| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Bill Case" |
| Date: |
10 Aug 2004 10:38:41 AM |
| Object: |
Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
From an article on the CBS news site called "Can Voters See Through Sham
Ads?"
"The group has been heavily funded by Houston conservative Bob Perry, who
has given over $5 million to Republicans in the past few years. Along
with the ad, there is a book "Unfit for Command" which is being published
by right-wing Regnery Press and being publicized by the conservative
magazine Human Events, which shares office space with Regnery. The PR
firm handling the projects is Creative Response Concepts run by former
Pat Buchanan communications director Greg Mueller with the help of former
Pat Robertson communications director, Mike Russell.
The co-author of the book is John O'Neill who has been debating John
Kerry since the 1970s. In fact, it was the Nixon White House, not the
Bush one, which was obsessed with Kerry's Vietnam service and anti-war
history. Nixon himself spent an hour with O'Neill before he debated Kerry
on the ***** Cavitt Show in 1971 and the current Swift Boat Vets saga has
a rather Nixonian cast. Former Nixon aide Pat Buchanan has been out
defending the project and pushing the book."
from
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/comment/story/0,14259,1278021,0
0.html
RE the Swiftboat group:
"The group was set up with the help of Merrie Spaeth, the widow of Tex
Lezar, who was Republican candidate for lieutenant governor of Texas in
the same year that Mr Bush ran for governor. He was a partner of Mr
O'Neill's at their Houston law firm.
Regnery, meanwhile, proclaims itself to be the leading conservative
publisher in the US. Acquired by Republican donor Thomas Philips in 1993,
it is a subsidiary of Eagle Publishing, which is using its flagship Human
Events magazine to promote Unfit for Command and build up its
subscription base and mailing lists.
Regnery publishes on any number of topics (from threats to marriage to a
defence of assault rifles), but scored a number of hits in the Clinton
years with titles such as the conservative columnist Ann Coulter's High
Crimes and Misdemeanors: the case against Bill Clinton.
The most notorious - Gary Aldrich's Unlimited Access: an FBI agent inside
the Clinton White House - depicted the executive mansion as a den of
debauchery, drug-taking and gay sex. One section claimed the president
was smuggled out under a rug for trysts with a female celebrity in a
nearby hotel. Mr Aldrich admitted in the book that many of his
allegations were, at best, second-hand.
On top of this, the O'Neill/Regnery axis has links going back to Richard
Nixon. Also a swift boat commander in Vietnam, Mr O'Neill was hired by
presidential aide Charles Colson in 1971 to discredit the recently
returned Mr Kerry's campaign against the war. Mr Kerry reputedly beat him
in a nationally televised debate on the ***** Cavett Show.
Sidney Blumenthal, a Guardian columnist and former adviser to Mr Clinton,
said he saw nothing new in Mr O'Neill's book and the campaign mounted by
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. "It reeks of partisan dirty tricks, and
the facts simply don't hold up at all. The intent is simply to dirty
Kerry," he said. "They have been trying to do this for a long time.
Regardless of whether it is false, they will put it out to see if it will
hurt."
The truth of the allegations is disputed by the Kerry campaign, and
contradicts the most authoritative account of his time in Vietnam,
Douglas Brinkley's Tour of Duty. The author is director of the Eisenhower
Centre for American Studies at New Orleans university, which specialises
in military history.
But the truth does not matter - to confuse the issue of Mr Kerry's
military service, which he has made such a strong part of his campaign,
is enough to occupy the candidate, distract him and muddy his record.
It is not the first time dirty tricks have surfaced in the 2004 campaign.
The Drudge Report (which has served as a conduit for the allegations over
Mr Kerry's Vietnam service, including allegations that he slaughtered
livestock and burned down a village with a Zippo lighter) ran reports in
February that the Massachusetts senator had an affair with an intern.
There was no truth in it.
Later, a photograph emerged of Mr Kerry at a rally with Jane Fonda, the
actress who visited Hanoi during the war and, to some, will forever be
known as Hanoi Jane. It was proven to be a fake.
"In all this campaign, attacking Kerry on his Vietnam heroism has always
backfired," Mr Blumenthal commented.
"It is particularly ironic and dangerous, given the fact that Bush is
withholding national service records that that show he did not show up
for duty in the Alabama national guard, and that he has still not come
clean about why he was suspended from flying in the Texas air national
guard after refusing to take a physical."
