On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:06:37 -0400, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
wrote:

"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:95oke1lu872sqpot433sd8eor9r4n44fgk@4ax.com...

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 08:48:45 -0400, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<EzpGe.13043$G71.5330@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:

Where in any of that did it say that a human fetus is NOT a person?

If you expect a response include the referenced text.
You find more ways to be a fool every day.

You have the option of not replying to my posts.

That option extends to you, too.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 08:48:45 -0400, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<EzpGe.13043$G71.5330@bignews3.bellsouth.net> wrote:

Where in any of that did it say that a human fetus is NOT a person?

If you expect a response include the referenced text.

You find more ways to be a fool every day.

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:29:16 -0400, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
wrote:


[...]

Check out Pat Winstanely's list of compiled definitions of human
being:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[...]

From: Pat Winstanley <wallopcods2...@yahoo.co.uk>
Newsgroups: alt.abortion
Subject: Re: Pat Winstanley needs a refresher
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 05:53:33 +0100

[...]

Message-ID: <MPG.19882528865c655798a50d@News.CIS.DFN.DE>

[...]

In article <6570-3F1C5F48-...@storefull-2113.public.lawson.webtv.net>,

Subject: Re: KrAzY k needs a refresher
From:

You appear to be the one who is confused.

Perhaps the following will help (assuming you have the comprehension
to
take it in...):

Last updated Dec21 2002

Definitions of 'human being' and/or 'person' and related definitions:

(Many thanks to the various people who have helped and are helping to
contribute to this list by passing on definitions of "human being" and
"person" etc when found in their browsing of the laws of various
places
in the world.)

=======================================================================
Using Indiana State Law, here is the proof that abortion is
not murder.

[link to Indiana Legal Code:
http://www.state.in.us/legislative/ic/code/]

IC 35-42-1-1
Murder
Sec. 1. A person who:
(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit
arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal
deviate conduct, kidnapping, rape, robbery, or carjacking;

(3) kills another human being while committing or attempting to
commit:
(A) dealing in or manufacturing cocaine, a narcotic drug, or
methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1);
(B) dealing in a schedule I, II, or III controlled substance (IC
35-48-4-2);
(C) dealing in a schedule IV controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-3); or
(D) dealing in a schedule V controlled substance; or

(4) knowingly or intentionally kills a fetus that has attained
viability
(as defined in IC 16-18-2-365); commits murder, a felony.


IC 35-42-1-0.5
Abortions exempt
Sec. 0.5. Sections 1, 3, and 4 of this chapter do not apply to an
abortion performed in compliance with:
(1) IC 16-34; or
(2) IC 35-1-58.5 (before its repeal).
As added by P.L.261-1997, SEC.2.

[Editor's note: This code specifically states that abortion is not
murder. Also, IC 16-34 is the laws that specifically deal with
abortion
in Indiana. The article is too extensive to warrant posting here, and
does not affect the discussion.]


IC 35-41-1-14
"Human being" defined
Sec. 14. "Human being" means an individual who has been born and is
alive.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.15.

[Editor's Note: Note that an embryo or fetus does not fulfill the
requirements for a human being. It has not been born. Since it is
not
a human being, it cannot be murdered.]


IC 35-41-1-22
"Person" defined
Sec. 22. (a) "Person" means a human being, corporation, limited
liability company, partnership, unincorporated association, or
governmental entity.
(b) "Person", for purposes of section 10.7 of this chapter, means an
adult or a minor.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.23. Amended by P.L.8-1993, SEC.509;
P.L.133-2002, SEC.64.

[Editor's Note: A fetus also does not qualify as a person by any
definitions.]


IC 16-18-2-365
Viability
Sec. 365. "Viability", for purposes of IC 16-34, means the ability of
a
fetus to live outside the mother's womb.
As added by P.L.2-1993, SEC.1.

[Editor's Note: Added for completeness. Nobody is talking about
abortion on demand in the third trimester, and most abortions done at
this time are done for reasons of death of the fetus, severe
developmental abnormality, or health of the woman.]


=======================================================================
USA - Ohio Revised Code §2105.14 (Added Oct 24 2002)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
§ 2105.14 Posthumous child to inherit.

Text of Statute

Descendants of an intestate begotten before his death, but born
thereafter, in all cases will inherit as if born in the lifetime of
the intestate and surviving him; but in no other case can a person
inherit unless living at the time of the death of the intestate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Edited comment from contributor]
The law does not give any legal rigths to the unborn.
What it gives is rights to the born that was conceived prior
to the death of the intestate. No birth, no inheritance.

================================================================
US - Federal (Added Oct 15 2002)

http://www.house.gov/judiciary/73696.pdf

The purpose of the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act is to protect
infants who are born alive by recognizing them as a person, human
being,
child or individual for purposes of Federal law.

