Science > Abortion > Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions?
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"osprey" |
| Date: |
01 Apr 2004 12:55:41 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
(Craig Chilton) wrote in message news:<40651edf.63886003@netnews.mchsi.com>...
1. WHY are you a BUSYBODY?
Why are you asking?
2. WHY would you give a flying rat's ***** about ANY
person's *private* sex life?
I don't.
3. WHY in the world would you seek to treat any
person or group of people with less respect based
solely on what they do in private, as consensual
adults? (How could that POSSIBLY be of ANY
importance to you?)
I don't.
4. IF you are opposed to same-sex marriage, WHY?
Because it is a sin. And if I was to support same sex marriage it
would be the same as saying the act of homosexuality is o.k., which it
isn't. So I will never vote for any candidate that supports
homosexual marriage.
Only a VALID, **factual** reason... such as a *way*
that any heterosexual couple's marriage would in
ANY way be threatened, and thus need "protection"
from this impending expansion of liberty... is appro-
priate as a response. (Mindless emotionalism
counts for *nothing*, and is NO excuse for
discrimination.)
Why are you the only one who thinks you can say what is valid or not?
That is a awful lot of power you are giving yourself. Ever occur to
you that some will disagree?
5. ENDA -- the totally-harmless "Employment Non-
Discrimination Act" -- which would have done
nothing more than ensure that people could NOT
be unfairly discriminated against in the workplace,
due to their sexual orientation -- failed by only ONE
(RRR cult-induced) vote in the U.S. Senate last
time, and will almost surely *pass* THIS time. Would
YOU be opposed to this very FAIR measure? If
so -- WHY?
I have no problem with laws that prohibit discrimination. A person is
there to
do a job, and only that job. Not bring in their personal lives. When
they bring in their personal lives, they set themselves up.
[[[ READERS -- if *any* person provides sensible and
intelligent answers to ANY the five above questions,
you'd better be sitting down. I've never seen ANY
person YET provide an intelligent and factual reason
for doing ANY of the above.
Craig Chilton < >
I believe my answers are sensible and intelligent. Your first
question about being a busybody, you kind of contradict yourself by
even asking people these questions. Makes you the busybody.
IMHO
.
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| User: "RobertVB" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
08 Apr 2004 01:31:26 AM |
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In article <j9d970tgv3ti353n1a4nm85s4iofe0tr5s@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
No, by definition, it must include the freedom to
choose ones religion.
And if your religion is null that means freedom from religion.
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| User: "L. Michael Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 11:00:50 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:02:18 GMT, "Light Templar"
<I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:42:20 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:33:10 -0400, Pastor Dave
<nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
It's Implied that if Americans have the freedom to choose which
religious path to take, that people can also choose to take no
religious path, is it not?
The phrase 'freedom FROM religion"
Isn't found in the Constitution.
Doesn't need to be. By definition, freedom of religion must include
freedom from religion.
No, by definition, it must include the freedom to
choose ones religion.
Or to choose NO religion at all thereby being free FROM religion in
one's own life and choices.
--
+==================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada. To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
+================================================================+
.
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| User: "Light Templar" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 09:16:25 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:02:18 GMT, "Light Templar"
<I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:42:20 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:33:10 -0400, Pastor Dave
<nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
I agree... those rules are usually called "laws" and in a decent
and civilized society, freedom OF and FROM religion requires that
NO religious dogma be enshrined in those laws.
Nowhere does the Constitution guarantee freedom FROM
religion. If that were the case, then the churches
would have to be torn down and no one would be able to
speak, nor write about religious matters, because you
might hear and see them.
Constitutional Literalists get on my nerves almost as much as
Biblical Literalists.
It's Implied that if Americans have the freedom to choose which
religious path to take, that people can also choose to take no
religious path, is it not?
The phrase 'freedom FROM religion"
Isn't found in the Constitution.
Doesn't need to be. By definition, freedom of religion must include
freedom from religion.
No, by definition, it must include the freedom to
choose ones religion.
Or to choose NO religion at all. Freedom from religion.
--
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities
in our air and water that are doing it." - J. Danforth Quayle
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
08 Apr 2004 06:00:32 AM |
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On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:16:25 GMT, "Light Templar"
<I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:02:18 GMT, "Light Templar"
<I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:42:20 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:33:10 -0400, Pastor Dave
<nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
I agree... those rules are usually called "laws" and in a decent
and civilized society, freedom OF and FROM religion requires that
NO religious dogma be enshrined in those laws.
Nowhere does the Constitution guarantee freedom FROM
religion. If that were the case, then the churches
would have to be torn down and no one would be able to
speak, nor write about religious matters, because you
might hear and see them.
Constitutional Literalists get on my nerves almost as much as
Biblical Literalists.
It's Implied that if Americans have the freedom to choose which
religious path to take, that people can also choose to take no
religious path, is it not?
The phrase 'freedom FROM religion"
Isn't found in the Constitution.
Doesn't need to be. By definition, freedom of religion must include
freedom from religion.
No, by definition, it must include the freedom to
choose ones religion.
Or to choose NO religion at all. Freedom from religion.
