Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature)



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Topic: Science > Abortion
User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass"
Date: 12 Jan 2006 01:17:03 AM
Object: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature)
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm
Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.
That claim is based on another study which repeats a historic
survey first made in 1916 by Dr. James Leuba of Bryn Mawr University.
It revealed that over eight decades ago, only about 40% of the
scientists surveyed expressed belief in any supreme being. Leuba
predicted that advances in education and technology would further
erode faith in religious claims.
In 1997, Edward Larson of the University of Georgia decided to
revisit Leuba's study and evaluate the prediction that religious
belief was disappearing, at least in the scientific community. Author
of the book "Summer for the God's" and a professor of science law and
history, Larson said that Leuba's original survey raised "good
questions."
"They provoke responses and give much more insight into how people
think than the vague Gallup poll question, 'Do you believe in God?'"
he told a writer from Research Reporter.
Larson closely followed Leuba's methodology, repeating the same
questions and attempting to find a representative sample which met the
original survey profile. "I had no idea how it would turn out," Larson
said.
60% responded, a figure considered high for any surveys. Of those,
40% expressed belief in a deity, while nearly 45% did not. Larson's
survey also discovered that physicists were less likely to have such
faith, while mathematicians were significantly more likely to believe
in a supreme being, as defined by Leuba.
"NATURE" SURVEY -- LESS AND LESS BELIEF
The follow-up study reported in "Nature" reveals that the rate of
belief is lower than eight decades ago. The latest survey involved 517
members of the National Academy of Sciences; half replied. When
queried about belief in "personal god," only 7% responded in the
affirmative, while 72.2% expressed "personal disbelief," and 20.8%
expressed "doubt or agnosticism." Belief in the concept of human
immortality, i.e. life after death declined from the 35.2% measured in
1914 to just 7.9%. 76.7% reject the "human immortality" tenet,
compared with 25.4% in 1914, and 23.2% claimed "doubt or agnosticism"
on the question, compared with 43.7% in Leuba's original measurement.
Again, though, the highest rate of belief in a god was found among
mathematicians (14.3%), while the lowest was found among those in the
life sciences fields -- only 5.5%.
THE GLASS IS EMPTIER...
Dr. Larson, in commenting on his 1997 replication of the 1916
study, noted that as with Leuba's report, his revelations elicited
wildly different accounts in the news media. "It's being spun in
different ways," Larson observed. "The Christian Science Monitor ran
an editorial exhorting the fact that scientists still do believe --
despite the fact that well less than half of the scientists in my
survey believed in God -- while the Journal of Humanism ran a piece
proclaiming that they do not."
"Is the glass half empty or half full?," Larson asked.
It would be difficult to interpret the figures reported in
"Nature," though, as suggesting that belief within the scientific
community is gaining popularity, or even holding its own. The "belief
in a person god" category suggests a precipitous drop, from about 40%
in Larson's survey to 7% in the "Nature" study.
CHANGING VIEWS OF SCIENCE, RELIGION, GOD
While Leuba and his study were historic curiosities when Dr.
Larson and co-researcher Larry Witham decided to revisit the findings,
during its time the 1916 survey ignited considerable controversy. Paul
Karr of Research Reporter noted that Leuba's findings "touched off an
anti-evolutionary movement that would culminate in the historic Scopes
trial where science and Darwinism faced off against Christianity and
creationism for the mind and soul of the American schoolchild."
Indeed, just nine years after the Leuba findings, high school biology
teacher John T. Scopes (1900-1970) was in the middle of a legal
controversy, accused of violating Tennessee's Butler Act which forbade
the teaching of evolution in the state's public schools. The trial
drew worldwide publicity, and was soon dubbed the Monkey Trial due to
popular misconceptions about evolutionary findings -- that "people
came from monkeys."
Criminal attorney Clarence Darrow faced off against the
prosecution's most illustrious witness, former U.S. Secretary of State
William Jennings Bryan, a populist known for his famous "Cross of
Gold" oration. Darrow conceded "the facts of the case," that Scopes
had indeed violated the Butler Act -- but he also argued for the
scientific validity of evolution. Scopes was convicted and fined $100,
but the state supreme court later overturned the verdict on technical
grounds; meanwhile, the Butler Act remained on the books in Tennessee
until 1967.
But William Jennings Bryan, the consummate politician, also was
typical of the "amateur scientist" of the late nineteenth and early
twentieth century. He was a member of the American Association for the
Advancement of Science, but as described by Edward Davis in a review
of "Redeeming Culture: American Religion in an Age of Science (James
Gilbert, University of Chicago Press, 1997), was also "representative
of an older, less abstract, way of understanding scientific knowledge,
a common sense Baconianism that eschewed speculative hypotheses (such
as evolution) and saw both science and religion as ways of glorifying
God."
The paradigm exemplified by Bryan -- the practical, "amateur
scientist" who understood the scientific enterprise as a reaffirmation
of the sacred -- may be even less represented today within the
academic community than when John Scopes went to trial in Dayton,
Tennessee nearly three-quarters-of-a-century ago. Evolution, a core
tenet of modern life sciences such as biology, was not a major point
of contention even among professional academicians then. It reflected
the tension between the "common sense" position of the "amateur
scientists" and the more rigorously trained professionals. Davis
argues that "Bryan's 'greatest mistake' was to assume that this view
of science was still operative among professional scientists in the
1920s. Because it was still part of the popular conception of science,
however, his actions leading up to the Scopes trial 'revealed a fault
line between popular and professional science.'"
Today, the fault line appears between the scientific community
which increasingly doubts supernatural or religion-based explanations
of how the universe operates, and the wider popular culture which is
in the midst of both a fundamentalist revival, and a disturbing
popularity of new age and related pseudo science beliefs. One example
could be the recent article in Newsweek Magazine, which suggests a
convergence of scientific opinion and more traditional religious
doctrines. The agreement may exist more in the news rooms of popular
magazines, than in the libraries, labs and observatories where
scientists actually do their work.
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka
aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -2209 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
-----
"Now, did I want to go? Hell no."
-duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net), aka PedophilEarl J Weber, 63
year old mateless, heirless biological failure
of Afton Oaks Apartment, Baton Rouge, on why
a Neocon chickenhawk like him pussied out of
the Vietnam War.
Contact duke's priest and ask
him why duke loves to play
with little girls' nipples:
http://www.stpatrickbr.org/
Father Gerard "Jerry" Martin
Saint Patrick Catholic Church
12424 Brogdon Lane
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70816
.

