| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"bobandcarole" |
| Date: |
02 Jun 2007 12:16:25 AM |
| Object: |
Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
Thursday, May. 31, 2007
Last week, the Louisiana Supreme Court upheld the death penalty as
applied to a child abuser. Louisiana has led the way in passing laws
to execute pedophiles. However, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Georgia,
and
Montana also have passed such laws, with Texas soon to follow when
Gov. Rick Perry signs such legislation.
A major impetus for the death penalty in child sex cases is the
heinous crime by a previously-convicted sex offender against Florida
nine-year old Jessica Lunsford, who suffered horrific abuse,
including
burial alive in a shallow grave, where she eventually suffocated.
If there is a way to measure the temperature of public opinion
against
child abuse, this is it, and it bodes well for children, even if it
is
not the most effective way of protecting children.
Concerns with the Death Penalty Legislation, and Priorities in the
Fight Against Child Abuse
Some have expressed concern that if the penalty for pedophilia is
raised to death, children may be deterred from reporting abuse,
especially when it is committed by a relative. Yet such a small
percentage of child sex abuse victims report their abuse at this
point
- estimates run about 10% -- that one has to wonder about the
marginal
effect of the death penalty. Kids already are terrified to report,
usually because they are threatened by their abusers, so this shift
in
the law would seem to make little difference.
My concern, however, is that pedophile-death-penalty laws are, in the
end, a distraction from what needs to be done to truly protect the
most children possible, the most effectively. It's important to
remember that the difference between a pedophile in jail and one put
to death, from a child's perspective, is negligible - in either case,
children are safe from that perpetrator.
Moreover, the main problem we currently have when it comes to
pedophilia (and this is an element in the huge and powerful response
to Jessica Lunsford's death) is that we are not succeeding in
identifying many of the perpetrators that are out there.
As I discussed in a previous column, legislative reform for children
is not hitting at the heart of the problem - the anonymity of the
predators, which is guaranteed by overly short statutes of
limitations. Megan's Law created public lists of sex offenders, but
those lists are woefully short, because the statute of limitations in
the vast majority of child sex abuse cases runs long before the
victim
has the ability to come forward to anyone, and without a criminal
conviction, an offender cannot be placed on any state-maintained
Megan's List. The result is that thousands upon thousands of
predators
are out there, unidentified to unsuspecting families and children.
.
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| User: "Avenger" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 12:32:49 AM |
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"bobandcarole" <bobandcarole059@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180761385.526304.75360@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Thursday, May. 31, 2007
Last week, the Louisiana Supreme Court upheld the death penalty as
applied to a child abuser. Louisiana has led the way in passing laws
to execute pedophiles. However, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Georgia,
and
Montana also have passed such laws, with Texas soon to follow when
Gov. Rick Perry signs such legislation.
A major impetus for the death penalty in child sex cases is the
heinous crime by a previously-convicted sex offender against Florida
nine-year old Jessica Lunsford, who suffered horrific abuse,
including
burial alive in a shallow grave, where she eventually suffocated.
If there is a way to measure the temperature of public opinion
against
child abuse, this is it, and it bodes well for children, even if it
is
not the most effective way of protecting children.
There are only a handful of these sort of cases causing all the hysteria and
besides Murder is a capital offence in all places.
Concerns with the Death Penalty Legislation, and Priorities in the
Fight Against Child Abuse
Some have expressed concern that if the penalty for pedophilia is
raised to death, children may be deterred from reporting abuse,
especially when it is committed by a relative. Yet such a small
percentage of child sex abuse victims report their abuse at this
point
- estimates run about 10% -- that one has to wonder about the
marginal
effect of the death penalty. Kids already are terrified to report,
usually because they are threatened by their abusers, so this shift
in
the law would seem to make little difference.
My concern, however, is that pedophile-death-penalty laws are, in the
end, a distraction from what needs to be done to truly protect the
most children possible, the most effectively. It's important to
remember that the difference between a pedophile in jail and one put
to death, from a child's perspective, is negligible - in either case,
children are safe from that perpetrator.
Moreover, the main problem we currently have when it comes to
pedophilia (and this is an element in the huge and powerful response
to Jessica Lunsford's death) is that we are not succeeding in
identifying many of the perpetrators that are out there.