Repeating it doesn't make it true. Those words aren't
found in the Constitution and the English language does
not support you either. Choosing a religion means just
that... choosing a religion.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
www.answersingenesis.org
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "L. Michael Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
08 Apr 2004 07:26:58 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:16:25 GMT, "Light Templar"
<I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:02:18 GMT, "Light Templar"
<I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:42:20 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:33:10 -0400, Pastor Dave
<nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
No, by definition, it must include the freedom to
choose ones religion.
Or to choose NO religion at all. Freedom from religion.
Repeating it doesn't make it true. Those words aren't
found in the Constitution and the English language does
not support you either. Choosing a religion means just
that... choosing a religion.
And choosing NO religion means one if free FROM religion in one's
personal life.
<sig snip>
--
+==================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada. To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
+================================================================+
.
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| User: "Light Templar" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
08 Apr 2004 06:13:49 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:16:25 GMT, "Light Templar"
<I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:02:18 GMT, "Light Templar"
<I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:42:20 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:33:10 -0400, Pastor Dave
<nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
I agree... those rules are usually called "laws" and in a
decent and civilized society, freedom OF and FROM religion
requires that NO religious dogma be enshrined in those laws.
Nowhere does the Constitution guarantee freedom FROM
religion. If that were the case, then the churches
would have to be torn down and no one would be able to
speak, nor write about religious matters, because you
might hear and see them.
Constitutional Literalists get on my nerves almost as much as
Biblical Literalists.
It's Implied that if Americans have the freedom to choose which
religious path to take, that people can also choose to take no
religious path, is it not?
The phrase 'freedom FROM religion"
Isn't found in the Constitution.
Doesn't need to be. By definition, freedom of religion must
include freedom from religion.
No, by definition, it must include the freedom to
choose ones religion.
Or to choose NO religion at all. Freedom from religion.
Repeating it doesn't make it true.
It stand true of it's own accord. By definition, freedom of religion MUST
include freedom from religion.
--
"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons
of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use
against our friends, against our allies, and against us."
Vice President Speaks at VFW 103rd National Convention, White House
(8/26/2002).
.
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| User: "Pangur Ban" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 09:39:14 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:02:18 GMT, "Light Templar"
<I@DONTACCEPTEMAIL.FAM> spake thusly:
Doesn't need to be. By definition, freedom of religion must
include freedom from religion.
No, by definition, it must include the freedom to choose ones
religion.
Yes - freedom OF religion IS the freedom to choose what one believes.
That includes the freedom to believe in NO religion. A belief cannot be
forced; if someone chooses not to believe in the Divine Force (*shrug*
their problem and not mine), he or she has that freedom. No one, not
even Pastor Dave, can demand "YOU MUST BELIEVE" and be obeyed.
Frustrating, isn't it?
Pang
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| User: "L. Michael Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 11:27:42 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:23:01 -0400, "L. Michael
Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@NoSpamThanks.net> spake
thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:10:18 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:55:25 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 07:35:05 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:01:01 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
You know what you're version of America looks like after you get everything your way? It looks like
Iran, without the headscarves on the women.
And you fail to see what you advocate, which is a
country with no morals, where everyone does whatever is
right in their own eyes and there are no rules of
decency. The fact is, that for a society to function,
there must be rules.
I agree... those rules are usually called "laws" and in a decent and
civilized society, freedom OF and FROM religion requires that NO
religious dogma be enshrined in those laws.
Nowhere does the Constitution guarantee freedom FROM
religion.
Freedom OF religion contains freedom FROM religion. I am free to
believe in the chosen religious behaviour of my choice or NO religious
behaviour at all - this I have freedom FROM religion.
If that were the case, then the churches
would have to be torn down and no one would be able to
speak, nor write about religious matters, because you
might hear and see them.
You confuse my personal right to be free FROM religion if I choose not
to believe in one, and my constitutional right to be free FROM religious
dogma enshrined into civil law; with the freedom OF religion that all
enjoy to believe as they wish and to erect appropriate structures -
churches/mosques/temples/synagogues - for them to carry on the cult
activities of their choice [BTW *all* religions are cults by definition].
<sig snip>
--
+==================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada. To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
+================================================================+
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 05:00:39 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:27:42 -0400, "L. Michael
Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@NoSpamThanks.net> spake
thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:23:01 -0400, "L. Michael
Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@NoSpamThanks.net> spake
thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:10:18 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:55:25 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 07:35:05 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:01:01 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
You know what you're version of America looks like after you get everything your way? It looks like
Iran, without the headscarves on the women.
And you fail to see what you advocate, which is a
country with no morals, where everyone does whatever is
right in their own eyes and there are no rules of
decency. The fact is, that for a society to function,
there must be rules.
I agree... those rules are usually called "laws" and in a decent and
civilized society, freedom OF and FROM religion requires that NO
religious dogma be enshrined in those laws.
Nowhere does the Constitution guarantee freedom FROM
religion.
Freedom OF religion contains freedom FROM religion.
