| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"webgiant" |
| Date: |
10 Oct 2003 05:36:30 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Abortion used to select sex of unborn children |
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 04:21:10 GMT,
Dorothy <Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <wallopcods2003@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
In article <GAogb.511590$cF.182949@rwcrnsc53>,
Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net says...
Voluntary population control in the US.
That's what it's all about.
That's what the US, UK etc already have! ;-))
People decide for themselves whether or not
to produce children. And their decision, and
how they go about their decision, and on what
mix of grounds (including population levels)
they make their decision, is...none of your
business.
It's the business of International Planned
Parenthood of course with it's phony court
cases
Citation? Oh, right, a lot of ad hominem
is a replacement for citations. Forgot that.
and the lies involved to bring about
voluntary population control in the US.
Voluntary population control isn't a bad thing.
Someone who only has $50 a month to spend on
food isn't going to see their life *improved*
by having three more children. That $50 a
month food budget isn't going to magically
increase just because there are three extra
children.
You say "voluntary population control", I
say "avoiding mini-overpopulations", as well
as "voluntary population control."
We no longer have an agrarian economy.
By that I mean that children are no
longer "free farm labor". Children are
now "expensive mouths to feed and brains
to educate". If you don't have the money
to raise your children, then you are
stupid for having more children than you
can adequately or better-than-adequately
raise.
People decide for themselves based on
propaganda coming out IPP and PP which
is how they sell voluntary population
control to the masses. You might want
to look at the early eugenics movement.
The "early eugenics movement" was all for
forced abortions, forced sterilization
based on RACE, and generally forcing the
general population into forced birth
control (if they were "undesireable")
or forced childbirth (if they were
"desireable").
Thankfully, Margaret Sanger and her
organization, the Birth Control League,
weren't part of the mainstream eugenics
movement. They were on the fringes, sure
enough, but no respectable mainstream
eugenicist of the early part of the 20th
Century would have considered Margaret
Sanger a "real eugenicist".
Margaret Sanger and her cronies were
*fringe eugenicists* because they
considered hereditary conditions to be
a problem for all races, and not limited
to nor occurring in greater numbers in
non-white races. Also, Margaret Sanger
insisted that the individual, not the
state, be the arbiter of one's own
reproduction, a concept which was alien
to the mainstream eugenics movement.
Even Hitler would have thought Margaret
Sanger's concept of eugenics absurd,
since he took the right of reproductive
control away from the people and gave it
to the state.
The idea is that people who are stupid
enough to kill off their children
shouldn't continue to breed.
And Margaret Sanger said, quite a number of
times, that she was opposed to women having
abortions. Of course, the problem was that
the U.S.A. had the Comstock Laws, which
prevented women from having adequate access
to birth control.
And if you look into Africa, you see a
situation similar to early 20th Century
America: women who have no access to birth
control methods and who live in a society
wherein men have almost total control over
women, will have more abortions just to
attempt to control their own family size.
As Sanger said, the movement is designed
to breed a race of human thoroughbreds.
Of all races and creeds. Of course, you
anti-abortion people like to pretend that
Margaret Sanger was a racist and also
wanted to take the reproductive choice
away from women and give it to the
government. Two concepts which were
totally alien to Margaret Sanger and the
Birth Control League.
===============================================
"To create a race of thoroughbreds."
This remark, again attributed originally to
Sanger, was made by Dr. Edward A. Kempf and has
been cited out of context and with distorted
meaning. Dr. Kempf, a progressive physician,
was actually arguing for state endowment of
maternal and infant care clinics. In her book
THE PIVOT OF CIVILIZATION, Sanger quoted Dr.
Kempf's argument about how environment may
improve human excellence:
"Society must make life worth the living
and the refining for the individual by
conditioning him to love and to seek the
love-object in a manner that reflects a
constructive effect upon his fellow-men
and by giving him suitable opportunities.
The virility of the automatic apparatus
is destroyed by excessive gormandizing or
hunger, by excessive wealth or poverty,
by excessive work or idleness, by sexual
abuse or intolerant prudishness. The
noblest and most difficult art of all is
the raising of human thoroughbreds.(6)"
It was in this spirit that Sanger used the
phrase, "Birth Control: To Create a Race of
Thoroughbreds," as a banner on the November
1921 issue of THE BIRTH CONTROL REVIEW.
