Science > Abortion > Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
11 Dec 2005 05:32:19 PM |
| Object: |
Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
The good folks at Operation Rescue do have a valid point, these women are
already suffering emotional turmoil. These are not the times to be
influencing decisions of life or death.
http://www.operationrescue.org/?p=272#comments
Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane
Victims
Little Rock, AR - Abortionist Jerry Edwards of Little Rock, Arkansas, is
offering free abortions to victims of Hurricanes Rita and Katrina. This move
has stirred national controversy as pro-lifers expressed outrage that he
would prey upon vulnerable women dealing with the aftermath of two natural
disasters.
But Edwards is not new to controversy. He was the medical director and
primary abortionist for Planned Parenthood of Houston, TX from 1991-98. He
developed new techniques for killing children before six weeks gestation,
earlier than most abortionists are willing to kill for safety reasons. He
also was one of the first abortionists to jump onto the RU486 bandwagon, a
dangerous abortion drug responsible for at least four maternal deaths that
now carries new FDA warnings.
"Abortionist Edwards seems to enjoy child-killing to the extent that he is
willing to try new methods, in spite of the risks to women. One has to
wonder who he experimented on when developing his early abortion method and
what happened to those unfortunate women," said Operation Rescue
spokesperson Cheryl Sullenger.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 04:54:44 PM |
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"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in
news:OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com:
Subject: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions
to Hurricane Victims
If I were a woman I'd have one just to ***** you off.
--
Doc Smartass XP - New Interface, Same Old *****
Keep THOR in THURSDAY!
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| User: "Frank Arthur" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
11 Dec 2005 05:59:06 PM |
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1. You charge that doctors performing abortions and Planned Parenthood rakes
in big bucks.
2. When a doctor offers free abortions to Katrina victims through Planned
Parenthood you charge they are fiends doing experimental work on women.
You lie.
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
The good folks at Operation Rescue do have a valid point, these women are
already suffering emotional turmoil. These are not the times to be
influencing decisions of life or death.
http://www.operationrescue.org/?p=272#comments
Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane
Victims
Little Rock, AR - Abortionist Jerry Edwards of Little Rock, Arkansas, is
offering free abortions to victims of Hurricanes Rita and Katrina. This
move
has stirred national controversy as pro-lifers expressed outrage that he
would prey upon vulnerable women dealing with the aftermath of two natural
disasters.
But Edwards is not new to controversy. He was the medical director and
primary abortionist for Planned Parenthood of Houston, TX from 1991-98. He
developed new techniques for killing children before six weeks gestation,
earlier than most abortionists are willing to kill for safety reasons. He
also was one of the first abortionists to jump onto the RU486 bandwagon, a
dangerous abortion drug responsible for at least four maternal deaths that
now carries new FDA warnings.
"Abortionist Edwards seems to enjoy child-killing to the extent that he is
willing to try new methods, in spite of the risks to women. One has to
wonder who he experimented on when developing his early abortion method
and
what happened to those unfortunate women," said Operation Rescue
spokesperson Cheryl Sullenger.
.
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
11 Dec 2005 06:03:01 PM |
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"Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com> wrote in message
news:Q03nf.5545$Y72.3580@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
1. You charge that doctors performing abortions and Planned Parenthood
rakes in big bucks.
2. When a doctor offers free abortions to Katrina victims through Planned
Parenthood you charge they are fiends doing experimental work on women.
You lie.
You think the doctor won't receive compensation from PP?
What do you think PP does with the tax dollars they receive?
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
11 Dec 2005 11:31:12 PM |
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"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> writes:
"Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com> wrote in message
news:Q03nf.5545$Y72.3580@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
1. You charge that doctors performing abortions and Planned Parenthood
rakes in big bucks.
2. When a doctor offers free abortions to Katrina victims through Planned
Parenthood you charge they are fiends doing experimental work on women.
You lie.
You think the doctor won't receive compensation from PP?
Some MDs actually volunteer their services to PP on occasion.
What do you think PP does with the tax dollars they receive?
Quit bitching because a welfare leech named John D. Wentzky isn't getting any
of them.
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2005-06 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 4, Cleveland 1 (December 11)
NEXT GAME: Friday, December 16 vs. Peoria, 7:35
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| User: "Frank Arthur" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
11 Dec 2005 06:17:58 PM |
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"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:S43nf.73949$Y82.5743@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com> wrote in message
news:Q03nf.5545$Y72.3580@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
1. You charge that doctors performing abortions and Planned Parenthood
rakes in big bucks.
2. When a doctor offers free abortions to Katrina victims through Planned
Parenthood you charge they are fiends doing experimental work on women.
You lie.
You think the doctor won't receive compensation from PP?
What do you think PP does with the tax dollars they receive?
.