No it doesn't.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
http://www.geocities.com/dpatrickwood/evolution2.html
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "L. Michael Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 11:18:37 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:27:42 -0400, "L. Michael
Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@NoSpamThanks.net> spake
thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:23:01 -0400, "L. Michael
Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@NoSpamThanks.net> spake
thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:10:18 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:55:25 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 07:35:05 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:01:01 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
I agree... those rules are usually called "laws" and in a decent and
civilized society, freedom OF and FROM religion requires that NO
religious dogma be enshrined in those laws.
Nowhere does the Constitution guarantee freedom FROM
religion.
Freedom OF religion contains freedom FROM religion.
No it doesn't.
Dave, Dave Dave. You know, I am really beginning to wonder if you are
actually a pastor. One expects integrity, honesty and an example worth
emulating from a man of the cloth. You are driving people away from Him
with your constant distortions, deceit and outright lies. So besides
damming your own soul to the lake of fire, you are turning people away
from deity.
If you have the honesty to leave my replay intact without cutting it so
you could bend my words to suit your false witness, and not even marking
the cuts thereby piling deceit on top of lies, you would have seen that
I explain just exactly how I arrive at the conclusion that freedom OF
religion contains freedom FROM religion as follows:
Freedom OF religion contains freedom FROM religion. I am free to believe in the chosen religious behaviour of my choice or NO religious behaviour at all - this I have freedom FROM religion.
Now are you prepared to respond to my whole and complete statement in a
honest manner or do you wish to continue with your lies of omission?
You also complained that the concept of freedom FROM religion implied
that churches would have to be demolished. When I replied:
You confuse my personal right to be free FROM religion if I choose not to believe in one, and my constitutional right to be free FROM religious dogma enshrined into civil law; with the freedom OF religion that all enjoy to believe as they wish and to erect appropriate structures - churches/mosques/temples/synagogues - for them to carry on the cult activities of their choice [BTW *all* religions are cults by definition].
You did not he the integrity to respond or the honesty to mark that you
had deleted my reply to your unfounded allegation that churches would
have to be demolished. Not a very good example of how a pastor should
hold the high moral ground and give an example of virtue for his flock
now are you?
<sig snip>
--
+==================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada. To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
+================================================================+
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
08 Apr 2004 06:09:10 AM |
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On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 00:18:37 -0400, "L. Michael
Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@NoSpamThanks.net> spake
thusly:
I agree... those rules are usually called "laws" and in a decent and
civilized society, freedom OF and FROM religion requires that NO
religious dogma be enshrined in those laws.
Nowhere does the Constitution guarantee freedom FROM
religion.
Freedom OF religion contains freedom FROM religion.
No it doesn't.
Dave, Dave Dave. You know, I am really beginning to wonder if you are
actually a pastor. One expects integrity, honesty and an example worth
emulating from a man of the cloth. You are driving people away from Him
with your constant distortions, deceit and outright lies. So besides
damming your own soul to the lake of fire, you are turning people away
from deity.
It isn't "honest" to add words to the Constitution that
aren't there.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"Evolution destroys utterly and finally the very reason
Jesus' earthly life was supposedly made necessary.
Destroy Adam and Eve and the original sin and in the
rubble, you will find the sorry remains of the Son of
God. If Jesus was not the Redeemer... and this is what
evolution means, then Christianity is nothing."
- Richard Bozarth, Atheist
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
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| User: "Light Templar" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
08 Apr 2004 06:17:08 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 00:18:37 -0400, "L. Michael
Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@NoSpamThanks.net> spake
thusly:
I agree... those rules are usually called "laws" and in a decent
and civilized society, freedom OF and FROM religion requires
that NO religious dogma be enshrined in those laws.
Nowhere does the Constitution guarantee freedom FROM
religion.
Freedom OF religion contains freedom FROM religion.
No it doesn't.
Dave, Dave Dave. You know, I am really beginning to wonder if you
are actually a pastor. One expects integrity, honesty and an
example worth emulating from a man of the cloth. You are driving
people away from Him with your constant distortions, deceit and
outright lies. So besides damming your own soul to the lake of
fire, you are turning people away from deity.
It isn't "honest" to add words to the Constitution that
aren't there.
They are there. Freedom of religion MUST BY DEFINITION include freedom
from religion.
--
"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons
of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use
against our friends, against our allies, and against us."
Vice President Speaks at VFW 103rd National Convention, White House
(8/26/2002).
.
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| User: "Xypher" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
04 Apr 2004 08:17:17 PM |
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You have Democracy and Christianity confused unless you do not believe in
Christ at all.
"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:407179a4.3473330@netnews.mchsi.com...
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:50:10 -0400,
"Pastor" Dave <pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
Why are you asking?
Because I'm an egalitarian defender of personal liberties,
and when people's rights are unnecessarily and unconscionably
trampled by people, that makes it my business, as a fair-minded
human being, to try to learn WHY that's being done. And at the
same time, this question is designed to raise the consciousness
of the homophobe to the level at which -- just MAYBE -- he can
begin to realize that by being an active homophobe, he is butting
into people's PRIVATE affairs and lives, seeking to interfere with
things that are absolutely NONE of his business.
You are a defender of sin.
I am a defender of individual rights and liberties.
Rights and liberties come from God, not governments.