As I discussed in a previous column, legislative reform for children
is not hitting at the heart of the problem - the anonymity of the
predators, which is guaranteed by overly short statutes of
limitations. Megan's Law created public lists of sex offenders, but
those lists are woefully short, because the statute of limitations in
the vast majority of child sex abuse cases runs long before the
victim
has the ability to come forward to anyone, and without a criminal
conviction, an offender cannot be placed on any state-maintained
Megan's List. The result is that thousands upon thousands of
predators
are out there, unidentified to unsuspecting families and children.
You can't put someone on a list merely on suspicion. Besides I don't know
what good it will do. People living in certain areas generally know who the
perverts are anyway.
.
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| User: "bobandcarole" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 12:42:42 AM |
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On Jun 2, 1:32?am, "Avenger" <aven...@avengers.co.uk> wrote:
"bobandcarole" <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180761385.526304.75360@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Thursday, May. 31, 2007
Last week, the Louisiana Supreme Court upheld the death penalty as
applied to a child abuser. Louisiana has led the way in passing laws
to execute pedophiles. However, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Georgia,
and
Montana also have passed such laws, with Texas soon to follow when
Gov. Rick Perry signs such legislation.
A major impetus for the death penalty in child sex cases is the
heinous crime by a previously-convicted sex offender against Florida
nine-year old Jessica Lunsford, who suffered horrific abuse,
including
burial alive in a shallow grave, where she eventually suffocated.
If there is a way to measure the temperature of public opinion
against
child abuse, this is it, and it bodes well for children, even if it
is
not the most effective way of protecting children.
There are only a handful of these sort of cases causing all the hysteria and
besides Murder is a capital offence in all places.
Concerns with the Death Penalty Legislation, and Priorities in the
Fight Against Child Abuse
Some have expressed concern that if the penalty for pedophilia is
raised to death, children may be deterred from reporting abuse,
especially when it is committed by a relative. Yet such a small
percentage of child sex abuse victims report their abuse at this
point
- estimates run about 10% -- that one has to wonder about the
marginal
effect of the death penalty. Kids already are terrified to report,
usually because they are threatened by their abusers, so this shift
in
the law would seem to make little difference.
My concern, however, is that pedophile-death-penalty laws are, in the
end, a distraction from what needs to be done to truly protect the
most children possible, the most effectively. It's important to
remember that the difference between a pedophile in jail and one put
to death, from a child's perspective, is negligible - in either case,
children are safe from that perpetrator.
Moreover, the main problem we currently have when it comes to
pedophilia (and this is an element in the huge and powerful response
to Jessica Lunsford's death) is that we are not succeeding in
identifying many of the perpetrators that are out there.
As I discussed in a previous column, legislative reform for children
is not hitting at the heart of the problem - the anonymity of the
predators, which is guaranteed by overly short statutes of
limitations. Megan's Law created public lists of sex offenders, but
those lists are woefully short, because the statute of limitations in
the vast majority of child sex abuse cases runs long before the
victim
has the ability to come forward to anyone, and without a criminal
conviction, an offender cannot be placed on any state-maintained
Megan's List. The result is that thousands upon thousands of
predators
are out there, unidentified to unsuspecting families and children.
You can't put someone on a list merely on suspicion. Besides I don't know
what good it will do. People living in certain areas generally know who the
perverts are anyway.
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 01:09:00 AM |
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Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole007@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 11:15:58 AM |
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On Jun 1, 11:09 pm, Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au>
wrote:
Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
While I agree with folks here that this is a horrible crime, I think
that the death penalty is a bit extreme. Lifetime isolation of some
kind might be a better alternative if it is, as they say, incurable.
It is just that we have been doing a pretty sorry job of keeping our
kids safe. We need to do better.
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Grouphttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 02:56:10 AM |
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On Jun 2, 2:09 am, Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au>
wrote:
Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
It would be interesting to see your source of information. Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
I'm not saying that there are not false convictions, in fact I have
run across a few inmates where I am convinced they were innocent and
just victims of being in the wrong place at the wrong time...but
that's very rare that I come across an inmate I believe is probably
innocent. Out of over 2,000 inmates I have dealt with, I would
estimate..maybe 5 that I have come across, I think could be innocent.