Of course, Democrats are not the only victims of dirty tricks. The
emergence of documents detailing Mr Bush's arrest for drink-driving a few
days before the last presidential election was blamed in some quarters
for the closeness of the result and his failure to win the popular vote.
Around the time of the Kerry intern allegations, the Republican national
committee chairman, Ed Gillespie, expressed outrage that the musician
Moby, a Kerry supporter, had told the New York Daily News it would be
possible to spread anti-Bush gossip on the internet to bring down his
support among, for example, anti-abortionists.
He then turned it into a pre-emptive rebuttal of a rumour that did not
even exist, opening up the interesting question of whether allegations of
dirty tricks constituted a form of dirty campaigning.
"We know now that, some time this fall, Kerry campaign operatives intend
to go into pro-life chatrooms on the internet to spread a scurrilous
story that President Bush drove a former girlfriend to an abortion clinic
and paid for her abortion," Mr Gillespie told the Washington Times.
Dirty campaigning is nothing new in US politics: in 1800, Thomas
Jefferson was accused of favouring the teaching of "murder, robbery,
rape, adultery and incest".
One of Mr Nixon's operatives, Donald Segretti, was imprisoned for illegal
campaign material, including faked letters alleging that a senator had
fathered an illegitimate child with a 17-year-old.
The 2004 race for the White House is close, and we should not be
surprised to see more dirty campaigning between now and November."
.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 05:43:21 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:83snh0da595v8ajsbm92ptrroo5sa5dtj0@4ax.com...
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:58:30 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
Odd how the people who actuall *served on te boats* with Kerry are
supporting him (with one exception), while the people claiming to have
served with him often weren;'t even in the same hemisphere at the same
time!
Those 5 or 6 guys on the boat with him were ducking bullets.
You're lying yellow piece of *****.
Here are the 10 crewmates who served with Kerry in Vietnam. All but Steve
Gardner support John Kerry and stood with him as he made his speech to the
DNC. (except Tom Belodeau who is deceased .
I'll let them speak for themselves, including Steve Gardner. The following
are sourced quotes.
PCF-94
Starting in late January 1969, this crew completed 18 missions over an
intense and dangerous 48 days, almost all of them in the dense jungles of
the Mekong Delta. The most intense action came during an extraordinary eight
days of more than 10 firefights, remembered by Kerry's crew as the "days of
hell."
David Alston
Rev. Alston is from Columbia, SC and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a
Gunners Mate on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.
"David Alston was the gunner atop Kerry's pilot house. Kerry, he told an
audience here, was a compassionate commander. `We were in a lot of
firefights,' Alston said. `You learn a lot about people. After a firefight,
John would come up to me and he would put his hand on me and he'd say,
'David, are you all right?' `I didn't know then that I had a man of God on
my boat,' Kerry said. `That's probably why I'm here today'." [Orlando
Sentinel, 1/31/04]
`Down in the Mekong Delta, we lived together, we fought together, we bled
together and we survived together,' said Alston. `Whether we were Democratic
or Republican was not the issue,' he said. `The issues at that time were
trust, courage, judgment and character.' Alston attached those attributes to
Kerry and introduced his friend with no further ceremony." [Providence
Journal-Bulletin, 3/23/03]
Alston is the crewmate who gave a speech at the DNC last week. The text is
here
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/
Del Sandusky
Mr. Sandusky is from Dunedin, FL and served in Vietnam in the Navy as the
senior enlisted man on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.
"Kerry commanded a Navy `Swift Boat' that patrolled the Mekong delta. His
crew recalls Kerry as brainy and extremely aggressive, `a good leader and a
bit of a hard-charger,' says Del Sandusky from Elgin, Ill." [Washington
Post, 6/2/02]
"Del Sandusky, 58, of Elgin, Ill., and Clearwater, Fla., served under Kerry
on a patrol boat in 1969. When another boat hit a mine, Kerry ordered the
dead and injured brought on board and the sinking boat towed, six or seven
miles, to the Gulf of Tonkin. Because Americans had died on the boat, Kerry,
out of loyalty, wouldn't leave it behind for the enemy. `All the boat crew
men volunteered to help in anyway we can,' with Kerry's political campaigns,
Sandusky said. `Whatever he wants, we'll help him with. Because we believe
in him.' " [AP, 12/6/02]
Fred Short
Mr. Short is from North Little Rock, AR and served in Vietnam in the Navy as
a Gunners Mate on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.
"In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And
I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you
might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know,
I've seen it.
"If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he
won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation.