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| User: "Frank Arthur" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
11 Dec 2005 06:22:31 PM |
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"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:S43nf.73949$Y82.5743@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com> wrote in message
news:Q03nf.5545$Y72.3580@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
1. You charge that doctors performing abortions and Planned Parenthood
rakes in big bucks.
2. When a doctor offers free abortions to Katrina victims through Planned
Parenthood you charge they are fiends doing experimental work on women.
You lie.
You think the doctor won't receive compensation from PP?
What do you think PP does with the tax dollars they receive?
1. You made up the story about the doctor getting compensation from Planned
Parenthhod.
2. Do you know the difference between getting "compensation" and making
"big bucks".
3. Remember before Planned Parenthood when a women could not get any
information about birth control because it was withheld by powerful
Christian groups who said
only "the rythym system" is permitted.
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 07:37:04 AM |
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"Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com> wrote in message
news:Nm3nf.5568$Y72.532@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:S43nf.73949$Y82.5743@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com> wrote in message
news:Q03nf.5545$Y72.3580@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
1. You charge that doctors performing abortions and Planned Parenthood
rakes in big bucks.
2. When a doctor offers free abortions to Katrina victims through
Planned Parenthood you charge they are fiends doing experimental work on
women.
You lie.
You think the doctor won't receive compensation from PP?
What do you think PP does with the tax dollars they receive?
1. You made up the story about the doctor getting compensation from
Planned Parenthhod.
If he offers abortions through Planned Parenthood then I do not assume that
he is not being paid to perform abortions.
2. Do you know the difference between getting "compensation" and making
"big bucks".
Sure do. Did you ask him or PP how much he will receive to perform these
procedures?
3. Remember before Planned Parenthood when a women could not get any
information about birth control because it was withheld by powerful
Christian groups who said
only "the rythym system" is permitted.
You forgot about condoms?
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
16 Dec 2005 12:12:07 AM |
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:37:04 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
wrote:
"Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com> wrote in message
news:Nm3nf.5568$Y72.532@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:S43nf.73949$Y82.5743@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
"Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com> wrote in message
news:Q03nf.5545$Y72.3580@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
1. You charge that doctors performing abortions and Planned Parenthood
rakes in big bucks.
2. When a doctor offers free abortions to Katrina victims through
Planned Parenthood you charge they are fiends doing experimental work on
women.
You lie.
You think the doctor won't receive compensation from PP?
What do you think PP does with the tax dollars they receive?
1. You made up the story about the doctor getting compensation from
Planned Parenthhod.
If he offers abortions through Planned Parenthood then I do not assume that
he is not being paid to perform abortions.
2. Do you know the difference between getting "compensation" and making
"big bucks".
Sure do. Did you ask him or PP how much he will receive to perform these
procedures?
3. Remember before Planned Parenthood when a women could not get any
information about birth control because it was withheld by powerful
Christian groups who said
only "the rythym system" is permitted.
You forgot about condoms?
You forgot about Comstock.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
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| User: "Gaia" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
11 Dec 2005 11:41:12 PM |
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Johnny wrote:
"Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com> wrote in message
news:Q03nf.5545$Y72.3580@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
1. You charge that doctors performing abortions and Planned Parenthood
rakes in big bucks.
2. When a doctor offers free abortions to Katrina victims through Planned
Parenthood you charge they are fiends doing experimental work on women.
You lie.
You think the doctor won't receive compensation from PP?
What do you think PP does with the tax dollars they receive?
What's your issue with it, Welfare Leech? Heh.
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| User: "satyr" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
16 Dec 2005 12:08:16 AM |
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On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:03:01 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
wrote:
"Frank Arthur" <Art@Arthurian.com> wrote in message
news:Q03nf.5545$Y72.3580@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
1. You charge that doctors performing abortions and Planned Parenthood
rakes in big bucks.
2. When a doctor offers free abortions to Katrina victims through Planned
Parenthood you charge they are fiends doing experimental work on women.
You lie.
You think the doctor won't receive compensation from PP?
What do you think PP does with the tax dollars they receive?
Well, I know that they can't spend any Federal dollars on abortion.
It's called the Hyde Amendment.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab
.
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| User: "LC" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 09:02:28 AM |
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Fundamentally insane troll "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in
message news:OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
The good folks at Operation Rescue
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you
to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a
Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to
conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort
Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93
LC~ Looks like "J's" bifurcated mind can't stick to one story.
"I ain't a Jesus freak. I love porn stars!God bless them."
From: (Jon Young)
Message-ID: <25e1e54f.0404240901.7eb55105@posting.google.com>
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 09:52:12 AM |
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"LC" <LCisnot@this.com> wrote in message
news:dnk3e5020oo@enews2.newsguy.com...
Fundamentally insane troll "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in
message news:OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
The good folks at Operation Rescue
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you
to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a
Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to
conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort
Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93
Thank you for aiding the cause of Mr. Terry.
I am sure he isn't ashamed of that quote.
How many more recruits will he gain from posts that cite his words?
