| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Bill Case" |
| Date: |
10 Aug 2004 10:38:41 AM |
| Object: |
Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
From an article on the CBS news site called "Can Voters See Through Sham
Ads?"
"The group has been heavily funded by Houston conservative Bob Perry, who
has given over $5 million to Republicans in the past few years. Along
with the ad, there is a book "Unfit for Command" which is being published
by right-wing Regnery Press and being publicized by the conservative
magazine Human Events, which shares office space with Regnery. The PR
firm handling the projects is Creative Response Concepts run by former
Pat Buchanan communications director Greg Mueller with the help of former
Pat Robertson communications director, Mike Russell.
The co-author of the book is John O'Neill who has been debating John
Kerry since the 1970s. In fact, it was the Nixon White House, not the
Bush one, which was obsessed with Kerry's Vietnam service and anti-war
history. Nixon himself spent an hour with O'Neill before he debated Kerry
on the ***** Cavitt Show in 1971 and the current Swift Boat Vets saga has
a rather Nixonian cast. Former Nixon aide Pat Buchanan has been out
defending the project and pushing the book."
from
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/comment/story/0,14259,1278021,0
0.html
RE the Swiftboat group:
"The group was set up with the help of Merrie Spaeth, the widow of Tex
Lezar, who was Republican candidate for lieutenant governor of Texas in
the same year that Mr Bush ran for governor. He was a partner of Mr
O'Neill's at their Houston law firm.
Regnery, meanwhile, proclaims itself to be the leading conservative
publisher in the US. Acquired by Republican donor Thomas Philips in 1993,
it is a subsidiary of Eagle Publishing, which is using its flagship Human
Events magazine to promote Unfit for Command and build up its
subscription base and mailing lists.
Regnery publishes on any number of topics (from threats to marriage to a
defence of assault rifles), but scored a number of hits in the Clinton
years with titles such as the conservative columnist Ann Coulter's High
Crimes and Misdemeanors: the case against Bill Clinton.
The most notorious - Gary Aldrich's Unlimited Access: an FBI agent inside
the Clinton White House - depicted the executive mansion as a den of
debauchery, drug-taking and gay sex. One section claimed the president
was smuggled out under a rug for trysts with a female celebrity in a
nearby hotel. Mr Aldrich admitted in the book that many of his
allegations were, at best, second-hand.
On top of this, the O'Neill/Regnery axis has links going back to Richard
Nixon. Also a swift boat commander in Vietnam, Mr O'Neill was hired by
presidential aide Charles Colson in 1971 to discredit the recently
returned Mr Kerry's campaign against the war. Mr Kerry reputedly beat him
in a nationally televised debate on the ***** Cavett Show.
Sidney Blumenthal, a Guardian columnist and former adviser to Mr Clinton,
said he saw nothing new in Mr O'Neill's book and the campaign mounted by
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. "It reeks of partisan dirty tricks, and
the facts simply don't hold up at all. The intent is simply to dirty
Kerry," he said. "They have been trying to do this for a long time.
Regardless of whether it is false, they will put it out to see if it will
hurt."
The truth of the allegations is disputed by the Kerry campaign, and
contradicts the most authoritative account of his time in Vietnam,
Douglas Brinkley's Tour of Duty. The author is director of the Eisenhower
Centre for American Studies at New Orleans university, which specialises
in military history.
But the truth does not matter - to confuse the issue of Mr Kerry's
military service, which he has made such a strong part of his campaign,
is enough to occupy the candidate, distract him and muddy his record.
It is not the first time dirty tricks have surfaced in the 2004 campaign.
The Drudge Report (which has served as a conduit for the allegations over
Mr Kerry's Vietnam service, including allegations that he slaughtered
livestock and burned down a village with a Zippo lighter) ran reports in
February that the Massachusetts senator had an affair with an intern.
There was no truth in it.
Later, a photograph emerged of Mr Kerry at a rally with Jane Fonda, the
actress who visited Hanoi during the war and, to some, will forever be
known as Hanoi Jane. It was proven to be a fake.
"In all this campaign, attacking Kerry on his Vietnam heroism has always
backfired," Mr Blumenthal commented.
"It is particularly ironic and dangerous, given the fact that Bush is
withholding national service records that that show he did not show up
for duty in the Alabama national guard, and that he has still not come
clean about why he was suspended from flying in the Texas air national
guard after refusing to take a physical."
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for drink-driving a few
days before the last presidential election was blamed in some quarters
for the closeness of the result and his failure to win the popular vote.
Around the time of the Kerry intern allegations, the Republican national
committee chairman, Ed Gillespie, expressed outrage that the musician
Moby, a Kerry supporter, had told the New York Daily News it would be
possible to spread anti-Bush gossip on the internet to bring down his
support among, for example, anti-abortionists.
He then turned it into a pre-emptive rebuttal of a rumour that did not
even exist, opening up the interesting question of whether allegations of
dirty tricks constituted a form of dirty campaigning.
"We know now that, some time this fall, Kerry campaign operatives intend
to go into pro-life chatrooms on the internet to spread a scurrilous
story that President Bush drove a former girlfriend to an abortion clinic
and paid for her abortion," Mr Gillespie told the Washington Times.
Dirty campaigning is nothing new in US politics: in 1800, Thomas
Jefferson was accused of favouring the teaching of "murder, robbery,
rape, adultery and incest".
One of Mr Nixon's operatives, Donald Segretti, was imprisoned for illegal
campaign material, including faked letters alleging that a senator had
fathered an illegitimate child with a 17-year-old.
The 2004 race for the White House is close, and we should not be
surprised to see more dirty campaigning between now and November."
.
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| User: "namvet67" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 01:34:47 AM |
|
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hmmm... well yeah..... duh...
not a very useful response... but you seem to have use the term
appropriately, at least from your perspective.... bravo.
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nu-dnYT8PYcsK4TcRVn-rA@comcast.com...
"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote
as a right wing scumbag I thought I'd offer a thought or two....
There's irony, and then THERE'S IRONY.
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 08:54:04 AM |
|
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"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote
hmmm... well yeah..... duh...
I see you've mastered all the wit & charm usually
associated with top-posting.
That would be the "wit" of George Bush and the "Charm"
of ***** Cheney, in case you were wondering.
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 09:45:12 AM |
|
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"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:IZSdnY-pC9qx6IbcRVn-pw@comcast.com...
"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote
hmmm... well yeah..... duh...
I see you've mastered all the wit & charm usually
associated with top-posting.
That would be the "wit" of George Bush and the "Charm"
of ***** Cheney, in case you were wondering.
I'm pretty sure this is a Bushie scumbag, pretending to be a disabled VN
veteran who was in the vicinity of Kerry during the river rescue incident,
so he could then give us all discrediting "I was there" testimony.
We'll see.
.
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| User: "namvet67" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 05:17:00 PM |
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I'm pretty sure this is a Bushie scumbag, pretending to be a disabled VN
veteran who was in the vicinity of Kerry during the river rescue incident,
so he could then give us all discrediting "I was there" testimony.
We'll see.
Let's see... I already stated that I'm a 'scumbag'... your definition... so
you lose there. And I stated that I'm a libertarian.
I have been a lurker for years ('cause I enjoy most of Clancy's stuff) and
enjoy some of the exchanges.
Although I am a disabled VN vet I won't send you copies of the paper
work..... unless you can make a reasoned case that it somehow impacts my
observations that the swifties have a legitimate questions.
And, although I did serve (4, 6 month tours) my personal records are none of
your business..... I haven't claimed to be hero.....only that I was close to
Sen. Kerry's position on a several occasions.
To repeat for you..... I was not close to any of Kerry's adventures, but
shared some of the same water with the swifties.
Your response is disappointingly typical.... I really don't have the time or
energy to continue what has turned into a personal, ad hominum, attack.
So this leaves you only with...... being a jackass bent on trivializing the
issues raised by the swifties.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 05:33:51 PM |
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"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:411bed40$1_4@news.athenanews.com...