My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man
save my life."3
3La Ganga, Maria L. "Crewmates Attest to Kerry's Mettle as Wartime
Commander." Los Angeles Times. 29 July 2004 (p. A13). Zoroya, Greg. "Vietnam
Crewmates Steady at Kerry's Side." USA Today. 29 July 2004 (p. A4).
Gene Thorson
Mr. Thorson is from Ames, Iowa and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a
Engineman on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.
In support of this grassroots deployment, 73,000 Iowa veteran households
received a mailing in December from Kerry's Vietnam swift boat crewmate Gene
Thorsen, of Ames, IA, rallying them to "stand up for John Kerry the same way
he stands up for veterans."
He said he knew back then that the skipper of his boat, John Kerry, was
bound for high places. Almost 30 years later, Thorson got a call from Kerry
asking for political help. Now, he often gives up his weekends to travel
with other veterans and campaign with Kerry on his run for president.
By: Matt Neznanski, Staff Writer July 19, 2004
Ames Tribune
"He took care of all of us. He really did," Thorson said.
Des Moines Register
Tom Belodeau is deceased, he served on PCF-94 with Kerry
Kerry was helped by the fact that Belodeau stood beside him and said he had
been misquoted."This man was not lying on the ground. This man was more than
capable of destroying that boat and everybody on it. Senator Kerry did not
give him that opportunity," Belodeau said. He also said that he was not sure
whether or not he had hit the attacker.
May 06, 2004 National Review Online
Mike Medeiros
Mr. Medeiros is from San Leandros, California and served in Vietnam in the
Navy on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.
"He made good decisions, I believe proper decisions," said Mike Medeiros of
San Leandro, Calif., who served for four months on Kerry's swift boat in
Vietnam. "And the fact that we all returned alive is a good indication that
they were the right decisions."Medeiros was reunited with Kerry in 1996,
when Republicans were attacking his military record in a heated Senate race.
Kerry's crew mates came to set the record straight at the Charlestown Navy
Yard, the same place they stood shoulder-to-shoulder on the eve of his
nomination acceptance.
ABCNEWS.com July 28, 2004 From AP
PFC-44
Kerry captained this ship from November 1968 to January 1969. This command
saw considerably less action
Jim Wasser
Mr. Wasser is from St. Anne, IL and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a
Radarman on PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.
Mr. Kerry took command of P.C.F.-44 with a veteran crew headed by Mr.
Wasser, a radarman second class. "Always, when there's a new guy on the
boat, you check him out," Mr. Wasser said. "It only took me a few days. We
knew that we had somebody special that cared for us. We bonded."
Combative and politically conservative, Mr. Wasser, from Kankakee, Ill., had
a pair of American flags tattooed on his shoulder and still loathes Jane
Fonda.
NYTimes Febuary 24 2004
What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and
leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a
guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the
consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."
2. Braun, Stephen. "Kerry's War Tour Serves as Theme, Target." Los Angeles
Times. 29 July 2004 (p. A13). Brinkley, Douglas. Tour of Duty: John Kerry
and the Vietnam War. New York: HarperCollins, 2004. ISBN 0-06-056523-3.
Klein, Joe. "The Long War of John Kerry." The New Yorker. 2 December 2002.
Kranish, Michael. "John F. Kerry: Candidate in the Making -- Part 2:
Heroism, and Growing Concern About War." The Boston Globe. 16 June 2003.
Drew Whitlow
Mr. Whitlow is from Huntsville, AR and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a
Boatswain Mate on PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.
"I figured with the abilities he had, he was going to go high, but I didn't
have any idea about him running for president," said Whitlow, 57, wearing a
cap decorated with Kerry campaign pins.
Whitlow said he recalled Kerry as a humble seaman when he joined Whitlow's
crew as a lieutenant junior grade in 1968.
Kerry told crewmates, "I know you guys don't need me but I sure need you,"
said Whitlow, who served as a boatswain mate.
"He accepted us for who we were," Whitlow said. "The decisions that he made
saved our lives.
"He never shot from the hip when it came to decisions," Whitlow said. "He'd
always confront the problems head on."
Whitlow, a Kerry campaign coordinator for veterans in western and southern
Arkansas, began campaigning for Kerry in September 2003. In January, Whitlow
traveled with Kerry to Iowa and New Hampshire.
The Times Record Fort Smith, Arkansas Thursday, July 29, 2004
Bill Zaladonis
Mr. Zaladonis is from Sanford, FL and served in Vietnam in the Navy on
PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.
