Science > Abortion > Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"david ford" |
| Date: |
16 Aug 2004 09:16:01 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
John Harshman <jharshman.diespamdie@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<411F7D9A.6090502@pacbell.net>...
MurphyInOhio wrote:
Though advanced in years, the Holy Father is even more advanced in measuring
himself against Evolutionism and its Death Sciences: Abortion, Euthanasia.
A few facts:
1. You are one sick puppy.
2. The pope has explicitly spoken out to accept evolutionary biology.
A Pope has explicitly spoken out against evolution as it is conceived
by Gould, Dawkins, Lewontin, E. O. Wilson, Futuyma, Dennett, Haldane,
Oparin, Stebbins, Julian Huxley, T. H. Huxley, Crick, Simpson, and
Sagan.
3. Evolutionary biology has nothing to do with abortion or euthanasia.
All secular humanists are evolutionists. Secular humanism has
everything to do with abortion and euthanasia. Secular humanist Bette
Chambers noted that Margaret Sanger was named 1957 Humanist of the
Year, while Dr Jack Kevorkian was named 1994 Humanist Hero. Chambers
mentioned as examples of "humanistic changes" some "states...
recognizing... individuals' rights to choose the manner and time of
their demise" and "abortion rights established by law" [try instead,
initially established by judicial decree, with Supreme Court justices
posing as legislators].
Chambers is cited in
Morain, Lloyd and Mary. 1998. _Humanism As the Next Step_
(Amherst, New York: Humanist Press), 145pp., 29-30.
4. The story below doesn't mention evolution even once.
5. Aljazeera?
Lourdes moved as ailing pope falters
Sunday 15 August 2004, Aljazeera.net
Pope John Paul II has made a plea for life to be protected during his two-day
visit to Lourdes, as his health showed further signs of failing.
During an open air mass on Sunday at a shrine to Mary, the highlight of his
visit to the French town, he struggled as he spoke against abortion and
euthanasia, making a special appeal to women.
"To you women, falls the task of being sentinels of the invisible," he told
about 300,000 pilgrims.
"I urgently appeal to all of you, dear brothers and sisters, to do everything
in your power to ensure that life, each and every life, will be respected from
conception to its natural end.
"Life is a sacred gift, and no one can presume to be its master," he added.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
20 Aug 2004 11:04:01 AM |
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(david ford) wrote
John Harshman wrote
MurphyInOhio wrote:
[T]he Holy Father is even more advanced in measuring himself
against Evolutionism and its Death Sciences: Abortion, Euthanasia.
A few facts:
2. The pope has explicitly spoken out to accept evolutionary biology.
A Pope has [explicitly rejected ...]
The Pope has stated that humans have God-given souls and that our existance
is not merely due to random chance.
Beyond that he sees no conflict between the concept of biological
evolution and Christian faith.
3. Evolutionary biology has nothing to do with abortion or euthanasia.
All secular humanists are evolutionists.
As someone else pointed out: all trout are fish.
Secular humanism has
everything to do with abortion and euthanasia. Secular humanist Bette
Chambers noted that Margaret Sanger was named 1957 Humanist of the Year,
And Margaret Sanger has /what/ to do with abortion or euthanasia?
Arguably she supported eugenics, but neither abortion or euthanasia.
4. The story below doesn't mention evolution even once.
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
25 Aug 2004 10:23:50 AM |
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In article <32b62d2d.0408200815.628f84ab@posting.google.com>,
wrote:
<snip>
The Pope has stated that humans have God-given souls and that our existance
is not merely due to random chance.
Beyond that he sees no conflict between the concept of biological
evolution and Christian faith.
<snip>
Aside from _that_ Widow Lincoln how did you like the play?
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
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| User: "Eric Rowley" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
25 Aug 2004 01:36:44 PM |
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From: Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com>:
WB> In article <32b62d2d.0408200815.628f84ab@posting.google.com>,
WB> wrote:
WB> <snip>
WB> > The Pope has stated that humans have God-given souls and that
WB> > our existance is not merely due to random chance.
WB> > Beyond that he sees no conflict between the concept of
WB> > biological evolution and Christian faith. <snip>
WB> Aside from _that_ Widow Lincoln how did you like the play?