User: "HoneyBadger scotnormanviking.net"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 28 Jan 2006 07:31:47 AM
It's called worshipping at the altar of your own intellect.
Good luck with that.
--
Mellivora Capensis
.

User: "duke"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 12 Jan 2006 05:28:24 PM
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 23:17:03 -0800, "Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine
Snorting *****" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote:

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.

Yet most medical doctors profess a belief in God. Stick to making chinese
cookies, yang.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
User: "Paul Duca"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The JournalNature) 12 Jan 2006 07:49:47 PM
Which explains Duke...
Paul
.


User: ""

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 12 Jan 2006 02:35:53 AM
Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.

That claim is based on another study which repeats a historic
survey first made in 1916 by Dr. James Leuba of Bryn Mawr University.
It revealed that over eight decades ago, only about 40% of the
scientists surveyed expressed belief in any supreme being. Leuba
predicted that advances in education and technology would further
erode faith in religious claims.

In 1997, Edward Larson of the University of Georgia decided to
revisit Leuba's study and evaluate the prediction that religious
belief was disappearing, at least in the scientific community. Author
of the book "Summer for the God's" and a professor of science law and
history, Larson said that Leuba's original survey raised "good
questions."

"They provoke responses and give much more insight into how people
think than the vague Gallup poll question, 'Do you believe in God?'"
he told a writer from Research Reporter.

Larson closely followed Leuba's methodology, repeating the same
questions and attempting to find a representative sample which met the
original survey profile. "I had no idea how it would turn out," Larson
said.

60% responded, a figure considered high for any surveys. Of those,
40% expressed belief in a deity, while nearly 45% did not. Larson's
survey also discovered that physicists were less likely to have such
faith, while mathematicians were significantly more likely to believe
in a supreme being, as defined by Leuba.


"NATURE" SURVEY -- LESS AND LESS BELIEF
The follow-up study reported in "Nature" reveals that the rate of
belief is lower than eight decades ago. The latest survey involved 517
members of the National Academy of Sciences; half replied. When
queried about belief in "personal god," only 7% responded in the
affirmative, while 72.2% expressed "personal disbelief," and 20.8%
expressed "doubt or agnosticism." Belief in the concept of human
immortality, i.e. life after death declined from the 35.2% measured in
1914 to just 7.9%. 76.7% reject the "human immortality" tenet,
compared with 25.4% in 1914, and 23.2% claimed "doubt or agnosticism"
on the question, compared with 43.7% in Leuba's original measurement.
Again, though, the highest rate of belief in a god was found among
mathematicians (14.3%), while the lowest was found among those in the
life sciences fields -- only 5.5%.


THE GLASS IS EMPTIER...
Dr. Larson, in commenting on his 1997 replication of the 1916
study, noted that as with Leuba's report, his revelations elicited
wildly different accounts in the news media. "It's being spun in
different ways," Larson observed. "The Christian Science Monitor ran
an editorial exhorting the fact that scientists still do believe --
despite the fact that well less than half of the scientists in my
survey believed in God -- while the Journal of Humanism ran a piece
proclaiming that they do not."

"Is the glass half empty or half full?," Larson asked.

It would be difficult to interpret the figures reported in
"Nature," though, as suggesting that belief within the scientific
community is gaining popularity, or even holding its own. The "belief
in a person god" category suggests a precipitous drop, from about 40%
in Larson's survey to 7% in the "Nature" study.


CHANGING VIEWS OF SCIENCE, RELIGION, GOD
While Leuba and his study were historic curiosities when Dr.
Larson and co-researcher Larry Witham decided to revisit the findings,
during its time the 1916 survey ignited considerable controversy. Paul
Karr of Research Reporter noted that Leuba's findings "touched off an
anti-evolutionary movement that would culminate in the historic Scopes
trial where science and Darwinism faced off against Christianity and
creationism for the mind and soul of the American schoolchild."
Indeed, just nine years after the Leuba findings, high school biology
teacher John T. Scopes (1900-1970) was in the middle of a legal
controversy, accused of violating Tennessee's Butler Act which forbade
the teaching of evolution in the state's public schools. The trial
drew worldwide publicity, and was soon dubbed the Monkey Trial due to
popular misconceptions about evolutionary findings -- that "people
came from monkeys."