"I never saw John back down from anything," crewmember Bill Zaladonis says
April 13, 2004 USA Today
Steve Hatch
Mr. Hatch served in Vietnam in the Navy on PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.
Stephen W. Hatch of Altoona, Pa., with four tattoos, who says he supports
Mr. Kerry though he wants no part of politics.
NYTimes Febuary 24 2004
"He wouldn't let you go randomly down the river shooting up everything in
sight," says Stephen Hatch, who served on the first of Kerry's two boats.
April 13, 2004 USA Today
Stephen M. Gardner
Served in Vietnam in the Navy on PCF-44 with Senator John Kerry
"Kerry was chickenshit," he insists. "Whenever a firefight started he always
pulled up stakes and got the hell out of Dodge."
"I was driving down the road, and I hit that [radio] button and Rush was
talking about Kerry and his campaign and how something just didn't feel
right to him," Gardner recalled, his voice full of conviction. "Something
about what John Kerry did or was doing, just really didn't set right with
him. And you know I served with this guy, and the bottom line to it is;
harsh as this may sound or as good as it sounds to any Democrat, out there,
John Kerry is another `Slick Willy.' He's another Bill Clinton and that's
exactly what he is. And I'm telling you right now, that if John Kerry gets
to be president of these United States, it'll be a sorry day in this world
for us. We can't stand another Democrat like that in there again. We'll get
our asses in such a sling this time; we won't be able to get out of it. And
the bottom line to it is, I don't care how much John Kerry's changed after
he moved off my boat, his initial patterns of behavior when I met him and
served under him was somebody who ran from the enemy, rather than engaged
it. If I'd had Rush's 800 number, or known how to reach him, I would have
called in."
"I've told a few of my friends that he was an *****," Gardner says. "But
I'm not looking to make news."
"Kerry sat some of them down and convinced them to buy into his side of what
happened over there,"
"When you're as persuasive as Kerry it's not hard to make a guy change
something that he saw."
A recent interview with Gardner is at the Time link. The interview explains
why he haven't been heard of until recently. All of the Gardner quotes are
here and more.
The author of the Time article states that he believes Gardner's motives are
political, and after reading what he had to say I'm inclined to agree.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,599034,00.html
Jim Rassmann was not a crewmate but I think belongs here.
Jim Rassmann
Mr. Rassmann is from Florence, OR and served in Vietnam as a Special Forces
Officer in the Army.
He clung to the net as bullets whizzed past. `Next thing I knew, John came
out in the middle of all this,' Rassmann says. `I couldn't believe it. He
was going to get killed. He ran to the edge, reached over with his good arm
[Kerry had been wounded in his right arm] and pulled me over the lip.'
Rassmann later recommended Kerry for the Silver Star, and was upset when the
Army instead awarded Kerry a lesser Bronze Star with a `V' for valor." [Los
Angeles Times, 3/13/04]
Under [Navy Admiral Elmo] Zumwalt's command, swift boats would aggressively
engage the enemy. Zumwalt, who died in 2000, calculated in his autobiography
that these men under his command had a 75 percent chance of being killed or
wounded during a typical year.
Here is Kerry's request to go to Vietnam
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Request_For_Swiftboat_Duty.pdf
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
14 Aug 2004 07:57:13 AM |
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On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:43:21 GMT, "Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Odd how the people who actuall *served on te boats* with Kerry are
supporting him (with one exception), while the people claiming to have
served with him often weren;'t even in the same hemisphere at the same
time!
Those 5 or 6 guys on the boat with him were ducking bullets.
You're lying yellow piece of *****.
No, that's true. It was the covering boats that saw him for what he is.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
14 Aug 2004 12:15:25 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:9v2sh0l5cn35lm29snasvuonnfngs3geh2@4ax.com...
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:43:21 GMT, "Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com>
wrote:
Odd how the people who actuall *served on te boats* with Kerry are
supporting him (with one exception), while the people claiming to have
served with him often weren;'t even in the same hemisphere at the same
time!
Those 5 or 6 guys on the boat with him were ducking bullets.
You're lying yellow piece of *****.
No, that's true. It was the covering boats that saw him for what he is.
Even the Bushies know this is a lie, they just don't care.
And they don't care about the kind of corrosion this cowardly slander will
have on comradeship among troops, as it sinks into American culture.
