58 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2kaed5F184uncU1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:18:31 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:35:38 +0100, Steenkin Man <me@privacy.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id <2ka030F17sgh6U1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
Learn 'random muscle activity'.
Learn not to argue with an internationally renowned professor of
obstetrics when you aren't qualified to use sticking plaster.
I suspect he has learned more and more about less and less until he
knows everything about nothing at all and thus considers himself an
expert.
.
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| User: "Bob" |
|
| Title: Re: Pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just 8 weeks |
28 Jun 2004 09:08:30 AM |
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Steenkin Man wrote:
The ultra-sound scanning techniques capture images which show the
foetuses yawn, blink, suck their fingers and seem to cry and smile.
Up to now, doctors did not think infants made such expressions until
after birth and believed they learned to smile by copying their
mother.
The procedure has been pioneered by London obstetrician Professor
Stuart Campbell at the Create Health Centre for Reproduction and
Advanced Technology.
His pictures reveal foetuses moving their limbs at just eight weeks.
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,15410-12773312,00.html
It's time to negotiate a truce in the abortion wars. Let any woman who
believes in abortion abort FEMALE children, and let men who oppose the
killing of our children put a stop to aborting of boy children.
Bob
--
When did we divide into sides?
"As president, I will put American government and our legal system back
on the side of women." John Kerry, misandrist Democratic candidate for
President. http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/women/
[Bob does not advocate any illegal, seditious, or immoral acts. All
posts are for discussion, rhetorical, or humorous purposes only.]
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