| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"james g. keegan jr." |
| Date: |
21 Feb 2005 01:14:14 PM |
| Object: |
swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
A New Target for Advisers to Swift Vets
By Glen Justice
The New York Times
Monday 21 February 2005
Washington - Taking its cues from the success of last year's Swift
boat veterans' campaign in the presidential race, a conservative
lobbying organization has hired some of the same consultants to
orchestrate attacks on one of President Bush's toughest opponents in
the battle to overhaul Social Security.
The lobbying group, USA Next, which has poured millions of dollars
into Republican policy battles, now says it plans to spend as much as
$10 million on commercials and other tactics assailing AARP, the
powerhouse lobby opposing the private investment accounts at the center
of Mr. Bush's plan.
"They are the boulder in the middle of the highway to personal
savings accounts," said Charlie Jarvis, president of USA Next and
former deputy under secretary of the interior in the Reagan and first
Bush administrations. "We will be the dynamite that removes them."
Though it is not clear how much money USA Next has in hand for the
campaign - Mr. Jarvis will not say, and the group, which claims 1.5
million members, does not have to disclose its donors - officials say
that the group's annual budget was more than $28 million last year. The
group, a membership organization with no age requirements for joining,
has also spent millions in recent years vigorously supporting Bush
proposals on tax cuts, energy and the Medicare prescription drug plan.
So far, the groups dueling over Social Security have been
relatively tame, but the plans by USA Next foreshadow what could be a
steep escalation in the war to sway public opinion and members of
Congress in the days ahead.
Already, AARP is holding dozens of forums on the issue, has sent
mailings to its 35 million members and has spent roughly $5 million on
print advertisements in major newspapers opposing private accounts. "If
we feel like gambling," some advertisements said, "we'll play the
slots."
AARP is spending another $5 million on a new print advertising
campaign beginning this week.
To help set USA Next's strategy, the group has hired Chris
LaCivita, an enthusiastic former marine who advised Swift Vets and
P.O.W.'s for Truth, formerly known as Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, on
its media campaign and helped write its potent commercials. He earned
more than $30,000 for his work, campaign finance filings show.
Officials said the group is also seeking to hire Rick Reed, a
partner at Stevens Reed Curcio & Potholm, a firm that was hired by
Swift Vets and was paid more than $276,000 to do media production,
records show.
For public relations, USA Next has turned to Creative Response
Concepts, a Virginia firm that represented both Swift Vets - the
company was paid more than $165,000 - and Regnery Publishing, the
publisher of "Unfit for Command," a book about Senator John Kerry's
military service whose co-author was John E. O'Neill, one of the
primary leaders of Swift Vets.
Swift Vets captured headlines for weeks in last year's presidential
race, when it spent millions of dollars on incendiary commercials
attacking Senator Kerry's war record. Because federal law prohibits
outside groups from coordinating with presidential campaigns during
elections, the organization came under fire when it was revealed that a
lawyer for Mr. Bush's campaign was also advising Swift Vets.
Mr. Bush criticized groups like Swift Vets last year, and his
campaign kept its distance from the groups' attacks on Mr. Kerry. In
policy battles like the one looming over Social Security, though, there
is no prohibition against coordination. Several huge business lobbies,
like the Business Roundtable, have become closely linked to Mr. Bush's
plans for Social Security and have assembled coalitions to promote the
proposals across the country.
In the case of USA Next, the group and the White House say they are
not working together. Trent Duffy, a White House spokesman, said the
administration was familiar with the group and has interacted with it
on issues in the past, but said that it had no input on its current
efforts. USA Next says it has taken pains to disassociate itself from
the administration, even declining to join the large lobbying
coalitions the White House is working with to pass Social Security
legislation
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/022105G.shtml
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:46:10 PM |
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Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns960494F97457FVeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:Xns96049E24EC52Fkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan
jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns960493A03670CVeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
Tell me where it says "swift boat vets to attack senior citizens
next", OK?
not only did you fail to read the article referenced but also the
subject line of the post to which you are responding.
Are you telling me that the subject line of your initiaial post in
this thread was not "Subject: swift boat vets to attack senior
citizens next"?
nice strawman.
have you read the subject line of the thread to which you are posting?
.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:53:52 PM |
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In news:Xns9604A06AFDE8Fkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan jr."
<keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns960494F97457FVeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:Xns96049E24EC52Fkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan
jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns960493A03670CVeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
Tell me where it says "swift boat vets to attack senior citizens
next", OK?
not only did you fail to read the article referenced but also the
subject line of the post to which you are responding.
Are you telling me that the subject line of your initiaial post in
this thread was not "Subject: swift boat vets to attack senior
citizens next"?
nice strawman.
have you read the subject line of the thread to which you are posting?
Yes; since it's your thread, you should know what it says. If not, here it
is:
"Subject: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next"
Clear enough?
Now show me that "USA Next" is really "Swift Boat Vets".
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 03:02:59 PM |
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Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns960497B122199VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:Xns9604A06AFDE8Fkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan
jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
have you read the subject line of the thread to which you are
posting?
Yes;
good.
then you should apologize for having asked several people what the subject
line said.
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 03:02:25 PM |
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In article <Xns960497B122199VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com>, Bert
Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:Xns9604A06AFDE8Fkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan jr."
<keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns960494F97457FVeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:Xns96049E24EC52Fkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan
jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns960493A03670CVeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
Tell me where it says "swift boat vets to attack senior citizens
next", OK?
not only did you fail to read the article referenced but also the
subject line of the post to which you are responding.
Are you telling me that the subject line of your initiaial post in
this thread was not "Subject: swift boat vets to attack senior
citizens next"?
nice strawman.
have you read the subject line of the thread to which you are posting?
Yes; since it's your thread, you should know what it says. If not, here it
is:
"Subject: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next"
Clear enough?
Now show me that "USA Next" is really "Swift Boat Vets".
So how do you feel the subject line should have read? (Since that
seems to be your focus.)
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 01:34:55 PM |
|
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Bert Hyman wrote:
In news:1109013254.067711.119770@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com "james
g.
keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
A New Target for Advisers to Swift Vets
Did you read the article?
How does it in any way support the assertion you made in your
"Subject:"
line?
for you to understand that, bert, you'd need to read the article.
i noticed you deleted both the article and the reference to it too. you
must be worried that others will read it too.
here, i'll replace both of them for you.
--begin replacement
A New Target for Advisers to Swift Vets
By Glen Justice
The New York Times
Monday 21 February 2005
Washington - Taking its cues from the success of last year's Swift
boat veterans' campaign in the presidential race, a conservative
lobbying organization has hired some of the same consultants to
orchestrate attacks on one of President Bush's toughest opponents in
the battle to overhaul Social Security.
The lobbying group, USA Next, which has poured millions of dollars
into Republican policy battles, now says it plans to spend as much as
$10 million on commercials and other tactics assailing AARP, the
powerhouse lobby opposing the private investment accounts at the center
of Mr. Bush's plan.
"They are the boulder in the middle of the highway to personal
savings accounts," said Charlie Jarvis, president of USA Next and
former deputy under secretary of the interior in the Reagan and first
Bush administrations. "We will be the dynamite that removes them."
Though it is not clear how much money USA Next has in hand for the
campaign - Mr. Jarvis will not say, and the group, which claims 1.5
million members, does not have to disclose its donors - officials say
that the group's annual budget was more than $28 million last year. The
group, a membership organization with no age requirements for joining,
has also spent millions in recent years vigorously supporting Bush
proposals on tax cuts, energy and the Medicare prescription drug plan.
So far, the groups dueling over Social Security have been
relatively tame, but the plans by USA Next foreshadow what could be a
steep escalation in the war to sway public opinion and members of
Congress in the days ahead.
Already, AARP is holding dozens of forums on the issue, has sent
mailings to its 35 million members and has spent roughly $5 million on
print advertisements in major newspapers opposing private accounts. "If
we feel like gambling," some advertisements said, "we'll play the
slots."
AARP is spending another $5 million on a new print advertising
campaign beginning this week.
To help set USA Next's strategy, the group has hired Chris
LaCivita, an enthusiastic former marine who advised Swift Vets and
P.O.W.'s for Truth, formerly known as Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, on
its media campaign and helped write its potent commercials. He earned
more than $30,000 for his work, campaign finance filings show.
Officials said the group is also seeking to hire Rick Reed, a
partner at Stevens Reed Curcio & Potholm, a firm that was hired by
Swift Vets and was paid more than $276,000 to do media production,
records show.
For public relations, USA Next has turned to Creative Response
Concepts, a Virginia firm that represented both Swift Vets - the
company was paid more than $165,000 - and Regnery Publishing, the
publisher of "Unfit for Command," a book about Senator John Kerry's
military service whose co-author was John E. O'Neill, one of the
primary leaders of Swift Vets.