.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
04 Jun 2007 03:22:36 AM |
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Last time that great scribe osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> chipped away
at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
On Jun 2, 2:09 am, Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au>
wrote:
Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
It would be interesting to see your source of information. Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
I'm not saying that there are not false convictions, in fact I have
run across a few inmates where I am convinced they were innocent and
just victims of being in the wrong place at the wrong time...but
that's very rare that I come across an inmate I believe is probably
innocent. Out of over 2,000 inmates I have dealt with, I would
estimate..maybe 5 that I have come across, I think could be innocent.
My source was an anti DP mailing list. Certainly the standard of justice
given to those who find themselves on death row is low. Those facing the
gravest outcomes get the worse lawyers.
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.
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| User: "Robert" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
04 Jun 2007 12:50:05 PM |
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On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 17:52:36 +0930, Meteorite Debris
<epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au> wrote:
Last time that great scribe osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> chipped away
at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
On Jun 2, 2:09 am, Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au>
wrote:
Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
It would be interesting to see your source of information. Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
I'm not saying that there are not false convictions, in fact I have
run across a few inmates where I am convinced they were innocent and
just victims of being in the wrong place at the wrong time...but
that's very rare that I come across an inmate I believe is probably
innocent. Out of over 2,000 inmates I have dealt with, I would
estimate..maybe 5 that I have come across, I think could be innocent.
My source was an anti DP mailing list. Certainly the standard of justice
given to those who find themselves on death row is low. Those facing the
gravest outcomes get the worse lawyers.
Actually those with the least resources, get the poorest lawyers.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "Parsifal" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 04:57:05 AM |
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On 2 Jun., 09:56, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 2:09 am, Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au>
wrote:
Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
It would be interesting to see your source of information. Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
I'm not saying that there are not false convictions, in fact I have
run across a few inmates where I am convinced they were innocent and
just victims of being in the wrong place at the wrong time...but
that's very rare that I come across an inmate I believe is probably
innocent. Out of over 2,000 inmates I have dealt with, I would
estimate..maybe 5 that I have come across, I think could be innocent.
I think that one person executed by mistake is enough to reconsider
the whole death penalty question.
Anyway, no civilized country applies death penalty anymore.
It's morally wrong and has no deterrent effect at all.
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 06:08:55 AM |
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On Jun 2, 5:57 am, Parsifal <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 Jun., 09:56, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 2:09 am, Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au>
wrote:
Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
It would be interesting to see your source of information. Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
I'm not saying that there are not false convictions, in fact I have
run across a few inmates where I am convinced they were innocent and
just victims of being in the wrong place at the wrong time...but
that's very rare that I come across an inmate I believe is probably
innocent. Out of over 2,000 inmates I have dealt with, I would
estimate..maybe 5 that I have come across, I think could be innocent.
I think that one person executed by mistake is enough to reconsider
the whole death penalty question.
I agree. However, I have seen both sides and I think that the families
should have a lot of say in the matter..after all, they are the ones
hurting.
Anyway, no civilized country applies death penalty anymore.
Yet, this civilized country kills millions of unborn every year.
It's morally wrong and has no deterrent effect at all.-
Puh-lease...someone who doesn't care how many unborn are
slaughtered..telling me about morals.
.
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| User: "Parsifal" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 08:46:58 AM |
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On 2 Jun., 13:08, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 5:57 am, Parsifal <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 Jun., 09:56, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 2:09 am, Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au>
wrote:
Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
It would be interesting to see your source of information. Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
I'm not saying that there are not false convictions, in fact I have
run across a few inmates where I am convinced they were innocent and
just victims of being in the wrong place at the wrong time...but
that's very rare that I come across an inmate I believe is probably
innocent. Out of over 2,000 inmates I have dealt with, I would
estimate..maybe 5 that I have come across, I think could be innocent.
I think that one person executed by mistake is enough to reconsider
the whole death penalty question.
I agree. However, I have seen both sides and I think that the families
should have a lot of say in the matter..after all, they are the ones
hurting.
The problem is that we often confuse "emotional reaction" and
"justice". If someone kills my wife, naturally, I'll wish this person
dead. But this not "justice". It's a normal -and sane- reaction. This
is why it is important that the final decision is taken by someone
else.
And, bottom line, if I oppose death penalty, I have to have the moral
courage to always be against it.