I'm pretty sure this is a Bushie scumbag, pretending to be a disabled VN
veteran who was in the vicinity of Kerry during the river rescue
incident,
so he could then give us all discrediting "I was there" testimony.
We'll see.
Let's see... I already stated that I'm a 'scumbag'... your definition...
so
you lose there. And I stated that I'm a libertarian.
I have been a lurker for years ('cause I enjoy most of Clancy's stuff) and
enjoy some of the exchanges.
Although I am a disabled VN vet I won't send you copies of the paper
work..... unless you can make a reasoned case that it somehow impacts my
observations that the swifties have a legitimate questions.
And, although I did serve (4, 6 month tours) my personal records are none
of
your business..... I haven't claimed to be hero.....only that I was close
to
Sen. Kerry's position on a several occasions.
To repeat for you..... I was not close to any of Kerry's adventures, but
shared some of the same water with the swifties.
Your response is disappointingly typical.... I really don't have the time
or
energy to continue what has turned into a personal, ad hominum, attack.
So this leaves you only with...... being a jackass bent on trivializing
the
issues raised by the swifties.
They didn't just raise "issues" - they attacked a man's war record for
political purposes, to make war shirker Bush look good. Bush has done the
same in the past to McCain and others.
In a previous post you imply you WERE around the action, but not close
enough to see it - now you only imply to having been in the same waters (at
a different time).
Nobody is trying to pry or discredit you, but when you say things like this,
in the kind of sick political environment we're in, which is largely a Bush
/ Rove creation, you have to expect people to be suspicious when you make
claims of info and insights beyond common knowledge.
Regards, BC
.
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| User: "namvet67" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 06:26:48 PM |
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They didn't just raise "issues" - they attacked a man's war record for
political purposes, to make war shirker Bush look good. Bush has done the
same in the past to McCain and others.
Your observations are a matter of opinion.... not necessarily a matter of
fact.
In a previous post you imply you WERE around the action, but not close
enough to see it - now you only imply to having been in the same waters
(at
a different time).
I do regret that I communicated poorly....as an aside: my read of what I
posted doesn't agree with yours.... but I will accept my failure. I was
close to the the riverine forces during some of the times at issue..... I
said no more. And I didn't make any other significant references.
Nobody is trying to pry or discredit you, but when you say things like
this,
in the kind of sick political environment we're in, which is largely a
Bush
/ Rove creation, you have to expect people to be suspicious when you make
claims of info and insights beyond common knowledge.
I agree that there is a sickness.... the genesis for that responsiblity I
disagree with.
Sen. Kerry has promoted himself as a Vietnam war hero..... that there are
those who disagree should have merit... the source of that disagreement
really isn't important. Kerry can dismiss the question simply by releasing
his records.
Regards, BC
Thanks for the simple courtesy
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 07:10:35 PM |
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"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:411bfd9e_3@news.athenanews.com...
They didn't just raise "issues" - they attacked a man's war record for
political purposes, to make war shirker Bush look good. Bush has done
the
same in the past to McCain and others.
Your observations are a matter of opinion.... not necessarily a matter of
fact.
No they are not. McCain was smeared, before primary elections with
allegation of being gay, having an illegitamate child, being under
"brainwash" control North Vietnamese and more.
In a previous post you imply you WERE around the action, but not close
enough to see it - now you only imply to having been in the same waters
(at
a different time).
I do regret that I communicated poorly....as an aside: my read of what I
posted doesn't agree with yours.... but I will accept my failure. I was
close to the the riverine forces during some of the times at issue..... I
said no more. And I didn't make any other significant references.
Nobody is trying to pry or discredit you, but when you say things like
this,
in the kind of sick political environment we're in, which is largely a
Bush
/ Rove creation, you have to expect people to be suspicious when you
make
claims of info and insights beyond common knowledge.
I agree that there is a sickness.... the genesis for that responsiblity I
disagree with.
OK. what do you think it's nature is, and coming from where?
Sen. Kerry has promoted himself as a Vietnam war hero..... that there are
those who disagree should have merit... the source of that disagreement
really isn't important. Kerry can dismiss the question simply by releasing
his records.
What records? He was decorated and given high fitness evaluations AT THE
TIME OF THE WAR - currently 9 of his 10 crewmates stand by him.
Regards, BC
Thanks for the simple courtesy
.
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| User: "namvet67" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 10:07:28 PM |
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Your observations are a matter of opinion.... not necessarily a matter of
fact.
No they are not. McCain was smeared, before primary elections with
allegation of being gay, having an illegitamate child, being under
"brainwash" control North Vietnamese and more.
Please offer details and references, and or links.... I truly do not doubt
what you say.... I simply never heard or saw any of that.... McCain IS a
hero in every sense of the word. I don't agree with some of his political
stances, but that is a different issue.
Nobody is trying to pry or discredit you, but when you say things
like
this,
in the kind of sick political environment we're in, which is largely a
Bush
/ Rove creation, you have to expect people to be suspicious when you
make
claims of info and insights beyond common knowledge.
I agree that there is a sickness.... the genesis for that responsiblity
I
disagree with.
OK. what do you think it's nature is, and coming from where?
I have to disagree with part of your premise. I should have addressed it
earlier but I thought it was outside the raw issues.
This will take a bit.... First the issue I have been trying to respond
to.... from my first post.... was whether the swift vets had the right to
respond, without personal attack, to Kerry's 'hero' statements and
allegations of war crimes.
NOT without question, mind you, but without the personal attacks.
If they are putting forth crap.... then Kerry can squash it simply by
publishing his records.....This has nothing to do with Bush's record or
McCain's record or anything else.
I don't know what happened back then.... I wasn't actively involved..... I
do know with some certainty that some folks used the 'clerk' aspect to
enhance their records.... that too is irrevelent..
Sooo..... we are left with some questions.
Who would benefit if the swifties were proven simply to be politically
motivated shitheads?
Who would benefit if Sen. Kerry released the records at issue and factually
demonstrated the inaccuracies or lies of the swifties?
We all would. This part of the Senator's campaign would be long gone....and
we wouldn't be wasting bandwidth.
However.... someone is orchestrating a policy of innuendo and ad hominum
attacks against the swifties without addressing the issues. I sure don't
know who it might be... but it should be visible to any with their eyes
open.
Who benefits from the attacks against the swifties..... Bush???
What records? He was decorated and given high fitness evaluations AT THE
TIME OF THE WAR - currently 9 of his 10 crewmates stand by him.
His medical records from VN for one..... the balance of his FITREPS for the
other....but that is my opinion.
These ARE records from the time.....
While I feel my records are off-limits the senator has put forth HIS partial
records as something we must accept as fact. He has spent a bunch of money
presenting himself as something that may well be open to question.
I have no idea why some swifties are for him and some are against..... a
fact is that there are those who might know who call his record into
question.
Why isn't this a legitimate area for discussion?
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 12:13:32 AM |
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"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:411c3156$1_7@news.athenanews.com...
Your observations are a matter of opinion.... not necessarily a matter
of
fact.
No they are not. McCain was smeared, before primary elections with
allegation of being gay, having an illegitamate child, being under
"brainwash" control North Vietnamese and more.
Please offer details and references, and or links.... I truly do not doubt
what you say.... I simply never heard or saw any of that.... McCain IS a
hero in every sense of the word. I don't agree with some of his political
stances, but that is a different issue.
I reccomend you address this issue in four steps.
1) look at this link for bio comparison between Kerry and Bush. It's slanted
in favor of Kerry, but still, its a good timeline comparison that does
basically adhere to facts. You can quickly get a comparative look at the 2
men.
http://www.independent-media.tv/itemprint.cfm?fmedia_id=7073&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported
2) use Google to search up info on how Bush and his poetical dirt man Karl
Rove have been operating. Particularly look for stuff on South Carolina
during their 2000 primaries.
In the blank try "mccain bush rove dirty tricks". You'll get lots back from
many sources. A book has been written on Rove - he has a long nasty history.