I think you do not understand how much people will take hold of such
language as Mr. Terry used there.
Maybe you are actually for him.
Thanks.
.
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 11:42:33 AM |
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"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> writes:
"LC" <LCisnot@this.com> wrote in message
news:dnk3e5020oo@enews2.newsguy.com...
Fundamentally insane troll "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in
message news:OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
The good folks at Operation Rescue
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you
to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a
Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to
conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort
Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93
Thank you for aiding the cause of Mr. Terry.
Randy Randall is quite effective at undoing his "cause", as the last dozen
years have demonstrated.
I am sure he isn't ashamed of that quote.
I'm sure he's too stupid to know enough to be ashamed.
How many more recruits will he gain from posts that cite his words?
The usual brain-damaged folks like you, and not much else.
I think you do not understand how much people will take hold of such
language as Mr. Terry used there.
You obviously don't, since he's been a running joke for years among normal
people.
Maybe you are actually for him.
Thanks.
Maybe you should put the crack pipe down. Thanks.
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2005-06 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 4, Cleveland 1 (December 11)
NEXT GAME: Friday, December 16 vs. Peoria, 7:35
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 12:36:46 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:52:12 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<M_gnf.51723$i7.43981@bignews2.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"LC" <LCisnot@this.com> wrote in message
news:dnk3e5020oo@enews2.newsguy.com...
Fundamentally insane troll "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in
message news:OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
The good folks at Operation Rescue
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you
to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a
Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to
conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort
Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93
Thank you for aiding the cause of Mr. Terry.
I am sure he isn't ashamed of that quote.
How many more recruits will he gain from posts that cite his words?
I think you do not understand how much people will take hold of such
language as Mr. Terry used there.
Maybe you are actually for him.
Thanks.
Don't dignify a nut like that by calling him 'Mr."
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| User: "Mephisto" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 11:56:18 AM |
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:52:12 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
wrote:
"LC" <LCisnot@this.com> wrote in message
news:dnk3e5020oo@enews2.newsguy.com...
Fundamentally insane troll "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in
message news:OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
The good folks at Operation Rescue
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you
to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a
Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to
conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort
Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93
Thank you for aiding the cause of Mr. Terry.
I am sure he isn't ashamed of that quote.
How many more recruits will he gain from posts that cite his words?
I think you do not understand how much people will take hold of such
language as Mr. Terry used there.
Maybe you are actually for him.
Thanks.
Anyone stupid enough to miss the staggering hypocrisy in that quote
was probably going to end up being a brainwashed fundie anyway. For
the rest of us, it's enlightening to see so-called Christians
preaching hatred and intolerance, and lying through their teeth to
further their own ambitions.
Mephisto
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| User: "LC" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 11:31:39 AM |
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The always entertaining, if rarely rational "Johnny"
<wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:M_gnf.51723$i7.43981@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
"LC" <LCisnot@this.com> wrote in message
news:dnk3e5020oo@enews2.newsguy.com...
Fundamentally insane troll "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in
message news:OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
The good folks at Operation Rescue
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you
to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a
Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to
conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want
pluralism."
--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort
Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93
Thank you for aiding the cause of Mr. Terry.
I am sure he isn't ashamed of that quote.
On that we agree.
Of course, he's almost as loony as you.
Almost.
How many more recruits will he gain from posts that cite his words?
I'd wager...none.
I think you do not understand how much people will take hold of such
language as Mr. Terry used there.
Some people value "hate" over "reason".
Like you, Randall Terry, and J "IBen" Young.
Maybe you are actually for him.
<snicker>
Thanks.
Always glad to point out the loons amongst us, as their words always give
'em away.
Y'know, like this:
"Your momma is/was a *****?
You are/were a pimp?
Who's your daddy?
I need some cash."~ Johnny "Pimp Daddy" Wentzky, rappin' his 'lil brainz out
in search of the elusive bling-bling.
Message-ID: <njPOd.10191$Se6.9878@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
LC~ Thanks Johnny for playing.
"Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments when he was merely
stupid."~ Heinrich Heine
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 03:44:57 PM |
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"LC" <LCisnot@this.com> wrote in message
news:dnkc5r02puf@enews1.newsguy.com...
The always entertaining, if rarely rational "Johnny"
<wxpprofessional@msn.com> wrote in message
news:M_gnf.51723$i7.43981@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
"LC" <LCisnot@this.com> wrote in message
news:dnk3e5020oo@enews2.newsguy.com...
Fundamentally insane troll "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in
message news:OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
The good folks at Operation Rescue
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you
to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is
a
Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to
conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want
pluralism."
--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort
Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93
Thank you for aiding the cause of Mr. Terry.
I am sure he isn't ashamed of that quote.
On that we agree.
Of course, he's almost as loony as you.
Almost.
How many more recruits will he gain from posts that cite his words?
I'd wager...none.
