| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"S B" |
| Date: |
08 Jul 2003 05:07:26 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
Omphalos wrote:
Experts think that monetary union with the U.S. would force the
government to become competitive with the U.S. on tax, spending and
regulatory policies.
But a monetary union would require the U.S. Federal Reserve to add a
Canadian seat to its board of governors and Chairman Alan Greenspan
has said that the U.S. will never share control of its central bank.
The idea is ridiculous. Canada is competetive given its population,
distances etc.
Canadian taxes are not as high above US taxes when you measure apples
against apples.
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| User: "Snubis" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
08 Jul 2003 05:30:09 PM |
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On Tue 08 Jul 2003 06:07:26p, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote in
news:3F0B4098.45CB3AFD@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca:
Omphalos wrote:
Experts think that monetary union with the U.S. would force the
government to become competitive with the U.S. on tax, spending and
regulatory policies.
But a monetary union would require the U.S. Federal Reserve to add
a Canadian seat to its board of governors and Chairman Alan
Greenspan has said that the U.S. will never share control of its
central bank.
The idea is ridiculous. Canada is competetive given its population,
distances etc.
Canadian taxes are not as high above US taxes when you measure
apples against apples.
Opponents of lower Canadian taxes often argue higher taxes north of the 49th
parallel are simply the price Canadians must pay for more public healthcare.
In addition, knee-jerk anti-American critics often assert our national
priorities are simply so much better than those nasty and brutish Americans.
'We're virtuous because we spend more tax money on beds in hospitals as
opposed to bullets,' seems to be one argument to dismiss Canadian-American tax
comparisons. Ignore for a moment the elitism behind such arguments. (Imagine
the furor if Canadians constantly put down India in the same manner some
Canadians trash our southern neighbours.) As well, put aside the disrespect
such anti-military attitudes betray about Canada's soldiers who fought for
Canada in two world wars, Korea, and a variety of peace-keeping operations
this century.
But silly anti-Americanism aside, a recent article from the Fraser Institute
argues the taxes-are-higher-here-thanks-to-healthcare argument is incorrect.
Economist Andrew Kosnaski points out such assertions ignore the large chunk of
healthcare in the United States paid for via the public purse. While
taxpayer-funded healthcare in Canada represents approximately 70% of total
healthcare dollars spent, public healthcare spending accounts for just under
50% of total healthcare dollars spent south of the border.
More importantly, expressed as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP)
and excluding private healthcare spending in both countries, total public
health expenditures account for 6.45 percent in the United States as compared
to 6.6 percent in Canada, a difference of under 2/10ths of a percent of GDP
(1998 estimates.)
Expressed another way, when defense and healthcare expenditures are both
removed from the respective tax burden, the remaining tax burden for 'other'
spending amounts to 22.1 percent of GDP in the United States. In Canada, the
comparative figure is 36.0 percent of GDP – a 13.9 percentage point difference
in Canada.
In other words, no matter how widely perceived and repeated, the bar-room
conversation that blames higher Canadian taxes on public healthcare is
mistaken, or induced by beer. The cost of government and the taxes to pay for
it is indeed much higher in Canada – almost 14% worth of GDP higher - but
public healthcare is not the reason. It's all the 'other' spending Canadian
governments engage in.
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| User: "S B" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
08 Jul 2003 05:50:37 PM |
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Snubis wrote:
On Tue 08 Jul 2003 06:07:26p, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote in
news:3F0B4098.45CB3AFD@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca:
Omphalos wrote:
Experts think that monetary union with the U.S. would force the
government to become competitive with the U.S. on tax, spending and
regulatory policies.
But a monetary union would require the U.S. Federal Reserve to add
a Canadian seat to its board of governors and Chairman Alan
Greenspan has said that the U.S. will never share control of its
central bank.
The idea is ridiculous. Canada is competetive given its population,
distances etc.
Canadian taxes are not as high above US taxes when you measure
apples against apples.