Swift Vets captured headlines for weeks in last year's presidential
race, when it spent millions of dollars on incendiary commercials
attacking Senator Kerry's war record. Because federal law prohibits
outside groups from coordinating with presidential campaigns during
elections, the organization came under fire when it was revealed that a
lawyer for Mr. Bush's campaign was also advising Swift Vets.
Mr. Bush criticized groups like Swift Vets last year, and his
campaign kept its distance from the groups' attacks on Mr. Kerry. In
policy battles like the one looming over Social Security, though, there
is no prohibition against coordination. Several huge business lobbies,
like the Business Roundtable, have become closely linked to Mr. Bush's
plans for Social Security and have assembled coalitions to promote the
proposals across the country.
In the case of USA Next, the group and the White House say they are
not working together. Trent Duffy, a White House spokesman, said the
administration was familiar with the group and has interacted with it
on issues in the past, but said that it had no input on its current
efforts. USA Next says it has taken pains to disassociate itself from
the administration, even declining to join the large lobbying
coalitions the White House is working with to pass Social Security
legislation
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/022105G.shtml
--end replacement
.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 01:53:18 PM |
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In news:1109014495.362803.288990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com "james g.
keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman wrote:
In news:1109013254.067711.119770@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com "james
g.
keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
A New Target for Advisers to Swift Vets
Did you read the article?
How does it in any way support the assertion you made in your
"Subject:"
line?
for you to understand that, bert, you'd need to read the article.
Oh, I read it. I'll even credit you with having read it, but not with
understanding it.
Your position appears to be that because "USA Next" and the "Swift Boat
Veterans" hired the same PR firms and advisors, that "USA Next" has
somehow become the "Swift Boat Veterans", and also that by attacking the
AARP, they're somehow attacking "senior citizens".
Neither conclusion is supported by the article you post, nor are they
supported by reality.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 01:58:55 PM |
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Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns96048D6C278C2VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:1109014495.362803.288990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com "james g.
keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman wrote:
Your position appears to be that because "USA Next" and the "Swift Boat
Veterans" hired the same PR firms and advisors, that "USA Next" has
somehow become the "Swift Boat Veterans", and also that by attacking the
AARP, they're somehow attacking "senior citizens".
gee bert, if you are going to misrepresent my position, would you try to
have it slightly resemble reality. as david barnes said to you "I believe
that wasn't his point. He was trying to make the point that
Republicans are hiring the same hacks to lie, distort, and twist the
position of seniors as they did to lie, distort, and twist the position
of Kerry."
i credited you with understanding that even if you were compelled to
distort it.
.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:14:48 PM |
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In news:Xns96049867DA481keegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan jr."
<keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns96048D6C278C2VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:1109014495.362803.288990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com "james g.
keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman wrote:
Your position appears to be that because "USA Next" and the "Swift Boat
Veterans" hired the same PR firms and advisors, that "USA Next" has
somehow become the "Swift Boat Veterans", and also that by attacking
the AARP, they're somehow attacking "senior citizens".
gee bert, if you are going to misrepresent my position, would you try to
have it slightly resemble reality.
How am I misrepresenting your position, which you clearly stated
in the Subject of your post: "swift boat vets to attack senior citizens
next"?
How exactly does your article support your assertion that "swift boat
vets" are preparing to attack "senior citizens"?
If that's not what you meant, why did you write it?
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:21:00 PM |
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Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns960491112E30VeebleFetzer@news.octanews.com:
In news:Xns96049867DA481keegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan
jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns96048D6C278C2VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:1109014495.362803.288990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com "james
g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman wrote:
Your position appears to be that because "USA Next" and the "Swift
Boat Veterans" hired the same PR firms and advisors, that "USA Next"
has somehow become the "Swift Boat Veterans", and also that by
attacking the AARP, they're somehow attacking "senior citizens".
gee bert, if you are going to misrepresent my position, would you try
to have it slightly resemble reality.
How am I misrepresenting your position, which you clearly stated
in the Subject of your post: "swift boat vets to attack senior
citizens next"?
you can't scramble away from your won words, bert. they are still
included.
How exactly does your article support your assertion that "swift boat
vets" are preparing to attack "senior citizens"?
when you asked me that the first time, i said to you "for you to
understand that, bert, you'd need to read the article." so, bert, for you
to understand that, bert, you'd need to read the article.
