| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Doug Bashford" |
| Date: |
21 Jun 2007 10:55:20 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Michael Moore runs away from Debate |
Now, for the rest of the story....
'Sicko' spat reaches fever pitch
DeLay calls Moore 'chicken' for cancelling debate
By WILLIAM TRIPLETT
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117967397.html?categoryId=13&cs=1
"Guess he didn't expect anyone to seriously take him on,"
DeLay wrote on his Web site. "Had I known he was this chicken, I
would have accepted on the spot, but at least I can spare myself
the agony of watching one of his mockumentaries. Bottom line: his
movies, his politics, and his incessant bullying are all an act."
Moore replied that the debate was originally set up with Billy
Tauzin, a former congressman who is now head of the enormously
influential pharmaceuticals industry lobby.
"Instead of informing the viewers that Mr. Tauzin would not
debate me and allowing me on the air, [ABC] proposed a debate
with Tom Delay, a man who currently has nothing to do with the
specific issues raised in the film Sicko and is under
indictment," Moore said in a statement. "We will be happy to
debate Delay in whatever prison he ultimately relocates to and
allow ABC to cover that debate -- but with regards to this
weekend we would certainly not agree to his demands that he be
given a digital copy of the movie."
==================
"Sicko," Flawed but Brilliant -- 9 hours ago
by Matt Cooper
I can feel Tom DeLay shudder. I thought it was a great film,
flawed deeply, as Moore's films are but with an important message
nonetheless. ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-cooper/sicko-flawed-bu_b_53190.html
....Here it was those who have lost everything because of a
health care system that leaves nearly 50 million Americans
without insurance and most of the rest of us wondering what will
be covered and what won't be and what would happen should we ever
lose the insurance. As always, there are villains: In this
case it's the HMO industry, the insurance companies, big pharma
and the politicians who enable them.
Hillary Clinton, for whom my wife works, is praised for taking on
health care and then skewered for dropping it after the Clinton
administration proposal went down in flames. She's beaten up
for accepting industry money.
........Moore's on to something deep and true and powerful. The
American health care system is a mess, on that we all agree.
We are the only Western country that doesn't provide universal
care and allows its citizens to descend into poverty if they face
a life threatening illness.
The horror stories in Sicko are all too real -- the woman who is
denied reimbursement for an ambulance ride after a car accident
because it wasn't "pre-approved," the insurance company that will
pay for only one cochlear implant for a baby losing its hearing
(until the father threatens to sick Moore on them).
I wound myself a bit weepy when hearing the stories of Canadians
and Brits who visit the hospital, get treated and walk out
without ever seeing a bill and who are utterly bemused when Moore
brilliantly asks them if their HMO signed off on their treatment
or how they'll pay the bill. Moore asks the right question:
Why can't we be free from this worry? ........snips
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| User: "Guy" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore runs away from Debate |
22 Jun 2007 12:57:26 AM |
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"Doug Bashford" <playing@always.edu> wrote in message
news:SfOdnV_E7ZGt1ebbnZ2dnUVZ_sCinZ2d@pghconnect.com...
Now, for the rest of the story....
'Sicko' spat reaches fever pitch
DeLay calls Moore 'chicken' for cancelling debate
By WILLIAM TRIPLETT
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117967397.html?categoryId=13&cs=1
"Guess he didn't expect anyone to seriously take him on,"
DeLay wrote on his Web site. "Had I known he was this chicken, I
would have accepted on the spot, but at least I can spare myself
the agony of watching one of his mockumentaries. Bottom line: his
movies, his politics, and his incessant bullying are all an act."
Moore replied that the debate was originally set up with Billy
Tauzin, a former congressman who is now head of the enormously
influential pharmaceuticals industry lobby.
"Instead of informing the viewers that Mr. Tauzin would not
debate me and allowing me on the air, [ABC] proposed a debate
with Tom Delay, a man who currently has nothing to do with the
specific issues raised in the film Sicko and is under
indictment," Moore said in a statement. "We will be happy to
debate Delay in whatever prison he ultimately relocates to and
allow ABC to cover that debate -- but with regards to this
weekend we would certainly not agree to his demands that he be
given a digital copy of the movie."