Criminal attorney Clarence Darrow faced off against the
prosecution's most illustrious witness, former U.S. Secretary of State
William Jennings Bryan, a populist known for his famous "Cross of
Gold" oration. Darrow conceded "the facts of the case," that Scopes
had indeed violated the Butler Act -- but he also argued for the
scientific validity of evolution. Scopes was convicted and fined $100,
but the state supreme court later overturned the verdict on technical
grounds; meanwhile, the Butler Act remained on the books in Tennessee
until 1967.

But William Jennings Bryan, the consummate politician, also was
typical of the "amateur scientist" of the late nineteenth and early
twentieth century. He was a member of the American Association for the
Advancement of Science, but as described by Edward Davis in a review
of "Redeeming Culture: American Religion in an Age of Science (James
Gilbert, University of Chicago Press, 1997), was also "representative
of an older, less abstract, way of understanding scientific knowledge,
a common sense Baconianism that eschewed speculative hypotheses (such
as evolution) and saw both science and religion as ways of glorifying
God."

The paradigm exemplified by Bryan -- the practical, "amateur
scientist" who understood the scientific enterprise as a reaffirmation
of the sacred -- may be even less represented today within the
academic community than when John Scopes went to trial in Dayton,
Tennessee nearly three-quarters-of-a-century ago. Evolution, a core
tenet of modern life sciences such as biology, was not a major point
of contention even among professional academicians then. It reflected
the tension between the "common sense" position of the "amateur
scientists" and the more rigorously trained professionals. Davis
argues that "Bryan's 'greatest mistake' was to assume that this view
of science was still operative among professional scientists in the
1920s. Because it was still part of the popular conception of science,
however, his actions leading up to the Scopes trial 'revealed a fault
line between popular and professional science.'"

Today, the fault line appears between the scientific community
which increasingly doubts supernatural or religion-based explanations
of how the universe operates, and the wider popular culture which is
in the midst of both a fundamentalist revival, and a disturbing
popularity of new age and related pseudo science beliefs. One example
could be the recent article in Newsweek Magazine, which suggests a
convergence of scientific opinion and more traditional religious
doctrines. The agreement may exist more in the news rooms of popular
magazines, than in the libraries, labs and observatories where
scientists actually do their work.



-----

Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka

aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)

The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -2209 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting

Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless

-----


"Now, did I want to go? Hell no."
-duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net), aka PedophilEarl J Weber, 63
year old mateless, heirless biological failure
of Afton Oaks Apartment, Baton Rouge, on why
a Neocon chickenhawk like him pussied out of
the Vietnam War.

Contact duke's priest and ask
him why duke loves to play
with little girls' nipples:

http://www.stpatrickbr.org/
Father Gerard "Jerry" Martin
Saint Patrick Catholic Church
12424 Brogdon Lane
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70816

Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.
What a waste of post graduate education.
.
User: "Dave"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 15 Jan 2006 08:28:19 AM
wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.
[...]


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.
What a waste of post graduate education.

Life is a waste when a religious fantasy is leading you around by the
nose. Pretend to follow Jesus but ignore most of what he said. Pretend
to believe in the Bible but never bother to figure out how absurd and
invalid it is, or even what rules and teachings Jesus himself
invalidated.
.
User: "Bill Bonde Soli Deo Gloria"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 15 Jan 2006 02:29:43 PM
Dave wrote:


tnbracing@yahoo.com wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.
[...]


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.
What a waste of post graduate education.


Life is a waste when a religious fantasy is leading you around by the
nose. Pretend to follow Jesus but ignore most of what he said. Pretend
to believe in the Bible but never bother to figure out how absurd and
invalid it is, or even what rules and teachings Jesus himself
invalidated.

YAAA, Yet Another Angry Atheist.
--
"He named his second child Jim after the horse that had brought him to
Washington. He caught his son one day writing 'James' on his lessons,
and he told the boy without raising his voice that if he had wanted to
name him 'James', that is what he would have done." -+Edward P. Jones,
"The Known World"
.


User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 12 Jan 2006 02:46:24 AM
On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,
wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.

So you need self-delusion to justify your life?
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka
aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -2209 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
-----
"Now, did I want to go? Hell no."
-duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net), aka PedophilEarl J Weber, 63
year old mateless, heirless biological failure
of Afton Oaks Apartment, Baton Rouge, on why
a Neocon chickenhawk like him pussied out of
the Vietnam War.
Contact duke's priest and ask
him why duke loves to play
with little girls' nipples:
http://www.stpatrickbr.org/
Father Gerard "Jerry" Martin
Saint Patrick Catholic Church
12424 Brogdon Lane
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70816
.
User: "Bill Bonde Soli Deo Gloria"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 12 Jan 2006 04:14:38 PM
"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****" wrote:


On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.


So you need self-delusion to justify your life?

