"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
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"Juanjo" <jonpetry@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
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"Juanjo" <jonpetry@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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"OrionCA" <orionca@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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On Sat, 22 May 2004 19:19:47 GMT,

RIDDANCE

on Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!) wrote:

Bush lost by more than 500,000 votes. And, heck, that's

even counting what Al Gore actually recieved in Florida.

Another moron who doesn't understand how the Electoral college

works.

Why am I not surprised?
--

Sparky, if you bothered to read the material you would know that

Bush

did

not win the vote in Florida, he stole it. Ole Mayor Daly couldn't

have

done

it better back in the 60's when it was easier. No Florida, no

electoral

college majority, no president Bush II. It turns out the exit

in

Florida were accurate and the early projections showing Gore would

win

in

Florida were correct. The people who did vote voted more for Gore

than

for

Bush as was true nationwide. Problem is their votes were not

counted.

Others were prevented from voting through trickery. Bush stole

election. That is not going to happen this election. Bush is

toast.

Please stick around in case your prediction is wrong, which I think

will.

I want to personally send you a message..after the elections.

Here is something else for you to chew on for a while

http://www.polidata.org/maps/Cy00p1cb.gif


enjoy

Nice map. Correct me if I am wrong but Gore did win the popular vote

did

he

not?

You act like that is the first time someone ever won the popular vote

still lost.
Next time teach some of the minorities that liberals make phoney

too, how to read a ballot card.

Your comment begs the original issue. Namely, if you bothered to read the
material you would know that Bush did
not win the vote in Florida, he stole it. Ole Mayor Daly couldn't have

it better back in the 60's when it was easier. No Florida, no electoral
college majority, no president Bush II. It turns out the exit polls in
Florida were accurate and the early projections showing Gore would win in
Florida were correct. The people who did vote voted more for Gore than

Bush as was true nationwide. Problem is their votes were not counted.
Others were prevented from voting through trickery. Bush stole the
election.

so in response to your comments and very pretty map:

1. Yes I am aware that there have been occasions when candidates have won
the popular vote but lost in the electoral college. When that happens

and square, I have no issue with it. I may not like it but that is the

our constitution is set up and until we amend it to allow for direct
election of presidents by abolishing the electoral college.

2. Despite the fact that your map looks all pretty in blue and red, the
fact still remains that the majority of people in this country rejected

and voted for Gore. The fact that some states like South Dakota with less
than one million in population voted mainly for Bush does not negate that
fact.

3. When one looks carefully at what happened in Florida one sees that the
republicans at the state level engaged in specific actions designed to
illegally prevent people in heavily democratic district from voting. The
chad issue and the design issue over the ballots is mainly smoke and
mirrors. If one looks at the original exit polls, the majority of people
exiting the voting booths thought they had voted for Gore. Their votes

discarded. They stole the election from Gore. Just like Daley stole the
election from Nixon.

4. Bush has failed at every business venture he has been involved in.

was a mediocre student at best. He was a drug abuser and drank heavily.

cynically has supported issues he knows he has no intention of funding

his "No Child Left Behind" nonsense. He has clamped down on civil
liberties. He has gutted the middle class and enriched the wealthy top 2%
of the country's population at the expense of our infrastructure and less
fortunate citizens. Our grandchildren will suffer through major deficits
caused by his financial excesses. He has engaged in a war which violates
international law and 200 years of American tradition and foreign policy

to mention the US Constitution. And in addition he is a moral and

coward who avoided his military obligation and yet through proxies accuses

man who did serve honorably and who was wounded in action of not really
deserving the purple hearts he received because his wounds were not

enough". The only blood Bush shed during the Vietnam war was when he cut
himself shaving because his hands were trembling so heavily after a night

drunken excess. He claims that Kerry is two faced on issues when if

looks closely at Bush's record you can see that he regularly opposes

and then when he sees they are going to go against him, adopts them and
claims them as his own. He is a mental midget who doesn't read, doesn't
understand complex matters and could care less.