==================
"Sicko," Flawed but Brilliant -- 9 hours ago
by Matt Cooper
I can feel Tom DeLay shudder. I thought it was a great film,
flawed deeply, as Moore's films are but with an important message
nonetheless. ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-cooper/sicko-flawed-bu_b_53190.html
....Here it was those who have lost everything because of a
health care system that leaves nearly 50 million Americans
without insurance and most of the rest of us wondering what will
be covered and what won't be and what would happen should we ever
lose the insurance. As always, there are villains: In this
case it's the HMO industry, the insurance companies, big pharma
and the politicians who enable them.
Hillary Clinton, for whom my wife works, is praised for taking on
health care and then skewered for dropping it after the Clinton
administration proposal went down in flames. She's beaten up
for accepting industry money.
.......Moore's on to something deep and true and powerful. The
American health care system is a mess, on that we all agree.
We are the only Western country that doesn't provide universal
care and allows its citizens to descend into poverty if they face
a life threatening illness.
The horror stories in Sicko are all too real -- the woman who is
denied reimbursement for an ambulance ride after a car accident
because it wasn't "pre-approved," the insurance company that will
pay for only one cochlear implant for a baby losing its hearing
(until the father threatens to sick Moore on them).
I wound myself a bit weepy when hearing the stories of Canadians
and Brits who visit the hospital, get treated and walk out
without ever seeing a bill and who are utterly bemused when Moore
brilliantly asks them if their HMO signed off on their treatment
or how they'll pay the bill. Moore asks the right question:
Why can't we be free from this worry? ........snips
Excellent point!! When one has a health problem, the main worry in Canada is
what is the most appropriate treatment. Here in the U.S., the first question
is who will pay for the treatment. Often, the choice of treatment is
dictated by asffordability, not which is most effective.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore runs away from Debate |
22 Jun 2007 12:48:25 PM |
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Guy <nospam@nospam.us> wrote:
Excellent point!! When one has a health problem, the main worry in Canada is
what is the most appropriate treatment. Here in the U.S., the first question
is who will pay for the treatment. Often, the choice of treatment is
dictated by asffordability, not which is most effective.
That's why so many Americans are now going sourth of the border to get
cheap care in Mexico.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Robert" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore runs away from Debate |
22 Jun 2007 12:38:19 PM |
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On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:57:26 -0400, "Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote:
I wound myself a bit weepy when hearing the stories of Canadians
and Brits who visit the hospital, get treated and walk out
without ever seeing a bill and who are utterly bemused when Moore
brilliantly asks them if their HMO signed off on their treatment
or how they'll pay the bill. Moore asks the right question:
Why can't we be free from this worry? ........snips
Excellent point!! When one has a health problem, the main worry in Canada is
what is the most appropriate treatment. Here in the U.S., the first question
is who will pay for the treatment. Often, the choice of treatment is
dictated by asffordability, not which is most effective.
Odd, the Canadian that shared my wife's hospital room in Texas said
the big worry was living until you could get treatment. She was facing
a two year wait, for hip surgery, that would let her walk again. They
sold their home to pay for the surgery.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Guy" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore runs away from Debate |
22 Jun 2007 11:02:18 AM |
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"Robert" <robpar@netportusa.com> wrote in message
news:612o73h5fddguajjgofrm0djgiqj2kopqv@4ax.com...
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:57:26 -0400, "Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote:
I wound myself a bit weepy when hearing the stories of Canadians
and Brits who visit the hospital, get treated and walk out
without ever seeing a bill and who are utterly bemused when Moore
brilliantly asks them if their HMO signed off on their treatment
or how they'll pay the bill. Moore asks the right question:
Why can't we be free from this worry? ........snips
Excellent point!! When one has a health problem, the main worry in Canada
is
what is the most appropriate treatment. Here in the U.S., the first
question
is who will pay for the treatment. Often, the choice of treatment is
dictated by asffordability, not which is most effective.