Opponents of lower Canadian taxes often argue higher taxes north of the 49th
parallel are simply the price Canadians must pay for more public healthcare.
In addition, knee-jerk anti-American critics often assert our national
priorities are simply so much better than those nasty and brutish Americans.
'We're virtuous because we spend more tax money on beds in hospitals as
opposed to bullets,' seems to be one argument to dismiss Canadian-American tax
comparisons. Ignore for a moment the elitism behind such arguments. (Imagine
the furor if Canadians constantly put down India in the same manner some
Canadians trash our southern neighbours.) As well, put aside the disrespect
such anti-military attitudes betray about Canada's soldiers who fought for
Canada in two world wars, Korea, and a variety of peace-keeping operations
this century.
But silly anti-Americanism aside, a recent article from the Fraser Institute
argues the taxes-are-higher-here-thanks-to-healthcare argument is incorrect.
Economist Andrew Kosnaski points out such assertions ignore the large chunk of
healthcare in the United States paid for via the public purse. While
taxpayer-funded healthcare in Canada represents approximately 70% of total
healthcare dollars spent, public healthcare spending accounts for just under
50% of total healthcare dollars spent south of the border.
More importantly, expressed as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP)
and excluding private healthcare spending in both countries, total public
health expenditures account for 6.45 percent in the United States as compared
to 6.6 percent in Canada, a difference of under 2/10ths of a percent of GDP
(1998 estimates.)
Expressed another way, when defense and healthcare expenditures are both
removed from the respective tax burden, the remaining tax burden for 'other'
spending amounts to 22.1 percent of GDP in the United States. In Canada, the
comparative figure is 36.0 percent of GDP – a 13.9 percentage point difference
in Canada.
In other words, no matter how widely perceived and repeated, the bar-room
conversation that blames higher Canadian taxes on public healthcare is
mistaken, or induced by beer. The cost of government and the taxes to pay for
it is indeed much higher in Canada – almost 14% worth of GDP higher - but
public healthcare is not the reason. It's all the 'other' spending Canadian
governments engage in.
You've forgotten other pseudo taxes (The Fraser Institute should know
better) like Social Security Tax and Medicare Tax vs CPP. It's wrong to
remove these things from the equation.
Moreover, the public funded health care needs funded under US Medicare
is not universal, and worse, tends to be for emergent care because of
lack of prior health care and preventative care. Emergent care is
vastly more expensive than normal physician's office provided care that
would be available and used under Canada's universal system. So again
you're not comparing apples with apples.
Lots of publicly funded (in whole or in part) programs are not available
in the US, or if they are, they are at vastly higher prices. Take a
simple example ... Children's learn to skate ... not available from
Parks and Recs in the US ... Privately provided ... cost $125 per
session of 8 once per week classes. In Canada care of parks and recs at
half that cost.
You must compare oranges with oranges and not tangerines, tangellos or
satsumas!
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| User: "RJ" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
08 Jul 2003 08:47:51 PM |
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On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:50:37 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
Lots of publicly funded (in whole or in part) programs are not available
in the US, or if they are, they are at vastly higher prices. Take a
simple example ... Children's learn to skate ... not available from
Parks and Recs in the US
How awful! No free skating lessons!
The children of Key West are being denied their right to ice time!
---
Bob
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| User: "E. Barry Bruyea" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
09 Jul 2003 06:06:43 AM |
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On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:47:51 -0400, RJ <re_johnson@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:50:37 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
Lots of publicly funded (in whole or in part) programs are not available
in the US, or if they are, they are at vastly higher prices. Take a
simple example ... Children's learn to skate ... not available from
Parks and Recs in the US
And how the hell would you know that? The U.S. has fifty states; are
we to suppose you've checked the tens of thousands of cities in the
U.S? After all, the federal government does not have a 'Parks & Recs'
department.
How awful! No free skating lessons!
The children of Key West are being denied their right to ice time!