Easier said than done, I know.
Anyway, no civilized country applies death penalty anymore.
Yet, this civilized country kills millions of unborn every year.
This is a matter of opinion and I, a "un-dead", don't see it that way.
It's morally wrong and has no deterrent effect at all.-
Puh-lease...someone who doesn't care how many unborn are
slaughtered..telling me about morals.-
Again, it is a matter of opinion. I don't see abortion as a murder.
And, interestingly enough, I'm not alone to think that way. There's is
thing called the supreme court which also said that.
So you can beat me with a 2 X 4, you can call me "bigot", I still
won't see abortion as a murder.
Death penalty IS a murder. Authorized by the state.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 09:32:25 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 06:46:58 -0700, Parsifal
<jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 Jun., 13:08, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 5:57 am, Parsifal <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyway, no civilized country applies death penalty anymore.
Yet, this civilized country kills millions of unborn every year.
This is a matter of opinion and I, a "un-dead", don't see it that way.
A country that executes mental defectives can't be said to be
civilized, regardless of the opinion of one egomaniacal prison guard.
(Especially since it's led by a man who, as governor of one of its
states, refused to sign a pardon for a man about to be executed simply
because the man was innocent.)
.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
03 Jun 2007 11:25:57 AM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in
news:ht9463hqgj9f0p9kol1hlrpum5u01a4uc7@4ax.com:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 06:46:58 -0700, Parsifal
<jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 Jun., 13:08, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 5:57 am, Parsifal <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyway, no civilized country applies death penalty anymore.
Yet, this civilized country kills millions of unborn every year.
This is a matter of opinion and I, a "un-dead", don't see it that way.
A country that executes mental defectives can't be said to be
civilized, regardless of the opinion of one egomaniacal prison guard.
(Especially since it's led by a man who, as governor of one of its
states, refused to sign a pardon for a man about to be executed simply
because the man was innocent.)
Innocence is no excuse!
--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling
aa # 1939
Help Prevent Projectile Stupidity
Duct-Tape a Fundie's Mouth Shut Today!
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
03 Jun 2007 02:17:19 AM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 06:46:58 -0700, Parsifal
<jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 Jun., 13:08, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 5:57 am, Parsifal <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyway, no civilized country applies death penalty anymore.
Yet, this civilized country kills millions of unborn every year.
This is a matter of opinion and I, a "un-dead", don't see it that
way.
A country that executes mental defectives can't be said to be
civilized, regardless of the opinion of one egomaniacal prison guard.
(Especially since it's led by a man who, as governor of one of its
states, refused to sign a pardon for a man about to be executed simply
because the man was innocent.)
That's one of the sad facts of our legal system. The man may not have
committed the crime but he was not, by law, in our system, innocent if he
had been found guilty.
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 11:53:44 AM |
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Parsifal wrote:
<snip>
Again, it is a matter of opinion. I don't see abortion as a murder.
And, interestingly enough, I'm not alone to think that way. There's is
thing called the supreme court which also said that.
So you can beat me with a 2 X 4, you can call me "bigot", I still
won't see abortion as a murder.
Death penalty IS a murder. Authorized by the state.
While I am against the death penalty, it is not murder.
Murder is a term defined by law and does not include the death penalty.
.
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| User: "Parsifal" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
05 Jun 2007 12:53:43 AM |
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On 2 juin, 18:53, "Mike Painter" <mddotpain...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Parsifal wrote:
<snip>
Again, it is a matter of opinion. I don't see abortion as a murder.
And, interestingly enough, I'm not alone to think that way. There's is
thing called the supreme court which also said that.
So you can beat me with a 2 X 4, you can call me "bigot", I still
won't see abortion as a murder.
Death penalty IS a murder. Authorized by the state.
While I am against the death penalty, it is not murder.
Murder is a term defined by law and does not include the death penalty.
And which law is it? The American law. How convenient.
In my book, a murder is to voluntarily take the life of someone else.
Whether "authorised" or not, death penalty is a murder. There might be
some "justifications", but it is a murder.
It's quite amusing to see all the "good christians" in the USA who
seem to forget that the pope and the catholic chuch are stronly
opposed to death penalty.
.