They DO, huh? Then how come there's still slavery in parts
of the world? GOVERNMENT both **gives** liberties and they
**deny** liberties, while God does little else but OBSERVE.
God calls it sin.
The Bible doesn't say a single WORD against same-sex
marriage.
Therefore, you defend sin.
I defend people's RIGHTS. If God happens to disagree with
the way any person chooses to *exercise* his liberties, thaty's
between the person and God, and is NONE of *my* business.
NOR is it any of yours. Furthermore, millions of Americans don't
believe in God AT ALL, and therefore should in NO way be
**forced** to comply with ANY Biblical precepts which have not
been written into the law of the land.
Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
INSIGHT on our Warmonger-in-Thief ---
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AND...
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~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
05 Apr 2004 10:12:00 AM |
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On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:50:10 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
You are a defender of sin.
I am a defender of individual rights and liberties.
Rights and liberties come from God, not governments.
God calls it sin. Therefore, you defend sin. It's a
quite simple bit of logic.
God approves of slavery. He approves of raping the women captured in battle. He's against mixing
races. He approves of the killing of "witches" and disobediant sons.
God is NOT about 'rights' or 'liberties', Pastor. God is about Obeying Him. Christians pretend to
KNOW THE WORD OF GOD through the Bible, yet you can't find two christians to agree on everything IN
the Bible, so what does that tell you? (Probably nothing, since YOU are sure that YOU know the only
proper interpretation of the Bible)
Governments and People created the idea of rights and liberty. It's something People fight for and
will continue to fight for. Often, it seems those fighting for Liberty are fighting the same,
religious people every step of the way.
James, Seattle
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
06 Apr 2004 10:04:39 AM |
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On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:12:00 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:50:10 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
You are a defender of sin.
I am a defender of individual rights and liberties.
Rights and liberties come from God, not governments.
God calls it sin. Therefore, you defend sin. It's a
quite simple bit of logic.
God approves of slavery. He approves of raping the women captured in battle. He's against mixing
races. He approves of the killing of "witches" and disobediant sons.
Those are accusations. Care to back them up? And
define what each is, or you have not supported your
argument.
God is NOT about 'rights' or 'liberties', Pastor. God is about Obeying Him.
He is about both, just as America is supposed to be.
You are a hypocrite. You make claims against God, in
favor of a government and yet, that same government
does not give us a license to do whatever we want. It
limits what we can and cannot do. Or do you think you
are free to go and murder someone? In fact, members of
a group called, "Food Not Bombs" are being arrested,
right here in the area I live in, for bringing free
food to the homeless in the park. What crime is there
in feeding the hungry? Yet this government takes away
the basic right of man, given to him by God, to help
the downtrodden.
Don't come in here making foolish claims to me. I can
see through your facade.
Christians pretend to
KNOW THE WORD OF GOD through the Bible, yet you can't find two christians to agree on everything IN
the Bible, so what does that tell you? (Probably nothing, since YOU are sure that YOU know the only
proper interpretation of the Bible)
Of course no one agrees on everything in the Bible.
It's a big book, with lots of words to understand.
Your problem is that your argument makes you a
hypocrite again. unless you can demonstrate to me that
every American, for example, agrees with each other
about every law that is on the books and every thing
our government claims that the Constitution and the
laws say, then your argument is hypocrisy.
Governments and People created the idea of rights and liberty.
Sorry, God did that in the Garden of Eden and only gave
man on law to follow and man couldn't even get that
right, so why would I put my confidence in man?
It's something People fight for and
will continue to fight for.
Is it? Then why does this very same government
continually seek to limit my rights, sometimes even
against what the Constitution says?
Often, it seems those fighting for Liberty are fighting the same,
religious people every step of the way.
No sir, they are fighting the liberals.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
Christians are the light of the world, but the switch
has to be turned on.
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
06 Apr 2004 07:14:21 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:04:39 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
Christians pretend to
KNOW THE WORD OF GOD through the Bible, yet you can't find two christians to agree on everything IN
the Bible, so what does that tell you? (Probably nothing, since YOU are sure that YOU know the only
proper interpretation of the Bible)
Of course no one agrees on everything in the Bible.
It's a big book, with lots of words to understand.
Your problem is that your argument makes you a
hypocrite again. unless you can demonstrate to me that
every American, for example, agrees with each other
about every law that is on the books and every thing
our government claims that the Constitution and the
laws say, then your argument is hypocrisy.
But you said you never 'interpret' the bible.... you simply read the passages and they speak for
themselves. If this was true, Christians would agree, would they not? Heck! You say that Jesus
fulfilled the law and some (not all) of the 10 commandments are to be ignored.
That seems like a basic tenant of Christianity that MANY of your fellow christians would disagree
with you on.
James, Seattle
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 05:39:12 AM |
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On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:14:21 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:04:39 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
Christians pretend to
KNOW THE WORD OF GOD through the Bible, yet you can't find two christians to agree on everything IN
the Bible, so what does that tell you? (Probably nothing, since YOU are sure that YOU know the only
proper interpretation of the Bible)
Of course no one agrees on everything in the Bible.
It's a big book, with lots of words to understand.