.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 01:38:39 PM |
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In news:1109014495.362803.288990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com "james g.
keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
i noticed you deleted both the article and the reference to it too. you
must be worried that others will read it too.
You really ought to have somebody explain to you how this USENET stuff
works.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 01:48:54 PM |
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Bert Hyman wrote:
In news:1109014495.362803.288990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com "james
g.
keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
i noticed you deleted both the article and the
reference to it too. you must be worried that
others will read it too.
You really ought to have somebody explain to you how
this USENET stuff works.
that article and reference must REALLY frighten you, bert. i notice
that you deleted both the article and the link to it a second time.
hell bert, the swift boat cowards made a lot of money trying to slander
a war hero. why shouldn't they make more money stealing from old folks?
they're the kind of guys you can relate to, right?
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 01:40:55 PM |
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In article <Xns96048AF051DF2VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com>, Bert
Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:1109014495.362803.288990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com "james g.
keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
i noticed you deleted both the article and the reference to it too. you
must be worried that others will read it too.
You really ought to have somebody explain to you how this USENET stuff
works.
It is you who seems lost.
.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 01:44:31 PM |
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In news:210220051140554488%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com>
wrote:
In article <Xns96048AF051DF2VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com>, Bert
Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:1109014495.362803.288990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com "james g.
keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
i noticed you deleted both the article and the reference to it too.
you must be worried that others will read it too.
You really ought to have somebody explain to you how this USENET stuff
works.
It is you who seems lost.
How so? It appears that Mr. Keegan here believes that because I didn't
include the full text of his post in my followup, I have somehow "deleted"
it.
Is that what you believe too?
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 01:50:26 PM |
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In article <Xns96048BEF05605VeebleFetzer@news.octanews.com>, Bert Hyman
<bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:210220051140554488%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com>
wrote:
In article <Xns96048AF051DF2VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com>, Bert
Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:1109014495.362803.288990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com "james g.
keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
i noticed you deleted both the article and the reference to it too.
you must be worried that others will read it too.
You really ought to have somebody explain to you how this USENET stuff
works.
It is you who seems lost.
How so? It appears that Mr. Keegan here believes that because I didn't
include the full text of his post in my followup, I have somehow "deleted"
it.
Is that what you believe too?
I believe that wasn't his point. He was trying to make the point that
Republicans are hiring the same hacks to lie, distort, and twist the
position of seniors as they did to lie, distort, and twist the position
of Kerry.
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 01:51:50 PM |
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"David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com> wrote in
news:210220051150266419%spam@aol.com:
In article <Xns96048BEF05605VeebleFetzer@news.octanews.com>, Bert
Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:210220051140554488%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes"
<spam@aol.com> wrote:
In article <Xns96048AF051DF2VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com>, Bert
Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:1109014495.362803.288990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
"james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
i noticed you deleted both the article and the reference to it
too. you must be worried that others will read it too.
You really ought to have somebody explain to you how this USENET
stuff works.
It is you who seems lost.
How so? It appears that Mr. Keegan here believes that because I
didn't include the full text of his post in my followup, I have
somehow "deleted" it.
Is that what you believe too?
I believe that wasn't his point. He was trying to make the point that
Republicans are hiring the same hacks to lie, distort, and twist the
position of seniors as they did to lie, distort, and twist the
position of Kerry.
oh bert knows that. he was doing what all crazed neocons do: distort the
truth.
.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 01:56:12 PM |
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In news:210220051150266419%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com>
wrote:
In article <Xns96048BEF05605VeebleFetzer@news.octanews.com>, Bert Hyman
<bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:210220051140554488%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes"
<spam@aol.com> wrote:
In article <Xns96048AF051DF2VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com>, Bert
Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:1109014495.362803.288990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com "james
g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote:
i noticed you deleted both the article and the reference to it
too. you must be worried that others will read it too.
You really ought to have somebody explain to you how this USENET
stuff works.
It is you who seems lost.
How so? It appears that Mr. Keegan here believes that because I didn't
include the full text of his post in my followup, I have somehow
"deleted" it.
Is that what you believe too?
I believe that wasn't his point. He was trying to make the point that
Republicans are hiring the same hacks to lie, distort, and twist the
position of seniors as they did to lie, distort, and twist the position
of Kerry.
If that was the point he was trying to make, why then was the subject of
his post "swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next"?