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:PMSdnYDfJKanoC3dRVn-vA@comcast.com...

"Juanjo" <jonpetry@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
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"OrionCA" <orionca@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:s3tva0him7jd8784i8rhhhssmjtj3fkgtf@4ax.com...

On Sat, 22 May 2004 19:19:47 GMT,

RIDDANCE

on Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!) wrote:

Bush lost by more than 500,000 votes. And, heck, that's not
even counting what Al Gore actually recieved in Florida.

Another moron who doesn't understand how the Electoral college

works.

Why am I not surprised?
--

Sparky, if you bothered to read the material you would know that

Bush

did

not win the vote in Florida, he stole it. Ole Mayor Daly couldn't

have

done

it better back in the 60's when it was easier. No Florida, no

electoral

college majority, no president Bush II. It turns out the exit polls

in

Florida were accurate and the early projections showing Gore would

win

in

Florida were correct. The people who did vote voted more for Gore

than

for

Bush as was true nationwide. Problem is their votes were not

counted.

Others were prevented from voting through trickery. Bush stole the
election. That is not going to happen this election. Bush is

toast.

Please stick around in case your prediction is wrong, which I think it

will.

I want to personally send you a message..after the elections.

Here is something else for you to chew on for a while

http://www.polidata.org/maps/Cy00p1cb.gif


enjoy

Nice map. Correct me if I am wrong but Gore did win the popular vote

did

he

not?

You act like that is the first time someone ever won the popular vote and
still lost.
Next time teach some of the minorities that liberals make phoney promises
too, how to read a ballot card.

Your comment begs the original issue. Namely, if you bothered to read the
material you would know that Bush did
not win the vote in Florida, he stole it. Ole Mayor Daly couldn't have done
it better back in the 60's when it was easier. No Florida, no electoral
college majority, no president Bush II. It turns out the exit polls in
Florida were accurate and the early projections showing Gore would win in
Florida were correct. The people who did vote voted more for Gore than for
Bush as was true nationwide. Problem is their votes were not counted.
Others were prevented from voting through trickery. Bush stole the
election.

so in response to your comments and very pretty map:

1. Yes I am aware that there have been occasions when candidates have won
the popular vote but lost in the electoral college. When that happens fair
and square, I have no issue with it.

I may not like it but that is the way
our constitution is set up and until we amend it to allow for direct
election of presidents by abolishing the electoral college.

2. Despite the fact that your map looks all pretty in blue and red, the
fact still remains that the majority of people in this country rejected Bush
and voted for Gore. The fact that some states like South Dakota with less
than one million in population voted mainly for Bush does not negate that
fact.

3. When one looks carefully at what happened in Florida one sees that the
republicans at the state level engaged in specific actions designed to
illegally prevent people in heavily democratic district from voting. The
chad issue and the design issue over the ballots is mainly smoke and
mirrors.

If one looks at the original exit polls, the majority of people
exiting the voting booths thought they had voted for Gore.

Their votes were discarded.

They stole the election from Gore. Just like Daley stole the
election from Nixon.

4. Bush has failed at every business venture he has been involved in.

He was a mediocre student at best. He was a drug abuser and drank heavily. He
cynically has supported issues he knows he has no intention of funding like
his "No Child Left Behind" nonsense. He has clamped down on civil
liberties. He has gutted the middle class and enriched the wealthy top 2%
of the country's population at the expense of our infrastructure and less
fortunate citizens. Our grandchildren will suffer through major deficits
caused by his financial excesses. He has engaged in a war which violates
international law and 200 years of American tradition and foreign policy not
to mention the US Constitution. And in addition he is a moral and physical
coward who avoided his military obligation and yet through proxies accuses a
man who did serve honorably and who was wounded in action of not really
deserving the purple hearts he received because his wounds were not "severe
enough". The only blood Bush shed during the Vietnam war was when he cut
himself shaving because his hands were trembling so heavily after a night of
drunken excess. He claims that Kerry is two faced on issues when if anyone
looks closely at Bush's record you can see that he regularly opposes issues
and then when he sees they are going to go against him, adopts them and
claims them as his own. He is a mental midget who doesn't read, doesn't
understand complex matters and could care less.

