Science > Abortion > Re: "Womens rights" Pennsylvania Abortion Case Raises Question of Choice for Men
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Harry Ballsac. Harry" |
| Date: |
22 Jun 2004 02:14:00 AM |
| Object: |
Re: "Womens rights" Pennsylvania Abortion Case Raises Question of Choice for Men |
Pennsylvania Abortion Case Raises
Question of Choice for Men
By Glenn Sacks and Dianna Thompson
John Stachokus, the Pennsylvania would-be father who lost his bid to
block his ex-girlfriend's abortion, has found himself in a position familiar
to millions of American men: He has a large personal stake in a decision in
which he is not allowed to take any part. His wishes are irrelevant. When it
comes to reproduction, in America today women have rights and men merely
have responsibilities.
When a woman wants a child and a man does not, the woman can have the
child anyway -- and demand 18 years of child support from the father. This
remains true even if the father had made it clear that he did not want to
have children, and even if the woman had previously agreed to respect his
wishes.
For decades, leading feminist organizations such as the National
Organization for Women and the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights
Action League have argued that women should have reproductive rights because
nobody should be able to tell them what to do with their own bodies. Thus
the slogan "My Body, My Choice."
But the sacrifices required to pay 18 years of child support should
not be discounted, either. The average American father works a 51-hour work
week, one of the longest in the industrialized world. It is men,
overwhelmingly, who do our society's hazardous jobs. Nearly 50 American
workers are injured every minute of the 40-hour work week. On average, every
day 17 die -- 16 of them male. Couldn't men who work long hours or do
hazardous jobs -- and who suffer the concomitant physical ailments and
injuries -- argue that their bodies are on the line, too? Where is their
choice?
NOW and NARAL were legitimately concerned that the Pennsylvania
anti-abortion injunction, which was issued on a temporary basis last
Wednesday and dissolved the following Monday, could have established a
precedent for giving men and the government control over an important aspect
of women's lives. But when a woman forces a man to be responsible for a
child only she wants, is she not exercising control over his life? And when
the massive government child-support apparatus hounds the reluctant father
for financial support, takes a third of his income and jails him if he comes
up short, isn't the government exercising control over his life? Advocates
of reproductive choice for men -- the right of an unmarried man to sign away
his parenting rights and responsibilities upon learning of an unwanted
pregnancy -- have a legitimate claim, based on the same arguments that
feminists have used to support their case for choice for women.
When the situation is reversed and the woman does not want to have a
child and the man does -- as is the case with Stachokus and his
ex-girlfriend, Tanya Meyers -- once again, women have rights and men do not.
A woman who doesn't want her child can terminate the pregnancy against the
father's wishes, or put their child up for adoption, sometimes without the
father's permission. In some states, she can even return the baby to the
hospital within a week of birth. More than 1 million American women legally
walk away from motherhood every year.
Perhaps, as some have argued, Stachokus was using his legal maneuvers
as a way to exercise control over the ex-girlfriend who broke up with him.
More likely he was simply a proud papa-to-be. Maybe he imagined his child to
be a little daddy's girl, or a son he would proudly raise to be a man. Or
perhaps he is just a stand-up guy who wanted to live up to what he sees as
his responsibilities.
Even if Stachokus had persuaded Meyers to have their child, he
probably would not have been allowed to be a meaningful part of his child's
life. Meyers does not want to marry or stay with him. Legal precedents --
and a stubbornly held but baseless cultural notion that children fare better
with their mothers -- suggest that, even though he was willing to take full
or partial custody, he would have had little chance of getting it. Many
unwed and divorced fathers face a difficult struggle to remain a part of
their children's lives.
Custodial mothers frequently violate fathers' visitation rights, and
courts do little to enforce them. Some custodial mothers move hundreds or
even thousands of miles away from their children's fathers, and it is
frequently difficult for these dads to maintain regular contact with their
kids.
Stachokus may have ended up like the hundreds of thousands of American
fathers who love children they are not able or allowed to see, and whose
suffering is ignored by a society that seems capable only of denigrating
fathers.
John, whatever move you made, you never had a chance. Welcome to
modern American fatherhood.
This column first appeared in Newsday (8/7/02) and the Pittsburgh
Post-Gazette (8/11/02)
Glenn Sacks writes about gender issues from the male perspective. He
can be reached at Glenn@GlennSacks.com. Dianna Thompson is a founder and
executive director of the American Coalition for Fathers and Children
(www.acfc.org). She can be contacted by e-mail at DThompson2232@aol.com.