Then try your own search words, there's a LOT out there.
3) Home in on the Kerry VN issue. here's a bio book on him that libraries
will have.
Tour of duty : John Kerry and the Vietnam War by Brinkley, Douglas.
Brinkley is a university historian with a reputation to
protect.
Here's a Boston Globe article on Kerry in VN. This paper has covered him
more than any other,
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061603.shtml
4) A good book on the Bush Whitehouse and how its different from past ones
is
Worse than Watergate, john dean, in libraries. Well written, fact based,
analytical and only 200 pages.
Nobody is trying to pry or discredit you, but when you say things
like
this,
in the kind of sick political environment we're in, which is largely
a
Bush
/ Rove creation, you have to expect people to be suspicious when you
make
claims of info and insights beyond common knowledge.
I agree that there is a sickness.... the genesis for that responsiblit
y
I
disagree with.
OK. what do you think it's nature is, and coming from where?
I have to disagree with part of your premise. I should have addressed it
earlier but I thought it was outside the raw issues.
This will take a bit.... First the issue I have been trying to respond
to.... from my first post.... was whether the swift vets had the right to
respond, without personal attack, to Kerry's 'hero' statements and
allegations of war crimes.
NOT without question, mind you, but without the personal attacks.
If they are putting forth crap.... then Kerry can squash it simply by
publishing his records.....This has nothing to do with Bush's record or
McCain's record or anything else.
I don't know what happened back then.... I wasn't actively involved..... I
do know with some certainty that some folks used the 'clerk' aspect to
enhance their records.... that too is irrevelent..
Sooo..... we are left with some questions.
Who would benefit if the swifties were proven simply to be politically
motivated shitheads?
Who would benefit if Sen. Kerry released the records at issue and
factually
demonstrated the inaccuracies or lies of the swifties?
We all would. This part of the Senator's campaign would be long
gone....and
we wouldn't be wasting bandwidth.
However.... someone is orchestrating a policy of innuendo and ad hominum
attacks against the swifties without addressing the issues. I sure don't
know who it might be... but it should be visible to any with their eyes
open.
Who benefits from the attacks against the swifties..... Bush???
What records? He was decorated and given high fitness evaluations AT THE
TIME OF THE WAR - currently 9 of his 10 crewmates stand by him.
His medical records from VN for one..... the balance of his FITREPS for
the
other....but that is my opinion.
These ARE records from the time.....
While I feel my records are off-limits the senator has put forth HIS
partial
records as something we must accept as fact. He has spent a bunch of money
presenting himself as something that may well be open to question.
I have no idea why some swifties are for him and some are against..... a
fact is that there are those who might know who call his record into
question.
Why isn't this a legitimate area for discussion?
.
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| User: "Psalm 110" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 07:00:55 PM |
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BUSH's Lord and Savior Sun Myung Moon Owns Washington Times
Want to talk about Swift Boats? George Bush buddy Sun Myung Moon gave
nuclear weapons submarine sea-launch technology to North Korea in
1994.
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Nukes.html
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=Sun+Myung+Moon+Owns+Washington+Times&btnG=Search
GOOGLE.COM Results 12,100 for Sun Myung Moon Owns Washington Times.
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www.consortiumnews.com/2000/101100a.html - 9k
[ More results from www.consortiumnews.com ]
Dark Side of the Moon Spring 2000 -- Volume 38 No. 2
.... Dutifully, the Washington Times - a paper owned by self-proclaimed
messiah and cult
leader Reverend Sun Myung Moon - ran a headline stating, "Bush scoffs
at ...
http://www.americanatheist.org/spr00/T2/fitrakis.html - 16k
Salon.com News | Hail to the Moon king
.... Sun Myung Moon, owner of the conservative Washington Times
newspaper and UPI wire
service, who was given a bejeweled crown by Rep. Danny K. Davis,
D-Ill. ...
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/06/21/moon/ - 38k
Salon.com News | Bad Moon on the rise
... Sun Myung Moon drew a notable slate of political figures ...
of the remarkable transformation
of the billionaire Moon. ... not to mention his own criminal
conviction ...
www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/09/24/moon/ - 43k
[ More results from www.salon.com ]
Above Top Secret - Conspiracies in Religions - Sun Myung Moon ...
.... Sun Myung Moon, founder of the Unification Church, which owns the
Washington Times,
at a ceremony in a Senate office building in the presence of several
....
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread63615/pg1 - 37k
Washington TImes Used by Sun Moon
.... Sun Myung Moon's business empire, which includes the conservative
.... answer may lie in
Moon's own words during a ... powerful leaders listen to the
Washington Times. ...
http://www.usasurvival.org/moon-un.html - 42k
The Washington Times Reports that Sun Myung Moon is God
... Larry Witham THE WASHINGTON TIMES Published 7/4/2002 ... train
coming," said Mr. Barrett,
who rededicated his own marriage at ... Sun Myung Moon, the Korean
evangelist ...
www.usasurvival.org/ck7502.shtml - 51k
[ More results from www.usasurvival.org ]
INSIDE JoongAng Daily
.... Moon Sun Myung, a controversial religious figure who has called
.... Moon to meet the late
North Korean dictator ... the Washington Times, a church-owned daily
newspaper ...
joongangdaily.joins.com/200407/ 20/200407202340333879900090409041.html
- 25k
Definition of The Washington Times - wordIQ Dictionary & ...
.... Clinton, allowing the suit to continue after her own funding ran
.... a recent "God and
Peace" forum attended by Moon, Sen. ... Sun Myung Moon the "founder"
of the Times ...
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Washington_Times - 24k
Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | Moonie leader 'crowned' in ...
.... and Earth that Reverend Sun Myung Moon is none ... Dirksen
building reflected Mr Moon's
extraordinary influence ... He owns the conservative newspaper the
Washington ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/ Story/0,2763,1245930,00.html - 39k
RE-TAKING AMERICA - Sun Myung Moon Cult
.... Sun Myung Moon. "Rick" Ross Institute - Great authority on cults
and deprogramming.
Dark Side of Rev. ... Moon Front Groups ... He owns The Washington
Times paper ! ...
http://www.retakingamerica.com/sun_myung_moon_001.html - 74k
Wayne Madsen: Bush, Reverend Moon and North Korea
.... of Jesus Christ, the "Reverend" Sun Myung Moon of the ... For
twenty years, Moon's main
policy laundering ... the money-losing newspaper he owns outright
through New ...
http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen01142003.html - 25k
George Bush Blesses Moon
.... The South Korean evangelist Sun Myung Moon launched a new
Spanish-language newspaper
for the whole of Latin America this ... Moon already owns a major ...
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/8425/BUSHMOON.HTM - 7k
Rev. Moon section, founder of Unification Church or Moonies www.
....
... a major secular newspaper The Washington Times and started ...
she witnessed and heard
as Moon's own daughter ... even sued it's founder, Sun Myung Moon,
for financial ...
www.geocities.com/craigmaxim/moon.html - 20k
[ More results from www.geocities.com ]
Where in Washington, DC is Sun Myung Moon?: Disgruntled Moonist ...
Where in Washington, DC is Sun Myung Moon? ... Rev. Moon's speeches
Just this story. ... on
anti-Moonie sites claiming that the Washington Times owner and
conservative ...
tinyurl.com/2lvcp - 20k
Sun Myung Moon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
... In Washington, however, Moon first found common ground with
strongly ... sense for someone
to put his own money in ... Sun Myung Moon was given a bejeweled
crown by Rep ...
tinyurl.com/3gcdb - 40k - Cached - Similar pages
George W. Bush Charlton Heston Rudolph Giuliani John McCain Alan ...
.... The Reverend Sun Myung Moon, head of the Unification Church and a
self-declared
Messiah from South ... His organization owns The Washington Times, the
right ...
home.earthlink.net/~zkkatz/page76.html - 25k
Internet Infidels Discussion Forums - Sun Myung Moon Crowned King ...
.... the watches were provided by a Moon-owned business and ...