The organization "USA Next" is NOT the "Swift Boat Vets", nor is the AARP
"senior citizens".
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:01:13 PM |
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|
In article <Xns96048DEA16533VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com>, Bert
Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
i noticed you deleted both the article and the reference to it
too. you must be worried that others will read it too.
You really ought to have somebody explain to you how this USENET
stuff works.
It is you who seems lost.
How so? It appears that Mr. Keegan here believes that because I didn't
include the full text of his post in my followup, I have somehow
"deleted" it.
Is that what you believe too?
I believe that wasn't his point. He was trying to make the point that
Republicans are hiring the same hacks to lie, distort, and twist the
position of seniors as they did to lie, distort, and twist the position
of Kerry.
If that was the point he was trying to make, why then was the subject of
his post "swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next"?
The organization "USA Next" is NOT the "Swift Boat Vets", nor is the AARP
"senior citizens".
Who do you think AARP is? The "Aryan Arm of the Republican Party?"
And no one said USA Next was the Swift Boat Vets.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:05:15 PM |
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In news:210220051201135269%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com>
wrote:
In article <Xns96048DEA16533VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com>, Bert
Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
i noticed you deleted both the article and the reference to it
too. you must be worried that others will read it too.
You really ought to have somebody explain to you how this USENET
stuff works.
It is you who seems lost.
How so? It appears that Mr. Keegan here believes that because I
didn't include the full text of his post in my followup, I have
somehow "deleted" it.
Is that what you believe too?
I believe that wasn't his point. He was trying to make the point
that Republicans are hiring the same hacks to lie, distort, and twist
the position of seniors as they did to lie, distort, and twist the
position of Kerry.
If that was the point he was trying to make, why then was the subject
of his post "swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next"?
The organization "USA Next" is NOT the "Swift Boat Vets", nor is the
AARP "senior citizens".
Who do you think AARP is? The "Aryan Arm of the Republican Party?"
The AARP is a corporation which makes big bucks selling insurance to
middle-aged and older Americans.
And no one said USA Next was the Swift Boat Vets.
Keegan did; it's right up there in the Subject: line of his post and of
this thread.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:13:18 PM |
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Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns96048F7281059VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:210220051201135269%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes" <spam@aol.com>
And no one said USA Next was the Swift Boat Vets.
Keegan did; it's right up there in the Subject: line of his post and of
this thread.
bert, bert, no one will believe anything you post if you continue to
distort.
hey, have you frequented any of bush's gay male white house "press corps"
extablishments?
and here i thought neocons opposed gay relationships too.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:18:17 PM |
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In news:Xns96049AD88166Ekeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan jr."
<keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns96048F7281059VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:210220051201135269%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes"
<spam@aol.com>
And no one said USA Next was the Swift Boat Vets.
Keegan did; it's right up there in the Subject: line of his post and of
this thread.
bert, bert, no one will believe anything you post if you continue to
distort.
So, the subject line of your article doesn't say "swift boat vets to
attack senior citizens next"?
Really?
What's it actually say?
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:21:47 PM |
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Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns960491A854253VeebleFetzer@news.octanews.com:
In news:Xns96049AD88166Ekeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan
jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns96048F7281059VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:210220051201135269%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes"
<spam@aol.com>
And no one said USA Next was the Swift Boat Vets.
Keegan did; it's right up there in the Subject: line of his post and
of this thread.
bert, bert, no one will believe anything you post if you continue to
distort.
So, the subject line of your article doesn't say "swift boat vets to
attack senior citizens next"?
how do you read the subject line bert?
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:22:52 PM |
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In news:Xns96049C4817FCFkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan jr."
<keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
how do you read the subject line bert?
Just fine.
And you?
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:25:10 PM |
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Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns9604926F374DBVeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:Xns96049C4817FCFkeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan
jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
how do you read the subject line bert?
Just fine.
i can see why you deleted the text preceeding my question. even you were
embarassed at your behavior, i take it.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:28:09 PM |
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On 21 Feb 2005 20:18:17 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:Xns96049AD88166Ekeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan jr."
<keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns96048F7281059VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:210220051201135269%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes"
<spam@aol.com>
And no one said USA Next was the Swift Boat Vets.
Keegan did; it's right up there in the Subject: line of his post and of
this thread.
bert, bert, no one will believe anything you post if you continue to
distort.
So, the subject line of your article doesn't say "swift boat vets to
attack senior citizens next"?
Really?
What's it actually say?