I think you do not understand how much people will take hold of such
language as Mr. Terry used there.
Some people value "hate" over "reason".
Like you, Randall Terry, and J "IBen" Young.
Maybe you are actually for him.
<snicker>
Thanks.
Always glad to point out the loons amongst us, as their words always give
'em away.
Y'know, like this:
"Your momma is/was a *****?
You are/were a pimp?
Who's your daddy?
I need some cash."
I see nothing in error there.
~ Johnny "Pimp Daddy" Wentzky, rappin' his 'lil brainz out
in search of the elusive bling-bling.
And, that is your typing.
Message-ID: <njPOd.10191$Se6.9878@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
LC~ Thanks Johnny for playing.
"Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments when he was merely
stupid."~ Heinrich Heine
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Anti-Abortion Terrorists |
11 Dec 2005 11:15:26 PM |
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J Young <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
The good folks at Operation Rescue do have a valid point,
The terrorists at Operation Rescue?
these women are
already suffering emotional turmoil.
Abortion doesn't affect well-being, study says
New York Times (as printed in the San Jose Mercury 2/12/97)
Abortion does not trigger lasting emotional trauma in young women who
are psychologically healthy before they become pregnant, an eight-year
study of nearly 5,300 women has shown. Women who are in poor shape
emotionally after an abortion are likely to have been feeling bad about
their lives before terminating their pregnancies, the researchers said.
The findings, the researchers say, challenge the validity of laws
that have been proposed in many states, and passed in several, mandating
that women seeking abortions be informed of mental health risks.
The researchers, Dr. Nancy Felipe Russo, a psychologist at Arizona
State University in Tempe, and Dr. Amy Dabul Marin, a psychologist at
Phoenix College, examined the effects of race and religion on the
well-being of 773 women who reported on sealed questionnaires that
they had undergone abortions, and they compared the results with the
emotional status of women who did not report abortions.
The women, initially 14 to 24 years old, completed questionnaires and
were interviewed each year for eight years, starting in 1979. In 1980
and in 1987, the interview also included a standardized test that
measures overall well-being, the Rosenberg Self-Esteem Scale.
"Given the persistent assertion that abortion is associated with
negative outcomes, the lack of any results in the context of such a
large sample is noteworthy," the researchers wrote. The study took
into account many factors that can influence a woman's emotional
well-being, including education, employment, income, the presence of
a spouse and the number of children.
Higher self-esteem was associated with being employed, having a
higher income, having more years of education and bearing fewer children,
but having had an abortion "did not make a difference," the researchers
reported. And the women's religious affiliations and degree of involvement
with religion did not have an independent effect on their long-term
reaction to abortion. Rather, the women's psychological well-being before
having abortions accounted for their mental state in the years after the
abortion, the researchers said..
In considering the influence of race, the researchers again found
that the women's level of self-esteem before having abortions was the
strongest predictor of their well-being after an abortion.
"Although highly religious Catholic women were slightly more likely
to exhibit post-abortion psychological distress than other women, this
fact is explained by lower pre-existing self-esteem," the researchers
wrote in the current issue of Professional Psychology: Research and
Practice, a journal of the American Psychological Association.
Overall, Catholic women who attended church one or more times a week,
even those who had not had abortions, had generally lower self-esteem
than other women, although within the normal range, so it was hardly
surprising that they also had lower self-esteem after abortions, the
researchers said in interviews.
Gail Quinn, executive director of anti-abortion activities for the
United States Catholic Conference, said the findings belied the
experience of post-abortion counselors. She said, "While many women
express `relief' following an abortion, the relief is transitory."
In the long term, the experience prompts "hurting people to seek the
help of post-abortion healing services," she said.
The president of the National Right to Life Committee, Dr. Wanda
Franz, who earned her doctorate in developmental psychology, challenged
the researchers' conclusions. She said their assessment of self-esteem
"does not measure if a woman is mentally healthy," adding, "This requires
a specialist who performs certain tests, not a self-assessment of how
the woman feels about herself."
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "J Young" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
11 Dec 2005 11:28:45 PM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:dnj11e$e6o$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Abortion doesn't affect well-being, study says
New York Times (as printed in the San Jose Mercury 2/12/97)
Abortion does not trigger lasting emotional trauma in young women who
are psychologically healthy before they become pregnant, an eight-year
study of nearly 5,300 women has shown.
You would label the victims of Hurricane Katrina as being psychologically
healthy? Who are you trying to kid?
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Anti-Abortionists Demand Servitude |
12 Dec 2005 12:08:19 AM |
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J Young <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Abortion doesn't affect well-being, study says
New York Times (as printed in the San Jose Mercury 2/12/97)
Abortion does not trigger lasting emotional trauma in young women who
are psychologically healthy before they become pregnant, an eight-year
study of nearly 5,300 women has shown.
You would label the victims of Hurricane Katrina as being psychologically
healthy?
