Re: "We Have No Peace Process"



 Science > Abortion > Re: "We Have No Peace Process"

LINK TO THIS PAGE  


rating :  0   |  0


  Page 1 of 1

1

 
Topic: Science > Abortion
User: "Mimi Cohen"
Date: 27 Jan 2006 07:37:45 PM
Object: Re: "We Have No Peace Process"
DoD wrote:

The denial started almost immediately after Hamas captured 57 percent of the
seats in the Palestinian parliament. Associated Press reported that "Hamas
capitalized on widespread discontent with years of Fatah corruption and
ineffectiveness. Much of its campaign focused on internal Palestinian
issues, while playing down the conflict with Israel." Secretary of State
Condoleeza Rice opined: "Palestinian people have apparently voted for
change, but we believe their aspirations for peace and a peaceful life
remain unchanged."

But what kind of peace? And how does Hamas (Harakat Muqawama Islamiyya - the
Islamic Resistance Movement) propose to rid the Palestinian Authority of
corruption? To these questions the answer has been clear for as long as
Hamas has existed; the answer to both is Islam. The Hamas Charter of August
18, 1988, quotes Hassan Al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, the
first modern Islamic terror organization and the direct forefather of Hamas:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate
it, just as it obliterated others before it." A Hamas supporter in Gaza
amplified that principle on Thursday: "We're happy that now we will have an
Islamic state. God willing, Islam will prevail and we will get rid of
corruption."

The Iranian regime of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has joined Hamas in
calling for the destruction of Israel, expressed delight at the election
outcome. An Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman said: "Iran...hopes that the
powerful presence of Hamas at the [political] scene brings about great
achievements for the Palestinian nation."

Others were not so joyful. Jasser Jasser, a Christian pharmacist in
Ramallah, said of the prospect of Hamas rule: "We're all afraid. We're
worried about the future, that we'll become a second Iran." Jasser and other
non-Muslims have every reason to be afraid. Hassam El-Masalmeh, Hamas leader
in Bethlehem, recently declared that his movement intended to reinstitute
the traditional tax, the jizya, stipulated in the Qur'an for Jews and
Christians in an Islamic state. "We in Hamas," Masalmeh announced, "intend
to implement this tax someday. We say it openly - we welcome everyone to
Palestine but only if they agree to live under our rules." Since along with
this tax, Islamic law stipulates that Jews and Christians must submit to a
series of humiliating and discriminatory regulations, ensuring their
second-class status in line with the Qur'anic stipulation that they "pay the
jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued" (9:29).

Some try to draw comfort from the fact that Hamas participated in the
elections at all. Victor Batarseh, the mayor of Bethlehem and a Christian,
echoed the view of many analysts when he said: "The only way to make Hamas
more moderate is to bring them inside the system." But that hope was belied
by statements from Hamas operatives themselves, including Umm Farhat, a
candidate for the Palestinian Legislative Council and the mother of a jihad
terrorist who murdered five Israeli civilians. Umm Farhat emphasized that
Hamas' participation in elections did not mean it was moderating its
jihadist goals one iota: "The jihadist project completes the political one
and the political project cannot be completed without jihad."

So now it should be clear to the world that exactly that - the jihad - is
the agenda of Hamas, and now of the Palestinian Authority as a whole. While
Mahmoud Abbas has been able to distance himself from terror attacks in
Israel and claim that he was not able to stop them, now the government of
the Palestinian Authority itself will be dominated by an organization that
has celebrated such attacks.

Flush with victory, Hamas shows no sign of changing that posture. Hamas
operative Ismail Haniyeh said the Islamic group will now work to "complete
the liberation of other parts of Palestine." In a sadly typical example of
mainstream media cluelessness, the AP story reporting this adds: "But did
not say which territories he was referring to or how he would go about it."
As if there were any doubt in the mind of anyone in Hamas at this point that
"Palestine" refers to the entirety of Israel. The Hamas Charter states: "For
renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the
nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the
movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the
banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: 'Allah is the
all-powerful, but most people are not aware.'"