Rapture, genocide and the
Washington Times points out that ... I was a follower of Sun Myung
Moon for 10 ...
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread. php?goto=lastpost&t=89039 - 75k
Internet Infidels Discussion Forums - Sun Myung Moon Crowned King
....
... said emperors, kings and presidents had "declared to all
heaven and earth that Reverend
Sun Myung Moon is none ... o ...[Moon] owns The Washington Times
.... ...
www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-89039 - 31k
[ More results from www.iidb.org ]
WorkingForChange-The Rev. Moon's last stand?
.... Sun Myung Moon has developed a special relationship with the Bush
.... Moon-owned Washington
Times reported that "Hundreds of demonstrators, in yellow baseball
caps ...
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=17038 - 31k
WorkingForChange-The GOP's man on the Moon
... Sun Myung Moon. ... been sponsored by The Times -- the
Moon-owned conservative newspaper ... the
American Family Coalition and The Washington Times Foundation --
both ...
www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=14455 - 29k
[ More results from www.workingforchange.com ]
Barbelith Underground > Switchboard > Sun Myung Moon Crowned ...
.... Sun Myung Moon Crowned Messiah By Senators. ... me. Note: Moon
owns the
Washington Times, and is a big time DC insider. He ...
http://www.barbelith.com/topic/17985 - 32k
Sun Myung Moon Crowned Messiah By Congressmen
.... As a former follower of Sun Myung Moon, I can assure you that ...
We must not forget
that Moon has made many ... friends in Washington because of his
ownership of the ...
http://www.jonsullivan.com/DiaryDetail. php?pg=1337&mat=ddef - 30k
Sun Myung Moon & the CNP
.... CHEY: That's very difficult to determine. They mention The
Washington
Times weekly newspaper which is owned by Rev. Sun Myung Moon. ...
watch.pair.com/moon.html - 58k
Voluntarily in China: Adventist Rep. participates in Moon crowning ...
.... Sun Myung Moon. ... Moon with his millions that he has scammed
from his believers in ... He
owns the Washington Times which is very influential among
conservatives in ...
http://www.soapboxjams.com/china/archive/000290.html - 15k
Sun Myung Moon crowned as Second Coming in DC - INReview.com
.... the original document.) Sun Myung Moon, who is richer than
billionaire George Soros,
owns the Washington Times and the United Press International
Foundation. ...
http://www.inreview.com/archive/topic/23209.html - 16k
Conspiracy Planet - Phony Religion - 'Rev.' Sun Myung Moon Crowns ...
.... wealthy right-wing newspaper owner, one described ... marriage."
Originally published
-- Moon Over Washington. ... Sun Myung Moon's "coronation" at the
Dirksen Senate ...
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.
cfm?channelid=98&contentid=1322&page=2 - 31k
Transcript of a Radio Discussion about Sun Myung Moon and his ...
.... Sun Myung Moon. ... promoted by Christian political activists as
the "conservative"
Washington Times, never as the Unification Church-owned Washington
Times. ...
http://www.cephasministry.com/nwo_moon_and_the_right.html - 15k
Sun Myung Moon's Infiltration into the Churches
... There should be no doubt that the Washington Times and its
foundation are not
only owned and controlled by Sun Myung Moon, but are used to give
Moon both ...
www.cephasministry.com/
moons_infiltration_into_the_evangelical_church.html - 26k
[ More results from www.cephasministry.com ]
Lawmakers attend Moon 'coronation' in Dirksen=The Hill.com=
.... The Rev. Sun Myung Moon, former felon and current owner of The
Washington Times,
was the man in the spotlight, declaring himself humanity's "savior,
Messiah ...
http://www.hillnews.com/news/062204/moon.aspx - 26k - Aug 8, 2004
Moon Has Announced
.... Sun Myung Moon and his wife were crowned the "King and ... now
trying to distance themselves
from Moon - whose organization also owns the Washington ...
http://www.letusreason.org/moon8.htm - 26k
The Back Steps/Editor's Chair of Betty Elders' RedBird Cafe'
.... US Senate was used for a bizarre ritual in which the Rev Sun Myung
Moon, the head
of the Unification church, (editor's note: Moon owns Washington Times
and UPI ...
http://www.bettyelders.com/backsteps.htm - 29k
Unification Church in the News 4
.... of the Washington Times' 20th anniversary, its founder, the Rev.
Sun Myung Moon...News
World Communications, a private company wholly owned by Moon's ...
http://www.cultsoncampus.com/moon4.html - 17k
Rev. Moon, the Bushes & Donald Rumsfeld
.... Intelligence Agency was monitoring a series of clandestine
payments from Sun Myung
Moon's organization to ... Moon is not doing this in his own name,"
said Pak ...
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0103-07.htm - 32k - Aug 8, 2004
WorldNetDaily: 'Savior' Moon and the Washington Times
.... Moon's News World Corporation now owns United Press ... When Moon
arranged to have himself
actually crowned in the ... they front-paged the
Sun-Myung-Moon-Senate-Office ...
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39256 - 22k
Update: Not Quite Over the Moon
.... a Senate office building at which Sun Myung Moon was crowned ...
ties or their moral support
for Moon-owned publications like the Washington Times, think again ...
conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2004/update070804.html - 21k - Aug 8,
2004
Unification Press International
... speeches by Unification Church leader Sun Myung Moon and other
.... World Communications
is not an absentee owner. Moon believes his establishment of the
Washington ...
conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2000/upi.html - 13k
[ More results from conwebwatch.tripod.com ]
Capitol Hill Reception Honors Sun Myung Moon; Lawmakers Claim They ...
.... to all Heaven and Earth that Reverend Sun Myung Moon is none ...
thought the gathering
was to salute the Washington Times newspaper, which is owned by Moon's
....
news.christiansunite.com/ Religion_News/religion01120.shtml - 35k
Apologetics research resources on religious cults and sects ...
.... Sun Myung Moon has declared that 'the period of religion is ...
family (Moon has taught
that his own physical children ... well, including signs that as Moon
pulls out ...
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/u02.html - 23k
Comic Book Resources Forums - Sun Myung Moon?
.... Neither one appeared to have the pull that Sun Myung Moon has. ...
Moon owns the right-wing
sister to the Washington Post, the Washington Times. ...
forums.comicbookresources.com/ archive/index.php/t-12410.html - 7k
Moon Over Washington
.... Of Sun Myung Moon. ... [N]o one covered this American coronation,
except Moon's own
Times, which skipped the ... which only wink at the influence of
Moon's far-right ...
atheism.about.com/b/a/091709.htm - 19k
Veterans for Common Sense - News Article
.... Sun Myung Moon to be crowned "king" in a Senate ... official
invitation clearly lists
Moon and the neo-conservative Moonie-owned Washington Times as
organizers ...
http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/newsArticle.asp?id=1813 - 32k
Boing Boing: Where in Washington, DC is Rev. Sun Myung Moon?
.... leaders held a little ceremony in the Dirksen Senate Office
Building for Sun Myung
Moon, head of the Unification Church, owner of the Washington Times,
and an ...
http://www.boingboing.net/2004/06/23/where_in_washington_.html - 12k
SPSW - Rev. Sun Myung Moon crowned Messiah by US Representative
.... Sun Myung Moon crowned Messiah by US Representative, ... AM, what
else do you know about
Moon and DC ... He owns the Washington Times, contributes tremendously
to the GOP ...
http://www.someplacesomewhere.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22580 - 50k
Rev. Sun Myung Moon - Father's Words in Washington DC
Rev. Sun Myung Moon. ... Centering on pirates, Britain became an
empire on which the
sun never set. She had her queen. ... Dong-moon Joo, you should
understand it. ...
http://www.unification.net/2003/20030517_1.html - 41k
Rev. Sun Myung Moon - TWELFTH WORLD MEDIA CONFERENCE - THE MISSION
....
REVEREND SUN MYUNG MOON SPEAKS AT. ... for World Peace, an
organization headed by Mrs.