Odd, the Canadian that shared my wife's hospital room in Texas said
the big worry was living until you could get treatment. She was facing
a two year wait, for hip surgery, that would let her walk again. They
sold their home to pay for the surgery.
Yes Canadians are dropping like flies due to long waits. Thats why Canadians
have an average life expectency of 40 years and the corpses are piling up
faster than they can be buried. of course, the left wing media doesn't want
to tell people about this because all the left wing reporters are SO anxious
to get an efficient killing system set up in this country for them and their
loved-ones.
By the way, the previous paragraph is pure ***** on my part, just like
your fable. Why would a Canadian go all the way down to Texas for
treatment? Surely, in "the best health care system in the world", there are
hospitals closer to the Canadian border.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Robert" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore runs away from Debate |
22 Jun 2007 08:46:34 PM |
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On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:02:18 -0400, "Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote:
"Robert" <robpar@netportusa.com> wrote in message
news:612o73h5fddguajjgofrm0djgiqj2kopqv@4ax.com...
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:57:26 -0400, "Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote:
I wound myself a bit weepy when hearing the stories of Canadians
and Brits who visit the hospital, get treated and walk out
without ever seeing a bill and who are utterly bemused when Moore
brilliantly asks them if their HMO signed off on their treatment
or how they'll pay the bill. Moore asks the right question:
Why can't we be free from this worry? ........snips
Excellent point!! When one has a health problem, the main worry in Canada
is
what is the most appropriate treatment. Here in the U.S., the first
question
is who will pay for the treatment. Often, the choice of treatment is
dictated by asffordability, not which is most effective.
Odd, the Canadian that shared my wife's hospital room in Texas said
the big worry was living until you could get treatment. She was facing
a two year wait, for hip surgery, that would let her walk again. They
sold their home to pay for the surgery.
Yes Canadians are dropping like flies due to long waits. Thats why Canadians
have an average life expectency of 40 years and the corpses are piling up
faster than they can be buried. of course, the left wing media doesn't want
to tell people about this because all the left wing reporters are SO anxious
to get an efficient killing system set up in this country for them and their
loved-ones.
By the way, the previous paragraph is pure ***** on my part, just like
your fable. Why would a Canadian go all the way down to Texas for
treatment? Surely, in "the best health care system in the world", there are
hospitals closer to the Canadian border.
Texas is a prime tourist destination, and medical cost is cheaper, as
is the cost of living. The Gulf coast has very mild weather, most of
the year. Every fall we are invaded by snow birds. People from the
north including Canada. And it was in the winter, day time temps in
the 60's nights in the 40's.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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| User: "booker" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore runs away from Debate |
22 Jun 2007 01:24:46 PM |
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On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:02:18 -0400, Guy wrote:
"Robert" <robpar@netportusa.com> wrote in message
news:612o73h5fddguajjgofrm0djgiqj2kopqv@4ax.com...
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:57:26 -0400, "Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote:
I wound myself a bit weepy when hearing the stories of Canadians and
Brits who visit the hospital, get treated and walk out without ever
seeing a bill and who are utterly bemused when Moore brilliantly asks
them if their HMO signed off on their treatment or how they'll pay the
bill. Moore asks the right question: Why can't we be free from
this worry? ........snips
Excellent point!! When one has a health problem, the main worry in
Canada is
what is the most appropriate treatment. Here in the U.S., the first
question
is who will pay for the treatment. Often, the choice of treatment is
dictated by asffordability, not which is most effective.
Odd, the Canadian that shared my wife's hospital room in Texas said the
big worry was living until you could get treatment. She was facing a two
year wait, for hip surgery, that would let her walk again. They sold
their home to pay for the surgery.
Yes Canadians are dropping like flies due to long waits. Thats why
Canadians have an average life expectency of 40 years and the corpses are
piling up faster than they can be buried. of course, the left wing media
doesn't want to tell people about this because all the left wing reporters
are SO anxious to get an efficient killing system set up in this country
for them and their loved-ones.