Your problem is that your argument makes you a
hypocrite again. unless you can demonstrate to me that
every American, for example, agrees with each other
about every law that is on the books and every thing
our government claims that the Constitution and the
laws say, then your argument is hypocrisy.
But
It seems that you are unable to defend your own
arguments and thought you'd try to shift gears and
ignore the fact that you've been proven to be a
hypocrite.
you said you never 'interpret' the bible.... you simply read the passages and they speak for
themselves. If this was true, Christians would agree, would they not?
I did not say that I NEVER interpret the Bible. I said
that the message that I wrote contained no
interpretation of the Bible and that I just repeated
what it said, which is true.
Heck! You say that Jesus
fulfilled the law and some (not all) of the 10 commandments are to be ignored.
I didn't say any such thing. I stated that they are
still a moral guide for Christians.
That seems like a basic tenant of Christianity that MANY of your fellow christians would disagree
with you on.
See above. And twisting my words only proves your
dishonesty.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"When we descend to details we can prove that no one
species has changed (i.e., we cannot prove that a
single species has changed): nor can we prove that
the supposed changes are beneficial, which is the
groundwork of the theory. Nor can we explain why
some species have changed and others have not.
The latter case seems to me hardly more difficult
to understand precisely and in detail than the former
case of supposed change" - Darwin, 1863.
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 08:50:57 AM |
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On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:39:12 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
Heck! You say that Jesus
fulfilled the law and some (not all) of the 10 commandments are to be ignored.
I didn't say any such thing. I stated that they are
still a moral guide for Christians.
You said that the commandment about the Sabbath can be ignored because of Jesus fulfilling the law,
yet other commandments must still be obeyed. Which is it?
That seems like a basic tenant of Christianity that MANY of your fellow christians would disagree
with you on.
See above. And twisting my words only proves your
dishonesty.
I'm not intentionally twisting your words. You ignore the Sabbath commandment, and I'm just
pointing out the irony (or hypocrisy) of ignoring a commandment by GOD and then piecing together
passages to justify your prejudices towars other "sinners"... even if those 'sinners' aren't
christian and believe in another religion.
James, Seattle
---
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's own ignorance." Confucius
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 05:03:35 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:50:57 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:39:12 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
Heck! You say that Jesus
fulfilled the law and some (not all) of the 10 commandments are to be ignored.
I didn't say any such thing. I stated that they are
still a moral guide for Christians.
You said that the commandment about the Sabbath can be ignored because of Jesus fulfilling the law,
yet other commandments must still be obeyed. Which is it?
You claimed I said that some of the 10 Commandments are
to be ignored. You did not tell the truth.
That seems like a basic tenant of Christianity that MANY of your fellow christians would disagree
with you on.
See above. And twisting my words only proves your
dishonesty.
I'm not intentionally twisting your words.
Yes, you are.
You ignore the Sabbath commandment,
Here's another example. When did I say that do, or do
not, follow the Commandment about the Sabbath?
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"If then, these teachings [of a false prophet]
contradict the chief doctrine and article of Christ,
we should accord them neither with attention nor
acceptance though it were to snow miracles daily."
- Martin Luther
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 05:51:44 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:03:35 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
You said that the commandment about the Sabbath can be ignored because of Jesus fulfilling the law,
yet other commandments must still be obeyed. Which is it?
You claimed I said that some of the 10 Commandments are
to be ignored. You did not tell the truth.
You said Jesus fulfilled the 'sabbath' requirment, did you not?
You also don't Keep the Sabbath Holy, saturday OR sunday, correct?
Going to church on Sunday isn't keeping the Sabbath holy.
Here's another example. When did I say that do, or do
not, follow the Commandment about the Sabbath?
I've asked you 4 times now and you haven't answered... since I've NEVER met a christian that keeps
the Sabbath holy I'll presume you don't... tell me if You do... You'd be the first I've met.
Let's see.. while you're answering the Sabbath question, how about:
II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
Got any Graven Images of Jesus around? (At least the Muslims obey this one)
IV. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Do ANY Christians do this any longer or just Jews and Muslims?
VII. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Remember... 'adultry' is IMPURE THOUGHTS, not sex. How often do you commit adultery?
VIII. Thou shalt not steal.
Download any music lately? Under report your taxes? Find any money on the ground and forget to
claim in on your taxes? Pens from work? etc.....
IX. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Ah, Lying... My favorite commandment. Ever Lie?
X. Thou shalt not covet any thing that is thy neighbour's.
The world is your nieghbor in this small world... covet much lately?
I only bring these up to make a point. You really don't have to answer them (to me)... You rant on
and on about the sin of homosexuality, yet most christians (I won't include you in this 'most' just
to save the arguement) break 1/2 the commandments on a fairly regular basis.
And you say a homosexual can't be christian.
James, Seattle
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 09:40:20 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 15:51:44 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 18:03:35 -0400, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
You said that the commandment about the Sabbath can be ignored because of Jesus fulfilling the law,
yet other commandments must still be obeyed. Which is it?
You claimed I said that some of the 10 Commandments are
to be ignored. You did not tell the truth.
You said Jesus fulfilled the 'sabbath' requirment, did you not?