WB> --
WB> Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
So how did Booth get the car into the theater?
Eric
Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.
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| User: "Von Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
25 Aug 2004 05:39:25 PM |
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(Eric Rowley) wrote in message news:<WinLMSG.412cdba4.2698.16b@news.individual.net>...
From: Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com>:
WB> In article <32b62d2d.0408200815.628f84ab@posting.google.com>,
WB> wrote:
WB> <snip>
WB> > The Pope has stated that humans have God-given souls and that
WB> > our existance is not merely due to random chance.
WB> > Beyond that he sees no conflict between the concept of
WB> > biological evolution and Christian faith. <snip>
WB> Aside from _that_ Widow Lincoln how did you like the play?
WB> --
WB> Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
So how did Booth get the car into the theater?
Maybe it was a drive-in. It is called Ford's Theater, after all.
Von Smith
Guns don't kill people. Theorists do.
-(After a recent Chez Watt nomination)
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
26 Aug 2004 12:21:34 AM |
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In article <WinLMSG.412cdba4.2698.16b@news.individual.net>,
(Eric Rowley) wrote:
From: Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com>:
WB> In article <32b62d2d.0408200815.628f84ab@posting.google.com>,
WB> wrote:
WB> <snip>
WB> > The Pope has stated that humans have God-given souls and that
WB> > our existance is not merely due to random chance.
WB> > Beyond that he sees no conflict between the concept of
WB> > biological evolution and Christian faith. <snip>
WB> Aside from _that_ Widow Lincoln how did you like the play?
WB> --
WB> Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
So how did Booth get the car into the theater?
Eric
Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.
OBSF: Time machine, of course.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
27 Aug 2004 10:09:10 AM |
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Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote
morphis@physics.niu.edu wrote:
<snip>
The Pope has stated that humans have God-given souls and that our existance
is not merely due to random chance.
Beyond that he sees no conflict between the concept of biological
evolution and Christian faith.
<snip>
Aside from _that_ Widow Lincoln how did you like the play?
Biological evolution says nothing about souls, the evidence (i.e. the
bushiness of evolution) does not indicate a guiding hand, but neither
can it entirely rule it out (particularly since we are speaking of an
omnipotent and omniscient guiding hand).
And indeed the Pope didn't argue that every detail of our existance
(how many chromosomes, the ratio of the length of the our feet to the
length of our noses ...) was dictated.
He didn't (and I don't) see any significant conflicts in the facts, only
in the interpretation of those facts, whether we are purely the result
of random processes, or not.
If you have a substantial argument to make, do so.
(Though I can't promise to respond, classes have started)
Robert
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
28 Aug 2004 09:30:52 PM |
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In article <32b62d2d.0408270721.6f06585@posting.google.com>,
wrote:
<snip>
Biological evolution says nothing about souls, the evidence (i.e. the
bushiness of evolution) does not indicate a guiding hand, but neither
can it entirely rule it out (particularly since we are speaking of an
omnipotent and omniscient guiding hand).
<snip>
God of the gaps is such a loser attitude. To have life evolve to humans
(or wherever ) and having to add souls which seem to have no physical
significance seems (in the words of Anna Russel) "excessively
unattractive. "
I suppose my objections are aesthetic and theological.
It is also the case we cannot prove that the planets are guided by
angels, or that Jesus is the strong force that hold atoms together.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
29 Aug 2004 04:49:43 PM |
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Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com>wrote
morphis@physics.niu.edu wrote:
<snip>
Biological evolution says nothing about souls, the evidence (i.e. the
bushiness of evolution) does not indicate a guiding hand, but neither
can it entirely rule it out (particularly since we are speaking of an
omnipotent and omniscient guiding hand).
<snip>
<unsnip>
And indeed the Pope didn't argue that every detail of our existance
(how many chromosomes, the ratio of the length of the our feet to the
length of our noses ...) was dictated.
after all it rains on both the righteous and the sinful ...
He didn't (and I don't) see any significant conflicts in the facts, only
in the interpretation of those facts, whether we are purely the result
of random processes, or not.
If you have a substantial argument to make, do so.
