| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Bill Case" |
| Date: |
10 Aug 2004 10:38:41 AM |
| Object: |
Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
From an article on the CBS news site called "Can Voters See Through Sham
Ads?"
"The group has been heavily funded by Houston conservative Bob Perry, who
has given over $5 million to Republicans in the past few years. Along
with the ad, there is a book "Unfit for Command" which is being published
by right-wing Regnery Press and being publicized by the conservative
magazine Human Events, which shares office space with Regnery. The PR
firm handling the projects is Creative Response Concepts run by former
Pat Buchanan communications director Greg Mueller with the help of former
Pat Robertson communications director, Mike Russell.
The co-author of the book is John O'Neill who has been debating John
Kerry since the 1970s. In fact, it was the Nixon White House, not the
Bush one, which was obsessed with Kerry's Vietnam service and anti-war
history. Nixon himself spent an hour with O'Neill before he debated Kerry
on the ***** Cavitt Show in 1971 and the current Swift Boat Vets saga has
a rather Nixonian cast. Former Nixon aide Pat Buchanan has been out
defending the project and pushing the book."
from
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/comment/story/0,14259,1278021,0
0.html
RE the Swiftboat group:
"The group was set up with the help of Merrie Spaeth, the widow of Tex
Lezar, who was Republican candidate for lieutenant governor of Texas in
the same year that Mr Bush ran for governor. He was a partner of Mr
O'Neill's at their Houston law firm.
Regnery, meanwhile, proclaims itself to be the leading conservative
publisher in the US. Acquired by Republican donor Thomas Philips in 1993,
it is a subsidiary of Eagle Publishing, which is using its flagship Human
Events magazine to promote Unfit for Command and build up its
subscription base and mailing lists.
Regnery publishes on any number of topics (from threats to marriage to a
defence of assault rifles), but scored a number of hits in the Clinton
years with titles such as the conservative columnist Ann Coulter's High
Crimes and Misdemeanors: the case against Bill Clinton.
The most notorious - Gary Aldrich's Unlimited Access: an FBI agent inside
the Clinton White House - depicted the executive mansion as a den of
debauchery, drug-taking and gay sex. One section claimed the president
was smuggled out under a rug for trysts with a female celebrity in a
nearby hotel. Mr Aldrich admitted in the book that many of his
allegations were, at best, second-hand.
On top of this, the O'Neill/Regnery axis has links going back to Richard
Nixon. Also a swift boat commander in Vietnam, Mr O'Neill was hired by
presidential aide Charles Colson in 1971 to discredit the recently
returned Mr Kerry's campaign against the war. Mr Kerry reputedly beat him
in a nationally televised debate on the ***** Cavett Show.
Sidney Blumenthal, a Guardian columnist and former adviser to Mr Clinton,
said he saw nothing new in Mr O'Neill's book and the campaign mounted by
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. "It reeks of partisan dirty tricks, and
the facts simply don't hold up at all. The intent is simply to dirty
Kerry," he said. "They have been trying to do this for a long time.
Regardless of whether it is false, they will put it out to see if it will
hurt."
The truth of the allegations is disputed by the Kerry campaign, and
contradicts the most authoritative account of his time in Vietnam,
Douglas Brinkley's Tour of Duty. The author is director of the Eisenhower
Centre for American Studies at New Orleans university, which specialises
in military history.
But the truth does not matter - to confuse the issue of Mr Kerry's
military service, which he has made such a strong part of his campaign,
is enough to occupy the candidate, distract him and muddy his record.
It is not the first time dirty tricks have surfaced in the 2004 campaign.
The Drudge Report (which has served as a conduit for the allegations over
Mr Kerry's Vietnam service, including allegations that he slaughtered
livestock and burned down a village with a Zippo lighter) ran reports in
February that the Massachusetts senator had an affair with an intern.
There was no truth in it.
Later, a photograph emerged of Mr Kerry at a rally with Jane Fonda, the
actress who visited Hanoi during the war and, to some, will forever be
known as Hanoi Jane. It was proven to be a fake.