Moon-and young ... we attend God and experience his reality in our
own daily lives ...
www.unification.net/1992/920822.html - 18k
[ More results from www.unification.net ]
AWN Forums - Waning Wacom Tablets
.... Harvey Human. Did you know that Wacom is owned by the Reverend Sun
Myung Moon? ... Moon
also owns the insanely right-wing newspaper, the Washington Times. ...
forums.awn.com/archive/index.php/t-452.html - 8k
A Moon for the misbegotten
.... Sun Myung Moon is none other than humanity's Savior, Messiah,
Returning Lord and
True Parent," Moon beamed. ... One Moon-run firm, Saeilo, owns Kahr
Arms, a ...
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04179/337795.stm - 20k - Aug 8, 2004
Rev Moon, Richard Scaife, CSIS, and 'Homeland Security'
.... story in the Reverend Sun Myung Moon's Insight Magazine ...
combined company, which also
owns Pulsar, "distribute[s ... de Borchgrave, supported by Moon
publications; he ...
http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs0209/0915_dhs_moon.html - 9k
Robert Pitts' Adventures: Rev. Sun Myung Moon - Who is this guy?!
.... The Rev. Sun Myung Moon, former felon and current owner of The
Washington Times,
was the man in the spotlight, declaring himself humanity's 'savior,
Messiah ...
deadmoose.com/~rlpittsjr/journal/archive/002672.html - 11k
Moon Over Washington
.... had to wait two millennia for Sun Myung Moon to finish ...
Ultimately, we must judge Reverend
Moon not by what he says ... anticommunism grew out of his own
experience ...
www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/moon_over_washington.htm - 8k
USNEWSLINK © 2001 PETER ROFF: Ace 'Moonie-Tunes' Propagandist
.... peers'. Why are you working for the religious cult leader,
Reverend
Sun Myung Moon, who owns UPI and The Washington Times? I know ...
http://www.usnewslink.com/roff.htm - 26k
Religion News Blog : Moonie leader 'crowned' in Senate
.... Leader Sun Myung Moon's theology can only be described as ...
Dirksen building reflected
Mr Moon's extraordinary influence ... He owns the conservative
newspaper the ...
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/7646-.html - 39k
Ubersite - Moon over Washington
.... info) at 2004-06-24 09:29:30 (#) Ranking: 2 You may be interested
to know that Sun
Myung Moon owns United Press ... He also owns the Washington Times -
but the ...
http://www.ubersite.com/m/36573 - 24k
Sun Myung Moon - encyclopedia article about Sun Myung Moon. Free ...
.... The Hanja for "Moon" (?), the reverend's surname, means ... The
character "myung" (
?), part of his given name ... composed of the Chinese characters for
sun and moon ...
encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Sun%20Myung%20Moon - 49k
Jesus and Sun Myung Moon - encyclopedia article about Jesus and
....
... Discernment Ministries; Cult Ownership Of The ... are
disciples of Sun Myung Moon's controversial ... organizations,
including the Washington Times foundation, allied ...
encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/
Jesus%20and%20Sun%20Myung%20Moon - 55k
[ More results from encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com ]
In Perspective: Why Are Pastors Flying to Moon? - Christianity ...
.... Sun Myung Moon on his recent "We Will Stand" US tour ... could be
found on the church's
worth, Moon-owned properties are connected to The Washington Times and
a ...
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/132/33.0.html - 93k - Aug 9,
2004
Religious Leaders Defend Moon's Capitol Hill Coronation As 'King ...
.... Sun Myung Moon and his wife were crowned the "King and ... now
trying to distance themselves
from Moon - whose organization also owns the Washington ...
http://www.cnsnews.com/
ViewPolitics.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C200407%5CPOL20040701a.html
- 28k
Behind Rev. Moon's Gnostic Sex-and-Money Cult
.... Moon owns the second major daily in the national ... of the
world's greatest power, the
Washington Times, and the ... is the editor of the Sun Myung Moon
magazine, The ...
http://www.cardcounter.com/nonBJ.pl?noframes;read=629 - 10k
TheologyWebsite Forum: Sun Myung Moon
.... True, Moon does own the Washington Times newspaper, which he ...
to travel to Korea at
their own expense, where ... and Rage: Ten Years Under Sun Myung Moon,
may be ...
http://www.theologywebsite.com/forum/ ultimatebb.php?/topic/39/44.html
- 80k
Sermons of Rev. Sun Myung Moon
Founder's Address Reverend Sun Myung Moon. ... any of these levels,
the name of Reverend
Moon can not ... person so that they can completely overcome their own
sense of ...
http://www.unification.org/ucbooks/Mspks/1986/861128.html - 14k
Sermons of Rev. Sun Myung Moon
REVEREND SUN MYUNG MOON. ... America, I initiated many
organizations, including The Washington
Times, to respond ... of the universe, thus destroying our own
existence. ...
www.unification.org/ucbooks/Mspks/2000/000202.html - 30k
[ More results from www.unification.org ]
CJR Campaign Desk: Archives
.... The Washington Times is owned by fringe religious leader Rev. Sun
Myung Moon,
who, in addition to having been saluted by members of Congress, has
spoken ...
http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000681.asp - 13k - Aug 8, 2004
NHNE: Sun Myung Moon On The Move Again In America
.... Sun Myung Moon, a controversial Korean evangelist and founder of
.... Moon also has great
influence among Capitol Hill Republicans through his ownership of the
....
http://www.nhne.com/misc/sunmyungmoon.html - 39k
Charlotte Observer | 06/27/2004 | Messiah declaration creates ...
.... all heaven and earth that Reverend Sun Myung Moon is none ...
Moon, 84, mingles with
Washington's power elite by ... He owns The Washington Times, which
bills itself ...
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/ 2004/06/27/news/9023101.htm?1c
- 39k
Dispatches from the Culture Wars: Comment on WorldNetDaily ...
.... his major means of influencing policy in Washington. ... now, his
profitable associations
with Moon-owned businesses in ... a former follower of Sun Myung Moon
and am ...
http://www.mblog.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=67160 - 15k
chuck's fog of blog » happy america day!
.... Moon's ownership of the Washington Times, an arch ... I'ma former
follower of Moon
and if you'd ... Heartbreak and Rage: Ten Years Under Sun Myung Moon,
which is ...
blog.infernalbridegroom.com/charlie/index.php?p=30 - 14k
Where in Washington DC is Sun Myung Moon? | Democracy for Oregon
.... active girls try to take their own lives ... Moon project which
has received $475,000
in federal ... peace". Ideas about gay people, from Sun Myung Moon,
the Republican ...
http://www.democracyfororegon.com/aggregator/feed/68 - 27k
Bush "Moon shines"
.... on the subject to the Moonie owned paper, "The ... The Washington
Times newspaper has
long been bankrolled and ... Sun Myung Moon has worked to get
Unification Church ...
liberalslikechrist.org/about/bushmoon.html - 15k
ABCNEWS Message Boards
.... source! Most people don't know it but The Reverand Sun Myung Moon
of the Unification Church owns The Washington Times. An eastern ...
forums.go.com/abcnews/thread?threadID=9003 - 58k
Clubplanet Nightlife Message Boards - Wacko owner of the ...
View Full Version : Wacko owner of the Washington ... Moon Honored at
Hill Reception
Lawmakers Say They ... Sun Myung Moon in which Moon declared himself
the Messiah ...
bbs.clubplanet.com/archive/index.php/t-232013.html - 5k
MOON CROWNED MESSIAH - Th'Inmates ARE IN CHARGE
.... Sun Myung Moon, who is richer than billionaire George Soros, owns
the
Washington Times and the United Press International Foundation. ...
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=51325 - 11k
First Message from dxmivi
.... has authored or edited. Paragon House (and the Washington Times)
are
both owned by Sun Myung Moon. Here is information about Paragon ...
http://www.assassinationscience.com/dxmivi1.html - 9k
MediaChannel.org - REPORTS | UPI and Moon
.... Sun Myung Moon, enjoys 501(c)(3) nonprofit tax status despite ...