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| User: "bobandcarole" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
10 Jun 2007 07:22:29 PM |
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On Jun 5, 1:53?am, Parsifal <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 juin, 18:53, "Mike Painter" <mddotpain...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Parsifal wrote:
<snip>
Again, it is a matter of opinion. I don't see abortion as a murder.
And, interestingly enough, I'm not alone to think that way. There's is
thing called the supreme court which also said that.
So you can beat me with a 2 X 4, you can call me "bigot", I still
won't see abortion as a murder.
Death penalty IS a murder. Authorized by the state.
While I am against the death penalty, it is not murder.
Murder is a term defined by law and does not include the death penalty.
And which law is it? The American law. How convenient.
In my book, a murder is to voluntarily take the life of someone else.
Whether "authorised" or not, death penalty is a murder. There might be
some "justifications", but it is a murder.
It's quite amusing to see all the "good christians" in the USA who
seem to forget that the pope and the catholic chuch are stronly
opposed to death penalty.
Watching what you say???
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| User: "RamRod Sword of Baal" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 02:20:11 PM |
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Re the death penalty.
First of all I am aagainst the death penalty.
Now thinking of the children, and only the children, if there is a death
penalty for pedophiles who molest kids, then the pedophile has nothing to
lose if he kills the child he has molested to 'shut them up' as the penalty
will be the same for both crimes, and killing children is not something we
wish to see.
Just my tuppence worth.
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| User: "bobandcarole" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 05:06:05 PM |
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On Jun 2, 3:20?pm, "RamRod Sword of Baal" <RamRod@truth_only.com>
wrote:
Re the death penalty.
First of all I am aagainst the death penalty.
Now thinking of the children, and only the children, if there is a death
penalty for pedophiles who molest kids, then the pedophile has nothing to
lose if he kills the child he has molested to 'shut them up' as the penalty
will be the same for both crimes, and killing children is not something we
wish to see.
Just my tuppence worth.
Which we know isn't worth the powder and shot it would
take to blow you up.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 09:33:33 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 19:20:11 GMT, "RamRod Sword of Baal"
<RamRod@truth_only.com> wrote:
Now thinking of the children, and only the children, if there is a death
penalty for pedophiles who molest kids, then the pedophile has nothing to
lose if he kills the child he has molested to 'shut them up' as the penalty
will be the same for both crimes, and killing children is not something we
wish to see.
But signing such a bill into law sure makes for a good sound bite, and
it's grist for future runs for office.
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| User: "bob&carole" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 06:13:22 AM |
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On Jun 2, 7:08?am, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 5:57 am, Parsifal <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 Jun., 09:56, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 2:09 am, Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au>
wrote:
Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
It would be interesting to see your source of information. Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
I'm not saying that there are not false convictions, in fact I have
run across a few inmates where I am convinced they were innocent and
just victims of being in the wrong place at the wrong time...but
that's very rare that I come across an inmate I believe is probably
innocent. Out of over 2,000 inmates I have dealt with, I would
estimate..maybe 5 that I have come across, I think could be innocent.
I think that one person executed by mistake is enough to reconsider
the whole death penalty question.
I agree. However, I have seen both sides and I think that the families
should have a lot of say in the matter..after all, they are the ones
hurting.
Anyway, no civilized country applies death penalty anymore.
Yet, this civilized country kills millions of unborn every year.
It's morally wrong and has no deterrent effect at all.-
Puh-lease...someone who doesn't care how many unborn are
slaughtered..telling me about morals.
Yeah, like Parsleyful has any morals...
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| User: "Syd M." |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 09:41:32 AM |
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On Jun 2, 7:13 am, bob&carole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 7:08?am, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 5:57 am, Parsifal <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 Jun., 09:56, osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 2:09 am, Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au>
wrote:
Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
It would be interesting to see your source of information. Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
I'm not saying that there are not false convictions, in fact I have
run across a few inmates where I am convinced they were innocent and
just victims of being in the wrong place at the wrong time...but
that's very rare that I come across an inmate I believe is probably
innocent. Out of over 2,000 inmates I have dealt with, I would
estimate..maybe 5 that I have come across, I think could be innocent.
I think that one person executed by mistake is enough to reconsider
the whole death penalty question.
I agree. However, I have seen both sides and I think that the families
should have a lot of say in the matter..after all, they are the ones
hurting.