Why do you feel the need to try to take away someone else's feelings of
well being to bolster your own? The Angry Atheist seems very common. How
about atheists who think that it's fine of people believe in religion?
--
"He named his second child Jim after the horse that had brought him to
Washington. He caught his son one day writing 'James' on his lessons,
and he told the boy without raising his voice that if he had wanted to
name him 'James', that is what he would have done." -+Edward P. Jones,
"The Known World"
.
User: "Olrik"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 12 Jan 2006 11:02:00 PM
Bill Bonde ('Soli Deo Gloria') wrote:


"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****" wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:


Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.


So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Why do you feel the need to try to take away someone else's feelings of
well being to bolster your own? The Angry Atheist seems very common. How
about atheists who think that it's fine of people believe in religion?

Most atheists I know (regardless of this ng) don't care about ordinary
believers. But when godbot fundies post to alt.atheism, they're fair-game.
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.
User: "Bill Bonde by a commodius vicus of"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 13 Jan 2006 01:18:10 AM
Olrik wrote:


Bill Bonde ('Soli Deo Gloria') wrote:


"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****" wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:


Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.


So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Why do you feel the need to try to take away someone else's feelings of
well being to bolster your own? The Angry Atheist seems very common. How
about atheists who think that it's fine of people believe in religion?


Most atheists I know (regardless of this ng) don't care about ordinary
believers. But when godbot fundies post to alt.atheism, they're fair-game.

Keeping in mind that it is Yang, the Angry Atheist, who is trolling into
other groups to drag in people of faith.
--
"It's a good thing to be merciless, it comes in useful when dealing with
the young."
"Believe it or not, you can be as rude as you like, I don't take it
personally."
"That's another good way of taking the fun out of teaching."
-+"Butley", Alan Bates, Simon Gray, Harold Pinter
.
User: "Robibnikoff"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 13 Jan 2006 08:01:27 AM
"Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation')"
<prepend@postpend.net.ru> wrote in message
news:43C754DF.32827BBB@postpend.net.ru...



Olrik wrote:


Bill Bonde ('Soli Deo Gloria') wrote:


"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****" wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:


Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely
than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.


So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Why do you feel the need to try to take away someone else's feelings of
well being to bolster your own? The Angry Atheist seems very common.
How
about atheists who think that it's fine of people believe in religion?


Most atheists I know (regardless of this ng) don't care about ordinary
believers. But when godbot fundies post to alt.atheism, they're
fair-game.

Keeping in mind that it is Yang, the Angry Atheist, who is trolling into
other groups to drag in people of faith.

Oh well, what the hell are we supposed to do about it?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
User: "Bill Bonde Soli Deo Gloria"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 13 Jan 2006 04:30:51 PM
Robibnikoff wrote:


"Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus of recirculation')"
<prepend@postpend.net.ru> wrote in message
news:43C754DF.32827BBB@postpend.net.ru...



Olrik wrote:


Bill Bonde ('Soli Deo Gloria') wrote:


"Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting *****" wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:


Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely
than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.


So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Why do you feel the need to try to take away someone else's feelings of
well being to bolster your own? The Angry Atheist seems very common.
How
about atheists who think that it's fine of people believe in religion?


Most atheists I know (regardless of this ng) don't care about ordinary
believers. But when godbot fundies post to alt.atheism, they're
fair-game.

Keeping in mind that it is Yang, the Angry Atheist, who is trolling into
other groups to drag in people of faith.


Oh well, what the hell are we supposed to do about it?

At least take serious the supposition that Yang is an Angry Atheist.
--
"He named his second child Jim after the horse that had brought him to
Washington. He caught his son one day writing 'James' on his lessons,
and he told the boy without raising his voice that if he had wanted to
name him 'James', that is what he would have done." -+Edward P. Jones,
"The Known World"
.





User: ""

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 12 Jan 2006 03:28:50 AM
Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.



So you need self-delusion to justify your life?

Self-delusion could be what separates us from all other lifeforms on
this planet,it may be why we reside at the top of the food chain.
Other creatures may be stronger, more adaptive, even have larger brains
what humans have is faith,delusional maybe...
Then again maybe not.



-----

Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka

aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)

The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -2209 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting

Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless

-----


"Now, did I want to go? Hell no."
-duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net), aka PedophilEarl J Weber, 63
year old mateless, heirless biological failure
of Afton Oaks Apartment, Baton Rouge, on why
a Neocon chickenhawk like him pussied out of
the Vietnam War.

Contact duke's priest and ask
him why duke loves to play
with little girls' nipples:

http://www.stpatrickbr.org/
Father Gerard "Jerry" Martin
Saint Patrick Catholic Church
12424 Brogdon Lane
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70816

.
User: ""

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 17 Jan 2006 07:04:45 AM
wrote:
<<it may be why we reside at the top of the food chain.>>
I dunno, cancer seems to be having a picnic these days.

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.



So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Self-delusion could be what separates us from all other lifeforms on
this planet,it may be why we reside at the top of the food chain.

Other creatures may be stronger, more adaptive, even have larger brains
what humans have is faith,delusional maybe...

Then again maybe not.




-----

Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka

aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)

The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -2209 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting

Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless

-----


"Now, did I want to go? Hell no."
-duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net), aka PedophilEarl J Weber, 63
year old mateless, heirless biological failure
of Afton Oaks Apartment, Baton Rouge, on why
a Neocon chickenhawk like him pussied out of
the Vietnam War.