And how will Hamas go about "liberating" its "homeland"? Hamas' Mahmoud
Zahar reiterated after the electoral victory: "We have no peace process. We
are not going to mislead our people to tell them we are waiting, meeting,
for a peace process that is nothing." Zahar was echoing the Hamas Charter's
declaration: "[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the
international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all
contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

Those words should reverberate in the minds of all the world's policymakers
whenever they are tempted in the coming weeks to call yet again for Israel
to moderate its stance toward Hamas and enter into negotiations with the
group. Hamas is dedicated to establishing an Islamic state and will no doubt
begin immediately to do so. Its Charter maintains, "the Islamic nature of
Palestine is part of our religion, and anyone who neglects his religion is
bound to lose." The Charter follows this with a quotation from the Qur'an:
"And who forsakes the religion of Abraham, save him who befools himself?"
(2:130).

Hamas identifies itself in the Charter as "characterized by a profound
understanding, by precise notions and by a complete comprehensiveness of all
concepts of Islam in all domains of life: views and beliefs, politics and
economics, education and society, jurisprudence and rule, indoctrination and
teaching, the arts and publications, the hidden and the evident, and all the
other domains of life." That totalitarian vision, as Jasser Jasser knows
well, bodes ill for Palestinian non-Muslims.

Nonetheless, Secretary of State Rice is, of course, correct: the Palestinian
"aspirations for peace and a peaceful life remain unchanged." But they are
founded upon a societal model that is fundamentally different from that that
Western analysts have so far imagined. "When Islam strives for peace,"
wrote the Egyptian Muslim theorist Sayyid Qutb (1906-1966), "its objective
is not that superficial peace which requires that only that part of the
earth where the followers of Islam are residing remain secure. The peace
which Islam desires is that the religion (i.e., the Law of the society) be
purified for God, that the obedience of all people be for God alone, and
that some people should not be lords over others." In the Palestinian
Authority, the voters have freely chosen such a society. Were they voting
against corruption? So were many Germans who voted for Hitler in the early
1930s. The fact that much of the populace had not endorsed his agenda,
however, did not prevent him from implementing it.

Ahmadinejad in Iran, Hamas in the Palestinian Authority: jihadists are
closer than they have been in ages to realizing the Muslim Prophet Muhammad'
s prediction that "the last hour would not come unless the Muslims will
fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would
hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say:
Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill
him" (Sahih Muslim, bk. 41, no. 6985).

Will the world stand ready to prevent this? Or continue to deceive itself
with vain hopes that the men who won the Palestinian elections are men with
whom they can deal?
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21076

Is anyone surprised by this?
.

User: ""

Title: Re: "We Have No Peace Process" 28 Jan 2006 09:45:16 PM
On 27-Jan-2006, Mimi Cohen <mimiNOSPAMgal@cox.net> wrote:

DoD wrote:

The denial started almost immediately after Hamas captured 57 percent of
the
seats in the Palestinian parliament. Associated Press reported that
"Hamas
capitalized on widespread discontent with years of Fatah corruption and
ineffectiveness. Much of its campaign focused on internal Palestinian
issues, while playing down the conflict with Israel." Secretary of State
Condoleeza Rice opined: "Palestinian people have apparently voted for
change, but we believe their aspirations for peace and a peaceful life
remain unchanged."

But what kind of peace? And how does Hamas (Harakat Muqawama Islamiyya -
the
Islamic Resistance Movement) propose to rid the Palestinian Authority of
corruption? To these questions the answer has been clear for as long as
Hamas has existed; the answer to both is Islam. The Hamas Charter of
August
18, 1988, quotes Hassan Al-Banna, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, the
first modern Islamic terror organization and the direct forefather of
Hamas:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will
obliterate
it, just as it obliterated others before it." A Hamas supporter in Gaza
amplified that principle on Thursday: "We're happy that now we will have
an
Islamic state. God willing, Islam will prevail and we will get rid of
corruption."

The Iranian regime of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has joined
Hamas in
calling for the destruction of Israel, expressed delight at the election
outcome. An Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman said: "Iran...hopes that
the
powerful presence of Hamas at the [political] scene brings about great
achievements for the Palestinian nation."

Others were not so joyful. Jasser Jasser, a Christian pharmacist in
Ramallah, said of the prospect of Hamas rule: "We're all afraid. We're
worried about the future, that we'll become a second Iran." Jasser and
other
non-Muslims have every reason to be afraid. Hassam El-Masalmeh, Hamas
leader
in Bethlehem, recently declared that his movement intended to
reinstitute
the traditional tax, the jizya, stipulated in the Qur'an for Jews and
Christians in an Islamic state. "We in Hamas," Masalmeh announced,
"intend
to implement this tax someday. We say it openly - we welcome everyone to
Palestine but only if they agree to live under our rules." Since along
with
this tax, Islamic law stipulates that Jews and Christians must submit to
a
series of humiliating and discriminatory regulations, ensuring their
second-class status in line with the Qur'anic stipulation that they "pay
the
jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued" (9:29).