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| User: "Bobs Boyfriend" |
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| Title: Re: "Womens rights" Pennsylvania Abortion Case Raises Question of Choice for Men |
24 Jun 2004 09:24:45 PM |
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In article <0inCc.5788$E84.4257@edtnps89>,
"Harry Ballsac.1a.." <Harry
Ballsac.1a..@the_national_socilaist_news_service.NDPP.gob> wrote:
"Bob's Boyfriend" <together@wyoming.com> wrote in message
news:together-26F191.17110723062004@nntp.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
In article <9YkCc.6361$HS3.2393@edtnps84>,
"Harry Ballsac.1a.." <Harry
Ballsac.1a..@the_national_socilaist_news_service.NDPP.gob> wrote:
"Bob's Boyfriend" <together@wyoming.com> wrote in message
news:together-42C335.00461423062004@nntp.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
In article <ZK6Cc.4979$E84.2532@edtnps89>,
"Harry Ballsac.1a.." <Harry
Ballsac.1a..@the_national_socilaist_news_service.NDPP.gob> wrote:
Arguing thatwomen's rights amounts to sexism and then arguing for
men's
rights IS sexism. Look who is the feminist!
Gee you think so, all I need to do is grow very large breasts and
get
fat on
bonbons
Do what you need to do Hairy.
The irony is that while I've been quite clear that I don't belong to
these organizations and your complaint seems to be with them, that you
complain to us here rather than take them to task.
wow is that what you believe, how wrong you are.....
Well....
How have you addressed the organizations that you are complaining about.
which one there are so many?
Any example will do...
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| User: "Harry Ballsac.1a.. Harry" |
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| Title: Re: "Womens rights" Pennsylvania Abortion Case Raises Question of Choice for Men |
22 Jun 2004 05:55:30 PM |
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"Bob's Boyfriend" <together@wyoming.com> wrote in message news:together-
Given the references that we've been treated
to like Lepine and Wyoming, I'm concerned about your 'political' agenda.
Mark Lepine was a freedom fighter..
Only Canadians would turn a mass murderer into a yearly celebrity, even
though he was an odd misogynist who appears to be a rarity in Canada (Ed
Journal Nov 7/00) . But every year like clock work, Mark Lepine is trotted
out as an example of what men are capable of.
When we hold out the Mark Lepines of this world and say that all men are
capable of such behavior, we are asking men to feel guilty for acts they are
not responsible for. This is no different than the popular argument that
men ruled history and are responsible for the domination of women since the
beginning of time. Once again, the men of our day are asked to feel the
guilt of all history and pay the price. No feminist would admit that the
price is to let women use the same tactics they have so loudly denounced as
oppressive for the purpose of writing the social policy that makes them
winners in the gender war. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that this war
is no different than the last one, and harder still to imagine how making
the world a guilt-ridden, hostile environment for men will somehow result in
a kinder, gentler masculinity. Until we start caring about the violence
done to men, and caring about men at all, our efforts to reduce violence
against women will not succeed.
Modern feminists never tire of saying that we still live in a patriarchal
society where men have the majority of power. This ignores the reality that
feminists have succeeded in developing laws biased in favour of women, while
usurping the right of due process for accused men. Male politicians go
along to get along with the feminists. These feminists do not speak for all
women, for there are many less vocal, less funded women who feel that the
feminist agenda of assuming all men are violent is creating a hostile world.
Ironically, women may be placed in more danger by the hopeless anguish this
generates for men.
I still remember with longing those few shining years in the early 80's that
were, in my view, the crowning achievent of feminism. It was when women
broke through the barriers of the public world to express their many
talents, while men began entering the private world of the family, and found
the freedom to express emotion and the talent for nurturing others. We were
sharing the best of both genders back then, but peace was so fleeting that I
think we missed it. Or do we miss it still?
Should I name all the women who killed there children with the likes of
Susan Smith, Andra Yates, should I go on and make you look even more stupid.
AKRON, Ohio -- A mother and her life partner allegedly subjected six
children in their care to abuses that shocked officials.
NewsChannel5's Brad Harvey reported that Akron police are still interviewing
the kids involved, but charges against the women may be pending. Officials
said the kids were regularly starved, beaten and locked up. Three of them
were kept prisoner in a closet for the last 2½ months, let out only once a
day for meager scraps of food. They were punished even to the point of
eating dog and cat feces as well as vomit, which caused them to become ill.
Neighbors saw the kids rarely, then not at all.
"But then, all of a sudden, we didn't hear nothing from them," neighbor Pam
Woodward said. "And, like, this past winter has been worse, where the house
stayed dark all the time." The children claimed that, at one point, the
women nailed down the windows to keep them from getting out. Somehow,
though, the boys pried nails, climbed out onto the porch and ran away.