(Differing slogans on the theme of voluntary
family planning sometimes appeared under the
title of THE REVIEW, e.g., "Dedicated to the
Cause of Voluntary Motherhood," January 1928.)
==============================================
Thoroughbreds aren't stupid enough to kill
off their own children.
Women who are stupid enough to have too many
children for their level of resources ARE
killing off their children. At the very
least, they are making CERTAIN that their
children grow up without adequate nutrition
or education.
Voluntary population control means that women,
and hopefully men, are taking an active role
in matching the number of children they have
to their level of resources. If they can
support two children, they don't have any
more than two children.
The stupid killing off their own children
raises the level of intelligence in the
population. Don't take it personally.
The family that makes certain its children
have excellent access to education and
excellent access to nutrition raises the
level of intelligence in the general
population. Some women feel that they must
have an abortion in order to make certain
that their *existing children* are not
deprived of education and/or food. They
do so voluntarily and without any
organization coercing or encouraging them
to have that abortion.
Remember, when Margaret Sanger was talking
about voluntarily limiting one's family
size in order to improve one's children's
chances in life, she wasn't living in a
society with any real safety net. People
who had more children than they could
afford, lived with the realities of things
like child diseases and injuries they
couldn't afford to treat, children who
went hungry because the family couldn't
afford enough food, and children who worked
in factories and other unskilled labor jobs
because they couldn't afford to send their
children to school.
Even the modern "Safety net" has been eroded
considerably, so much that we're almost back
to the point where Margaret Sanger was asking
women to voluntarily limit their family sizes
down to available family resources.
[] The government is no longer willing
to give enough money to families
which are TOO BIG to survive on
whatever income one or even both
of the parents are able to provide.
[] The government no longer provides
enough money to poverty-stricken
families of 16 year olds to
discourage those 16 year olds from
dropping out of high school to work
jobs to support the rest of the
family.
[] The government is no longer willing
to provide adequate assistance to
allow poverty-stricken 18 year olds
to attend college, or even trade
schools. The level of debt required
for a poverty-stricken 18 year old
to attend college or trade school is
so high that upon graduation they are
immediately reduced back to poverty
just to pay for the student loans,
frequently in the $30,000 to $100,000
range of debt. Declaring bankruptcy
has no effect on student loan debt.
Now we are faced with the problems of the
early 20th Century all over again. And
you're sitting there claiming that huge
families on poverty-level income is
something that should be *encouraged*,
rather than *discouraged*.
.
|
|
| User: "Dorothy" |
|
| Title: Re: Abortion used to select sex of unborn children |
11 Oct 2003 01:58:24 AM |
|
|
"webgiant" <webgiant@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:OYvhb.37799$832.7333@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 04:21:10 GMT,
Dorothy <Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net> wrote:
"Pat Winstanley" <wallopcods2003@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
In article <GAogb.511590$cF.182949@rwcrnsc53>,
Zuukie@Comcast_nospam_.net says...
Voluntary population control in the US.
That's what it's all about.
(snip)
Thankfully, Margaret Sanger and her
organization, the Birth Control League,
weren't part of the mainstream eugenics
movement. They were on the fringes, sure
enough, but no respectable mainstream
eugenicist of the early part of the 20th
Century would have considered Margaret
Sanger a "real eugenicist".
Margaret Sanger and her cronies were
*fringe eugenicists* because they
considered hereditary conditions to be
a problem for all races, and not limited
to nor occurring in greater numbers in
non-white races. Also, Margaret Sanger
insisted that the individual, not the
state, be the arbiter of one's own
reproduction, a concept which was alien
to the mainstream eugenics movement.
(snip)
Now we are faced with the problems of the
early 20th Century all over again. And
you're sitting there claiming that huge
families on poverty-level income is
something that should be *encouraged*,
rather than *discouraged*.
Sanger was active with the same organizations and people the eugenicists
were involved with:
http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=13130&intcategoryid=5
FOCUS ON ISSUES
Hitler made eugenics famous,
but he took it from United States
By Edwin Black
WASHINGTON, Aug. 28 (JTA) — Hitler victimized an entire continent and
exterminated millions in his quest for a so-called “Master Race.”
The world thought Hitler was mad and barely understood his rationales. But
the concept of a white, blond-haired, blue-eyed master Nordic race was not
Adolf Hitler’s. The idea was created in the United States at least two
decades before Hitler came to power.