Extra!, pointed out
that "while Moon himself has ... the Washington Times has left its own
mark on ...
http://www.mediachannel.org/originals/upi-moon.shtml - 12k
Re: Rev Sun Myung Moon : March 2002 : ARN-L
.... Subject: Re: Rev Sun Myung Moon; From: kber <kber@EARTHLINK.NET>;
Date ... Moon do a
Google on his name (Sun Myun Moon ... Moon funded the production of
one of the worst ...
interversity.org/lists/ arn-l/archives/Mar2002/msg00398.html - 9k
TruthNews
.... The wire service's new owner is controlled by the Rev. Sun Myung
Moon, founder
of the Unification Church and the founder of the Washington Times. ...
truthnews.net/media/2000_05_upi.html - 13k
AmIAnnoying.com
.... Voting Station. Sun Myung Moon. Annoying Not Undecided Please vote
to see the ... to be
God Wrote the Divine Principle (1952) Owns the Washington Times
newspaper ...
http://www.amiannoying.com/
(eqnqfcezqspcs355npzyxmrw)/view.aspx?ID=1982 - 28k
we are now crowning kings on capital hill? | Mac Forums
.... He owns the hard-right Washington times (as well documented ...
But wait, how does Moon
get new followers in ... Do you think Sun Myung Moon qualifies as a
faith-based ...
forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-76728 - 15k
SoonerThought: Rightwing, Moonie-Owned Washington Times Features ...
Rightwing, Moonie-Owned Washington Times Features Ghostly
Endorsements. ... by the Washington
Times, George Washington says he ... Sun Myung Moon" and that he is
"the ...
http://www.soonerthought.com/archives/000119.html - 10k
Sun Myung Moon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.... Sun Myung Moon with criminal tax fraud, and a federal Grand ...
Moon was convicted of
the charges, and given an ... logo & characters are trademarks owned
by Diagonal ...
http://www.phatnav.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Sun_Myung_Moon - 33k
point2point: For all the Big Fat Journalists at the Washington ...
.... at the feet of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon listening to ... at the
Washington Times who
take Moon's dirty ... unwilling to investigate where their own
paychecks come ...
grahamlester.typepad.com/point2point/2004/05/for_all_the_big.html -
25k
Washington on Moon Juice : sf-imc
.... Picture a ruthless billionaire, a right-wing media mogul, owner of
the Washington
Times, UPI, Insight magazine ... The man I describe is known as Sun
Myung Moon. ...
sf.indymedia.org/news/2004/06/1696869.php - 22k
IHT: The talk of Washington: Reverend Moon's Senate 'coronation'
.... to all heaven and earth that Reverend Sun Myung Moon is none ...
for any formal program."
At 84, Moon cuts a ... He owns The Washington Times, which bills
itself as a ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/526375.html - 15k
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| User: "namvet67" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 04:41:30 PM |
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well... thank you
"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:IZSdnY-pC9qx6IbcRVn-pw@comcast.com...
"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote
hmmm... well yeah..... duh...
I see you've mastered all the wit & charm usually
associated with top-posting.
That would be the "wit" of George Bush and the "Charm"
of ***** Cheney, in case you were wondering.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 12:34:57 AM |
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"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:41199d91_3@news.athenanews.com...
as a right wing scumbag I thought I'd offer a thought or two....
Have you read the book? I don't think it's out yet?
Have you seen the ad?
Have you read the affidavits?
see: http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php
Trying to compare this issue with the trivial issue of cosmetics and/or
cosmetic procedures is disingenuous, at best.
Does it matter if Kerry lied about his Vietnam experience? Of course it
does!
At the time of the war, Kerry volunteered his way into combat, was given
high fitness reports, and decorated. The guy whose life he saved vouches for
him. Nine of ten boatmates vouch for him. These people scumbags weren't his
boatmantes.
This crap cam eup because of his anti- war activities, not his service
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| User: "namvet67" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 02:07:36 AM |
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At the time of the war, Kerry volunteered his way into combat, was given
high fitness reports, and decorated. The guy whose life he saved vouches
for
him. Nine of ten boatmates vouch for him. These people scumbags weren't
his
boatmantes.
of course - that only restates the elements that are in question.... and
BTW.... swift boats very rarely operated as a single. SEALS frequently used
one boat, of one kind or another, for insertions/extractions.... but the
rest of the riverine force usually operated with two or more craft. Nothing
that Kerry did or didn't do on the water was so far away that others
couldn't observe.... you didn't have to be on his boat. Kerry has never
claimed he was on a single boat mission during his adventures.
as for his fitreps see:
http://www.swiftvets.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Fitreps
there's a link to Kerry's website with a PDF of some of the released
fitreps. It's worth noting that some of the same officers that sign his
published fitreps are members of Swiftvets and appear in the TV ad against
his presidency.
This crap cam eup because of his anti- war activities, not his service
I don't agree.... being antiwar and speaking out about it is a right... and
maybe a responsibility. However, there is the question of doing it honestly.
Hell, I protested against the war.... not because I thought it was wrong,
but because I thought it was a waste if we weren't going to try to win. It
was also a good way to meet girls and get laid....... I wasn't always honest
about that bit myself.
Point is... Kerry made statements that couldn't be proven..... and included
sweeping accusations that washed everyone with the same crap. If he had
seen (and done) what he claimed he should have turned himself in .... along
with dates and times. At best he admitted to being a war criminal and was
trying to include each and every other person who served in his crime.
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 11:03:51 AM |
|
|
"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:4119c699_3@news.athenanews.com...
At the time of the war, Kerry volunteered his way into combat, was given
high fitness reports, and decorated. The guy whose life he saved vouches
for
him. Nine of ten boatmates vouch for him. These people scumbags weren't
his
boatmantes.
of course - that only restates the elements that are in question.... and
BTW.... swift boats very rarely operated as a single. SEALS frequently
used
one boat, of one kind or another, for insertions/extractions.... but the
rest of the riverine force usually operated with two or more craft.
Nothing
that Kerry did or didn't do on the water was so far away that others
couldn't observe.... you didn't have to be on his boat. Kerry has never
claimed he was on a single boat mission during his adventures.
You weren't there. His boatmates were.
as for his fitreps see:
http://www.swiftvets.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Fitreps
there's a link to Kerry's website with a PDF of some of the released
fitreps. It's worth noting that some of the same officers that sign his
published fitreps are members of Swiftvets and appear in the TV ad against
his presidency.
Exactly. AT THE TIME of the war they thought he was fine.
He comes home, goes anti-war, pissing off many of us (me included) THEN ALL
THIS ***** starts about him not being any good.
God, work it out.
This crap cam eup because of his anti- war activities, not his service
I don't agree.... being antiwar and speaking out about it is a right...
and
maybe a responsibility. However, there is the question of doing it
honestly.
Hell, I protested against the war.... not because I thought it was wrong,
but because I thought it was a waste if we weren't going to try to win. It
was also a good way to meet girls and get laid....... I wasn't always
honest
about that bit myself.
Point is... Kerry made statements that couldn't be proven..... and
included
sweeping accusations that washed everyone with the same crap.
I, and everybody I have talked to who was in combat in VN came back with
some reservations about how some ops were conducted.
However, in gunship helicopters, I also know we frequently put ourselves in
increased danger by NOT shooting everything that moved.
The point is this:
criticize him for his anti-war activities if you want, but don't lie about
his war service.
And all this back biting for Bush, a stupid shirking little scumbag who
wouldn't go to VN ????????
Maybe we VN vets really are a bunch of losers.
.
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| User: "John Tibbs" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 02:37:53 PM |
|
|
"Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HrrSc.17501$9Y6.7890@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:4119c699_3@news.athenanews.com...
At the time of the war, Kerry volunteered his way into combat, was
given
high fitness reports, and decorated. The guy whose life he saved
vouches
for
him. Nine of ten boatmates vouch for him. These people scumbags
weren't
his
boatmantes.
of course - that only restates the elements that are in question.... and
BTW.... swift boats very rarely operated as a single. SEALS frequently
used
one boat, of one kind or another, for insertions/extractions.... but the
rest of the riverine force usually operated with two or more craft.