Some try to draw comfort from the fact that Hamas participated in the
elections at all. Victor Batarseh, the mayor of Bethlehem and a
Christian,
echoed the view of many analysts when he said: "The only way to make
Hamas
more moderate is to bring them inside the system." But that hope was
belied
by statements from Hamas operatives themselves, including Umm Farhat, a
candidate for the Palestinian Legislative Council and the mother of a
jihad
terrorist who murdered five Israeli civilians. Umm Farhat emphasized
that
Hamas' participation in elections did not mean it was moderating its
jihadist goals one iota: "The jihadist project completes the political
one
and the political project cannot be completed without jihad."

So now it should be clear to the world that exactly that - the jihad -
is
the agenda of Hamas, and now of the Palestinian Authority as a whole.
While
Mahmoud Abbas has been able to distance himself from terror attacks in
Israel and claim that he was not able to stop them, now the government
of
the Palestinian Authority itself will be dominated by an organization
that
has celebrated such attacks.

Flush with victory, Hamas shows no sign of changing that posture. Hamas
operative Ismail Haniyeh said the Islamic group will now work to
"complete
the liberation of other parts of Palestine." In a sadly typical example
of
mainstream media cluelessness, the AP story reporting this adds: "But
did
not say which territories he was referring to or how he would go about
it."
As if there were any doubt in the mind of anyone in Hamas at this point
that
"Palestine" refers to the entirety of Israel. The Hamas Charter states:
"For
renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion;
the
nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the
movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise
the
banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: 'Allah is
the
all-powerful, but most people are not aware.'"

And how will Hamas go about "liberating" its "homeland"? Hamas' Mahmoud
Zahar reiterated after the electoral victory: "We have no peace process.
We
are not going to mislead our people to tell them we are waiting,
meeting,
for a peace process that is nothing." Zahar was echoing the Hamas
Charter's
declaration: "[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and
the
international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all
contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

Those words should reverberate in the minds of all the world's
policymakers
whenever they are tempted in the coming weeks to call yet again for
Israel
to moderate its stance toward Hamas and enter into negotiations with the
group. Hamas is dedicated to establishing an Islamic state and will no
doubt
begin immediately to do so. Its Charter maintains, "the Islamic nature
of
Palestine is part of our religion, and anyone who neglects his religion
is
bound to lose." The Charter follows this with a quotation from the
Qur'an:
"And who forsakes the religion of Abraham, save him who befools
himself?"
(2:130).

Hamas identifies itself in the Charter as "characterized by a profound
understanding, by precise notions and by a complete comprehensiveness of
all
concepts of Islam in all domains of life: views and beliefs, politics
and
economics, education and society, jurisprudence and rule, indoctrination
and
teaching, the arts and publications, the hidden and the evident, and all
the
other domains of life." That totalitarian vision, as Jasser Jasser knows
well, bodes ill for Palestinian non-Muslims.

Nonetheless, Secretary of State Rice is, of course, correct: the
Palestinian
"aspirations for peace and a peaceful life remain unchanged." But they
are
founded upon a societal model that is fundamentally different from that
that
Western analysts have so far imagined. "When Islam strives for peace,"
wrote the Egyptian Muslim theorist Sayyid Qutb (1906-1966), "its
objective
is not that superficial peace which requires that only that part of the
earth where the followers of Islam are residing remain secure. The peace
which Islam desires is that the religion (i.e., the Law of the society)
be
purified for God, that the obedience of all people be for God alone, and
that some people should not be lords over others." In the Palestinian
Authority, the voters have freely chosen such a society. Were they
voting
against corruption? So were many Germans who voted for Hitler in the
early
1930s. The fact that much of the populace had not endorsed his agenda,
however, did not prevent him from implementing it.

Ahmadinejad in Iran, Hamas in the Palestinian Authority: jihadists are
closer than they have been in ages to realizing the Muslim Prophet
Muhammad'
s prediction that "the last hour would not come unless the Muslims will
fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews
would
hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would
say:
Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill
him" (Sahih Muslim, bk. 41, no. 6985).