It was the product of the American eugenics movement.
Eugenics was the racist American pseudoscience designed to wipe out all
human beings except those who conformed to a Nordic stereotype. The
philosophy was enshrined into national policy by forced sterilization,
segregation laws and marriage restrictions that were enacted in 27 states.
Ultimately, eugenics coercively sterilized some 60,000 Americans, barred the
marriage of thousands, forcibly segregated thousands more in colonies and
persecuted untold numbers in ways we are just learning.
Only after eugenics and race biology became entrenched as an American ideal
was the campaign transplanted to Germany, where it came to Hitler’s
attention.
Hitler studied American eugenic laws and rationales and sought to legitimize
his innate race hatred and anti-Semitism by medicalizing it and wrapping it
in a pseudoscientific facade. Indeed, Hitler was able to attract many
reasonable Germans by claiming that science was on his side.
While Hitler’s race hatred sprung from his own mind, the intellectual
outlines of the eugenics Hitler adopted in 1924 were strictly American.
Eugenics would have been little more than bizarre parlor talk had it not
been for massive financing by corporate philanthropies, specifically the
Carnegie Institution, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Harriman railroad
fortune.
They were in league with America’s most respected scientists from
prestigious universities such as Harvard, Yale and Princeton. These
academicians faked and twisted data to serve eugenics’ racist aims.
The Carnegie Institution effectively invented the American movement when it
established a laboratory complex at Cold Spring Harbor, on Long Island. This
complex stockpiled millions of index cards on ordinary Americans as the
movement carefully plotted the removal of families, bloodlines and whole
peoples.
From Cold Spring Harbor, eugenics advocates agitated in the legislatures of
America as well as in the nation’s social service agencies and associations.
The Harriman railroad fortune paid local charities, such as the New York
Bureau of Industries and Immigration, to seek out Jewish, Italian and other
immigrants in New York and other crowded cities and subject them to
deportation, confinement or forced sterilization.
The Rockefeller Foundation helped found and fund the German eugenics
program, and it even funded the program that ultimately sent Josef Mengele
into Auschwitz.
The Rockefeller Foundation etc.
From The Pivot of Civilization by Margaret Sanger, in Historical
Perspective, edited by Michael Perry.
"Among the capitalists who began to fear the consequences of their deeds,
none was better known than John Rockefeller, Sr., once considered the "most
hated man in America." His son, John Rockefeller Jr. would be given the
enviable task of giving away much of the vast wealth his father had taken.
Sanger would have contact with the family, both professionally--the son
founded the Bureau of Social Hygiene--and personally. (Her papers at
Smith College contain some 200 letters between Sanger and the Rockefeller
family or a family organization). In a trial during the early 1920's, she
faced a hostile attorney who attempted to tar her with the brush of
political radicalism. "Do you know Emma Goldman?" he asked, looking at the
judge. "Yes," Sanger replied, " but I also know Mrs. Andrew Carnegie and
Mr. John D. Rockefeller Jr. My social relations are with people of varying
ideas and opinions." The relationship that she and others in her movement
would have with the Rockefeller family would prove long and enduring. In
1970, Ramparts magazine published an article on "Why the Population Bomb is
a Rockefeller Baby?"
While you are right that Sanger's methods were to be voluntary and the
eugenicists were coerced, their view of the lower classes were similar.
Margaret Sanger was president of the American Birth Control League. This
from the Principles and Aims of the American Birth Control League.
....
"Everywhere we see poverty and large families going hand in hand. Those
least fit to carry on the race are increasing most rapidly. People who
cannot support their own offspring are encouraged by Church and State to
produce large families. Many of the children thus begotten ar diseased or
feeble-minded; many become criminals. The burden of supporting these
unwanted types has to be borne by the healthy elements of the nation. Funds
that should be used ro raise the standard of our civilization are diverted
to the maintenance of those who should never have been.....
"To make this possible , it is necessary to organize various departments:
.....
"Sterilization: of the insane and feebleminded and the encouragement of
this operation upon those afflicted with inherited or transmissible
diseases, with the understanding that sterilization does not deprive the
individual of his or her sex expression, but merely renders him incapable of
producing children."
And Margaret Sanger wasn't all that opposed to abortion as some would
suggest.
With all of the rationalizations for abortion, except to save the physical
life of the mother, it is totally immoral.
.
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