Yes, I did. That does not equate to saying that "some
of the 10 Commandments should be ignored". Why don't
you just be honest and admit that you did not
accurately represent what I said?
You also don't Keep the Sabbath Holy, saturday OR sunday, correct?
Going to church on Sunday isn't keeping the Sabbath holy.
Which does not mean that I do not keep the Sabbath.
You made an assumption, which may, or may not be
correct. The fact is, that Christians are not required
to keep the Sabbath, but as a moral and physical guide,
we should at the least, take one day of rest.
Here's another example. When did I say that do, or do
not, follow the Commandment about the Sabbath?
I've asked you 4 times now and you haven't answered...
Why should I answer, when you're so ready to answer for
me, before you even ask the question?
since I've NEVER met a christian that keeps
the Sabbath holy I'll presume you don't... tell me if You do... You'd be the first I've met.
I keep a day of rest. It is not the seventh day of the
week. I do not do it as a Commandment to follow, but a
moral and physical guide.
Let's see.. while you're answering the Sabbath question, how about:
Why do you feel that it is your job to attack every
little facet of how I honor God?
However, I will answer your questions. But this will
be the last time I will allow this type of approach.
If you wish to discuss my faith with me, then you need
to do it respectfully and have the courtesy to be
honest and forthright in your approach to making your
points and stop putting words into my mouth, or we can
discontinue our discussions. Your choice.
II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
Got any Graven Images of Jesus around? (At least the Muslims obey this one)
No, I don't. It does not describe pictures, but I do
not keep them anyway. Especially considering no one
knows what He looked like anyway.
IV. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Do ANY Christians do this any longer or just Jews and Muslims?
The Seventh Day Adventists do and claim to be
Christian. I haven't examined their full doctrine well
enough to say one way or the other. The Bible does
tell us however, that we no longer must observe it as a
Commandment, as I demonstrated in a previous message.
VII. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Remember... 'adultry' is IMPURE THOUGHTS, not sex. How often do you commit adultery?
I think everyone does, at some point. I do check
myself and monitor myself. I do not claim to be
perfect. I can tell you that my desire is for my wife.
Having a hot wife doesn't hurt either. :) I never
dwell on other women. I do not desire porn, nor do I
watch TV shows that show sex, since I don't have the
desire to see it any longer.
VIII. Thou shalt not steal.
Download any music lately?
No. Nothing not available for free.
Under report your taxes?
Never.
Find any money on the ground and forget to
claim in on your taxes?
Actually, I think under a certain amount, I don't think
you have to report it. I don't have to worry about it
though, since I never seem to find any. :) If I did,
I'd have to check into it.
Pens from work? etc.....
Actually, work receives pens from me. :)
IX. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Ah, Lying... My favorite commandment. Ever Lie?
Of course I HAVE. I do not lie NOW. I'm even brave
enough to tell my wife the truth about her outfits. :)
X. Thou shalt not covet any thing that is thy neighbour's.
The world is your nieghbor in this small world... covet much lately?
Actually, no. I am not moved by material possessions.
Of course we would like to have a home of our own and a
car, etc.. Right now, we rent a one bedroom apartment
at a "by the week" place. Three months ago, we were
living in one room (plus a bathroom) and had been for
about a year. We have no car, nor any transportation
of any kind. We walk and take the bus to work. we are
happy with our situation. The material things of this
world are not where our happiness lies, since our joy
is not based on the horizontal, but rather, the
vertical.
I only bring these up to make a point. You really don't have to answer them (to me)... You rant on
and on about the sin of homosexuality, yet most christians (I won't include you in this 'most' just
to save the arguement) break 1/2 the commandments on a fairly regular basis.
I would state to you that 98% (I may be a bit off) of
those who LABEL themselves as Christians, are not.
And you say a homosexual can't be christian.
I didn't say that, specifically. What we are
discussing, are those who claim that homosexual acts
are not a sin. If one is a homosexual and comes to
Christ and abstains from homosexual acts, I have no
problem with that.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"Evolution destroys utterly and finally the very reason
Jesus' earthly life was supposedly made necessary.
Destroy Adam and Eve and the original sin and in the
rubble, you will find the sorry remains of the Son of
God. If Jesus was not the Redeemer... and this is what
evolution means, then Christianity is nothing."
- Richard Bozarth, Atheist
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
05 Apr 2004 09:23:13 AM |
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On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 05:50:57 -0500, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:19:34 GMT,
(Craig Chilton) spake thusly:
On 1 Apr 2004 10:55:41 -0800,
Robert Heishman ("osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
1. WHY are you a BUSYBODY?
Why are you asking?
Because I'm an egalitarian defender of personal liberties,
You are a defender of sin.
You are a hypocrite and defender of hate. You, dear Pastor, are the type of religious leader Jesus
warns his followers about. You should take heed and pray with your Lord over your attitudes.
James, Seattle
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
06 Apr 2004 10:06:25 AM |
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On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 07:23:13 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 05:50:57 -0500, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:19:34 GMT,
(Craig Chilton) spake thusly:
On 1 Apr 2004 10:55:41 -0800,
Robert Heishman ("osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
1. WHY are you a BUSYBODY?
Why are you asking?