Contact duke's priest and ask
him why duke loves to play
with little girls' nipples:

http://www.stpatrickbr.org/
Father Gerard "Jerry" Martin
Saint Patrick Catholic Church
12424 Brogdon Lane
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70816

.

User: ""

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 13 Jan 2006 05:07:43 AM
wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.



So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Self-delusion could be what separates us from all other lifeforms on
this planet,it may be why we reside at the top of the food chain.

Other creatures may be stronger, more adaptive, even have larger brains
what humans have is faith,delusional maybe...

Then again maybe not.

Got any evidence for your god's existence? (Don't be silly and point to
the bible, I'll just point to Bullfinch's Mythologies as evidence for
Zeus and Apollo.)





-----

Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka

aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)

The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12.5 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -2209 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting

Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless

-----


"Now, did I want to go? Hell no."
-duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net), aka PedophilEarl J Weber, 63
year old mateless, heirless biological failure
of Afton Oaks Apartment, Baton Rouge, on why
a Neocon chickenhawk like him pussied out of
the Vietnam War.

Contact duke's priest and ask
him why duke loves to play
with little girls' nipples:

http://www.stpatrickbr.org/
Father Gerard "Jerry" Martin
Saint Patrick Catholic Church
12424 Brogdon Lane
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70816

.
User: "osprey"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 13 Jan 2006 05:13:11 AM
wrote:

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.



So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Self-delusion could be what separates us from all other lifeforms on
this planet,it may be why we reside at the top of the food chain.

Other creatures may be stronger, more adaptive, even have larger brains
what humans have is faith,delusional maybe...

Then again maybe not.


Got any evidence for your god's existence? (Don't be silly and point to
the bible, I'll just point to Bullfinch's Mythologies as evidence for
Zeus and Apollo.)

While this is not "evidence", I think it's a strong indicator that
there is something else after we die. That is the Near Death
Experience.
There are FAR too many unanswered questions to just cast it aside and
think of it as nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain.
Again, before anyone jumps to conclusions, I am not suggesting that it
is evidence. I am merely saying that I believe it is a strong indicator
that there is something else after we die. What that is, I don't know.
I don't think any of us really know.
.
User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 13 Jan 2006 09:17:57 AM
In article <1137150790.945798.189910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

liberalhere@yahoo.com wrote:

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely
than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.



So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Self-delusion could be what separates us from all other lifeforms on
this planet,it may be why we reside at the top of the food chain.

Other creatures may be stronger, more adaptive, even have larger brains
what humans have is faith,delusional maybe...

Then again maybe not.


Got any evidence for your god's existence? (Don't be silly and point to
the bible, I'll just point to Bullfinch's Mythologies as evidence for
Zeus and Apollo.)


While this is not "evidence", I think it's a strong indicator that
there is something else after we die. That is the Near Death
Experience.
There are FAR too many unanswered questions to just cast it aside and
think of it as nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain.
Again, before anyone jumps to conclusions, I am not suggesting that it
is evidence. I am merely saying that I believe it is a strong indicator
that there is something else after we die. What that is, I don't know.
I don't think any of us really know.

Except that no one has ever died and "come back." Near death
experiences are dreams - nothing more.
.
User: "George"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 13 Jan 2006 10:56:10 AM
On 2006-01-13 07:17:57 -0800, "David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com> said:

In article <1137150790.945798.189910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

liberalhere@yahoo.com wrote:

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely
than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.



So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Self-delusion could be what separates us from all other lifeforms on
this planet,it may be why we reside at the top of the food chain.

Other creatures may be stronger, more adaptive, even have larger brains
what humans have is faith,delusional maybe...

Then again maybe not.


Got any evidence for your god's existence? (Don't be silly and point to
the bible, I'll just point to Bullfinch's Mythologies as evidence for
Zeus and Apollo.)


While this is not "evidence", I think it's a strong indicator that
there is something else after we die. That is the Near Death
Experience.
There are FAR too many unanswered questions to just cast it aside and
think of it as nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain.
Again, before anyone jumps to conclusions, I am not suggesting that it
is evidence. I am merely saying that I believe it is a strong indicator
that there is something else after we die. What that is, I don't know.
I don't think any of us really know.


Except that no one has ever died and "come back." Near death
experiences are dreams - nothing more.

Quite true, but the religious will believe anything.
.
User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 14 Jan 2006 10:54:18 AM
In article <2006011308561075249%ggains@waddfredu>, George
<ggains@waddfr.edu> wrote:

On 2006-01-13 07:17:57 -0800, "David W. Barnes" <dbarnes@aol.com> said:

In article <1137150790.945798.189910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

liberalhere@yahoo.com wrote:

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely
than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.



So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Self-delusion could be what separates us from all other lifeforms on
this planet,it may be why we reside at the top of the food chain.

Other creatures may be stronger, more adaptive, even have larger brains
what humans have is faith,delusional maybe...

Then again maybe not.


Got any evidence for your god's existence? (Don't be silly and point to
the bible, I'll just point to Bullfinch's Mythologies as evidence for
Zeus and Apollo.)


While this is not "evidence", I think it's a strong indicator that
there is something else after we die. That is the Near Death
Experience.
There are FAR too many unanswered questions to just cast it aside and
think of it as nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain.
Again, before anyone jumps to conclusions, I am not suggesting that it
is evidence. I am merely saying that I believe it is a strong indicator
that there is something else after we die. What that is, I don't know.
I don't think any of us really know.