"In all this campaign, attacking Kerry on his Vietnam heroism has always
backfired," Mr Blumenthal commented.
"It is particularly ironic and dangerous, given the fact that Bush is
withholding national service records that that show he did not show up
for duty in the Alabama national guard, and that he has still not come
clean about why he was suspended from flying in the Texas air national
guard after refusing to take a physical."
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for drink-driving a few
days before the last presidential election was blamed in some quarters
for the closeness of the result and his failure to win the popular vote.
Around the time of the Kerry intern allegations, the Republican national
committee chairman, Ed Gillespie, expressed outrage that the musician
Moby, a Kerry supporter, had told the New York Daily News it would be
possible to spread anti-Bush gossip on the internet to bring down his
support among, for example, anti-abortionists.
He then turned it into a pre-emptive rebuttal of a rumour that did not
even exist, opening up the interesting question of whether allegations of
dirty tricks constituted a form of dirty campaigning.
"We know now that, some time this fall, Kerry campaign operatives intend
to go into pro-life chatrooms on the internet to spread a scurrilous
story that President Bush drove a former girlfriend to an abortion clinic
and paid for her abortion," Mr Gillespie told the Washington Times.
Dirty campaigning is nothing new in US politics: in 1800, Thomas
Jefferson was accused of favouring the teaching of "murder, robbery,
rape, adultery and incest".
One of Mr Nixon's operatives, Donald Segretti, was imprisoned for illegal
campaign material, including faked letters alleging that a senator had
fathered an illegitimate child with a 17-year-old.
The 2004 race for the White House is close, and we should not be
surprised to see more dirty campaigning between now and November."
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 01:34:50 AM |
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In our last thrilling episode, Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net>
was pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Fri, 13 Aug 2004 03:34:46
GMT by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
And now we're done, Little Liar.
<plonk>
Surrender noted.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
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| User: "Igtheist" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 12:00:44 PM |
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Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<j8ooh0taabi0fg1f0nksvhij0hnv6h32qg@4ax.com>...
In our last thrilling episode, Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net>
was pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Fri, 13 Aug 2004 03:34:46
GMT by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
And now we're done, Little Liar.
<plonk>
Surrender noted.
What about his example of a lie:
"Despite repeated warnings from the CIA and the Defense Intelligence
Agency, President Bush and his administration hyped and distorted the
threat that Iraq posed."
What factual proof of this is there besides the lies by Joe Wilson?
.
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| User: "Fred J. McCall" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 01:44:17 PM |
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(Igtheist) wrote:
:Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<j8ooh0taabi0fg1f0nksvhij0hnv6h32qg@4ax.com>...
:> In our last thrilling episode, Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net>
:> was pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Fri, 13 Aug 2004 03:34:46
:> GMT by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
:>
:> >And now we're done, Little Liar.
:> >
:> ><plonk>
:>
:> Surrender noted.
:
:What about his example of a lie:
:"Despite repeated warnings from the CIA and the Defense Intelligence
:Agency, President Bush and his administration hyped and distorted the
:threat that Iraq posed."
:
:What factual proof of this is there besides the lies by Joe Wilson?
See why the "bring me some examples" ploy is pointless to respond to
in the case of Fringist Fools? I knew it when I did it, of course.
It's why I binned him at the same time.
I'm not interested in the expected diatribes about how anything bad
about anyone the Fringer Fool doesn't like can't possibly be a lie and
the ensuing discussion of the whichness of the why that always occurs
in such cases.
--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 02:14:32 PM |
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"Fred J. McCall" <fmccall@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:hm2qh0lk76456prqfflflb2kvnne9v9q92@4ax.com...
igtheist_N_O_S_P_A_M@hotmail.com (Igtheist) wrote:
:Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:<j8ooh0taabi0fg1f0nksvhij0hnv6h32qg@4ax.com>...
:> In our last thrilling episode, Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net>
:> was pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Fri, 13 Aug 2004 03:34:46
:> GMT by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
:>
:> >And now we're done, Little Liar.