Will the world stand ready to prevent this? Or continue to deceive
itself
with vain hopes that the men who won the Palestinian elections are men
with
whom they can deal?
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21076


Is anyone surprised by this?

I'm sorry to say that I will not be surprised by the world ignoring the
facts
once again. Excuses will be made & things will go on as before.
Susan
.
User: "serwad"

Title: BUSH DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE AND NEITHER DO YOU 29 Jan 2006 08:24:33 AM
President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said this was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW still doesn't
get it.
Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a group that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques destroyed by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption inside the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not taken care of
the Palestinian people.
But, GWB says he won't talk with Hamas; but he doesn't understand, neither
he nor the Israelis have ever talked with the Palestinians-aside from Jimmy
Carter, all American presidents and Israeli leaders have always told the
Palestinians what to do and that they had no reason to stand up for their
rights as human beings.
President Carter is correct, aid must continue, and America had better get
used to talking with people that GWB doesn't like, and that many Israelis
don't like, because like the stones the children throw (at the risk of their
lives), some day, even the stones will throw themselves, in a Biblical
sense, and the real losers will be America and its brutal and cruel ally,
Israel.
Oh by the way, if the U.S. cuts off aid to Palestine because of Hamas, you
can be sure there will be aid coming openly, or on the sly, from other Arab
and Muslim countries, individuals and even Iran. Thus, the leverage GWB
thinks he has is non-existent! He has no credibility in the Middle East,
especially in Palestine. So as far as the Palestinians are concerned, it's
none of his business, and he can keep the paltry aid he gives anyway, a mere
pittance compared to what America and GWB give to Israel.
Hamas is the voice of the new Arab renaissance; it will spread into other
Arab countries, and America will be the poorer for it unless GWB and his
advisors, such comedians who pretend to be diplomats, like Dennis Ross and
others of his ilk, wake and realize that Hamas if part of the new Arab dream
of independence and self-respect, something Islam is all about, all the
time. Though Muslims prefer peace, if it comes to abuse, then they must
stand up, as Hamas does, and has done, so that they refuse the abuse and
stand strong against it.
Dr. Sam Hamod is a former advisor to the State Department, editor of 3rd
World News in Wash, DC and edits www.todaysalternativenews.com
.
User: ""

Title: Re: BUSH DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE AND NEITHER DO YOU 29 Jan 2006 01:56:08 PM
serwad wrote:

President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said this was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW still doesn't
get it.

Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a group that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques destroyed by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption inside the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not taken care of
the Palestinian people.

All of that happened because Yasser Arafat, now tormented with fire
and brimstone, rejected the deal that Ehud Barak offered.
Michael
.
User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: BUSH DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE AND NEITHER DO YOU 29 Jan 2006 10:40:51 PM
<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

serwad wrote:

President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said this was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW still doesn't
get it.

Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a group that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques destroyed by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption inside the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not taken care of
the Palestinian people.

All of that happened because Yasser Arafat, now tormented with fire
and brimstone, rejected the deal that Ehud Barak offered.

The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: ""

Title: Re: BUSH DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE AND NEITHER DO YOU 29 Jan 2006 11:24:41 PM
Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

serwad wrote:

President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said this was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW still doesn't
get it.

Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a group that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques destroyed by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption inside the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not taken care of
the Palestinian people.

All of that happened because Yasser Arafat, now tormented with fire
and brimstone, rejected the deal that Ehud Barak offered.


The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

Arafat chose to fight.
Michael
.
User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: BUSH DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE AND NEITHER DO YOU 30 Jan 2006 11:46:44 AM
<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

serwad wrote:

President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said this was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW still doesn't
get it.

Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a group that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques destroyed by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption inside the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not taken care of
the Palestinian people.

All of that happened because Yasser Arafat, now tormented with fire
and brimstone, rejected the deal that Ehud Barak offered.


The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."


Arafat chose to fight.

Most people would. The Americans of the 18th century chose treason
and insurrection when the king of England imposed far less oppression.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: "jgarbuz"

Title: Re: BUSH DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE AND NEITHER DO YOU 30 Jan 2006 12:26:32 PM
Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

serwad wrote:

President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said this was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW still doesn't
get it.

Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a group that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques destroyed by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption inside the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not taken care of
the Palestinian people.

All of that happened because Yasser Arafat, now tormented with fire
and brimstone, rejected the deal that Ehud Barak offered.