Anyway, no civilized country applies death penalty anymore.
Yet, this civilized country kills millions of unborn every year.
It's morally wrong and has no deterrent effect at all.-
Puh-lease...someone who doesn't care how many unborn are
slaughtered..telling me about morals.
Yeah, like Parsleyful has any morals...
He has more then you, BoobandCoward..
PDW
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
03 Jun 2007 06:56:16 PM |
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osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au>
Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
It would be interesting to see your source of information.
99.1% on the irony meter.
Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
Why would it be of concern? We have not noticed from you any great
interest in the truth. On any subject.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
04 Jun 2007 10:47:21 PM |
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On 03 Jun 2007 23:56:16 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
Why would it be of concern? We have not noticed from you any great
interest in the truth. On any subject.
You don't consider sweeping floors a subject?
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
04 Jun 2007 11:32:20 PM |
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Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
Why would it be of concern? We have not noticed from you any great
interest in the truth. On any subject.
You don't consider sweeping floors a subject?
His notion of sweeping floors would be to ignore all of the dirt until
somebody criticized him for being a slob, and then whine that "lie-berals"
hadn't swept up his floor.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
05 Jun 2007 07:39:52 AM |
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On 05 Jun 2007 04:32:20 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
Why would it be of concern? We have not noticed from you any great
interest in the truth. On any subject.
You don't consider sweeping floors a subject?
His notion of sweeping floors would be to ignore all of the dirt until
somebody criticized him for being a slob, and then whine that "lie-berals"
hadn't swept up his floor.
Well ... he does (if we're to believe him) have a civil service job.
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| User: "bob&carole" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
05 Jun 2007 12:02:16 AM |
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On Jun 5, 12:32?am, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
osprey <noneedtok...@mail.com> wrote:
Since I
work in Corrections and I have worked the death row areas years ago,
this is a subject that is of interest to me.
Why would it be of concern? We have not noticed from you any great
interest in the truth. On any subject.
You don't consider sweeping floors a subject?
His notion of sweeping floors would be to ignore all of the dirt until
somebody criticized him for being a slob, and then whine that "lie-berals"
hadn't swept up his floor.
ray-ray should know, he's swept floors all his life!
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| User: "Robert" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 12:09:00 PM |
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On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 15:39:00 +0930, Meteorite Debris
<epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOES.net.au> wrote:
Last time that great scribe bobandcarole <bobandcarole007@hotmail.com>
chipped away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....
Neither does an innocient falsely convicted. Remember that between 7%
and 12 % of DP cases were false convictions and almost all of them
convicted because they were poor. DP does NOT apply to the rich.
So very true, if O.J. had of been a poor white man, he would have
been executed by now. But California did not seek the death penalty.
Check up on the Cullen Davis trials. I have never heard of a wealthy
person being executed.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 02:15:31 AM |
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On Jun 2, 3:42 pm, bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 1:32?am, "Avenger" <aven...@avengers.co.uk> wrote:
"bobandcarole" <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180761385.526304.75360@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Thursday, May. 31, 2007
Last week, the Louisiana Supreme Court upheld the death penalty as
applied to a child abuser. Louisiana has led the way in passing laws
to execute pedophiles. However, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Georgia,
and
Montana also have passed such laws, with Texas soon to follow when
Gov. Rick Perry signs such legislation.
A major impetus for the death penalty in child sex cases is the
heinous crime by a previously-convicted sex offender against Florida
nine-year old Jessica Lunsford, who suffered horrific abuse,
including
burial alive in a shallow grave, where she eventually suffocated.
If there is a way to measure the temperature of public opinion
against
child abuse, this is it, and it bodes well for children, even if it
is
not the most effective way of protecting children.
There are only a handful of these sort of cases causing all the hysteria and
besides Murder is a capital offence in all places.
Concerns with the Death Penalty Legislation, and Priorities in the
Fight Against Child Abuse
Some have expressed concern that if the penalty for pedophilia is
raised to death, children may be deterred from reporting abuse,
especially when it is committed by a relative. Yet such a small
percentage of child sex abuse victims report their abuse at this
point
- estimates run about 10% -- that one has to wonder about the
marginal
effect of the death penalty. Kids already are terrified to report,
usually because they are threatened by their abusers, so this shift
in
the law would seem to make little difference.