I don't consider YOU to be psychologically healthy.
========================================================================
THE MYTH OF POST-ABORTION TRAUMA
by Henry P David PhD
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Induced abortion is one of the oldest forms of fertility regulation.
Perhaps no other elective procedure has evoked as much public debate,
generated such emotional and moral controversy or received greater
sustained attention from the media. As has long been recognised, there
is no psychologically painless way of coping with an unwanted pregnancy.
While an abortion may elicit feelings of regret, guilt or loss, an
alternative solution, such as a forced marriage, giving a baby up for
adoption or adding an unwanted child to an already strained partner
relationship, is also likely to be accompanied by psychological problems
for the woman, the child and society.
Of all the complications of abortion, psychological responses are the
most difficult to assess and evaluatepfar more so than mortality and
morbidity statistics. Assuming that psychiatric or psychological
morbidity is a real and measurable phenomenon, the explanation for the
wide range of opinions expressed in the literature may well lie in the
inadequacy of much of the published work. Included in the scientific
deficiencies are an overemphasis on clinical case histories that ignore
the large majority of women who terminate unwanted pregnancies and never
seek post-operative mental health consultation; the absence of
standardised follow-up procedures; failure to reach consensus on
diagnostic psychological criteria; or disagreement on psychological
variables related to the sociocultural context within which the abortion
decision occurs. Differing political, moral, ethical and religious
perspectives impinge on how abortion is perceived by diverse observers.
Post-abortion trauma was initially described by Rue1 as a variant of
post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Subsequently it has been asserted
that in 1987 the American Psychiatric Association acknowledged in its
newly revised manual of diagnostic criteria, the Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders III-R (DSM-III-R) that abortion
is a type of 'psychosocial stressor.' However, the American Psychiatric
Association never published a statement suggesting this. Neither the
1987 nor the 1994 revision of the APA Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
(DSM III-R and IV) mention abortion in relation to post-traumatic stress
disorder. Indeed, the only mention of abortion in DSM IV is spontaneous
abortion.
As defined by the APA, PTSD is a disabling condition 'following exposure
to an extreme traumatic stressor involving direct personal experience of
an event that involves actual or threatened death or serious injury'.
Likely stressors cited by APA as examples of PTSD include military
combat, violent personal assault, terrorist attack, and being held
hostage. It is quite a stretch to claim abortion as a stressor likely to
induce PTSD.
Usdin2, one of the major developers of the concept of post-traumatic
stress disorder noted that one of the criteria for PTSD is experiencing
'an event that is outside the range of usual human experience and that
would be markedly distressing to almost anyone.' Considering that more
than 30 million women in the USA and four million women in the UK have
experienced abortion since its legalisation it can hardly be said that
the abortion experience is outside the range of usual human experience.
There has been no reported increase in public or private mental health
services for women attributing their current psychological problems to
abortion.
The rationale for post-abortion syndrome (PAS) was developed by A C
Speckhard in 1985 in an unpublished thesis based on interviews with 30
women recruited for her doctoral dissertation in sociology at the
University of Minnesota. The women had been recruited because they
deemed their abortion experience to have been 'highly stressful'. The
time between the retrospective account and the most recent abortion
varied from one to 25 years. Both legal and clandestine abortions were
included. 46 per cent of the sample had second trimester abortions and
four per cent experienced third trimester terminations, both known to be
more psychologically stressful than first trimester procedures. Whereas
over 90 per cent of all women having abortions in 1990 had them in the
first trimester, only 50 per cent of Speckhard's sample reported first
trimester abortions. More than nine out of 10 (92 per cent) of the women
recalled feelings of anger, hostility or rage toward individuals
(including partner, medical professionals and significant others) who
were perceived as having been coercive in the abortion decision-making
process. Moreover, 96 per cent of the subjects 'regarded abortion as the
taking of a life or as murder,' an observation very likely to heighten
feelings of guilt and perceptions of stress. Speckhard later cautioned
readers that 'the generalisability of the results is severely limited by
the size of the sample and the sampling methodology,' adding that 'the
results presented do not necessarily apply to all women who have
abortions, or even to that proportion of women who are highly stressed
following abortion.' It was indeed an atypical sample.
Recognising the political, ethical and moral issues intertwined with
abortion and in response to questions raised in the United States
Congress about the medical and mental health effects of abortion, the
American Psychological Association, in 1989, convened an expert panel to
examine psychological factors. The panel's mission was not to assess
values but to consider the best available evidence on psychological
responses to abortion. It focused on studies with the most rigorous
research designs, reporting findings on the psychological status of
women who had legal abortions under non-restrictive circumstances, that
is, on request in the first trimester and not solely on grounds of
physical or mental health.