The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."


Arafat chose to fight.

Most people would. The Americans of the 18th century chose treason
and insurrection when the king of England imposed far less oppression.<

1/3rd did, 1/3rd were neutral, and 1/3rd were against treason to the
Crown.
Anyhow, Britain was a civilized country and didn't really oppress the
colonists
as we claim. The landownders like Washington wanted indian lands to the
west
that the Crown had promised to the INdians to protect. The
manufacturers
wanted to be free to compete with protected British manufacture.
Southern landowners
wanted to keep slaves as Britain was slowly moving towards anti-slavery
sentiments.
But the big claim was that the colonists were not being represented
equally
in Parliament but were being asked to pay modest taxes to pay for
troops who
were protecting the colonies. So that became the theme of the
rebellion: No Taxation
without Representation. And when the British started to ignore the
colonial legislatures
and started getting a bit heavy handed in collecting taxes, and a few
skirmishes
broke out, hotheads like Patrick Henry and John Adams started pushing
the idea
of breaking with Britain. At any rate, comparing the American colonists
to the
Arabs in Palestine is wacko to begin with. The Arab_Israel conflict is
between
two groups claiming sovereignty over the same tiny land. The Jews have
their
arguments, and the Arabs have theirs. The Jews were prepared to make
some
compromises, but the Arabs weren't. Which side you choose to back is
personal.
No one can fully disprove or dismiss the arguments of the other. Both
sides have
valid claims, but only one side was prepared to compromise all along.
.
User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: BUSH DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE AND NEITHER DO YOU 31 Jan 2006 10:47:21 AM
In article <1138645592.645186.122030@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
jgarbuz <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

serwad wrote:

President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said this
was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW still
doesn't
get it.

Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a group
that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the
Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never
getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and
tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques destroyed
by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on
Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption inside
the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not taken
care of
the Palestinian people.

All of that happened because Yasser Arafat, now tormented with fire
and brimstone, rejected the deal that Ehud Barak offered.


The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."


Arafat chose to fight.


Most people would. The Americans of the 18th century chose treason
and insurrection when the king of England imposed far less oppression.<


1/3rd did, 1/3rd were neutral, and 1/3rd were against treason to the
Crown.

Right - liberals wanted liberty and a free country. Conservatives
wanted to stay with England.

Anyhow, Britain was a civilized country and didn't really oppress the
colonists
as we claim.

Revisionism at its finest.
.
User: "osprey"

Title: BARNES DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE 31 Jan 2006 11:28:44 AM
David W. Barnes wrote:

In article <1138645592.645186.122030@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
jgarbuz <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

serwad wrote:

President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said this
was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW still
doesn't
get it.

Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a group
that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the
Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never
getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and
tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques destroyed
by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on
Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption inside
the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not taken
care of
the Palestinian people.

All of that happened because Yasser Arafat, now tormented with fire
and brimstone, rejected the deal that Ehud Barak offered.


The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."


Arafat chose to fight.


Most people would. The Americans of the 18th century chose treason
and insurrection when the king of England imposed far less oppression.<


1/3rd did, 1/3rd were neutral, and 1/3rd were against treason to the
Crown.


Right - liberals wanted liberty and a free country. Conservatives
wanted to stay with England.

Looks like the title of this needed to be changed, since it is Barnes
who hasn't a clue.
Since the Republican party wasn't formed until approximately the early
1850's and the Liberal party wasn't formed until approximately 1859, it
appears Barnes is just a few years off...almost 100 years as a matter
of fact.
Yo Barnes, it would help you to do a little research before making such
absurd statements.
Sources:
http://www.mcgop.net/History.htm
http://liberalhistory.org.uk/record.jsp?type=page&ID=7&image=history
.
User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: BARNES DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE 31 Jan 2006 08:05:50 PM
In article <1138728524.268786.300510@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

David W. Barnes wrote:

In article <1138645592.645186.122030@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
jgarbuz <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

serwad wrote:

President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though
an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said
this
was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW
still
doesn't
get it.

Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a
group
that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the
Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never
getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and
tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques
destroyed
by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on
Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village
and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption
inside
the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not
taken
care of
the Palestinian people.

All of that happened because Yasser Arafat, now tormented with

fire

and brimstone, rejected the deal that Ehud Barak offered.


The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."


Arafat chose to fight.