Police found the emaciated and severely malnourished boys wandering the
streets barefoot. "It's one of the worst neglectful cases we've seen in a
very long time," said Joseph White Jr., director of Children's Services.
White said there's no question something went horribly wrong here, inside
the house and with the system itself. Although reports of abuse surfaced in
November, no one visited the home until after the first of the year, and
even then, no investigation was opened. "I have major concerns," White said.
"We're required to investigate cases of abuse within 24 to 72 hours. To have
this large a gap, I can't explain it. I don't know how it happened, and I
want to find out." The kids are between the ages of 6 and 14. One was 8
years old and weighed only 28 pounds.
2003 by NewsNet5.
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: "Womens rights" Pennsylvania Abortion Case Raises Question of Choice for Men |
23 Jun 2004 04:24:45 PM |
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"Harry Ballsac.1a.." <Harry
Ballsac.1a..@the_national_socilaist_news_service.NDPP.gob> wrote in message
news:CN2Cc.14595$mm3.8019@clgrps13...
Modern feminists never tire of saying that we still live in a patriarchal
society where men have the majority of power.
========================
You're 30 years BEHIND the times. Few women make that claim these days.
Your usual whining snipped.
--
FP.......
"We look at the ancient Greeks with their gods on a mountain top throwing
lightning bolts and say, 'Those ancient Greeks. They were so silly. So
primitive
and naive. Not like our religions. We have burning bushes talking to people
and
guys walking on water. We're ...sophisticated.'"
-= Paul Provenza =-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| User: "Harry Ballsac.1a.. Harry" |
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| Title: Re: "Womens rights" Pennsylvania Abortion Case Raises Question of Choice for Men |
23 Jun 2004 05:23:12 PM |
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"Flower Power" <FreeTheWomen@thisNG.edu> wrote in message
news:W6idnWxVrdy5aETdRVn-uw@heartoftn.net...
"Harry Ballsac.1a.." <Harry
Ballsac.1a..@the_national_socilaist_news_service.NDPP.gob> wrote in
message
news:CN2Cc.14595$mm3.8019@clgrps13...
Modern feminists never tire of saying that we still live in a
patriarchal
society where men have the majority of power.
========================
You're 30 years BEHIND the times. Few women make that claim these days.
Well if you feminist must live in the past you should get over the fact, no
one is buying your misandry and it makes you wild screeching feminist look
like dogs fighting over scraps
Your usual whining snipped.
Snipped added back in as the truth scares the crap out of these feminist
"Bob's Boyfriend" <together@wyoming.com> wrote in message news:together-
Given the references that we've been treated
to like Lepine and Wyoming, I'm concerned about your 'political' agenda.
Mark Lepine was a freedom fighter..as stated first by feminist themselves.
Only Canadians would turn a mass murderer into a yearly celebrity, even
though he was an odd misogynist who appears to be a rarity in Canada (Ed
Journal Nov 7/00) . But every year like clock work, Mark Lepine is trotted
out as an example of what men are capable of.
When we hold out the Mark Lepines of this world and say that all men are
capable of such behavior, we are asking men to feel guilty for acts they are
not responsible for. This is no different than the popular argument that
men ruled history and are responsible for the domination of women since the
beginning of time. Once again, the men of our day are asked to feel the
guilt of all history and pay the price. No feminist would admit that the
price is to let women use the same tactics they have so loudly denounced as
oppressive for the purpose of writing the social policy that makes them
winners in the gender war. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that this war
is no different than the last one, and harder still to imagine how making
the world a guilt-ridden, hostile environment for men will somehow result in
a kinder, gentler masculinity. Until we start caring about the violence
done to men, and caring about men at all, our efforts to reduce violence
against women will not succeed.
Modern feminists never tire of saying that we still live in a patriarchal
society where men have the majority of power. This ignores the reality that
feminists have succeeded in developing laws biased in favour of women, while
usurping the right of due process for accused men. Male politicians go
along to get along with the feminists. These feminists do not speak for all
women, for there are many less vocal, less funded women who feel that the
feminist agenda of assuming all men are violent is creating a hostile world.
Ironically, women may be placed in more danger by the hopeless anguish this
generates for men.
I still remember with longing those few shining years in the early 80's that
were, in my view, the crowning achievent of feminism. It was when women
broke through the barriers of the public world to express their many
talents, while men began entering the private world of the family, and found
the freedom to express emotion and the talent for nurturing others. We were
sharing the best of both genders back then, but peace was so fleeting that I
think we missed it. Or do we miss it still?
Should I name all the women who killed there children with the likes of
Susan Smith, Andra Yates, should I go on and make you look even more stupid.