:> >
:> ><plonk>
:>
:> Surrender noted.
:
:What about his example of a lie:
:"Despite repeated warnings from the CIA and the Defense Intelligence
:Agency, President Bush and his administration hyped and distorted the
:threat that Iraq posed."
:
:What factual proof of this is there besides the lies by Joe Wilson?
See why the "bring me some examples" ploy is pointless to respond to
in the case of Fringist Fools? I knew it when I did it, of course.
It's why I binned him at the same time.
I'm not interested in the expected diatribes about how anything bad
about anyone the Fringer Fool doesn't like can't possibly be a lie and
the ensuing discussion of the whichness of the why that always occurs
in such cases.
ROOOOOOOKK BUK BUK BUK
ROOOOOOOKK BUK BUK BUK
.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 09:11:26 AM |
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On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:29:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall
<fmccall@earthlink.net> wrote:
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
:In our last thrilling episode, Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net>
:was pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:59:51
:GMT by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
:>cobalt@newscene.com (Kate ) wrote:
:>
:>:Not to mention Move On doesn't sponsor lies and slander like Perry has
:>:repeatedly.
:>
:>That's really quite funny! Do tell another one!
:
:OK, list the lies.
Sorry, but I have better things to do than rehash propaganda from a
source that everyone knows is a funded political spin house.
Crickets chirping.
LOL
.
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| User: "Fred J. McCall" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 10:17:36 PM |
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(Kate ) wrote:
:On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:29:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall
:<fmccall@earthlink.net> wrote:
:
:>Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
:>
:>:In our last thrilling episode, Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net>
:>:was pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:59:51
:>:GMT by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
:>:> (Kate ) wrote:
:>:>
:>:>:Not to mention Move On doesn't sponsor lies and slander like Perry has
:>:>:repeatedly.
:>:>
:>:>That's really quite funny! Do tell another one!
:>:
:>:OK, list the lies.
:>
:>Sorry, but I have better things to do than rehash propaganda from a
:>source that everyone knows is a funded political spin house.
:
:Crickets chirping.
Well, you would probably know, since I doubt anything above a cricket
intellectually would bother with you....
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 01:06:13 PM |
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On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:05:48 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
In our last thrilling episode, Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net>
was pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:59:51
GMT by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
cobalt@newscene.com (Kate ) wrote:
:Not to mention Move On doesn't sponsor lies and slander like Perry has
:repeatedly.
That's really quite funny! Do tell another one!
OK, list the lies.
As usual, the conservative idiot slinks away into the night as the
crickets chirp....
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 01:32:36 PM |
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"Kate " <cobalt@newscene.com> wrote in message
news:41585f41.618271921@news-west.newscene.com...
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:05:48 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
In our last thrilling episode, Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net>
was pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:59:51
GMT by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
cobalt@newscene.com (Kate ) wrote:
:Not to mention Move On doesn't sponsor lies and slander like Perry has
:repeatedly.
That's really quite funny! Do tell another one!
OK, list the lies.
As usual, the conservative idiot slinks away into the night as the
crickets chirp....
SOP (standard operating procedure) for Bushies. They emulate their leader /
hero.
.
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| User: "Bill Levinson" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 03:55:27 PM |
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Kate wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:05:48 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
In our last thrilling episode, Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net>
was pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:59:51
GMT by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
cobalt@newscene.com (Kate ) wrote:
:Not to mention Move On doesn't sponsor lies and slander like Perry has
:repeatedly.
That's really quite funny! Do tell another one!
OK, list the lies.
As usual, the conservative idiot slinks away into the night as the
crickets chirp....
MoveOn.org = the DNC's Ministry of Truth (see Orwell's "1984")
--Bill
http://www.stentorian.com/politics/kerry/ Dossier on John Kerry, his war
crimes, and his association with proven racists, bigots, and
anti-Semites plus Michael Moore and George Soros. Downloadable
royalty-free leaflets
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 06:06:07 PM |
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"Bill Levinson" <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote
MoveOn.org = the DNC's Ministry of Truth (see Orwell's "1984")
The request was for examples, not a repeat of the same
worthless claim.