God of the gaps is such a loser attitude. To have life evolve to humans
(or wherever ) and having to add souls which seem to have no physical
significance seems (in the words of Anna Russel) "excessively
unattractive. "
There appears to be two 'l's in her last name. When I get more time
I am going to have to find an album of hers to listen to, she sounds
very, ahhhh, interesting :-).
I suppose my objections are aesthetic and theological.
I'm not terribly interested in your sense of aesthetics, nor do I see
anything that might pass as theology. As I said, if you have an argument
based on substance, make it.
The only conflict with facts is whether or not to take literally
a clearly poetic account (Gen 1+) and perhaps the most mythopoeic
chapters (Gen 2-11) in the whole of the Bible, (a set of books written
by a people steeped in analogy and parable, who understood the difference
between truth and fact. (let's see if that ruffles any feathers:-)).
There are those who do take those chapters literally and, as long as
they realize that that is a position of faith, not of physical evidence,
I don't have a big problem with that.
As for myself, despite all the Windex I use I am stuck with seeing
as through a dark glass. Which is to say, there is a lot I don't
fully understand, but I have faith and, when it is called for, follow
Cardinal Bellarmine's advice:
I say that if a real proof be found that the sun is fixed and does
not revolve round the earth, but the earth round the sun, then it
will be necessary, very carefully, to proceed to the explanation of
the passages of Scripture which appear to be contrary, and we
should rather say that we have misunderstood these than pronounce
that to be false which is demonstrated.
Robert
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
29 Aug 2004 09:17:02 PM |
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In article <32b62d2d.0408291402.61ff2bc0@posting.google.com>,
wrote:
<snip>
after all it rains on both the righteous and the sinful ...
<Snip>
The bombs fall on the just
And the the unjust fellow,
But mainly on the just.
Because the unjust is in
The just man's cellar.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
29 Aug 2004 10:38:31 PM |
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Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
In article <32b62d2d.0408291402.61ff2bc0@posting.google.com>,
morphis@physics.niu.edu wrote:
<snip>
after all it rains on both the righteous and the sinful ...
<Snip>
The bombs fall on the just
And the the unjust fellow,
But mainly on the just.
Because the unjust is in
The just man's cellar.
The rain it falls on the just and unjust feller
But mainly on the just because
The unjust stole the just's umbrella
--
John S. Wilkins
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
God cheats
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
08 Sep 2004 10:50:54 PM |
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In article <1gjc3t5.12nejdoazqpu5N%>,
(John Wilkins) wrote:
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
In article <32b62d2d.0408291402.61ff2bc0@posting.google.com>,
morphis@physics.niu.edu wrote:
<snip>
after all it rains on both the righteous and the sinful ...
<Snip>
The bombs fall on the just
And the the unjust fellow,
But mainly on the just.
Because the unjust is in
The just man's cellar.
The rain it falls on the just and unjust feller
But mainly on the just because
The unjust stole the just's umbrella
Actually the most famous alleged source of this saying
came from a dessert region, where it was _good_ to be rained
on.
--
Guns don't kill people; automobiles kill people.
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| User: "Double Felix" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
08 Sep 2004 11:19:57 PM |
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In article <proto-399D32.23524608092004@reader1.panix.com>,
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
In article <1gjc3t5.12nejdoazqpu5N%johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au>,
johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
In article <32b62d2d.0408291402.61ff2bc0@posting.google.com>,
morphis@physics.niu.edu wrote:
<snip>
after all it rains on both the righteous and the sinful ...
<Snip>
The bombs fall on the just
And the the unjust fellow,
But mainly on the just.
Because the unjust is in
The just man's cellar.
The rain it falls on the just and unjust feller
But mainly on the just because
The unjust stole the just's umbrella
Actually the most famous alleged source of this saying
came from a dessert region, where it was _good_ to be rained
on.
Mmmm... dessert region...
- Felix
"Before you judge a man, first walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he
gets mad, he'll be a mile away and you'll have his shoes."