Nothing
that Kerry did or didn't do on the water was so far away that others
couldn't observe.... you didn't have to be on his boat. Kerry has never
claimed he was on a single boat mission during his adventures.
You weren't there. His boatmates were.
Then why doesn't Kerry sue them for libel. He would have a good case and
maybe even a sure ticket
to 1600 Pennsylvania Av if he could show they were lying. Instead his
lawyers are trying to intimidate the media
into not airing their ads. Freedom of speech, anyone?
BTW, none of his accusers seem to be worried about that happening
as for his fitreps see:
http://www.swiftvets.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Fitreps
there's a link to Kerry's website with a PDF of some of the released
fitreps. It's worth noting that some of the same officers that sign his
published fitreps are members of Swiftvets and appear in the TV ad
against
his presidency.
Exactly. AT THE TIME of the war they thought he was fine.
He comes home, goes anti-war, pissing off many of us (me included) THEN
ALL
THIS ***** starts about him not being any good.
God, work it out.
This crap cam eup because of his anti- war activities, not his
service
I don't agree.... being antiwar and speaking out about it is a right...
and
maybe a responsibility. However, there is the question of doing it
honestly.
Hell, I protested against the war.... not because I thought it was
wrong,
but because I thought it was a waste if we weren't going to try to win.
It
was also a good way to meet girls and get laid....... I wasn't always
honest
about that bit myself.
Point is... Kerry made statements that couldn't be proven..... and
included
sweeping accusations that washed everyone with the same crap.
I, and everybody I have talked to who was in combat in VN came back with
some reservations about how some ops were conducted.
However, in gunship helicopters, I also know we frequently put ourselves
in
increased danger by NOT shooting everything that moved.
The point is this:
criticize him for his anti-war activities if you want, but don't lie about
his war service.
And all this back biting for Bush, a stupid shirking little scumbag who
wouldn't go to VN ????????
Maybe we VN vets really are a bunch of losers.
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 06:05:14 PM |
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"John Tibbs" <jwtibbs@earthlink.net> wrote
Then why doesn't Kerry sue them for libel. He would have
a good case and maybe even a sure ticket to 1600
Pennsylvania Av if he could show they were lying.
...and it's realistic to suggest that a law suit would make
it to court, and be completed, in only three months...
You're full of *****.
.
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| User: "Madelin McKinnon" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 09:20:55 PM |
|
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"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<wcWdnZN9GdpFOYfcRVn-uw@comcast.com>...
"John Tibbs" <jwtibbs@earthlink.net> wrote
Then why doesn't Kerry sue them for libel.
Because he has no time for morons and the morons who criticize him
consume a lot of ketchup, so he doesn't give a damn.
We need a decisive, President who doesn't read children's books when
America is under attack, this flip-flopping bunk is a flop.
Bush was against campaign finance reform; now he's for it.
Bush was against a Homeland Security Department; now he's for it.
Bush was against a 9/11 commission; now he's for it.
Bush was against an Iraq WMD investigation; now he's for it.
Bush was against nation building; now he's for it.
Bush was against deficits; now he's for them.
Bush was for free trade; then he was for tariffs on steel, and now
he's against them again.
Bush was against the U.S. taking a role in the Israeli-Palestinian
conflict; now he pushes for a "road map" and a Palestinian State.
Bush was for states' rights to decide on gay marriage; now he is for
changing the Constitution to outlaw gay marriage.
Bush said he would provide money for first responders (fire, police,
emergency); then he doesn't.
Bush said that "help is on the way" to the military; then he cuts
their benefits and health care.
Bush claimed to be in favor of environmental protection; then he
secretly approved oil drilling on Padre Island in Texas and other
places and took many more anti-environmental actions.
Bush said he is the "education president;" then he refused to fully
fund key education programs and rarely does his homework, such as read
position papers so he will be more knowledgeable on issues.
Bush said that him being governor of Texas for six years was enough
political experience to be president of the U.S.; then he criticized
Sen. John Edwards for not having enough experience after Edwards had
served six years in the U.S. Senate.
During the 2000 campaign, Bush said there were too many lawsuits being
filed; then during the Florida recount, he was the first to file a
lawsuit to stop the legal counting of votes after Gore took advantage
of Florida law to ask for a recount.
On Nov. 7, 2000, the Bush campaign supported Florida county officials
drawing up new copies of some 10,000 spoiled absentee votes in 26
Republican-leaning counties that the machines did not read and marking
them for the candidates when they showed "clear intent;" they opposed
doing the same thing after Nov. 7 when Gore asked for such recounts.
Bush dominated absentee balloting in Florida by a two-to-one margin.
Bush said during the 2000 campaign that he did not have a "litmus
test" for judges he appointed to be against abortion; then he mostly
appointed judges who were against abortion.
In the early 1990s, Bush led a campaign to raise taxes in Arlington,
Texas, to build a new baseball stadium for the team he partly owned;
he later criticized politicians for supporting tax increases ñ after
he got rich by selling the team with the new stadium to a wealthy
campaign contributor.
Bush opposed the U.S. negotiating with North Korea; now he supports
it.
Bush went to the racist and segregationist Bob Jones University in
South Carolina; then he said he shouldn't have.
Bush said he would demand a U.N. Security Council vote on whether to
sanction military action against Iraq; later Bush announced he would
not call for a vote.
Bush first said the "mission accomplished" Iraqi banner was put up by
the sailors; he later admitted it was done by his advance team.
Bush was for fingerprinting and photographing Mexicans who enter the
U.S.; after meeting with Mexican President Fox, he decided against it.
Bush was opposed to Rice testifying in front of the 9/11 commission
citing "separation of powers;" then he was for it.
Bush was against Ba'ath party members holding office or government
jobs in Iraq; now he's for it.
Bush said we must not appease terrorists; then he lifted trade
sanctions on admitted terrorist Mohammar Quaddafi and Pakistan, which
pardoned its official who sold nuclear secrets to Iran, Libya, and
North Korea.
Bush said he would wait until after the Nov. election to ask for more
money for the war effort; then he decided he needed it before the
election, after all.
Bush said, "Leaving Iraq prematurely would only embolden the
terrorists and increase the danger to America." His administration now
says that U.S. troops will pull out of Iraq when the new provisional
authority asks. Then he said they'll stay "as long as needed" again.
Now he's saying that the Iraqis can ask the troops to leave, and they
will. Or is he?
The Bush administration officials said that the Geneva Conventions
don't apply to "enemy combatants." Now they claims they do.
Bush officials said before the Iraq invasion that Iraq posed an
"imminent threat" to U.S. security and that Iraq had weapons of mass
destruction and even nuclear weapons; after the invasion, they denied
saying the word "imminent" and saying that Iraq had WMDs and nuclear
weapons, even though they were caught on tape making such statements.
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama Bin Laden. It is our
number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." - George
W. Bush, Sept. 13, 2001
"I don't know where he is. I have no idea, and I really don't care.
It's not that important. It's not our priority." - George W. Bush,
March 13, 2002
"For us to get bogged down in the quagmire of an Iraqi civil war would
be the height of foolishness."
---Defense Secretary ***** Cheney, 1991
Are you getting tired of this? Well, some in the American military are
getting tired of this, too: "The (Bush) administration has an overly
simplistic view of how and when to use our military. By not bringing
in our friends and allies, they have created a mess in Iraq and are
crippling our forces around the world." -Retired Admiral William
Crowe, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs under Ronald Reagan
http://www.geocities.com/jacknichols123/johnjohn.htm
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 03:44:30 PM |
|
|
"John Tibbs" <jwtibbs@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:lAuSc.12174$nx2.8091@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HrrSc.17501$9Y6.7890@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:4119c699_3@news.athenanews.com...