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| User: "Carl Kaufmann" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 07:29:11 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:58:30 GMT, Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
Odd how the people who actuall *served on te boats* with Kerry are
supporting him (with one exception), while the people claiming to have
served with him often weren;'t even in the same hemisphere at the same
time!
Those 5 or 6 guys on the boat with him were ducking bullets.
If they were ducking bullets, then the boat _was_ taking fire. Do
you think these things through before you write them?
--
EAC Liar, Damned Liar, and Statistician
alt.atheist #1966
"Statistical thinking will one day be as necessary for efficient
citizenship as the ability to read and write." - H.G. Wells
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
14 Aug 2004 07:59:00 AM |
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On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:29:11 -0400, Carl Kaufmann <cwkaufmann@cox.net> wrote:
Odd how the people who actuall *served on te boats* with Kerry are
supporting him (with one exception), while the people claiming to have
served with him often weren;'t even in the same hemisphere at the same
time!
Those 5 or 6 guys on the boat with him were ducking bullets.
If they were ducking bullets, then the boat _was_ taking fire. Do
you think these things through before you write them?
Of course they were taking fire. It was the covering boats that the shameful comments
about him are coming from.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 05:34:04 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c5jih0520jp0jdrs68omh1b6v2delt4h20@4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:38:41 GMT, "Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com>
wrote:
"The group has been heavily funded by Houston conservative Bob Perry, who
has given over $5 million to Republicans in the past few years. Along
with the ad, there is a book "Unfit for Command" which is being published
by right-wing Regnery Press and being publicized by the conservative
magazine Human Events, which shares office space with Regnery. The PR
firm handling the projects is Creative Response Concepts run by former
Pat Buchanan communications director Greg Mueller with the help of former
Pat Robertson communications director, Mike Russell.
The co-author of the book is John O'Neill who has been debating John
Kerry since the 1970s. In fact, it was the Nixon White House, not the
Bush one, which was obsessed with Kerry's Vietnam service and anti-war
history. Nixon himself spent an hour with O'Neill before he debated Kerry
on the ***** Cavitt Show in 1971 and the current Swift Boat Vets saga has
a rather Nixonian cast. Former Nixon aide Pat Buchanan has been out
defending the project and pushing the book."
The truth is coming out about botox.
Haha, moron.
Go make faces in the mirror.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 05:38:48 PM |
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On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:34:04 GMT, "Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c5jih0520jp0jdrs68omh1b6v2delt4h20@4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:38:41 GMT, "Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com>
wrote:
"The group has been heavily funded by Houston conservative Bob Perry, who
has given over $5 million to Republicans in the past few years. Along
with the ad, there is a book "Unfit for Command" which is being published
by right-wing Regnery Press and being publicized by the conservative
magazine Human Events, which shares office space with Regnery. The PR
firm handling the projects is Creative Response Concepts run by former
Pat Buchanan communications director Greg Mueller with the help of former
Pat Robertson communications director, Mike Russell.
The co-author of the book is John O'Neill who has been debating John
Kerry since the 1970s. In fact, it was the Nixon White House, not the
Bush one, which was obsessed with Kerry's Vietnam service and anti-war
history. Nixon himself spent an hour with O'Neill before he debated Kerry
on the ***** Cavitt Show in 1971 and the current Swift Boat Vets saga has
a rather Nixonian cast. Former Nixon aide Pat Buchanan has been out
defending the project and pushing the book."
The truth is coming out about botox.
Haha, moron.
Go make faces in the mirror.
The truth is coming out about botox. You didn't think he could hide forever from his real
record, did you?
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| User: "Drew Nicholson" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
11 Aug 2004 07:40:13 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:cu7lh0dm6lkfr4lokdaftgrracu1512jqp@4ax.com...
The truth is coming out about botox. You didn't think he could hide
forever from his real
record, did you?
Why on earth would he want to hide from his real record? His real record is
one of fighting for america, then fighting for americans.
BushCo cannot say the same.
--
Drew
----
We have an appointment with life in the present moment. If we miss the
present moment, we miss our appointment with life." - Thich Nhat Hanh
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 05:33:41 PM |
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On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:40:13 -0500, "Drew Nicholson" <anicholson16@comcast.net> wrote:
Why on earth would he want to hide from his real record? His real record is
one of fighting for america, then fighting for americans.
Because it isn't, and his fellow soldiers are saying as much.
BushCo cannot say the same.
President George Bush has no need for acting like a wooden nickel hero like botox.
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 05:41:58 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:rvrnh0168oli5pvm1s03o96cots401gft7@4ax.com...