The panel found that psychological distress is generally greatest before
the abortion when the woman has to decide how to resolve an unwanted
pregnancy. Responses after abortion reflect the range of psychological
experience and the resources a woman has for coping with negative life
events. While there may be temporary sensations of regret, sadness or
guilt the weight of the evidence indicates that legal abortion of an
unwanted pregnancy in the first trimester does not pose a severe
psychological hazard for the vast majority of women. Indeed, most women
report experiencing a feeling of reliefpof anxiety lifted.
A longer term study3 found that the wellbeing of 773 women, interviewed
annually in a national sample of 5,295 women, was unrelated to their
abortion experience eight years earlier. Women who had had an abortion
had a statistically significant higher global self-esteem rating than
women who had never had an abortion. This difference was even greater
when comparing aborting women with those delivering unwanted pregnancies
(who had the lowest self-esteem). Women who had experienced repeat
abortions did not differ in self-esteem from women who had never had an
abortion. In all, the evidence confirmed earlier findings that factors
other than the abortion experience itself determine post abortion
emotional status, particularly how a woman perceives her pregnancy and
how she believes it to be perceived in her immediate social environment.
Some women continually reconstruct and reinterpret past events in the
light of subsequent experience and can be pressured into feeling guilt
and shame long afterwards.
Denmark offers unique opportunities for research in reproductive health
because it has a uniform national population registration system that
provides access to national abortion, birth and admission to psychiatric
hospital registers. Linkage among these registers makes it possible to
compare the risks of psychiatric hospital admission following abortion
and childbirth. However, because there may be a bias against
hospitalising a new mother, particularly if she is nursing, the relative
psychological risk of abortion compared with childbirth may be
exaggerated by using hospital admission as an operational indicator of
psychiatric illness.
Controlling for previous psychiatric history, first time psychiatric
hospital admissions were tracked three months post-abortion and
postpartum and for all other women experiencing no fertility event under
age 50 residing in Denmark. Data were obtained on 27,234 women
terminating pregnancy, 71,378 women carrying to term and the total
population of 1,169,819 women 15-49 years old.4
Among women who were married or living in a stable partner relationship,
the post-pregnancy risk of admission to a psychiatric hospital was about
the same for abortions or deliveries: approximately 1.3 per 1,000
abortions and 1.2 per 1,000 deliveries. While the difference between
rates for abortions and deliveries was not statistically significant,
the rate for the total population of women was considerably lower (0.7
per 1,000). Among a smaller group of separated, divorced or widowed
women, those who had terminated pregnancies showed a substantially
higher psychiatric admission rate (6.4 per 1,000) than did separated,
divorced or widowed women carrying to term (1.7 per 1,000). Women who
are divorced, separated or widowed may be relatively more likely to be
terminating pregnancies that were originally intended, placing them at
higher risk for negative post-abortion psychological reactions. However,
in the aggregate, there appeared to be little risk to psychological
wellbeing after
either abortion or delivery in Denmark.
In a longer term (up to 11 years) prospective cohort study5 of 13,261
women, organised jointly by the Royal Colleges of Obstetricians and
Gynaecologists and of General Practitioners in the United Kingdom, there
were four comparison groups: 6,151 women who did not request abortion,
6,410 who obtained an abortion, 379 whose request for abortion was
denied, and 371 who requested an abortion and then changed their minds.
Among the study's key findings were that (a) among women with equivalent
past psychiatric histories there were no significant differences between
the comparison groups in overall rates of psychiatric illness; (b) women
with a previous history of psychosis were more likely to experience a
psychotic episode during the period of the study than those who had no
such history and that termination of pregnancy did not appear to
increase the risk; (c) women with a past history of non-psychotic
disorder or no history of psychiatric disorder who had a termination
were significantly less likely to have a psychotic episode than those
who did not request a termination; and (d) in women with no previous
history of psychosis the risk of psychosis after termination appeared to
be lower than after childbirth.
The authors note that many women were lost to follow-up during the study
and that at the end just 2,122 (34.4 per cent) of the termination group
and 3,000 (42.4 per cent) of those who did not request a termination
were still under observation but that comparisons between the groups
were still valid.
Severe psychological reactions after abortion are infrequent. Psychoses
are very uncommon, being reported in only 0.3 to 1.2 per 1,000 legal
abortions. Individual case studies and anecdotal reports of severe
stress or psychopathology following abortion abound in some of the
literature but there is no clear evidence of causal linkage to abortion.
While such responses can be emotionally overwhelming for the woman
concerned and for her family, the number of such cases is very small,
and has been characterised by former US Surgeon General C Everett Koop
as 'minuscule from a public health perspective'. Women identified in the
research literature as being at some risk for negative psychological
reactionspand in potential need of special counsellingpare those who
terminate a very much wanted pregnancy for medical reasons; lack support
from partners or parents for their decision; were coerced into making a
decision they subsequently regretted; are conflicted about deeply held
religious values; are uncertain of their coping abilities beforehand;
blame themselves for the pregnancy; delay into the second trimester or
had a previous psychiatric episode.