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 06:12:05 PM |
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"Bill Levinson" <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote in message
news:3JvSc.12677$nx2.10618@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Kate wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:05:48 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
In our last thrilling episode, Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net>
was pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:59:51
GMT by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
cobalt@newscene.com (Kate ) wrote:
:Not to mention Move On doesn't sponsor lies and slander like Perry has
:repeatedly.
That's really quite funny! Do tell another one!
OK, list the lies.
As usual, the conservative idiot slinks away into the night as the
crickets chirp....
MoveOn.org = the DNC's Ministry of Truth (see Orwell's "1984")
Folks can see for themselves at: http://www.moveon.org/front/
It doesn't look very Orwellian to me, more like they're criticising
something that's Orwellian.
Here's a funny quote from the site:
The commies had Pravda, the Republicans have FOX.
--Bill
http://www.stentorian.com/politics/kerry/ Dossier on John Kerry, his war
crimes, and his association with proven racists, bigots, and
anti-Semites plus Michael Moore and George Soros. Downloadable
royalty-free leaflets
.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 07:30:13 PM |
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On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:55:27 GMT, Bill Levinson
<wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote:
Kate wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:05:48 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
In our last thrilling episode, Fred J. McCall <fmccall@earthlink.net>
was pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:59:51
GMT by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
cobalt@newscene.com (Kate ) wrote:
:Not to mention Move On doesn't sponsor lies and slander like Perry has
:repeatedly.
That's really quite funny! Do tell another one!
OK, list the lies.
As usual, the conservative idiot slinks away into the night as the
crickets chirp....
MoveOn.org = the DNC's Ministry of Truth (see Orwell's "1984")
So you couldn't find one lie, eh?
.
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| User: "Bill Levinson" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
16 Aug 2004 04:34:45 PM |
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Kate wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:55:27 GMT, Bill Levinson
<wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote:
MoveOn.org = the DNC's Ministry of Truth (see Orwell's "1984")
So you couldn't find one lie, eh?
It is harder to find one fact there.
--Bill
http://www.stentorian.com/politics/kerry/ Dossier on John Kerry, his war
crimes, and his association with proven racists, bigots, and
anti-Semites plus Michael Moore and George Soros. Downloadable
royalty-free leaflets
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
16 Aug 2004 05:02:13 PM |
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"Bill Levinson" <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote
Kate wrote:
So you couldn't find one lie, eh?
It is harder to find one fact there.
So you're claiming it's much easier to find a lie, yet you've
failed miserably.
Are you falling back on the often-used Republican "Retard"
defense?
"It's easy to find lies! I'm just such a frigging retard that I can't!"
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
16 Aug 2004 05:27:57 PM |
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"Bill Levinson" <wlevinson@NOSPAM.stentorian.com> wrote in message
news:VL9Uc.23990$nx2.4221@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
So you couldn't find one lie, eh?
It is harder to find one fact there.
Oh, well here sport, I'll help you out. MoveOn has a daily email about Bush
lies. You can sign up to get these at: http://www.misleader.org/rss/
Here's a sample:
Bush Misleads on Distribution of Tax Cuts
As a presidential candidate in 2000, George W. Bush pledged his tax cut
proposals "are especially focused on low and moderate income families."1
Those proposals became law - but a new study by the non-partisan
Congressional Budget office reveals that Bush mislead America about their
distribution.2
According to the CBO study, the wealthiest 1 percent of all taxpayers -
whose earnings average $1.2 million - are receiving an average tax cut of
$78,420 this year.3 Meanwhile, the middle 20 percent of taxpayers - whose
earnings average $51,000 - are getting only a $1,090 cut.4 Those in the
bottom 20% - averaging earnings of $16,620 - get just a $250 cut.5 The
result: "President Bush's tax cuts have shifted federal tax payments from
the richest Americans to a wide swath of middle-class families."6
Sources:
"A Tax Cut with a Purpose," GeorgeWBush.com, archived from 11/2000.