Except that no one has ever died and "come back." Near death
experiences are dreams - nothing more.


Quite true, but the religious will believe anything.

Which is why they are religious.
.



User: "Mimi Cohen"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 13 Jan 2006 09:00:52 AM
osprey lied:

I
"One last note: I am very surprised at your reaction especially after
just a few short months ago I provided a copy of my DD214 Right in
box 18...1st line it says... SERVED 2 AUG 90 TO 1 OCT 94 IN SUPPORT
OF OPERATION DESERT SHIELD/STORM and in box 13 NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE
MEDAL Funny how you have selective memory, why? Yes, I served in combat
during Desert Storm."

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.abortion/msg/38f5de5691243868?dmode=source&hl=en


"Fine, if you want to play on words...no I was not in actual "combat" "

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/db12fe6b6ec66a35?dmode=source&hl=en

.

User: "Chris H. Fleming"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 13 Jan 2006 08:59:29 AM
osprey wrote:

liberalhere@yahoo.com wrote:

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.



So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Self-delusion could be what separates us from all other lifeforms on
this planet,it may be why we reside at the top of the food chain.

Other creatures may be stronger, more adaptive, even have larger brains
what humans have is faith,delusional maybe...

Then again maybe not.


Got any evidence for your god's existence? (Don't be silly and point to
the bible, I'll just point to Bullfinch's Mythologies as evidence for
Zeus and Apollo.)


While this is not "evidence", I think it's a strong indicator that
there is something else after we die. That is the Near Death
Experience.
There are FAR too many unanswered questions to just cast it aside and
think of it as nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain.
Again, before anyone jumps to conclusions, I am not suggesting that it
is evidence. I am merely saying that I believe it is a strong indicator
that there is something else after we die. What that is, I don't know.
I don't think any of us really know.

You can replicate a NDE. Pilots do it all the time when they pass out
from high acceleration. They usually wake up with a smile on their face
from the euphoria.
Also the tunnel of light has a scientific explaination.
As for OOB experiences. No person claiming to have OOB experiences has
ever been able to float into another room to read a secret message in a
controlled, scientific experiment. Obviously though, this cannot be
tested on dying peoples. I would assume they were just dreaming.
.
User: "osprey"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 13 Jan 2006 01:35:45 PM
"Chris H. Fleming" <chris_h_fleming@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137164369.156244.33090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

osprey wrote:

liberalhere@yahoo.com wrote:

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal
"Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more
likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we
all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.



So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Self-delusion could be what separates us from all other lifeforms on
this planet,it may be why we reside at the top of the food chain.

Other creatures may be stronger, more adaptive, even have larger
brains
what humans have is faith,delusional maybe...

Then again maybe not.


Got any evidence for your god's existence? (Don't be silly and point to
the bible, I'll just point to Bullfinch's Mythologies as evidence for
Zeus and Apollo.)


While this is not "evidence", I think it's a strong indicator that
there is something else after we die. That is the Near Death
Experience.
There are FAR too many unanswered questions to just cast it aside and
think of it as nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain.
Again, before anyone jumps to conclusions, I am not suggesting that it
is evidence. I am merely saying that I believe it is a strong indicator
that there is something else after we die. What that is, I don't know.
I don't think any of us really know.



You can replicate a NDE.

You can replicate only one part of NDE, not all of it entirely.
Pilots do it all the time when they pass out

from high acceleration. They usually wake up with a smile on their face
from the euphoria.

Also the tunnel of light has a scientific explaination.

As for OOB experiences. No person claiming to have OOB experiences has
ever been able to float into another room to read a secret message in a
controlled, scientific experiment. Obviously though, this cannot be
tested on dying peoples. I would assume they were just dreaming.

Explain this.
Of every NDE case in which the person reports seeing people on the other
side, they always report seeing people that they knew in life that had
already passed on. If this was an "illusion", why don't they report seeing
people still living?
.
User: "james g. keegan jr."

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 14 Jan 2006 10:07:02 AM
In article <95udnbfIUMNtnVXenZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

Explain this.

Of every NDE case in which the person reports seeing people on the other
side, they always report seeing people that they knew in life that had
already passed on. If this was an "illusion", why don't they report seeing
people still living?

explain this:
why did you post the following lie?
"To anyone reading my words let it be known that Mimi Cohen is aka:
Krisblake, Pauline, Gia, Somewriter, and several other nicks."
--"osprey" <noneedtok...@mail.com>
news:1130988022.230071.12110@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
.

User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 14 Jan 2006 10:54:18 AM
In article <95udnbfIUMNtnVXenZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@comcast.com>, osprey
<noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

"Chris H. Fleming" <chris_h_fleming@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137164369.156244.33090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

osprey wrote:

liberalhere@yahoo.com wrote:

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

On 12 Jan 2006 00:35:53 -0800,

wrote:

Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's Cocaine Snorting ***** wrote:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm

Web Posted: July 25, 1998
study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal
"Nature"
reveals that members of the scientific community are "more
likely than
ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily
Telegraph.


Thats really a shame, all you are left with is life which as we
all
know is simply a sexually transmited terminal disease.

What a waste of post graduate education.