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
09 Sep 2004 12:17:31 AM |
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Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
In article <1gjc3t5.12nejdoazqpu5N%johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au>,
johnSPAM@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
In article <32b62d2d.0408291402.61ff2bc0@posting.google.com>,
morphis@physics.niu.edu wrote:
<snip>
after all it rains on both the righteous and the sinful ...
<Snip>
The bombs fall on the just
And the the unjust fellow,
But mainly on the just.
Because the unjust is in
The just man's cellar.
The rain it falls on the just and unjust feller
But mainly on the just because
The unjust stole the just's umbrella
Actually the most famous alleged source of this saying
came from a dessert region, where it was _good_ to be rained
^^^^^^^
on.
They say the proof is in the pudding. Or are you starting a flambe war?
--
John S. Wilkins
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
God cheats
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| User: "Richard Forrest" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
18 Aug 2004 01:42:44 AM |
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(david ford) wrote in message news:<dford3-b1c67abe.0408161826.47fa8898@posting.google.com>...
John Harshman <jharshman.diespamdie@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<411F7D9A.6090502@pacbell.net>...
MurphyInOhio wrote:
Though advanced in years, the Holy Father is even more advanced in measuring
himself against Evolutionism and its Death Sciences: Abortion, Euthanasia.
A few facts:
1. You are one sick puppy.
2. The pope has explicitly spoken out to accept evolutionary biology.
A Pope has explicitly spoken out against evolution as it is conceived
by Gould, Dawkins, Lewontin, E. O. Wilson, Futuyma, Dennett, Haldane,
Oparin, Stebbins, Julian Huxley, T. H. Huxley, Crick, Simpson, and
Sagan.
3. Evolutionary biology has nothing to do with abortion or euthanasia.
Dear David
Please see if you can find the flaw in the following argument:
1) all mackerel are fish
2) therefore all fish are mackerel
It may stretch your brain a bit to spot the flaw, but I'm sure that if
you persist you will find it rewarding,
RF
All secular humanists are evolutionists. Secular humanism has
everything to do with abortion and euthanasia. Secular humanist Bette
Chambers noted that Margaret Sanger was named 1957 Humanist of the
Year, while Dr Jack Kevorkian was named 1994 Humanist Hero. Chambers
mentioned as examples of "humanistic changes" some "states...
recognizing... individuals' rights to choose the manner and time of
their demise" and "abortion rights established by law" [try instead,
initially established by judicial decree, with Supreme Court justices
posing as legislators].
Chambers is cited in
Morain, Lloyd and Mary. 1998. _Humanism As the Next Step_
(Amherst, New York: Humanist Press), 145pp., 29-30.
4. The story below doesn't mention evolution even once.
5. Aljazeera?
Lourdes moved as ailing pope falters
Sunday 15 August 2004, Aljazeera.net
Pope John Paul II has made a plea for life to be protected during his two-day
visit to Lourdes, as his health showed further signs of failing.
During an open air mass on Sunday at a shrine to Mary, the highlight of his
visit to the French town, he struggled as he spoke against abortion and
euthanasia, making a special appeal to women.
"To you women, falls the task of being sentinels of the invisible," he told
about 300,000 pilgrims.
"I urgently appeal to all of you, dear brothers and sisters, to do everything
in your power to ensure that life, each and every life, will be respected from
conception to its natural end.
"Life is a sacred gift, and no one can presume to be its master," he added.
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| User: "syvanen" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
17 Aug 2004 06:07:06 PM |
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(david ford) wrote in message news:<dford3-b1c67abe.0408161826.47fa8898@posting.google.com>...
John Harshman <jharshman.diespamdie@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<411F7D9A.6090502@pacbell.net>...
MurphyInOhio wrote:
Though advanced in years, the Holy Father is even more advanced in measuring
himself against Evolutionism and its Death Sciences: Abortion, Euthanasia.
A few facts:
1. You are one sick puppy.
2. The pope has explicitly spoken out to accept evolutionary biology.
A Pope has explicitly spoken out against evolution as it is conceived
by Gould, Dawkins, Lewontin, E. O. Wilson, Futuyma, Dennett, Haldane,
Oparin, Stebbins, Julian Huxley, T. H. Huxley, Crick, Simpson, and
Sagan.