"Effective Federal Tax Rates Under Current Law, 2001 to 2014," Congressional
Budget Office, 08/2004.
"Report Finds Tax Cuts Heavily Favor the Wealthy," New York Times, 08/13/04.
Ibid.
Ibid.
"Tax Burden Shifts to the Middle," Washington Post, 08/13/04.
.
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| User: "John Cartmell" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 11:36:50 AM |
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In article <5_5Sc.16257$9Y6.11005@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for drink-driving a few
days before the last presidential election was blamed in some quarters
for the closeness of the result and his failure to win the popular vote.
Were the documents true?
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527
Qercus magazine & FD Games www.finnybank.com www.acornuser.com
Qercus - a fusion of Acorn Publisher & Acorn User magazines
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 12:30:11 PM |
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"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdc5aecffjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk...
In article <5_5Sc.16257$9Y6.11005@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for drink-driving a
few
days before the last presidential election was blamed in some quarters
for the closeness of the result and his failure to win the popular vote.
Were the documents true?
Apparently yes.
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527
Qercus magazine & FD Games www.finnybank.com www.acornuser.com
Qercus - a fusion of Acorn Publisher & Acorn User magazines
.
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| User: "John Cartmell" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 03:29:12 PM |
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In article <DC7Sc.16373$9Y6.15467@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Bill
Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdc5aecffjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk...
In article <5_5Sc.16257$9Y6.11005@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for drink-driving
a few days before the last presidential election was blamed in some
quarters for the closeness of the result and his failure to win the
popular vote.
Were the documents true?
Apparently yes.
So not to be compared with lies dredged up by the other side?
There are degrees of dirty tricks:
Telling the truth about someone that they'd rather was kept quiet;
Dragging up old such truths;
Repeating lies;
Generating your own lies.
No one of honour would want to partake in any of the above - but by my
reckoning no one of honour would now touch the US Presidency with a
bargepole as that seems to be the only way to succeed. ;-(
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527
Qercus magazine & FD Games www.finnybank.com www.acornuser.com
Qercus - a fusion of Acorn Publisher & Acorn User magazines
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 12:54:16 PM |
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"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdc7032f2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk...
In article <DC7Sc.16373$9Y6.15467@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Bill
Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdc5aecffjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk...
In article <5_5Sc.16257$9Y6.11005@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for drink-driving
a few days before the last presidential election was blamed in some
quarters for the closeness of the result and his failure to win the
popular vote.
Were the documents true?
Apparently yes.
So not to be compared with lies dredged up by the other side?
If an allegation is true, then no it's not the same as an allegation that is
untrue.
Another, thing Bush / Rove have a long history of smearing people. People
are going to fight back, this stuff doesn't just go one way once it starts.
The smears they put on John McCain about his war service are really
disturbing in terms of the implications of Bush's character.
.
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| User: "John Tibbs" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 05:03:56 PM |
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"Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cf7Tc.21124$cK.8330@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdc7032f2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk...
In article <DC7Sc.16373$9Y6.15467@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill
Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdc5aecffjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk...
In article <5_5Sc.16257$9Y6.11005@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for
drink-driving
a few days before the last presidential election was blamed in
some
quarters for the closeness of the result and his failure to win
the
popular vote.
Were the documents true?
Apparently yes.
So not to be compared with lies dredged up by the other side?
If an allegation is true, then no it's not the same as an allegation that
is
untrue.
Another, thing Bush / Rove have a long history of smearing people. People
are going to fight back, this stuff doesn't just go one way once it
starts.
Yeah, right! Like Juanita Broadderick, Paula Jones, Jennifer Flowers, Linda
Tripp, etc.
That was really Bush/Rove and the republicans who used those tactics!
The smears they put on John McCain about his war service are really
disturbing in terms of the implications of Bush's character.
No one on either side used John McCains war records or actions in any kind
of smear!