Most people would. The Americans of the 18th century chose treason
and insurrection when the king of England imposed far less oppression.<


1/3rd did, 1/3rd were neutral, and 1/3rd were against treason to the
Crown.


Right - liberals wanted liberty and a free country. Conservatives
wanted to stay with England.


Looks like the title of this needed to be changed, since it is Barnes
who hasn't a clue.
Since the Republican party wasn't formed until approximately the early
1850's and the Liberal party wasn't formed until approximately 1859, it
appears Barnes is just a few years off...almost 100 years as a matter
of fact.

I doubt anyone out here has a lower opinion of you than me. However,
here you take the cake. There is no "Liberal Party." Being
politically conservative or politically liberal is an ideology. There
are liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats.
Liberalism and Conservatism is not synonymous with Democrat and
Republican. (For example, the Republican Party was very liberal in the
time of Lincoln.)
And learn to read. I never said anything about the Republicans or the
Democrats. I said the conservatives wanted to stay with England. They
did. In the early 1700's, the Whig party, in England, were very
conservative.
As for liberalism, quoting from Wikipedia:
Liberalism is an ideology, or current of political thought, which holds
liberty as the primary political value. Liberalism seeks a society
characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on the
power of government and religion, the rule of law, the free exchange of
ideas, a free market economy that supports private enterprise, and a
system of government that is transparent. This form of government
favors liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all
citizens have equal rights by law, and an equal opportunity to succeed.
Liberalism rejected many foundational assumptions which dominated most
earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings,
hereditary status, and established religion. Fundamental human rights
that all liberals support include the right to life, liberty, and
property. In many countries, modern liberalism differs from classical
liberalism by asserting that government provision of some minimal level
of material well-being takes priority over individual rights.



Yo Barnes, it would help you to do a little research before making such
absurd statements.

Yo, Osprey. Pull your fat head out of your big *****.
.

User: "George"

Title: Re: BARNES DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE 31 Jan 2006 03:11:45 PM
On 2006-01-31 09:28:44 -0800, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> said:


David W. Barnes wrote:

In article <1138645592.645186.122030@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
jgarbuz <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

serwad wrote:

President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said this
was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW still
doesn't
get it.

Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a group
that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the
Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never
getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and
tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques destroyed
by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on
Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption inside
the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not taken
care of
the Palestinian people.

All of that happened because Yasser Arafat, now tormented with fire
and brimstone, rejected the deal that Ehud Barak offered.


The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."


Arafat chose to fight.


Most people would. The Americans of the 18th century chose treason
and insurrection when the king of England imposed far less oppression.<


1/3rd did, 1/3rd were neutral, and 1/3rd were against treason to the
Crown.


Right - liberals wanted liberty and a free country. Conservatives
wanted to stay with England.


Looks like the title of this needed to be changed, since it is Barnes
who hasn't a clue.
Since the Republican party wasn't formed until approximately the early
1850's and the Liberal party wasn't formed until approximately 1859, it
appears Barnes is just a few years off...almost 100 years as a matter
of fact.

He said liberals and conservatives, not Democrats and Republicans, you
fucking idiot.



Yo Barnes, it would help you to do a little research before making such
absurd statements.

lol. Are you *trying* to make a fool of yourself?
.
User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: BARNES DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE 31 Jan 2006 08:05:51 PM
In article <2006013113114575249%ggains@waddfredu>, George
<ggains@waddfr.edu> wrote:

On 2006-01-31 09:28:44 -0800, "osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> said:


David W. Barnes wrote:

In article <1138645592.645186.122030@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
jgarbuz <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

serwad wrote:

President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said this
was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW still
doesn't
get it.

Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a group
that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the
Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never
getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and
tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques destroyed
by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on
Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption inside
the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not taken
care of
the Palestinian people.

All of that happened because Yasser Arafat, now tormented with fire
and brimstone, rejected the deal that Ehud Barak offered.


The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."


Arafat chose to fight.


Most people would. The Americans of the 18th century chose treason
and insurrection when the king of England imposed far less oppression.<


1/3rd did, 1/3rd were neutral, and 1/3rd were against treason to the
Crown.


Right - liberals wanted liberty and a free country. Conservatives
wanted to stay with England.


Looks like the title of this needed to be changed, since it is Barnes
who hasn't a clue.
Since the Republican party wasn't formed until approximately the early
1850's and the Liberal party wasn't formed until approximately 1859, it
appears Barnes is just a few years off...almost 100 years as a matter
of fact.