Because I'm an egalitarian defender of personal liberties,
You are a defender of sin.
You are a hypocrite
In order to make that claim, you must show my
hypocrisy. You have not done so, yet make the
accusation. That makes you a bearer of false witness.
and defender of hate.
Where have I defended hate? Where have I said I hate
anyone? Please show me my exact words, in which I
stated that I hate someone.
You, dear Pastor, are the type of religious leader Jesus
warns his followers about. You should take heed and pray with your Lord over your attitudes.
Jesus did not support sin. He spoke loudly against it.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
In the beginning, God created...
And He did it in six days and said
He did it in six days (Exodus 20:11).
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| User: "L. Michael Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
06 Apr 2004 10:30:39 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 07:23:13 -0700, RainLover
<SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> spake thusly:
On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 05:50:57 -0500, Pastor Dave <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:19:34 GMT,
(Craig Chilton) spake thusly:
On 1 Apr 2004 10:55:41 -0800,
Robert Heishman ("osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
1. WHY are you a BUSYBODY?
Why are you asking?
Because I'm an egalitarian defender of personal liberties,
You are a defender of sin.
You are a hypocrite
In order to make that claim, you must show my
hypocrisy. You have not done so, yet make the
accusation. That makes you a bearer of false witness.
I can amply demonstrate your hypocrisy "Pastor Dave"! In this post,
you are claiming that someone is a bearer of false witness when you
yourself were bearing false witness in another thread! In that thread,
you claimed that preaching against homosexuality in a Canadian church
was hate speech. I demonstrated, by quoting the actual section of the
Criminal code, that you were lying [AKA bearing false witness] and yet
you hypricotricaly claims others are lying - repent hell-bound sinner!
<snip>
--
+==================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada. To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
+================================================================+
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
06 Apr 2004 03:09:17 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:30:39 -0400, "L. Michael
Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@NoSpamThanks.net> spake
thusly:
You are a hypocrite
In order to make that claim, you must show my
hypocrisy. You have not done so, yet make the
accusation. That makes you a bearer of false witness.
I can amply demonstrate your hypocrisy "Pastor Dave"! In this post,
you are claiming that someone is a bearer of false witness when you
yourself were bearing false witness in another thread! In that thread,
you claimed that preaching against homosexuality in a Canadian church
was hate speech. I demonstrated, by quoting the actual section of the
Criminal code, that you were lying [AKA bearing false witness] and yet
you hypricotricaly claims others are lying - repent hell-bound sinner!
Actually, if you are correct about what the law allows,
then you would have to demonstrate that I knew the
exact criminal code, in order to prove that I was
lying, as you claim. I responded to your other
message, requesting information.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
Theistic evolutionists are out to please men,
rather than God. They claim to believe in a
virgin birth, people rising from the dead, water
turned into wine and yet, they don't believe that
God created the heaven and the earth in six literal
days, thereby making hypocrites of themselves. Why?
Because man says it isn't so and they would rather
try to please men, instead of choosing to believe
God and stand up for Him. Preachers who claim
theistic evolution are the biggest hypocrites of all
and are in the most danger. Why? Read Isaiah 9:16;
Jeremiah 23:1, 50:6. What do YOU stand for?
"...choose this day whom you will serve. ...as for
me and my house, we will serve the Lord." - Jos 24:15
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| User: "L. Michael Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 12:48:59 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:30:39 -0400, "L. Michael
Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@NoSpamThanks.net> spake
thusly:
You are a hypocrite
In order to make that claim, you must show my
hypocrisy. You have not done so, yet make the
accusation. That makes you a bearer of false witness.
I can amply demonstrate your hypocrisy "Pastor Dave"! In this post,
you are claiming that someone is a bearer of false witness when you
yourself were bearing false witness in another thread! In that thread,
you claimed that preaching against homosexuality in a Canadian church
was hate speech. I demonstrated, by quoting the actual section of the
Criminal code, that you were lying [AKA bearing false witness] and yet
you hypricotricaly claims others are lying - repent hell-bound sinner!
Actually, if you are correct about what the law allows,
then you would have to demonstrate that I knew the
exact criminal code, in order to prove that I was
lying, as you claim. I responded to your other
message, requesting information.
You stated, without qualifications as if it were a fact, that preaching
against homosexuality in a church in Canada was hate speech. You did
not qualify it with "I have heard" or " I have been told" or "I
understand"... you stated it as if it was a proven fact. IOW you lied
and I caught you lying - repent hell-bound sinner!
I provided the information you asked for by referring you to Section
319 of the Criminal Code of Canada which is freely available on the net
from many sources including the Canadian Government at
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/
--
+==================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada. To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
+================================================================+
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
07 Apr 2004 06:28:31 AM |
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On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:48:59 -0400, "L. Michael
Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@NoSpamThanks.net> spake
thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:30:39 -0400, "L. Michael
Roberts" <L_Michael_Roberts@NoSpamThanks.net> spake
thusly:
You are a hypocrite
In order to make that claim, you must show my
hypocrisy. You have not done so, yet make the
accusation. That makes you a bearer of false witness.