That's a totally made-up LIE!
jt
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 05:19:34 PM |
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"John Tibbs" <jwtibbs@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:gVaTc.15612$nx2.12891@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cf7Tc.21124$cK.8330@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdc7032f2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk...
In article <DC7Sc.16373$9Y6.15467@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill
Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdc5aecffjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk...
In article
<5_5Sc.16257$9Y6.11005@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks.
The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for
drink-driving
a few days before the last presidential election was blamed in
some
quarters for the closeness of the result and his failure to win
the
popular vote.
Were the documents true?
Apparently yes.
So not to be compared with lies dredged up by the other side?
If an allegation is true, then no it's not the same as an allegation
that
is
untrue.
Another, thing Bush / Rove have a long history of smearing people.
People
are going to fight back, this stuff doesn't just go one way once it
starts.
Yeah, right! Like Juanita Broadderick, Paula Jones, Jennifer Flowers,
Linda
Tripp, etc.
That was really Bush/Rove and the republicans who used those tactics!
The smears they put on John McCain about his war service are really
disturbing in terms of the implications of Bush's character.
No one on either side used John McCains war records or actions in any kind
of smear!
That's a totally made-up LIE!
Anyone can do a Google web search on "McCain Bush Rove smear" and get plenty
of returns that will show this fool Tibbs is a liar.
.
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| User: "Igtheist" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 12:28:54 PM |
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John Cartmell <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<4cdc7032f2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk>...
In article <DC7Sc.16373$9Y6.15467@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Bill
Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdc5aecffjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk...
In article <5_5Sc.16257$9Y6.11005@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for drink-driving
a few days before the last presidential election was blamed in some
quarters for the closeness of the result and his failure to win the
popular vote.
Were the documents true?
Apparently yes.
So not to be compared with lies dredged up by the other side?
Apparently what the SBVFT not lies. That is the point in question.
You can't assume they are lies in order to justify your argument.
The fact that a Republican funded the quite expensive costs of
producing and running these ads has no bearing on their truth or
falsehood.
They brought these issues up after Kerry ran on his war record. They
are just bringing out the truth about that war record. Thus this
doesn't even count as a dirty trick.
SBVFT: Kerry lied about these specific issues.
Democrat: SBVFT is funded by a republican therefore it is a lie.
Rational person: Does this mean anything funded by a Democrat is a lie
also.
Democrat: No, only republicans do that. My evidence being that SBVFT
are liars and a republican funded them.
So SBVFT are liars because republicans funded them and republicans
fund liars as evidenced by SBVFT.
I'm really starting to get fed up with the left for their double
standards and illogic.
Kerry has already had to retract two of his lies due to SBVFT. 1)
That he was in Cambodia on Christmas 1968 (or anytime for that matter)
while the president lied about his being there. 2) That he was an
active officer in the reserves during the time he was war protesting
and consorting with the enemy.
What specific lie do you think SBVFT has said?
They did serve with Kerry and were present at many of the episodes
where he "earned" his medals. The boats worked in teams and were not
that big. All three of Kerrys purple hearts were for injuries that
were less serious than a skinned knee, two know to be self inflicted
when there was no enemy fire. The third story is more complex but
also appears to be in a non-combat situation. The silver and bronze
stars also appear to have been earned by tricking his commanders.
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| User: "Holden" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 02:12:59 PM |
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John Cartmell wrote:
In article <5_5Sc.16257$9Y6.11005@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for drink-driving
a few days before the last presidential election was blamed in some
quarters for the closeness of the result and his failure to win the
popular vote.
Were the documents true?
"This is the 1976 Maine police document recording the arrest of George W.
Bush for driving under the influence of alcohol. Bush, who was 30 at the
time, was popped over the Labor Day weekend near his family's Kennebunkport
summer home. Bush pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor DUI charge, paid a $150
fine, and had his driving privileges briefly revoked in the state of Maine.
The arrest record card was released November 2 by Kennebunkport police."
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html
.