This recognition would take effect upon the live birth of the infant
regardless of whether or not the child’s development is sufficient to
permit long-term survival and regardless of whether the baby survived
an
abortion.

The act also clarifies that nothing in the bill shall be construed to
affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal rights
applicable to any unborn child.

This is a bill of compassion, a bill that says all of America’s
children
are precious and should be protected.

It has long been an accepted legal principle that infants who are born
alive are persons
and are entitled to the protections of the law. A live birth is
considered
to occur whenever an infant is expelled from his or her mother’s
body and displays any of several specific signs of life: breathing,
heartbeat, or definite movements of voluntary muscles.


================================================================
Australia

http://notes.nt.gov.au/dcm/legislat/legislat.nsf/d989974724db65b1482561c
f0017cbd2/dbafb2130d99822e692568cd00090c69?OpenDocument

Division 3 - Homicide: Suicide: Concealment of Birth: Abortion

156. When a child becomes a human being
A child becomes a person capable of being killed when it has
completely
proceeded in a living state from the body of its mother, whether it
has
breathed or not and whether the umbilical cord is severed or not.

================================================================
Canada

http://www.webhart.net/vandee/prolife/history.shtml

(Hansard Extract)

Currently a human being is defined in section 223(1) of the Criminal
Code of Canada as follows:
A child becomes a human being within the meaning of this Act when it
has
completely proceeded, in a living state, from the body of its mother,
whether or not

(a) it has breathed,
(b) it has independent circulation, or
(c) the navel string is severed.

================================================================
America (New York - Title H)


http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=82&a=5

or

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=82

should get you there. The site is a little weirdly implemented.


S 125.05 Homicide, abortion and related offenses; definitions
of terms.
The following definitions are applicable to this article:
1. "Person," when referring to the victim of a homicide,
means a human being who has been born and is alive.

=======================================================================

America (Texas)


http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/petoc.html

the definition
of murder in §19.02 does not include abortion itself,
it merely defines murder as the death of an individual, given
certain criteria (e.g., §19.02(b)(1) states that he "intentionally
or knowingly causes the death" thereof).

Fortunately §1.07(a)(26) defines an individual:

(26) "Individual" means a human being who has been born and is alive.

========================================================================
=
USA (Indiana - IC 35-4-1)

(Note that Indiana is a very conservative state and very Republican.)


IC 35-41-1-14
Sec. 14. "Human being" means an individual who has been born and is
alive.

IC 35-41-1-22
Sec. 22. "Person" means a human being, corporation, limited liability
company, partnership, unincorporated association, or governmental
entity.

========================================================================
==
USA (Colorado 18-3-101)

http://64.78.178.12/cgi-dos/statdspp.exe?LNP&doc=18-3-101

As used in this part 1, unless the context otherwise requires:
(1) "Homicide" means the killing of a person by another.

(2) "Person", when referring to the victim of a homicide, means a
human being who had been born and was alive at the time of the
homicidal
act.



========================================================================
==


USA

http://www.mfhf.org/papers/new_99/abortion.html

In current United States law, at the moment of birth a biological
being becomes a human being. By contrast, in declaring in 1973 that
abortion is a permissible medical procedure, the U.S. Supreme Court
said, "The unborn have never been recognized in the law as persons in
the whole sense." (Hardin 1982:138) The transition to the status of
full humanity is viewed not as a biological fact, but as a legal or
cultural fact. There is a practical aspect pointed out by Retired
Supreme Court Justice Tom Clark: the moment of birth is known, but the
moment of conception is speculative. "...the law deals in reality not
obscurity--the known rather than the unknown. When sperm meets egg,
life
may eventually form, but quite often it does not. The law does not
deal
in speculation." (Swomley 1983:1)

================================================================
UK

http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~joash/homicide.htm

DISCUSSION POINT: What is a human being?

What do the Courts say about this?

The courts have asked this question in relation to the foetus and a
corpse. In this context the courts are very much guided by medical
opinion, and less by moral principles. The central question they ask
themselves is at what stage in the process of birth does a foetus
become
a person, and at what stage in the process of death does a person
become
a corpse. Essentially the courts have decided that foetuses and
corpses
are not persons.

=======================================================================
Germany

http://www.hull.ac.uk/php/lastcb/bgbengl.htm#§%201

And this position is not restricted to common-law countries.

§1 German Civil Code:

"Personhood of humans starts with the completion of the birth
process".

literally: "the ability to enjoy rights" (Rechtsfähigkeit)

=======================================================================

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://tinyurl.com/bqb8a

Where in any of that did it say that a human fetus is NOT a person?

The law should dictate when abortion is allowed.