By the way, the previous paragraph is pure ***** on my part, just like
your fable. Why would a Canadian go all the way down to Texas for
treatment? Surely, in "the best health care system in the world", there
are hospitals closer to the Canadian border.
Here's some excellent reading on the subject of Canadians crossing the
border for healthcare:
<http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/21/3/19?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=phantoms&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT>
"These findings from U.S. data are supported by responses to a large
population-based health survey, the NPHS, in Canada undertaken during
our study period (1996). As noted above, 0.5 percent of respondents
indicated that they had received health care in the United States in
the prior year, but only 0.11 percent (20 of 18,000 respondents) said
that they had gone there for the purpose of obtaining any type of
health care, whether or not covered by the public plans."
<snip>
"...However, earlier analysis of Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP)
data found that most spending for medical and hospital services
received by Canadians in the United States during the early 1990s was
related to the "coincidental" basic and emergency health care services
typically used by Canadians traveling or temporarily residing in the
United States."
Regarding those supposedly long waiting lines in Canada, I found this
interesting:
"Some private insurance firms have expressed interest in offering
policies that would provide service in the United States if one had to
wait more than thirty days on a Canadian waiting list; however, there
has been no apparent demand for such policies to date."
.
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| User: "Guy" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore runs away from Debate |
22 Jun 2007 03:10:22 PM |
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"booker" <invalid@invalid.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.06.22.18.24.42.799637@invalid.com.invalid...
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:02:18 -0400, Guy wrote:
"Robert" <robpar@netportusa.com> wrote in message
news:612o73h5fddguajjgofrm0djgiqj2kopqv@4ax.com...
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:57:26 -0400, "Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote:
I wound myself a bit weepy when hearing the stories of Canadians and
Brits who visit the hospital, get treated and walk out without ever
seeing a bill and who are utterly bemused when Moore brilliantly asks
them if their HMO signed off on their treatment or how they'll pay the
bill. Moore asks the right question: Why can't we be free from
this worry? ........snips
Excellent point!! When one has a health problem, the main worry in
Canada is
what is the most appropriate treatment. Here in the U.S., the first
question
is who will pay for the treatment. Often, the choice of treatment is
dictated by asffordability, not which is most effective.
Odd, the Canadian that shared my wife's hospital room in Texas said the
big worry was living until you could get treatment. She was facing a two
year wait, for hip surgery, that would let her walk again. They sold
their home to pay for the surgery.
Yes Canadians are dropping like flies due to long waits. Thats why
Canadians have an average life expectency of 40 years and the corpses are
piling up faster than they can be buried. of course, the left wing media
doesn't want to tell people about this because all the left wing
reporters
are SO anxious to get an efficient killing system set up in this country
for them and their loved-ones.
By the way, the previous paragraph is pure ***** on my part, just like
your fable. Why would a Canadian go all the way down to Texas for
treatment? Surely, in "the best health care system in the world", there
are hospitals closer to the Canadian border.
Here's some excellent reading on the subject of Canadians crossing the
border for healthcare:
<http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/21/3/19?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=phantoms&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT>
"These findings from U.S. data are supported by responses to a large
population-based health survey, the NPHS, in Canada undertaken during
our study period (1996). As noted above, 0.5 percent of respondents
indicated that they had received health care in the United States in
the prior year, but only 0.11 percent (20 of 18,000 respondents) said
that they had gone there for the purpose of obtaining any type of
health care, whether or not covered by the public plans."
<snip>
"...However, earlier analysis of Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP)
data found that most spending for medical and hospital services
received by Canadians in the United States during the early 1990s was
related to the "coincidental" basic and emergency health care services
typically used by Canadians traveling or temporarily residing in the
United States."
Regarding those supposedly long waiting lines in Canada, I found this
interesting:
"Some private insurance firms have expressed interest in offering
policies that would provide service in the United States if one had to
wait more than thirty days on a Canadian waiting list; however, there
has been no apparent demand for such policies to date."
Good find. Thanks.
.