For the vast majority of women, an abortion will be followed by a
mixture of emotions, with a predominance of positive feelings. This
holds immediately after abortion and for some time afterward. Little is
known about very long term effects beyond 10 years. However, the
positive picture reported up to eight years after abortion makes it
unlikely that more negative responses will emerge later. Severe negative
reactions are rare. The time of greatest stress is likely to be before
the abortion decision is made. In all, evidence from the research
literature suggests that, in the aggregate, legal abortion of an
unwanted pregnancy in the first trimester does not pose a psychological
hazard for most women. They tend to cope successfully and go on with
their lives. There is, as yet, no credible evidence for the existence of
post-abortion syndrome.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1Rue VM. Abortion and family relations, Testimony presented before the
Subcommittee on the Constitution, US Senate Judiciary Committee, US
Senate, 97th Congress, Washington DC 1981.
2Usdin G. Psychiatry, letters, February 1990.
3Russo NF, Zierk KL. Abortion, childbearing and women's well-being,
Professional Psychology: Research and Practice 1992, 23: 269-280.
4David HP. Post-abortion and postpartum psychiatric hospitalisation in R
Porter and M O'Connor (eds) Abortion: Medical progress and social
implications Ciba Symposium No 45 London, Pitman 1985,150-161.
5Gilchrist AC, Hannaford PC, Frank P, Kay CR. Termination of pregnancy
and psychiatric morbidity, British Journal of Psychiatry 1995, 167:
243-248.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prepared for presentation at the international conference on abortion,
Abortion Matters, in Amsterdam, The Netherlands, 27-29 March 1996. An
expanded, fully referenced version of this paper is available from Birth
Control Trust.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
11 Dec 2005 09:04:45 PM |
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On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:32:19 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
A service provider is offering his services free to disaster victims.
I seem to recall a lot of publicity for people to do exactly that.
If he was a roofer and offered to do free roofs I bet there would be a
long line.
The usual jerk source is noted and disregarded.
.
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 07:38:47 AM |
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"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:92qpp1d8apemo82pbnfqj006lnlevmb010@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:32:19 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
A service provider is offering his services free to disaster victims.
I see no proof that the doctor in this case is offering to work without
compensation from any source.
.
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| User: "martin" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortionsto Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 09:13:54 AM |
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Johnny wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:92qpp1d8apemo82pbnfqj006lnlevmb010@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:32:19 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
A service provider is offering his services free to disaster victims.
I see no proof that the doctor in this case is offering to work without
compensation from any source.
I suspect it's none of your damn business
.
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 09:50:18 AM |
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"martin" <usenet@etiqa.co.uk> wrote in message
news:439d92ee$0$29561$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
Johnny wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:92qpp1d8apemo82pbnfqj006lnlevmb010@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:32:19 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
A service provider is offering his services free to disaster victims.
I see no proof that the doctor in this case is offering to work without
compensation from any source.
I suspect it's none of your damn business
Why would you think that?
.
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 11:39:50 AM |
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"Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com> writes:
"martin" <usenet@etiqa.co.uk> wrote in message
news:439d92ee$0$29561$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
Johnny wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:92qpp1d8apemo82pbnfqj006lnlevmb010@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:32:19 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
A service provider is offering his services free to disaster victims.
I see no proof that the doctor in this case is offering to work without
compensation from any source.
I suspect it's none of your damn business
Why would you think that?
If I adopted your attitude, you'd be screaming like the stuck pig you
are...and what would your neighbors think of the professional welfare leech in
their midst that they're working to support?
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2005-06 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 4, Cleveland 1 (December 11)
NEXT GAME: Friday, December 16 vs. Peoria, 7:35
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 12:35:07 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:38:47 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<y1fnf.8283$MA2.7251@bignews6.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:92qpp1d8apemo82pbnfqj006lnlevmb010@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:32:19 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
A service provider is offering his services free to disaster victims.
I see no proof that the doctor in this case is offering to work without
compensation from any source.
Then they would not be free would they? Just at no charge to the
patient.
Do you see any proof payment is being made from some other source?
.
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
12 Dec 2005 03:43:31 PM |
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"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:kkgrp11bgojqt0db2ese28nf5ds2ev70c8@4ax.com...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:38:47 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<y1fnf.8283$MA2.7251@bignews6.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:92qpp1d8apemo82pbnfqj006lnlevmb010@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:32:19 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
A service provider is offering his services free to disaster victims.
I see no proof that the doctor in this case is offering to work without
compensation from any source.
Then they would not be free would they?
Free to the customer does not necessarily mean free to the society.
Just at no charge to the
patient.
Do you see any proof payment is being made from some other source?
I see no proof that there is no compensation to the doctor.
.