AKRON, Ohio -- A mother and her life partner allegedly subjected six
children in their care to abuses that shocked officials.
NewsChannel5's Brad Harvey reported that Akron police are still interviewing
the kids involved, but charges against the women may be pending. Officials
said the kids were regularly starved, beaten and locked up. Three of them
were kept prisoner in a closet for the last 2½ months, let out only once a
day for meager scraps of food. They were punished even to the point of
eating dog and cat feces as well as vomit, which caused them to become ill.
Neighbors saw the kids rarely, then not at all.
"But then, all of a sudden, we didn't hear nothing from them," neighbor Pam
Woodward said. "And, like, this past winter has been worse, where the house
stayed dark all the time." The children claimed that, at one point, the
women nailed down the windows to keep them from getting out. Somehow,
though, the boys pried nails, climbed out onto the porch and ran away.
Police found the emaciated and severely malnourished boys wandering the
streets barefoot. "It's one of the worst neglectful cases we've seen in a
very long time," said Joseph White Jr., director of Children's Services.
White said there's no question something went horribly wrong here, inside
the house and with the system itself. Although reports of abuse surfaced in
November, no one visited the home until after the first of the year, and
even then, no investigation was opened. "I have major concerns," White said.
"We're required to investigate cases of abuse within 24 to 72 hours. To have
this large a gap, I can't explain it. I don't know how it happened, and I
want to find out." The kids are between the ages of 6 and 14. One was 8
years old and weighed only 28 pounds.
2003 by NewsNet5.
.
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: "Womens rights" Pennsylvania Abortion Case Raises Question of Choice for Men |
23 Jun 2004 09:12:59 PM |
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"Harry Ballsac.1a.." <Harry
Ballsac.1a..@the_national_socilaist_news_service.NDPP.gob> wrote in message
news:kpnCc.5796$E84.3367@edtnps89...
"Harry Ballsac.1a.." <Harry
Ballsac.1a..@the_national_socilaist_news_service.NDPP.gob> wrote in
message
news:CN2Cc.14595$mm3.8019@clgrps13...
Modern feminists never tire of saying that we still live in a
patriarchal
society where men have the majority of power.
========================
You're 30 years BEHIND the times. Few women make that claim these days.
Well if you feminist must live in the past you should get over the fact,
no
one is buying your misandry
==================
Your same old misogynistic repetitious, boring rant snipped.......
--
Flower Power.......
ANTI-Feminist definition: "Sick abusive controlling men" -->
adj. 1. A man who consistently supports
UNequal legal rights while opposing feminine equality.
2. Someone losing a debate with a feminist.
3. A woman who refuses to kowtow to ANTI-feminist propaganda.
Usually used as an ad-homonym attack because he has no reply (like Bob).
Translation: "You're wrong, but won't admit it."
Synonyms: terribly confused, defective brain, take the IQ-test, morons,
taking meds,
seek professional help, had one too many hits of crack, etc.
===============================================
.
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| User: "Harry Ballsac.1a.. Harry" |
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| Title: Re: "Womens rights" Pennsylvania Abortion Case Raises Question of Choice for Men |
24 Jun 2004 08:56:49 PM |
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"Flower Power" <FreeTheWomen@thisNG.edu> wrote in message
news:nPqdnWpKPf8upUfdRVn-hA@heartoftn.net...
....... Your same old misandry repetitious, boring rant.......Snipped
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| User: "Flower Power" |
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| Title: Re: "Womens rights" Pennsylvania Abortion Case Raises Question of Choice for Men |
25 Jun 2004 10:57:56 PM |
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"Harry Ballsac.1a.." <Harry
Ballsac.1a..@the_national_socilaist_news_service.NDPP.gob> wrote in message
news:BDLCc.2565$l6.1202@clgrps12...
"Flower Power" <FreeTheWomen@thisNG.edu> wrote in message
news:nPqdnWpKPf8upUfdRVn-hA@heartoftn.net...
...... Your same old misandry repetitious, boring rant.......Snipped
--------------------
Your same old misogynistic repetitious boring rant.......Snipped
--
Flower Power.......
ANTI-Feminist definition: "Sick abusive controlling men" -->
adj. 1. A man who consistently supports
UNequal legal rights while opposing feminine equality.
2. Someone losing a debate with a feminist.
3. A woman who refuses to kowtow to ANTI-feminist propaganda.
Usually used as an ad-homonym attack because he has no reply (like Bob).
Translation: "You're wrong, but won't admit it."
Synonyms: terribly confused, defective brain, take the IQ-test, morons,
taking meds,
seek professional help, had one too many hits of crack, etc.
===============================================
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