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:40:13 -0500, "Drew Nicholson"
<anicholson16@comcast.net> wrote:
Why on earth would he want to hide from his real record? His real record
is
one of fighting for america, then fighting for americans.
Because it isn't, and his fellow soldiers are saying as much.
You yellow piece of *****.
The men in his boat stand behind. The scumbags who are saying this garbage
weren't on his boat, and one has already retracted.
Who would stand up for you, you yellow piece of *****.
Here are the 10 crewmates who served with Kerry in Vietnam. All but Steve
Gardner support John Kerry and stood with him as he made his speech to the
DNC. (except Tom Belodeau who is deceased .
I'll let them speak for themselves, including Steve Gardner. The following
are sourced quotes.
PCF-94
Starting in late January 1969, this crew completed 18 missions over an
intense and dangerous 48 days, almost all of them in the dense jungles of
the Mekong Delta. The most intense action came during an extraordinary eight
days of more than 10 firefights, remembered by Kerry's crew as the "days of
hell."
David Alston
Rev. Alston is from Columbia, SC and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a
Gunners Mate on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.
"David Alston was the gunner atop Kerry's pilot house. Kerry, he told an
audience here, was a compassionate commander. `We were in a lot of
firefights,' Alston said. `You learn a lot about people. After a firefight,
John would come up to me and he would put his hand on me and he'd say,
'David, are you all right?' `I didn't know then that I had a man of God on
my boat,' Kerry said. `That's probably why I'm here today'." [Orlando
Sentinel, 1/31/04]
`Down in the Mekong Delta, we lived together, we fought together, we bled
together and we survived together,' said Alston. `Whether we were Democratic
or Republican was not the issue,' he said. `The issues at that time were
trust, courage, judgment and character.' Alston attached those attributes to
Kerry and introduced his friend with no further ceremony." [Providence
Journal-Bulletin, 3/23/03]
Alston is the crewmate who gave a speech at the DNC last week. The text is
here
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/
Del Sandusky
Mr. Sandusky is from Dunedin, FL and served in Vietnam in the Navy as the
senior enlisted man on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.
"Kerry commanded a Navy `Swift Boat' that patrolled the Mekong delta. His
crew recalls Kerry as brainy and extremely aggressive, `a good leader and a
bit of a hard-charger,' says Del Sandusky from Elgin, Ill." [Washington
Post, 6/2/02]
"Del Sandusky, 58, of Elgin, Ill., and Clearwater, Fla., served under Kerry
on a patrol boat in 1969. When another boat hit a mine, Kerry ordered the
dead and injured brought on board and the sinking boat towed, six or seven
miles, to the Gulf of Tonkin. Because Americans had died on the boat, Kerry,
out of loyalty, wouldn't leave it behind for the enemy. `All the boat crew
men volunteered to help in anyway we can,' with Kerry's political campaigns,
Sandusky said. `Whatever he wants, we'll help him with. Because we believe
in him.' " [AP, 12/6/02]
Fred Short
Mr. Short is from North Little Rock, AR and served in Vietnam in the Navy as
a Gunners Mate on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.
"In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And
I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you
might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know,
I've seen it.
"If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he
won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation.
My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man
save my life."3
3La Ganga, Maria L. "Crewmates Attest to Kerry's Mettle as Wartime
Commander." Los Angeles Times. 29 July 2004 (p. A13). Zoroya, Greg. "Vietnam
Crewmates Steady at Kerry's Side." USA Today. 29 July 2004 (p. A4).
Gene Thorson
Mr. Thorson is from Ames, Iowa and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a
Engineman on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.
In support of this grassroots deployment, 73,000 Iowa veteran households
received a mailing in December from Kerry's Vietnam swift boat crewmate Gene
Thorsen, of Ames, IA, rallying them to "stand up for John Kerry the same way
he stands up for veterans."
He said he knew back then that the skipper of his boat, John Kerry, was
bound for high places. Almost 30 years later, Thorson got a call from Kerry
asking for political help. Now, he often gives up his weekends to travel
with other veterans and campaign with Kerry on his run for president.
By: Matt Neznanski, Staff Writer July 19, 2004
Ames Tribune
"He took care of all of us. He really did," Thorson said.
Des Moines Register
Tom Belodeau is deceased, he served on PCF-94 with Kerry
Kerry was helped by the fact that Belodeau stood beside him and said he had
been misquoted."This man was not lying on the ground. This man was more than
capable of destroying that boat and everybody on it. Senator Kerry did not
give him that opportunity," Belodeau said. He also said that he was not sure
whether or not he had hit the attacker.