---
Bob
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| User: "S B" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
08 Jul 2003 10:09:10 PM |
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RJ wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:50:37 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
Lots of publicly funded (in whole or in part) programs are not available
in the US, or if they are, they are at vastly higher prices. Take a
simple example ... Children's learn to skate ... not available from
Parks and Recs in the US
How awful! No free skating lessons!
The children of Key West are being denied their right to ice time!
You misinterpret ... What we're saying is that the cost of the facility
is covered by taxes reducing the cost of the skating lessons so to make
a fair comparison, you must either remove the part of the taxes for the
facility from Canadian taxes, or add it in to the US taxes, otherwise
you are not comparing the same thing.
.
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| User: "RJ" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
08 Jul 2003 11:39:47 PM |
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On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 03:09:10 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
RJ wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:50:37 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
Lots of publicly funded (in whole or in part) programs are not available
in the US, or if they are, they are at vastly higher prices. Take a
simple example ... Children's learn to skate ... not available from
Parks and Recs in the US
How awful! No free skating lessons!
The children of Key West are being denied their right to ice time!
You misinterpret ... What we're saying is that the cost of the facility
is covered by taxes reducing the cost of the skating lessons so to make
a fair comparison, you must either remove the part of the taxes for the
facility from Canadian taxes, or add it in to the US taxes, otherwise
you are not comparing the same thing.
My comment was directed at the triviality of your example. Plus the
assumption that skating skills are important enough to fund
universally.
---
Bob
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| User: "S B" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
09 Jul 2003 07:34:24 AM |
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RJ wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 03:09:10 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
RJ wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:50:37 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
Lots of publicly funded (in whole or in part) programs are not available
in the US, or if they are, they are at vastly higher prices. Take a
simple example ... Children's learn to skate ... not available from
Parks and Recs in the US
How awful! No free skating lessons!
The children of Key West are being denied their right to ice time!
You misinterpret ... What we're saying is that the cost of the facility
is covered by taxes reducing the cost of the skating lessons so to make
a fair comparison, you must either remove the part of the taxes for the
facility from Canadian taxes, or add it in to the US taxes, otherwise
you are not comparing the same thing.
My comment was directed at the triviality of your example. Plus the
assumption that skating skills are important enough to fund
universally.
It's not the skating skills that are important enough to fund
universally, but rather the provision of the facilities (which made the
difference in the costs). By the same token one could take the approach
that parks for picnicing in and jogging in and swinging and sliding in
are too trivial to fund universally.
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| User: "RJ" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
09 Jul 2003 11:21:56 AM |
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On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:34:24 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
RJ wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 03:09:10 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
RJ wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:50:37 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
Lots of publicly funded (in whole or in part) programs are not available
in the US, or if they are, they are at vastly higher prices. Take a
simple example ... Children's learn to skate ... not available from
Parks and Recs in the US
How awful! No free skating lessons!
The children of Key West are being denied their right to ice time!
You misinterpret ... What we're saying is that the cost of the facility
is covered by taxes reducing the cost of the skating lessons so to make
a fair comparison, you must either remove the part of the taxes for the
facility from Canadian taxes, or add it in to the US taxes, otherwise
you are not comparing the same thing.
My comment was directed at the triviality of your example. Plus the
assumption that skating skills are important enough to fund
universally.
It's not the skating skills that are important enough to fund
universally, but rather the provision of the facilities (which made the
difference in the costs). By the same token one could take the approach
that parks for picnicing in and jogging in and swinging and sliding in
are too trivial to fund universally.
Parks are provided everywhere in the US.
---
Bob
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| User: "Mike Wilcox" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
09 Jul 2003 08:26:32 AM |
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RJ wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 03:09:10 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
RJ wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:50:37 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
Lots of publicly funded (in whole or in part) programs are not available
in the US, or if they are, they are at vastly higher prices. Take a
simple example ... Children's learn to skate ... not available from
Parks and Recs in the US
How awful! No free skating lessons!
The children of Key West are being denied their right to ice time!