He said liberals and conservatives, not Democrats and Republicans, you
fucking idiot.

Osprey is an unbelievable moron. It says a great deal about the state
of our college system in this country when an idiot like him can
graduate and not be able to spell, use grammar properly, or,
apparently, understand what liberal and conservative means.




Yo Barnes, it would help you to do a little research before making such
absurd statements.


lol. Are you *trying* to make a fool of yourself?

Sadly, I believe it is really who he is.
.


User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: HEISHMAN DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE 31 Jan 2006 12:33:40 PM
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

David W. Barnes wrote:

jgarbuz <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."


Arafat chose to fight.


Most people would. The Americans of the 18th century chose treason
and insurrection when the king of England imposed far less oppression.<


1/3rd did, 1/3rd were neutral, and 1/3rd were against treason to the
Crown.


Right - liberals wanted liberty and a free country. Conservatives
wanted to stay with England.


Looks like the title of this needed to be changed, since it is Barnes
who hasn't a clue.

No, *****, it's still you without the clue.

Since the Republican party wasn't formed until approximately the early
1850's and the Liberal party wasn't formed until approximately 1859,

Try 1944, moron. Of course you're just being a stupid ***** again
and accusing EVERYBODY you don't like of being "liberals".
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0829667.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_%28New_York_State%29

it
appears Barnes is just a few years off.

Idiot.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: "osprey"

Title: Re:FISCHER COWARDLY SNIPS OUT SOURCE AND RESORTS TO CHILDISH FLAMING 31 Jan 2006 01:23:50 PM
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:43dfad84$0$58089$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

David W. Barnes wrote:

jgarbuz <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:


The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."


Arafat chose to fight.


Most people would. The Americans of the 18th century chose treason
and insurrection when the king of England imposed far less
oppression.<


1/3rd did, 1/3rd were neutral, and 1/3rd were against treason to the
Crown.


Right - liberals wanted liberty and a free country. Conservatives
wanted to stay with England.


Looks like the title of this needed to be changed, since it is Barnes
who hasn't a clue.



Since the Republican party wasn't formed until approximately the early
1850's and the Liberal party wasn't formed until approximately 1859,


Try 1944,

Try reading the links I provided as sources that you cowardly snipped out in
your childish flame.
http://liberalhistory.org.uk/record.jsp?type=page&ID=7&image=history
Whilst the history of the Liberal Democrats stretches back 150 years to the
formation of the Liberal Party in 1859, Liberal political thought goes back
a further 200 years to the ferment of the English Civil War. The eighteenth
century saw the gradual establishment of relatively formal parliamentary
groupings, the Whigs and the Tories. Broadly speaking, the Tories were
defenders of the Crown and the established Anglican Church, while the Whigs
drew their inspiration from the Glorious Revolution of 1688, which
established the supremacy of parliament over the monarchy.
.
User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: FISCHER COWARDLY SNIPS OUT SOURCE AND RESORTS TO CHILDISH FLAMING 31 Jan 2006 08:05:51 PM
In article <oL2dnYteZpC4JELeRVn-pg@comcast.com>, osprey
<noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:43dfad84$0$58089$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

David W. Barnes wrote:

jgarbuz <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:


The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."


Arafat chose to fight.


Most people would. The Americans of the 18th century chose treason
and insurrection when the king of England imposed far less
oppression.<


1/3rd did, 1/3rd were neutral, and 1/3rd were against treason to the
Crown.


Right - liberals wanted liberty and a free country. Conservatives
wanted to stay with England.


Looks like the title of this needed to be changed, since it is Barnes
who hasn't a clue.



Since the Republican party wasn't formed until approximately the early
1850's and the Liberal party wasn't formed until approximately 1859,


Try 1944,


Try

<snipping out unnecessary and childish remarks>
.

User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: ***** HEISHMAN COWARDLY SNIPS OUT SOURCE AND RESORTS TO CHILDISH FLAMING 31 Jan 2006 04:10:09 PM
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message

osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

David W. Barnes wrote:

jgarbuz <jgarbuz@netzero.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:


The offer which was: "we'll let you keep 2/3rds of your land and
you'll stop fighting."


Arafat chose to fight.


Most people would. The Americans of the 18th century chose treason
and insurrection when the king of England imposed far less
oppression.<


1/3rd did, 1/3rd were neutral, and 1/3rd were against treason to the
Crown.