May 06, 2004 National Review Online
Mike Medeiros
Mr. Medeiros is from San Leandros, California and served in Vietnam in the
Navy on PCF-94 with Senator Kerry.
"He made good decisions, I believe proper decisions," said Mike Medeiros of
San Leandro, Calif., who served for four months on Kerry's swift boat in
Vietnam. "And the fact that we all returned alive is a good indication that
they were the right decisions."Medeiros was reunited with Kerry in 1996,
when Republicans were attacking his military record in a heated Senate race.
Kerry's crew mates came to set the record straight at the Charlestown Navy
Yard, the same place they stood shoulder-to-shoulder on the eve of his
nomination acceptance.
ABCNEWS.com July 28, 2004 From AP
PFC-44
Kerry captained this ship from November 1968 to January 1969. This command
saw considerably less action
Jim Wasser
Mr. Wasser is from St. Anne, IL and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a
Radarman on PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.
Mr. Kerry took command of P.C.F.-44 with a veteran crew headed by Mr.
Wasser, a radarman second class. "Always, when there's a new guy on the
boat, you check him out," Mr. Wasser said. "It only took me a few days. We
knew that we had somebody special that cared for us. We bonded."
Combative and politically conservative, Mr. Wasser, from Kankakee, Ill., had
a pair of American flags tattooed on his shoulder and still loathes Jane
Fonda.
NYTimes Febuary 24 2004
What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and
leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a
guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the
consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."
2. Braun, Stephen. "Kerry's War Tour Serves as Theme, Target." Los Angeles
Times. 29 July 2004 (p. A13). Brinkley, Douglas. Tour of Duty: John Kerry
and the Vietnam War. New York: HarperCollins, 2004. ISBN 0-06-056523-3.
Klein, Joe. "The Long War of John Kerry." The New Yorker. 2 December 2002.
Kranish, Michael. "John F. Kerry: Candidate in the Making -- Part 2:
Heroism, and Growing Concern About War." The Boston Globe. 16 June 2003.
Drew Whitlow
Mr. Whitlow is from Huntsville, AR and served in Vietnam in the Navy as a
Boatswain Mate on PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.
"I figured with the abilities he had, he was going to go high, but I didn't
have any idea about him running for president," said Whitlow, 57, wearing a
cap decorated with Kerry campaign pins.
Whitlow said he recalled Kerry as a humble seaman when he joined Whitlow's
crew as a lieutenant junior grade in 1968.
Kerry told crewmates, "I know you guys don't need me but I sure need you,"
said Whitlow, who served as a boatswain mate.
"He accepted us for who we were," Whitlow said. "The decisions that he made
saved our lives.
"He never shot from the hip when it came to decisions," Whitlow said. "He'd
always confront the problems head on."
Whitlow, a Kerry campaign coordinator for veterans in western and southern
Arkansas, began campaigning for Kerry in September 2003. In January, Whitlow
traveled with Kerry to Iowa and New Hampshire.
The Times Record Fort Smith, Arkansas Thursday, July 29, 2004
Bill Zaladonis
Mr. Zaladonis is from Sanford, FL and served in Vietnam in the Navy on
PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.
"I never saw John back down from anything," crewmember Bill Zaladonis says
April 13, 2004 USA Today
Steve Hatch
Mr. Hatch served in Vietnam in the Navy on PCF-44 with Senator Kerry.
Stephen W. Hatch of Altoona, Pa., with four tattoos, who says he supports
Mr. Kerry though he wants no part of politics.
NYTimes Febuary 24 2004
"He wouldn't let you go randomly down the river shooting up everything in
sight," says Stephen Hatch, who served on the first of Kerry's two boats.
April 13, 2004 USA Today
Stephen M. Gardner
Served in Vietnam in the Navy on PCF-44 with Senator John Kerry
"Kerry was chickenshit," he insists. "Whenever a firefight started he always
pulled up stakes and got the hell out of Dodge."