My concern, however, is that pedophile-death-penalty laws are, in the
end, a distraction from what needs to be done to truly protect the
most children possible, the most effectively. It's important to
remember that the difference between a pedophile in jail and one put
to death, from a child's perspective, is negligible - in either case,
children are safe from that perpetrator.
Moreover, the main problem we currently have when it comes to
pedophilia (and this is an element in the huge and powerful response
to Jessica Lunsford's death) is that we are not succeeding in
identifying many of the perpetrators that are out there.
As I discussed in a previous column, legislative reform for children
is not hitting at the heart of the problem - the anonymity of the
predators, which is guaranteed by overly short statutes of
limitations. Megan's Law created public lists of sex offenders, but
those lists are woefully short, because the statute of limitations in
the vast majority of child sex abuse cases runs long before the
victim
has the ability to come forward to anyone, and without a criminal
conviction, an offender cannot be placed on any state-maintained
Megan's List. The result is that thousands upon thousands of
predators
are out there, unidentified to unsuspecting families and children.
You can't put someone on a list merely on suspicion. Besides I don't know
what good it will do. People living in certain areas generally know who the
perverts are anyway.
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Pedophilia =/= child molestor. Most child molestors are 'situational',
ie they're rapists that used a children because it was the only thing
available/that they could get away with/that was weak enough to be
used.
Pedophilia is simply sexual attraction to children, that's all. If all
pedophiles are child molestors, are all homosexuals rapists?
.
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| User: "bob&carole" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 02:21:45 AM |
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On Jun 2, 3:15?am, wrote:
On Jun 2, 3:42 pm, bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 1:32?am, "Avenger" <aven...@avengers.co.uk> wrote:
"bobandcarole" <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180761385.526304.75360@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Thursday, May. 31, 2007
Last week, the Louisiana Supreme Court upheld the death penalty as
applied to a child abuser. Louisiana has led the way in passing laws
to execute pedophiles. However, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Georgia,
and
Montana also have passed such laws, with Texas soon to follow when
Gov. Rick Perry signs such legislation.
A major impetus for the death penalty in child sex cases is the
heinous crime by a previously-convicted sex offender against Florida
nine-year old Jessica Lunsford, who suffered horrific abuse,
including
burial alive in a shallow grave, where she eventually suffocated.
If there is a way to measure the temperature of public opinion
against
child abuse, this is it, and it bodes well for children, even if it
is
not the most effective way of protecting children.
There are only a handful of these sort of cases causing all the hysteria and
besides Murder is a capital offence in all places.
Concerns with the Death Penalty Legislation, and Priorities in the
Fight Against Child Abuse
Some have expressed concern that if the penalty for pedophilia is
raised to death, children may be deterred from reporting abuse,
especially when it is committed by a relative. Yet such a small
percentage of child sex abuse victims report their abuse at this
point
- estimates run about 10% -- that one has to wonder about the
marginal
effect of the death penalty. Kids already are terrified to report,
usually because they are threatened by their abusers, so this shift
in
the law would seem to make little difference.
My concern, however, is that pedophile-death-penalty laws are, in the
end, a distraction from what needs to be done to truly protect the
most children possible, the most effectively. It's important to
remember that the difference between a pedophile in jail and one put
to death, from a child's perspective, is negligible - in either case,
children are safe from that perpetrator.
Moreover, the main problem we currently have when it comes to
pedophilia (and this is an element in the huge and powerful response
to Jessica Lunsford's death) is that we are not succeeding in
identifying many of the perpetrators that are out there.
As I discussed in a previous column, legislative reform for children
is not hitting at the heart of the problem - the anonymity of the
predators, which is guaranteed by overly short statutes of
limitations. Megan's Law created public lists of sex offenders, but
those lists are woefully short, because the statute of limitations in
the vast majority of child sex abuse cases runs long before the
victim
has the ability to come forward to anyone, and without a criminal
conviction, an offender cannot be placed on any state-maintained
Megan's List. The result is that thousands upon thousands of
predators
are out there, unidentified to unsuspecting families and children.
You can't put someone on a list merely on suspicion. Besides I don't know
what good it will do. People living in certain areas generally know who the
perverts are anyway.