You misinterpret ... What we're saying is that the cost of the facility
is covered by taxes reducing the cost of the skating lessons so to make
a fair comparison, you must either remove the part of the taxes for the
facility from Canadian taxes, or add it in to the US taxes, otherwise
you are not comparing the same thing.
My comment was directed at the triviality of your example. Plus the
assumption that skating skills are important enough to fund
universally.
---
Bob
The point is allowing access for everyone to programs that could make a
difference in one's life. Getting children involved at an early age in healthy
activities is very important for their future development, whether it be
skating, soccer, swimming or computer camp. Kids that are involved in such
programs as far less likely to get involved in criminal activities and become
better citizens when exposed to positive role models, rather than hanging out
with Benny the pimp or the local pusher on the corner.
Mike Wilcox
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| User: "Wooduuuward" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
09 Jul 2003 08:34:25 AM |
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Everyone already has access to mountains of programs and activities.
Just step outside and look down the road at the trailer signs offering
camps of all kinds. Most people don't want programs other than what's
on the television.
Mike Wilcox wrote:
The point is allowing access for everyone to programs that could make a
difference in one's life.
Mike Wilcox
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
09 Jul 2003 11:12:10 PM |
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Wooduuuward <2campb4@nospam.net> wrote:
Everyone already has access to mountains of programs and activities.
Just step outside and look down the road at the trailer signs offering
camps of all kinds.
$$$$
Most people don't want programs other than what's
on the television.
Not everybody is rich.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "E. Barry Bruyea" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
09 Jul 2003 06:08:08 AM |
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On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 03:09:10 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
RJ wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:50:37 GMT, S B
<s_brook.nothere@not.here.for.spam.att.canada.ca> wrote:
Lots of publicly funded (in whole or in part) programs are not available
in the US, or if they are, they are at vastly higher prices. Take a
simple example ... Children's learn to skate ... not available from
Parks and Recs in the US
How awful! No free skating lessons!
The children of Key West are being denied their right to ice time!
You misinterpret ... What we're saying is that the cost of the facility
is covered by taxes reducing the cost of the skating lessons so to make
a fair comparison, you must either remove the part of the taxes for the
facility from Canadian taxes, or add it in to the US taxes, otherwise
you are not comparing the same thing.
The poster has no way of knowing if his statement is true; unless, of
course, he can cite info on the tens of thousands of cities in the
U.S. and their policies on Parks & Recreation funding.
.
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| User: "Wooduuuward" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
08 Jul 2003 11:16:33 PM |
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The smart thing to do would be to adopt Canadian Tire money
as Canada's dollar. It's the patriotic thing to do, and we all can find
it everywhere, from our tool boxes, fishing tackle boxes, glove boxes
and just about every drawer in the house.
S B wrote:
You must compare oranges with oranges and not tangerines, tangellos or
satsumas!
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| User: "Bradly Wiebe" |
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| Title: Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
08 Jul 2003 11:53:09 PM |
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Wooduuuward wrote:
The smart thing to do would be to adopt Canadian Tire money
as Canada's dollar. It's the patriotic thing to do, and we all can find
it everywhere, from our tool boxes, fishing tackle boxes, glove boxes
and just about every drawer in the house.
LOL. I'm surprised nobody has gotten into counterfeiting Canadian Tire
money yet ;)
S B wrote:
You must compare oranges with oranges and not tangerines, tangellos or
satsumas!
.
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| User: "Steve" |
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| Title: Real Costs Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
08 Jul 2003 06:34:06 PM |
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S B allegedly said:
Omphalos wrote:
Experts think that monetary union with the U.S. would force the
government to become competitive with the U.S. on tax, spending and
regulatory policies.
But a monetary union would require the U.S. Federal Reserve to add a
Canadian seat to its board of governors and Chairman Alan Greenspan
has said that the U.S. will never share control of its central bank.
The idea is ridiculous. Canada is competetive given its population,
distances etc.
Canadian taxes are not as high above US taxes when you measure apples
against apples.