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| User: "Brian Westley" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 04:24:13 PM |
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"Holden" <nothx@ihatespam.com> writes:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article <5_5Sc.16257$9Y6.11005@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for drink-driving
a few days before the last presidential election was blamed in some
quarters for the closeness of the result and his failure to win the
popular vote.
Were the documents true?
"This is the 1976 Maine police document recording the arrest of George W.
Bush for driving under the influence of alcohol. Bush, who was 30 at the
time, was popped over the Labor Day weekend near his family's Kennebunkport
summer home. Bush pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor DUI charge, paid a $150
fine, and had his driving privileges briefly revoked in the state of Maine.
The arrest record card was released November 2 by Kennebunkport police."
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html
Also,
"Just after the governor's reelection in 1998, [Dallas Morning News
reporter Wayne] Slater pressed Bush about whether he had ever been
arrested. 'He said, 'After 1968? No.'" Dallas Morning News, 11/03/2000
[Before 1968, Bush was arrested for theft and vandalism in college.]
A presidential candidate lying about his own arrest record
should always be pointed out.
http://firesigntheater.com/bergman/dui2.html
---
Merlyn LeRoy
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| User: "Bill Case" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 04:37:35 PM |
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"Brian Westley" <westley@visi.com> wrote in message
news:41193cfd$0$65609$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com...
"Holden" <nothx@ihatespam.com> writes:
John Cartmell wrote:
In article <5_5Sc.16257$9Y6.11005@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Bill Case <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for drink-driving
a few days before the last presidential election was blamed in some
quarters for the closeness of the result and his failure to win the
popular vote.
Were the documents true?
"This is the 1976 Maine police document recording the arrest of George W.
Bush for driving under the influence of alcohol. Bush, who was 30 at the
time, was popped over the Labor Day weekend near his family's
Kennebunkport
summer home. Bush pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor DUI charge, paid a
$150
fine, and had his driving privileges briefly revoked in the state of
Maine.
The arrest record card was released November 2 by Kennebunkport police."
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html
Also,
"Just after the governor's reelection in 1998, [Dallas Morning News
reporter Wayne] Slater pressed Bush about whether he had ever been
arrested. 'He said, 'After 1968? No.'" Dallas Morning News, 11/03/2000
[Before 1968, Bush was arrested for theft and vandalism in college.]
A presidential candidate lying about his own arrest record
should always be pointed out.
http://firesigntheater.com/bergman/dui2.html
More disturbing were allegations of hard narcotics usage. The Bush campaign
dealt with it by taking the position they would not comment on the subject.
If somebody accused me of using hard narcotics I'd deny it, but that's
becasue I never did use them. Not commenting is close to admitting the
allegations are true.
I don't know what studies have been done on brain damage resulting from
cocaine / heroin whatever, but I doubt that it improves the intellect.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 05:31:43 PM |
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On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:38:41 GMT, "Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
"The group has been heavily funded by Houston conservative Bob Perry, who
has given over $5 million to Republicans in the past few years. Along
with the ad, there is a book "Unfit for Command" which is being published
by right-wing Regnery Press and being publicized by the conservative
magazine Human Events, which shares office space with Regnery. The PR
firm handling the projects is Creative Response Concepts run by former
Pat Buchanan communications director Greg Mueller with the help of former
Pat Robertson communications director, Mike Russell.
The co-author of the book is John O'Neill who has been debating John
Kerry since the 1970s. In fact, it was the Nixon White House, not the
Bush one, which was obsessed with Kerry's Vietnam service and anti-war
history. Nixon himself spent an hour with O'Neill before he debated Kerry
on the ***** Cavitt Show in 1971 and the current Swift Boat Vets saga has
a rather Nixonian cast. Former Nixon aide Pat Buchanan has been out
defending the project and pushing the book."
The truth is coming out about botox.
.