3. Evolutionary biology has nothing to do with abortion or euthanasia.
All secular humanists are evolutionists. Secular humanism has
everything to do with abortion and euthanasia. Secular humanist Bette
Chambers noted that Margaret Sanger was named 1957 Humanist of the
Year, while Dr Jack Kevorkian was named 1994 Humanist Hero. Chambers
mentioned as examples of "humanistic changes" some "states...
recognizing... individuals' rights to choose the manner and time of
their demise" and "abortion rights established by law" [try instead,
initially established by judicial decree, with Supreme Court justices
posing as legislators].
All secular humanists eat or have eaten bananas. Secular humanism has
everything to do with abortion and euthanasia. Secular humanist Bette
Chambers noted that Margaret Sanger was named 1957 Humanist of the
Year, while Dr Jack Kevorkian was named 1994 Humanist Hero. Chambers
mentioned as examples of "humanistic changes" some "states...
recognizing... individuals' rights to choose the manner and time of
their demise" and "abortion rights established by law" [try instead,
initially established by judicial decree, with Supreme Court justices
posing as legislators].
By my gosh, this proves it.
Mike Syvanen
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: Holy Father Stands Against Evolution Death Sciences |
17 Aug 2004 11:12:02 PM |
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syvanen <syvanen@ucdavis.edu> wrote:
dford3@gl.umbc.edu (david ford) wrote...
John Harshman <jharshman.diespamdie@pacbell.net> wrote...
MurphyInOhio wrote:
Though advanced in years, the Holy Father is even more advanced in
measuring himself against Evolutionism and its Death Sciences:
Abortion, Euthanasia.
A few facts:
1. You are one sick puppy.
2. The pope has explicitly spoken out to accept evolutionary biology.
A Pope has explicitly spoken out against evolution as it is conceived
by Gould, Dawkins, Lewontin, E. O. Wilson, Futuyma, Dennett, Haldane,
Oparin, Stebbins, Julian Huxley, T. H. Huxley, Crick, Simpson, and
Sagan.
3. Evolutionary biology has nothing to do with abortion or euthanasia.
All secular humanists are evolutionists. Secular humanism has
everything to do with abortion and euthanasia. Secular humanist Bette
Chambers noted that Margaret Sanger was named 1957 Humanist of the
Year, while Dr Jack Kevorkian was named 1994 Humanist Hero. Chambers
mentioned as examples of "humanistic changes" some "states...
recognizing... individuals' rights to choose the manner and time of
their demise" and "abortion rights established by law" [try instead,
initially established by judicial decree, with Supreme Court justices
posing as legislators].
All secular humanists eat or have eaten bananas. Secular humanism has
everything to do with abortion and euthanasia. Secular humanist Bette
Chambers noted that Margaret Sanger was named 1957 Humanist of the
Year, while Dr Jack Kevorkian was named 1994 Humanist Hero. Chambers
mentioned as examples of "humanistic changes" some "states...
recognizing... individuals' rights to choose the manner and time of
their demise" and "abortion rights established by law" [try instead,
initially established by judicial decree, with Supreme Court justices
posing as legislators].
By my gosh, this proves it.
Mike Syvanen
Prior to bananas, there were no atomic bombs, no germ warfare, no
napalm, and no liberals. Atheism relies on bananas. Abortion depends on
banana quasireligion. Bananas have no sex, and so are promoting the
homosexual agenda. They are touchy feely. Bananas have been condemned by
the Pope and the Dalai Lama. George W. Bush never eats bananas. Hitler
did. The Holocaust is due to bananas. Bananas are against the US car
industry as they make really bad tires. Bananas are eaten by monkeys.
Buddhists eat bananas, and so do communists. The liberal wishy washy
slugs that were put on the Supreme Court by Clinton use bananas as sex
toys. Secular humanists sell bananas to little kids in playgrounds. When
mixed with drugs, bananas are used by indigents and criminals for a
high. Bananas are sexually suggestive, and can be used to simulate
stripteases. People who eat bananas die. The Bible is against bananas.
Ban them now, and reintroduce good old fashioned American Apple Pie.
--
John S. Wilkins
web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
Post banana, ergo propter banana.
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