So you need self-delusion to justify your life?


Self-delusion could be what separates us from all other lifeforms on
this planet,it may be why we reside at the top of the food chain.

Other creatures may be stronger, more adaptive, even have larger
brains
what humans have is faith,delusional maybe...

Then again maybe not.


Got any evidence for your god's existence? (Don't be silly and point to
the bible, I'll just point to Bullfinch's Mythologies as evidence for
Zeus and Apollo.)


While this is not "evidence", I think it's a strong indicator that
there is something else after we die. That is the Near Death
Experience.
There are FAR too many unanswered questions to just cast it aside and
think of it as nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain.
Again, before anyone jumps to conclusions, I am not suggesting that it
is evidence. I am merely saying that I believe it is a strong indicator
that there is something else after we die. What that is, I don't know.
I don't think any of us really know.



You can replicate a NDE.


You can replicate only one part of NDE, not all of it entirely.


Pilots do it all the time when they pass out

from high acceleration. They usually wake up with a smile on their face
from the euphoria.

Also the tunnel of light has a scientific explaination.

As for OOB experiences. No person claiming to have OOB experiences has
ever been able to float into another room to read a secret message in a
controlled, scientific experiment. Obviously though, this cannot be
tested on dying peoples. I would assume they were just dreaming.



Explain this.

Of every NDE case in which the person reports seeing people on the other
side, they always report seeing people that they knew in life that had
already passed on. If this was an "illusion", why don't they report seeing
people still living?

Because they expect to see the dead. How tough is that?
.
User: "Bill Bonde Soli Deo Gloria"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 14 Jan 2006 04:29:51 PM
"David W. Barnes" wrote:


Of every NDE case in which the person reports seeing people on the other
side, they always report seeing people that they knew in life that had
already passed on. If this was an "illusion", why don't they report seeing
people still living?


Because they expect to see the dead. How tough is that?

That's not a theory though, that's just some supposition. Are you saying
that everyone who has a near death experience involving seeing people,
and then comes back and reports it, has in fact only claimed to see
those who have already died? And of all those people, how many have
really thought ahead of time about how they might see a tunnel and a
light and the people would only be already dead people? Or are their
brains making this all up in a way that is logical --after all how could
you talk to people beyond the grave who were not already beyond the
grave?-- while in the process of the rather traumatic experience of
dying? Wouldn't you be more likely to reach for more current memories at
this point than the image of someone long deceased that you can't hardly
remember the face of while you are alive and healthy and under no
pressure at all?
--
"He named his second child Jim after the horse that had brought him to
Washington. He caught his son one day writing 'James' on his lessons,
and he told the boy without raising his voice that if he had wanted to
name him 'James', that is what he would have done." -+Edward P. Jones,
"The Known World"
.
User: "osprey"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 14 Jan 2006 05:07:15 PM
"Bill Bonde ('Soli Deo Gloria')" <Pablo.Neruda@Il.Postino.it> wrote in
message news:43C97BC9.DB45265A@Il.Postino.it...



"David W. Barnes" wrote:




Of every NDE case in which the person reports seeing people on the
other
side, they always report seeing people that they knew in life that had
already passed on. If this was an "illusion", why don't they report
seeing
people still living?


Because they expect to see the dead. How tough is that?

That's not a theory though, that's just some supposition. Are you saying
that everyone who has a near death experience involving seeing people,
and then comes back and reports it, has in fact only claimed to see
those who have already died? And of all those people, how many have
really thought ahead of time about how they might see a tunnel and a
light and the people would only be already dead people? Or are their
brains making this all up in a way that is logical --after all how could
you talk to people beyond the grave who were not already beyond the
grave?-- while in the process of the rather traumatic experience of
dying? Wouldn't you be more likely to reach for more current memories at
this point than the image of someone long deceased that you can't hardly
remember the face of while you are alive and healthy and under no
pressure at all?

You would think that the last memory a person would be having is of the ones
closest to them, such as a wife or husband, and children. Not people who
passed on a long time ago.
This is why NDE can't be thrown off as some chemical reaction or lack of
oxygen, there are too many unanswered questions.
Such as those who were clinically brain dead and reported NDE. You can't
throw that off as lack of oxygen.
These guys are not interested in research, they just throw out answers..that
are not answers at all.
.
User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 14 Jan 2006 06:45:08 PM
In article <abudnc_XGphqHlTeRVn-rA@comcast.com>, osprey
<noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

"Bill Bonde ('Soli Deo Gloria')" <Pablo.Neruda@Il.Postino.it> wrote in
message news:43C97BC9.DB45265A@Il.Postino.it...



"David W. Barnes" wrote:




Of every NDE case in which the person reports seeing people on the
other
side, they always report seeing people that they knew in life that had
already passed on. If this was an "illusion", why don't they report
seeing
people still living?


Because they expect to see the dead. How tough is that?

That's not a theory though, that's just some supposition. Are you saying
that everyone who has a near death experience involving seeing people,
and then comes back and reports it, has in fact only claimed to see
those who have already died? And of all those people, how many have
really thought ahead of time about how they might see a tunnel and a
light and the people would only be already dead people? Or are their
brains making this all up in a way that is logical --after all how could
you talk to people beyond the grave who were not already beyond the
grave?-- while in the process of the rather traumatic experience of
dying? Wouldn't you be more likely to reach for more current memories at
this point than the image of someone long deceased that you can't hardly
remember the face of while you are alive and healthy and under no
pressure at all?