I can amply demonstrate your hypocrisy "Pastor Dave"! In this post,
you are claiming that someone is a bearer of false witness when you
yourself were bearing false witness in another thread! In that thread,
you claimed that preaching against homosexuality in a Canadian church
was hate speech. I demonstrated, by quoting the actual section of the
Criminal code, that you were lying [AKA bearing false witness] and yet
you hypricotricaly claims others are lying - repent hell-bound sinner!
Actually, if you are correct about what the law allows,
then you would have to demonstrate that I knew the
exact criminal code, in order to prove that I was
lying, as you claim. I responded to your other
message, requesting information.
You stated, without qualifications as if it were a fact, that preaching
against homosexuality in a church in Canada was hate speech.
I don't seem to remember saying, "in a church", but if
you can provide a message with me saying that in our
conversation, then I will concede that I did. However,
the law defines as a public place, anywhere the public
has access to by invitation also. Churches always
invite the public in and therefore, a church would fit
into that definition.
You did
not qualify it with "I have heard" or " I have been told" or "I
understand"... you stated it as if it was a proven fact. IOW you lied
and I caught you lying - repent hell-bound sinner!
A lie means that I was informed that my statements were
not accurate and made them as if they were fact anyway.
I provided the information you asked for by referring you to Section
319 of the Criminal Code of Canada which is freely available on the net
from many sources including the Canadian Government at
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/
You did not define what I asked you to in the other
message.
--
± Pastor Dave Raymond ±
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
Don't forget, Judas also left early.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
01 Apr 2004 06:05:44 PM |
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On 1 Apr 2004 10:55:41 -0800, (osprey) wrote:
4. IF you are opposed to same-sex marriage, WHY?
Because it is a sin. And if I was to support same sex marriage it
would be the same as saying the act of homosexuality is o.k., which it
isn't. So I will never vote for any candidate that supports
homosexual marriage.
It's a SIN in your opinion, and in YOUR religion. It's not a 'sin' to many others and to many other
religions. If you think homosexuality is a sin, clean out your own house of worship, I'm sure there
are many, many there, but leave other people out of your religious crusade.
YOU don't think homosexuality is okay. Others much more learned in the bible than you or I say it's
okay. Who are you to dictate what other people and Christian sects believe?
Only a VALID, **factual** reason... such as a *way*
that any heterosexual couple's marriage would in
ANY way be threatened, and thus need "protection"
from this impending expansion of liberty... is appro-
priate as a response. (Mindless emotionalism
counts for *nothing*, and is NO excuse for
discrimination.)
Why are you the only one who thinks you can say what is valid or not?
That is a awful lot of power you are giving yourself. Ever occur to
you that some will disagree?
You're only "factual" reason is that in your spiritual beliefs you think homosexuality and same-sex
marriage is a sin. That's not "FACT", that's your spiritual believes and your interpretation of
your religious books. Other people have every right to THEIR beliefs and interpretations... of
course, that's not how YOU see it.
You need to force others to follow your spiritual path because YOURS is righteous and theirs in the
path to hell.
If you don't like same-sex marriages, then DON"T MARRY ANOTHER MAN... that's your prerogative, but
you can't stop others because this is the USA.
To get an idea how you'll sound when you contradict the above statement, remember that you could
interchange whatever arguments you're about to make into the following statement:
If you don't like interracial marriages, then DON"T MARRY ANOTHER RACE... that's your prerogative,
but you can't stop others because this is the USA.
You probably don't remember all of the Preachers (AMEN BROTHER!) in the South who preached against
interracial marriages because it was against nature's way , a sin, and an abomination, but it
happened, and probably still happens in the most backwater towns in the South.
You're arguments against same-sex marriages are a stones throw away from the race argument.
When are you going to rail as hard against all the adulterers around? What about the ones in your
own congregation??? Remember, adultery is REmarrying unless the spouse cheated or died. Adultery
is ALSO Impure THOUGHTS.
It's much easier to cast stones Away from yourself, isn't it? That's why Jesus warned us against
judging others unless you are without sin. Hypocrite.
James, Seattle
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| User: "Peacenik" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
02 Apr 2004 06:58:49 PM |
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"RainLover" <SP-AMB-LOCKrainlover@raincity.com> wrote in message
news:nibp60hjegk5rd4j8ue3m97hvmsilccb5l@4ax.com...
On 1 Apr 2004 10:55:41 -0800, (osprey) wrote:
4. IF you are opposed to same-sex marriage, WHY?
Because it is a sin. And if I was to support same sex marriage it
would be the same as saying the act of homosexuality is o.k., which it
isn't. So I will never vote for any candidate that supports
homosexual marriage.
It's a SIN in your opinion, and in YOUR religion. It's not a 'sin' to
many others and to many other
religions.
Indeed.
And if it's a sin for gays to get married, then why not just let God deal
with them personally?
--
Peacenik
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| User: "Mizzyandrea" |
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| Title: Re: Are YOU a Homophobe? If so, can you answer THESE Questions? |
02 Apr 2004 07:28:55 PM |
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Because it is a sin. And if I was to support same sex marriage
***************
No it isn't
I talked to the Goddess and she said that she's cool with it
I have just as much proof that my Goddess exists as you have that your god
exists.......
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