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:2ImdnekXMoMj0y3dRVn-uA@comcast.com...

"EagleEye" <eagleeye@alpha.org> wrote in message
news:JTXrc.100053$325.2497683@news20.bellglobal.com...

"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in message
news:h4-dnSXQUobyuy3dRVn-tA@comcast.com...

"Juanjo" <jonpetry@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:HyVrc.6708$be.1357@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...

"OrionCA" <orionca@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:s3tva0him7jd8784i8rhhhssmjtj3fkgtf@4ax.com...

On Sat, 22 May 2004 19:19:47 GMT,

RIDDANCE

on Nov. 2nd to Dishonest Warmonger-in-Thief G.W. Bush!) wrote:

Bush lost by more than 500,000 votes. And, heck, that's not
even counting what Al Gore actually recieved in Florida.

Another moron who doesn't understand how the Electoral college

works.

Why am I not surprised?
--

Sparky, if you bothered to read the material you would know that

Bush

did

not win the vote in Florida, he stole it. Ole Mayor Daly couldn't

have

done

it better back in the 60's when it was easier. No Florida, no

electoral

college majority, no president Bush II. It turns out the exit polls

in

Florida were accurate and the early projections showing Gore would

win

in

Florida were correct. The people who did vote voted more for Gore

than

for

Bush as was true nationwide. Problem is their votes were not

counted.

Others were prevented from voting through trickery. Bush stole the
election. That is not going to happen this election. Bush is

toast.

Please stick around in case your prediction is wrong, which I think it

will.

I want to personally send you a message..after the elections.

Here is something else for you to chew on for a while

http://www.polidata.org/maps/Cy00p1cb.gif

Thanks for that map. That was VERY helpful you have no idea!

Not a problem

http://www.polidata.org/maps/Cy00p1cb.gif

It will be a problem is you are a stauch Republican Conservative Bush
supporter, but we are still very grateful that you posted that.

Here are some observations, from the discussion that ensued in the Kerry
Website Forum, when I grabbed this torch and ran with it.


It looks to me like a infrared map showing brain power. Blue=cold, bumpkins,
dullards. Red=hot, thinking types.

Seriously, it looks like a population density map. Just look at the "Night
Face of North America", a photo of city light pollution from space, and it
looks just like the 2000 map, except the white areas are red, and the blue
areas are black.

It looks like the more urban people are, the more integrated they are into
our society, integrated in a literal geographical sense, the more they vote
Democratic.

Conversely, the more isolated and retrogressive rural areas exist in
relative isolation and vote GOP.

Sadly, many of the people in these rural areas are the ones most desperately
in need of social programs. Their lives often depend on Federal subsistence
assistance and their hopes for a better future depend on Federal education
and training assistance.

Unfortunately, they have been tricked into voting on marginal issues such as
gun control and religion, rather than on the real issues such as economic
and foreign policy. That's the cruelest and most dishonest trick of the GOP,
IMHO.

headhunter Posted: May 23 2004, 01:03 AM

On second thought, third though, I would overlay my polling map overtop of
a light-infrastructure map, taken at night from a satellite image, showing
all the night lights of the USA, which obviously shows those areas with the
highest concentration of civil infrastructure - and then, I would run my
comprehansive Radio and Newspaper add campaign, in the most densely
populated and "infrastructured" areas, centering each and every Kerry
expanding "bubble" right on those areas *in between* the solid red areas,
since they've already been "captured" are are highly unlikely to change
their mind, particularly in THIS race.

When overlaying these Maps, a certain trend emerges I suspect, that points
to something very favourable to an emergent Democratic base of power, and
that is this.

The Democratic support base appears to emanate from most densely populated
regions of the country, which suggests that "progressives" tend to be the
more sophisticated in the population, which makes sense in so far as these
people live in a much more fast paced and progressive world, their worldview
being based on fast paced change. Please campaign, get a nightime satellite
image of the US and lay it over your polling numbers, and this will become
quite clear I believe.