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Pedophilia =/= child molestor. Most child molestors are 'situational',
ie they're rapists that used a children because it was the only thing
available/that they could get away with/that was weak enough to be
used.
So what's your point? Baby raping is acceptable if a child
is all that's available to the queer pervert?
Pedophilia is simply sexual attraction to children, that's all. If all
pedophiles are child molestors, are all homosexuals rapists?
In a word...YES....
.
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| User: "Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister" |
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| Title: Re: FINALLY.. a pedophile law that fits the crime... |
02 Jun 2007 07:24:24 AM |
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On Jun 2, 8:15 am, wrote:
On Jun 2, 3:42 pm, bobandcarole <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 2, 1:32?am, "Avenger" <aven...@avengers.co.uk> wrote:
"bobandcarole" <bobandcarole...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180761385.526304.75360@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Thursday, May. 31, 2007
Last week, the Louisiana Supreme Court upheld the death penalty as
applied to a child abuser. Louisiana has led the way in passing laws
to execute pedophiles. However, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Georgia,
and
Montana also have passed such laws, with Texas soon to follow when
Gov. Rick Perry signs such legislation.
A major impetus for the death penalty in child sex cases is the
heinous crime by a previously-convicted sex offender against Florida
nine-year old Jessica Lunsford, who suffered horrific abuse,
including
burial alive in a shallow grave, where she eventually suffocated.
If there is a way to measure the temperature of public opinion
against
child abuse, this is it, and it bodes well for children, even if it
is
not the most effective way of protecting children.
There are only a handful of these sort of cases causing all the hysteria and
besides Murder is a capital offence in all places.
Concerns with the Death Penalty Legislation, and Priorities in the
Fight Against Child Abuse
Some have expressed concern that if the penalty for pedophilia is
raised to death, children may be deterred from reporting abuse,
especially when it is committed by a relative. Yet such a small
percentage of child sex abuse victims report their abuse at this
point
- estimates run about 10% -- that one has to wonder about the
marginal
effect of the death penalty. Kids already are terrified to report,
usually because they are threatened by their abusers, so this shift
in
the law would seem to make little difference.
My concern, however, is that pedophile-death-penalty laws are, in the
end, a distraction from what needs to be done to truly protect the
most children possible, the most effectively. It's important to
remember that the difference between a pedophile in jail and one put
to death, from a child's perspective, is negligible - in either case,
children are safe from that perpetrator.
Moreover, the main problem we currently have when it comes to
pedophilia (and this is an element in the huge and powerful response
to Jessica Lunsford's death) is that we are not succeeding in
identifying many of the perpetrators that are out there.
As I discussed in a previous column, legislative reform for children
is not hitting at the heart of the problem - the anonymity of the
predators, which is guaranteed by overly short statutes of
limitations. Megan's Law created public lists of sex offenders, but
those lists are woefully short, because the statute of limitations in
the vast majority of child sex abuse cases runs long before the
victim
has the ability to come forward to anyone, and without a criminal
conviction, an offender cannot be placed on any state-maintained
Megan's List. The result is that thousands upon thousands of
predators
are out there, unidentified to unsuspecting families and children.
You can't put someone on a list merely on suspicion. Besides I don't know
what good it will do. People living in certain areas generally know who the
perverts are anyway.
Baby rapers are incurable, a dead pedophile doesn't molest boys.....- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Pedophilia =/= child molestor. Most child molestors are 'situational',
ie they're rapists that used a children because it was the only thing
available/that they could get away with/that was weak enough to be
used.
Pedophilia is simply sexual attraction to children, that's all. If all
pedophiles are child molestors, are all homosexuals rapists?
Paedophilia is not "simply" anything. It's a label actually coined by
paedophiles themselves in order to try and rationalise and legitimise
their behaviour. The use of the term is as unhelpful as the term
"kiddie-fiddler" or "nonce".
What it is, is a repeat pattern of abuse, and if people cannot break
it by taking responsibility for their own behaviour, and do not have
the empathy to realise the effect they have on their victims, then
there are other things wrong with them.
People who sexually abuse children need to be kept away from children,
and each other - permanently. The real solution to this problem is
openness, honesty and visibility e.g. Megan's Law, which would work
much better if it wasn't for fuckwits like "Bob&Carole".
.
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