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| User: "Lars Eighner" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore runs away from Debate |
22 Jun 2007 03:37:46 PM |
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In our last episode,
<612o73h5fddguajjgofrm0djgiqj2kopqv@4ax.com>,
the lovely and talented Robert
broadcast on alt.politics:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:57:26 -0400, "Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote:
I wound myself a bit weepy when hearing the stories of Canadians
and Brits who visit the hospital, get treated and walk out
without ever seeing a bill and who are utterly bemused when Moore
brilliantly asks them if their HMO signed off on their treatment
or how they'll pay the bill. Moore asks the right question:
Why can't we be free from this worry? ........snips
Excellent point!! When one has a health problem, the main worry in Canada is
what is the most appropriate treatment. Here in the U.S., the first question
is who will pay for the treatment. Often, the choice of treatment is
dictated by asffordability, not which is most effective.
Odd, the Canadian that shared my wife's hospital room in Texas said
the big worry was living until you could get treatment. She was facing
a two year wait, for hip surgery, that would let her walk again. They
sold their home to pay for the surgery.
In the US, the challenge is living to be old enough to need hip replacement
surgery. Infant mortality in the US is 6.67, but only 5.36 in Canada (per
1000 population, the figures per 1000 live births are even worse 10.4 US v
7.9 Canada.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
Countdown: 577 days to go.
Owing to googlegroups not screening users to eliminate spammers and other
USENET abusers, I do not see most posts from googlegroups.
.
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| User: "John" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore runs away from Debate |
22 Jun 2007 12:26:18 PM |
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On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:38:19 -0700, Robert <robpar@netportusa.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:57:26 -0400, "Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote:
I wound myself a bit weepy when hearing the stories of Canadians
and Brits who visit the hospital, get treated and walk out
without ever seeing a bill and who are utterly bemused when Moore
brilliantly asks them if their HMO signed off on their treatment
or how they'll pay the bill. Moore asks the right question:
Why can't we be free from this worry? ........snips
Excellent point!! When one has a health problem, the main worry in Canada is
what is the most appropriate treatment. Here in the U.S., the first question
is who will pay for the treatment. Often, the choice of treatment is
dictated by asffordability, not which is most effective.
Odd, the Canadian that shared my wife's hospital room in Texas said
the big worry was living until you could get treatment. She was facing
a two year wait, for hip surgery, that would let her walk again. They
sold their home to pay for the surgery.
BS
A friend of mine just came from BC to Montreal for the same operation.
Waiting time 1 month Cost ZERO
No bad for an operation that requires no urgency.
.
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| User: "Robert" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore runs away from Debate |
22 Jun 2007 08:58:01 PM |
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On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 13:26:18 -0400, John <Ya@you.com> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:38:19 -0700, Robert <robpar@netportusa.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:57:26 -0400, "Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote:
I wound myself a bit weepy when hearing the stories of Canadians
and Brits who visit the hospital, get treated and walk out
without ever seeing a bill and who are utterly bemused when Moore
brilliantly asks them if their HMO signed off on their treatment
or how they'll pay the bill. Moore asks the right question:
Why can't we be free from this worry? ........snips
Excellent point!! When one has a health problem, the main worry in Canada is
what is the most appropriate treatment. Here in the U.S., the first question
is who will pay for the treatment. Often, the choice of treatment is
dictated by asffordability, not which is most effective.
Odd, the Canadian that shared my wife's hospital room in Texas said
the big worry was living until you could get treatment. She was facing
a two year wait, for hip surgery, that would let her walk again. They
sold their home to pay for the surgery.
BS
A friend of mine just came from BC to Montreal for the same operation.
Waiting time 1 month Cost ZERO
No bad for an operation that requires no urgency.
Hey, just reporting what I witnessed, and what I was told by a
Canadian that was very unhappy with the Canadian system.
BTW a lot of nurses and doctors here are Canadians. The visiting
nurse that checks on my wife twice a week is a native of Canada, she
has no intentions of returning to Canada. I recognize that those happy
with their lot are not inclined to complain or flee.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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