Taking this notion a little bit further, and it might even be relatively
safe to conclude that special interests, corporate special interests that
is, actually take advantage of the Republican conservative mindset, as the
easiest "prey", being less sophisticated and more rooted in maintaining the
"status quo", thus making the control point, via the dumbing down of the
populace, a much easier forum or mould in which to enact a sustained and a
"creeping" point of leverage, from which to gain increasing control and
power, over time. Thus we have all this money going into these "conservative
think tanks" in order to shape and to mould the collective American
consciousness, psyche, and worldview, along lines favourable to the dominion
of the few over the many. The fruits of this endeavour are plain to see all
around now.

This analysis is very simple, yet profound in its implications for a longer
term emergent Democratic base of power, emanating from the will of the
people, and thus righting the ship and getting it redirected in increasing
congruent allignment with the greater group consience, as expressed by the
greatest possible number of American citizens, through their
representatives, via the process of authentic representative democracy.

So forget about battleground states, and think instead of battleground
regions, and spheres of demographics, centered on the most densely populated
"light cones" of information and communications dissemination across the
more traditional human and civil communications infrastructure channels,
rather than just simple TV advertising.

To win by a landslide requires out-of-the-box thinking, and major shifts in
worldview paradigms, thus moving the battle front to a whole new level.

And lastly, given that *the meaning of communication, is the response you
get*, why not employ the much less expensive communications mediums of Radio
broadcasting, and local Newspapers, both of whom would be more than happy to
sell discounted airtime, and space, to the Kerry Campaign, who would in
effect be able to beat the Bush camp to the punch in engaging these less
expensive mediums of localized communication.

So while Kerry is busy raising his next 100 Million for TV adds, to run in
BETWEEN these TWO conventions now, given the delay in accepting the
nomination, for very sound reasons, - these other less expensive mediums
could be engaged in a big way, BIG TIME, to "get the word and the message"
OUT across the entire spectrum and across the entire landscape where it
really counts.

Heck, if you just drew a line down half the United States, where the light
ends, and on the left, take the entire west coast, and on the right, the
entire densly populated and infrastructued area, from the left edge of the
great lakes all the way across and down, being sure to get Florida into the
fold, then there it is!

So if you've got another 25 Million to spend campaign, that's where I'd be
putting it, in order to get the best bang for your buck.

Continuous polling (CONTINUOUS PROCESS IMPROVEMENT), overlaid maps, and a
highly responsive, and less expensive add campaign which hits people where
they live on local and regional issues that matter most to them, winning
first the urban areas as a 1st things 1st priority, and then sweeping
outwardly into the rural areas in between, would be a good front from which
to wage this thing IMHO.

Bubbles.

In the Bermuda Triangle, it is suspected that it is a massive upwelling and
emergence of bubbles from gaseous emissions under the ocean floor, that are
what cause the ships to go down without a trace, since they lose all boyancy
in the foam.

The American psyche is much the same, having been repressed at the depths of
the heart by the Bush/Cheney Whitehouse lies and misleadership. So go down
deep with the best possible NLP psychological framing you can muster, and
UNLEASH THE BUBBLES , in the most densely populated and sophisticated areas
of the country, and that should very easily take down their ship in a hurry,
or I sould say in a HURRAYYYY!

The entirety of the United States, once broken down into regions, is a VERY
FINITE SEARCH UNIVERSE.

headhunter Posted: May 23 2004, 01:04 AM

QUOTE (nolson @ May 23 2004, 12:00 AM)
It looks to me like a infrared map showing brain power. Blue=cold, bumpkins,
dullards. Red=hot, thinking types.

Seriously, it looks like a population density map. Just look at the "Night
Face of North America", a photo of city light pollution from space, and it
looks just like the 2000 map, except the white areas are red, and the blue
areas are black.