You would think that the last memory a person would be having is of the ones
closest to them, such as a wife or husband, and children. Not people who
passed on a long time ago.

Except what "you would think" isn't reality. People try to "logic"
their way through these things. It is like when people say, "There
must be life after death. Otherwise, what is the point?" The fact
that people are uncomfortable with "There is no point." does not mean
there is one.

This is why NDE can't be thrown off as some chemical reaction or lack of
oxygen, there are too many unanswered questions.

This is typical religious mumbo jumbo. There aren't that many
"unanswered questions," but even if there were, they doesn't support
the idea of life after death. It is like saying, "We can't explain
XYZ, so there must be a God." No - that just means we can't explain
XYZ.

Such as those who were clinically brain dead and reported NDE. You can't
throw that off as lack of oxygen.

Scientists say otherwise.

These guys are not interested in research, they just throw out answers..that
are not answers at all.

Whatever that means.
.

User: "Mimi Cohen"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 14 Jan 2006 07:05:33 PM
osprey lied:

This
"One last note: I am very surprised at your reaction especially after
just a few short months ago I provided a copy of my DD214 Right in
box 18...1st line it says... SERVED 2 AUG 90 TO 1 OCT 94 IN SUPPORT
OF OPERATION DESERT SHIELD/STORM and in box 13 NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE
MEDAL Funny how you have selective memory, why? Yes, I served in combat
during Desert Storm."

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.abortion/msg/38f5de5691243868?dmode=source&hl=en


"Fine, if you want to play on words...no I was not in actual "combat" "

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/db12fe6b6ec66a35?dmode=source&hl=en

.


User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 14 Jan 2006 06:45:07 PM
In article <43C97BC9.DB45265A@Il.Postino.it>, 'Soli Deo Gloria'
<Pablo.Neruda@Il.Postino.it> wrote:

"David W. Barnes" wrote:




Of every NDE case in which the person reports seeing people on the other
side, they always report seeing people that they knew in life that had
already passed on. If this was an "illusion", why don't they report
seeing
people still living?


Because they expect to see the dead. How tough is that?

That's not a theory though, that's just some supposition.

As is yours.

Are you saying
that everyone who has a near death experience involving seeing people,
and then comes back and reports it, has in fact only claimed to see
those who have already died?

Absolutely. The first thing you need to remember is, they were never
dead. If you "come back" you were not dead. I don't believe there has
ever been a case where someone was "clinically dead" where they "came
back." Yes- hearts stop. Breathing stops. But the brain continues.
As such, it can dream, hallucinate, etc.
When someone "dies," as you are calling it, their brain is deprived of
oxygen and nutrients. This can cause the brain to hallucinate. It is
only natural to "see," in your brain, what you expect to see.
Including the dead. It is part of the whole religious inculcation.

And of all those people, how many have
really thought ahead of time about how they might see a tunnel and a
light and the people would only be already dead people?

Except that most don't see the tunnel. Some do - they expect it, or
the chemical reactions cause it.

Or are their
brains making this all up in a way that is logical --after all how could
you talk to people beyond the grave who were not already beyond the
grave?-- while in the process of the rather traumatic experience of
dying?

The idea that these "people" are "beyond the grave" has never been
established, and there is no evidence whatsoever that they are there.
The most obvious explanation is the starving brain imagines it.

Wouldn't you be more likely to reach for more current memories at
this point than the image of someone long deceased that you can't hardly
remember the face of while you are alive and healthy and under no
pressure at all?

Not at all. I have dreams when I sleep. I am often amazed at how I
dream of things that happened long ago. Childhood memories, etc. The
human brain has all kinds of things going on in it. I suspect, we all
remember everything we have ever experienced, to one degree or another.
It just takes a trigger to set it free. Sometimes it is a comment from
someone, sometimes a smell, a visual image, etc.
.
User: "Bill Bonde Soli Deo Gloria"

Title: Re: Study: Really Smart People Reject Christianity (The Journal Nature) 14 Jan 2006 08:18:42 PM
"David W. Barnes" wrote:


In article <43C97BC9.DB45265A@Il.Postino.it>, 'Soli Deo Gloria'
<Pablo.Neruda@Il.Postino.it> wrote:

"David W. Barnes" wrote:




Of every NDE case in which the person reports seeing people on the other
side, they always report seeing people that they knew in life that had
already passed on. If this was an "illusion", why don't they report
seeing
people still living?


Because they expect to see the dead. How tough is that?

That's not a theory though, that's just some supposition.


As is yours.

Really? What did I claim?

Are you saying
that everyone who has a near death experience involving seeing people,
and then comes back and reports it, has in fact only claimed to see
those who have already died?


Absolutely. The first thing you need to remember is, they were never
dead. If you "come back" you were not dead.

But what does "dead" mean? If there is an after life, how do you know
that the process of going there doesn't occur while it is still possible
sometimes to bring the body and then your "spirit" back?

I don't believe there has
ever been a case where someone was "clinically dead" where they "came
back." Yes- hearts stop. Breathing stops. But the brain continues.
As such, it can dream, hallucinate, etc.

How would you come bac