"I was driving down the road, and I hit that [radio] button and Rush was
talking about Kerry and his campaign and how something just didn't feel
right to him," Gardner recalled, his voice full of conviction. "Something
about what John Kerry did or was doing, just really didn't set right with
him. And you know I served with this guy, and the bottom line to it is;
harsh as this may sound or as good as it sounds to any Democrat, out there,
John Kerry is another `Slick Willy.' He's another Bill Clinton and that's
exactly what he is. And I'm telling you right now, that if John Kerry gets
to be president of these United States, it'll be a sorry day in this world
for us. We can't stand another Democrat like that in there again. We'll get
our asses in such a sling this time; we won't be able to get out of it. And
the bottom line to it is, I don't care how much John Kerry's changed after
he moved off my boat, his initial patterns of behavior when I met him and
served under him was somebody who ran from the enemy, rather than engaged
it. If I'd had Rush's 800 number, or known how to reach him, I would have
called in."
"I've told a few of my friends that he was an *****," Gardner says. "But
I'm not looking to make news."
"Kerry sat some of them down and convinced them to buy into his side of what
happened over there,"
"When you're as persuasive as Kerry it's not hard to make a guy change
something that he saw."
A recent interview with Gardner is at the Time link. The interview explains
why he haven't been heard of until recently. All of the Gardner quotes are
here and more.
The author of the Time article states that he believes Gardner's motives are
political, and after reading what he had to say I'm inclined to agree.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,599034,00.html
Jim Rassmann was not a crewmate but I think belongs here.
Jim Rassmann
Mr. Rassmann is from Florence, OR and served in Vietnam as a Special Forces
Officer in the Army.
He clung to the net as bullets whizzed past. `Next thing I knew, John came
out in the middle of all this,' Rassmann says. `I couldn't believe it. He
was going to get killed. He ran to the edge, reached over with his good arm
[Kerry had been wounded in his right arm] and pulled me over the lip.'
Rassmann later recommended Kerry for the Silver Star, and was upset when the
Army instead awarded Kerry a lesser Bronze Star with a `V' for valor." [Los
Angeles Times, 3/13/04]
Under [Navy Admiral Elmo] Zumwalt's command, swift boats would aggressively
engage the enemy. Zumwalt, who died in 2000, calculated in his autobiography
that these men under his command had a 75 percent chance of being killed or
wounded during a typical year.
Here is Kerry's request to go to Vietnam
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Request_For_Swiftboat_Duty.pdf
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| User: "Fred J. McCall" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
12 Aug 2004 10:50:21 PM |
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"Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
:The men in his boat stand behind. The scumbags who are saying this garbage
:weren't on his boat, and one has already retracted.
:Who would stand up for you, you yellow piece of *****.
And all of them who were willing to discuss the issue asserted that
the boat was NEVER in Cambodia, or even close to it.
--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
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| User: "Bill Case" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 10:19:53 AM |
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"Fred J. McCall" <fmccall@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5ieoh0prq1k0h26gfvvsr73f7ih17t4jls@4ax.com...
"Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
:The men in his boat stand behind. The scumbags who are saying this
garbage
:weren't on his boat, and one has already retracted.
:Who would stand up for you, you yellow piece of *****.
And all of them who were willing to discuss the issue asserted that
the boat was NEVER in Cambodia, or even close to it.
1) This is an invented issue, what difference does it make? The waterways in
the Mekong area are so branching and complicated they could have been and
not known it, or vice versa.
2) Around that time, a US riverboat was seized by the Cambodians and the
held for some time - would you dispute that they weren't in Cambodia either?
3) Enlisted men often aren't given much info on their location, and usually
they don't care anyway, they have other concerns and expect the officers to
handle the map stuff.
--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
13 Aug 2004 04:14:16 PM |
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On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:41:58 GMT, "Bill Case" <Billc548@Hotmail.com> wrote:
Why on earth would he want to hide from his real record? His real record
is
one of fighting for america, then fighting for americans.
Because it isn't, and his fellow soldiers are saying as much.
You yellow piece of *****.
The men in his boat stand behind. The scumbags who are saying this garbage
weren't on his boat, and one has already retracted.
Who would stand up for you, you yellow piece of *****.
The men in his boat were ducking the wmd's he got them into. They were too busy to see
him turning green.
The truth is finally coming out about botox.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Swift Boat Liars Group - right wing scumbags |
10 Aug 2004 06:48:41 PM |
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In our last thrilling episode, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> was pushed
over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:31:43 -0500 by
Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
The truth is coming out about botox.
John 18:38
Pilate *said to Him, "What is truth?" And when he had said this, he
went out again to the Jews and *said to them, "I find no guilt in Him.
Hmmm... Jesus was opposed by a group of fanatics who told lies about
him.
Might we actually *learn* from this story?
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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