It looks like the more urban people are, the more integrated they are into
our society, integrated in a literal geographical sense, the more they vote
Democratic.

Conversely, the more isolated and retrogressive rural areas exist in
relative isolation and vote GOP.

Sadly, many of the people in these rural areas are the ones most desperately
in need of social programs. Their lives often depend on Federal subsistence
assistance and their hopes for a better future depend on Federal education
and training assistance.

Unfortunately, they have been tricked into voting on marginal issues such as
gun control and religion, rather than on the real issues such as economic
and foreign policy. That's the cruelest and most dishonest trick of the GOP,
IMHO.


Wow, I was busy with my post while you posted yours!

Great minds thnk alike I guess, eh?

headhunter Posted: May 23 2004, 01:34 AM

QUOTE (nolson @ May 23 2004, 12:00 AM)
Sadly, many of the people in these rural areas are the ones most desperately
in need of social programs. Their lives often depend on Federal subsistence
assistance and their hopes for a better future depend on Federal education
and training assistance.

Unfortunately, they have been tricked into voting on marginal issues such as
gun control and religion, rather than on the real issues such as economic
and foreign policy. That's the cruelest and most dishonest trick of the
GOP, IMHO.


Great observation. I was thinking of that as well.

Ironically and congruently, Democrative principals of social justice address
this issue head on.

I appears to me that the right is going to have to move decisively leftward,
and that we, the nurterers, are the leaders and the greater Americans, and
they, the cold disciplinarians (without any discipline I might add), are the
followers.

In conclusion, in terms of the largest possible frame of reference, which is
the family, at all levels, we, and Kerry, clearly possess the dominant frame
of reference.

Civility:
Consciously motivated organizational behavior that it ETHICAL in submission
to an ever higher power unto the highest possible hightower standard of
justice and individual civil liberty, that is both possible, and imaginable.

The motive force, the impetus or the stimulant, which serves as the catalyst
driving civility and therefore civilized progress forward - is Love.

Love is the WILL, to give of one's self for the best possible *enlightened*
mutual self interest of ALL, with an emphasis on raising "the other's"
continued physical and mental/spiritual growth and well being, raising in
the process what is low, to increasingly higher heights.

Love to BE love, must entail action, and more action, since faith in the
common cause and in the mission, vision and purpose, without works, is dead.

Love therefore must be highly disciplined, grabbing up and employing the
tools of discipline through implementation. The tools are four.

Delay of Gratification
Acceptance of Responsibility
Dedication to Truth
Balancing

The WILL to use the tools of discipline is, once again, Love.

Civility is therefore a circle, moving in increasing spheres of civilized
influence, from the core of Love, which is forever extending or expanding
the very realm of the self, for that sake of what is in the best possible
mutual self interest of ALL in the house!

And finally the mechanism or the springboard from which Civility and
therefore Civilized Progress is unleashed, is through a true and authentic
Mastermind Alliance, which is two or more people (and nations?) working
together in a (relative) spirit of harmony, to realize a definite purpose,
which, beginning with the end in mind, aims at the target of a wholly just
and noble historical pursuit, unleashing this entire process again, and
again, unto a global transformation in human affairs or in human relations,
or put simply "God's gift of liberty to the world."

"I ask for mercy, and not sacrifice"
~ Jesus Christ, the ultimate Liberal Democrat Progressive, visionary and
harbinger of this very process and framework. For further *enlightenment*,
read the Sermon on the Mount, the Parable of The Good Sameritan, and 13
Corinthians on Love.

So Bush is wrong, the "Neocons" are wrong, and the Republican Conservative
Leadership and base of power, is wrong, and we, the true nurturers of the
gardening process, we are right. We possess the truth and the light, and the
more powerful frame of reference. They are waning, and we are waxing. They
are descendant, and we are ascendant, and when left and right meet in the
middle, as two sides of the same coin, then and ONLY then, will there be a
true blue "new world order" who's dominion rises towards and emanates down
and outwardly from, God of the highest, in increasing spheres of mutuality
and Godliness, forever.