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| User: "Drew Nicholson" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 07:15:40 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c5jih0520jp0jdrs68omh1b6v2delt4h20@4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:38:41 GMT, "Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com>
wrote:
"The group has been heavily funded by Houston conservative Bob Perry, who
has given over $5 million to Republicans in the past few years. Along
with the ad, there is a book "Unfit for Command" which is being published
by right-wing Regnery Press and being publicized by the conservative
magazine Human Events, which shares office space with Regnery. The PR
firm handling the projects is Creative Response Concepts run by former
Pat Buchanan communications director Greg Mueller with the help of former
Pat Robertson communications director, Mike Russell.
The co-author of the book is John O'Neill who has been debating John
Kerry since the 1970s. In fact, it was the Nixon White House, not the
Bush one, which was obsessed with Kerry's Vietnam service and anti-war
history. Nixon himself spent an hour with O'Neill before he debated Kerry
on the ***** Cavitt Show in 1971 and the current Swift Boat Vets saga has
a rather Nixonian cast. Former Nixon aide Pat Buchanan has been out
defending the project and pushing the book."
The truth is coming out about botox.
Oh, NO! WhatEVER shall we DO? The SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING! THE
NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HAD A COSMETIC TREATMENT!
So _what_?
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 07:25:14 PM |
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"Drew Nicholson" <anicholson16@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6YmdnW98BZ8x-ITcRVn-iw@comcast.com...
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c5jih0520jp0jdrs68omh1b6v2delt4h20@4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:38:41 GMT, "Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com>
wrote:
"The group has been heavily funded by Houston conservative Bob Perry,
who
has given over $5 million to Republicans in the past few years. Along
with the ad, there is a book "Unfit for Command" which is being
published
by right-wing Regnery Press and being publicized by the conservative
magazine Human Events, which shares office space with Regnery. The PR
firm handling the projects is Creative Response Concepts run by former
Pat Buchanan communications director Greg Mueller with the help of
former
Pat Robertson communications director, Mike Russell.
The co-author of the book is John O'Neill who has been debating John
Kerry since the 1970s. In fact, it was the Nixon White House, not the
Bush one, which was obsessed with Kerry's Vietnam service and anti-war
history. Nixon himself spent an hour with O'Neill before he debated
Kerry
on the ***** Cavitt Show in 1971 and the current Swift Boat Vets saga
has
a rather Nixonian cast. Former Nixon aide Pat Buchanan has been out
defending the project and pushing the book."
The truth is coming out about botox.
Oh, NO! WhatEVER shall we DO? The SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING!
THE
NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HAD A COSMETIC TREATMENT!
So _what_?
Except, I doubt he did. He probably had a good make up job (they all get
them) before one appearance and these Bush scumbags leapt on the Botox
thing - they can't deal with real issues.
Kerry look late 50's, shows all his lines and wrinkles.
.
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| User: "namvet67" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 11:12:24 PM |
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as a right wing scumbag I thought I'd offer a thought or two....
Have you read the book? I don't think it's out yet?
Have you seen the ad?
Have you read the affidavits?
see: http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php
Trying to compare this issue with the trivial issue of cosmetics and/or
cosmetic procedures is disingenuous, at best.
Does it matter if Kerry lied about his Vietnam experience? Of course it
does!
It certainly appears that many (if not most) of those who served with him
say he lied.... Why isn't that a legitimate area?
I am aware that one person's experience, or perception (in war and most
other places) will differ from another.... even if they are side by side.
That said.... the swifties (those other right wing scumbags) have raised
issues about Sen. Kerry's own statements that, on the surface, appear
legitimate. BTW - They didn't make kerry's VN service a central issue HE
did!
As a Vietnam vet I was offended by Kerry's comments in '71 and still am.
As a citizen I have been offended by Kerry's voting record and political
opportunism..... not that he's alone in this, but that's hardly
praiseworthy.
Pres. Bush is not a favorite of mine either, but he's certainly the lesser
of two political evils.
As a riposte: I have seen Michael Moore's offering..... now there's a left
wing scumbag worthy of the name.
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 01:09:05 AM |
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"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote
as a right wing scumbag I thought I'd offer a thought or two....
There's irony, and then THERE'S IRONY.
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