Right - liberals wanted liberty and a free country. Conservatives
wanted to stay with England.


Looks like the title of this needed to be changed, since it is Barnes
who hasn't a clue.


Since the Republican party wasn't formed until approximately the early
1850's and the Liberal party wasn't formed until approximately 1859,


Try 1944,


Try reading the links I provided as sources that you cowardly snipped out in
your childish flame.

One of which referred to the Republican party and not the Liberal
party, and the other ...

http://liberalhistory.org.uk/record.jsp?type=page&ID=7&image=history

.... IS BRITISH, YOU BLITHERING IDIOT!
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Mimi Cohen"

Title: Re: OSPREY DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE AND NEVER HAS 31 Jan 2006 05:18:10 PM
osprey LIED:

I
"One last note: I am very surprised at your reaction especially after
just a few short months ago I provided a copy of my DD214 Right in
box 18...1st line it says... SERVED 2 AUG 90 TO 1 OCT 94 IN SUPPORT
OF OPERATION DESERT SHIELD/STORM and in box 13 NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE
MEDAL Funny how you have selective memory, why? Yes, I served in combat
during Desert Storm."

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.abortion/msg/38f5de5691243868?dmode=source&hl=en


"Fine, if you want to play on words...no I was not in actual "combat" "

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/db12fe6b6ec66a35?dmode=source&hl=en

.



User: "Mimi Cohen"

Title: Re: OSPREY DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE AND NEVER HAS 31 Jan 2006 05:16:49 PM
osprey LIED:

clue
"One last note: I am very surprised at your reaction especially after
just a few short months ago I provided a copy of my DD214 Right in
box 18...1st line it says... SERVED 2 AUG 90 TO 1 OCT 94 IN SUPPORT
OF OPERATION DESERT SHIELD/STORM and in box 13 NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE
MEDAL Funny how you have selective memory, why? Yes, I served in combat
during Desert Storm."

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.abortion/msg/38f5de5691243868?dmode=source&hl=en


"Fine, if you want to play on words...no I was not in actual "combat" "

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/db12fe6b6ec66a35?dmode=source&hl=en

.


User: ""

Title: Re: BUSH DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE AND NEITHER DO YOU 31 Jan 2006 05:50:36 PM
On 31-Jan-2006, "David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com> wrote:

Anyhow, Britain was a civilized country and didn't really oppress the
colonists
as we claim.


Revisionism at its finest.

Only if this is a conscious attempt to distort facts and not just ignorance.
Susan
.






User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: BUSH DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE AND NEITHER DO YOU 29 Jan 2006 02:53:32 PM
In article <1138564568.848169.148380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:

serwad wrote:

President Bush has shown his global ignorance once again. Though an
intelligent former president on the ground, Jimmy Carter, said this was a
fair election and that aid to Palestine should be continued-GW still doesn't
get it.

Hamas' rise to power is not that of a "terrorist group," but a group that
represents the Palestinian people who are sick and tired of the Israeli and
American continually focusing on the "process talks," but never getting any
decisions that fair to Palestinians, and people who are sick and tired of
seeing their lands, their homes, their churches and mosques destroyed by
Israel and its "security wall," and through more army attacks on Palestinian
civilians, abuses at checkpoints that dot every hamlet, village and
Palestinian city or route, and who are sick of the corruption inside the old
Arafat Fatah leadership that has taken care of itself but not taken care of
the Palestinian people.

All of that happened because Yasser Arafat, now tormented with fire
and brimstone, rejected the deal that Ehud Barak offered.

It isn't quite as simple as all that, but the primary contributing
factors are (1) the U.S. occupation of Iraq, (2) the overthrow of
Saddam Hussein, (3) a very confused Bush White House with an equally
confused foreign policy.
.




User: "Attila"

Title: Re: "We Have No Peace Process" 29 Jan 2006 10:07:30 AM
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:37:45 -0800, Mimi Cohen <mimiNOSPAMgal@cox.net>
in alt.abortion with message-id <wVzCf.11527$ZA5.2813@fed1read05>
wrote:
More off topic religious propagandizing.
.


  Page 1 of 1

1

 


Related Articles
 

NEWER

pg.716     pg.544     pg.412     pg.311     pg.234     pg.175     pg.130     pg.96     pg.70     pg.50     pg.35     pg.24     pg.16     pg.10     pg.6     pg.3     pg.1

OLDER