At the time of the war, Kerry volunteered his way into combat, was
given
high fitness reports, and decorated. The guy whose life he saved
vouches
for
him. Nine of ten boatmates vouch for him. These people scumbags
weren't
his
boatmantes.
of course - that only restates the elements that are in question....
and
BTW.... swift boats very rarely operated as a single. SEALS
frequently
used
one boat, of one kind or another, for insertions/extractions.... but
the
rest of the riverine force usually operated with two or more craft.
Nothing
that Kerry did or didn't do on the water was so far away that others
couldn't observe.... you didn't have to be on his boat. Kerry has
never
claimed he was on a single boat mission during his adventures.
You weren't there. His boatmates were.
Then why doesn't Kerry sue them for libel. He would have a good case and
maybe even a sure ticket
to 1600 Pennsylvania Av if he could show they were lying. Instead his
lawyers are trying to intimidate the media
into not airing their ads. Freedom of speech, anyone?
BTW, none of his accusers seem to be worried about that happening
Wake up.
Public figures don't have the same libel / slander protections that private
citizens have. Why do you the Enquirer and those other sleaze mags stay in
business?
Kerry's support from his actual crewmates, his decorations and high fitness
reports AT THE TIME OF THE WAR, show what the real story is.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 11:57:08 PM |
|
|
John Tibbs <jwtibbs@earthlink.net> wrote:
"Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
You weren't there. His boatmates were.
Then why doesn't Kerry sue them for libel.
He can't. He's a public figure. The legal standard is much, much
more difficult to meet.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "namvet67" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 06:04:12 PM |
|
|
You weren't there. His boatmates were.
Actually I was there... although not within eyeball range of him or his boat
(I think).... As I said before... perceptions differ of major events in our
lives.
Were you there?
Exactly. AT THE TIME of the war they thought he was fine.
He comes home, goes anti-war, pissing off many of us (me included) THEN
ALL
THIS ***** starts about him not being any good.
God, work it out.
Jeez... get a life already..... The issue is not his service.... if he
'clerked' a medal or two who cares.... A lie is a lie.... a war crime is a
war crime.
I, and everybody I have talked to who was in combat in VN came back with
some reservations about how some ops were conducted.
You bet..... but not relevant.
However, in gunship helicopters, I also know we frequently put ourselves
in
increased danger by NOT shooting everything that moved.
what unit? if we're gonna have a pissing contest I'd like to know.
The point is this:
criticize him for his anti-war activities if you want, but don't lie about
his war service.
I've only said that there are legitimate questions about his service raised
by folks who also served. HE set up the questions...
And all this back biting for Bush, a stupid shirking little scumbag who
wouldn't go to VN ????????
Maybe we VN vets really are a bunch of losers.
speak for yourself.....
although disabled (VN) I lead a pretty good life. And I vote republican when
there is no viable independent or, better yet, libertarian candidate.
And you must feel really good to see how many NG and Reserve units are
avoiding combat? Those folks are shirking scumbags according to you.
I volunteered for Nam and never felt a moments upset with those who served
ANYWHERE else.... I think Clinton fits your characterization much closer
than Bush..... but then that's a different critter.
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 06:19:36 PM |
|
|
"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:411aa6d4$1_4@news.athenanews.com...
You weren't there. His boatmates were.
Actually I was there... although not within eyeball range of him or his
boat
(I think).... As I said before... perceptions differ of major events in
our
lives.
Were you there?
No and I didn't say I was.
Your handle is "namvet67"; I assume 67 means 1967. These events took place
in 1968, right?
Exactly. AT THE TIME of the war they thought he was fine.
He comes home, goes anti-war, pissing off many of us (me included) THEN
ALL
THIS ***** starts about him not being any good.
God, work it out.
Jeez... get a life already..... The issue is not his service.... if he
'clerked' a medal or two who cares.... A lie is a lie.... a war crime is a
war crime.
He didn't clerk anything you phony. If you disagrre with him, say so like a
man instead of slimy inferences.
I, and everybody I have talked to who was in combat in VN came back with
some reservations about how some ops were conducted.
You bet..... but not relevant.
However, in gunship helicopters, I also know we frequently put ourselves
in
increased danger by NOT shooting everything that moved.
what unit? if we're gonna have a pissing contest I'd like to know.
No pissing match. So where were you in 1967 that you saw this action in
1968? I don't claim to have been around it.
The point is this:
criticize him for his anti-war activities if you want, but don't lie
about
his war service.
I've only said that there are legitimate questions about his service
raised
by folks who also served. HE set up the questions...
No he didn't. They've been attacking him for years. I think you're a fucking
liar.
And all this back biting for Bush, a stupid shirking little scumbag who
wouldn't go to VN ????????
Maybe we VN vets really are a bunch of losers.
speak for yourself.....
although disabled (VN) I lead a pretty good life. And I vote republican
when
there is no viable independent or, better yet, libertarian candidate.
And you must feel really good to see how many NG and Reserve units are
avoiding combat? Those folks are shirking scumbags according to you.
I volunteered for Nam and never felt a moments upset with those who served
ANYWHERE else.... I think Clinton fits your characterization much closer
than Bush..... but then that's a different critter.
.
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| User: "keith" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
14 Aug 2004 08:43:59 PM |
|
|
"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote in message news:<411aa6d4$1_4@news.athenanews.com>...
You weren't there. His boatmates were.
Hi Nam vet
First of all, thank you for your service. I have a couple of comments
to your post.
Actually I was there... although not within eyeball range of him or his boat
(I think).... As I said before... perceptions differ of major events in our
lives.
Were you there?
you didn't ask *me* the question, but I'll answer it anyway: I wasn't
in Vietnam (as I was only 15 or so when the US withdrew), nor any
other war. But I think it important to note that the people who served
with Kerry on the same boat almost universally praise his bravery
under fire, and at the *time* Kerry was officially praised for his
service in the war. His present day critics should have said something
before Kerry became active against the war, if Kerry didn't deserve
the accolades he received, if kerry was a coward or committed a war
crime. I didn't see Kerry's actions, but under the circumstances it
seems that his boatmates are more credible than his critics wrt his
service.
(snip)
The point is this:
criticize him for his anti-war activities if you want, but don't lie about
his war service.
I've only said that there are legitimate questions about his service raised
by folks who also served. HE set up the questions...
And all this back biting for Bush, a stupid shirking little scumbag who
wouldn't go to VN ????????
Maybe we VN vets really are a bunch of losers.
speak for yourself.....
although disabled (VN) I lead a pretty good life. And I vote republican when
there is no viable independent or, better yet, libertarian candidate.
And you must feel really good to see how many NG and Reserve units are
avoiding combat? Those folks are shirking scumbags according to you.
Today is obviously different; the reservists and NGers are being
called up because we can't draft the troops needed in Iraq. But it was
different back then, surely you agree.
I volunteered for Nam and never felt a moments upset with those who served
ANYWHERE else.... I think Clinton fits your characterization much closer
than Bush..... but then that's a different critter.
I really don't see how you can be more critical of a person who
thought the war was wrong and consequently figured out a way to avoid
going than you are of a person who supported the war--for other people
but not for himself.
see you later
Keith
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
|
| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
15 Aug 2004 11:06:20 AM |
|
|
"keith" <keithj43@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ba696799.0408141743.69114aa7@posting.google.com...
"namvet67" <namvet67@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:<411aa6d4$1_4@news.athenanews.com>...
You weren't there. His boatmates were.
Hi Nam vet
First of all, thank you for your service. I have a couple of comments
to your post.
Actually I was there... although not within eyeball range of him or his
boat
(I think).... As I said before... perceptions differ of major events in
our
lives.
Were you there?
you didn't ask *me* the question, but I'll answer it anyway: I wasn't
in Vietnam (as I was only 15 or so when the US withdrew), nor any
other war. But I think it important to note that the people who served
with Kerry on the same boat almost universally praise his bravery
under fire, and at the *time* Kerry was officially praised for his
service in the war. His present day critics should have said something
before Kerry became active against the war, if Ker | | | | | | |