Americans often pay far more when you take into account all the user fees
they must pay for services that Canadians get for free or cheap through
taxation.
This is true of many countries as compared to the US. I have access to
universal, publicly funded medical care. I have never had health insurance
in my life - and I don't need it.
How much is that worth? Not much if you're healthy (today). But it's worth
vast sums once you have an accident or get cancer or whatever.
Our two kids didn't cost us a penny - despite my wife spending a month in
hospital prior to the first one. We were in our 20's on a single income and
NO WAY could we have afforded the US-style medical bills that would have
come with that.......assuming they even gave her the care in the first
place.
--
Steve
--
"Naturally, the common people don't want war;
neither in Russia nor in England nor in America,
nor for that matter in Germany.
That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders
of the country who determine the policy and
it is always a simple matter to drag the people
along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist
dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them
they are being attacked and denounce the
pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing
the country to danger. It works the same way
in any country."
- Hermann Goering, Nazi Reichsmarshall
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| User: "Omphalos" |
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| Title: Re: Real Costs Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
08 Jul 2003 07:08:16 PM |
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On Tue 08 Jul 2003 07:34:06p, Steve <steve@nospam4me.org> wrote in
news:OxIOa.3669$9f7.399411@news02.tsnz.net:
Americans often pay far more when you take into account all the user
fees they must pay for services that Canadians get for free or cheap
through taxation.
Nothing is free. Any services you get for 'free' from the government,
you are paying for in your taxes, whether you use them or not.
--
__________
==\ /================================
===\ /==You know how dumb the average==
====\ /===guy is? Well half of everyone==
=====\ /======is even dumber than that=====
======\/====================================
http://31337.pl
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| User: "Bernard Hubbard" |
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| Title: Re: Real Costs Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
09 Jul 2003 01:56:42 AM |
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Omphalos <omphalos@xmsg.com> wrote in
news:b6efcc2f0930542b5225a3338105876e@free.teranews.com:
On Tue 08 Jul 2003 07:34:06p, Steve <steve@nospam4me.org> wrote
in news:OxIOa.3669$9f7.399411@news02.tsnz.net:
Americans often pay far more when you take into account all the
user fees they must pay for services that Canadians get for
free or cheap through taxation.
Nothing is free. Any services you get for 'free' from the
government, you are paying for in your taxes, whether you use
them or not.
What a fuckwit you are. Why didn't you read the post for
comprehension? It was already stated that these items where
provided through the taxation system.
--
Bernard Hubbard
Australian, Gay, Green and proud
Homosexuals are recruited from adolescent circle jerks.
Curious children who cannot wait for a willing member of
the opposite sex, because of hormonal rage, grow up to be
sexual and emotionally immature. You're not a freak from
birth, you're an immature child who didn't have the strength
nor the will to wait for the right person to pure our <sic>
your Testosterone.
CB on where homosexuals come from. APH July 5, 2003 12.03a AEST.
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| User: "Nick B." |
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| Title: Re: Real Costs Re: Will Canada And the U.S. Adopt A Common Dollar? |
08 Jul 2003 10:21:00 PM |
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Right, and that's what the writer is saying - that Americans have to pay for
services publicly funded in Canada, meaning that you have to include some
measure of those services into the American tax burden in order to try and
compare the two countries.
"Omphalos" <omphalos@xmsg.com> wrote in message
news:b6efcc2f0930542b5225a3338105876e@free.teranews.com...
On Tue 08 Jul 2003 07:34:06p, Steve <steve@nospam4me.org> wrote in
news:OxIOa.3669$9f7.399411@news02.tsnz.net:
Americans often pay far more when you take into account all the user
fees they must pay for services that Canadians get for free or cheap
through taxation.
Nothing is free. Any services you get for 'free' from the government,
you are paying for in your taxes, whether you use them or not.
--
__________
==\ /================================
===\ /==You know how dumb the average==
====\ /===guy is? Well half of everyone==
=====\ /======is even dumber than that=====
======\/====================================
http://31337.pl
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