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
13 Dec 2005 08:43:22 AM |
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Johnny wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:kkgrp11bgojqt0db2ese28nf5ds2ev70c8@4ax.com...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:38:47 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<y1fnf.8283$MA2.7251@bignews6.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:92qpp1d8apemo82pbnfqj006lnlevmb010@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:32:19 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
A service provider is offering his services free to disaster victims.
I see no proof that the doctor in this case is offering to work without
compensation from any source.
Then they would not be free would they?
Free to the customer does not necessarily mean free to the society.
However, chances are it is also free to the society. It certainly
costs society less than forcing her to continue her pregnancy against
her will. And that is just considering the cost of the pregnancy
through childbirth.
Just at no charge to the
patient.
Do you see any proof payment is being made from some other source?
I see no proof that there is no compensation to the doctor.
I see no proof from you of the doctor getting any compensation.
Mark Sebree
.
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| User: "Johnny" |
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| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
13 Dec 2005 09:08:47 PM |
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|
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1134485001.895457.280020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Johnny wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:kkgrp11bgojqt0db2ese28nf5ds2ev70c8@4ax.com...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:38:47 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<y1fnf.8283$MA2.7251@bignews6.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:92qpp1d8apemo82pbnfqj006lnlevmb010@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:32:19 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
A service provider is offering his services free to disaster victims.
I see no proof that the doctor in this case is offering to work without
compensation from any source.
Then they would not be free would they?
Free to the customer does not necessarily mean free to the society.
However, chances are it is also free to the society.
I saw no indication of that in the post.
It certainly
costs society less than forcing her to continue her pregnancy against
her will.
I see no proof of your statement.
And that is just considering the cost of the pregnancy
through childbirth.
I see no proof of your statement.
Just at no charge to the
patient.
Do you see any proof payment is being made from some other source?
I see no proof that there is no compensation to the doctor.
I see no proof from you of the doctor getting any compensation.
I am not required to prove it.
I did not make a statement that I was offering free abortions.
I am not required to prove that they are free or performed with compensation
to the doctor who offerred to perform free abortions.
Mark Sebree
.
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
|
| Title: Re: Preying on the Vulnerable: Abortionist Offers Free Abortions to Hurricane Victims |
13 Dec 2005 09:36:34 PM |
|
|
Johnny wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1134485001.895457.280020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Johnny wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:kkgrp11bgojqt0db2ese28nf5ds2ev70c8@4ax.com...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:38:47 -0500, "Johnny" <wxpprofessional@msn.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<y1fnf.8283$MA2.7251@bignews6.bellsouth.net> wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:92qpp1d8apemo82pbnfqj006lnlevmb010@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:32:19 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<OOednUN9lO4CKgHenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
A service provider is offering his services free to disaster victims.
I see no proof that the doctor in this case is offering to work without
compensation from any source.
Then they would not be free would they?
Free to the customer does not necessarily mean free to the society.
However, chances are it is also free to the society.
I saw no indication of that in the post.
Society does not have to pay for either the pregnancy or the abortion,
since the doctor is donating his services. The reason that you do not
see it is because you refuse to see fact that you disagree with.
It certainly
costs society less than forcing her to continue her pregnancy against
her will.
I see no proof of your statement.
Then just look below.
And that is just considering the cost of the pregnancy
through childbirth.
I see no proof of your statement.
That one is the easiest thing in the world to prove. The cost of an
abortion is between $350 and $600, depending on what part of the
country you are in.
The cost of a pregnancy through delivery is $10,000 - $20,000 if there
are no complications.
And if the pregnancy forces her onto welfare, then it is likely that
she is getting at least several thousand a year until the child is 18
years old.
Therefore, the comparison is between $0 and $10,000 in the short term,
and several times that in the long term.
Simple math proves my statement.
Just at no charge to the
patient.
Do you see any proof payment is being made from some other source?
I see no proof that there is no compensation to the doctor.
I see no proof from you of the doctor getting any compensation.
I am not required to prove it.
You made the allegation that the doctor is getting some type of
compensation, so therefore you are the one that is required to support
your allegation that the doctor is being compensated from some other
source. You presented the premise, so you are responsible for
supporting it.
I did not make a statement that I was offering free abortions.
No, the original article said that a particular doctor was offering
free abortions to women affected by Hurricane Katrina. Nobody ever
said that you were offering abortions, free or otherwise.
I am not required to prove that they are free or performed with compensation
to the doctor who offerred to perform free abortions.
We already know that they are free, since that is what the article said
in the first place. You offered the premise that the doctor was
getting compensation from some other source.
And for proof that you provided that premise the quote is yours from
earlier in the thread:
"I see no proof that the doctor in this case is offering to work
without compensation from any source."
You have presented the premise that he was getting compensation when
the original article made no indication of this. Therefore, it is your
premise. And therefore, you are responsible for supporting it. And I
have yet to see any support for your premise, as usual for you.
Mark Sebree
Mark Sebree
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