It's the same backing, the same group, with the same goal: to slander
everyone taking a stand against the American fascists.
Read the article. It explains it clearly enough that even you should
understand.
Hal
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:47:07 PM |
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wrote in news:21hk119s7e6i0jjc0d5ubc3rdoiblo92g8@4ax.com:
On 21 Feb 2005 20:18:17 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:Xns96049AD88166Ekeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan
jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns96048F7281059VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:210220051201135269%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes"
<spam@aol.com>
And no one said USA Next was the Swift Boat Vets.
Keegan did; it's right up there in the Subject: line of his post
and of this thread.
bert, bert, no one will believe anything you post if you continue to
distort.
So, the subject line of your article doesn't say "swift boat vets to
attack senior citizens next"?
Really?
What's it actually say?
It's the same backing, the same group, with the same goal: to slander
everyone taking a stand against the American fascists.
Read the article. It explains it clearly enough that even you should
understand.
bert understands it. he is simply doing his job to distort what it says.
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| User: "David W. Barnes" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 03:02:24 PM |
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In article <21hk119s7e6i0jjc0d5ubc3rdoiblo92g8@4ax.com>,
<hal@nospam.com> wrote:
On 21 Feb 2005 20:18:17 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:Xns96049AD88166Ekeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan jr."
<keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns96048F7281059VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:210220051201135269%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes"
<spam@aol.com>
And no one said USA Next was the Swift Boat Vets.
Keegan did; it's right up there in the Subject: line of his post and of
this thread.
bert, bert, no one will believe anything you post if you continue to
distort.
So, the subject line of your article doesn't say "swift boat vets to
attack senior citizens next"?
Really?
What's it actually say?
It's the same backing, the same group, with the same goal: to slander
everyone taking a stand against the American fascists.
Read the article. It explains it clearly enough that even you should
understand.
Hal
Hal: Your comment is right on target. However, since so many Americans
buy into the American fascists tactics, you have to wonder if they
don¹t have their heads in the sand or perhaps they are just full of
hate. I used to respect the opinion of the American people, generally,
but today I have to wonder. How could the goose steppers gain so much
power?
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:52:02 PM |
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In news:21hk119s7e6i0jjc0d5ubc3rdoiblo92g8@4ax.com wrote:
On 21 Feb 2005 20:18:17 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote:
In news:Xns96049AD88166Ekeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan
jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns96048F7281059VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:210220051201135269%spam@aol.com "David W. Barnes"
<spam@aol.com>
And no one said USA Next was the Swift Boat Vets.
Keegan did; it's right up there in the Subject: line of his post and
of this thread.
bert, bert, no one will believe anything you post if you continue to
distort.
So, the subject line of your article doesn't say "swift boat vets to
attack senior citizens next"?
Really?
What's it actually say?
It's the same backing, the same group, with the same goal: to slander
everyone taking a stand against the American fascists.
The same group? You're saying that "USA Next" really is "Swift Boat Vets"?
Same backing? Probably. Same interests? Possibly. Same group? Unlikely.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 03:01:53 PM |
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Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns9604976184FA0VeebleFetzer@news.mpls.visi.com:
In news:21hk119s7e6i0jjc0d5ubc3rdoiblo92g8@4ax.com
wrote:
It's the same backing, the same group, with the same goal: to
slander everyone taking a stand against the American fascists.
The same group? You're saying that "USA Next" really is "Swift Boat
Vets"?
Same backing? Probably. Same interests? Possibly. Same group?
Unlikely.
despite your efforts at distortion, most readers recognize that the same
interests which paid a lot of money to falsely smear kerry and paying more
money now to steal from seniors.
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| User: "Bert Hyman" |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:18:43 PM |
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In news:Xns96049AD88166Ekeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan jr."
<keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
and here i thought neocons opposed gay relationships too.
And you're a gay-basher to boot?
Now, that's interesting.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@visi.com
.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: swift boat vets to attack senior citizens next |
21 Feb 2005 02:22:45 PM |
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Bert Hyman <bert@visi.com> wrote in
news:Xns960491BAFA99VeebleFetzer@news.octanews.com:
In news:Xns96049AD88166Ekeegannycaprrcom@130.133.1.4 "james g. keegan
jr." <keegan@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
and here i thought neocons opposed gay relationships too.
And you're a gay-basher to boot?
goodness, you went from distortion to blatant misrepresentation. you must
be feeling very inadequate.
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